Guild Wars 2

crunchyraisin.6054:

You’re right Indigo, it does seem odd…if you only read the title.

Comparing ranger LB with warrior rifle is exactly the type of comparisons that I’m trying to stop. They are not the same.

Rangers have a pet, medium armor, 1500 range while warriors have heavy armor, 1000 range. Completely different set of traits and utilities. It is completely insane to look at the dps or the burst skill and say that is what makes one better than the other when there are so many other factors that effect how useful that build is in certain situational gameplay.

and despite having “worse stats” a LB ranger will wreck a rifle warrior any day. It is just the truth. That is how ranger is, that is what is simply excel at. Destroying single targets at range.

All I’m really seeing is more people who are labeled as good playing thief than Mesmer, a population count shouldn’t have any say in that matter. Only thing thief excels at over Mesmer is getting from point a to point B versus stopping at point B to port back to A (in other words, lol at anet saying Mesmer has great mobility). They have more group utility on their viable builds without so many weak spots. Chaos armor is a pretty big thing, as is Aoe boon stripping/condi clear, things a Mesmer can do and a thief cannot do nearly as well.

WVW, I still see them everywhere. It’s not uncommon to find them roaming and even as a “veil bot” the fact that they have those little things is better than what thief has which is “blast bot” followed by being dead.

Pvp they aren’t a copy of thief but they sure can build like them and be hard to catch.

Pve, who cares.

selan.8354:

Anton.1769:

crunchyraisin.6054:

The problem is not mesmer balance….the problem people playing one class in only one aspect of the game. If you only play less that 5% of the game don’t expect to be able to do 100% of things.

Also….null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills. Mesmers also make extremely effective roamers and scouts when you’re bored. I enjoy the mesmer. It is viable in every aspect of the game, although I would personally like to see it buffed a little in pve, especially for low levels.

mesmer is useless at any aspects of game. It is said by main mesmer.
PvP – useless
WvW – veilbot + even almost 0 abilities to tag enemies to receive loot(“null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills” – Necros laugh at this xD.)
PvE – portalbot at CoF – nothing more.
Mesmers only viable at 1×1 or at small roaming groups at open field. You can enjoy mesmer, but if you play some different classes you will see his defectiveness.

as a wvw player, that mained a mes since release and now gave up and switched to necro, i have to agrre with u. thats exactly how i feel about the mesmer. we used to be great in wvw. now we are only there to put down veil and then try to stay alive while GWEN gets all the loot and u get 2 bags because u managed to aa people with gs 2…

Let me dry your Mesmer tears with the pelt of my Ranger pet that died 1.1 seconds into a fight and took a massive chunk of the class’s dps and traits with it.

Veil, Null Field, Mass Invis, Portal, and Time Warp are all insanely powerful WvW skills that can make or break large-scale engagements.

I’ll never understand why people bring a Mesmer into WvW and then complain that it isn’t an Elementalist.

I mean, if all you want is mindless “Tag for bag” game play, the Guardian Staff auto-attack is right there and nothing works better.

very well put, OP, very thoughtful and accurate

Julie Yann.5379:

Comparing classes can be done if you are comparing the class as a whole and not just individual skills. I see many people comparing different skills across professions, claiming that one is OP compared to the other, without taking into consideration the core differences between the 2 professions. The skill itself might seem drastically strong or weak by itself but when you look at the bigger picture including the entire class mechanics you often see that there is a reason for said skills to be the way they are, but some still refuse to see that.

Smartest and most truthful post in this thread.

Julie Yann.5379:

Comparing classes can be done if you are comparing the class as a whole and not just individual skills. I see many people comparing different skills across professions, claiming that one is OP compared to the other, without taking into consideration the core differences between the 2 professions. The skill itself might seem drastically strong or weak by itself but when you look at the bigger picture including the entire class mechanics you often see that there is a reason for said skills to be the way they are, but some still refuse to see that.

Quoting this again for visibility.
The problem with comparing on a skill-per-skill basis is that the context is entirely different. Often times different classes won’t even use comparable skills in a comparable situation due to other skills and effects which are ongoing.

Substance E.4852:

selan.8354:

Anton.1769:

crunchyraisin.6054:

The problem is not mesmer balance….the problem people playing one class in only one aspect of the game. If you only play less that 5% of the game don’t expect to be able to do 100% of things.

Also….null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills. Mesmers also make extremely effective roamers and scouts when you’re bored. I enjoy the mesmer. It is viable in every aspect of the game, although I would personally like to see it buffed a little in pve, especially for low levels.

mesmer is useless at any aspects of game. It is said by main mesmer.
PvP – useless
WvW – veilbot + even almost 0 abilities to tag enemies to receive loot(“null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills” – Necros laugh at this xD.)
PvE – portalbot at CoF – nothing more.
Mesmers only viable at 1×1 or at small roaming groups at open field. You can enjoy mesmer, but if you play some different classes you will see his defectiveness.

as a wvw player, that mained a mes since release and now gave up and switched to necro, i have to agrre with u. thats exactly how i feel about the mesmer. we used to be great in wvw. now we are only there to put down veil and then try to stay alive while GWEN gets all the loot and u get 2 bags because u managed to aa people with gs 2…

Let me dry your Mesmer tears with the pelt of my Ranger pet that died 1.1 seconds into a fight and took a massive chunk of the class’s dps and traits with it.

