Guild Wars 2

Well, they could move condition duration to skirmishing and critical damage to marksmanship.

Chokolata.1870:

Well, they could move condition duration to skirmishing and critical damage to marksmanship.

Why do people keep wanting to do this? One of the main complaints we have as a class is being shoehorned into Wilderness Survival, so why is everybody wanting to put Condi Duration in Skirmishing while leaving Wilderness Survival alone to keep the current problem, when we could put Condition Damage there and make it so Wilderness Survival isn’t so mandatory for condi builds?

If you touch wilderness survival you will pretty much ruin every existing build. By swapping Marksmanship and Skirmishing stats you open more builds while leaving the old ones alive.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

We have also been discussing this internally and agree that it is awkward to be forced to take a trait in order to receive the active effects of signets. Obviously some balance work would need to be done on the signets as well as redesigning the trait. Definitely a good idea and something we are thinking about. =)

I really like how signets are right now. They are very powerful, and need the grandmaster trait to tap into sharing their power with the player. I feel nerfing these numbers so that the signets start off with just covering the player will be a direction down the wrong path. Honestly, some of the active affects of the signets right now need to be buffed a little.

Proposal
Look into shouts and improving shouts for rangers. Condition removal and other skills work to actively kill our pet/class mechanic.

Right now shouts can be very buggy, whether it’s “Search and Rescue” (pet getting there a little too late, or downed person is just outside of pet range, etc.) or “Guard” getting cancelled by hitting F1/F3, needs to be looked at. Signet of renewal transfers all of our conditions to the pet. Classes such as warrior and guardian can cleanse their conditions (sometimes multiple times in a short time frame) without any negative effect. If a ranger wants to cleanse their conditions, it is transferred to the pet, and the pet dies/gets seriously injured. Would it be possible to have the pet “cleanse” us without transferring the conditions to itself, thus killing itself and us losing out on dps/class mechanic?

Arrys.7145:

runeblade.7514:

Atherakhia.4086:

Chokolata.1870:

The longbow is easy to fix:
-compress the Rapid fire into 2.5 seconds from 4.5 seconds, keep total damage the same
-hunter shot stealths on shot not on hit
-allow movement during barrage channel

There, I fixed it… tsk

You’ve made it better, but it’s still an incomplete weapon. There’s no synergy between the attacks like there are with melee weapons. No real flow. You’ve also left the problem where Barrage and Hunter’s Shot are counter intuitive because you can stealth then barrage but you can’t barrage and then stealth. This is why barrage needs to be removed from the weapon. It just doesn’t make any sense the way it’s set up currently.

I disagree with this.

I like Barrage because it is a anti-melee pressure skill. Rangers always complain that people always get out of barrage aoe. So, I like to capitalize on that mind set and make barrage a anti-melee field. I use it to surround myself and shoot people from afar.

I wish barrage cooldown is lowered.

Longbow synergizes quite well for mixed damage builds. And barrage and hunters shot being counter intuitive seems counter intuitive. Layered damage and advanced preparation to resist generate damage is designed into us. From preloaded traps and spirits to SoH….

By setting up our opponents so multiple damages all come to bear in a short order that took us a decent bit longer to set up.

The KB ensures your stealth hits if you choose to not combo your disengage with a stealth drop target to prevent a quick leap as your big fat pet runs behind you creating a click target issue….So be it. It works.

If one doesn’t get the value of being able to bury your vulnerability with opening strikes then refresh it with a traited longbow. So be it.

Barrage not only layers damage people blow cleanses. And use dodges and weaken themselves….Or they run slowly at me and a stack of traps that applies my conditions in precise order….

The stealth is a near must to drop you elite spirit and prevent interupt. Our stealth mass raise. Don’t forget stealth finish potential downed doesn’t dodge.

And my break away KB stealth are both finishers….Or an extra 1500ish damage un might climbed as I disengage, extra 2 seconds of chill….

The weapon has synergy. It’s quite good.

Skirmishers shouldn’t self cc. remove the self rooting.

Don’t break my longbow please…

The problem is the layered damage you mention comes in the form of utility skills, not 2 weapon skills on the same weapon being counter intuitive. Can you think of another weapon that has this issue? Where a single weapon has 2 skills that can never work together? I can’t off hand, but if there are please mention them.

The only internal synergy you mentioned in your post was that of using knock back + stealth? Chaining 2 utility skills like that makes no sense whatsoever.

And barrage itself is just so incredibly weak for what it does. I’d much rather see it moved to a utility skill and improved so it’s actually something worth using more often. Right now it’s only used on walls and on zergs. But in these situations it’s not used for the CC value, it’s used for the delayed damage (in the case of walls) and for AE loot spam. Cripple just isn’t the area denial you’re making it out to be.

Taushullu.6180:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

We have also been discussing this internally and agree that it is awkward to be forced to take a trait in order to receive the active effects of signets. Obviously some balance work would need to be done on the signets as well as redesigning the trait. Definitely a good idea and something we are thinking about. =)

Here’s what I would like to see done to signets.

Signet changes in 5 steps:

1. Signet passive effects affect both ranger and pet, active effects ranger only.
2. Signet of the Beastmaster merged with Signet Mastery. New effect:
   • Signet of the Beastmaster: Signets recharge 20% faster. Active effects of signets also affect your pets.
3. Beastmaster’s Might gets a more supporting role by granting might to nearby allies on signet activation (3 stacks for 15s / 600 radius).
4. New grandmaster trait to replace old SotB. New trait:
   • Primal Echoes: Active effects of signets also affect nearby allies. (Signet actives are (PvE: 50%, PvP: 33%) as effective on allies / 360 radius)
5. Few signet active effects need to be reworked.
   1. Signet of the Wild (active): Enlargement effect is removed and activation time reduced to 1/4s. Grants stability (8s) and breaks stun. 60s cd.
   2. Signet of Renewal (active): Removes all conditions from yourself (not from nearby allies) instead of transferring them to your pet. 60s cd.
   3. Signet of the Hunt (PvP active): Damage bonus changed to +30%.

If anyone is wondering about those percentages, this is what I was aiming for .

Primal Echoes (PvE) + Signet of the Hunt (PvE) = 25% damage bonus to allies.
Primal Echoes (PvP) + Signet of the Hunt (PvP) = 10% damage bonus to allies.

No idea how these changes would affect the current balance, though.

I like this, it gives the ranger some much needed team support.

Specific Game Mode: WvW, specific areas of PvE

Proposal Overview: Enhance the ability of Rangers to perform in situations calling for heavy AOE offense and defense, specifically by increasing the ability of pets to deal AOE damage and survive it. The proposal is divided into two parts, one dealing with AOE offense and one dealing with options for a new active mitigation mechanic to allow pets to participate in large-scale combat. Many suggestions have already been proposed to address these issues, but are either phrased in very broad terminologies or unrealistic in scope/timeframe. This proposal aims to use relatively small variations that don’t require huge changes to basic mechanics.

Goal of Proposal: Rangers currently suffer from not being able to participate effectively in large-scale combat (and sometimes even at the level of small groups) in WvW and in situations in PvE which require sustained AOE damage. This is partially because a large portion of Ranger damage and utility is reliant on pets, which currently have poor ability to give out and take AOE damage. This proposal aims to shore up this weakness by giving some families of pets the ability to deal with these situations reliably.

Proposal Functionality:

Part 1- Offensive Pet Families

Currently, only one Ranger pet family, drakes, has any ability to deal AOE damage effectively due to the ability to cleave on basic attacks and their blast finisher. One family out of a potential ten that can effectively AOE results in limitation of build diversity, and non-drake pets are simply not valuable as damage dealers or controllers in large-scale fights. Therefore, more families of pets should be allowed to cleave on their basic attacks and other abilities as appropriate. Below is a proposed list of families that could be turned to an AOE focus.

Bears- Given their low damage, huge tankiness, and the AOE of most of their F2 abilities, bears seem like a natural fit for Rangers that know their pets will be entering high-damage areas or that want to provide some AOE but can’t invest much into their pet. Basic attack should cleave and could even warrant a small increase in damage given that bear damage is incredibly low; Bite should also cleave, granting Regen for each enemy hit (possibly 6s per enemy hit, making this change a buff to survival if the bear hits 2 or 3 enemies).

