Guild Wars 2

Ok, so since the first week or so of Drytop being available, I was running on T4/5/6 maps almost every night. I was not always able to find such a map right away, but was usually able to find one within an hour or so, and then spend an hour or two running on it before moving to something else. Over the past week or so though, this has become more or less impossible. The best I’ve been able to find is a map that could barely squeak out a T5, and for the most part they have been maps that could barely manage a T4.

There need to be some changes to this system somehow. At the very least there needs to be a better way to matchmaker players, because I’m sure that there are at least 150 players at any given time that are willing and able to make a map T6, but they are all spread in groups of 10-20 on “hopeful” ~T4 maps and don’t want to jump ship to another T4 map without some guarantee that it will be better. I don’t know the best way to do this though.

The problem is that until the Sandstorm comes, 40 minutes of hard work in, you can’t tell exactly where the map will end up, and each time the sandstorm ends, the map’s status shifts considerably, because people wander off between rounds, and a T6 map can drop to a T3 one the next round if a lot of the big players check out. You can sort of gauge how a map is doing by watching the favor tracker on the side and comparing it to where it should be at any given time, but this is a fairly vague feedback, and you need to know from experience where the bar needs to be at any given time. For example at the five minute mark you’d want the tracker to be at least T2 already with about 10-20% in.

One thing that would help is to have an event checklist built into the UI somewhere. Maybe not visible all the time along the side of the screen, but something you could pop up that would list the event schedule, and put a green check next to the ones that were cleared, two for a bonus, and a red X for those that failed. That way a player could tell at a glance how many balls were dropped and which they were, which areas need more support. Ideally you would also be able to tell at a glance how populated each event is, how many players are within the orange circle for each.

Ideally though, the map would just adapt to the players better, and not require such precision to reach T6 if that precision is not available. Requiring a completely full and dedicated map is just not a reasonable goal once the initial shine has worn off. The goals should be rebalanced to be based on an uncapped map being able to complete the tiers with only partial engagement.

We also need a better way of moving through maps than random chance or taxiing in. You need to be able to leave a map to check out a new one, but then return to the one you were on if you prefer. To be able to see the full list of active maps, perhaps with their populations showing, and pick and choose them at will, rather than rolling the dice repeatedly and hoping to get a good result. The random matchmaking works fine for some maps, but not for Drytop.

And for God’s sake let’s not have any of that “well you should just organize the map you’re on and make it a T6 map!” because anyone who has actually played on these maps knows what a waste of time that would be.

I hate that most of these last additions to the world of tyria have been organisation challenges and not actual challenges. When I’m in a potentionally nice server I often go do events that others wouldn’t (serene / bucket defence). But I feel so reluctant to go and organise a bunch of people I don’t know.

Really hope there will be nicer ways to not make them organise challenges rather than in game challenges. Having more people on the map would help with that, or less spread out people across servers depending on how you want to call it.

If you think GW2 Dry Top is dead, you should see GW1 Dry Top.

Dry Top isn’t dead. Everytime I’m there it gets at least to T4.

narwhalsbend.7059:

If you think GW2 Dry Top is dead, you should see GW1 Dry Top.

You win the forum for today!

Dry Top isn’t dead. Everytime I’m there it gets at least to T4.

Yeah, but T4 is relatively effortless now (since there is more favor to go around), and in many cases individual events are still mostly dead. The point is to hit T6, and that’s become next to impossible to find. I’ve been on a few solid T5 maps lately, but that’s about it. The “organizational” guilds seem to have given up on the place, and what organization I have been able to find has been haphazard at best. One map I was on tonight hit T5 and then people promptly started attacking the BEETLE, of all things, pretty much killing any chance of getting T6 the next run. I once zoned into a map that was T1 during sandstorm, but that’s of course an oddity.

TLDR; T4 is nothing, it’s T6 or bust, and T6 is hard to find these days.

How about not “finding” t6, but doing it?

How about not “finding” t6, but doing it?

Sorry, I can’t solo all the events simultaneously.

If you mean “work to make a map into a T6 map” then sure, I try that all the time, but your results are only as good as your ingredients. You need a pretty solid combination of other players to stand any chance at a solid T6 map, and nowadays it seems like that’s impossible to find. As I said in the OP, there are likely enough players on at any given time to do it, but they are spread between multiple dead-end maps, futilely trying to whip a few dozen so-so players into clearing the various required missions. It’s not that hard to do, but it’s impossible if you don’t have the players. I started tonight on a T4 map, and got them up to T5.5 for two rounds in a row, but then I had to leave.

