Guild Wars 2

So after spending a week on vacation, my girlfriend and I had a chance to check out the new Living Story. After a day of playing, I am fairly convinced this will be the first time in this game when I am unable to complete all the Living Story achievements.

What’s worse, is this will probably be the first time I don’t get to actually see the end of the story.

Firstly. Despite the repeated bug reports to ANet regarding the glitch in Goemm’s Lab, they have decided to add an achievement at the end of this JP. I was able to get my way though, but only after repeated attempts and restarts. This took way too much time, not due to difficulty, but due to glitchy, unfixed bugs.

Second. Putting any achievement for a Living Story in the Eternal Battlegrounds JP is asinine. This JP is hard enough at the best of times let alone requiring more players to be in there. If the intention is to get players into WvW, this is not going to be a very good first impression.

I’m not sure I can even stand to try that JP again.

Finally. The dungeon is ridiculous. I go from doing pretty well in PvE, to being insta-killed in this dungeon. I just spent three…yes, three hours with a group that has had little issues in the past doing dungeons, and we never did beat Mai.

The amount of insta-killing mechanics in this dungeon means that not only can I not finish it to see the story, but even considering the achievements…..forget it.

I realize some are going to agree with me, and some are not. I understand that some are going to call me a noob, or whatever, but the simple fact is that I’m getting very tired of the inconsistency and expectations of these Living Story updates.

ANet seems to be in reactive mode, rather than pro-active mode. They release content, people voice criticism, and ANet responds by overcompensating. They just can’t seem to find a balance for all players. It’s either too hard, too easy, too long, too short, etc.

Either way. As much as I would like to see the end of this story, I think I may have to resort to checking it out on YouTube.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

What’s worse, is this will probably be the first time I don’t get to actually see the end of the story.

This.

:(

Might I suggest not building for zerker in the dungeon?

I have yet to find a single insta-kill thing in the dungeon so maybe your stats are simply not suited for it?

Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that the living story does NOT end with the dungeon, but rather with another step that is not yet released (and probably won’t require completion of the dungeon first, but time will tell)

There is no way to balance difficulty for all players. That’s impossible. Up to this point dungeons have all been very easy, only variation being length. It’s about time there was something fun and challenging in over. (Molten facility was fun and epic but not hard) I’m sorry you found this difficult, but many players have been waiting almost a year for a bit of a challenge.

As a sidenote I’m a casual and with a couple wipes my guild finished first try, less than 1.5 hours. It’s not that hard.

Shemsu.8721:

As a sidenote I’m a casual and with a couple wipes my guild finished first try, less than 1.5 hours. It’s not that hard.

That’s great for you that that worked out for you, but please refrain from making this a general statement. Maybe “It’s not that hard” for you – but I just gave up after over three hours (with my established dungeon group of players) because we ran out of time.

lordkrall.7241:

Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that the living story does NOT end with the dungeon, but rather with another step that is not yet released (and probably won’t require completion of the dungeon first, but time will tell)

Perhaps not, but not being able to complete it is kinda like walking out in the middle of a movie because that taco you ate a few hours earlier has come back with a vengeance. Sure, I may be able to see the end, but with a giant chunk missing.

lordkrall.7241:

Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that the living story does NOT end with the dungeon, but rather with another step that is not yet released (and probably won’t require completion of the dungeon first, but time will tell)

Yes, might or might not, however if previous living chapters are anything to go by, you probably won’t be able to talk to Mai in her cell unless you’ve put her there.

So I guess I won’t get my hopes up.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

That’s great for you that that worked out for you, but please refrain from making this a general statement. Maybe “It’s not that hard” for you – but I just gave up after over three hours (with my established dungeon group of players) because we ran out of time.

And this might very well be the reason why people are having a hard time.
They go towards the dungeon thinking it is the same as all other dungeons where simply zerk it down is the way to go.
That is clearly not the way to do this dungeon so even “established groups” might have issues if they don’t adapt to the situation.

lordkrall.7241:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

That’s great for you that that worked out for you, but please refrain from making this a general statement. Maybe “It’s not that hard” for you – but I just gave up after over three hours (with my established dungeon group of players) because we ran out of time.

And this might very well be the reason why people are having a hard time.
They go towards the dungeon thinking it is the same as all other dungeons where simply zerk it down is the way to go.
That is clearly not the way to do this dungeon so even “established groups” might have issues if they don’t adapt to the situation.

Why does everybody assume that we run a zerker group? For the record: we don’t.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Why does everybody assume that we run a zerker group? For the record: we don’t.

I am not assuming, I am simply stating that attacking this dungeon the way you would the others might not work.

The main issue is that the majority of dungeons don’t really require much thinking, and therefore when a dungeon comes along that actually require people to think, react and work together it seems “impossible” simply because people are not used to it.

lordkrall.7241:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

That’s great for you that that worked out for you, but please refrain from making this a general statement. Maybe “It’s not that hard” for you – but I just gave up after over three hours (with my established dungeon group of players) because we ran out of time.

And this might very well be the reason why people are having a hard time.
They go towards the dungeon thinking it is the same as all other dungeons where simply zerk it down is the way to go.
That is clearly not the way to do this dungeon so even “established groups” might have issues if they don’t adapt to the situation.

Sorry, but this group is amazing because of our ability to have fun, and work together. We have had no issues with any other dungeons. We figure out the mechanics, and work quite well at solving them.

This however was beyond our abilities. We all knew what to do, but simply couldn’t do it. After hours of trying we got sick of trying and gave up. We knew the mechanics, we knew what the solution was, but we couldn’t make it happen.

EDIT: Look at it this way. Say the solution to a boss fight is to avoid the fire. Yet, the fire covers the entire floor at points in the fight. That’s all fine, unless the fire kills the player so fast they don’t have time to avoid it, and when downed, are killed.

