Guild Wars 2

Riot also does regular patches that are sane, measured and balanced around the competitive level (and they even hold back on releases for event servers until competitions are over). It is an immense cry away from GW2’s penchant for plopping out some absurd “miracle patch” every half a year that completely reworks the entire game.

They really need to buff/change the Guardian Shield. This weapon is the worst in the whole game. I don’t know why they didn’t changed it yet and why The #4 shield atk is still 3 sec on spvp, it already is very weak and only make it worse.

shimmerlessEU.6841:

Riot also does regular patches that are sane, measured and balanced around the competitive level (and they even hold back on releases for event servers until competitions are over). It is an immense cry away from GW2’s penchant for plopping out some absurd “miracle patch” every half a year that completely reworks the entire game.

Don’t need to rework the entire game, but there still too many things there didn’t get fix since release.

Tiny bit of bitterness.

“Engi’s have some skills that nobody uses (and one skill they use anyways). Better buff them!”

“Rangers are mostly using longbow to the lack of other weapons. We all know sword/dagger is too string, so we’d better scale back longbow some!”

Doesn’t help that this (depending on the time) makes point blank shot essentially impossible to hit with at the range it’s named after. We can compromise on them making projecitle attacks work better at PB range I guess ><

Windsagio.1340:

Tiny bit of bitterness.

“Engi’s have some skills that nobody uses (and one skill they use anyways). Better buff them!”

“Rangers are mostly using longbow to the lack of other weapons. We all know sword/dagger is too string, so we’d better scale back longbow some!”

Doesn’t help that this (depending on the time) makes point blank shot essentially impossible to hit with at the range it’s named after. We can compromise on them making projecitle attacks work better at PB range I guess ><

It’s no worse than pin down and we don’t have too many issues landing it at point blank range.

Julie Yann.5379:

Windsagio.1340:

Tiny bit of bitterness.

“Engi’s have some skills that nobody uses (and one skill they use anyways). Better buff them!”

“Rangers are mostly using longbow to the lack of other weapons. We all know sword/dagger is too string, so we’d better scale back longbow some!”

Doesn’t help that this (depending on the time) makes point blank shot essentially impossible to hit with at the range it’s named after. We can compromise on them making projecitle attacks work better at PB range I guess ><

It’s no worse than pin down and we don’t have too many issues landing it at point blank range.

I wouldn’t mind if the other options were better ><

shimmerlessEU.6841:

Riot also does regular patches that are sane, measured and balanced around the competitive level (and they even hold back on releases for event servers until competitions are over). It is an immense cry away from GW2’s penchant for plopping out some absurd “miracle patch” every half a year that completely reworks the entire game.

Well Riot has a lot more profitable model than GW2 the characters also have a lot less skills with a lot less buffs, donditions and variables.

Prysin.8542:

Shanks.2907:

Added a skill fact.

in-fact, that’s a fact.

nicknamenick.2437:

Did any warr used offhand mace?? lol @ crushing blow with a 3/4 casttime.. haha waste of weapon skill slot.

used it before, as a test, with Axe mainhand. It is amusing when you knock down a whole team and burst the lowest player in the face with evis while their all down.

but other then that, havent seen anyone even try it.

i think the Vuln buff is more a dungeon buff, i play since few weeks War for dungeons and Mace offhand was used to keep the Vuln stacks high, now much easier.
I think its okay, because i luv my ambrite Mace for it

CboStL.4965:

Volrath.1473:

LoL
pathetic changes!

i’m out *

Judging by your post history, you’ve been gone for a while now. Yet you still come on here everyday to let us all know.

wrong.

I come here when I’m bored at work to see how things are. As I said many times and you probably didn’t read my posts just looked at the dates, yes I haven’t played for some time now. Yes I like the combat system of this game but lost a lot of players, competitive PvP is on life support, devs are “straggled” and cant do there jobs as they would like to.

No matter how they paint it, the viewers on tournament steams are around the 700’s (world wide) I follow non official players from other games that have 4-5x more viewers then these tournaments…

No matter how much I (we) like the combat system, the rest of the game is not good enough to keep players interested. Leaderboard are a joke, no dueling, nothing to do wile waiting for queues to pop besides jumping around in HTOM, Skyhammer. 4v5, 3v5, 4-5 players of the same profession in each match.

No rewards worth working towards and after 2 years imo it has reached the point of no return, the majority of players that left are not comming back because they are playing something else and actually having fun, this game is not fun to play anymore and the awesome combat system is not enough as you can tell by the huge drop of players (at least in PvP)

so yeah you will keep reading posts from me around here. I would love this game to have succeeded but imo it is to late now… even if they manage to get better balance and NEW pvp maps that are not conquest most players that left will not be comming back. I planing on playing is such Gw2 version but with a low PvP player base I wont stay for very long i’m afraid.

