Guild Wars 2

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t see why Anet should spend time or money to scale it. It’s gone in a couple of days.

I’m sure in the future there will be both single and multi player instances.

Vayne, why are you ignoring all the players who point out that the scaling system for personal stry mode is already in place? :‘-( You’re usually so thorough!

The scaling system isn’t in place for everything. That is to say, each thing that scaled needed to be separately calibrated and adjusted. Just because you think there’s one equation for everything. doesn’t mean that’s the case. What does that even mean…that the scaling system in in place.

Have you seen the comments about the scaling system throughout these forums for months on end. Some things aren’t scaled high enough. Some things aren’t scaled for enough people. It’s not a one-sized fits all system, it’s something Anet has had to adjust time and time again (and in some places it’s still not right).

So what we’re saying is, a ten minute instance that’s around for a week should have scaling applied to it, and if they get that scaling wrong, then what? Then you have the groups saying its’ too easy, it’s too hard, it’s too hot, it’s too warm.

When are people going to learn that things like scaling never satisfy everyone and that doing it isn’t just clicking a button.

Vayne.8563:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t see why Anet should spend time or money to scale it. It’s gone in a couple of days.

I’m sure in the future there will be both single and multi player instances.

Vayne, why are you ignoring all the players who point out that the scaling system for personal stry mode is already in place? :‘-( You’re usually so thorough!

The scaling system isn’t in place for everything. That is to say, each thing that scaled needed to be separately calibrated and adjusted. Just because you think there’s one equation for everything. doesn’t mean that’s the case. What does that even mean…that the scaling system in in place.

Have you seen the comments about the scaling system throughout these forums for months on end. Some things aren’t scaled high enough. Some things aren’t scaled for enough people. It’s not a one-sized fits all system, it’s something Anet has had to adjust time and time again (and in some places it’s still not right).

So what we’re saying is, a ten minute instance that’s around for a week should have scaling applied to it, and if they get that scaling wrong, then what? Then you have the groups saying its’ too easy, it’s too hard, it’s too hot, it’s too warm.

When are people going to learn that things like scaling never satisfy everyone and that doing it isn’t just clicking a button.

To be honest, yes it should have scaling applied. I don’t know how their internal setup for scaling looks like, and how easy it is to apply. But neither do you. A discussion based upon assumptions is pointless. So let’s leave it at that.

That being said, this thread, this complaint is just a symptom of the actual problem: The degradation of quality of this game. Each and every update is made rather sloppy, seems to be rushed and needs at least one hotfix. Even the latest “fix” for the meta achievement didn’t work. There is barely anything worth that could be called content other than a few nice design changes for lions arch.

If they would take their time instead of doing shallow monthly updates, we would have more quality content, instances longer than 10 minutes with proper balancing and scaling for solo/multiplay. We would not just have fake content with the sole purpose to provide an environment for selling new skins (that are gated behind ridiculous rng as well). No. It would be real content, perhaps with a proper story. But that won’t happen anytime soon. Not as long as they turn a big enough profit. And as long as they keep doing that, there will be threads like this.

The instance is so short it’s not worth the time to code it to be done by a full party, let alone balance it.

I bet you if they did make it a party instance, people would still complain that it was a pathetic ‘dungeon’ when it’s anything but.

Vayne.8563:

Balancing is hard

Okay, even if that is so, then I’m going to go back to my initial statement and say: they don’t actually need to be balanced. So if you bring more people, the fights will be easier. Here’s why I don’t think that that is a problem at all: these instances aren’t about the fights.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Whether the instances are super short or super easy doesn’t matter. They are not supposed to be a test of skill – they are interactive cinematics that advance the plot.

Then by all means don’t balance them – just let me run through the story instance with a friend, duh.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Vayne.8563:

Balancing is hard

Okay, even if that is so, then I’m going to go back to my initial statement and say: they don’t actually need to be balanced. So if you bring more people, the fights will be easier. Here’s why I don’t think that that is a problem at all: these instances aren’t about the fights.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Whether the instances are super short or super easy doesn’t matter. They are not supposed to be a test of skill – they are interactive cinematics that advance the plot.

