Guild Wars 2

Really .. if you hate waiting 2 hours for pseudo-raids in an open world for the hardcore raider crowd .. just ignore it .. don’t even try it, else ANet again thinks its a “big successs” and weget even more of that stuff.

If you don’t like that stuff all we can do is to show them the numbers that only a minority of players enjoy that kind of stuff, and the only way to do that is to totally ignore that stuff.

“…only a Minority of the players enjoy this kind of stuff…”

Could you cite the metrics on this observation please?

NoxInfernus.2361:

“…only a Minority of the players enjoy this kind of stuff…”

Could you cite the metrics on this observation please?

Just take a look how many Server do Teq on their regular Server and not shuttled to some Overflow .. that should normally be enough.

“…only a Minority of the players enjoy this kind of stuff…”
I have to respectfully disagree, this is awesome content. The encounters are epic in scope, the community of people around them is awesome, (I was playing the marionette encounter last night with somewhere around 100 ppl) and they are just a blast to play. If you don’t want to play them, that’s totally ok of course. Just like in other games if you don’t want to raid, don’t raid. This game is huge, there is tons of stuff to do. And the best part is, all of the content is easily accessible to all players. So play the stuff you like. But if I were to call for the removal of an entire type of content just because I didn’t like it, well I would be being short sighted and quite frankly kind of narcissistic.

Evidence? Forums indicate lots of complaining…

BoogerSammich.7189:

“…only a Minority of the players enjoy this kind of stuff…”
I have to respectfully disagree, this is awesome content. The encounters are epic in scope, the community of people around them is awesome, (I was playing the marionette encounter last night with somewhere around 100 ppl) and they are just a blast to play. If you don’t want to play them, that’s totally ok of course. Just like in other games if you don’t want to raid, don’t raid. This game is huge, there is tons of stuff to do. And the best part is, all of the content is easily accessible to all players. So play the stuff you like. But if I were to call for the removal of an entire type of content just because I didn’t like it, well I would be being short sighted and quite frankly kind of narcissistic.

Except we shouldn’t be punished for having a small/low player count server. These events shouldn’t require dedicated guilds on only certain servers. These events (Teq/Wurm) should scale to the number of players participating. And what about the players that do want to do it, but play at a time when there’s hardly anyone on?

So what is awsome if you are maybe just 10 foot before a Vista in Lornas Pass and then suddenly dead ?
This is just the most stupid thing that ever has been done in a MMO ..

This should definitely be instanced and the rewards should be improved. You could then use a raid group that practices and not rely on luck from a zerg.

Yes I already said I won’t be doing this meta, but then I probably wont be able to log on much until two weeks from now since nothing else new to do really exists. Many people are playing this since this is new and we haven’t gotten an update for a while.

I ignored Teq largely and that did not stop them from making more Teq like encounters that are open world and not instanced where you are largely at the mercy of the overflow system.

Exquisitor.5076:

Evidence? Forums indicate lots of complaining…

Forums are far far far from the majority.

NoxInfernus.2361:

“…only a Minority of the players enjoy this kind of stuff…”

Could you cite the metrics on this observation please?

Well, I intend on taking the OPs advice but only ArenaNet actually have the metrics for this.

I really don’t want to be sitting around waiting for events to pop like with Tequatl again but as this has repeated the same pattern as Tequatl (long spawn times and overflow issues requiring you to be there long in advance to get a slot on your home server, complex content that others can mess up for you and so on) I assume they don’t see it as a problem at all.

skullmount.1758:

Except we shouldn’t be punished for having a small/low player count server. These events shouldn’t require dedicated guilds on only certain servers. These events (Teq/Wurm) should scale to the number of players participating. And what about the players that do want to do it, but play at a time when there’s hardly anyone on?

