Guild Wars 2

I’m an ele. 2500 armour.

How can I get hit for 6k each time by a spammable attack.

My churning earth has a 3 1/2 sec cast time and does that damage to soft targets.

It involved absolutely no skill, no sort of setup and it has a gap closer attached. If youre fighting someone else (i was), thief jumps in, presses 2 twice and that much damage?

Attacks which involve no setup, no cooldown and no cast time shoudn’t hit for that much.

6k is nothing. with 2.5 k armor i used to get hit for like 11k backstabs and 8k heartseekers in wvw. but yeah still such spammable attacks shouldnt deal such a high dmg i agree.

@Mek, OH RIGHT because eles have perma immobilize! Let me just immobilize this thief right here that will then teleport and keep attacking the ele.
@OP, the situation is that in the current meta (in pvp and wvw) thief is pretty much the anti-ele. They steal our boons, they cc us (hard and soft cc, dazes and cripples and immobs) and because they have such high damage and we’re so squishy, they usually dont have any trouble killing us.

Hopefully with the balance patch we will see some improvement to ele so we can deal with thieves with a bit more efficiency. (Add a “revealed” effect on certain ele skills? Maybe a trait that gives you aegis if you’re hit for 10%+ of your hp?)

Yep its sad story for thief vs ele. even on streams pretty decent/ very good eles avoid thiefs as plague, they melt in literally 3s after using their mist form.
Hs should not have gap closer. its spammable, does insane damage and scales with hp, and closes the distance? anet forgot to make hs grant you 4s of steath on top of that.
Without gap closer it would still do same damage, but you would need to actually land them and enemy would have ways to avoid it, not being hit mid air

Somebody has severely underestimated the damage a single churning earth can do….

And what sort of player gets hit with churning earth?

I can probably count on 1 hand the number of times i’ve failed to dodge a churning earth.

And the thief can get off 3 heartseekers as you charge it up.

ens.9854:

Somebody has severely underestimated the damage a single churning earth can do….

Churning earth is very situational to use, and should never be used against a thief who can easily dodge/blind/interrupt you after getting 3s of free dps.

BlackBeard.2873:

ens.9854:

Somebody has severely underestimated the damage a single churning earth can do….

Churning earth is very situational to use, and should never be used against a thief who can easily dodge/blind/interrupt you after getting 3s of free dps.

Heartseeker is very situational to use, and should never be used against anyone who can easily defend themselves in anyway after getting guaranteed shots against a thief who isn’t dodging or blinding.

Seriously, churning earth can easily hit for 15k PER target once you count the bleeds… Just pointing out how absurd the comparison is

Edit: here’s a hint—auto attack chain does more DPS than heartseeker

ens.9854:

BlackBeard.2873:

ens.9854:

Somebody has severely underestimated the damage a single churning earth can do….

Churning earth is very situational to use, and should never be used against a thief who can easily dodge/blind/interrupt you after getting 3s of free dps.

Heartseeker is very situational to use, and should never be used against anyone who can easily defend themselves in anyway after getting guaranteed shots against a thief who isn’t dodging or blinding.

Seriously, churning earth can easily hit for 15k PER target once you count the bleeds… Just pointing out how absurd the comparison is

Edit: here’s a hint—auto attack chain does more DPS than heartseeker

You talk about absurd comparisons and you bring up autoattack chain? How is a sequence of 4-5 attacks comparable to 1 spammable nuke with a gap closer attached?

ens.9854:

BlackBeard.2873:

ens.9854:

Somebody has severely underestimated the damage a single churning earth can do….

Churning earth is very situational to use, and should never be used against a thief who can easily dodge/blind/interrupt you after getting 3s of free dps.

Heartseeker is very situational to use, and should never be used against anyone who can easily defend themselves in anyway after getting guaranteed shots against a thief who isn’t dodging or blinding.

Seriously, churning earth can easily hit for 15k PER target once you count the bleeds… Just pointing out how absurd the comparison is

Edit: here’s a hint—auto attack chain does more DPS than heartseeker

1st. no one ever will get hit by churning earth
2nd. Hs is click – auto lands and targets, you dont need to actually manually walk beside target, keep close distance to hit
3rd. look at skill tooltip lol, hs does more damage at any stage
4th. thief spam hs left and right if they think they have killing blow or have a way to disengage after. Imagine you are ele, and thief runs to you, presses 2 2 2 2 2 (less or more) and you die. Such skill involved right?
5th how on earth you can defend again pure damage burst spam? you sure wont outdamage that, only way is to use cc, if you have it and manage to land it. (keep in mind hs spam speed)

6k Dmg is fine for a berserker, who attack another berserker.