PS: read the link on my signature.

shimmerlessEU.6841:

Riot also does regular patches that are sane, measured and balanced around the competitive level (and they even hold back on releases for event servers until competitions are over). It is an immense cry away from GW2’s penchant for plopping out some absurd “miracle patch” every half a year that completely reworks the entire game.

My point was that, while Riot does balance patches much more frequently than once every 2 months, GW2 is a much more complex game to balance than LoL. Having frequent balance passes with several small changes is how both games really should be working, and this upcoming patch show that ANet may be finally starting that. However, “frequent” for GW2 should be on a longer schedule than for LoL.

Windsagio.1340:

Julie Yann.5379:

Windsagio.1340:

Tiny bit of bitterness.

“Engi’s have some skills that nobody uses (and one skill they use anyways). Better buff them!”

“Rangers are mostly using longbow to the lack of other weapons. We all know sword/dagger is too string, so we’d better scale back longbow some!”

Doesn’t help that this (depending on the time) makes point blank shot essentially impossible to hit with at the range it’s named after. We can compromise on them making projecitle attacks work better at PB range I guess ><

It’s no worse than pin down and we don’t have too many issues landing it at point blank range.

I wouldn’t mind if the other options were better ><

True, despite having an OP rapid fire LB ranger are still useless.

Volrath.1473:

CboStL.4965:

Volrath.1473:

LoL
pathetic changes!

i’m out *

Judging by your post history, you’ve been gone for a while now. Yet you still come on here everyday to let us all know.

snip

There is no need to explain yourself, I’m sure you have a justification. I’m sorry if I gave you the impression I wanted to wrastle, I just wanted to state the obvious.

<3 more frequent balance patches. They are the only game in town.

I think it’s a great first step to finally step up the frequency of balance patches; whilst sacrificing volume. Incremental shaves as advocated by many on this forum are finally coming to fruition; which is great.

The news that the balance changes would again, be bundled with the feature patch was disappointing; but not unexpected. I have been arguing for the decoupling of balance from feature patches for a while, but in the absence of absolutely gamebreaking flaws the argument is significantly weaker.

The changes to Skyhammer are a long time coming. Even so, the changes do nothing to address the core issue with Skyhammer which is that Control skills are used for pushing people off for instant kills; which is a mechanic that comes to predominate over you know, actual combat.

More map iteration like this is essential to maintaining a healthy PvP scene. Just as Riot has had incremental adjustments to the Summoner’s Rift map; or Valve and DOTA has had map changes, so too should Arenanet always look critically at their own map designs and think of ways to iterate and improve. I still think that the capture points for many of Conquest’s maps are way too small, promoting AoE spam; and AI spam to absorb some of those hits. With Lord Rush/GvG/Fort Aspenwood coming up, map iteration will be essential in securing the future of the game-mode as map flaws are identified.

As for the profession changes themselves, I believe that it isn’t so much the professions these days that are overpowered so much as the Runes and Sigils.

• Celestial by itself is little better than Soldier’s for damage; even in natural Hybrid damage classes like Elementalist or Engineer. What makes it over the top is the combination of Celestial’s relatively high effective health with Might Stacking.

• Clearly the change to allow double sigils should also have been accompanied with nerfs. Namely:
  • Sigil of Battle nerfed to provide 3 stacks of Might on 10-15 seconds duration as opposed to the 20 seconds it was prior to the buff. As it is right now, Rune of Strength or Hoelbrak, with 45% Might duration, already allow any class running just 5% Boon Duration to hit the 50% breakpoint for 9 stacks of Might on Swap. 9 stacks of Might without any interaction from enemies beyond being in combat is a lot of Free stats, and boosts the Might floor significantly enough that classes like Elementalist can hit the Might ceiling practically by themselves.
  • Sigil of Air and Fire have in part allowed classes to build more survivability while sacrificing less damage, the sacrifice made up for in part by these powerful, more consistent sigils. For builds like Sword Dagger Thief, Air/Fire procs can now comprise a significant portion of burst damage; similarly, for Rapid Fire LB Ranger, the sigils allow the Ranger to frontload much of its burst and partially mitigate dodge rolls that would ordinarily cause RF shots to miss.
  • Sigil of Energy again lost some of its opportunity costs (more survivability for less damage potential) with the double sigil buff. I think it would have been smarter to simply make Energy sigil grant 9 seconds of Vigour on swap instead of an extra dodge.
  • Rune of Strength and Hoelbrak should be toned down to 30-35% Might Duration as there is currently little opportunity cost to these runes. Only 5% Boon Duration is required to maximise the potential of Battle Sigil; and the 45% overall bonus to Might Duration with 6 points in Boon Duration makes Fire Field Blast Finishers grant a silly 35 seconds of Might – well beyond the cooldown of many Blast finishers.
  • Condi Engi was considered to be relatively balanced – if undodgeable, unblockable crit-procs can be called “balanced” prior to the April patch. With Balthazar Runes granting again, 45% Burning Duration, Incendiary Powder seems to be hitting the 80% and above uptime again that begins to upset people. Nothing short of a complete rework of how IP works will solve the problem in the long run, but for now, the Rune is the contributor and therefore, the Rune should be rebalanced.