These are actually pretty good points and I agree on some levels. While i don’t feel like anyone is being “punished” per say, I will definitely admit that you need a LOT of players to finish this stuff. This has pro and cons of course. I feel like all of the issues you mentioned are somewhat related and could be addressed with some sort of tweak on the open world idea. I don’t necessarily want to drop the “instance” bomb. But maybe open instancing? Maybe something where you could see instance queues in looking for group. When your queue fills up, the encounter starts. It could even use the overflow system that’s already in place, just with another layer that allows a level of control over it. Heck, taking it even further they could possibly allow guilds like TTS or whatever to start private instance queues so they can funnel large numbers of guild members in etc. Then even allow the option to turn the queue public once they get all of their members in.
IMHO the content is a LOT of fun. But a better system of implementation i fell would go a long way towards making it a better experience for everyone.

Beldin.5498:

Really .. if you hate waiting 2 hours for pseudo-raids in an open world for the hardcore raider crowd .. just ignore it .. don’t even try it, else ANet again thinks its a “big successs” and weget even more of that stuff.

If you don’t like that stuff all we can do is to show them the numbers that only a minority of players enjoy that kind of stuff, and the only way to do that is to totally ignore that stuff.

Already did that with Teq2.0.

They made the Wurm. So that approach clearly does not work. What would probably work is a nice, scathing review on an MMO website or a magazine.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Already did that with Teq2.0.

They made the Wurm. So that approach clearly does not work. What would probably work is a nice, scathing review on an MMO website or a magazine.

It would maybe work if all the players who already hated Teq and still run to the new events because of maybe some more stupid achievement points, even if they know that they will be just frustrated, simply would directly ignore it.

Or maybe it didn’t work because there are far more people that enjoy this type of content than you try to indicate? Yeah there are fewer people doing Teq now but there are far fewer people doing things like scarlet invasion, which had tons of people doing it when it launched.

The OP is right. If people really don’t like the content, don’t participate. It’s the #1 way that ANET tells if we like something or not. They look at player participation.

If you shouted from the heavens that you hate the Wurm..but you have done it 5 times already in less than 24 hours.. Well to ANET the Wurm is a huge success because so many people are playing it.

The simple fact is, right now these zones are packed because people are playing the new content. They may not like it or even hate it, but they still are playing it. In the end, that’s what matters.

Ayrilana.1396:

Exquisitor.5076:

Evidence? Forums indicate lots of complaining…

Forums are far far far from the majority.

Just ask all the people who are stuck on overflow with no commanders and not enough people to do the event. That should be “proof” enough.

I went to it yesterday to see what all the hubbub was about….

I have to admit personally it’s not my cup of tea, so to speak, so I’ll just go back to leveling my thief, maybe running some dungeons with my guildies and playing Warframe. If friends want to go do this new content sure I’ll go with them but I really have no incentive to go on my own, they’re a lot of work in a metric ton of lag for what will likely amount to little more than a repair bill on my gear.

Exquisitor.5076:

Evidence? Forums indicate lots of complaining…

Because players who like this stuff aren’t on the forms they are playing it.

This is probably all planned far ahead. It may take months before Anet changes content on behalf of players input. Just keep giving your opinion.

BoogerSammich.7189:

skullmount.1758:

Except we shouldn’t be punished for having a small/low player count server. These events shouldn’t require dedicated guilds on only certain servers. These events (Teq/Wurm) should scale to the number of players participating. And what about the players that do want to do it, but play at a time when there’s hardly anyone on?

These are actually pretty good points and I agree on some levels. While i don’t feel like anyone is being “punished” per say, I will definitely admit that you need a LOT of players to finish this stuff. This has pro and cons of course. I feel like all of the issues you mentioned are somewhat related and could be addressed with some sort of tweak on the open world idea. I don’t necessarily want to drop the “instance” bomb. But maybe open instancing? Maybe something where you could see instance queues in looking for group. When your queue fills up, the encounter starts. It could even use the overflow system that’s already in place, just with another layer that allows a level of control over it. Heck, taking it even further they could possibly allow guilds like TTS or whatever to start private instance queues so they can funnel large numbers of guild members in etc. Then even allow the option to turn the queue public once they get all of their members in.
IMHO the content is a LOT of fun. But a better system of implementation i fell would go a long way towards making it a better experience for everyone.