As a single target melee skill, this skill have to be a little stronger, than the area attacks from the other classes. E.g. Ele can do 4k dmg/s with Lava Font on up to 5 targets or 5x over 16k with Churning Earth or warriors with 3x over 12k in 3s with HB.

phaeris.7604:

I’m an ele. 2500 armour.

How can I get hit for 6k each time by a spammable attack.

Well, to address the actual question, it’s likely not so much the ability itself, but the situational modifiers the thief was using.

For instance, if you were lower HP already, the attack will already be getting a hefty damage boost.

In addition, rune sets like rune of the eagle or rune of infiltration offer increased damage to low health opponents. Or perhaps they were using scholar runes to get extra damage at full health. Runes of the thief provide a damage bonus if attacking from behind, so if they were chasing you down with heartseeker it would’ve triggered the extra damage (no one really rune those though).

If they were using something like executioner, it would also provide a large damage boost when you were at lower health.

Something as simple as a sigil of force would also give a damage boost, although sigil of air or fire could also have been used instead.

Additionally, thieves commonly have some form of might stacks from being in stealth, so that would also boost their damage output. Then they probably also have very high power, crit damage, and precision (i.e. full zerk), allowing them to crit frequently and powerfully with the attack.

So some combination of that stuff and other stuff is probably why it did that much damage.

Black Teagan.9215:

6k Dmg is fine for a berserker, who attack another berserker.

As a single target melee skill, this skill have to be a little stronger, than the area attacks from the other classes. E.g. Ele can do 4k dmg/s with Lava Font on up to 5 targets or 5x over 16k with Churning Earth or warriors with 3x over 12k in 3s with HB.

how is it fine to be able to spam 6k damage skill which has gap closer in it? no warrior skill hits even close to that on fair grounds. Semi traited eviscerate will do 6-7k on low armor, but it has huge cast time and obvious leap animtaion + you need full adrenaline for that and 7s cd. with 100b you STAND STILL, means you need setup for that (or you are hitting 1/6 of damage max) to land – immobilize (can be cleansed) or stun ( stun breakers). with HS you just spam away. 2 ( enemy dodged that?) 2 ( again dodge?) – 2 2 2 2 dead now.

Introp.8465:

ens.9854:

BlackBeard.2873:

ens.9854:

Somebody has severely underestimated the damage a single churning earth can do….

Churning earth is very situational to use, and should never be used against a thief who can easily dodge/blind/interrupt you after getting 3s of free dps.

Heartseeker is very situational to use, and should never be used against anyone who can easily defend themselves in anyway after getting guaranteed shots against a thief who isn’t dodging or blinding.

Seriously, churning earth can easily hit for 15k PER target once you count the bleeds… Just pointing out how absurd the comparison is

Edit: here’s a hint—auto attack chain does more DPS than heartseeker

1st. no one ever will get hit by churning earth
2nd. Hs is click – auto lands and targets, you dont need to actually manually walk beside target, keep close distance to hit
3rd. look at skill tooltip lol, hs does more damage at any stage
4th. thief spam hs left and right if they think they have killing blow or have a way to disengage after. Imagine you are ele, and thief runs to you, presses 2 2 2 2 2 (less or more) and you die. Such skill involved right?
5th how on earth you can defend again pure damage burst spam? you sure wont outdamage that, only way is to use cc, if you have it and manage to land it. (keep in mind hs spam speed)

1st: highly improbable
2nd: A finisher must have a high chance to hit the target, otherwise were it no finisher.
3rd: The same: finisher skill(!) They were complete useless would they deal the same or less dmg than AAs.
4th: You know, that it gives blocks, dodges, invulnerability, knockbacks, etc.?
I can counterburst the burst thieves, incl. PW Thieves, you not?
5th: Gaurdians, Mesmer and Engis have a much better burstdmg, than thieves and this in a big area.

Introp.8465:

Black Teagan.9215:

6k Dmg is fine for a berserker, who attack another berserker.

As a single target melee skill, this skill have to be a little stronger, than the area attacks from the other classes. E.g. Ele can do 4k dmg/s with Lava Font on up to 5 targets or 5x over 16k with Churning Earth or warriors with 3x over 12k in 3s with HB.

how is it fine to be able to spam 6k damage skill which has gap closer in it? no warrior skill hits even close to that on fair grounds. Semi traited eviscerate will do 6-7k on low armor, but it has huge cast time and obvious leap animtaion + you need full adrenaline for that and 7s cd. with 100b you STAND STILL, means you need setup for that (or you are hitting 1/6 of damage max) to land – immobilize (can be cleansed) or stun ( stun breakers). with HS you just spam away. 2 ( enemy dodged that?) 2 ( again dodge?) – 2 2 2 2 dead now.

