Guild Wars 2

It was mumble, but yes. It’s literally as close to impossible as it gets right now. Chances are you can only do this event at like 3am because the rest of the time you just have randoms running around filling your player slots. Eventually you’ll hit the 150 people cap and get people dumped into overflows, effectively failing the event.

Good thing you can use the new LFG tool….. wait.

Why does Jormag get a 30 minute timer, and this only 15?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Is that a reasonable requirement for all servers? Is that an amount of players that most servers would be able to gather for this event?

Yes it is.
This is more or less the only thing in the game that is actually hard. Let it be hard and accept that not all content will be built to be doable by everyone at all time.

lordkrall.7241:

Yes it is.
This is more or less the only thing in the game that is actually hard. Let it be hard and accept that not all content will be built to be doable by everyone at all time.

I don’t mind having hard content, but I think it’s bad design to let a group of players take part in a battle that they have no chance of beating. If you’re in an overflow, forget it. If you have less than 80 players, forget it. Yet the game doesn’t inform the players that they don’t have any chance. Anet seems happy to let dozens of players wave their weapons at Tequatl for 15 minutes, only to have him fly off. That is not okay in my book.

If there aren’t enough players, either don’t spawn Tequatl at all, or scale his health down based on the number of players that are there.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I don’t mind having hard content, but I think it’s bad design to let a group of players take part in a battle that they have no chance of beating. If you’re in an overflow, forget it. If you have less than 80 players, forget it. Yet the game doesn’t inform the players that they don’t have any chance. Anet seems happy to let dozens of players wave their weapons at Tequatl for 15 minutes, only to have him fly off. That is not okay in my book.

If there aren’t enough players, either don’t spawn Tequatl at all, or scale his health down based on the number of players that are there.

So basically removing the ability to actually manage it with less people than intended?
You basically want to remove everything from the game if you can’t complete it at that time?
Should we also kick groups from dungeons if they don’t have the optimal set-up?
Or if they die at the first enemy group?

Even if you have no chance of winning you can still learn from fighting the battle.
In any case it is obvious within the first 2 minutes if you doing enough dmg. Players that do not wish to waste 15 precious minutes can always leave at that point.

That or they could just scale his HP down to where it’s reasonable to do it within the 15 minute limit. He’s a tough fight, can bring up that bone wall purely to run said timer down, and it seems like the 2 skill on the turrets doesn’t negate the wall, just delays the inevitable. Some of the mechanics are also a bit wonky, like the poison fields popping up right under the turret locations, and, since they deal damage, slaughtering the turrets themselves as well as the players in them. I had figured that the poison would just be a hazard for those that were trying to do melee on Tequatl, not something that even the turrets would need to worry about spawning under them.

In short, nerf his HP (HP sponges are just boring, lengthening the timer isn’t going to fix this), make it so the poison doesn’t reach to where the turrets are positioned, and I think the fight would be a lot more manageable. Still very difficult, but managable.

lordkrall.7241:

So basically removing the ability to actually manage it with less people than intended?
You basically want to remove everything from the game if you can’t complete it at that time?

No what I’m saying is, don’t give players a challenge they can’t win. It’s a waste of everyone’s time. No matter how good your strategy, and how high your DPS, you’re not going to make even a dent in Tequatl’s health if you don’t have a ton of players participating. So why allow smaller number of players to try it in the first place? With a 15 minute timer, no way you’ll beat him with a group of say, 50 players. But it’s a world event. There could be any number of players in that zone at that particular time, depending on the time of day. The event should scale so that less populated servers have a chance to beat him as well.

Silver.3284:

Even if you have no chance of winning you can still learn from fighting the battle.
In any case it is obvious within the first 2 minutes if you doing enough dmg. Players that do not wish to waste 15 precious minutes can always leave at that point.

There is nothing to learn from a battle that is merely about having enough DPS.

Nerf the dragon.. Nerf the dragon .. nerf the dragon.. And make the silly waves more visable and stop making it push me back before it even reaches me..pffft

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

lordkrall.7241:

Yes it is.
This is more or less the only thing in the game that is actually hard. Let it be hard and accept that not all content will be built to be doable by everyone at all time.

I don’t mind having hard content, but I think it’s bad design to let a group of players take part in a battle that they have no chance of beating. If you’re in an overflow, forget it. If you have less than 80 players, forget it. Yet the game doesn’t inform the players that they don’t have any chance. Anet seems happy to let dozens of players wave their weapons at Tequatl for 15 minutes, only to have him fly off. That is not okay in my book.

If there aren’t enough players, either don’t spawn Tequatl at all, or scale his health down based on the number of players that are there.