Ok, I needed to login and give you a +1 here. Model these after the PvP model where all the servers can mix for instances. That way high pop, low pop, doesn’t matter. If you want to do the content you can. I understand you can guest but for things like this it makes sense for an instance. Then you can also adjust timers as needed. Good hunting!

Zanshin.5379:

Ayrilana.1396:

Exquisitor.5076:

Evidence? Forums indicate lots of complaining…

Forums are far far far from the majority.

Just ask all the people who are stuck on overflow with no commanders and not enough people to do the event. That should be “proof” enough.

You don’t need commanders to do this event. I’ve also been in groups that have killed their champion with only 3 players as the other two thought standing in circles was a great idea.

I will also mention that you don’t need 125 players to do this event. I think there’s a 5 minute cool-down between entering portals. You could theoretically get by with just 75 players but this is likely the absolute bare minimum and you won’t see it being done anytime soon. The more skilled and DPS spec’d players, the easier it will be.

Delvoire.8930:

The OP is right. If people really don’t like the content, don’t participate. It’s the #1 way that ANET tells if we like something or not. They look at player participation.

I would have thought the #1 was of telling them we don’t like it would be, umm… telling them we don’t like it.

In the intrest of gathering data…I like the marionette, dislike the wurm. If everybody posts their like and dislike, then we will know.

Ayrilana.1396:

Exquisitor.5076:

Evidence? Forums indicate lots of complaining…

Forums are far far far from the majority.

This is bunk, plain and simple, and your mind set seems to be the same one that Arena Net has.

Their argument of “Well we see a bunch of people doing the content so that means the forums are in the minority” means absolutely nothing. Do you know why people are doing this content? Because Anet is dangling a carrot on a stick in front of people who chase after it for those Achievement Points, which also dangle carrots in the forums of reward chests, and the meta rewards.

Take away the achievements, leave only the content in it’s place, and we’ll see how many people are still doing this content after the first day, when they’ve finished the storyline to it. You know what, I’ll just spoil the answer: It will be none. No one will be doing this content.

The forums are where Anet should be paying the most attention, as these things were designed with the idea of us having a back and forth with the developers to ensure the game became something we want to play.

Now mind you, I’m not talking about people who say “My class is borked, FIX IT!”, that information should be taken with a grain of salt. But when you have an entire forum that’s almost 90% complaints and dislike for this update, and about 10% of blind loving, there’s a problem. When this is a consistent issue, as it has been since Queen’s Jubiliee, arguably the last enjoyable LS update, there’s a major issue at hand.

But since you, and Anet themselves, have said that they believe the forums are in the minority, and that their numbers say people are doing this content (because again: The carrot on a stick), there’s essentially no back and forth with the developers. Compare discussions here to those on the Blizzard Forums, or hell, even the Turbine or Square Enix Forums, where the Developers take feed back, have exchanges with their forum goers, and better the game from it, and it’s no wonder people are getting fed up.

Arena Net does not listen to us. They hear only what they want to hear, and ignore what they need to hear, and GW2 is starting to pay for it. You can cry until your throat’s horse that the game is fine, the cotnent is amazing, and we’re all just whiners. But when January of 2015 rolls around, and this game is a ghost town because it’s obvious Anet would rather shove their own idea of content down our throat and continue to lock the fancy stuff behind the Gem Stores, you’ll only have yourself, and Anet, to blame.

Obviously these encounters just don’t work given the current implementation since people shuttle into overflows in order to do them. Population caps should be raised for home servers and the events need to scale properly so they don’t end up abandoned on smaller servers.

Throwing more people at an event should not be done to trivialize content when players lack the skill, knowledge of mechanics, and/or strategy/coordination.

Ayrilana.1396:

Throwing more people at an event should not be done to trivialize content when players lack the skill, knowledge of mechanics, and/or strategy/coordination.

And yet that is exactly how Tequatl is farmed in overflows. It’s not a matter of skillful play, it’s a matter of bringing enough warm bodies and exceeding the cap by shuttling people in. The encounter was further trivialized by summons.