So unless you’re extremely lucky, or very good…l knowing what to do makes little difference. Factor in the time it take to restart and redo the entire fight, and it becomes more frustrating than it’s worth.

While I appreciate your feedback, to generalize and assume that we’re just “not good enough” to complete the dungeon is a tad insulting.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Sorry, but this group is amazing because of our ability to have fun, and work together. We have had no issues with any other dungeons. We figure out the mechanics, and work quite well at solving them.

This however was beyond our abilities. We all knew what to do, but simply couldn’t do it. After hours of trying we got sick of trying and gave up. We knew the mechanics, we knew what the solution was, but we couldn’t make it happen.

While I appreciate your feedback, to generalize and assume that we’re just “not good enough” to complete the dungeon is a tad insulting.

And yet it is fully possible to complete the dungeon with a pug-group, even for a average player as myself.

Which part is it that is currently the issue?

If you knew what was happening and what to do but yet couldn’t doing there were clearly something done wrong somewhere.

Edit for the edit: But thats the thing though: Unless you stand still (or have virtually no vitality) you won’t die from the fire. You should be fully able to dodge/move away from it even if taking a hit or two.

You have to remember that because of the golem pull for Frizz and the 1 minute cannonfire against Mai, luck plays a role in this. The second one person gets unlucky, it can drag down the rest of the party fast. For example, in one attempt against Mai we lost our thief, and we started losing more and more people afterwards. Once you lose the groove and can’t revive a fallen ally, you can’t get it back in this dungeon.

It’s easy to say “Then just don’t die” and then put it into practice. One person gets hit with too many cannonballs, they’re gone. If they get unlucky and run out of evade and get shoehorned into a cannonfire barrage, they’re downed and dead. If they get unlucky and lag at this part, they’re most likely downed and dead.

Shemsu.8721:

Molten facility was fun and epic but not hard

That’s exactly what temporary content should be: fun and epic, but not excessively hard.

Let this dungeon be hard when it becomes a fractal (as they have been hinting it will become). While it’s temporary, it should be doable by an average group with any class composition. Think of it as advertisement for the future fractal.

lordkrall.7241:

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Sorry, but this group is amazing because of our ability to have fun, and work together. We have had no issues with any other dungeons. We figure out the mechanics, and work quite well at solving them.

This however was beyond our abilities. We all knew what to do, but simply couldn’t do it. After hours of trying we got sick of trying and gave up. We knew the mechanics, we knew what the solution was, but we couldn’t make it happen.

While I appreciate your feedback, to generalize and assume that we’re just “not good enough” to complete the dungeon is a tad insulting.

And yet it is fully possible to complete the dungeon with a pug-group, even for a average player as myself.

Which part is it that is currently the issue?

If you knew what was happening and what to do but yet couldn’t doing there were clearly something done wrong somewhere.

The part that is the issue is that ANet’s solution to difficulty is to up the damage and things than damage, to the point where players spend more time getting knocked down, than actually playing.

For example. When fighting Mai, I am running around avoiding getting bombed because the bombs can knock off a bunch of my damage, making me unable to effectively fight Mai (when shields are down). The problem is, that if I stray too far, she will shadow lunge at me, and insta-kill me.

So, while I understand what to do…I am unable to complete the task because despite doing what is needed, the mechanics have been designed so unless I am of a specific build, level, or whatever….I run the risk of instantly dying.

Then, the problem is that my group, who is trying their best to not die as well, are tasked with trying to get me back up. The problem is that the fight has almost no pauses, so they risk getting killed trying to get me up.

Then, even if they get me up. I’m so low on HP, that trying to recover, while avoiding another insta-kill from Mai, long enough to get to the cannon fire….which insta-kills me.

So, while you may argue that suddenly my build sucks (even though I’ve been able to get through almost all the other content), the fact is that the mechanics are too unforgiving for me to be able to complete the dungeon. I’m not sure what I could do beyond being forced to create another class.

trickfred.4097:

Shemsu.8721:

Molten facility was fun and epic but not hard

That’s exactly what temporary content should be: fun and epic, but not excessively hard.

Let this dungeon be hard when it becomes a fractal (as they have been hinting it will become). While it’s temporary, it should be doable by an average group with any class composition. Think of it as advertisement for the future fractal.

I couldn’t agree more.

trickfred.4097:

Shemsu.8721:

Molten facility was fun and epic but not hard

That’s exactly what temporary content should be: fun and epic, but not excessively hard.

Let this dungeon be hard when it becomes a fractal (as they have been hinting it will become). While it’s temporary, it should be doable by an average group with any class composition. Think of it as advertisement for the future fractal.

I could not agree more.

I understand that there are better-than-average players who want harder-than-average content, and this is fine, but the living story is not the place for such content. Fractals were designed to accommodate difficulty levels from “easy” all the way to “impossible”.

Completing the story part of the living story however should be possible for the vast majority of the player base – including casual players, including players that don’t have a level 80 yet, including players that don’t have a guardian to switch to, and including colour-blind players. I don’t think this is an unreasonable request.

well, you can always roleplay as “the lionguard captured mai trin”, instead of “i captured mai trin”, since the dungeon itself doesn’t have much story, and the final story cutscene takes place outside of it (and isn’t even available).

BrunoBRS.5178:

well, you can always roleplay as “the lionguard captured mai trin”, instead of “i captured mai trin”, since the dungeon itself doesn’t have much story, and the final story cutscene takes place outside of it (and isn’t even available).

That thought had occurred to me, too, but sitting in the other room pretending to have played part of the game is not really my idea of playing the game, if you know what I mean.