The warrior has healing signet.

Heartseeker is outperformed by autoattack chain unless target is very low on health. Losing 1 autoattack to a blind, block, evade is nothing plus you get poison and higher proc rates. Heartseeker is also worse than steal, infil signet, shadow shot, and inf strike as a gap closer.

Go test on the training dummies in the mists; you will run out of initiative and still kill them the same speed or slower with heartseeker vs autoattack, and they can’t even fight back

Black Teagan.9215:

Introp.8465:

ens.9854:

BlackBeard.2873:

ens.9854:

Somebody has severely underestimated the damage a single churning earth can do….

Churning earth is very situational to use, and should never be used against a thief who can easily dodge/blind/interrupt you after getting 3s of free dps.

Heartseeker is very situational to use, and should never be used against anyone who can easily defend themselves in anyway after getting guaranteed shots against a thief who isn’t dodging or blinding.

Seriously, churning earth can easily hit for 15k PER target once you count the bleeds… Just pointing out how absurd the comparison is

Edit: here’s a hint—auto attack chain does more DPS than heartseeker

1st. no one ever will get hit by churning earth
2nd. Hs is click – auto lands and targets, you dont need to actually manually walk beside target, keep close distance to hit
3rd. look at skill tooltip lol, hs does more damage at any stage
4th. thief spam hs left and right if they think they have killing blow or have a way to disengage after. Imagine you are ele, and thief runs to you, presses 2 2 2 2 2 (less or more) and you die. Such skill involved right?
5th how on earth you can defend again pure damage burst spam? you sure wont outdamage that, only way is to use cc, if you have it and manage to land it. (keep in mind hs spam speed)

1st: highly improbable
2nd: A finisher skill must have a high chance to hit the target, otherwise were it no finisher.
3rd: The same: finisher skill
4th: You know, that it gives blocks, dodges, invulnerability, knockbacks, etc.?
I can counterburst the burst thieves, incl. PW Thieves, you not?
5th: Gaurdians, Mesmer and Engis have a much better burstdmg, than thieves and this in a big area.

1st. maybe for you, if you sit into hour long cast giant circle wondering what will happen. skill has 3.25 s cast time lol
2. a finisher you say? which can be spammed 5-6 times? its regular weapon 2 skill not some kind of f1 of the class.
3. some guy wrote it you compare whole chain to 1 skill, which will outdamage it on low health anyways, but you cant compare 3 hits to 1 lol.
4. block blocks 1 hs out of 6, eles use mist form yes, survive 3s and after that die in 3 hs spam hits, very helpful, and thief himself can dodge knockbackss
5. dps guardian has higher BURST, but that burst doesnt come from 2 2 2 2 2 spam, and take a setup. and lol, mesmer and engi burst?

ens.9854:

Introp.8465:

Black Teagan.9215:

6k Dmg is fine for a berserker, who attack another berserker.

As a single target melee skill, this skill have to be a little stronger, than the area attacks from the other classes. E.g. Ele can do 4k dmg/s with Lava Font on up to 5 targets or 5x over 16k with Churning Earth or warriors with 3x over 12k in 3s with HB.

how is it fine to be able to spam 6k damage skill which has gap closer in it? no warrior skill hits even close to that on fair grounds. Semi traited eviscerate will do 6-7k on low armor, but it has huge cast time and obvious leap animtaion + you need full adrenaline for that and 7s cd. with 100b you STAND STILL, means you need setup for that (or you are hitting 1/6 of damage max) to land – immobilize (can be cleansed) or stun ( stun breakers). with HS you just spam away. 2 ( enemy dodged that?) 2 ( again dodge?) – 2 2 2 2 dead now.

The warrior has healing signet.

Heartseeker is outperformed by autoattack chain unless target is very low on health. Losing 1 autoattack to a blind, block, evade is nothing plus you get poison and higher proc rates. Heartseeker is also worse than steal, infil signet, shadow shot, and inf strike as a gap closer.

Go test on the training dummies in the mists; you will run out of initiative and still kill them the same speed or slower with heartseeker vs autoattack, and they can’t even fight back

Healing signet? this is thread about thief and ele. There are countless of threads to cry about healing signet elsewhere. ( btw hs now increases damage? , why would you even bring this up lol). Thief has stealth, same logic right

How can you compare auto chain, which takes 3 times longer and you need to be close to the target and actually hit it? hs auto jumps to target, is 1 skill. And i play thief in spvp occasionally, it really takes no skill to spam hs ( allthough i try fun builds).
Few autos to heavy dummy and 2 2 2 – 4k, 4.5k, 5k. on heavy armor

Oh forgot to mention, on top of that insane damage+ scaling, gap closer its a leap finisher as well…

No spammable move should carry that much damage.