What these events need is proper scaling. Section the area off when the fight starts and have the encounter scale based on many people are present.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Delvoire.8930:

The OP is right. If people really don’t like the content, don’t participate. It’s the #1 way that ANET tells if we like something or not. They look at player participation.

I would have thought the #1 was of telling them we don’t like it would be, umm… telling them we don’t like it.

Nah. The player base that log into the forums and post is miniscule compared to what log in and play the game.

Posting a complaint here can be warranted. If it’s constructive and not just name calling and bashing. On the same token, if 1,000 people came here to post how they didn’t like the new content, it would really not mean much if 20,000 players are actively logging in and doing said content.

They look at success from player involvement in the game. Metric taken by player participation. They don’t do it by sifting through all these threads to see Jimmy Joe has made 40 threads saying he hates the game and the grass textures.

Exquisitor.5076:

Evidence? Forums indicate lots of complaining…

As they always do.

Blade Syphon.4325:

Ayrilana.1396:

Exquisitor.5076:

Evidence? Forums indicate lots of complaining…

Forums are far far far from the majority.

This is bunk, plain and simple, and your mind set seems to be the same one that Arena Net has.

Their argument of “Well we see a bunch of people doing the content so that means the forums are in the minority” means absolutely nothing. Do you know why people are doing this content? Because Anet is dangling a carrot on a stick in front of people who chase after it for those Achievement Points, which also dangle carrots in the forums of reward chests, and the meta rewards.

Take away the achievements, leave only the content in it’s place, and we’ll see how many people are still doing this content after the first day, when they’ve finished the storyline to it. You know what, I’ll just spoil the answer: It will be none. No one will be doing this content.

The forums are where Anet should be paying the most attention, as these things were designed with the idea of us having a back and forth with the developers to ensure the game became something we want to play.

Now mind you, I’m not talking about people who say “My class is borked, FIX IT!”, that information should be taken with a grain of salt. But when you have an entire forum that’s almost 90% complaints and dislike for this update, and about 10% of blind loving, there’s a problem. When this is a consistent issue, as it has been since Queen’s Jubiliee, arguably the last enjoyable LS update, there’s a major issue at hand.

But since you, and Anet themselves, have said that they believe the forums are in the minority, and that their numbers say people are doing this content (because again: The carrot on a stick), there’s essentially no back and forth with the developers. Compare discussions here to those on the Blizzard Forums, or hell, even the Turbine or Square Enix Forums, where the Developers take feed back, have exchanges with their forum goers, and better the game from it, and it’s no wonder people are getting fed up.

Arena Net does not listen to us. They hear only what they want to hear, and ignore what they need to hear, and GW2 is starting to pay for it. You can cry until your throat’s horse that the game is fine, the cotnent is amazing, and we’re all just whiners. But when January of 2015 rolls around, and this game is a ghost town because it’s obvious Anet would rather shove their own idea of content down our throat and continue to lock the fancy stuff behind the Gem Stores, you’ll only have yourself, and Anet, to blame.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule_

Just gonna throw that out there. Posters are probably LESS than 1% of the playerbase since a lot of people dont even check the forums AT ALL.

Fungalfoot.7213:

Ayrilana.1396:

Throwing more people at an event should not be done to trivialize content when players lack the skill, knowledge of mechanics, and/or strategy/coordination.

And yet that is exactly how Tequatl is farmed in overflows. It’s not a matter of skillful play, it’s a matter of bringing enough warm bodies and exceeding the cap by shuttling people in. The encounter was further trivialized by summons.

What these events need is proper scaling. Section the area off when the fight starts and have the encounter scale based on many people are present.

No. You can have a hard capped map (main or overflow doesn’t matter) and still not beat Tequatl. Skill, knowledge of mechanics, coordination, etc still play a very large role in whether it is successful. If it was as you said (not a matter of skillful play) then everyone with a hard capped map would be able to beat it. Unfortunately this is far from true. I’ll also add that one server focused solely on one wurm and still couldn’t beat it. Clearly numbers is not the main issue.