I don’t have the time to shepherd a map for hours and hours at a stretch, I need one that’s ready to be T6 the first time I get there, and I’m willing to work as hard as anyone to make that happen over the course of that run, but I hate to waste my efforts giving my 100% to a map that peaks out at T5.

For t6 you can only miss a few events or bonuses (like 4-5 I think). You need more organization then just trying with randoms on the map.

As you said, you can get it “solo” (tagging up and commanding) to t5 with a bit of effort. For t6 you need TS and/or 10 people who know exactly what to do. I think it’s fine that way, more organization, higher rewards, but even with t4 you can get everything you want.

If you can organize it yourself, go for it, if not, there are many communites organizing such events. I don’t know if you are from EU or not, but EU has ts.gw2community.com (that’s a teamspeak adress), I think they do t6 daily.

We on WSR (Whiteside Ridge) do t6 2 times a week (one being today), you are more than welcome to join in our efforts. You can check out details on the site: http://www.whitesideridge.com

Why can’t our characters earn this favor as individuals once and then keep it?

As you said, you can get it “solo” (tagging up and commanding) to t5 with a bit of effort. For t6 you need TS and/or 10 people who know exactly what to do. I think it’s fine that way, more organization, higher rewards, but even with t4 you can get everything you want.

Unless what you want is T6. It’s not just about item availability, it’s about total reward level. If you are on a T6 map, and let’s say your goal is to buy ten keys and 25 clay bricks, then if you complete a standard event chain you’ll make a total of 112 geodes off that sandstorm, and you’d only spend 290 geodes on what you want, compared to making 80 off a T4, and costing 410. That’s a relative difference of 152 geodes, or almost two full T4 runs, and that’s assuming that you’re working just as hard while doing the T4 run as while doing the T6 run.

Also factor in that a T4 map is likely to run less smoothly than a coordinated T6 map, so when you do things like the Mite farms, you might not get as much from them, or you might not complete all the events. I’ve been on T4 maps where when the mite farm element came up, only 2-3 other players were around!

They just need to do a better job of automatically concentrating players that know what they’re doing and want to do well, and to not leave it so vague as to how the map you’re on is doing. I mean, if after the first five minutes the map isn’t already T2 and if early bonuses are missed, that’s a bad sign, but you really can’t tell how the map is doing for fifteen+ minutes in, and by then it can be too late to turn it around. There need to be ways to still get T6 even if the first few rounds go very poorly. Also, just from a design standpoint, they really need to auto-kill the “trap bosses” like the Beetle and the Dust Monster at the XX:00 mark, because they are very distracting for bad players and prevent them from getting to the tasks they need to be doing at that phase.

Maybe they could re-adjust the favor given out, so that the first round counts half as much while the last round counts double, Meaning that even if you somehow fail every event in the first round, if you aggressively recruit and train people up during the middle round then you can pull it out if you can clear all those events.

If you can organize it yourself, go for it, if not, there are many communites organizing such events. I don’t know if you are from EU or not, but EU has ts.gw2community.com (that’s a teamspeak adress), I think they do t6 daily.

I’m on NA, and the TTS drytop channel has been completely empty for the past week or so. That used to be an option though.

Perhaps there could be some sort of guild event? On Thursday nights you get a map, reserved for your guild and whoever it chooses to taxi in. You can make mutually beneficial arrangements with other guild who has Tuesdays, you invite them and they invite you. Non-representing guilds might be formed just for doing this. Hmm. I have no actual idea how guild events work, but pardon me for musing.

I do feel a bit sad, when I’m on a T4/T5 map doing my LS quests and getting the vistas and skillpoints, being one of the people holding you back from T6. I don’t feel guilty — I’m not put there for your convenience — but it’s a shame.

narwhalsbend.7059:

If you think GW2 Dry Top is dead, you should see GW1 Dry Top.

Good one. I had to laugh because it is true.

Perhaps there could be some sort of guild event? On Thursday nights you get a map, reserved for your guild and whoever it chooses to taxi in.

I don’t like scheduling. Scheduling is a 20th Century concept. I like “on demand,” I like for the map to be ready for me when I get there, not for be to have to be ready when the map is ready.

I do feel a bit sad, when I’m on a T4/T5 map doing my LS quests and getting the vistas and skillpoints, being one of the people holding you back from T6. I don’t feel guilty — I’m not put there for your convenience — but it’s a shame.

