[All] ANet - Do You See This as Balanced?
That you think it is “mass-hysteria” and not “well deserved mass outrage” speaks volumes for your own delusions.
It’s not mass anything considering only a small amount of players actually post on the forums.
Presuming we had even as few as 500 people posting on these forums, that would be a large enough sample size to make statistical inferences on the rest of the population.
Scrubbiest Necro NA.
That you think it is “mass-hysteria” and not “well deserved mass outrage” speaks volumes for your own delusions.
It’s not mass anything considering only a small amount of players actually post on the forums.
Presuming we had even as few as 500 people posting on these forums, that would be a large enough sample size to make statistical inferences on the rest of the population.
errr no. the forum community will be always be the vocal minority when compared against the rest of the actual playing players population.
That you think it is “mass-hysteria” and not “well deserved mass outrage” speaks volumes for your own delusions.
It’s not mass anything considering only a small amount of players actually post on the forums.
Presuming we had even as few as 500 people posting on these forums, that would be a large enough sample size to make statistical inferences on the rest of the population.
errr no. the forum community will be always be the vocal minority when compared against the rest of the actual playing players population.
I don’t think you get how statistics and polling works.
That you think it is “mass-hysteria” and not “well deserved mass outrage” speaks volumes for your own delusions.
It’s not mass anything considering only a small amount of players actually post on the forums.
Presuming we had even as few as 500 people posting on these forums, that would be a large enough sample size to make statistical inferences on the rest of the population.
errr no. the forum community will be always be the vocal minority when compared against the rest of the actual playing players population.
I don’t think you get how statistics and polling works.
does not matter as they have said before that the amount of people that posts on the official forum is a tiny percentage when compared against the actual number of active players in the game.
they may take any positive constructive feedback on the forums as reference if need be but it is not absolute and they need to look at the whole picture – sPvP / WvW / PvE and not just the vocal minority in the sPvP forums.
That you think it is “mass-hysteria” and not “well deserved mass outrage” speaks volumes for your own delusions.
It’s not mass anything considering only a small amount of players actually post on the forums.
Presuming we had even as few as 500 people posting on these forums, that would be a large enough sample size to make statistical inferences on the rest of the population.
errr no. the forum community will be always be the vocal minority when compared against the rest of the actual playing players population.
I don’t think you get how statistics and polling works.
does not matter as they have said before that the amount of people that posts on the official forum is a tiny percentage when compared against the actual number of active players in the game.
they may take any positive constructive feedback on the forums as reference if need be but it is not absolute and they need to look at the whole picture – sPvP / WvW / PvE and not just the vocal minority in the sPvP forums.
Actually, no polling of large numbers of people will almost ever include the entire population.
The way most polling works is through moderately large random samples of people within the general population, like, for example, the number of players who post on the forums.
There is always a chance that the sample size is not large enough, but there seems to be quite a few people posting here, with no real reason to say that the general forum population would be naturally biased towards a certain class.
For all we know, the opinions of 90% of the people who don’t look or post on the forums could be totally different from the 10% that do. Those that don’t tend to know less about the game.
And Warriors have been the most popular class even since the beginning of the game. That doesn’t equate them to being overpowered.
Engis are the least popular, however they are a very powerful class and not underpowered whatsoever.
Game balance isn’t based on a popularity contest.
Based on my opinion, of which classes tend to offer the most.
Dungeons: Guardian
Fractals: Guardian
WvW Zergs: Warrior/Guard/Ele
Hot Join PvP: Warrior
Solo PvP: Warrior/Engi
Team PvP: Warrior/Guard/Engi
GvG: Warrior/Guard/Ele/Necro
WvW roaming: Thief/Mesmer
(edited by killahmayne.9518)
errr no. the forum community will be always be the vocal minority when compared against the rest of the actual playing players population.
For all we know, the opinions of 90% of the people who don’t look or post on the forums could be totally different from the 10% that do. Those that don’t tend to know less about the game.
And Warriors have been the most popular class even since the beginning of the game. That doesn’t equate them to being overpowered.
Engis are the least popular, however they are a very powerful class and not underpowered whatsoever.
Game balance isn’t based on a popularity contest.
This isn’t how statistical samples work. No pharmaceutical company ever tests their new medicine on 100% of the population. No market research company ever calls every single person that could fall within the target demographic. No factory can examine every single product the produce on the assembly line. No political party ever polls the whole country to figure out where they stand. Even ANET cannot take every single opinion of every player into account when trying to make a decision. Acquiring and/or processing that much information just isn’t feasible.