Didn’t read most the posts following the OP, but I enjoyed the Marionette fight and the story content that followed.

I’m also looking forward to attempting the Wurm fight with guild.

I saw a lot of posts about what percentage of people use forums and some discussion about that. I play with 10 or so friends who still enjoy this game and have never posted anything in forums, they believe that’s too committed to a game. If they enjoy the game they play it, if they don’t they stop playing easy as that. The first time I came onto the forum it was about a complaint, and I believe that most people will more likely go onto the forums if they have to voice a complaint

Beldin.5498:

So what is awsome if you are maybe just 10 foot before a Vista in Lornas Pass and then suddenly dead ?
This is just the most stupid thing that ever has been done in a MMO ..

My advice, for the next few weeks at least (we don’t know if it’ll last 2 weeks, only quote we’ve had on that is that it’ll be up for as long as it makes sense for the living story) carry some resurrection orbs in your inventory when exploring in Lornar’s Pass.

I say that majority enjoys this type of content. There you go. And my word is as good as mine.

Exquisitor.5076:

Evidence? Forums indicate lots of complaining…

Please find me a game forum that isn’t filled with complaints.

I’ll wait

Beldin.5498:

So what is awsome if you are maybe just 10 foot before a Vista in Lornas Pass and then suddenly dead ?
This is just the most stupid thing that ever has been done in a MMO ..

actually similar thing happend in wow at some point

there was a huge dragon randomly flying over zones and one shotting anything in random areas…you couldn’t kill him either btw

oh and you had to walk back to your corpse lol

Beldin.5498:

NoxInfernus.2361:

“…only a Minority of the players enjoy this kind of stuff…”

Could you cite the metrics on this observation please?

Just take a look how many Server do Teq on their regular Server and not shuttled to some Overflow .. that should normally be enough.

Yeah. It’s so unpopular that the top servers are overflowed several times over by guesters multiple times per day!

It’s not unpopular. It has simply revealed the weakness of the guesting system. No one guests to low-pop servers to help them gain the numbers to do events; that would be risky.

I would argue your point. No, the players who enjoy this content are not in the minority. Yes, there should be more content like this. BUT, the minimum player requirement should be drastically reduced. If an event requires more than 20 players, it’s not acceptable design in a game where low population servers and a large open world exist.

You are all too funny. You can’t judge success or failure of new content 24 hours in. Yes, it will be popular the first few days. The question is whether it will still be popular 2 weeks from now

style.6173:

You are all too funny. You can’t judge success or failure of new content 24 hours in. Yes, it will be popular the first few days. The question is whether it will still be popular 2 weeks from now

Tequatl is still overflowed several times over on major servers – and it could be argued that his rewards may not be worth it.

That indicates a pretty sizable desire on the community’s part to take part in world bosses that are somewhat challenging.

Tequatl went from a very popular event to a ghosttown on most servers most of the time. And yet we still got this new Teq-wurm event. They either aren’t paying attention to the metrics, collecting the wrong metrics or somehow taking the wrong lessons from the data.

A ton of people just do the LS content just for the achievements. Then Anet looks at the metrics and interprets them as people loving the content. And so we get more of it.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

style.6173:

You are all too funny. You can’t judge success or failure of new content 24 hours in. Yes, it will be popular the first few days. The question is whether it will still be popular 2 weeks from now

Tequatl is still overflowed several times over on major servers – and it could be argued that his rewards may not be worth it.

That indicates a pretty sizable desire on the community’s part to take part in world bosses that are somewhat challenging.

If most servers tried it on a regular basis that would indicate a “sizable” desire to do it.

Beldin.5498:

Really .. if you hate waiting 2 hours for pseudo-raids in an open world for the hardcore raider crowd .. just ignore it .. don’t even try it, else ANet again thinks its a “big successs” and weget even more of that stuff.