Sorry, I know that you’re trying to help (and I appreciate it). I’m sure I’ll find a solution for my “head-canon”, but that doesn’t change the fact that I missed out on part of the story.

trickfred.4097:

Shemsu.8721:

Molten facility was fun and epic but not hard

That’s exactly what temporary content should be: fun and epic, but not excessively hard.

Let this dungeon be hard when it becomes a fractal (as they have been hinting it will become). While it’s temporary, it should be doable by an average group with any class composition. Think of it as advertisement for the future fractal.

My thoughts exactly.

I have nothing against the current dungeon. But for LS content it seems like a bad idea. MF was perfect for a LS dungeon imo; not too long, boss took maybe a wipe or two to figure out and didn’t last 15+ minutes, could take lowbies with you and not hurt the group.

I was expecting a dungeon not a raid-like encounter.

BrunoBRS.5178:

well, you can always roleplay as “the lionguard captured mai trin”, instead of “i captured mai trin”, since the dungeon itself doesn’t have much story, and the final story cutscene takes place outside of it (and isn’t even available).

And kiel gets all the credit for what you do. COUGHTRAHEARNEWITHBOOBSCOUGH

@BackToOP
Regardless, this dungeon is actually very easy and all of your complaints just sound like you whining for the sake of whining. It’s not as if there aren’t 40 threads about what’s wrong with this living story for this person and that person, that and you brought nothing new to the table.

The Goemm’s lab bug? Okay, there are people willing to port you there.

WvW Jp? If you hate dying THAT much, just don’t do it. You don’t NEED to 100% it, and if you do, like psuedo-OCD kicking in, then you’d just do it without complaint.

The dungeon is actually really refreshing. Coming from a zerk Mesmer, I have actually found a reason to change up my build (actually, lack thereof in my case specifically).

Zerking in this dungeon is very, very bad. In fact, I run a spinoff of condi-zerk so I still have no defense, yet I’m one of the tankiest people in all the groups that I run. Of course, I still prefer to have a Guardian in the group just so that Mai is easier, but the dungeon is a SKILL dungeon, not a DAMAGE dungeon. You should be willing to take 1-2 hours for each run (it can go by relatively fast and be ~30-45 minutes, but don’t expect that). It’s better to take it slow and not die than to try and rush it like everything else and die. That’s one of the great things about this dungeon. It punishes you for zerking. Yes, I agree the first 8 hours of me inside the dungeon were painful, but once I started to get the hang of it, it became more and more FUN and EASY. And no, those 8 hours weren’t just 8 hours of me wiping constantly, I finished it 3 times in those 8 hours, which is slow, but it was great practice.

This isn’t just a run and spank dungeon. It’s a dungeon where you need to practice and use your skill as an individual player to help the group proceed. (In the boss fights, you typically don’t res. That says something about the dungeon, but it’s because you’ll put yourself in danger if you try to res. Of course, during Mai and Horrik, you NEED to res, but you can’t res during the barrage.)

Esplen.3940:

Yes, I agree the first 8 hours of me inside the dungeon were painful, but once I started to get the hang of it, it became more and more FUN and EASY. And no, those 8 hours weren’t just 8 hours of me wiping constantly, I finished it 3 times in those 8 hours, which is slow, but it was great practice.

I think this statement says more about my point than I ever could.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

So after spending a week on vacation, my girlfriend and I had a chance to check out the new Living Story. After a day of playing, I am fairly convinced this will be the first time in this game when I am unable to complete all the Living Story achievements.

What’s worse, is this will probably be the first time I don’t get to actually see the end of the story.

If you still need the dungeon and play on [EU] i can arrange something
and if you are as half decent as you say, then completing the dungeon
for you and your gf shouldn’t be a problem. The “faster than light” achievement
will depend on your skill of dodging golem pulls and i’m pretty sure the speedkill
might not be a good idea to try but i’m confident that completing the dungeon,
maybe with the personal space achievement, is nothing completely unrealistic,
even if the two of you turn out to be “not so pro” :P

Just mail me ingame.

in addition to the poster above me If you play na server, I’d be happy to help you get thru it. If this guy can do it solo,I’m sure we all can manage in a full group.

In regards to the dungeon, it is nowhere near as difficult as you are making it sound.
If you claim that all of you are doing it right and that you did it for 3 hours and still failed, then obviously you are not doing it right. I have gotten every single achievement with pugs + 1 guild member, where everybody actually knew what they were doing. Occasionally someone does make a mistake, and we wipe, but we mostly manage it without a single wipe, so maybe I can offer you a bit of advice on the bosses. (This is how I managed to do it, it may not be the most optimal, or the best, nor am I claiming so, just trying to help out).

Not going to offer any advice on thrash because I’d hope nobody wipes on those.

Frizz:
If you want to ensure that your party does not take additional damage during the laser phases, make sure you kill the 4 inquest adds before you dps fizz down to 75%.

The first laser phase can be “skipped” entirely by grouping on the golem that goes active (left of the exit door) and focusing your DPS on it the moment it goes active. It should die relatively fast before the first laser reaches your party.

The second phase can also be done relatively fast as long as your party groups in the same section. (This is really important as it stops the golems from switching aggro to different people in different sections, and it will take a much longer time to kill).

For the third phase, the sequence goes a bit like this – box until the low laser passes, run across half the room, box until the lower laser passes again, run across half the room again. The key to this phase is not to stop moving, and never to sit on the box unless you are avoiding the low laser. You should always be on the ground. When you are on the ground, make sure that you run close to the centre (where frizz is standing). My reasoning for this is that in case a golem gets charged and pulls you, it is much easier to dodge/run away from the lasers when you are in the centre (imagine a running track, except the lasers don’t take the outer tracks into account, and they will catch up to you faster if you run on the outer edge). While you do want to try to bring one golem down as soon as possible, remember that it is pointless to attack them when they are charged up, so constantly check if your target or the other golem is charged, and switch targets appropriately. Occasionally one or two will get downed here, but once you are midway in phase 3, it’s possible to 3 man, 2 man or even solo it.