You need to try this elementalist exploit.

Singel target skills do always more dmg, against one person, than the skills, which hit more than one person. While Skills with an AE-Effect are stronger against groups, than single target skills.

I believe you know that.
But do you know, that the dmg is always inversely proportional to the deff, which the class have and the numbers of targets, the weapon can hit?

Calculate Part 1)
Hs deals more dmg, than skills like HB or CE, because its can hit only one person and not 3 or 5, incl. that thieves have not one deffskills or -buffs, in marked contrast to every other class in this game, why this must compensate throught more dmg.

[—Every class have an intern balance between dmg and deff.
The lesser max. targets, the higher the dmg for the targets the weapon can hit.
The lower the deff of the class, the higher is the dmg output of the class.—]

Calculate Part 2)
But, we have no (real) cooldowns and the inisystem allowed us to use the same skill more, than one time every few secs, because of this have every thief weaponskill have a low coefficient, which make the skills weaker, than the attacks from other classes
(, inclusive the other disadvantages of an Inisystem).
E.g. Heartseeker (<25% Life) do the same dmg like eviscerate on adrenalinlvl 1.

As long as we not have the same deffense and (self-)support, like the other classes, I see no reason to nerf our dmg on the same lvl like the other classes, especially if it comes from a single target weapon and skill.

I used to play a thief. The ability to go invisible every 4 seconds and the ability to blind constantly and teleport is a pretty good defence.

A move which requires no setup or cast time shouldn’t hit for that much. Much less be spammable, and have a leap attached.

It allows bad thieves to be extremely dangerous when they add into fight. kitten kitten !! i’ll just spam button 2 as i enter this fight!, oh look! i’ve done 12k damage in 3 hits!

It’s no wonder you see so many thieves in WvW and so few classes like Ele’s roaming away from the blob.

Stop playing so bad and complaining when you have 12904810491825 damage mitigating skills plus teleport plus invuln plus a bunch of evasive/protection features that you obviously have NO idea how to use.

Thief can’t do 6k with HS to an ele unless ele is <25% hp+has vuln+no protect+thief has glass build+might stacked+bloodlust.

You’re just not good at this game.

Stop complaining about thief. If you want to complain about high damage then complain about warrior, who you will NEVER in a million years be able to beat because they can outlast you, outrun you, be immune to all your conditions, be immune to all your damage, and do more dps than you all at once without breaking a sweat.

I repeat, stop complaining about thief. Thief damage has been nerfed infinitely, their survivability and evades have been nerfed, their stunbreaks have been nerfed, everything about thief has been nerfed except a minimal improvement in base init regen. EVERYTHING.

Put simply, thief is the anti-noob and excels only at killing people who don’t know how to play…and running away from people who do.

phaeris.7604:

I used to play a thief. The ability to go invisible every 4 seconds and the ability to blind constantly and teleport is a pretty good defence.

A move which requires no setup or cast time shouldn’t hit for that much. Much less be spammable, and have a leap attached.

It allows bad thieves to be extremely dangerous when they add into fight. kitten kitten !! i’ll just spam button 2 as i enter this fight!, oh look! i’ve done 12k damage in 3 hits!

It’s no wonder you see so many thieves in WvW and so few classes like Ele’s roaming away from the blob.

Oh yes, the stealth!
A curse and bless at the same time.
One of the main reason why thieves get no buffs and count as OP, on the other hand the only thing that hold thieves in this game, otherwise they would die out. :/

Form.8741:

I repeat, stop complaining about thief. Thief damage has been nerfed infinitely, their survivability and evades have been nerfed, their stunbreaks have been nerfed, everything about thief has been nerfed except a minimal improvement in base init regen. EVERYTHING.

Nope, that isn’t correct. You forget the increased duration of the venom from the Dagger AA

Black Teagan.9215:

Singel target skills do always more dmg, against one person, than the skills, which hit more than one person. While Skills with an AE-Effect are stronger against groups, than single target skills.

I believe you know that.
But do you know, that the dmg is always inversely proportional to the deff, which the class have and the numbers of targets, the weapon can hit?

Calculate Part 1)
Hs deals more dmg, than skills like HB or CE, because its can hit only one person and not 3 or 5, incl. that thieves have not one deffskills or -buffs, in marked contrast to every other class in this game, why this must compensate throught more dmg.