Birds- One of the fragile, high-damage families of ranger pets should be capable of providing AOE damage, allowing Rangers skilled in pet management and tactical decision making to be rewarded by high AOE damage with low margin for error. Felines could also easily be made to fill this role- one family should be capable of AOE damage, with the other better at dueling and dealing with low numbers of targets. Basic attack, Swoop, and F2 abilities should all be allowed to cleave, possibly with a minor reduction in damage to compensate.

Drakes- In a fairly good spot as-is, although F2 abilities could certainly use a cast-time reduction given their clunkiness, and Chomp could be balanced with the ability to cleave similarly to Bite for bears. Drakes provide a good middle ground between damage, utility, and tankiness compared to the other families listed.

Spider- Spiders are a pet family capable of providing debuffs and control with relatively low damage. With a splash radius added to their abilities, they could provide a valuable source of utility in group situations, as contrasted to canines, which would have more potent control abilities but be better in single-target situations. Spit and Entangling Web would be given an AOE radius centered around their original target, with a reduction in Web’s duration to 2 seconds since it would likely be too powerful at 3. F2 abilities could provide an increase to the AOE radius of the Spider’s attacks while they are active, increasing the likelihood that they will cause widespread disruption.

(Cont’d)

(Cont’d)

With these changes, four pet families would be able to provide damage or utility in an AOE, with six (Canines, Devourers, Felines, Moas, Porcines) being more focused on single target damage (although Moas would likely be classed as AOE support, so they are borderline). This would provide much more freedom in building Rangers for group combat and would allow Rangers to decide what balance of safety, damage, and utility they need out of their pets in these situations.

Associated Risks- Some abilities, like Entangling Web and Bird damage in general, would likely need to be reduced in effectiveness to maintain balance among pet families. Additionally, these changes would likely represent wasted effort if they were not implemented along with some form of defense for pets in AOE situations beyond Signet of Stone, which is useful but tied to a very long cooldown and incompatible with many builds which are strapped for utility slots as-is. This defense is the second part of the proposal, which will be posted at a later time.

misterdevious.6482:

[…] to spam the Guard skill for Swiftness and Regen […]

Condi (bunker) rangers who want to use condi off hand weapons (torch/dagger), instead off useless ones (warhorn) or useless signet, and spend between 30 or 40 points in order to have swiftness , are “spamming guard” ? What’s wrong with that ? (and regen is quiet anecdotal, please ).

First off, thank you Roy for taking some time to respond in this thread. As per your ‘direction’ some of my thoughts on Signets. Seeing I already posted 2 suggestions ‘in format’ regarding them, a small reiteration, followed by my further thoughts.

1. Signets may well offer themselves to be renamed to ‘charms’, in order to strengthen the nature theme of the ranger.

2. Signets may well offer a reliable way to provide team support.

Other thoughts about signets:

• Seeing the Ranger and Pet are a unity, as per design, atleast passive ‘charm’ use should influence both by default. (this would make signet of renewal combo decently with Empathic bond f/e)

• The choice between activation or passive effect should be made more interesting. Pretty much all the passive effects of ‘charms’ are better than their actives. And to make matter worse, the recharge on most ‘charms’ is rather long.

• ‘charms’ are currently set in the Marksmanship trait line, when looking at atleast 2 of the charm passives (carrying some sort of ‘heal’ effect), PLUS that these signets are geared a lot towards passive pet ‘bonding’, they might be better off in the Beastmaster-line. Offering a choice between ‘charms’ and ‘shouts’ as ways to a passive (charm) and active (shouts) way to interact with your pet in a Beastmaster’y way.

Leads to which would lead me to conclude there are now two ways to interact with your pet in a category that has the ‘healing power’ stat linked to it. This, in my views, would make it logical to have ‘activated charm’ effects that affect allies. This could lead to interesting choices ‘per definition’ as you end up with a choice between you+pet OR your allies. (hopefully the exclusion of you+pet ‘as allies’ is an option in the programming).

THEN changing ‘Charm of the Beastmaster’ to read, activated charm abilities also effect you and your pet, would validate a grandmaster trait level, it would skew the choice towards ‘activation’, and as such could make ‘charms’ a more interesting mechanic. While at the same time giving the ‘charm’ user ways to support allies, which makes a lot of sense in a healing stat trait tree.

Results in the need to make room in the Beastmaster line. This can be achieved by:
- Move all ‘charms’ related traits to Beastmastery

- moving Mighty swap to skirmish
- removing the ‘beast family property’ traits and make them 2 ‘all pet’ traits instead.
- moving Zyphyr’s speed to skirmish

- remove Agility training (and give pets a higher base speed to buff them) or remove trappers defense, which ‘by all means’ is just a space filler.
- moving Moment of Clarity to Marksmanship

- This would make room for 1 adept and 1 master trait to be added to ‘Marksmanship’ which may well be what we all need to make ‘Power Rangers’ a more viable option.

freedom
- I will refrain from giving suggestions for activated abilities on ‘charms’ there are more then enough suggestion in this thread, and I am sure you are capable of coming up with useful, interesting, sensemaking and needed effects for charm activation.

RISK for this suggestion
The risk lies mainly in the option to exclude ‘pet and self’ from being perceived as ‘allies’ by default. But even without this, it would automatically skew the use of ‘charms’ for their activated ability, which I think is not a bad thing. It would just mean that ‘Charm of the Beastmaster’ would need a different functionality.

1500+ note and 26k+ view
I hope somebody will do something.

Give to Rangers weapons access to immob.

We need to counter so many gap closers that is hard to stay ranged in spvp

Would it be easier to change the traps themselves to gain a unique benefit from Critical Damage/Ferocity?

e.g. (trait) Traps can crit when applying conditions. This converts xx% of your Ferocity into Condition Duration for these stacks.

Jocksy.3415:

Terravos.4059:

…….

Why am I continuing to read about Rangers wanting Traps moved out of the Skirmishing Line?

Precision is not a bad stat for Traps, Crit Damage is..But then again, I’m not basing my spec off what Stats the line actually gets, I’m basing it off the traits…

Every time I see a Ranger say something like “Traps don’t belong in Skirmishing, they should be in Wilderness Survival” I facepalm because it shows what a complete lack of understanding a lot of Rangers have about the class.

If you move the Trap traits to Wilderness, You’re just going to nerf yourself, Because its a line you’re going to pick up anyway if you’re a Trap Ranger..Because it has all your bloody defensive traits… The only thing moving those traits will do, Is make it so you lose all your defensive traits picking up Trap Traits..

There is also nothing in the other lines that you could remotely pickup that would be as good as those defensive traits that you’d be losing..NOTHING…There is nothing in Marksman, nothing in Natures, Nothing in Beast…NOTHING….

So please for the love of god, quit making silly suggestions like that..

Traps in skirmishing should have a better direct damage option.
And most of the suggestions I saw about those traits was to move them in the condi duration line (though I don’t see traps in marksmanship in a thematic view) or to move the condi duration or condi damage to skirmishing (not saying it all makes sense, just saying there is not just one proposal about those traits).
I would personally like to have them deal more direct damage (and have increased ranged), but I know this would mean lowering their base condi-damage, thus might not be a good thing overall for condi-build. And they would still not be so good in direct damages builds, because of their conditions.

But, if they were in the condi duration branch, one would only need to go get 20% more condi duration to have the traited versions be correct control options in zergs…

Your statement “Precision is not a bad stat for Traps, Crit Damage is.” is interesting, but I really don’t see how precision works with traps? None of these two stats do anaything for traps, as far as I know…

If people’s complaint about Traps is they don’t do enough Direct Damage, Simply Change 2 of them to have more Direct Damage that scales with Power

for Example, Spike Trap, You could Increase its Direct Damage up a lot more so that it scales with Power Better. Frost Trap could be your other High Direct Damage Trap That way you could actually have Power Based Trap Damage Builds

Switching Trap Traits out of Skirmishing isn’t the Solution, Because there is nothing wrong with those Traits, the problem with Skirmishing is the fact it has More Pet Traits then Beastmaster Line does.

4 of the Traits in the line are devoted to Pets…. 4….