Instead, there is a statistically derived method that allows you to more-or-less scale the data acquired from a few sources to the entire population. For example, if I wanted to know how one million people would react to something, I could ether ask all 1,000,000 people (which is time consuming and drains resources), or I could ask 400 or so people. As it turns out, the range of response diversity within those 400 people will, with an extremely high probability, mirror the range of responses of the 999,600 others. Of course you’ll miss the occasional outlier, but that’s not really what you should be considering in the first place.
While forum goers are biased, and tend toward negative criticism, you can’t simply ignore when they respond en mass. If 300 people think Warriors are OP, there is a very, very high chance that a fairly large portion of the player population agrees, knowledgeable or not (see where I bring up politics above). You can look up statistical sampling if you don’t believe me. And, you know, I’m no market research analyst or anything, but if a large proportion of my target demographic believes there is something wrong with my product, it’s probably in my best interest to fix it.
Scrubbiest Necro NA.
(edited by Balefire.7592)
errr no. the forum community will be always be the vocal minority when compared against the rest of the actual playing players population.
For all we know, the opinions of 90% of the people who don’t look or post on the forums could be totally different from the 10% that do. Those that don’t tend to know less about the game.
And Warriors have been the most popular class even since the beginning of the game. That doesn’t equate them to being overpowered.
Engis are the least popular, however they are a very powerful class and not underpowered whatsoever.
Game balance isn’t based on a popularity contest.This isn’t how statistical samples work. No pharmaceutical company ever tests their new medicine on 100% of the population. No market research company ever calls every single person that could fall within the target demographic. No factory can examine every single product the produce on the assembly line. No political party ever polls the whole country to figure out where they stand. Even ANET cannot take every single opinion of every player into account when trying to make a decision. Acquiring and/or processing that much information just isn’t feasible.
Instead, there is a statistically derived method that allows you to more-or-less scale the data acquired from a few sources to the entire population. For example, if I wanted to know how one million people would react to something, I could ether ask all 1,000,000 people (which is time consuming and drains resources), or I could ask 400 or so people. As it turns out, the range of response diversity within those 400 people will, with an extremely high probability, mirror the range of responses of the 999,600 others. Of course you’ll miss the occasional outlier, but that’s not really what you should be considering in the first place.
While forum goers are biased, and tend toward negative criticism, you can’t simply ignore when they respond en mass. If 300 people think Warriors are OP, there is a very, very high chance that a fairly large portion of the player population agrees, knowledgeable or not (see where I bring up politics above). You can look up statistical sampling if you don’t believe me. And, you know, I’m no market research analyst or anything, but if a large proportion of my target demographic believes there is something wrong with my product, it’s probably in my best interest to fix it.
I am not talking about statistical sampling whatsoever or offered any insight on it, if you even read my post. I just made a general statement.
(edited by killahmayne.9518)
Elections are essentially is a sort of asking 100% of the population….
Anet should be able to see statistics from actual in-game combat, from those it should not be hard to derive a gross indication of the balance of classes, builds and skills.
I am not talking about statistical sampling whatsoever or offered any insight on it, if you even read my post. I just made a general statement.
You definitely did. To be specific:
For all we know, the opinions of 90% of the people who don’t look or post on the forums could be totally different from the 10% that do.
For all we know, especially all we know about statistics and probability, there is an incredibly high probability that the opinions of those not posting on the forums are the same as those of forum warriors.
Could they be different? Sure, I guess it’s statistically possible. But it only takes 385 or so people to correctly model the response of a population over 5,000,000 with 95% accuracy.
Scrubbiest Necro NA.
(edited by Balefire.7592)
I am not talking about statistical sampling whatsoever or offered any insight on it, if you even read my post. I just made a general statement.
You definitely did. To be specific:
For all we know, the opinions of 90% of the people who don’t look or post on the forums could be totally different from the 10% that do.
For all we know, especially all we know about statistics and probability, there is an incredibly high probability that the opinions of those not posting on the forums are the same as those of forum warriors.
Not entirely true. The kind of player who posts on the forum are usually a completely different kind of player that just plays the game being completely oblivious to the forums.
We know that’s true therefor it’s safe to assume the vast majority of the players do not have a strong opinion on warriors one way or the other.
Using the opinions of forum posters to represent the entire player base doesn’t work.