[—Every class have an intern balance between dmg and deff.
The lesser max. targets, the higher the dmg for the targets the weapon can hit.
The lower the deff of the class, the higher is the dmg output of the class.—]

Calculate Part 2)
But, we have no (real) cooldowns and the inisystem allowed us to use the same skill more, than one time every few secs, because of this have every thief weaponskill have a low coefficient, which make the skills weaker, than the attacks from other classes
(, inclusive the other disadvantages of an Inisystem).
E.g. Heartseeker (<25% Life) do the same dmg like eviscerate on adrenalinlvl 1.

---

As long as we not have the same deffense and (self-)support, who the other classes, I see no reason to nerf our dmg on the same lvl like the other classes, especially if it comes from a single target weapon and skill.

That was completely irrelevant.
Thief has kittenloads of defensive abilities, yet he can spam 4-6k crits ( depending on armor and hp) hits 5-6 times in a row. Are you saying that being able to absolutely melt target in 3-5s is not too strong? You simply presss button 5 times, dont even need to follow target.

And why are you bringing 3-5 targets into this? no one is even talking about aoe. Lets take mentioned eviscerate into example. it has to be traited, then it has 7s cd. You have to have 30 adrenaline for max damage, SINGLE TARGET, then it dies around 7k on low armor, and if you miss it, goes on 2.5s cd. ( and is a burst class f1 skill), is not any finished, unlike hs. True, warrior could take 3 stances, so as thief can take 2 invis + 1 jump, so defensive capabilities.

Thread is about thief being able to spam 6k crits 5-6 times in a row without any downside to that or any setup needed

Form.8741:

Stop playing so bad and complaining when you have 12904810491825 damage mitigating skills plus teleport plus invuln plus a bunch of evasive/protection features that you obviously have NO idea how to use.

Thief can’t do 6k with HS to an ele unless ele is <25% hp+has vuln+no protect+thief has glass build+might stacked+bloodlust.

You’re just not good at this game.

Stop complaining about thief. If you want to complain about high damage then complain about warrior, who you will NEVER in a million years be able to beat because they can outlast you, outrun you, be immune to all your conditions, be immune to all your damage, and do more dps than you all at once without breaking a sweat.

I repeat, stop complaining about thief. Thief damage has been nerfed infinitely, their survivability and evades have been nerfed, their stunbreaks have been nerfed, everything about thief has been nerfed except a minimal improvement in base init regen. EVERYTHING.

Put simply, thief is the anti-noob and excels only at killing people who don’t know how to play…and running away from people who do.

what are you even talking about. Do you even remember when was the last time you died to ele 1×1? you have 1% of winning as ele, if thief is mentally handicapped.

why do you cry that thieves were nerfed? maybe because there was a reason for that?
And Good ele kills warrior, because no warrior has damage spike so high as thieves with their button 2 spam. With perfect chainstun using stomp as well as bulls you can dish out 15k damage in like 9s, if enemy wont use stun breaker. So yeah, what a burst.
And for the love of god, being immune to phys damage 4s? eles are immune to everything for 3s, and they die after that in 3s to thief, immunity means kitten when its low uptime and you face 6k crit spam after that.

The ones who cries the most about themselves are thieves. on every single thread about anything

Thief gets melted by condispam necros/engis within 2-4 seconds and there is NOTHING they can do about it since thief has really bad condi removal outside lyssa runes.

Downside to a thief with 6k HS (only possible when you are <25% in the first place) is that thief has no protection, has VERY low hp and armor, dies easily, has no stability, has limited condi removal, and is altogether an inferior warrior-like profession only with stealth.

Enough downsides? I think so.
Warrior has higher DPS. Thief can’t do 6k hs without traiting and gearing for crit damage like crazy PLUS having might and bloodlust stacks.

Stop lying. I guarantee you’re just venting because you lost to a thief and you’re not good enough to figure out why.

Form.8741:

Thief gets melted by condispam necros/engis within 2-4 seconds and there is NOTHING they can do about it since thief has really bad condi removal outside lyssa runes.

Downside to a thief with 6k HS (only possible when you are <25% in the first place) is that thief has no protection, has VERY low hp and armor, dies easily, has no stability, has limited condi removal, and is altogether an inferior warrior-like profession only with stealth.

Enough downsides? I think so.
Warrior has higher DPS. Thief can’t do 6k hs without traiting and gearing for crit damage like crazy PLUS having might and bloodlust stacks.