You have 3 Traits in that line that work with Power Builds

Honed Axes – Which is a god awful trait in the first place…Its a Crit Damage boost for a Weapon that’s primarily a Condition Weapon, not a Power Based Weapon…If you’re doing Axe Offhand, You’re not going Axe Main hand, you’re probably going to do Sword.

Quickdraw – Which nothing is wrong with this ability, It reduces 8 abilities Cooldowns…Not terrible.

and Moment of Clarity – Again, a pretty good trait.

If you want to fix Skirmishing Line, get rid of those kitten Pet Traits that are clogging it up (Move them to Beastmaster) and put in actual Traits that are fairly decent for Power builds.

The Trap Traits aren’t the problem with the line

Cufufalating.8479:

Jocksy.3415:

Your statement “Precision is not a bad stat for Traps, Crit Damage is.” is interesting, but I really don’t see how precision works with traps? None of these two stats do anaything for traps, as far as I know…

Traps can crit, which in turns means they can proc On-Crit effects, and since the Bleed On Crit trait is very handily in the same traitline as the trap traits, along with the Precision stat, it becones of the very few ranger trait setups which actually synergise together well, because suddenly with 1-2 traps pulsing, you attacking (probably with Sigil of Earth and often times a SB) you can lay down 10+ bleeds pretty much out of nowhere on rediclously low CD, not to mention the potential AoE element of the on-crit bleeds.

I’ve used pretty much every trap build I can concieve with dire, carrion, rabid, celestial, even apothecary for a bit, and for me nothing comes close to a rabid or celestial setup, because those on-crits are where its at.

Sigil of Earth + Sharpened Edges, is 2 possible Bleed Procs everytime Burning Trap and Poison Trap Pulse.

It adds up incredibly fast with those 2 things.. and its the reason why Traps are scary..Because they put out a ton of Conditions really fast..

But lets not stop there

Most trappers will go Torch Offhand, and Bonfire will do the same thing as Flame Trap

It’ll pulse 8 times, Giving a chance to proc those 2 bleeds each time.

That is why Precision is so nasty for Trappers

Taushullu.6180:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

We have also been discussing this internally and agree that it is awkward to be forced to take a trait in order to receive the active effects of signets. Obviously some balance work would need to be done on the signets as well as redesigning the trait. Definitely a good idea and something we are thinking about. =)

Here’s what I would like to see done to signets.

Signet changes in 5 steps:

1. Signet passive effects affect both ranger and pet, active effects ranger only.
2. Signet of the Beastmaster merged with Signet Mastery. New effect:
   • Signet of the Beastmaster: Signets recharge 20% faster. Active effects of signets also affect your pets.
3. Beastmaster’s Might gets a more supporting role by granting might to nearby allies on signet activation (3 stacks for 15s / 600 radius).
4. New grandmaster trait to replace old SotB. New trait:
   • Primal Echoes: Active effects of signets also affect nearby allies. (Signet actives are (PvE: 50%, PvP: 33%) as effective on allies / 360 radius)
5. Few signet active effects need to be reworked.
   1. Signet of the Wild (active): Enlargement effect is removed and activation time reduced to 1/4s. Grants stability (8s) and breaks stun. 60s cd.
   2. Signet of Renewal (active): Removes all conditions from yourself (not from nearby allies) instead of transferring them to your pet. 60s cd.
   3. Signet of the Hunt (PvP active): Damage bonus changed to +30%.

If anyone is wondering about those percentages, this is what I was aiming for .

Primal Echoes (PvE) + Signet of the Hunt (PvE) = 25% damage bonus to allies.
Primal Echoes (PvP) + Signet of the Hunt (PvP) = 10% damage bonus to allies.

No idea how these changes would affect the current balance, though.

I like this except SoTH. The active damage is worthless unless you’re going for a cheesy double signet maul build. While it’s amusing, it should never be encouraged.

SoTH should give stealth camo when you stand motionless on something natural, and not man made. It’s good risk vs reward. Once you stealth, you can’t run away with speed and it fits the theme of the utility/class.

Dardamaniac.1295:

Give to Rangers weapons access to immob.

We need to counter so many gap closers that is hard to stay ranged in spvp

Predator’s Instinct should proc on crit with ICD for this very reason.

Specific Game Mode
PvX (All game modes)

Proposal Overview
Make the pet grow as it gets stronger.

Goal of Proposal
Adding a little more “cool” factor to the pets, and a slight amount of customization.

Proposal Functionality
Have pets grow slightly as more points are invested in the Beastmastery line. We get them as Juveniles, and one would think that they’re being well trained and cared for. It only makes sense that they’d grow larger than the ones in the wild. And the ones that are taken the best care of would be the ones that grow the largest.

Associated Risks
Unless the pets somehow get TOO large (and I doubt that will be an issue), I see no real risks here. This is a minor cosmetic change to show the pets’ toughness, much as a vet wolf is larger than a normal one.

Short little video of why Precision isn’t bad for Trap Builds

Terravos.4059:

Jocksy.3415:

Terravos.4059:

…….

Why am I continuing to read about Rangers wanting Traps moved out of the Skirmishing Line?

Precision is not a bad stat for Traps, Crit Damage is..But then again, I’m not basing my spec off what Stats the line actually gets, I’m basing it off the traits…

Every time I see a Ranger say something like “Traps don’t belong in Skirmishing, they should be in Wilderness Survival” I facepalm because it shows what a complete lack of understanding a lot of Rangers have about the class.

If you move the Trap traits to Wilderness, You’re just going to nerf yourself, Because its a line you’re going to pick up anyway if you’re a Trap Ranger..Because it has all your bloody defensive traits… The only thing moving those traits will do, Is make it so you lose all your defensive traits picking up Trap Traits..

There is also nothing in the other lines that you could remotely pickup that would be as good as those defensive traits that you’d be losing..NOTHING…There is nothing in Marksman, nothing in Natures, Nothing in Beast…NOTHING….

So please for the love of god, quit making silly suggestions like that..

Traps in skirmishing should have a better direct damage option.
And most of the suggestions I saw about those traits was to move them in the condi duration line (though I don’t see traps in marksmanship in a thematic view) or to move the condi duration or condi damage to skirmishing (not saying it all makes sense, just saying there is not just one proposal about those traits).
I would personally like to have them deal more direct damage (and have increased ranged), but I know this would mean lowering their base condi-damage, thus might not be a good thing overall for condi-build. And they would still not be so good in direct damages builds, because of their conditions.

But, if they were in the condi duration branch, one would only need to go get 20% more condi duration to have the traited versions be correct control options in zergs…

Your statement “Precision is not a bad stat for Traps, Crit Damage is.” is interesting, but I really don’t see how precision works with traps? None of these two stats do anaything for traps, as far as I know…

If people’s complaint about Traps is they don’t do enough Direct Damage, Simply Change 2 of them to have more Direct Damage that scales with Power

for Example, Spike Trap, You could Increase its Direct Damage up a lot more so that it scales with Power Better. Frost Trap could be your other High Direct Damage Trap That way you could actually have Power Based Trap Damage Builds

Switching Trap Traits out of Skirmishing isn’t the Solution, Because there is nothing wrong with those Traits, the problem with Skirmishing is the fact it has More Pet Traits then Beastmaster Line does.

4 of the Traits in the line are devoted to Pets…. 4….

You have 3 Traits in that line that work with Power Builds

Honed Axes – Which is a god awful trait in the first place…Its a Crit Damage boost for a Weapon that’s primarily a Condition Weapon, not a Power Based Weapon…If you’re doing Axe Offhand, You’re not going Axe Main hand, you’re probably going to do Sword.

Quickdraw – Which nothing is wrong with this ability, It reduces 8 abilities Cooldowns…Not terrible.

and Moment of Clarity – Again, a pretty good trait.

If you want to fix Skirmishing Line, get rid of those kitten Pet Traits that are clogging it up (Move them to Beastmaster) and put in actual Traits that are fairly decent for Power builds.

The Trap Traits aren’t the problem with the line

Not unless they increase pet control and movement first. Agility training and carnivorous appetite are incredibly useful in WvW/PvE respectively and I wouldn’t give them up unless we got substantially better player traits in exchange.