As Xeph said last year and some months ago , the damage, and accordingly the defenses in this game are extreme; thus fights are sometimes extremely binary, and the emergence of insuperable matchups – hard counters trumping soft counter outplay – can be damaging to future build variety.

• See: Cele or Condi Engi vs Thief and Zerker Engi vs Thief matchup – night and day. Or Condi Necro vs Engi and Power Necro vs Engi – again, night and day.
• Tourney play and to some extent Soloqueue is already rife with “counterpicking”. The more binary matchups that emerge with future power creep, the less potential Arenanet has for ever truly balancing this game.

Azel.4786:

Loved the part they almost forgot about the ranger, only to remember “oh ranger? Yeah people started to play with them again and they using a lot of LB huh? We should nerf it and fix this.”

Also really loved how they mentioned about fixing the pet skill of the elementalist but made no comment on fixing the most broken pet skill in the game, also known as the ranger class mechanic…

Typical Anet stuff…

Always thought this, but never hurts to say it, GW2 is a good game and has a lot of potential, but Anet really needs to get its ***t together, its been 2 years and some stuff are a problem since day one, from WvWvW to class issues.

To ArenaNet, or at the very least the presenters of Ready Up, ranger seem to be the least exiting class. Look at every Ready Up and they always just brush over it as fast as possible. There is no chit chatter about it, they just mention it and move on.
Sure they know it exists (they made it), but sometimes it seems like they wish they didn’t.

MonMalthias.4763:

As Xeph said last year and some months ago , the damage, and accordingly the defenses in this game are extreme; thus fights are sometimes extremely binary, and the emergence of insuperable matchups – hard counters trumping soft counter outplay – can be damaging to future build variety.

• See: Cele or Condi Engi vs Thief and Zerker Engi vs Thief matchup – night and day. Or Condi Necro vs Engi and Power Necro vs Engi – again, night and day.
• Tourney play and to some extent Soloqueue is already rife with “counterpicking”. The more binary matchups that emerge with future power creep, the less potential Arenanet has for ever truly balancing this game.

There is the other side too namely setups that counter the very strong “general” builds such as DD ele and engi.
Among them is most condi ranger builds due to massive poison uptime which helps shut down the healing. However condi ranger is against countered by burst thief which is countered by DD ele which is countered by condi ranger again.
So while it may not look like it, there is a “circle of power” that may not be as obvious unless you know how every build on every profession works.

I am not saying rangers hardcounter eles, but give the ranger and ele equal skill and a ST AD rabid/celestial ranger will outperform the ele due to evasion, CC and poison. The other conditions is on low cooldowns allowing for several condition bursts if played correctly. The low HP pool of eles cannot take this treatment, and usually you can burn through all the cleanses a ele got within 12-15 seconds if playing your cards right.

Volrath.1473:

Wow is old and boring nowaday i wouldnt come back to it unless they totaly overhauled their combat system and we know that wont happen

WOW combat system is better than GW2.

Target system of GW2’s is ridiculous. [Next Target] and some movement skills are disturbed by walls, bridges or doors, rather than to hit enemies. It is difficult to point one target when allies and enemies standing close together. And there is no necessary to place so many animals and mobs in wvw.

It may be fun for third party NPC to intercept fight, but I don’t want some mobs hanging around there to screw me up. Wvw battle land looks like a national park. It is exactly one of the problem of wvw. WOW’s battle ground Alterac Valley has better design.

In pve, I suggest NPC dialogue box keep close during event. It is very annoying to press interact to loot but call the dialogue box out instead.

I’m curious why some bugs in GW2 still not fixed, for examples, trapped between wall while repairing, try picking up/ interacting same item by 2 guys makes one can’t use weapon skill, and skill bugs. It is rare for a Blizzard game to tolerate a bug more than 3 months.

Guyver.1426:

WOW combat system is better than GW2.

LMAO. Not even close. It is an archaic system that punished mobility.

Guyver.1426:

Target system of GW2’s is ridiculous. [Next Target] and some movement skills are disturbed by walls, bridges or doors, rather than to hit enemies. It is difficult to point one target when allies and enemies standing close together. And there is no necessary to place so many animals and mobs in wvw.

Tab or point and click targeting. The same as every MMO. As well there is a reason for mobs in WvW. You really shouldn’t makes claims about aspects, when you do not have an understanding of their purpose and existance.

Guyver.1426:

It may be fun for third party NPC to intercept fight, but I don’t want some mobs hanging around there to screw me up. Wvw battle land looks like a national park. It is exactly one of the problem of wvw. WOW’s battle ground Alterac Valley has better design.