Then by all means don’t balance them – just let me run through the story instance with a friend, duh.

So you’re saying if they add it and it’s not balanced, they won’t have complaints on the forums? I mean they have them anyway..but you know..it’s just possible they ran out of time to do that.

But really is this one instance such a big deal?

RoterFuchs.9216:

Vayne.8563:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t see why Anet should spend time or money to scale it. It’s gone in a couple of days.

I’m sure in the future there will be both single and multi player instances.

Vayne, why are you ignoring all the players who point out that the scaling system for personal stry mode is already in place? :‘-( You’re usually so thorough!

The scaling system isn’t in place for everything. That is to say, each thing that scaled needed to be separately calibrated and adjusted. Just because you think there’s one equation for everything. doesn’t mean that’s the case. What does that even mean…that the scaling system in in place.

Have you seen the comments about the scaling system throughout these forums for months on end. Some things aren’t scaled high enough. Some things aren’t scaled for enough people. It’s not a one-sized fits all system, it’s something Anet has had to adjust time and time again (and in some places it’s still not right).

So what we’re saying is, a ten minute instance that’s around for a week should have scaling applied to it, and if they get that scaling wrong, then what? Then you have the groups saying its’ too easy, it’s too hard, it’s too hot, it’s too warm.

When are people going to learn that things like scaling never satisfy everyone and that doing it isn’t just clicking a button.

To be honest, yes it should have scaling applied. I don’t know how their internal setup for scaling looks like, and how easy it is to apply. But neither do you. A discussion based upon assumptions is pointless. So let’s leave it at that.

That being said, this thread, this complaint is just a symptom of the actual problem: The degradation of quality of this game. Each and every update is made rather sloppy, seems to be rushed and needs at least one hotfix. Even the latest “fix” for the meta achievement didn’t work. There is barely anything worth that could be called content other than a few nice design changes for lions arch.

If they would take their time instead of doing shallow monthly updates, we would have more quality content, instances longer than 10 minutes with proper balancing and scaling for solo/multiplay. We would not just have fake content with the sole purpose to provide an environment for selling new skins (that are gated behind ridiculous rng as well). No. It would be real content, perhaps with a proper story. But that won’t happen anytime soon. Not as long as they turn a big enough profit. And as long as they keep doing that, there will be threads like this.

You say I don’t know about scaling, but I remember stuff devs have said in the past. I haven’t book marked them but they did talk about having to go through and manually do certain things, that scaling wasn’t a one-size fits all, which is why they ask for bug reports where scaling isn’t working as aspected.

There’s a lot of fine-tuning and tweaking they have to do for scaling, at least according to devs, because each event chain is designed from the ground up. They’ve had, in the past, to change the scaling in specific personal story instances and we know that as fact, because they’ve said so. From this we can assume it’s not just a fire and forget.

So is it really worth messing with for a ten minute instance for two weeks. That’s my question. I’m thinking no. And they could have intended to do it, and simply run out of time.

Vayne.8563:

RoterFuchs.9216:

Vayne.8563:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t see why Anet should spend time or money to scale it. It’s gone in a couple of days.

I’m sure in the future there will be both single and multi player instances.

Vayne, why are you ignoring all the players who point out that the scaling system for personal stry mode is already in place? :‘-( You’re usually so thorough!

The scaling system isn’t in place for everything. That is to say, each thing that scaled needed to be separately calibrated and adjusted. Just because you think there’s one equation for everything. doesn’t mean that’s the case. What does that even mean…that the scaling system in in place.

Have you seen the comments about the scaling system throughout these forums for months on end. Some things aren’t scaled high enough. Some things aren’t scaled for enough people. It’s not a one-sized fits all system, it’s something Anet has had to adjust time and time again (and in some places it’s still not right).