And I don’t exactly begrudge you, you’re not doing anything “wrong” necessarily, but I know that when I’m on a map just to screw around if I find that it’s a T5+ map then I try to log out and shift maps to get out of their way. Really though it’s the game dev’s fault for having “other stuff” to do in the zone when having a full dedicated map is so important to success.

I suggested when the map first came out that they should have two versions of the map, one with no “Favor of the Zephyrites” meta but with the LS, exploration, coins, etc., and one that ONLY has the meta events, no coins to be found, no LS nodes, nothing to distract people from the mission at hand, and you can only get into the latter by queuing up for it from the LFG UI or something, so everyone who does end up there knows that they are there to T6 or bust.

The same theory applies to Sparkfly and Bloodtide.

Well, just got t6 yesterday twice. Once I got into a randomly organized one, and once we organized it with friends.

I feel sorry for NA servers I guess.

@Tachenon: cause MMO.

Well, just got t6 yesterday twice. Once I got into a randomly organized one, and once we organized it with friends.

I feel sorry for NA servers I guess.

It’s possible they still happen on NA servers too, perhaps at different times than I play, or maybe even the times I do play, but it’s kitten ed hard to find them if they do. A week or two back it wasn’t hard, I could get on teamspeak and typically find a taxi that was on a good map, or see the occasional “taxi to T5/6 map” of some kind, but nowadays the LFG tool only shows a few “LF organized map” or so, and not even that many of those, and if anyone is advertising taxis, it’s to a semi-hopeful T4 map of some kind.

If you do have healthy T6 maps happening, then chances are they would be advertising taxis from time to time, because you need to keep churning in new players each round to keep it up.

Ohoni.6057:

I don’t like scheduling. Scheduling is a 20th Century concept. I like “on demand,” I like for the map to be ready for me when I get there, not for be to have to be ready when the map is ready.

And I’m a 20th century person…

Perhaps another option would be something with commanders, since it seems like everybody is a commander now. If a commander is on Dry Top has n people under them, they may request a new instance for their crew when the sandstorm ends.

[Dry Top is an hourly cycle, so certain values of “when I arrive” would be taking liberties — you shouldn’t expect to arrive 37 minutes in and find it at tier 5.9…]

Ohoni.6057:

Perhaps there could be some sort of guild event? On Thursday nights you get a map, reserved for your guild and whoever it chooses to taxi in.

I don’t like scheduling. Scheduling is a 20th Century concept. I like “on demand,” I like for the map to be ready for me when I get there, not for be to have to be ready when the map is ready.

Scheduling is what you do when people you have no control over are required to complete your objectives. Try going into a workplace and telling people that schedules are dead and they should do what you want “on demand”.

What is so bad about getting T5 anyway? Sure its not perfect but its not awful either.

This is the fly in the soup. Most of the elite players farmed all content for the back pieces and have moved on. Leaving the casual players to try and get their parts and achievements for themselves. All we can do is continue to fight and enjoy the content. A t4 is all we as casual players can do to finish the back piece. At least the achievements are able to be gotten with friends and guildmates.

[Dry Top is an hourly cycle, so certain values of “when I arrive” would be taking liberties — you shouldn’t expect to arrive 37 minutes in and find it at tier 5.9…]

Of course, but I think you should be able to show up within the range of XX:50 to XX:10 or so and end up on a map capable of hitting T6.

I’ve said elsewhere that the current Dry Top schedule is a bit too tight. I would prefer it if they removed one round of pre-sandstorm (adjusting Favor requirements accordingly), so that the xx:00-xx:10 block has nothing going on during it, allowing time to wrap up boss fights and organize the next run, without cutting in on the first round. Or alternately, just weigh the favor rewards so that doing the first round perfectly only rewards about half or less as much as completing the third round perfectly, making it more of a “trial run” that doesn’t really matter if you completely bungle it. So long as you get things into shape by the second round you’ll probably do fine.

What is so bad about getting T5 anyway? Sure its not perfect but its not awful either.

As I noted up thread, between the difference in rewarded geodes and the difference in material costs, it’s equivalent to doing an entire hour or more of T4. It’s hardly the end of the world or anything, but it is certainly frustrating to miss out on such a significant reward because you’re on a map that cannot keep up.