Mai:
You will want to group up for her, but NOT stack. Her bleed attacks in a cone, so if you all stack on the same spot, you will all get wiped. The key is to group close to her and surround her. That way, horrik’s cannons will also always aim in your general direction, making it a lot easier to lure her into the static AOE to bring her shields down. A guardian would be nice, but in no way mandatory. If you have water fields, you can also blast them to keep the party sustained, do NOT run away from mai if you are low, as she WILL shadowstep to you and down you. If possible, get your two tankiest people to stay a little bit further from the rest of the party (just slightly) so that they can take turns to eat the shadowsteps.

During the barrage, you have to understand that the cannons are targeted towards players. There are two methods to do this, if you have a very co-ordinated group, you can run together and the path ahead will always be clear. However, I wouldn’t recommend doing this in a pug as it only takes one person to lose co-ordination for your group to get killed this method.

Another method you can use is to spread out, and avoid the cannons in your own general area, while sticking to it. When you do this, one person will not get targeted by cannons, and you don’t have to be worried about another player running across your area and having to avoid their cannons as well. Another key is to keep moving. Your spot may be untargeted right now, but in another second, it will NOT be safe. So if you do have a second to breathe, look around you, be aware of your surroundings and plan ahead where you are going to move next. Don’t clump together when you are avoiding the cannons individually and there should be no reason for more than 1 or 2 players (mistakes happen) to die. Do not ever try to res people during cannons as it will be a waste of time and probably cause you to get downed yourself. Wait till mai and horrik are back before ressing your dead. 2 to res, 1 to keep mai busy, but you have to be aware that she will switch aggro, so adapt accordingly.

Like I said earlier, this is just the way I do it with my groups, others may do it differently, or better, but using this we seldom wipe and mai dies in < 15 minutes as well, which should be sufficient for your achievements, or to at least see the end of the dungeon. Hope it helps, just keep in mind that a lot of people find this dungeon very doable.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

lordkrall.7241:

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Sorry, but this group is amazing because of our ability to have fun, and work together. We have had no issues with any other dungeons. We figure out the mechanics, and work quite well at solving them.

This however was beyond our abilities. We all knew what to do, but simply couldn’t do it. After hours of trying we got sick of trying and gave up. We knew the mechanics, we knew what the solution was, but we couldn’t make it happen.

While I appreciate your feedback, to generalize and assume that we’re just “not good enough” to complete the dungeon is a tad insulting.

And yet it is fully possible to complete the dungeon with a pug-group, even for a average player as myself.

Which part is it that is currently the issue?

If you knew what was happening and what to do but yet couldn’t doing there were clearly something done wrong somewhere.

The part that is the issue is that ANet’s solution to difficulty is to up the damage and things than damage, to the point where players spend more time getting knocked down, than actually playing.

For example. When fighting Mai, I am running around avoiding getting bombed because the bombs can knock off a bunch of my damage, making me unable to effectively fight Mai (when shields are down). The problem is, that if I stray too far, she will shadow lunge at me, and insta-kill me.

So, while I understand what to do…I am unable to complete the task because despite doing what is needed, the mechanics have been designed so unless I am of a specific build, level, or whatever….I run the risk of instantly dying.

Then, the problem is that my group, who is trying their best to not die as well, are tasked with trying to get me back up. The problem is that the fight has almost no pauses, so they risk getting killed trying to get me up.

Then, even if they get me up. I’m so low on HP, that trying to recover, while avoiding another insta-kill from Mai, long enough to get to the cannon fire….which insta-kills me.

So, while you may argue that suddenly my build sucks (even though I’ve been able to get through almost all the other content), the fact is that the mechanics are too unforgiving for me to be able to complete the dungeon. I’m not sure what I could do beyond being forced to create another class.

Mate, really. You don’t know what you’re doing.

Stop trying to make the game easier and just work at being a competent player. I know it’s frustrating that you failed for 3 hours, but that isn’t a problem with the game- it’s a problem with you and your team.

The mechanics aren’t cheap, or random, they’re just not easy enough that mashing random keys would allow victory.

Risingashes.8694:

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

lordkrall.7241:

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Sorry, but this group is amazing because of our ability to have fun, and work together. We have had no issues with any other dungeons. We figure out the mechanics, and work quite well at solving them.

This however was beyond our abilities. We all knew what to do, but simply couldn’t do it. After hours of trying we got sick of trying and gave up. We knew the mechanics, we knew what the solution was, but we couldn’t make it happen.

While I appreciate your feedback, to generalize and assume that we’re just “not good enough” to complete the dungeon is a tad insulting.

And yet it is fully possible to complete the dungeon with a pug-group, even for a average player as myself.

Which part is it that is currently the issue?

If you knew what was happening and what to do but yet couldn’t doing there were clearly something done wrong somewhere.

The part that is the issue is that ANet’s solution to difficulty is to up the damage and things than damage, to the point where players spend more time getting knocked down, than actually playing.

For example. When fighting Mai, I am running around avoiding getting bombed because the bombs can knock off a bunch of my damage, making me unable to effectively fight Mai (when shields are down). The problem is, that if I stray too far, she will shadow lunge at me, and insta-kill me.

So, while I understand what to do…I am unable to complete the task because despite doing what is needed, the mechanics have been designed so unless I am of a specific build, level, or whatever….I run the risk of instantly dying.