So what we’re saying is, a ten minute instance that’s around for a week should have scaling applied to it, and if they get that scaling wrong, then what? Then you have the groups saying its’ too easy, it’s too hard, it’s too hot, it’s too warm.

When are people going to learn that things like scaling never satisfy everyone and that doing it isn’t just clicking a button.

To be honest, yes it should have scaling applied. I don’t know how their internal setup for scaling looks like, and how easy it is to apply. But neither do you. A discussion based upon assumptions is pointless. So let’s leave it at that.

That being said, this thread, this complaint is just a symptom of the actual problem: The degradation of quality of this game. Each and every update is made rather sloppy, seems to be rushed and needs at least one hotfix. Even the latest “fix” for the meta achievement didn’t work. There is barely anything worth that could be called content other than a few nice design changes for lions arch.

If they would take their time instead of doing shallow monthly updates, we would have more quality content, instances longer than 10 minutes with proper balancing and scaling for solo/multiplay. We would not just have fake content with the sole purpose to provide an environment for selling new skins (that are gated behind ridiculous rng as well). No. It would be real content, perhaps with a proper story. But that won’t happen anytime soon. Not as long as they turn a big enough profit. And as long as they keep doing that, there will be threads like this.

You say I don’t know about scaling, but I remember stuff devs have said in the past. I haven’t book marked them but they did talk about having to go through and manually do certain things, that scaling wasn’t a one-size fits all, which is why they ask for bug reports where scaling isn’t working as aspected.

There’s a lot of fine-tuning and tweaking they have to do for scaling, at least according to devs, because each event chain is designed from the ground up. They’ve had, in the past, to change the scaling in specific personal story instances and we know that as fact, because they’ve said so. From this we can assume it’s not just a fire and forget.

So is it really worth messing with for a ten minute instance for two weeks. That’s my question. I’m thinking no. And they could have intended to do it, and simply run out of time.

Just because they have the option to fine tune everything doesn’t mean that they don’t have an option to apply default values. I was simply pointing out that neither you nor me do know the system. You’re also referencing to some old statements made by ANet employees. That’s something you have highly criticized in other threads (e.g. manifesto). For all we know such systems are constantly being worked on. They’re getting improved. So it might have changed already since the statements were made.

Then again I am wondering how you know that the balancing for a 10 minute instance takes 2 weeks? Making up numbers again, are we?

Hey Everyone,

Now that I’m back from the museum, I have a little more time to expand my original post a tad.

First, to be clear, obviously I don’t think ANet “forgot” about the multiplayer aspect of Guild Wars 2. I was being facetious.

The reason I made this post is because last night my girlfriend walked into the room and asked me if I wanted to watch her do the new instance. I did a bit of a double take because when it comes to this MMO, we have done almost all of it together.

I watched her, then logged in and repeated it myself. Sure, it was a short instance, and not particularly engaging, but not being able to experience the story with her takes out a large part of the appeal for me. The same thing happened in the previous Living Story update where we had spent a great deal of time together and with friends, only to be forced into single players instances at the end.

Now, I realize many of us have different opinions and preferences when it comes to playing MMO’s. Some like soloing the entire game, some like doing everything with another, or a group. Every one of these is a legit position to take in my opinion.

The problem here is that ANet is inconsistent with these instances. One update will allow you to join your fellow players, while another will force you to go at it alone. This back and fourth means that players never really know what to expect, and it ultimately leaves someone out.

What confuses me is that the mechanics are in place to allow every instance to be experienced by all. You have PvP mechanics that allow for team creation. You have personal story mechanics that allow for single, or multiple players. There are mechanics to allow players to work together, and for them to do things alone.

What we need as players, is choice.

Said it in another thread….but there is PLENTY of group content in the game. Why does the odd single-player instance….that isn’t even 10 minutes long and for a festival of all things, hurt people so much?

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Looks like they forgot about the “Multiplayer” aspect of MMO.

No they didn’t, the “Multiplayer” part doesn’t mean “Events are all multiplayer” it means “The world supports multiple players.”