Who are you to say who and how many gets to participate? Last I check Anet is still in charge and they certainly did not make you boss. Frankly I don’t give a kitten if it isn’t ok in your book.. Your book has no bearing on anyone else. People have the right to choose if they want to participate and when that choice is taken away we get kitten ed. Players like you have no right infringing on our choice either.

Eladriel.7295:

Who are you to say who and how many gets to participate? Last I check Anet is still in charge and they certainly did not make you boss. Frankly I don’t give a kitten if it isn’t ok in your book.. Your book has no bearing on anyone else. People have the right to choose if they want to participate and when that choice is taken away we get kitten ed. Players like you have no right infringing on our choice either.

You are missing the point of my post entirely. All of those players are having their time wasted by an event that doesn’t scale properly based on the number of players participating. It’s not about letting smaller groups of players try the event, it’s about those groups having NO CHANCE to defeat Tequatl. Anet should not put such a high player requirement on a world event.

We had this very same problem with Scarlet’s invasions: Load into an overflow where the event has been going for a few minutes, and give up, because you won’t beat the timer. That is bad design.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Silver.3284:

Even if you have no chance of winning you can still learn from fighting the battle.
In any case it is obvious within the first 2 minutes if you doing enough dmg. Players that do not wish to waste 15 precious minutes can always leave at that point.

There is nothing to learn from a battle that is merely about having enough DPS.

I am sorry, but I did not perceive this battle as merely requiring enough dps. In fact, I would argue that if you get even 120 players with the optimal dps specs for this but just shoo them out to dps the dragon you will most likely not succeed. The mechanics may seem basic to you but you may want to have a look at what people are doing in the actual fight right now instead.

And again, if you don’t want to waste the time, once you see how it is going (or even once you count the players present) nothing is stopping you from leaving.

Silver.3284:

And again, if you don’t want to waste the time, once you see how it is going (or even once you count the players present) nothing is stopping you from leaving.

But that’s terrible design! Players should always have a chance at turning the tide, turning a losing battle into a victorious one. If players simply stumble into an overflow, where 80+ players are trying their best to bring down Tequatl, but they’ve only taken him down to 95% health, and you walk out…. how is that good design? Players should always have a hope of turning the battle around. It shouldn’t simply come down to having enough DPS to beat the timer.

And I realize there are other mechanics that help keep players alive, and boost their damage output. And I realize that canons that need to be defended. But in the end it all boils down to “How much damage can the players do within the limited time”. If it’s not enough DPS, you lose the battle.

I’ve gone from an avid player to a show up once a week or so gamer as the classes really haven’t changed much nor have new skills been introduced. I just prefer games that let you play a proper tank class…something this game sorely lacks (aka, I don’t have to dodge I can take your best hitting skill and laugh as it only scratches me while I slowly beat you to death with my reduced damage output).

So, me and my girl come back to the game as the new fights intruiged us. Get out there, fully geared to run fractals for crying out loud in top rank gear. In an overflow but hey, that should only make the fight a little worse than usual due to lower numbers… oh no…barely got Teq to 15-20%. The sheer amount of deaths (either put the wave there OR the fear, not both…the number of people being forced through AoE while knocked over thanks to fear lock is insane). I died once the whole fight…a pretty good feat considering I was in melee range almost the whole time, my girl got slaughtered atleast 5 times due to fear lock right before a wave then getting knocked through a chain of poison clouds again and again. Don’t expect us back anytime soon as all it did was kill the nastalgia we were feeling originally.

This new updated fight is way overtuned for the casual player and seriously belongs in it’s own guild zone location. Even then it needs a serious change in HP and armor.

Even with all this however…it DOESN’T feel like a proper dragon fight. Why is the dragon not flying? Why are we not shooting it down? Which is also the problem with other dragons, the PLAYERS are not the ones shooting it down… Why am I, as a crazy warrior specialized in axes (weapon of choice by all dragon slayers in fantasy books), unable to try and get ON the dragon and attack at areas it has ZERO chance of properly defending against? C’mon! You want an immersive world without healers right? Give us the fight mechanics to ALLOW such a world! Screw this giant slow death crap, let a crazy warrior or two wait on a high ledge and try to make a jump onto it’s back and chop at the base of it’s wings! Heck a successful attempt should ground the dragon and seriously (talking 25-30% max hp) damage the dragon and severely limit it’s available attacks for the rest of the fight. I mean CRAZY…as in you make the jump or you die crazy. Let us use spears (a weapon that still needs put int he game on land) and pin parts of the dragon and eliminate attacks/create opennings. Let us properly fight these things! Failure to pin it means it takes back off, if you pin it you have to keep it pinned. Damage the wings enough it can’t fly but it can still leap around, damage a leg bad enough it can’t leap anymore….damage the jaw/face and it can’t use it’s breath weapon anymore. Create such a fight and yes…the dragon will die fast due to overwhelming numbers and yet…people will love you for letting us fight how we honestly would fight such a creature! We wouldn’t just shoot it, we’d aim at the wings and deny it the sky, pin it’s feet with spears so it can’t defend itself, then gut it!