Tough luck, sorry you don’t like it. They serve a purpose for the rest of us. It is unlikely they will. The problem here is you seem to think your way is the only way, and expect them to build the game around you and hose the rest of us. That is unreasonable, and unfair.

Guyver.1426:

In pve, I suggest NPC dialogue box keep close during event. It is very annoying to press interact to loot but call the dialogue box out instead.

If your talking to NPCs while trying to loot, then your screwing up. Yet your here blaming the system because you chose not to have the F key as an AoE button. It is si disheartening to see players make bad choices as you appear to have, then come here and blame the devs or the game.

Guyver.1426:

I’m curious why some bugs in GW2 still not fixed, for examples, trapped between wall while repairing, try picking up/ interacting same item by 2 guys makes one can’t use weapon skill, and skill bugs. It is rare for a Blizzard game to tolerate a bug more than 3 months.

Can I have some of what your having? I can think of 4 bugs that blizzard hasn’t been able to fix since release. That is 10 years. If you are claiming this isn’t the case, you are speaking on maters you are fully unacknowledged about, or being dishonest. They had an off site panel on this ad blizzcon for pete sake.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Tab or point and click targeting. The same as every MMO. As well there is a reason for mobs in WvW. You really shouldn’t makes claims about aspects, when you do not have an understanding of their purpose and existance.

The same way but bad performance.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Tough luck, sorry you don’t like it. They serve a purpose for the rest of us. It is unlikely they will. The problem here is you seem to think your way is the only way, and expect them to build the game around you and hose the rest of us. That is unreasonable, and unfair.

All players want to play what they want. It doesn’t mean they are unfair or unreasonable.

dancingmonkey.4902:

If your talking to NPCs while trying to loot, then your screwing up. Yet your here blaming the system because you chose not to have the F key as an AoE button. It is si disheartening to see players make bad choices as you appear to have, then come here and blame the devs or the game.

I always loot by AoE and I have made a hotkey for loot. I said my suggestion not to blame. I think you are the person don’t understand.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Can I have some of what your having? I can think of 4 bugs that blizzard hasn’t been able to fix since release. That is 10 years. If you are claiming this isn’t the case, you are speaking on maters you are fully unacknowledged about, or being dishonest. They had an off site panel on this ad blizzcon for pete sake.

I said “rare” not “no”. Can you see the difference?

No, the targeting is the same. You are misrepresenting it intentionally to try to shoe horn misinformation into supporting you opinion.

It does mean it is unreasonable to attack aspect of the game and state your opinion as if it were fact. Particularly when you imply there is something wrong with the game for not catering to you. All of that is a smaller matter when compared to the fact that you represent it in such a matter that demonstrates, that you do not care how your demands are detrimental to the rest of the player base.

If speaking to NPCs while trying to loot is not a problem, then why do you declare a need to change it? Why should I be locked out of speaking to an NPC simply because others are doing an event? That seems unreasonable to demand a change that hold up my progress at what I am doing, because you might speak to an NPC when you want to loot something.

I don’t think rare means what you think it means. I was just browsing a bug list page on the WoW forums. They had a thread that had 3 pages of bugs that players there are complaining about having existed since its beta 10-11 years ago. Another 3 pages of bugs for each and every expansion since. Perhaps before you lash out at someone for how you misrepresent your perspective, falsely implying that blizzard is any better or worse then any other company with bugs. It appears to me that they have a much larger portion of bugs that have lasted for 1-2 times the lifespan of GW2 entirely. I would hardly use that as a stellar example.

Prysin.8542:

MonMalthias.4763:

snip of own post

There is the other side too namely setups that counter the very strong “general” builds such as DD ele and engi.
Among them is most condi ranger builds due to massive poison uptime which helps shut down the healing. However condi ranger is against countered by burst thief which is countered by DD ele which is countered by condi ranger again.
So while it may not look like it, there is a “circle of power” that may not be as obvious unless you know how every build on every profession works.

I am not saying rangers hardcounter eles, but give the ranger and ele equal skill and a ST AD rabid/celestial ranger will outperform the ele due to evasion, CC and poison. The other conditions is on low cooldowns allowing for several condition bursts if played correctly. The low HP pool of eles cannot take this treatment, and usually you can burn through all the cleanses a ele got within 12-15 seconds if playing your cards right.

Right, but the build you just mentioned ( I presume you mean something like this? ) is, as you yourselkittennowledged, a soft counter to generalists like Cele D/D 00266 Ele. The matchups that I am referring to are the insuperable ones; as in; matchups that require too many circumstantial advantages for the “losing side” and a large skill advantage over the “winning side” to be concievably winnable.

I feel that more builds and circumstances like your Condi Bleed ranger against Cele Ele should be in game as opposed to some extremely lopsided matchups in game right now, like DPS Guard vs Zerker Thief; or Shatter Mesmer vs Staff Ele or the classic “hardest of counters” Condi Necro vs most meta Engineer builds. That so many of these matchups put almost all the burden of skill on the defender is a worrying trend. It’s circumstances like these that will inevitably put the meta back into 2012-2013 – where at least 1-2 classes languished every single meta. (Warrior post Quickness Nerf; into Ranger post Spirits nerf, into Elementalist post Water Magic nerf(s)).