Then, the problem is that my group, who is trying their best to not die as well, are tasked with trying to get me back up. The problem is that the fight has almost no pauses, so they risk getting killed trying to get me up.

Then, even if they get me up. I’m so low on HP, that trying to recover, while avoiding another insta-kill from Mai, long enough to get to the cannon fire….which insta-kills me.

So, while you may argue that suddenly my build sucks (even though I’ve been able to get through almost all the other content), the fact is that the mechanics are too unforgiving for me to be able to complete the dungeon. I’m not sure what I could do beyond being forced to create another class.

Mate, really. You don’t know what you’re doing.

Stop trying to make the game easier and just work at being a competent player. I know it’s frustrating that you failed for 3 hours, but that isn’t a problem with the game- it’s a problem with you and your team.

The mechanics aren’t cheap, or random, they’re just not easy enough that mashing random keys would allow victory.

Aka, this dungeon was made to put Zerker players back in line.

Esplen.3940:

Aka, this dungeon was made to put Zerker players back in line.

Stop making excuses. I’m full zerk, I did the instance in pugs full of fairly bad players. Gear isn’t the problem, the problem is that people (and you) are blaming outside factors for their failure instead of trying to use the tools available to them to beat what is in front of them.

Risingashes.8694:

Esplen.3940:

Aka, this dungeon was made to put Zerker players back in line.

Stop making excuses. I’m full zerk, I did the instance in pugs full of fairly bad players. Gear isn’t the problem, the problem is that people (and you) are blaming outside factors for their failure instead of trying to use the tools available to them to beat what is in front of them.

It’s funny that you don’t think I’m not a zerk player. When I say zerk it’s with the same disdain and contempt that I say zerg with. It’s not the gear that I care about, it’s the skill, and zerk gear does not punish a player for not knowing what to do. Neither does zerging for that matter. But in this specific dungeon, not knowing what to do is the worst thing you can possibly do.

I seriously CAN’T UNDERSTAND why people are blaming the dungeon for their own incompetence. I waited a bit before doing the dungeon so I can find people who did it earlier, because I know from myself (nothing narcissistic here, just self-confidence) that I can adapt to a situation quickly and figure out what is to do. So I found a group, started and we died 1 time at the Champion (forgot his name) and 1 time at the Final Fight with Mai. That’s all, it took roughly an hour. The Dungeon is very well designed and balanced. I also was in full zerker build, and didn’t have any trouble staying alive (Warrior).

Get your own kitten together before blaming mechanics, it’s like blaming the weather that you are soaked because you left the house without an umbrella on a rainy day.

Main problem is Content design but i don’t think designers.

Since ArenaNet have Jeff Grubb.

Jeff Grubb’s Wiki

So whats the problem ?

Many people are confusing the argument “hard because of bad design” with “hard means bad design.” .

The difficulty is not the problem — the source of the difficulty is what makes it a problem, “hard because of bad design”.

• In general, try to punish the gamer regularly for absolutely no reason, just because you can?

• Make the gamer collect an arbitrary amount of resources for no reward, just to make the game longer?

• Make the collection as trivial as possible. For the worst effect, let him collect resources several times during the game, always increasing the amount needed?

Anyway, if you ask me we are nothing worry about so ArenaNet made his bed now he must sleep in it.

azazil.9541:

Main problem is Content design but i don’t think designers.

Since ArenaNet have Jeff Grubb.

Jeff Grubb’s Wiki

So whats the problem ?

Many people are confusing the argument “hard because of bad design” with “hard means bad design.” .

The difficulty is not the problem — the source of the difficulty is what makes it a problem, “hard because of bad design”.

• In general, try to punish the gamer regularly for absolutely no reason, just because you can?

• Make the gamer collect an arbitrary amount of resources for no reward, just to make the game longer?

• Make the collection as trivial as possible. For the worst effect, let him collect resources several times during the game, always increasing the amount needed?

Anyway, if you ask me we are nothing worry about so ArenaNet made his bed now he must sleep in it.

I would agree with you on the asinine part of the “kills achievements”. I absolute hate they make you farm 500 of this or that for a achievement. That is not a achievement.

However, I do applaud them on the new dungeon. In all honesty, I find it quite entertaining and rewarding. 1g 13 silver a run just for finishing is not bad considering the time invest you have to put in (this is not including drops).

Although to the claim of the original poster of things “one shoting”… I can understand why you think that, but it is more than likely the mobs just spiking one person down. This will happen if someone goes about 600 units ahead of the group and aggro them all at once. If that is not what you are talking about but rather the “Faster than Light” part of the dungeon… That just comes down to timing and having stability or just dodge rolling.

I find the new dungeon more fun than most of the old ones, but I am beginning to think I am the only one :/.

Also, the Thugs (which almost EVERY group leaves alive until the end) give Fury, Might, and Swiftness to all other mobs even though they are NEVER Veterans themselves. It’s best to get rid of them first so you don’t get spiked by a SINGLE STACK OF CONFUSION from the Veteran mobs that now have 25 stacks of might.

@Vanthian.9267

No i’m with you with that. AR is fun all the way and completed a lot of times already but my point is it not for everyone.

And also my words at my previous post not only for AR or content itself but for whole game.

@Azazil

My mistake xP. I didn’t read the entire thread, just posts that caught my attention, as my eyes started to hurt half way through….. Didn’t mean the comment in a bad way, just stating my opinion!

For what it’s worth there’s not actually much story in the dungeon. The cut scenes are more introductions to the boss fights, the only thing that relates to the wider Sky Pirates/Living Story plot is one line from Mai.

Unless the future story sections do require you to finish the dungeon (and I think that’s unlikely) you haven’t really missed anything except a few achievements.

I’m not sure you guys are getting it here.