If you don’t like that stuff all we can do is to show them the numbers that only a minority of players enjoy that kind of stuff, and the only way to do that is to totally ignore that stuff.

Heres what I’m reading.

The content doesn’t throw a bag of loot in my face just for showing up. qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq

Learn to play the game and improve the content isn’t difficult if you pay attention. God forbid you have to do actual mechanics that aren’t just zerg zerg zerg.

The only people that expect loot to be thrown at them are the same people that refuse to waypoint because it costs 1.3s. I hate these people but they will not leave.

If Anet wants to have raids so bad, just follow WoW’s example and make parties of ~40 some odd people who CAN be organized enough to complete something this hard. There are overflows for these events because a server fills up, and a lot of those people have no idea what they are doing at all and it completely ruins it for anyone seriously trying.

Beldin.5498:

NoxInfernus.2361:

“…only a Minority of the players enjoy this kind of stuff…”

Could you cite the metrics on this observation please?

Just take a look how many Server do Teq on their regular Server and not shuttled to some Overflow .. that should normally be enough.

All servers have the capability to do teq so that doesn’t mean alot

Fafnir.5124:

NoxInfernus.2361:

“…only a Minority of the players enjoy this kind of stuff…”

Could you cite the metrics on this observation please?

Beldin.5498:

Just take a look how many Server do Teq on their regular Server and not shuttled to some Overflow .. that should normally be enough.

All servers have the capability to do teq so that doesn’t mean alot

Quite the opposite. If all the servers have the capability to do him, but only a few actually attempts to, it does tell us something about how widely the event is liked. Apparently not much.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

style.6173:

You are all too funny. You can’t judge success or failure of new content 24 hours in. Yes, it will be popular the first few days. The question is whether it will still be popular 2 weeks from now

Tequatl is still overflowed several times over on major servers – and it could be argued that his rewards may not be worth it.

Yeah. about 5-6 servers still do him – let’s say 150 people each. 900 people. Let’s say there’s double that number in overflows – 2700 total. Most people doing Teq are the same each kill – so, let’s say around 10k people still participate in this event across all servers. Considering the amount of active acounts, that’s single digit percent value (low single digit percent value) of the whole population. And not all participants actually even enjoy it – i know a number of people that do it quite often, but only because they hope to get Teq unique skins.

And all of the abowe was before the nerf to fire dust – the failure rate went up since then, so even more people will give up on it.

No, everything points to this event not being popular at all, and being done only by a tiny sliver of the game population. By all signs, the wurm event (being both harder and more annoying) will end up in even worse state.

And yet some people are asking to have more of those. And Anet listens to them, because they do not want to admit they may have made a design mistake.

In the words of a famous sylvari strategist, “It won’t end well”.

Have to say this update disenchanted me with Guild Wars 2. Don’t get me wrong, I still like the game. But, overall, I don’t feel the need to explore all the content like I usually do.

Could have to do with the wait time, the raiding aspect, the required coordination with players who stay clueless, or all three, but something just isn’t working for me. Again, sorry to say, but I’m bore with it. And that’s always a bad sign.

Everything just feels . . . dragged out . . . if that makes any sense.

Astralporing.1957:

Yeah. about 5-6 servers still do him – let’s say 150 people each. 900 people. Let’s say there’s double that number in overflows – 2700 total. Most people doing Teq are the same each kill – so, let’s say around 10k people still participate in this event across all servers. Considering the amount of active acounts, that’s single digit percent value (low single digit percent value) of the whole population. And not all participants actually even enjoy it – i know a number of people that do it quite often, but only because they hope to get Teq unique skins.

There’s allot of speculation in your post. Arguing numbers without proper research or access to metrics is never a good thing, so I won’t do that. However I will say this:
Tequatl was the first revamp boss, something to test if the people were actually interested in harder content.
Following the public reception of Tequatl, ANet (the only guys who know how many players on how many servers actually do Teq) decided to follow up with not one but two boss fights. That means that, in their eyes, the participation on revamped bosses is enough to warrant an increase in resources spent and continuation of boss revamping.