Terravos.4059:

Honed Axes – Which is a god awful trait in the first place…Its a Crit Damage boost for a Weapon that’s primarily a Condition Weapon, not a Power Based Weapon…If you’re doing Axe Offhand, You’re not going Axe Main hand, you’re probably going to do Sword.

Ehrm, well maybe not? Obviously depending on whether you mean for sPvP because I don’t do that, but for my PvE I run:

axe + warhorn/axe – well, 2 traps (spike & frost/fire), reflex
traits: 10/30/20/10/0
crit-orriented.

The axe is NOT a condition weapon by far, at least in my views, the multiple hits make for more crit.chances, and the bit of frost on there, and sometimes traps is mainly to keep a distance. I do not want a sword because I want to keep my space between my foe and me, due to the crit oriented armor/weapons I am weaker thus I want to stay mobile while my foes are not. For me this build works just fine, and I wouldn’t know how to build for an Axe trapper any other way (aka. the shift would mean I have no way to trap and axe.) Also, I have honed instead of ‘traps are targetted’ on my master trait, do have the grandmaster trap trait. Also offhand training on master survival. No extra ‘stuff to do’ but cast, I will move to where my traps need to be, and the way foes work, that is usually at my feet, so I can move once the foes spring the traps.

And having read that ‘on crit’ argumentation about traps, I may well try that ^^

Agility Training could instantly be made into a usable Power Build Trait by making it just give 25% run speed to Pets and the Ranger. That’d free up Runes and possibly Signets (depending on your builds) for use.

I honesty don’t see why you use Carnivorous training…. Esp in WvW, i could possibly see a use maybe in PvE.. but there are far better traits you could use.

Now if Carnivorous Training Ate conditions off the Ranger, That’d make it useful for Power Builds.

Arghore.8340:

Terravos.4059:

Honed Axes – Which is a god awful trait in the first place…Its a Crit Damage boost for a Weapon that’s primarily a Condition Weapon, not a Power Based Weapon…If you’re doing Axe Offhand, You’re not going Axe Main hand, you’re probably going to do Sword.

Ehrm, well maybe not? Obviously depending on whether you mean for sPvP because I don’t do that, but for my PvE I run:

axe + warhorn/axe – well, 2 traps (spike & frost/fire), reflex
traits: 10/30/20/10/0
crit-orriented.

The axe is NOT a condition weapon by far, at least in my views, the multiple hits make for more crit.chances, and the bit of frost on there, and sometimes traps is mainly to keep a distance. I do not want a sword because I want to keep my space between my foe and me, due to the crit oriented armor/weapons I am weaker thus I want to stay mobile while my foes are not. For me this build works just fine, and I wouldn’t know how to build for an Axe trapper any other way (aka. the shift would mean I have no way to trap and axe.) Also, I have honed instead of ‘traps are targetted’ on my master trait, do have the grandmaster trap trait. Also offhand training on master survival. No extra ‘stuff to do’ but cast, I will move to where my traps need to be, and the way foes work, that is usually at my feet, so I can move once the foes spring the traps.

There is zero reason for you to be using that trait..Zero…

I’m sorry, its a bad trait…. And Axe is not a Power Based Weapon, Its a Condition Based Weapon despite the fact it “bounces”

Terravos.4059:

Agility Training could instantly be made into a usable Power Build Trait by making it just give 25% run speed to Pets and the Ranger. That’d free up Runes and possibly Signets (depending on your builds) for use.

I honesty don’t see why you use Carnivorous training…. Esp in WvW, i could possibly see a use maybe in PvE.. but there are far better traits you could use.

Now if Carnivorous Training Ate conditions off the Ranger, That’d make it useful for Power Builds.

I use carnivorous in pve to help keep the crit dispenser cats alive and it does it’s job fairly well. Agility is almost exclusively a wvw trait for me. Neither is especially amazing, but we don’t have much to play with in the Crit line if we aren’t using traps and they both make a marked improvement on the pets.

Terravos.4059:

There is zero reason for you to be using that trait..Zero…

I’m sorry, its a bad trait…. And Axe is not a Power Based Weapon, Its a Condition Based Weapon despite the fact it “bounces”

Axes only has 1 condition and it is bleed, how can that be a condition based weapon ? The SB is the condition based weapon from my point of view, at least ‘it’ has condition on it’s attacks.

But I were to venture a guess it’s mostly a matter of perspective. If you think it’s a condition based weapon then please keep viewing it that way. I view it valuable for it’s increased crit chances due to multiple hits (thus multiple roles for a crit), on:
#1 – 3 roles, with 2 foes also a bounce back.
#2 – 5 roles, depending on how many hit.
#4 – 2 roles forth and back
#5 – a kitten ton roles.

Now if all those ‘hits’ don’t make the Axe a Crit weapon than I don’t know which weapon would. And with the build I run also nice damage on crit, and good distance…

Arghore.8340:

Terravos.4059:

There is zero reason for you to be using that trait..Zero…

I’m sorry, its a bad trait…. And Axe is not a Power Based Weapon, Its a Condition Based Weapon despite the fact it “bounces”

Axes only has 1 condition and it is bleed, how can that be a condition based weapon ? The SB is the condition based weapon from my point of view, at least ‘it’ has condition on it’s attacks.

But I were to venture a guess it’s mostly a matter of perspective. If you think it’s a condition based weapon then please keep viewing it that way. I view it valuable for it’s increased crit chances due to multiple hits (thus multiple roles for a crit), on:
#1 – 3 roles, with 2 foes also a bounce back.
#2 – 5 roles, depending on how many hit.
#4 – 2 roles forth and back
#5 – a kitten ton roles.

Now if all those ‘hits’ don’t make the Axe a Crit weapon than I don’t know which weapon would. And with the build I run also nice damage on crit, and good distance…

Axe has 3 Conditions

Bleed/Weakness/Chill, and I know what you’re going to say “But Weakness and Chill doesn’t do damage” and they don’t..But Condition Damage isn’t what makes Condition builds power..Condition Coverage is.

For example..Given the choice between 5 Stacks of Bleed/1 Stack of Weakness and 1 Stack of Chill, vs 15 Stacks of Bleed and nothing else..I’d choose the first one every single time..Because its far far more powerful.

Shortbow is about the same as Main hand Axe in terms of Condition Power, you get 3 conditions, Bleed/Cripple/Poison.

You’re not going to use Shortbow usually on a Trap Build though, Its usually going to be Axe/Horn and Sword/Torch (or in some cases, Axe horn/torch and no sword) Though Shortbow can sometimes be ok I suppose..Giving up that Torch Offhand is crappy sometimes.. Though Sword/Dagger is also a decent replacement if you want a more defensive setup.

As for Axe, Its a good Crit Chance based weapon if you’re using Precision for Conditions, Its not a good Crit Damage Weapon though…Because its power damage is just awful.

Axe Offhand is fine for Crit Damage Builds, and I imagine he’s using the Crit Damage trait mainly to increase it and horn offhand, as He doesn’t have much options for power based main hand weapons other then Sword, but that’s not Ranged.

I just view it as a wasted Trait as its a Minor Increase..Probably be better off with Primal Reflexes, or hell..The Pet Traits in general are all probably better picks then Honed Axes.

What Anet probably should do is make Axe Mainhand into an actual Power Based Weapon..and then add Main Hand Dagger to Rangers, but make it Ranged (So Dagger/Dagger would be Throwing Dagger Setup, and would be Condition Based)

That way he wouldn’t be forced to use Axe because he had no other options.

Substance E.4852:

Terravos.4059:

Agility Training could instantly be made into a usable Power Build Trait by making it just give 25% run speed to Pets and the Ranger. That’d free up Runes and possibly Signets (depending on your builds) for use.

I honesty don’t see why you use Carnivorous training…. Esp in WvW, i could possibly see a use maybe in PvE.. but there are far better traits you could use.

Now if Carnivorous Training Ate conditions off the Ranger, That’d make it useful for Power Builds.

I use carnivorous in pve to help keep the crit dispenser cats alive and it does it’s job fairly well. Agility is almost exclusively a wvw trait for me. Neither is especially amazing, but we don’t have much to play with in the Crit line if we aren’t using traps and they both make a marked improvement on the pets.