PolarisNova.3867:

Said it in another thread….but there is PLENTY of group content in the game. Why does the odd single-player instance….that isn’t even 10 minutes long and for a festival of all things, hurt people so much?

The reason is that, as you stated there is plenty of group content in the game. That is why it seems so out of place when final boss fights and story instances are solo. Players such as myself have gotten quite used to, and quite enjoy working with our friends, family, partners, and PUGS to experience this game.

I’m trying to express that if ANet continues this trend (as they currently are in the coming updates), it means that what was once a multiplayer game (meaning I experience it with real players opposed to NPC’s), starts to feel like a single player game.

I know some enjoy that, but I personally don’t. I would like to see the choice.

PolarisNova.3867:

Said it in another thread….but there is PLENTY of group content in the game. Why does the odd single-player instance….that isn’t even 10 minutes long and for a festival of all things, hurt people so much?

Because for players who care about the story first, these instances are the ones that matter.

I have no problem running around on my own and doing some farming and doing the fire elemental and then crafting – the all-day life. But these story instances are supposed to have an emotional impact as well as shape the world.

I could also word it this way: I don’t mind watching the daily news on my own, but when I go see the new Hobbit movie in the movie theatre, you better believe I’ll take my boyfriend.

Right now, the ordinary, open world stuff is solo OR party, but the story instances are strictly solo. That’s like saying, you can watch the news on your own or with friends, but the movie that you’ve been waiting for and make time for and that is supposed to be a special experience, no, sorry, no friends. It’s going to be just you.

I hope this explains why it is exactly those short story instances that hurt players so much.

Vayne.8563:

Okay let’s look at this realistically. The OP is claiming this as if it’s something that happens ALL THE TIME. They had a single player instance and a multi player instance just last month in Southsun. Before that, they had a multiplayer dungeon that took an hour while IGNORING the single player guys.

Now they’ve given single players something to do. A short instance that in no way does anything to really further the game. Even scaled it would be relatively meaningless.

If they hadn’t included multi-player instances in the last two living story chapters, MAYBE, the OP would have a point.

As it stands, it’s a pointless complaint about something that seems to be a one off.

Straw manning aside, your reply demonstrates exactly why I think this is an issue. It’s obvious even to you that trying to please everyone by limiting choice isn’t working. You can’t exclude, or ignore half the players one month, and then the other half the next.

The fact is that in the last update, and the ones coming up, most of the instances are single player only. This means that for anyone who likes to play the game this way, there are no complaints. However, for all of those who were looking forward to continuing the experience of an unfolding story are forced apart.

This simply isn’t necessary.

Now, in subsequent posts you’ve said that because it’s only a small “10 minute” instance, we really shouldn’t put much care into it. We should just get through it, enjoy it, and go back to what we were doing before (please correct me if I’ve misrepresented your argument).

The problem I have with this is that it’s not about how hard it is, or how fast it is. It’s about being able to experience the game with the people you care about. You may not feel the instance was worth yours, or anyone else’s time, but for some story is everything.

On a side note, in Flame & Frost we were able to partner up and do both Braham, and Rox’s instances, or do them solo. In SAB, we had the option to partner up, or go at it solo.

However, in the Southsun update, the end boss, and the finale were all solo instances. Now, the latest is solo, and so are the up-and-coming updates for the next few days/weeks.

So, the ability is obviously there. The question is why ANet has suddenly decided to deny players the choice.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

when I go see the new Hobbit movie in the movie theatre, you better believe I’ll take my boyfriend.

Please don’t, all it is is a cynical attempt to fleece stupid amounts of money from the public. If we all stop supporting it, maybe it’ll stop and we can all go back to watching the cartoon movie, which is a perfect adaptation of the source material.