This isn’t about how difficult it is, it’s about how accessible it is for all players, given the short amount of time it’s available.

I don’t have 8 hours to dedicate to a single dungeon in addition to finding stashes, killing pirates, doing monthlies/dailies, completing Dragon Bash, and/or anything else I want to do in game.

You can’t take this dungeon out of context of the rest of the game. I’m glad it’s a challenge for some of you, but for many players, the time requirements are beyond what is reasonable, which means they (myself included) will miss out on parts of the story.

You can continue telling me how much you think my group and I suck at GW2, but unless ANet is willing to allow us weeks/months to learn/level up, we have a problem.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Esplen.3940:

Yes, I agree the first 8 hours of me inside the dungeon were painful, but once I started to get the hang of it, it became more and more FUN and EASY. And no, those 8 hours weren’t just 8 hours of me wiping constantly, I finished it 3 times in those 8 hours, which is slow, but it was great practice.

I think this statement says more about my point than I ever could.

Yep.

So, you basically want people to get access to every achievement and thing in the game by simply logging in?

Because that is what would be required for some people to access everything.
They can’t really create the game around people that only have 1 hours playtime each day, when clearly a rather big part of the playerbase have quite a few hours.

Risingashes.8694:

Esplen.3940:

Aka, this dungeon was made to put Zerker players back in line.

Stop making excuses. I’m full zerk, I did the instance in pugs full of fairly bad players. Gear isn’t the problem, the problem is that people (and you) are blaming outside factors for their failure instead of trying to use the tools available to them to beat what is in front of them.

This. I am a full zerk war and never had a problem with either the Mai Trin fight or Frizz. The key is movement and knowing the mechanics of the particular bossfight.
Stop assuming zerker=bad player. You can run every content in this game as full zerk
and succeed if you know what you are doing.

lordkrall.7241:

So, you basically want people to get access to every achievement and thing in the game by simply logging in?

Because that is what would be required for some people to access everything.
They can’t really create the game around people that only have 1 hours playtime each day, when clearly a rather big part of the playerbase have quite a few hours.

Why do your arguments always consist of totally absurd twisting of my words?

Perhaps take a moment and consider what I’m saying. Instead of twisting it around, try to think of some solutions.

Crovax.7854:

Risingashes.8694:

Esplen.3940:

Aka, this dungeon was made to put Zerker players back in line.

Stop making excuses. I’m full zerk, I did the instance in pugs full of fairly bad players. Gear isn’t the problem, the problem is that people (and you) are blaming outside factors for their failure instead of trying to use the tools available to them to beat what is in front of them.

This. I am a full zerk war and never had a problem with either the Mai Trin fight or Frizz. The key is movement and knowing the mechanics of the particular bossfight.
Stop assuming zerker=bad player. You can run every content in this game as full zerk
and succeed if you know what you are doing.

From what I’ve seen (in general, not just this dungeon) the problem isn’t so much with zerker builds as with people who have heard they’re the “best” build so they get it and don’t realise there is a specific playstyle/technique that goes with it.

Zerker is essentially a glass cannon build, you can survive but as you said you’ve got to move to do it. You can’t stand in attacks and let your health and armor soak it up because you don’t have enough. But a lot of people will try and do exactly that – or rush in ahead of the rest of their group like a certain WoW player and get themselves killed, then demand that the rest of the group either die too so they can WP or die trying to rez them.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Why do your arguments always consist of totally absurd twisting of my words?

Perhaps take a moment and consider what I’m saying. Instead of twisting it around, try to think of some solutions.

But isn’t that more or less what you are saying?
You talk about not tying achievements to “hard” stuff, because everyone should be able to get them. With that logic they would need to give people achievements by simply logging in, since all people can’t spend more than 10 minutes per day playing, and that is not nearly enough time to achieve anything really.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

lordkrall.7241:

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Sorry, but this group is amazing because of our ability to have fun, and work together. We have had no issues with any other dungeons. We figure out the mechanics, and work quite well at solving them.

This however was beyond our abilities. We all knew what to do, but simply couldn’t do it. After hours of trying we got sick of trying and gave up. We knew the mechanics, we knew what the solution was, but we couldn’t make it happen.

While I appreciate your feedback, to generalize and assume that we’re just “not good enough” to complete the dungeon is a tad insulting.

And yet it is fully possible to complete the dungeon with a pug-group, even for a average player as myself.

Which part is it that is currently the issue?

If you knew what was happening and what to do but yet couldn’t doing there were clearly something done wrong somewhere.

The part that is the issue is that ANet’s solution to difficulty is to up the damage and things than damage, to the point where players spend more time getting knocked down, than actually playing.

For example. When fighting Mai, I am running around avoiding getting bombed because the bombs can knock off a bunch of my damage, making me unable to effectively fight Mai (when shields are down). The problem is, that if I stray too far, she will shadow lunge at me, and insta-kill me.

So, while I understand what to do…I am unable to complete the task because despite doing what is needed, the mechanics have been designed so unless I am of a specific build, level, or whatever….I run the risk of instantly dying.

Then, the problem is that my group, who is trying their best to not die as well, are tasked with trying to get me back up. The problem is that the fight has almost no pauses, so they risk getting killed trying to get me up.

Then, even if they get me up. I’m so low on HP, that trying to recover, while avoiding another insta-kill from Mai, long enough to get to the cannon fire….which insta-kills me.

So, while you may argue that suddenly my build sucks (even though I’ve been able to get through almost all the other content), the fact is that the mechanics are too unforgiving for me to be able to complete the dungeon. I’m not sure what I could do beyond being forced to create another class.

There is your first issue.. Mai should not be able to 1 hit you.. yes she hits hard but this spells one thing only to me.. your build isn’t specced right for it, not the mechanics of the fight being bad.