When we see threads blow up like with the flame kissed cultural armor shenanigans then you know regular players have come to the forum to share their mind. That’s simply not the case with warriors. It’s usually the same people thinking they represent a large majority when they don’t.
(edited by fellyn.5083)
I am not talking about statistical sampling whatsoever or offered any insight on it, if you even read my post. I just made a general statement.
You definitely did. To be specific:
For all we know, the opinions of 90% of the people who don’t look or post on the forums could be totally different from the 10% that do.
For all we know, especially all we know about statistics and probability, there is an incredibly high probability that the opinions of those not posting on the forums are the same as those of forum warriors.
Could they be different? Sure, I guess it’s statistically possible. But it only takes 385 or so people to correctly model the response of a population over 5,000,000 with 95% accuracy.
Again, that mentions nothing about statistic sampling whatsoever and that wasn’t what I was implying either. I offered no opinion on it with that general statement.
But while we are on this topic.
You mentioned something about 500 people on the forums and how that will represent the whole GW2 community. That is like asking 500 people in Utah who are apart of an anti-Obama group whether they would vote for Obama in the next election and then extrapolating those results onto millions of people. That is an extreme example but the point is you need to take small samples from different areas, which in this case, entails both forum and non-forum users to get a more accurate and wider range of responses.
(edited by killahmayne.9518)
I am not talking about statistical sampling whatsoever or offered any insight on it, if you even read my post. I just made a general statement.
You definitely did. To be specific:
For all we know, the opinions of 90% of the people who don’t look or post on the forums could be totally different from the 10% that do.
For all we know, especially all we know about statistics and probability, there is an incredibly high probability that the opinions of those not posting on the forums are the same as those of forum warriors.
Not entirely true. The kind of player who posts on the forum are usually a completely different kind of player that just plays the game being completely oblivious to the forums.
We know that’s true therefor it’s safe to assume the vast majority of the players do not have a strong opinion on warriors one way or the other.
Using the opinions of forum posters to represent the entire player base doesn’t work.
When we see threads blow up like with the flame kissed cultural armor shenanigans then you know regular players have come to the forum to share their mind. That’s simply not the case with warriors. It’s usually the same people thinking they represent a large majority when they don’t.
It might not directly represent opinions in the same sense, but it’s still a valid indicator. Ultimately, ANET does and will do whatever they want based on whatever metrics they choose to observe. That being said, you can go count the number of different usernames posting in these threads, but I believe it’s sufficient to warrant further investigation.
Again, that mentions nothing about statistic sampling whatsoever and that wasn’t what I was implying either. I offered no opinion on it with that general statement.
But while we are on this topic.
You mentioned something about 500 people on the forums and how that will represent the whole GW2 community. That is like asking 500 people in Utah who are apart of an anti-Obama group whether they would vote for Obama in the next election and then extrapolating those results onto millions of people. You need to take small samples from different areas, which in this case, entails both forum and non-forum users to get a more accurate and wider range of responses.
In that case, I apologize, as I misinterpreted your wording.
But to continue the discussion, you’re presuming that the 500 forum goers relate to the 500 Utah-folk directly, which isn’t the case. For example, I am a WvW focused player. Others prefer PvP or PvE. That already introduces diversity that, from my perspective, your example didn’t seem to have. Furthermore, if you poll 400 Republicans on Obama, they’re response is obvious. But we aren’t a two-party system – we’re an 8 party system, with heavy partisanship, as many players play multiple classes. In fact, even some warriors have stepped forth to call for nerfs.
My intention isn’t to say that the forum warriors perfectly model the player base, because they probably don’t. However, they are a large enough fraction of the player base that their opinions may serve as indicators of the general consensus, and thus, may warrant further investigation.
Scrubbiest Necro NA.
(edited by Balefire.7592)
I am not talking about statistical sampling whatsoever or offered any insight on it, if you even read my post. I just made a general statement.
You definitely did. To be specific:
For all we know, the opinions of 90% of the people who don’t look or post on the forums could be totally different from the 10% that do.
For all we know, especially all we know about statistics and probability, there is an incredibly high probability that the opinions of those not posting on the forums are the same as those of forum warriors.
Not entirely true. The kind of player who posts on the forum are usually a completely different kind of player that just plays the game being completely oblivious to the forums.
We know that’s true therefor it’s safe to assume the vast majority of the players do not have a strong opinion on warriors one way or the other.