The meta’s the healthiest it’s ever been; with all 8 classes boasting at least 1 build that makes them meta worthy. That’s something that Arenanet could not possibly even hope to claim last year; and I applaud them for their achievement. But again, the contemptuous ease by which this fragile detente can be shattered is very real. Thief and Warrior, so long being top dog; are fading. Bunker Guardian, so long a staple of Conquest, may well be sidelined altogether in the face of Lord Rush that from what has been seen so far, emphasises mobility. It’s being sidelined even now in fact, due to Cele Ele.

I think that the QoL changes this patch are great, safe, and nicely conservative. But again, that hasn’t stopped Anet from dropping meta-shattering changes that went relatively undocumented until extremely late in the Patch Preview process. (See: Deceptive Evasion last year until shouted down, or the Eleventh hour reprieve against Perplexity Runes being introduced to PvP in April).

To corrupt a certain statesman’s phrase, the price of balance is eternal vigilance; and we as a community have at times not been vigilant. (See: Warrior becoming OP not immediately after Dhuumfire, but being demonstrated to be OP in September, at PAX; by which it then was another 11 more months of Warrior domination until just recently. That Runes and Sigils are now so powerful, so build defining; so multiplicative, only adds to the balance minefield that Anet has to navigate.

Clearly the way forward is to reduce the power creep of Runes and Sigils. The QoL changes don’t really change the meta significantly; but that’s because the outlier combos haven’t been touched.

MonMalthias.4763:

Prysin.8542:

MonMalthias.4763:

snip of own post

There is the other side too namely setups that counter the very strong “general” builds such as DD ele and engi.
Among them is most condi ranger builds due to massive poison uptime which helps shut down the healing. However condi ranger is against countered by burst thief which is countered by DD ele which is countered by condi ranger again.
So while it may not look like it, there is a “circle of power” that may not be as obvious unless you know how every build on every profession works.

I am not saying rangers hardcounter eles, but give the ranger and ele equal skill and a ST AD rabid/celestial ranger will outperform the ele due to evasion, CC and poison. The other conditions is on low cooldowns allowing for several condition bursts if played correctly. The low HP pool of eles cannot take this treatment, and usually you can burn through all the cleanses a ele got within 12-15 seconds if playing your cards right.

Right, but the build you just mentioned ( I presume you mean something like this? ) is, as you yourselkittennowledged, a soft counter to generalists like Cele D/D 00266 Ele. The matchups that I am referring to are the insuperable ones; as in; matchups that require too many circumstantial advantages for the “losing side” and a large skill advantage over the “winning side” to be concievably winnable.

I feel that more builds and circumstances like your Condi Bleed ranger against Cele Ele should be in game as opposed to some extremely lopsided matchups in game right now, like DPS Guard vs Zerker Thief; or Shatter Mesmer vs Staff Ele or the classic “hardest of counters” Condi Necro vs most meta Engineer builds. That so many of these matchups put almost all the burden of skill on the defender is a worrying trend. It’s circumstances like these that will inevitably put the meta back into 2012-2013 – where at least 1-2 classes languished every single meta. (Warrior post Quickness Nerf; into Ranger post Spirits nerf, into Elementalist post Water Magic nerf(s)).

The meta’s the healthiest it’s ever been; with all 8 classes boasting at least 1 build that makes them meta worthy. That’s something that Arenanet could not possibly even hope to claim last year; and I applaud them for their achievement. But again, the contemptuous ease by which this fragile detente can be shattered is very real. Thief and Warrior, so long being top dog; are fading. Bunker Guardian, so long a staple of Conquest, may well be sidelined altogether in the face of Lord Rush that from what has been seen so far, emphasises mobility. It’s being sidelined even now in fact, due to Cele Ele.

I think that the QoL changes this patch are great, safe, and nicely conservative. But again, that hasn’t stopped Anet from dropping meta-shattering changes that went relatively undocumented until extremely late in the Patch Preview process. (See: Deceptive Evasion last year until shouted down, or the Eleventh hour reprieve against Perplexity Runes being introduced to PvP in April).

To corrupt a certain statesman’s phrase, the price of balance is eternal vigilance; and we as a community have at times not been vigilant. (See: Warrior becoming OP not immediately after Dhuumfire, but being demonstrated to be OP in September, at PAX; by which it then was another 11 more months of Warrior domination until just recently. That Runes and Sigils are now so powerful, so build defining; so multiplicative, only adds to the balance minefield that Anet has to navigate.

Clearly the way forward is to reduce the power creep of Runes and Sigils. The QoL changes don’t really change the meta significantly; but that’s because the outlier combos haven’t been touched.