Yea, I see when you’re probably using them, I guessed Cat was probably why you used Carnivorous and you don’t have any better options really.

Agility is one of those fillers as well..If i’m using a Power Based Build, and I don’t have Signet of the Hunt, I generally use it.

@Terravos, yeah I know the Axe isn’t that powerful in it’s base damage, but for a med.distance player, which I found myself to be. And not being enormously thrilled with the SB, the Axe was the way to go. Then the choice was conditions, full power or crit. And viewing the axe with its low straight damage, and from my perspective not many damage doing conditions (without traits in opening strike and sharpen stone to back it up), going for ‘crit damage’ instead felt like the best option. In which case I found the honed axes line up better, especially since the ‘targeted traps’ don’t add much and they also require an extra action. And the way I play, which is mainly kite and in/out to place traps, or well/warhorn for support. What other master trait is there in the crit line that is better than 10% more crit damage, in a mainly crit build… esp. if you take into consideration that even going for some sort of pet skill, it would almost always need ‘more investment in pets’ to become truly valuable…

My pets btw, are a spider and a hyena. The spider for obvious ‘keep foes in place’. And the Hyena for when I get into over my head, same with my ‘take root’ elite. (more target means less attention on me).

Primal Reflexes would also be a better pick most of the time..but I’m guessing you’re using the trait entirely for its bonus on your offhands, and not the bonus its giving you on Axe itself.

like I said, you’re basically forced into using Axe Main hand cause you don’t have a viable option for your build, and then you’re using that 1 trait because most of the other traits aren’t super great for ya…also Hyena is just really bad…you’re better off with most of the other Dogs.

Spider isn’t bad though..

Honed Axe in general just need a vast improvement

Thing is it can’t be a cooldown reduction (for offhands or main hand, because Offhand is already covered, and it doesn’t have long cooldowns to warrant a Main hand cooldown reduction)

You could have it apply Might on Critical hits, That’d make it somewhat useful for both Power and Condition Based Builds.

Cufufalating.8479:

Jocksy.3415:

Your statement “Precision is not a bad stat for Traps, Crit Damage is.” is interesting, but I really don’t see how precision works with traps? None of these two stats do anaything for traps, as far as I know…

Traps can crit, which in turns means they can proc On-Crit effects, and since the Bleed On Crit trait is very handily in the same traitline as the trap traits, along with the Precision stat, it becones of the very few ranger trait setups which actually synergise together well, because suddenly with 1-2 traps pulsing, you attacking (probably with Sigil of Earth and often times a SB) you can lay down 10+ bleeds pretty much out of nowhere on rediclously low CD, not to mention the potential AoE element of the on-crit bleeds.

I’ve used pretty much every trap build I can concieve with dire, carrion, rabid, celestial, even apothecary for a bit, and for me nothing comes close to a rabid or celestial setup, because those on-crits are where its at.

Quoting for Truth. Rabid gear is extremely potent on trap builds, and our ability to stack bleeds is definitely awesome, but, at the same time, its not very unique.

Trapper’s aren’t bad..that’s the thing, They’re one of the few Builds we have that don’t need much help..And Skirmishing itself is fine with those traits there.

Skirmishing does need better Power Based Build traits though, Putting some of the Traits together (Like maybe combining the Trap Traits together and making it so people only have to go up to the Master Part of the tree together might make people happy. As they’d have an extra 10 points to work with. You could then do 20/20/30 or 10/20/30/10/0 or 0/20/30/20 Builds for Trappers.

Moving the Piercing Arrow Trait over to Skirmishing’s Bow Trait might be decent also, Because it makes that Trait in general better pick for Power Builds that use bow, and it free’s up a Trait in Marksman for Power builds.

The Rez Traits in general could go away, There is no reason to have most of them in the game as most people won’t use them. They’d be fine as Minor Traits, but actual Traits you choose is just silly.

In fact there is a lot of “filler” traits like that in general in this game that would be better as option Minor Traits you could pick in builds.

WVW: (and other) Move all pet-based utility skills (guard, sick-em, search and rescue, etc) to the pet function bar.

Terravos.4059:

like I said, you’re basically forced into using Axe Main hand cause you don’t have a viable option for your build, and then you’re using that 1 trait because most of the other traits aren’t super great for ya…also Hyena is just really bad…you’re better off with most of the other Dogs.

Which leads me into this Proposal::::

MAKING HYENAS MORE USEFUL (PvE and WvW)
- Hyenas are useless in the current game with very few exceptions.

• They deal half the damage of other Canines, Which is understandable due to its F2, but…
• You can’t pre-summon the F2, because the summoned ally disappears if there is no target.
• It disappears anyways after killing all nearby targets.
• The extra control from having two dogs out at a time might seem like a good idea, but, the Wolf’s F2 skill is a control skill, plus its damage isn’t penalized, making the Hyena a pointless and worthless pet to ever bother taking.

Changes and Benefits

• Hyenas have 66%-75%(1289) of Canine power instead of 50%(859). This way there is a small bonus to using the pet’s F2, not leave us with a penalty just for taking the pet until we use its F2 to bring it in-line with our other pets.
  - Summoned Hyenas shouldn’t disappear if there is no valid Target. Instead, they should be like our regular pets, or like Summoned Minions from other professions.
  - They should follow us around, and attack only our targets until it dies, or its 40 second duration ends. This way we can preemptively use the skill with no penalty instead of in combat.

• An Alternative idea is for Howl of the Pack to summon 2 Hyenas instead of 1, but one of them has their Control skills put on automatic cooldown so it can’t be spammed. This way, again, there is an actual purpose to using the pet’s F2 other than bringing it in line with what our other pets can already do.

Downsides?

• Sure, maybe the enemy might actually feel pressured when we use this skill now instead of just ignoring the extra animal gnawing at their side.

Discussion

• Yes, if you noticed, I have been using a different format than what the Devs suggested we use. I just find it way too cumbersome to have 5 seperate sections of this post, when there can be only 3 (4 with this section)
• All relevant information is still there.
• I did this, so that way, if an Anet Dev does respond to one of my posts, its because the post was actually read instead of looking for specific keywords, and hopefully this thread isn’t just a Corporate Focused Rapid Fire Meeting no more useful than our Rapid Fire is now.

31 pages here, but what’s the direction of this thread?

A lot of cool ideas, but without a better line a this point, there is a lot of confusion.

As much as I agree that rangers need better group support tools, I don’t think I’d be willing to sacrifice their only true burst capability in order to achieve it. Losing the damage boosts on hunt and wild is very unappealing.

Khalic.3561:

As much as I agree that rangers need better group support tools, I don’t think I’d be willing to sacrifice their only true burst capability in order to achieve it. Losing the damage boosts on hunt and wild is very unappealing.

Heres a Signet idea from earlier in the thread that I posted. I tried to keep the burst potential there, while also adding group support capability, and expanding on our options for survival and condition removal. It quickly got buried in other posts, so it was never discussed after that post. Maybe you have an opinion on it?

Link:::
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Collaborative-Development-Ranger-Profession/3699949

Ranger balance proposal

1. Remove traps from utility
2. Give ranger a staff with traps as its weapon skill [Very much like Necromancer’s mark]
3. f1~f4 will summon different pets. They will also provide stat bonus.
– Tank pets that halves the damage from the ranger and the allies. Vitality bonus.
– Dealer pets that deals heavy damages to the enemy. Power bonus.
– Support pets that provides different boon to allies. Tough bonus.
– Support pets that gives different conditions to enemies. Precision bonus.
= Different pets can be assign to different areas such as bears and drakes on tank, moa and dogs on support boons etc.
4. Current shouts will be re-designed to work like guardian and warriors. There are a lot of good shout ideas so I will just move along.
5. Give rangers new utilities: Natue’s magic [All the names are just picked at random]
– Function similar to Guardian concentration and necromancer’s well
– Offensive ground: Grant allies 2 stacks of might and fury for 2 seconds and last 10 seconds.
– Defensive ground: Grant allies protection and stability for 1 seconds and last 10 seconds
– Condition ground: Apply poison for 2 seconds and lasts 5 seconds
– Condition removal ground: Convert conditions into random boon. Last 10 seconds.
= The idea behind this utility is to give rangers ability to provide support in group fight regardless of size.