Oh and also this is a video game, and an MMO at that…

I wish I could take at least one friend with me. I’m a roleplayer, and I thought this would be a great event for my Order of Whisper’s agent, but she can’t take her partner with her :c

Disclaimer: I’m a solo MMOGer. I like roaming by myself, sometimes with my friend, but I don’t dungeon run or do FotMs. Which is why the personal story instances are great. They’re not perfect, no, but the scaling is nice in that I can bring more if I’m so inclined.

Having said that, even though I’m a solo player, I am disappointed that ANet has not found a way to utilize their scaling system, regardless its effectiveness.

Also I wrote more than I wanted to, but oh well.

TLDR: I believe ANet’s quality control and creativity is stifled by short deadlines. What could be cool, world changing events is turning into fetch x/kill x quests and uninspiring solo instances

Sorry Vayne, the quote syntax messed up on me for some reason. But you mention this:
“So is it really worth messing with for a ten minute instance for two weeks. That’s my question. I’m thinking no. And they could have intended to do it, and simply run out of time.”

Culling the reply for the sake of space, the bolded sentence is what I want to focus on. I think this is the issue that people have in the back of their minds, even if they’re not eloquently stating it in this thread. Murphy touched on it a little bit with the last few comments.

I believe it will become an issue because, plainly, they seem intent releasing content on a near-monthly schedule. If they simply “run out of time” with this update, who’s to say they won’t continue to run out of time in the following months?

This brings up the main, underlying issue with their innovation of providing a constant stream of updates: Are they sacrificing quality and care to meet a strict timeline? Even though you can’t quite call single player instances a trend yet, I can see this Living Story updating as more of a burden than a blessing. ANet is expected to churn out content on a massively quick time schedule, one that hasn’t been tried in any MMOG prior (that I’m aware of), and I think the longevity of the game suffers because of it.

They are hitting their monthly deadlines, yes, but the content so far has been short, uninspiring and bug-ridden. From F&F through SouthSun and now with Dragon Bash, I’ve only enjoyed the F&F dungeon (and I’m not even a dungeon runner) and the SouthSun Instigator loot piñatas (from a pure loot drop Diablo perspective). The rest of it has been, in my opinion, quite bland.

More to an unbiased point: They’ve produced scaling instances before. Why are they not continuing with this? Is it because of time/money/management? It’s not something they will come out and say, but it’s worth wondering where the future is going. Are they still feeling things out? What sort of feedback are they being given through players actions in the game vs. posts on the forums? Will these stories actually change the world in significant ways, or are they mainly one-offs with seemingly very little substance tying each other together?

Ultimately, neither I nor anyone else is privy to their management meetings and NCSoft expectations, so perhaps they’re doing the best they can with the time, money, and personnel that’s been allotted. I would just like to add my voice to the group that’s disappointed in these updates. I reply because I care, and I reply because I know ANet can do a much, much better job than has been shown in the recent months.

And who knows, they could come up with something in a month that blows everyone away. All I can comment on is what I’ve seen so far, and outside of the F&F dungeon, I haven’t had much fun with the Living Story.

Not every instance/event should be multiplayer. A good mix of the two where players can choose to participate in the events they prefer is best and that seems to be what ANet is delivering. Flame and Frost gave us the Molten Weapons Facility (multiplayer), The Secret of Southsun Cove gave us Canach’s Lair (again, multiplayer). Both of these Living Story events contained single player missions throughout. I don’t see a problem.

Inaccordance.7910:

Not every instance/event should be multiplayer. A good mix of the two where players can choose to participate in the events they prefer is best and that seems to be what ANet is delivering. Flame and Frost gave us the Molten Weapons Facility (multiplayer), The Secret of Southsun Cove gave us Canach’s Lair (again, multiplayer). Both of these Living Story events contained single player missions throughout. I don’t see a problem.

If we can’t choose, there is a problem.
The instances of our Personal Story could be finished by a single player, but we always were able to choose if we wanted or not to take someone else with us.
Neither forcing players to form groups nor forcing them to solo is a good idea. Sure, we can choose not to do any of the instances, but then we will miss parts of the lore. That’s not very nice.