Guild Wars 2

Roe.3679:

Give axe splash damage if you hate the idea of cleave.

It’s not about hating the idea of cleave for necro or even disagreeing with introducing it.
It’s about consistency in mechanics. Cleave is an established mechanic available for melee attacks which behave in a certain way. It’s not only a matter of coding, but also nomenclature. There can be no ‘ranged cleave’ – even if it works the very same way it won’t be cleave anymore. A new cleave-like mechanic would have to be introduced, further complicating the whole system, especially that – i assume – only necro would have it.
Rather than reworking a weapon, the skills themselves could receive a buff adding some sort of splash damage/effect on them, as you said, being mechanically close to a non-projectile fireball rather than melee cleaving.

drkn.3429:

Roe.3679:

Give axe splash damage if you hate the idea of cleave.

It’s about consistency in mechanics. Cleave is an established mechanic available for melee attacks which behave in a certain way. It’s not only a matter of coding, but also nomenclature. There can be no ‘ranged cleave’ – even if it works the very same way it won’t be cleave anymore.

It’s called a flamethrower. Unless you are just arguing the semantics, in which case AoE Cone might suit better?

Make axe 1 a line attack. Just like other ranged line attacks, see mesmer gs1

Samhayn.2385:

Make axe 1 a line attack. Just like other ranged line attacks, see mesmer gs1

That apparently was coded into the FX side, and not the specific skill. All skills that had the same “lightning line” FX got this when introduced.

icewyrm.5038:

It’s called a flamethrower. Unless you are just arguing the semantics, in which case AoE Cone might suit better?

Or Grenades. Or Necro Staff. Or Mesmer GS. Or Guardian Staff. Or – bad as it is – Engineer Rifle.

Really, there’s a ton of “cleaving” (unless arguing specific AE shape) weapons which from range do full damage to multiple targets.

Samhayn.2385:

Make axe 1 a line attack. Just like other ranged line attacks, see mesmer gs1

Staff #1 already has that.

For ranged its called piercing. Just saying.

Stand The Wall.6987:

For ranged its called piercing. Just saying.

Which is just syntactic, really. It’s the same thing, an attack which causes full damage to multiple enemies in close proximity.

Some cause this in a cone pattern (many melee attacks, Guardian Staff, Flamethrower), some use a line (Mesmer GS, Necro Staff), others use a circle (Grenades, Mortar).

But somehow, in all these multi-target #1 attacks, the dagger on Necromancers not causing a cone AE is a bad thing. Because yeah, that certainly stands out! -.-

What about Fireball and Explosive shot? Ranged, single target, but doing aoe damage around itself. Weird, Fireball capped at 3 targets only.

Carighan.6758:

Stand The Wall.6987:

For ranged its called piercing. Just saying.

Which is just syntactic, really. It’s the same thing, an attack which causes full damage to multiple enemies in close proximity.

Some cause this in a cone pattern (many melee attacks, Guardian Staff, Flamethrower), some use a line (Mesmer GS, Necro Staff), others use a circle (Grenades, Mortar).

But somehow, in all these multi-target #1 attacks, the dagger on Necromancers not causing a cone AE is a bad thing. Because yeah, that certainly stands out! -.-

Mechanically, they are not the same thing at all. Cleaves are much, much easier to set up and have a wider area of contact. Piercing in this game has a much smaller area of contact and requires two or more targets to be lined up almost perfectly. Cleaving hits in a very wide 180 degree arc within 240 range of your body.

Kravick.4906:

Mechanically, they are not the same thing at all. Cleaves are much, much easier to set up and have a wider area of contact. Piercing in this game has a much smaller area of contact and requires two or more targets to be lined up almost perfectly. Cleaving hits in a very wide 180 degree arc within 240 range of your body.

Sounds like completely the same thing mechanically to me, just with different numbers and a different underlying pattern.

If it’s a problem, buff line width. I mean, in general. Although I guess Staff would first of all need a buff in general, and given it’s AE nature that could very much solve the issue right away.

Carighan.6758:

But somehow, in all these multi-target #1 attacks, the dagger on Necromancers not causing a cone AE is a bad thing. Because yeah, that certainly stands out! -.-

The real problem is that the only multi-target weapon we have is the Staff, which can do piercing damage. But I think we all know just how rubbish the Staff is for DPS. It’s projectiles are so slow, you can outrun them.

This is why one of the necro melee weapons should have some sort of a Cleave effect. So that a close combat necro with a focus on DPS, can actually hit multiple targets just like just about about any of the other classes.

Both dagger and axe make sense to have some sort of a multi-target-hit effect. Because without it, the necro is simply left in the dust by every other class in close combat. It should be possible to spec a necromancer towards close combat, and do damage to multiple targets, just like everyone else.

And actually you dont just stab with the dagger as a necro, you summon those … things which hurts your enemy. The third part of the attack chain is a huge mouth which bites your enemies face off …

Point being, it’s a close combat weapon. Most necros who use dagger, are often running some sort of a DPS set up, or life siphon build. And hitting multiple targets would really help them be on par with other classes with a similar set up.

Personally though, I still feel the axe is a better choice for a Cleave-like effect. If simply for the fact that it is an axe. It makes more sense.

The axe auto attack is very, very bad in terms of damage. If axe did cleave, necro would still in the same boat it is now.

It seems like they designed the Necro around Death Shroud mostly. If you’re not using Death Shroud you will get spanked, unless you use life steal and Spectral skills you might survive a bit longer though. I agree, Necro do need AoE on auto attack. Axe has crappy damage as well.

A lot of people in this thread are too hung up on the word “cleave.” Necro doesn’t need a “cleave” specifically, just a way to deal sustained AoE damage, cleave just being an example of it. Axe 1 and 2 both would be great candidates for a single target attack with an AoE effect around impact, like Necro trident 1 or Elem fireballs. The animation or effects wouldn’t even need to change, they’re sufficiently AoE-ish as they are now. If anything, they could be scaled up a little to show it off more as an AoE. And if anyone is worried about the LF gain from axe 2 on multiple targets, just don’t make it per target. This would put axe in a much better position too, instead of being just a utility weapon as it usually ends up being.