This is just my ideas that I jumbles around with.

It does seem all control was lost of this CDI a long time ago—no one is even following proposal format anymore.

Is it possible to lock this, restart it, and only accept 100 or so properly formatted proposals? After that, lock that topic and start a topic of discussion only. As rightn ow this thread is super long and way out of hand.

That or a dev posts the top 10 ideas from this thread that they like. Something to tell us that this is not just another ranger sub-forum topic.

Terravos.4059:

Arghore.8340:

Terravos.4059:

Honed Axes – Which is a god awful trait in the first place…Its a Crit Damage boost for a Weapon that’s primarily a Condition Weapon, not a Power Based Weapon…If you’re doing Axe Offhand, You’re not going Axe Main hand, you’re probably going to do Sword.

Ehrm, well maybe not? Obviously depending on whether you mean for sPvP because I don’t do that, but for my PvE I run:

axe + warhorn/axe – well, 2 traps (spike & frost/fire), reflex
traits: 10/30/20/10/0
crit-orriented.

The axe is NOT a condition weapon by far, at least in my views, the multiple hits make for more crit.chances, and the bit of frost on there, and sometimes traps is mainly to keep a distance. I do not want a sword because I want to keep my space between my foe and me, due to the crit oriented armor/weapons I am weaker thus I want to stay mobile while my foes are not. For me this build works just fine, and I wouldn’t know how to build for an Axe trapper any other way (aka. the shift would mean I have no way to trap and axe.) Also, I have honed instead of ‘traps are targetted’ on my master trait, do have the grandmaster trap trait. Also offhand training on master survival. No extra ‘stuff to do’ but cast, I will move to where my traps need to be, and the way foes work, that is usually at my feet, so I can move once the foes spring the traps.

There is zero reason for you to be using that trait..Zero…

I’m sorry, its a bad trait…. And Axe is not a Power Based Weapon, Its a Condition Based Weapon despite the fact it “bounces”

you arent correct here. Axe is kind of in the middle, yes you get good conditions with split blade, but you also get pretty good dmg with it. 170×5
the 3rd skill is more of a defense skill, and while condition duration helps it, many condition builds dont focus on condition duration much.
also since its +10, you have to look at your off hand options for direct dmg, which leaves you with axe and warhorn as opposed to dagger and torch, so it works well with half your offhand options

i think the key here is axe is a mainhand benefits from critical chance, you hit many times, and can thus get more criticals. no matter what your power, or condition dmg, crit dmg will be of some benefit to high critical charachters, where as condition dmg would only be useful to some critical % charachters.

I think it would be better just to be when wielding an axe in general though.

Chrispy.5641:

Cufufalating.8479:

Jocksy.3415:

Your statement “Precision is not a bad stat for Traps, Crit Damage is.” is interesting, but I really don’t see how precision works with traps? None of these two stats do anaything for traps, as far as I know…

Traps can crit, which in turns means they can proc On-Crit effects, and since the Bleed On Crit trait is very handily in the same traitline as the trap traits, along with the Precision stat, it becones of the very few ranger trait setups which actually synergise together well, because suddenly with 1-2 traps pulsing, you attacking (probably with Sigil of Earth and often times a SB) you can lay down 10+ bleeds pretty much out of nowhere on rediclously low CD, not to mention the potential AoE element of the on-crit bleeds.

I’ve used pretty much every trap build I can concieve with dire, carrion, rabid, celestial, even apothecary for a bit, and for me nothing comes close to a rabid or celestial setup, because those on-crits are where its at.

Quoting for Truth. Rabid gear is extremely potent on trap builds, and our ability to stack bleeds is definitely awesome, but, at the same time, its not very unique.

I see these comments quite often that the Ranger isn’t ‘unique’ enough.
Exactly what is it that you are looking for that would make the Ranger unique in it’s own way and stand out from other professions?

ie, Like how the Mesmer has a lot of Reflection, Blinking and some Stealth relative to other professions.

I think that if the Ranger had more access to Quickness and longer durations, and maybe more evasion skills on their ranged weapons so they get the feeling of being quick and agile. They’re partly there already, and it is a branch of Sustained damage.

Maybe rework Poison to stack and be more effective, making Rangers the master of Poisons.

Idk if that would do it, but it would be a step in the right direction.

@phys, I too think it’s better to be wielding an Axe in general

Gotejjeken.1267:

It does seem all control was lost of this CDI a long time ago—no one is even following proposal format anymore.

Is it possible to lock this, restart it, and only accept 100 or so properly formatted proposals? After that, lock that topic and start a topic of discussion only. As rightn ow this thread is super long and way out of hand.

That or a dev posts the top 10 ideas from this thread that they like. Something to tell us that this is not just another ranger sub-forum topic.

The last dev post was about signets so we had some more suggestions on those, not to bad ones either (leaving my own in the middle for somebody else to judge). Then some of us got sidetracked on axe use, which in the end lead to a new suggestion about the Hyena. So I dunno if we are spiralling out of control.

Also, the thread can’t just all be suggestions, else it’s just a rehash of the all suggestions of the ranger ever made (which is sort of is already). Tbh. I would hope we could stay focussed on a certain topic in a discussion format as well, sometimes mere discussion sparks new ideas, and if there is nothing to say about the topic anymore, then perhaps we should move to the next. Like we are now on signet; we had traps and some added damage to them (as well as some becoming combo fields) as well as some discussion about moving them to another line (which I think sparked the side axe discussion) and came to it maybe not being such a good idea…

Personally it be nice to perhaps stay on signets for a bit longer, and if most been said, then I really wonder what people think of spirits… And, or, I suggested a bunch of pages back to cut all skill catagories back to just 3 skills, and adding in another category, I seen various ‘area control’ suggestions as well, so that could be a new ‘nature magic’ category, to be mixed in with spirits. These ‘area control’ and spirits would have to do something with vitality and boons I think, and if spirits are the ‘buf’/support part of the nature magic line, then ‘area control’ could be the ‘CC’ part of nature magic.

But yeah, signets? any more thoughts?

Gotejjeken.1267:

It does seem all control was lost of this CDI a long time ago—no one is even following proposal format anymore.

Is it possible to lock this, restart it, and only accept 100 or so properly formatted proposals? After that, lock that topic and start a topic of discussion only. As rightn ow this thread is super long and way out of hand.

That or a dev posts the top 10 ideas from this thread that they like. Something to tell us that this is not just another ranger sub-forum topic.

I sort of looked at it, if proposing a concept use the format.

When I discuss someone else’s concept or respond to a dev I make sure to quote them and then discuss. Now in that discussion I may include ideas.

My general assumption is unlike us they have a capacity to extract data using an algorithim and could hopefully then create clean tree’s of the ideas and discussion without intervening clutter.

Bunch clutter comment by word sequence. A basic spider.

Now it is difficult to read but I find the “find” function on your browser a quick way to scan a page for issues of interest to you.

Longbow, traps, signet and if tracking a proposal to look for a multi word text string from that proposal etc….

There are also a few names I’ve set asside where I like their ideas and look for them to see if they added anything new.

Finally I don’t always comment but I do upvote figuring they can rank that way real well.

The last dev post concerns me… looks like they’re going for the Band-Aid approach.

Chrispy.5641:

Heres a Signet idea from earlier in the thread that I posted. I tried to keep the burst potential there, while also adding group support capability, and expanding on our options for survival and condition removal. It quickly got buried in other posts, so it was never discussed after that post. Maybe you have an opinion on it?

Link:::
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Collaborative-Development-Ranger-Profession/3699949

I would rather go this direction than the dull approach of simply providing boons for support as some others have suggested. I have to say that this proposal makes me think of a power based version of venom share (which is also pretty undesirable in organized WvW by most groups). However, the effects seem overall fairly weak and directed towards a more sustained approach. Which I suppose is in line with ANet’s vision for the ranger, though I can’t say I agree with it. I don’t think the effects need to be reduced so drastically on account of you being able to share them, take aura share for example.