This is a really good post though I don’t agree on nerfing runes and sigils.

I agree fully with MonMalthias – runes and sigils should be flavor to whatever you want to do, not defining. Anet – put more effort into the classes themselves, and don’t focus so much on the sigils/runes.

+1 .

MonMalthias.4763:

Text worth reading

Oh my golly gosh.

This post (sadly too long to quote) is so incredibly true and worded so beautifully that it deserves more attention than the entire rest of this thread’s content. If I recall correctly, I believe I also stated something like this as well for one of you other analyses which is the possible contender in question

Please, do make another thread with this if you haven’t already. I would like to further endorse this and try to give it the attention it deserves.

I hope it includes making more skills overpowered or at least feel overpowered.
I actually mean that.

I think as far as perceived feel of combat flow goes, having every action (or at least the right-hand side actions) you take feel like it’s having a very significant impact on the outcome of the battle makes for a more fun game.
There are currently a handful of abilities which feel like they can change things massively, given the right situations. Rezz Banner, Feedback (or rather area-reflects in general), etc. Problem is, even these only really feel strong in very specific situations. Which is exactly where they need to be, only with the majority of abilities so lackluster, there’s no alternatives.

So in other words, I’d make utilities and elites balance entirely by being unable to bring all of them. They should be overpowered on their own, and balanced only once you realize that for every 3 Utility you have, you can’t take another 40 and the other party also has 3 per person.
This also adds a lot of specialization to each character. Someone equipping boon-giving effects would be really powerful at that (and someone without them consequently ~ignorable).

MonMalthias.4763

snip, long quote

I was referrung to ST AD, whilst it cannot produce the bleedstacks of a sb setup, it can burst more often and in a much more potent way. It applies more stress as you get more evades to play with thus more damage mitigation and also the addition of burning further increases damage.

Prysin.8542:

MonMalthias.4763

snip, long quote

I was referrung to ST AD, whilst it cannot produce the bleedstacks of a sb setup, it can burst more often and in a much more potent way. It applies more stress as you get more evades to play with thus more damage mitigation and also the addition of burning further increases damage.

I don’t main Ranger but sure, I can see where the Sword/Torch Axe/Dagger combo could be strong. The evades could definitely help with fighting on point; and Burning adds some condi variety to cover against the cleansing.

Can’t say I’ve played the class enough in PVP to make a judgement one way or another. But just going back to my earlier point of soft counter outplay vs hard counters; I think that the state of the game as it is right now has never been better; but there is still a lot Anet can do to make the meta a lot more dynamic by making even the “hard counter” matchups 70/30 and there have been many threads across both the SPVP forums and in Profession Balance that point the way forward.

Carighan.6758:

I hope it includes making more skills overpowered or at least feel overpowered.
I actually mean that.

I think as far as perceived feel of combat flow goes, having every action (or at least the right-hand side actions) you take feel like it’s having a very significant impact on the outcome of the battle makes for a more fun game.
There are currently a handful of abilities which feel like they can change things massively, given the right situations. Rezz Banner, Feedback (or rather area-reflects in general), etc. Problem is, even these only really feel strong in very specific situations. Which is exactly where they need to be, only with the majority of abilities so lackluster, there’s no alternatives.

So in other words, I’d make utilities and elites balance entirely by being unable to bring all of them. They should be overpowered on their own, and balanced only once you realize that for every 3 Utility you have, you can’t take another 40 and the other party also has 3 per person.
This also adds a lot of specialization to each character. Someone equipping boon-giving effects would be really powerful at that (and someone without them consequently ~ignorable).

I think that there’s certainly a place to make every thing “feel” overpowered but I think it’s better to design things towards fulfilling a particular role and achieving a particular build setup. Combinations of Utilities, properly supported with Traits like Meditation Guardian can feel strong yet as we all know, still leave deficiencies in a build.

You’re absolutely correct that things like the Feedback bubble and Warrior Elite Banner feel powerful. I think it’s actually a little strange that more Mesmers haven’t taken up Feedback in particular; nor Null Field, in this projectile and Boon heavy meta. Perhaps it’s the feeling that every Mesmer should be taking Portal, Blink and Decoy (Standard Shatter) (or in WvW, Veil, Portal, Blink).

Of any class, Mesmer has the most interesting and situationally powerful Utilities and I do think that it’s certainly something that Anet can take and apply to other classes. But given the way Mesmer has evolved and is played now, do you think that making every utility situationally OP is going to be enough? Because what’s going to happen is that people are going to take the utilities that are the most combo-tastic (Portal, Blink) and discard the rest. With Mesmer, that is certainly what has happened (RIP Illusion of Life); as it has with Elementalist Glyphs, Engineer Gadgets, Warrior Physicals, Necromancer Signets (does anyone remember when Signet of Undeath was still run?), Ranger Shouts – the list goes on.