I don’t think they could turn GW2 into Shadow of the Colossus over night, even if they wanted to. The game’s mechanics simply do not allow players to leap onto the back of a dragon like in Dragon’s Dogma. However, you make a valid point regarding the way we battle these things. All of the dragons have multiple parts we can target individually, but this hardly seems to have any importance. None of the battles require us to target their legs or wings, so they can’t flee. And this I think, is something they could definitely implement.

I do think they made Tequatl a lot more interesting… but he’s still a stationary boss, and it still boils down to slowly chipping away at his health bar by basically targeting any part of him. I wish there was a way we could influence his behavior by specifically targeting parts of the boss.

I think upping the timer is a valid approach. It wouldn’t take anything away from those who are able to complete it in 15 minutes (they could even add an achievement and/or title for doing so) while still giving every server – even the smaller, less organized ones – the chance to see the latter phases of the fight without having to resort to guesting. Win-win.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Silver.3284:

And again, if you don’t want to waste the time, once you see how it is going (or even once you count the players present) nothing is stopping you from leaving.

But that’s terrible design! Players should always have a chance at turning the tide, turning a losing battle into a victorious one. If players simply stumble into an overflow, where 80+ players are trying their best to bring down Tequatl, but they’ve only taken him down to 95% health, and you walk out…. how is that good design? Players should always have a hope of turning the battle around. It shouldn’t simply come down to having enough DPS to beat the timer.

No, players should not always have hope of turning a battle and they already don’t have in many other areas of the game. If I visit Jormag at 4 am on a map with another2 ppl, it ain’t going to die for me and rightly so. It should not be possible to do all things at all times in all situations.
I too would prefer a soft timer – what was suggested earlier regarding the hylek towers perhaps, but I believe there must be a way to fail this.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

And I realize there are other mechanics that help keep players alive, and boost their damage output. And I realize that canons that need to be defended. But in the end it all boils down to “How much damage can the players do within the limited time”. If it’s not enough DPS, you lose the battle.

I still disagree. Right now it boils down to “what percentage of the time can I get my players to apply their dps”
The hp is not that high. It may be higher than I think it should be but it’s not that high. If even 50 players could constantly stand on the toe fully buffed and hacking away I think it would easily die in less than 15 mins. But we spend more time feared, knockbacked, downed or even dead waiting for a res instead of wp-ing than actually applying that dps. So no, I don’t think the lack of dps is the reason we are failing this, it’s our inability to stay up and apply whatever dps we have.

I say make him harder but get rid of the time entirely. I like to fail stuff cause I wasn’t good enough to beat a dragon not because I simply don’t have enough DPS to beat a timer.

Julie Yann.5379:

I say make him harder but get rid of the time entirely. I like to fail stuff cause I wasn’t good enough to beat a dragon not because I simply don’t have enough DPS to beat a timer.

I agree with this statement. It’s very disappointing to put up a really good fight with 50+ people, and not wipe, yet still fail the event due to time running out. The timer is something we do not have control over. But if there was something we had to defend, that is a fair thing that could determine victory or defeat.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Julie Yann.5379:

I say make him harder but get rid of the time entirely. I like to fail stuff cause I wasn’t good enough to beat a dragon not because I simply don’t have enough DPS to beat a timer.

I agree with this statement. It’s very disappointing to put up a really good fight with 50+ people, and not wipe, yet still fail the event due to time running out. The timer is something we do not have control over. But if there was something we had to defend, that is a fair thing that could determine victory or defeat.

That’s something I agree with; either they need to make it so that players have to ensure the safety of certain devices (turrets for example) or they risk Teq breaking the mega laser and failing the event.

One thing I have been suggesting is, keep the timer, but give the turrets a special shot that can cause a sort of “knockback” when he is about to run off (used just after the timer has run out, but just before he breaks the mega laser). You would need like 3/4 of the turrets to hit him in like that 3-4 second period in order to pull off the knockback, but if done successfully it would “reset” the timer, giving players more time.

Something like that or the idea to require a certain number of turrets functioning at all times would be a much better solution for a sort of replacement for the timer. Either of these ideas, or something similar would be better, just for the fact that it would allow players to be engaged with and affect it rather than some arbitrary “you got 10 min of my time” scenario.