Using the opinions of forum posters to represent the entire player base doesn’t work.
When we see threads blow up like with the flame kissed cultural armor shenanigans then you know regular players have come to the forum to share their mind. That’s simply not the case with warriors. It’s usually the same people thinking they represent a large majority when they don’t.
It might not directly represent opinions in the same sense, but it’s still a valid indicator. Ultimately, ANET does and will do whatever they want based on whatever metrics they choose to observe. That being said, you can go count the number of different usernames posting in these threads, but I believe it’s sufficient to warrant further investigation.
Again, that mentions nothing about statistic sampling whatsoever and that wasn’t what I was implying either. I offered no opinion on it with that general statement.
But while we are on this topic.
You mentioned something about 500 people on the forums and how that will represent the whole GW2 community. That is like asking 500 people in Utah who are apart of an anti-Obama group whether they would vote for Obama in the next election and then extrapolating those results onto millions of people. You need to take small samples from different areas, which in this case, entails both forum and non-forum users to get a more accurate and wider range of responses.
In that case, I apologize, as I misinterpreted your wording.
But to continue the discussion, you’re presuming that the 500 forum goers relate to the 500 Utah-folk directly, which isn’t the case. For example, I am a WvW focused player. Others prefer PvP or PvE. That already introduces diversity that, from my perspective, your example didn’t seem to have. Furthermore, if you poll 400 Republicans on Obama, they’re response is obvious. But we aren’t a two-party system – we’re an 8 party system, with heavy partisanship, as many players play multiple classes. In fact, even some warriors have stepped forth to call for nerfs.
My intention isn’t to say that the forum warriors perfectly model the player base, because they probably don’t. However, they are a large enough fraction of the player base that their opinions may serve as indicators of the general consensus, and thus, may warrant further investigation.
As I mentioned in my previous post, I acknowledged that my example was an extreme example. I was just trying to illustrate the point that polling 500 forum users introduces more unintended inherent bias as opposed to polling 500 players regardless of whether they use the forums or not. Whether that bias is significant or not, I don’t know.
As I mentioned in my previous post, I acknowledged that my example was an extreme example. I was just trying to illustrate the point that polling 500 forum users introduces more unintended inherent bias as opposed to polling 500 players regardless of whether they use the forums or not. Whether that bias is significant or not, I don’t know.
Presumably, if we were to introduce game theory into such an analysis, it would tend to be valid, since game theory is “the study of mathematical models of conflict and cooperation between intelligent rational decision-makers,” and co-operative victory would, in this case, be achieving balance. That being said, I don’t understand enough on the topic to further this discussion.
Scrubbiest Necro NA.
why dun they implement an “in game survey” to check reactions while inside the game?
at the top left corner of the screen, an icon flashes.
mouse over, tool tip text reveals “complete survey” to earn achievement points!
an example,
“do you think healing signet is overpowered?”
yes / no
earn 1 achievement point for each survey question answered.
The opinion of the community that doesn t post on the forum is easily represented by:
LFG tool
Warrior rerolls
zerg trains composition
pvp frequency
and much more…
They clearly know what s happening as everyone else.
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
this is working as intended because warriors are meant to be the easiest profession to play. do you remember that guild wars 2 is a very casual game and has a lot of casual players? casual players like to play easy professions.
Cart leading the donkey? The class is easy to play due to the level it’s been buffed/built up to.
Two solutions are, make warrior more challenging to play, or make all other professions more easier/favorable.
since launch, before the various buffs, warriors have been easy to play in PvE, this is the intended game design since launch.
warriors is and always will be the easiest profession.
i do not think making them more challenging is good for the massive casual player base.however, i do object if the other professions are made more favorable to play.
for example, i do not really play elementalist due to lowest health pool and light armor. as for how i level my PvE elementalist to level 80, it was via the 30% exp bar from doing 5 PvE daily achievements, over many days. errr lets see now.
5/5 dailies = 30% exp bar.
so 4 days = 120% exp bar = 1.2 level.
20 days = 6 levelsfrom 39 to 80 is about 40 levels so …
maybe i took around 130 days.as for sPvP, i tried playing elementalist in sPvP. died within seconds in each encounter so i stopped doing so. the other times i got try out elementalist is when during friendly 1 vs 1 duels with guild members. i still died in the end though.
perhaps, the main issue with so much warrior hate, is that, warriors are very much easier to play when compared against other professions.
for example, an average player may find thief to be weak, not good enough, etc. but for a player who is very experienced with thief, live in USA, near the physical servers, have good latency etc may think otherwise.
some professions such as thief does not allow for any errors in combat, and any bad latency may adversely affect their combat game play.
warriors on the other hand, allows the warrior player to make a lot of mistakes and still survive, provided if the enemy are equally not that skilled.