I think that the ongoing evolution of the Conquest PVP meta has demonstrated that only the builds that have the widest relative applicability – balancing Mobility, Damage and Defense with role defining capabilities (Guardian Stability access, Warrior CC train, Necromancer ultimate Condition pressure, Elementalist/Engineer adaptability, Ranger off point pressure, Thief mobility/burst, Mesmer Utility/Burst – rise to the top.

Until there are more game modes that really emphasise the teamfight-turning power of the skills you mention, I don’t think that there is too much more room to grow each profession. We might see it with Lord Rush, we might not. What’s clear is that the current meta builds for each respective class are differentiated in role, utility and team synergy. Whether they’ll still compete in a context that does not revolve around running around on capture points remains to be seen; but I get the feeling that they’ll still be around.

Guys!

These are really constructive posts! I thought the forum community is toxic but you demonstrated the opposite. There is still hope!

Only reading through this page made my day after a hard work.

Keep them coming and open a new topic for this discussion!

Have a nice day all!

Guardian shield:

4# -> 500 base dmg (plus %dmg how many toughness you have) + gives protect to 5 allies in front of player and stuns 3 enemies for 1.5s (300 range , 35sec CD)
5# -> same thing but more duration 6sec and you can move while channeling (30 sec cd)

guardian hammer:
1# 3rd swing faster
4# 1/2 sec cast
5# -> 7 sec duration

1. possibility shout heal skill “For Victory”-> 3k to self + 1k per allies close to player + regen 2 sec (+1 for every player healed that way, max 5) – 30sec CD

Ranger Shortbow changes:

Crossfire: now applies bleeding without planking.
old version: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crossfire

Poison Volley: now pierces. update accuracy.

Quick Shot: now applies swiftness regardless. pet’s next attack inflict weakness.

Crippling Shot: increase cripple duration to 5seconds. Change description back to Shatter your foe’s dreams of becoming an adventurer with a single arrow to the knee.

Concussion Shot: same. give your pet attack of opportunity if hits. lower cool down reduction to 20s.

AEFA.9035:

Ranger Shortbow changes:

Crossfire: now applies bleeding without planking.
old version: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crossfire

Poison Volley: now pierces. update accuracy.

Quick Shot: now applies swiftness regardless. pet’s next attack inflict weakness.

Crippling Shot: increase cripple duration to 5seconds. Change description back to Shatter your foe’s dreams of becoming an adventurer with a single arrow to the knee.

Concussion Shot: same. give your pet attack of opportunity if hits. lower cool down reduction to 20s.

Crossfire would be wildly overpowered. The bleed-stacking rate is just too high if it applied every attack. They simply would have to nerf the bleeds if this were to go into effect.

Ragnarox.9601:

guardian hammer:
1# 3rd swing faster

100 times this. at least down to 1 sec, preferably 3/4 sec.

Julie Yann.5379:

Ragnarox.9601:

guardian hammer:
1# 3rd swing faster

100 times this. at least down to 1 sec, preferably 3/4 sec.

3/4 might be too powerful, but I agree that should be 1 sec.

Also, the 3rd swing #1 on mace should be 3/4 and #2 should be 1 sec or even 3/4. And allow to cast the sequence on #3 of mace sooner. Then would be more fun to play with mace.

MonMalthias.4763:

Prysin.8542:

MonMalthias.4763:

snip of own post

There is the other side too namely setups that counter the very strong “general” builds such as DD ele and engi.
Among them is most condi ranger builds due to massive poison uptime which helps shut down the healing. However condi ranger is against countered by burst thief which is countered by DD ele which is countered by condi ranger again.
So while it may not look like it, there is a “circle of power” that may not be as obvious unless you know how every build on every profession works.

I am not saying rangers hardcounter eles, but give the ranger and ele equal skill and a ST AD rabid/celestial ranger will outperform the ele due to evasion, CC and poison. The other conditions is on low cooldowns allowing for several condition bursts if played correctly. The low HP pool of eles cannot take this treatment, and usually you can burn through all the cleanses a ele got within 12-15 seconds if playing your cards right.

Right, but the build you just mentioned ( I presume you mean something like this? ) is, as you yourselkittennowledged, a soft counter to generalists like Cele D/D 00266 Ele. The matchups that I am referring to are the insuperable ones; as in; matchups that require too many circumstantial advantages for the “losing side” and a large skill advantage over the “winning side” to be concievably winnable.

I feel that more builds and circumstances like your Condi Bleed ranger against Cele Ele should be in game as opposed to some extremely lopsided matchups in game right now, like DPS Guard vs Zerker Thief; or Shatter Mesmer vs Staff Ele or the classic “hardest of counters” Condi Necro vs most meta Engineer builds. That so many of these matchups put almost all the burden of skill on the defender is a worrying trend. It’s circumstances like these that will inevitably put the meta back into 2012-2013 – where at least 1-2 classes languished every single meta. (Warrior post Quickness Nerf; into Ranger post Spirits nerf, into Elementalist post Water Magic nerf(s)).