Secondly if your group is running round like headless chickens avoiding cannon fire then expect the floor to become covered.. if you could relatively grouped and running the same direction you might find it more evadable.. you say your a decent group that work well together, so this should not of been to harder task to work out.

Thirdly if someone is unfortunate to run out of evades or find they have one hit stats during cannon fire.. don’t try ressing them while its still happening.. keep yourself alive and wait it out… then res the fallen but even then you should by now be aware that Mai will target you while ressing so be ready to evade or just keep ressing then running then repeat… A guardian tanking here for a bit is more than enough to get the dead raised. Its only more difficult when there is only one of you alive and trying to ress everyone… but that comes back to other things mentioned previously.

Honestly this is the first dungeon they have brought in that isn’t just a faceroll exercise to suit the zerker brigade it does require some tactic, some group behaviour and yes some luck and patience… nothing wrong with that in my eyes especially when PUGS’s are more than capable of completing it so easily.

Key requirements I found for this pretty early on… decent stats, know when to use your evades, group buffs/heals and make sure you have some stability and / or condition removal .. forewarned is forearmed. And please don’t tell me your class or classes cant have all these things… my little necro has failed it only twice and one of those was in the first 15mins, the second was actually last night, late and the group were too tired to try Mai a second time…. but no biggy, having things easily face rolled over and over gets old very quickly.. THIS GAME NEEDS MORE DIFFICULTY NOT LESS!

lordkrall.7241:

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Why do your arguments always consist of totally absurd twisting of my words?

Perhaps take a moment and consider what I’m saying. Instead of twisting it around, try to think of some solutions.

But isn’t that more or less what you are saying?
You talk about not tying achievements to “hard” stuff, because everyone should be able to get them. With that logic they would need to give people achievements by simply logging in, since all people can’t spend more than 10 minutes per day playing, and that is not nearly enough time to achieve anything really.

Now its only 10min per day?

Here is a potential, and one of the best solutions I’ve seen.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/3-Step-Solution-to-ALL-our-woes/

I’m saying that ANet shouldn’t just toss level 80 content in the game that requires a lot of time and dedication to learn and/or complete (in addition to everything else), then put a very short time limit on it.

There are a lot of different options they could consider here, and they have the game mechanics to do it.

Lvl 80 content? The dungeon upscales after all.

I am quite sure that I completed the dungeon in question with a lvl 48 ranger in the party, and that was a pug-group as well, so clearly it is fully possible to do it both without “lot of time” and lvl 80s.

lordkrall.7241:

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Why do your arguments always consist of totally absurd twisting of my words?

Perhaps take a moment and consider what I’m saying. Instead of twisting it around, try to think of some solutions.

But isn’t that more or less what you are saying?
You talk about not tying achievements to “hard” stuff, because everyone should be able to get them. With that logic they would need to give people achievements by simply logging in, since all people can’t spend more than 10 minutes per day playing, and that is not nearly enough time to achieve anything really.

The world isn’t black and white, and hard/easy is not an on/off switch.

Content will ALWAYS be too hard for some and too easy for others, and just right for some. Picture this as a curve right now. Are you seeing the curve? Good.

The trick is to implement something with a difficulty that falls in the comfort zone of the majority of players, so you get a nice curve with very few unhappy players on either end of the “too easy/too hard” scale.

The MF managed this. AR did not.

The AR content is too far on the right side of the scale, so in our curve,

• the few players who would find the MF to be a significant challenge and frustrating are now completely left out,
• the many players who found the MF to be a nice pastime are now significantly challenged and frustrated, and
• the few players who found the MF too easy are now happy.

Do you see the problem?

I don’t begrudge the hardcore players their challenging content. (And I believe, if dungeon expl. modes are beneath you, fractals will certainly allow you to go to your individual limits). But this is the living story. The content is tied to a story that is aimed at the entire player base, and is only here for a limited time (so some people just don’t have the time to go through the learning curve).

Who is right/wrong?

Obviously, nobody here is right/wrong. However: if you find the content too easy, that sucks for you, but you still get the achievements. If you find the content too hard, that also sucks for you, but you do not get the achievements.

Even if I personally found the AR easy as eating ice cream, I would still think that the latter outweighs the former.

Bloodstealer.5978:

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

lordkrall.7241:

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Sorry, but this group is amazing because of our ability to have fun, and work together. We have had no issues with any other dungeons. We figure out the mechanics, and work quite well at solving them.

This however was beyond our abilities. We all knew what to do, but simply couldn’t do it. After hours of trying we got sick of trying and gave up. We knew the mechanics, we knew what the solution was, but we couldn’t make it happen.

While I appreciate your feedback, to generalize and assume that we’re just “not good enough” to complete the dungeon is a tad insulting.

And yet it is fully possible to complete the dungeon with a pug-group, even for a average player as myself.

Which part is it that is currently the issue?

If you knew what was happening and what to do but yet couldn’t doing there were clearly something done wrong somewhere.

The part that is the issue is that ANet’s solution to difficulty is to up the damage and things than damage, to the point where players spend more time getting knocked down, than actually playing.

For example. When fighting Mai, I am running around avoiding getting bombed because the bombs can knock off a bunch of my damage, making me unable to effectively fight Mai (when shields are down). The problem is, that if I stray too far, she will shadow lunge at me, and insta-kill me.

So, while I understand what to do…I am unable to complete the task because despite doing what is needed, the mechanics have been designed so unless I am of a specific build, level, or whatever….I run the risk of instantly dying.

Then, the problem is that my group, who is trying their best to not die as well, are tasked with trying to get me back up. The problem is that the fight has almost no pauses, so they risk getting killed trying to get me up.