Chrispy.5641:

Stone Skin – You take 100% less damage when struck. (Stacks 5 times when using Signet of Stone. Also Stacks 5 times when traited with Instinctual Bond, making for 10 stacks total on you or your pet)

This in particular would be an incredible nerf. We’d go from having one of the longest invuln skills to one of the shortest. Any skill that blocks only a set number of attacks becomes useless very quickly in any team fight, and even against quite a few solo builds.

I think Signets are in a much better state than Shouts.

The actives/passives mostly suit the sustain/skirmish/survival models really well. And choosing between the passive/active during battle is interesting, but only when the player is involved because that’s when the stakes/rewards feel meaningful. So for the most part I think giving Signets a default on the player is a good move from a fun-factor perspective, even if it means something like Stone can’t be six seconds anymore.

The exception is Signet of the Hunt.

• It doesn’t work to advance ranger’s role as a sustain-based damage dealer because attack of opportunity is single hit.
• It doesn’t fill the niche power ranger’s are looking for in a power based utility and corrals you towards a single skill on a weapon that isn’t even focused towards dps (Maul).
• The passive is so useful out of combat and the active so useful in combat I’m never conflicted about pressing that button, so the whole thing ends up feeling obvious instead of interesting.

In some respects you can’t tackle Hunt without tackling Attack of Opportunity. And you can’t tackle Attack of Opportunity, without delving into ‘What’s Wrong With Power Building Part2’.

Specific Game Mode
PvP; larger implications

Proposal Overview
Removing the ‘one-hit multiplier’ nature of ranger power building by altering Marksmanship and Skirmishing minor traits

Goal of Proposal
The limited time-frame window of Opening Strike plus the one-hit nature of Attack of Opportunity and Precise Strike basically pushes a sustain damage dealer in the wrong direction towards awkward burst with Maul, instead of really offering the ‘overwhelm’ style kill sustain damage is good for.

Ranger’s attrition play should have greater rewards for combat taking longer so there’s something to shift the power dynamic in your favor to eventually overwhelm the cyclical nature of healing in your foe. Necromancer seems well suited to the more undermining condition spam/boon removal variant of this philosophy, so Ranger needs another way to ‘gain momentum’. I think this should probably be more positively physically based. Sort of like Risen Abomination’s frenzy, or like short-term stacking from LoL.

Proposal Functionality

• Example of Altering Marksmanship to suit overwhelming
  • Adept Minor; Tail Wind
  • Master Minor; While in combat the longer your swiftness duration, the faster your auto-attack becomes. The duration of swiftness applied before entering combat does not receive this effect. This effect ends when combat ends.
  • Grandmaster Minor; When you lose Swiftness, your pet inflicts Immobilize in a 240 PBAOE around it. This in-combat effect can only hit one target, and the closest target to the pet is prioritized.

• Example of Altering Skirmishing to suit overwhelming
  • Adept Minor; While in combat gain a stack of +x ferocity for every hit up to 30 stacks (1 sec cooldown). All stacks are lost when combat ends.
  • Master Minor; Gain Precise Strike when you evade an attack. Precise Strike: The next damaging Skill is guaranteed to critical.
  • Grand Master Minor; When you gain Precise Strike, your pet inflicts Weakness in a 240 PBAOE around it. This in-combat effect can only hit one target, and the closest target to the pet is prioritized.

And then you’d just go through replacing Attack of Opportunity with Precise Strike, and adjusting swiftness where necessary/fun. (Like adding a Swiftness for the Master on Hunter’s Shot).

Hopefully increasing ferocity and attack speed would create this feeling of ‘gaining momentum’. The Pet being the one who inflicts conditions should reward keeping track of your pet positionally, define its role as your assistant, and keep the runspeed problem from hindering. Precise Strike working with the next Skill as opposed to the next Hit allows this building to revolve around things other than Maul. (like say, each and every arrow in rapid fire).

Associated Risks

• So much rebalancing. Like anything I suggest.
• Precise Strike activating on Skill opens up options, but it also means you can miss. It could be a skillfloor raiser, but increased availability may counteract that.
• Gets rid of multiplying the pet’s attack through Attack of Opportunity. Which, I’ll be honest here, is it’s own kind of mess. But might be one people are fond of.

So in light of that, I’d make Signet of the Hunt something more like;
Passive +X Ferocity, Active Swiftness. Or some other expression of how you’d handle a non-one-hit power building philosophy centered around ‘gaining momentum’.

Yoh.8469:

I see these comments quite often that the Ranger isn’t ‘unique’ enough.
Exactly what is it that you are looking for that would make the Ranger unique in it’s own way and stand out from other professions?

ie, Like how the Mesmer has a lot of Reflection, Blinking and some Stealth relative to other professions.

I think that if the Ranger had more access to Quickness and longer durations, and maybe more evasion skills on their ranged weapons so they get the feeling of being quick and agile. They’re partly there already, and it is a branch of Sustained damage.

Maybe rework Poison to stack and be more effective, making Rangers the master of Poisons.

Idk if that would do it, but it would be a step in the right direction.

Well to me that would be somewhat weird, mainly because the Thief has 5 (I think) poisons one of which is even an elite (for memory; dang it’s been long since I played on my thief :P ) …

I think why most people think the ranger is ‘bland’ is because it does everything a lil bit. And there is no real defining feature on them. Sure it may be the ‘pet class’, but if you were to view ‘minions’ as some sort of ‘pet’ then all of a sudden that isn’t very defining.

I also think that when ArenaNet mentioned that Ranger wouldn’t have riffles, pistols because the ranger was a ‘nature magic’ inspired profession. People were expecting more nature magic… And I have read various suggestions here (even my own) which suggest giving the ranger some sort of ‘area control’ through nature magic entuned skills.

Another thing that may be the case, is that if you compare classes, the ranger doesn’t have much ‘razzle dazzle’ going on. And with that I mean visual display of power… like the Mesmer or Engineer, or Elementalist, all very visual distinct and diverse professions, even though the Thief doesn’t have much razzle dazzle, the large amount of stealth still gives it visual defining qualities (even though if they display them, you can’t see them ‘lol’). For the ranger, there is, well spirits, which are all the same things but some color hue difference. A lot of design went in the pets, but you only get to see one at the time. And while there is some decent amount on the weapons, with ‘aura like green skills’, I hardly ever see rangers use Long Sword, or Sword for that matter, neither knife. At least in PvE I don’t… so if those aren’t used, and the most utilities are signets, traps or shouts. Then yes, the visual distinction isn’t very high either… Or rather, it is there, but it tends to be on non used aspects of the Ranger…

And lastly, if you check the GW1 ranger, then you sort of have to conclude that the ranger mostly ‘lost’ defining qualities (preparations and interrupts), and got very little in return, or dare I say ‘new’. Sure it got a bunch of new weapons, but other than that the ranger got what it had and lost some things (possibly some of the more used things of the ranger class in GW1 – interrupt & preps). Perhaps that too is making the ranger in GW2 feeling a bit bland.

These are btw. all things that sometimes pop-up in my own feelings towards the ranger, and I do not pretend to know why others feel or think the way they do. These though were my things … and yet, silly enough, I still like my ranger and my build. I personally had hoped for a staff with some druid/beastmastery skills on them. I suggested some name changes to certain skills to convey a more nature’y feel to them, and I had hopes for these ‘area control’ skills under nature magic or in the form of spirits (as they worked on the GW1 ranger, but then visually more appealing). (while already old suggestions: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedback:User/Arghore/GW2_Ranger
and some in hindsight somewhat silly (boogy men * cough * and some others too btw :P … sometimes it is best not to go with ALL your initial ideas ;D ), you can likely see what I mean with the things I mention here.

phys.7689:

Terravos.4059:

Arghore.8340:

Terravos.4059:

Honed Axes – Which is a god awful trait in the first place…Its a Crit Damage boost for a Weapon that’s primarily a Condition Weapon, not a Power Based Weapon…If you’re doing Axe Offhand, You’re not going Axe Main hand, you’re probably going to do Sword.

Ehrm, well maybe not? Obviously depending on whether you mean for sPvP because I don’t do that, but for my PvE I run:

axe + warhorn/axe – well, 2 traps (spike & frost/fire), reflex
traits: 10/30/20/10/0
crit-orriented.