The meta’s the healthiest it’s ever been; with all 8 classes boasting at least 1 build that makes them meta worthy. That’s something that Arenanet could not possibly even hope to claim last year; and I applaud them for their achievement. But again, the contemptuous ease by which this fragile detente can be shattered is very real. Thief and Warrior, so long being top dog; are fading. Bunker Guardian, so long a staple of Conquest, may well be sidelined altogether in the face of Lord Rush that from what has been seen so far, emphasises mobility. It’s being sidelined even now in fact, due to Cele Ele.

I think that the QoL changes this patch are great, safe, and nicely conservative. But again, that hasn’t stopped Anet from dropping meta-shattering changes that went relatively undocumented until extremely late in the Patch Preview process. (See: Deceptive Evasion last year until shouted down, or the Eleventh hour reprieve against Perplexity Runes being introduced to PvP in April).

To corrupt a certain statesman’s phrase, the price of balance is eternal vigilance; and we as a community have at times not been vigilant. (See: Warrior becoming OP not immediately after Dhuumfire, but being demonstrated to be OP in September, at PAX; by which it then was another 11 more months of Warrior domination until just recently. That Runes and Sigils are now so powerful, so build defining; so multiplicative, only adds to the balance minefield that Anet has to navigate.

Clearly the way forward is to reduce the power creep of Runes and Sigils. The QoL changes don’t really change the meta significantly; but that’s because the outlier combos haven’t been touched.

This is quite possibly the most beautiful post i have read today..
Very nice

Solori.6025:

MonMalthias.4763:

Prysin.8542:

MonMalthias.4763:

snip of own post

There is the other side too namely setups that counter the very strong “general” builds such as DD ele and engi.
Among them is most condi ranger builds due to massive poison uptime which helps shut down the healing. However condi ranger is against countered by burst thief which is countered by DD ele which is countered by condi ranger again.
So while it may not look like it, there is a “circle of power” that may not be as obvious unless you know how every build on every profession works.

I am not saying rangers hardcounter eles, but give the ranger and ele equal skill and a ST AD rabid/celestial ranger will outperform the ele due to evasion, CC and poison. The other conditions is on low cooldowns allowing for several condition bursts if played correctly. The low HP pool of eles cannot take this treatment, and usually you can burn through all the cleanses a ele got within 12-15 seconds if playing your cards right.

Right, but the build you just mentioned ( I presume you mean something like this? ) is, as you yourselkittennowledged, a soft counter to generalists like Cele D/D 00266 Ele. The matchups that I am referring to are the insuperable ones; as in; matchups that require too many circumstantial advantages for the “losing side” and a large skill advantage over the “winning side” to be concievably winnable.

I feel that more builds and circumstances like your Condi Bleed ranger against Cele Ele should be in game as opposed to some extremely lopsided matchups in game right now, like DPS Guard vs Zerker Thief; or Shatter Mesmer vs Staff Ele or the classic “hardest of counters” Condi Necro vs most meta Engineer builds. That so many of these matchups put almost all the burden of skill on the defender is a worrying trend. It’s circumstances like these that will inevitably put the meta back into 2012-2013 – where at least 1-2 classes languished every single meta. (Warrior post Quickness Nerf; into Ranger post Spirits nerf, into Elementalist post Water Magic nerf(s)).

The meta’s the healthiest it’s ever been; with all 8 classes boasting at least 1 build that makes them meta worthy. That’s something that Arenanet could not possibly even hope to claim last year; and I applaud them for their achievement. But again, the contemptuous ease by which this fragile detente can be shattered is very real. Thief and Warrior, so long being top dog; are fading. Bunker Guardian, so long a staple of Conquest, may well be sidelined altogether in the face of Lord Rush that from what has been seen so far, emphasises mobility. It’s being sidelined even now in fact, due to Cele Ele.

I think that the QoL changes this patch are great, safe, and nicely conservative. But again, that hasn’t stopped Anet from dropping meta-shattering changes that went relatively undocumented until extremely late in the Patch Preview process. (See: Deceptive Evasion last year until shouted down, or the Eleventh hour reprieve against Perplexity Runes being introduced to PvP in April).

To corrupt a certain statesman’s phrase, the price of balance is eternal vigilance; and we as a community have at times not been vigilant. (See: Warrior becoming OP not immediately after Dhuumfire, but being demonstrated to be OP in September, at PAX; by which it then was another 11 more months of Warrior domination until just recently. That Runes and Sigils are now so powerful, so build defining; so multiplicative, only adds to the balance minefield that Anet has to navigate.

Clearly the way forward is to reduce the power creep of Runes and Sigils. The QoL changes don’t really change the meta significantly; but that’s because the outlier combos haven’t been touched.

This is quite possibly the most beautiful post i have read today..
Very nice

+1
also, Rangers need to go back to condi, the LB buff has people forgetting that the Ranger was already powerful