Okey so a few things I should point out here, first of all if you die that easily with ele you’re apparently doing something wrong, however warriors are essentially on par with ele at dmg output if the ele is played at max potency (which is a lot harder to do than with the warrior) yet warrior has loads of more hp and armor, if you consider this to be balanced, then your post stands otherwise you should probobly reconsider it.
I apologize if I don’t see this ‘issue’ to the degree of which you do
But Skyper!
You don’t know your Internetz much, do you?
It is an outrage! They’ll cancel their subs!
There are no imbalances in MMORPGs. There’s only insulting the devs and questioning their mental capacities. Which is the same, just in MMORPG-jargon.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
I apologize if I don’t see this ‘issue’ to the degree of which you do
But Skyper!
You don’t know your Internetz much, do you?It is an outrage! They’ll cancel their subs!
There are no imbalances in MMORPGs. There’s only insulting the devs and questioning their mental capacities. Which is the same, just in MMORPG-jargon.
Also there is sarcasm on players maturity when you are short on arguments.
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
I disagree with the OP. They are clearly very, very biased and just want warrior nerfed. This is my opinion of dominant/most useful classes:-
GW2 Activity / Dominant Profession
Dungeons: Guardian
Fractals: Guardian
Open World Events: Warrior
Open World Bosses: Warrior
WvW Zergs: Guardian
Hot Join PvP: Fairly equal mix, only a lack of Ele’s
Solo PvP: Fairly equal mix, only a lack of Ele’s
Team PvP: Fairly equal mix, some awesome Ele’s
GvG: Fairly equal mix
WvW roaming: Thief
Also there is sarcasm on players maturity when you are short on arguments.
Maturity is actually a good point.
Can’t remember when someone last went ballistic about something serious IRL to the same degree people get angry on the internet about absolutely meaningless things.
There’s tons of issues in GW2. Including the biggest one (build diversity, amount of broken/bugged abilities, mob AI, WvW balance), these are still all pretty minor. Game works, is playable, overall enjoyable, ok balanced, does what it says on the tin.
Sure it could use a lot of work, but as all issues are at best minor tickets (outside of the odd bug which causes the server to restart :P ), it really comes down to whether one just inherently doesn’t enjoy the game – or the entire genre, which is an impression I get all too often from many of these posts.
What makes it annoying is when players blow these up to the proportions they do.
Why is it such a big deal that Warriors are strong in dungeons? Sure, could use a nerf or two, but does it really … do anything? Much? Not that I’ve noticed. The worst is does is actually in player behaviour, exactly on the forums and sometimes in map-chat. The endless back and forth between “Warrior nabbs, can’t play, lolclass” and “kitten nubb, I just play better” is much more a problem which needs a fix than the imbalance which caused it in the first place.
This isn’t a GW2-specific issue, ofc. Any MMO has this player behaviour, but that hardly makes it any better.
But really as a dev, mostly it tells you that you’re doing everything quite alright. There’s nothing seriously wrong if players are acting as they always do when everything is ok.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
GW2 Activity / Dominant Profession
Dungeons: Guardian + 4 warriors or 5 warriors
Exceptions: AC 1-3 1 ele 1 guard 3 wars, cof1 1 mesmer 4 wars
Fractals: 2 Guardian +3 warriors
1 war and 1 guard are absolutely mandatory for 99% parties.
Any party not asking for at least 1 guard is either low level or playing for a challenge.
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
GW2 Activity / Dominant Profession
Dungeons: Guardian + 4 warriors or 5 warriors
Exceptions: AC 1-3 1 ele 1 guard 3 wars, cof1 1 mesmer 4 warsFractals: 2 Guardian +3 warriors
1 war and 1 guard are absolutely mandatory for 99% parties.
Any party not asking for at least 1 guard is either low level or playing for a challenge.
This is true, however as you also states, a majority of the party is ususally still warriors, which is kinda silly
GvG: Fairly equal mix
No! Not even close.
Thief+Mesmer+Ranger+Engi will together take about 20% of the slots in gvg.
50% or more will be split varying between Guard and Warrior.