Dry Top has been a problem for me the past few days. I have never seen T6 since DR part 2 started, T5 once and a few times T4. Due to the lacking sorting mechanics of Megaservers you can easily get stuck on a T1 or T2 map and never get higher. You are at the mercy of people on T3+ maps to look at the LFG tool and ferry you to a higher tier map, which rarely happens these days.

I’ve seen T6 only once, but T5 a couple of times when the map was organised. I don’t see it as a huge deal as you can acquire all the components from T4 onwards, although it will take you more grinding to buy at lower tiers. In time though, as player interest moves on, I agree that ANet should perhaps look at lowering the requirements for T5/6 as you need a near-fully capped map in order to get that kind of success.

I have accomplished all achi’s, crafted an Embrite weapon and the Maudrey back piece without ever reaching T6, and only having reached T5 once since season 2 launched. It’s doable. Deal with it.

How is that helpful?

Dry Top is an PvE map. And we should all know what happens to PvE maps. They die out, since there is not much to do. Dry Top has atleast an own currency.

Ohoni.6057:

How is that helpful?

Stop looking for easy mode and put in the work. You don’t need T6 to craft goodies. In fact the only level related achievement requires T4. Your late to the party and still demand easy mode. Get over it and start grinding. How’s that for help.

Stop looking for easy mode and put in the work.

I didn’t say anything about easy mode. I’m perfectly willing to put in 100% effort. I’d just like my 100% effort to translate into 100% success, instead of into T4 because a bunch of other people didn’t even bother trying. If I’m going to be putting out 100% effort, I’d like to be able to find a map where the other players are also putting out 100% effort, or for the game to not require any more than my 100% effort to give my my 100% rewards.

There is nothing in any of that about making things easier.

Your late to the party and still demand easy mode. Get over it and start grinding. How’s that for help.

What are you talking about “late to the party?” I’ve been doing drytop nightly since it launched. I was getting T4s about 8-10 nights of the first fortnight. I was getting T5s about 10-12 nights out of that fortnight. I was getting T6s about 12-14 nights out of that fortnight. I have about six of the amber weapons (and could have made more but didn’t care to), my Mawdry II, and the ingredients to make more to sell, etc.

But I like Dry Top. I want to be able to continue to do Dry Top, and I want it to not be a waste of my time, but over the past week or so that has become more or less impossible, as any map I’ve been able to find has been a complete mess, at best stumbling over the T5 line. I want back the Drytop experience that was available a couple weeks back.

I believe the problem right now is a lack of redundant players, that the players willing and able to make it work are spread across too many maps and are having a hard time finding each other, but if there actually aren’t enough players to work the map in it’s current state, then they do need to tweak the requirements to allow less players to clear it. It shouldn’t be easier, it should require effort from everyone who participates, but it should be more forgiving about not having enough participants around to make it work.

Gorani.7205:

Dry Top has been a problem for me the past few days. I have never seen T6 since DR part 2 started, T5 once and a few times T4. Due to the lacking sorting mechanics of Megaservers you can easily get stuck on a T1 or T2 map and never get higher. You are at the mercy of people on T3+ maps to look at the LFG tool and ferry you to a higher tier map, which rarely happens these days.

Dude, you can solo t3. I’m not even kidding.

Guilds have been formed to do Tequatl, maybe you need to form a Dry Top guild, and with the Megaserver improvements you will automatically be grouped together.

NO. You should not have to pre-plan to do basic content. The game should link you up casually.

This thread sounds like entitled whining. You want something, but don’t want to do the work to get it there. I’m on NA as well and in TTS and there are several days we get together and organize up. But we put the work in to make the map and then make it work. Sounds like you want to load in to a map already in progress (they are out there by the way), but you likely won’t find one because we fill the maps to keep the events running. As others said you have little wiggle room for mistakes in the events to hit Favour level 6.

The game shouldn’t put you at the best reward cycle “casually” because it takes more than casual coordination to get it there. If you want the casual matching deal with T4 and the occasional lucky T5. If you want T6 you gotta put the work in to get it there and that doesn’t include just showing up and running the events. It also requires you to communicate and get involved in setting it up and yes even scheduling a time and place where you can find the people you need.

This thread sounds like entitled whining. You want something, but don’t want to do the work to get it there.

I don’t think you’re paying attention. I have never even once hinted for a second that I was not willing to do the work. Nobody in this thread has. All I’ve asked for is that the work I put in be fairly rewarded every time I log into the map, rather than my rewards and experience in playing the map be determined by the luck of whether I end up with like-minded and similarly capable players.