The axe is NOT a condition weapon by far, at least in my views, the multiple hits make for more crit.chances, and the bit of frost on there, and sometimes traps is mainly to keep a distance. I do not want a sword because I want to keep my space between my foe and me, due to the crit oriented armor/weapons I am weaker thus I want to stay mobile while my foes are not. For me this build works just fine, and I wouldn’t know how to build for an Axe trapper any other way (aka. the shift would mean I have no way to trap and axe.) Also, I have honed instead of ‘traps are targetted’ on my master trait, do have the grandmaster trap trait. Also offhand training on master survival. No extra ‘stuff to do’ but cast, I will move to where my traps need to be, and the way foes work, that is usually at my feet, so I can move once the foes spring the traps.

There is zero reason for you to be using that trait..Zero…

I’m sorry, its a bad trait…. And Axe is not a Power Based Weapon, Its a Condition Based Weapon despite the fact it “bounces”

you arent correct here. Axe is kind of in the middle, yes you get good conditions with split blade, but you also get pretty good dmg with it. 170×5
the 3rd skill is more of a defense skill, and while condition duration helps it, many condition builds dont focus on condition duration much.
also since its +10, you have to look at your off hand options for direct dmg, which leaves you with axe and warhorn as opposed to dagger and torch, so it works well with half your offhand options

i think the key here is axe is a mainhand benefits from critical chance, you hit many times, and can thus get more criticals. no matter what your power, or condition dmg, crit dmg will be of some benefit to high critical charachters, where as condition dmg would only be useful to some critical % charachters.

I think it would be better just to be when wielding an axe in general though.

That’s not how Splitblade Works

Its not 170×5, Its 170 Damage from 5 separate hits.

Splitblade for example right now days its does 505 damage, Ricochet does 504 damage. What that means is simple, Splitblade does 1 more damage then Ricochet does..

If Splitblade worked like you suggested, then each crit of the ability would do 1500 damage instead of 300 damage it does right now.

Winter’s Bite, Split Blade, and Ricochet all do the same exact damage outside the bounce on Rico and the Bleed on Splitblade.

Yoh.8469:

I see these comments quite often that the Ranger isn’t ‘unique’ enough.
Exactly what is it that you are looking for that would make the Ranger unique in it’s own way and stand out from other professions?

ie, Like how the Mesmer has a lot of Reflection, Blinking and some Stealth relative to other professions.

I think that if the Ranger had more access to Quickness and longer durations, and maybe more evasion skills on their ranged weapons so they get the feeling of being quick and agile. They’re partly there already, and it is a branch of Sustained damage.

Maybe rework Poison to stack and be more effective, making Rangers the master of Poisons.

Idk if that would do it, but it would be a step in the right direction.

Any class can stack bleeds relatively easy. All Classes except for Guardian have a trait that bleeds on critical hits. The only difference is in what the percentage chances are and how long the bleeding gets stacked as a result of the critical hit.

(also, @everyone, We have two traits for bleeds on critical hits btw, 1 for us, and 1 for pets, and if you have a buffed Lynx out there, its can deal some pretty substantial condition damage only through bleeds, and then there’s all the physical damage it deals too,…but it will never be as strong as your own bleed stacking is, and is totally useless against moving players, the biggest weakness of something with 4 legs in this game!)

The Poison thing has been mentioned before, and it would be interesting to see if it either stacks (420 damage per second using a point blank Poison Volley on someone with 0 condition damage), It reduces Healing further, or if it just does more damage, not too different from what the Necromancer’s ‘Terror’ trait does to fear.

We also have lots of access to Vulnerability, Chill, Cripple, etc (as does most other classes). If we could have a trait that makes them more potent…..

Khalic.3561:

Chrispy.5641:

Link:::
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Collaborative-Development-Ranger-Profession/3699949

I would rather go this direction than the dull approach of simply providing boons for support as some others have suggested. I have to say that this proposal makes me think of a power based version of venom share (which is also pretty undesirable in organized WvW by most groups). However, the effects seem overall fairly weak and directed towards a more sustained approach. Which I suppose is in line with ANet’s vision for the ranger, though I can’t say I agree with it. I don’t think the effects need to be reduced so drastically on account of you being able to share them, take aura share for example.

Stone Skin – You take 100% less damage when struck. (Stacks 5 times when using Signet of Stone. Also Stacks 5 times when traited with Instinctual Bond, making for 10 stacks total on you or your pet)

This in particular would be an incredible nerf. We’d go from having one of the longest invuln skills to one of the shortest. Any skill that blocks only a set number of attacks becomes useless very quickly in any team fight, and even against quite a few solo builds.

Well, Geeze. Glad someone finally pointed that out! of all the effects, I was pretty sure that that one was the weakest I thought of.

On the other ones. the Changes….

I made to Attack of Opportunity does make it weaker, unless you know how to stack Vulnerability, in which case, it can be quite a bit more powerful than the original after you count the fact that you get 5 stacks of it, instead of just one chance.

Wild Strikes is a little weaker, and that is a result of letting the Ranger share the Signet from the start (but Stability didn’t change).

Renewal is also weaker, because you can only remove 5 conditions instead of transfer all conditions. My justification for that one is a little more complex, because you have to factor in no longer having to sacrifice your pet to transfer all conditions, and a few other things.

But, no matter which Signet suggestion Anet goes with (and hopefully they go with one of them! or if they go with all of them at once and combine them into some sort of super idea), they’re going to have to play with the numbers regardless. I am pretty sure I have an understanding of how the Ranger Profession works, but I’m not an expert or the expert on the class.

Arghore.8340:

I think why most people think the ranger is ‘bland’ is because it does everything a lil bit. And there is no real defining feature on them. Sure it may be the ‘pet class’, but if you were to view ‘minions’ as some sort of ‘pet’ then all of a sudden that isn’t very defining.

I also think that when ArenaNet mentioned that Ranger wouldn’t have riffles, pistols because the ranger was a ‘nature magic’ inspired profession. People were expecting more nature magic… And I have read various suggestions here (even my own) which suggest giving the ranger some sort of ‘area control’ through nature magic entuned skills.

Another thing that may be the case, is that if you compare classes, the ranger doesn’t have much ‘razzle dazzle’ going on.

So, more flowers and unicorns then?

Ascetically I do get what you mean, they don’t look all that impressive comparatively.
If they had more in the way of actual Nature Magic, then there is a lot that could be done with them. For example taking a page from Wakfu’s Sadida class, where it’s ascetic is in three parts besides it’s main mechanic, which are seeds that when cast on become summoned plant minions.

• Water – Aqua blue jets of water and bubbles.
• Air – Purple poison mist and wind.
• Earth – Lots of green bramble vines and small earthquakes.

So say they change the no.4 on the Greatsword to an AOE, visually something like the Ranger hitting the ground and causing a small green earthquake would fit in visually.

Or have Crippling Shot on the Shortbow cause a small bramble appear around the legs of your target for a short duration.
Point Blank Shot shoots a bolt of water that knocks back your target, and say has a small heal for allies around it.
Maybe change the poisons visuals to purple instead of green to separate it from other professions. (esp if it were to be changed so that the Ranger actually had more potent poisons)

But you get what I mean, something a little more along the lines of this where you uses plants, water and poisons against your foe in more of a visual way. I could see that working, provided Anet have the resources to go back and give them a visual bump.
Kinda doubt they do.

-

Mechanically thou, I actually really like the quick evasive abilities they have, esp the Sword, Dagger and Greatsword. I feel like a ninja. I just kinda wish the same spirit was carried over to the Shortbow and Longbow, because they just go pew pew and have no ompf.

And their’s not much point to them when gap closers are a dime a dozen, and their distance makers are pretty pathetic really.

Specific Game Mode
All modes

Proposal Overview
Rework of bow skills

Goal of Proposal
Weapon specialization.

Proposal Functionality
As it is now, longbow seems to be designed more like a “sniper rifle” weapon type in mind, while shortbow reminds a SMG.
Please consider going further this way (as this makes a lot of sense). Make longbow a hard hitting, long range and single target weapon, while shortbow should me a close quarters defensive multiple target weapon.

Associated Risks
<What risks or problems can you foresee with this proposal which you would like to have assistance on from other members of the CDI>