Stop lying. I guarantee you’re just venting because you lost to a thief and you’re not good enough to figure out why.

warrior doesnt have higher dps, any good thief wipes floor with good warriors, wonder how then?

btw thread is about thieves and eles, and not hurr durr warrior op thread, go find proper one if you want to cry about that.

why do you need to cleanse condi, if you can spam 2 2 2 2 2 2 and kill condi enemy in 5-7s? And oh yes, you forgot you class spell steal? you can even steal stability if you trait and can react to boons, of spamming blinds/stealth not enough survivability? being invisible is sure not secure enough

If you want to summary the thiefclass in one sentence: “Kill them immediately or they kill you.”

Lol, really ? ele’s have so many damage mitigation skills…on such short timers.

An ele has to dance across the keyboard combining 4 atunements and spell combos to get what a thief gets in 2 button clicks.

Black Teagan.9215:

If you want to summary the thiefclass in one sentence: “Kill them immediately or they kill you.”

…Or you stealth and disengage more like it.

Churning earth is a massively telegraphed ability and anyone with an IQ above 50 can dodge it.

Black Teagan.9215:

If you want to summary the thiefclass in one sentence: “Kill them immediately or stealth and repeat your button spamming once they have used there defensive cool downs to stop your first batch of burst.”

Fixed it for you. The sort of damage Thief can do is simply broken. What other class has an attack that can do up to 16k damage in ONE hit that has NO punishment if the skill is dodged, blocked or immuned? Which allows them to continue to spam it until it hits and then for them to spam #2 until the target is dead…

Lets not forget that this burst can ONLY be “avoided” if you actually SEE them. You stand NO chance if they see you first and instantly use one of MANY ways to get cheap and easy Stealth. Sure having advantage is fine, that advantage leading to near 1hit kills is NOT fine.

Introp.8465:

Black Teagan.9215:

If you want to summary the thiefclass in one sentence: “Kill them immediately or they kill you.”

…Or you stealth and disengage more like it.

I play complete without stealth, also if it much harder

You can’t kill a condi enemy with hs, they are always 1. tanks, 2. hs is easy to avoid 3. hs does less damage than autoattack (which is not a ton) until enemy gets down to 25%. Plus, hs doesn’t mitigate damage so thief is busy melting the whole time hs animation occurs, and if they don’t cleanse condis they will be dead within 3 seconds from melting (condis or raw damage). Honestly, if you don’t even know how to handle/counter a 450 range skill that burns through initiative really fast and does minimal damage until you’re <25% health, you PROBABLY shouldn’t be playing this game.

There’s simply no arguing with raging crying noobs.

Do you even know what dodge or mist form or your various shields or teleport do? Something tells me you have NO idea how to play ele. Ele holds its own vs thief extremely well. You build a decent ele and you’ll keep thief on the defensive 100% of the time. No thief with d/d wins vs a decent ele, they have to do s/d to fight ele in order to boon strip (which was also nerfed long ago) to do enough damage to actually DOWN an ele.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Black Teagan.9215:

If you want to summary the thiefclass in one sentence: “Kill them immediately or stealth and repeat your button spamming once they have used there defensive cool downs to stop your first batch of burst.”

Fixed it for you. The sort of damage Thief can do is simply broken. What other class has an attack that can do up to 16k damage in ONE hit that has NO punishment if the skill is dodged, blocked or immuned? Which allows them to continue to spam it until it hits and then for them to spam #2 until the target is dead…

Lets not forget that this burst can ONLY be “avoided” if you actually SEE them. You stand NO chance if they see you first and instantly use one of MANY ways to get cheap and easy Stealth. Sure having advantage is fine, that advantage leading to near 1hit kills is NOT fine.

Warrior does several skills actually, including one that works at 1500 range. Incidentally, thief damage has been nerfed to the point where they cannot actually get 16k in a single hit no matter whether they have 25 stacks of bloodlust and might plus applied whatever wvwskill plus a full glass power/crit build…UNLESS they’re attacking a superglassy/underlevel enemy.

Black Teagan.9215:

Introp.8465:

Black Teagan.9215:

If you want to summary the thiefclass in one sentence: “Kill them immediately or they kill you.”

…Or you stealth and disengage more like it.

I play complete without stealth, also if it much harder

evade spamming thiefs are good example of balance as well. spend 80% in evades, 20% spamming button 2

Zutha.5091:

Churning earth is a massively telegraphed ability and anyone with an IQ above 50 can dodge it.

50? You can have an IQ of 1 and still have time to escape, that or you can just interrupt them, unless they are using another insanely long cool down skill to prevent that, in which case – just walk out, with such a long cast time you could walk all the way out and laugh at them as they waste a an insanely long cast time skill that will hit NO player. Unless of course you have friends that are keeping them there, That Guardian ring for example.