Then, even if they get me up. I’m so low on HP, that trying to recover, while avoiding another insta-kill from Mai, long enough to get to the cannon fire….which insta-kills me.

So, while you may argue that suddenly my build sucks (even though I’ve been able to get through almost all the other content), the fact is that the mechanics are too unforgiving for me to be able to complete the dungeon. I’m not sure what I could do beyond being forced to create another class.

There is your first issue.. Mai should not be able to 1 hit you.. yes she hits hard but this spells one thing only to me.. your build isn’t specced right for it, not the mechanics of the fight being bad.

Secondly if your group is running round like headless chickens avoiding cannon fire then expect the floor to become covered.. if you could relatively grouped and running the same direction you might find it more evadable.. you say your a decent group that work well together, so this should not of been to harder task to work out.

Thirdly if someone is unfortunate to run out of evades or find they have one hit stats during cannon fire.. don’t try ressing them while its still happening.. keep yourself alive and wait it out… then res the fallen but even then you should by now be aware that Mai will target you while ressing so be ready to evade or just keep ressing then running then repeat… A guardian tanking here for a bit is more than enough to get the dead raised. Its only more difficult when there is only one of you alive and trying to ress everyone… but that comes back to other things mentioned previously.

Honestly this is the first dungeon they have brought in that isn’t just a faceroll exercise to suit the zerker brigade it does require some tactic, some group behaviour and yes some luck and patience… nothing wrong with that in my eyes especially when PUGS’s are more than capable of completing it so easily.

Key requirements I found for this pretty early on… decent stats, know when to use your evades, group buffs/heals and make sure you have some stability and / or condition removal .. forewarned is forearmed. And please don’t tell me your class or classes cant have all these things… my little necro has failed it only twice and one of those was in the first 15mins, the second was actually last night, late and the group were too tired to try Mai a second time…. but no biggy, having things easily face rolled over and over gets old very quickly.. THIS GAME NEEDS MORE DIFFICULTY NOT LESS!

I appreciate the strategy, but it misses my point completely.

1. Not all players are equal

2. Not everyone has unlimited time to dedicate to one specific part of the game.

3. If I can’t complete the dungeon, I miss parts of the story.

@Crazylegsmurphy.6430

Your correct, all players are not equal, that’s exactly how it should be… I hated the Mad King Clock Tower cos it was just not suiting my play style.. but I worked at it until I adapted. This dungeon requires players to do the same.. maybe change your build a little maybe change your tactics.. either way its not a gimmee and should not be considered so. If you miss parts of the story then so be it, you simply are not up to it, no disrespect but that is not ANETs fault.

Sorry but it is you who is missing the point .. no content or achievement should be a gimmee.. you want that go find some P2W game that offers it.Why should something be dumbed down to accommodate you when many others have taken the time to learn it and adapt to it and overcome it.

Bloodstealer.5978:

There is your first issue.. Mai should not be able to 1 hit you.. yes she hits hard but this spells one thing only to me.. your build isn’t specced right for it, not the mechanics of the fight being bad.

Secondly if your group is running round like headless chickens avoiding cannon fire then expect the floor to become covered.. if you could relatively grouped and running the same direction you might find it more evadable.. you say your a decent group that work well together, so this should not of been to harder task to work out.

Thirdly if someone is unfortunate to run out of evades or find they have one hit stats during cannon fire.. don’t try ressing them while its still happening.. keep yourself alive and wait it out… then res the fallen but even then you should by now be aware that Mai will target you while ressing so be ready to evade or just keep ressing then running then repeat… A guardian tanking here for a bit is more than enough to get the dead raised. Its only more difficult when there is only one of you alive and trying to ress everyone… but that comes back to other things mentioned previously.

Honestly this is the first dungeon they have brought in that isn’t just a faceroll exercise to suit the zerker brigade it does require some tactic, some group behaviour and yes some luck and patience… nothing wrong with that in my eyes especially when PUGS’s are more than capable of completing it so easily.

Key requirements I found for this pretty early on… decent stats, know when to use your evades, group buffs/heals and make sure you have some stability and / or condition removal .. forewarned is forearmed. And please don’t tell me your class or classes cant have all these things… my little necro has failed it only twice and one of those was in the first 15mins, the second was actually last night, late and the group were too tired to try Mai a second time…. but no biggy, having things easily face rolled over and over gets old very quickly.. THIS GAME NEEDS MORE DIFFICULTY NOT LESS!

Mai Trin can’t onehit anybody who is 80 and at least decently geared. I have almost no
additional vit or tough and she does about 4k with her teleportshot.

Secondly: Mai Train always targets the person furthest from her and she only performs
this attack right after her spin that shoots lightning at everyone.What i normally do
is run with axe/shield and when she does her spin i run away from the party,
then block her shot with my shield #5, the next one i mitigate with endure pain,
which gives enough time for shield #5 to recharge and block a third attack.
She does not prioritize ressing people.

Her other attacks do almost no damage. The real threat comes from bleeding
so cond removal is a must have. As a warrior you should take “shake it off”, which helps
greatly for reviving someone who is beaten on by her swashbuckling move, which stacks 25x bleed. Just pop it and they are all gone.

For the barrage phase i normally tell the group beforehand to
“stack on me and run clockwise”. Additionally someone should put a target marker
on your teams head runner for easy reference. Permaswiftness is key here,
otherwise you won’t be able to outrun the barrage.

The cannon attacks while Mai Trin and Horrik are on the players level does only
3k damage and adds a moderate burn, so nothing to worry about unless you
have low health.

Remember: When you know how a boss works you can easily abuse that.
Try to deliberately run away from her and block the portshots, as those are her strongest attack and the reason for abot 90% of wipes in this encounter.