I’m on NA as well and in TTS and there are several days we get together and organize up.

Have you checked TTS lately? The Dry Top channel has been empty every night for the past couple weeks. Not just “not many on,” completely 100% empty. It was working fine a few weeks back, although it had been trickling down for a couple weeks before that, but now it is dead. I’m looking at it right now. Nothing.

Sounds like you want to load in to a map already in progress (they are out there by the way), but you likely won’t find one because we fill the maps to keep the events running.

I’m willing to start at the xx:00 mark, or slightly before it if I can find a working map, I’m even willing to join in before that on a map with a reasonable chance of success, but it’s very difficult, if not impossible to tell whether a map will ever get their kitten together, you can go several rounds in a row and never get above T4.

As others said you have little wiggle room for mistakes in the events to hit Favour level 6.

There’s plenty of wiggle room, actually, you can skip about a half dozen evens completely or miss even more bonuses than that, you just need to make sure that all the events have attempts made on them at once, which most maps can’t manage.

The game shouldn’t put you at the best reward cycle “casually” because it takes more than casual coordination to get it there. If you want the casual matching deal with T4 and the occasional lucky T5. If you want T6 you gotta put the work in to get it there and that doesn’t include just showing up and running the events. It also requires you to communicate and get involved in setting it up and yes even scheduling a time and place where you can find the people you need.

A player does not deserve better rewards for being on a coordinated map than for being on an uncoordinated map. That’s just a misplaced sense of entitlement. You only deserve to be rewarded for how well you do, and doing well on a coordinated map should not reward more than doing equally well on any random map in which players are trying to succeed.

Yes a player does, deserve teh better rewards. How often are you going to reandomly spawn into an alreadt T6 map? Almost never. The means the people that were on that map already MADE it T6. Trying to succeed doesn’t make you a winner.

Like I said, you don’t want to do what it takes to get to where you want to be. That is simply your problem. Why shouldn’t you have to schedule? Why shouldn’t you have to help organize? Doing the events themselves doesn’t not make up for the entire process of getting to the best reward. The lower rewards aren’t much worse so I don’t understand what the big deal is.

And yes I rep TTS 100% of the time as its my main guild, and I know the TS has been “lacking” in people in the Dry Top room, but it doesn’t stop you from going into the general chats when there isn’t a raid going on and asking if anyone wants to do Dry Top. Many of us do like to do dry top! Just because someone’s not already doing it doesn’t mean we aren’t interested. Take initiative.

Yes a player does, deserve teh better rewards. How often are you going to reandomly spawn into an alreadt T6 map? Almost never. The means the people that were on that map already MADE it T6. Trying to succeed doesn’t make you a winner.

In most cases the people actually on a T6 map didn’t do anything to make it a T6 map. someone did, many hours before, and it’s kept rolling since. I can see there being a justification for extra rewards for that first noble leader who led the map to T6 capability, but why do people who just taxi in to a fully functioning T6 map deserve better rewards than players who do the exact same roles on a half-baked T4 map?

In any case, you can spend 3-4 hours trying to whip a T4 map into a T6 one and get nothing for it. the point is that you should NEVER have to do this. It is BAD DESIGN that requires it of anyone, and the design should be fixed to not require it.

Why shouldn’t you have to schedule? Why shouldn’t you have to help organize?

I tag up and lead players around where I can, but it’s not enough if the rest of the map isn’t into it. Needing to schedule play time is just ridiculous, the game should be ready for you when you are ready for it, it is an entertainment product, not a job.

And yes I rep TTS 100% of the time as its my main guild, and I know the TS has been “lacking” in people in the Dry Top room, but it doesn’t stop you from going into the general chats when there isn’t a raid going on and asking if anyone wants to do Dry Top. Many of us do like to do dry top! Just because someone’s not already doing it doesn’t mean we aren’t interested. Take initiative.

Even if you believe it’s possible, when the right conditions come together, to maybe, after hours of work, manage a single T6 run, that’s just not good enough. The critical mass was right a few weeks back, when you could log in, open up TS or LFG and immediately find a taxi into a T6 map, do your part and get fairly consistent T5-6 for an hour or two, and then move on. There were likely at least 3-4 different T6 maps in operation at any given time, as to the current situation of maybe one going on someplace, but more likely just a bunch of T4-5s.

That critical mass is now GONE, and ANet needs to make some changes to bring it back, to make it an outcome that is more likely to result from the current level of player engagement.