Form.8741:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Black Teagan.9215:

If you want to summary the thiefclass in one sentence: “Kill them immediately or stealth and repeat your button spamming once they have used there defensive cool downs to stop your first batch of burst.”

Fixed it for you. The sort of damage Thief can do is simply broken. What other class has an attack that can do up to 16k damage in ONE hit that has NO punishment if the skill is dodged, blocked or immuned? Which allows them to continue to spam it until it hits and then for them to spam #2 until the target is dead…

Lets not forget that this burst can ONLY be “avoided” if you actually SEE them. You stand NO chance if they see you first and instantly use one of MANY ways to get cheap and easy Stealth. Sure having advantage is fine, that advantage leading to near 1hit kills is NOT fine.

Warrior does several skills actually, including one that works at 1500 range.

You are forgetting that those can be dodged, easier to dodge attacks with long cast times when you know they are coming. Try dodging a skill from a class you don’t know is there of an attack you dont know is coming…

Form.8741:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Black Teagan.9215:

If you want to summary the thiefclass in one sentence: “Kill them immediately or stealth and repeat your button spamming once they have used there defensive cool downs to stop your first batch of burst.”

Fixed it for you. The sort of damage Thief can do is simply broken. What other class has an attack that can do up to 16k damage in ONE hit that has NO punishment if the skill is dodged, blocked or immuned? Which allows them to continue to spam it until it hits and then for them to spam #2 until the target is dead…

Lets not forget that this burst can ONLY be “avoided” if you actually SEE them. You stand NO chance if they see you first and instantly use one of MANY ways to get cheap and easy Stealth. Sure having advantage is fine, that advantage leading to near 1hit kills is NOT fine.

Warrior does several skills actually, including one that works at 1500 range.

You see, warrior cannot ever spam anything that damage thief does. If he could than thief would die in 2 hits vs warrior? It takes alot of time to set up any good eviscerate, an you get blinded before that anyways. Oh, you mean 1500 range killshot which has 2s+ cast time and most obvious kneeing animation ever, you get hit by that? normal player would evade/reflect it, baddie like you gets hard time it seems.

and this thread about thief lol, go create 50th thread about warrior if you are so kitten about it

Ignorance is bliss. You can’t SPAM 2 as thief with s/d, and each combo takes 5 init so you will be out within 2-3 back and forth efforts. Spamming 2 with HS may be repeatable 5-6 times but if it misses most times or only does a tiny bit of damage then you’ve wasted ALL your init and are a sitting duck.

You have NO idea. NONE. Go play thief and lose because it’s not a great profession for 1v1 anymore (nerfed to death).

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Zutha.5091:

Churning earth is a massively telegraphed ability and anyone with an IQ above 50 can dodge it.

50? You can have an IQ of 1 and still have time to escape, that or you can just interrupt them, unless they are using another insanely long cool down skill to prevent that, in which case – just walk out, with such a long cast time you could walk all the way out and laugh at them as they waste a an insanely long cast time skill that will hit NO player. Unless of course you have friends that are keeping them there, That Guardian ring for example.

tbh to land a churning earth I use 2 abilities (around 50sec cooldown each) to not get interrupted, or be out of range… and still they can dodge out of it at the end…

Actually you can DODGE hs with its huge jumping animation too, and you can predict backstab extremely easily since a thief has to go into stealth to be able to do it.

Form.8741:

Ignorance is bliss. You can’t SPAM 2 as thief with s/d, and each combo takes 5 init so you will be out within 2-3 back and forth efforts. Spamming 2 with HS may be repeatable 5-6 times but if it misses most times or only does a tiny bit of damage then you’ve wasted ALL your init and are a sitting duck.

You have NO idea. NONE. Go play thief and lose because it’s not a great profession for 1v1 anymore (nerfed to death).

LOL I DO PLAY A THIEF. not a great profession 1×1? omfg go to sleep, you are tired son. And this thread is about hs spam, not s-d

The ignorant will inherit the earth and they will complain that everyone else is OP because they lose all the time.

Form.8741:

The ignorant will inherit the earth and they will complain that everyone else is OP because they lose all the time.

in this thread you managed to claim 10 times that warrior is op, so you would be non ignorant here?

Form.8741:

Actually you can DODGE hs with its huge jumping animation too, and you can predict backstab extremely easily since a thief has to go into stealth to be able to do it.

and gj, you dodge 1 hs out of 6. and thief wont use this spam as opener, he will lure 1-2 evades and bursts you then. or just strait up 6 on squishy, 4 enought to kill it following opener ( you use 1-2 evades trying to avoid backstab)

Introp.8465:

Black Teagan.9215:

Introp.8465:

Black Teagan.9215:

If you want to summary the thiefclass in one sentence: “Kill them immediately or they kill you.”

…Or you stealth and disengage more like it.

I play complete without stealth, also if it much harder

evade spamming thiefs are good example of balance as well. spend 80% in evades, 20% spamming button 2

Dont wrote bad about a class, who use a traitline with terrible condition remove, more terrible stunbreaker and only 3 useful traits in the whole traitline.

SA is much stronger, cheaper and more useful, than Acrobatic.

Guys, calm down!
I want here a serious discussion, and not the next flamethread, which will close because you can not stop to tussle.

Black Teagan.9215:

Guys, calm down!
I want here a serious discussion, and not the next flamethread, which will close because you can not stop to tussle.

The problem is, It is always going to be a Them Vs Us sort of situation. They don’t to be balanced because it would require them having to EARN kills rather than spam buttons and win.

The same goes for other classes as well, but when a class has SO many broken mechanics – fixing them would make the class rather weak. So if they did (what they should do) nerf the insanely broken burst, fix the likes of HS and remove the Leap Finisher and lower the damage they would then have to (rightly so) buff them defensively. Power Thieves rely on BS and HS and pretty much thats it, of course they need the stealth skills as well but its BS and HS that will get the kills.

Only the poor players of a class would defend such a broken thing where spamming HS actually kills people. You can hit it what 4+ times before you run out of initiative, good job they have stealth options that dont require it…

Part of the problem was the whole initiative idea, it has clearly failed, it is WAY to hard to balance and they should just remove it. Give the class proper weapon cool downs and replace/change the traits that grant initiative to do something else. The Stealth skills would need a 15-20second cool down as well, having a skill that does THAT much damage and ONLY requires you to be in stealth is insane. No punishment if they dodge, block or immune it either is rather poor balancing as well.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Black Teagan.9215:

Guys, calm down!
I want here a serious discussion, and not the next flamethread, which will close because you can not stop to tussle.

The problem is, It is always going to be a Them Vs Us sort of situation. They don’t to be balanced because it would require them having to EARN kills rather than spam buttons and win.

The same goes for other classes as well, but when a class has SO many broken mechanics – fixing them would make the class rather weak. So if they did (what they should do) nerf the insanely broken burst, fix the likes of HS and remove the Leap Finisher and lower the damage they would then have to (rightly so) buff them defensively. Power Thieves rely on BS and HS and pretty much thats it, of course they need the stealth skills as well but its BS and HS that will get the kills.

Only the poor players of a class would defend such a broken thing where spamming HS actually kills people. You can hit it what 4+ times before you run out of initiative, good job they have stealth options that dont require it…

Part of the problem was the whole initiative idea, it has clearly failed, it is WAY to hard to balance and they should just remove it. Give the class proper weapon cool downs and replace/change the traits that grant initiative to do something else. The Stealth skills would need a 15-20second cool down as well, having a skill that does THAT much damage and ONLY requires you to be in stealth is insane. No punishment if they dodge, block or immune it either is rather poor balancing as well.

I dont think that the Initiative is a problem, more the not good balanced costs of the skills, the missing skillsplitting, between the mods, and that many traits and skills only exist to be a DD. Well thieves have nothing else what they can do.

In my eyes is the thief a completly broken class. This starts with stealth, which is in this state really OP and absolute uncontrollable, and a more or less weak acrobatic traitline, followed by the stealmechanic, which is so awful and unspectacular, that I cant find any words to describe it, over S/D that’s nothing more than a dmg weapon, while it could be so much more than this.

Another aspect are the venoms, which are to weak and need to long to recharge to work alone, and this only because Venomous Aura.
The same with the traps and underwater has this clkittener survivability then a fish at land.

And things like this can I tell about most every class.

My biggest hope is, that ANet go away from the idea, of a class that dominate other classes in a 1vs1 and build a class that can really called a “Thief”.

(I mean, what does a Thief in RL, does they deals high dmg to you or stealing they something and left behind a feeling of uneasiness?)

12k Eviscerate
8k Backstab
10k Arcing Arrow
7k Heartseekers
etc.

are just 4 reasons why Ferocity can’t come soon enough.

I agree that Conditions are even dumber at the moment but that’s no reason to have these obscene numbers in a game where any classes have roughly 15k HP.

Here’s your problem:

I’m an ele. 2500 armour.

I suggest deleting and creating a warrior.
Seriously though, 2500 armor is nothing, my ranger has between 2800 and 3000 depending on build and my war has 3300.