Veil, Null Field, Mass Invis, Portal, and Time Warp are all insanely powerful WvW skills that can make or break large-scale engagements.

I’ll never understand why people bring a Mesmer into WvW and then complain that it isn’t an Elementalist.

I mean, if all you want is mindless “Tag for bag” game play, the Guardian Staff auto-attack is right there and nothing works better.

powerful in what way? the dmg it deals…oh thats right none of them does, because of theri low cooldowns?oh thats right they are all on massive cooldowns, portalbombs? cmon everyone is prepared for this…tw cannot make or brake a large scale combat , neither does any of the others at all!

I know right, comparing across classes is so stupid. Can’t we all just agree that warrior is supposed to have the best of everything?

selan.8354:

Substance E.4852:

selan.8354:

Anton.1769:

crunchyraisin.6054:

The problem is not mesmer balance….the problem people playing one class in only one aspect of the game. If you only play less that 5% of the game don’t expect to be able to do 100% of things.

Also….null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills. Mesmers also make extremely effective roamers and scouts when you’re bored. I enjoy the mesmer. It is viable in every aspect of the game, although I would personally like to see it buffed a little in pve, especially for low levels.

mesmer is useless at any aspects of game. It is said by main mesmer.
PvP – useless
WvW – veilbot + even almost 0 abilities to tag enemies to receive loot(“null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills” – Necros laugh at this xD.)
PvE – portalbot at CoF – nothing more.
Mesmers only viable at 1×1 or at small roaming groups at open field. You can enjoy mesmer, but if you play some different classes you will see his defectiveness.

as a wvw player, that mained a mes since release and now gave up and switched to necro, i have to agrre with u. thats exactly how i feel about the mesmer. we used to be great in wvw. now we are only there to put down veil and then try to stay alive while GWEN gets all the loot and u get 2 bags because u managed to aa people with gs 2…

Let me dry your Mesmer tears with the pelt of my Ranger pet that died 1.1 seconds into a fight and took a massive chunk of the class’s dps and traits with it.

Veil, Null Field, Mass Invis, Portal, and Time Warp are all insanely powerful WvW skills that can make or break large-scale engagements.

I’ll never understand why people bring a Mesmer into WvW and then complain that it isn’t an Elementalist.

I mean, if all you want is mindless “Tag for bag” game play, the Guardian Staff auto-attack is right there and nothing works better.

powerful in what way? the dmg it deals…oh thats right none of them does, because of theri low cooldowns?oh thats right they are all on massive cooldowns, portalbombs? cmon everyone is prepared for this…tw cannot make or brake a large scale combat , neither does any of the others at all!

So you want utility support and massive damage? Honestly Mesmer Q.Q from being nerfed is as hysterical as warrior Q.Q from being nerfed at this point. Not that they are equally unbalanced, but the fact that they can do so much and get upset for being toned down (and Mesmer takes 10000000X more skill to play than warrior). When you wana cry over being excluded from a lot of content look at ranger and thief.

U can take away utility support whenever u want. Just make devs balance us like they balance warriors. I would be fine with that. Portal and veil would be a little sacrifice.

NinjaEd.3946:

selan.8354:

Substance E.4852:

selan.8354:

Anton.1769:

crunchyraisin.6054:

The problem is not mesmer balance….the problem people playing one class in only one aspect of the game. If you only play less that 5% of the game don’t expect to be able to do 100% of things.

Also….null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills. Mesmers also make extremely effective roamers and scouts when you’re bored. I enjoy the mesmer. It is viable in every aspect of the game, although I would personally like to see it buffed a little in pve, especially for low levels.

mesmer is useless at any aspects of game. It is said by main mesmer.
PvP – useless
WvW – veilbot + even almost 0 abilities to tag enemies to receive loot(“null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills” – Necros laugh at this xD.)
PvE – portalbot at CoF – nothing more.
Mesmers only viable at 1×1 or at small roaming groups at open field. You can enjoy mesmer, but if you play some different classes you will see his defectiveness.

as a wvw player, that mained a mes since release and now gave up and switched to necro, i have to agrre with u. thats exactly how i feel about the mesmer. we used to be great in wvw. now we are only there to put down veil and then try to stay alive while GWEN gets all the loot and u get 2 bags because u managed to aa people with gs 2…

Let me dry your Mesmer tears with the pelt of my Ranger pet that died 1.1 seconds into a fight and took a massive chunk of the class’s dps and traits with it.

Veil, Null Field, Mass Invis, Portal, and Time Warp are all insanely powerful WvW skills that can make or break large-scale engagements.

I’ll never understand why people bring a Mesmer into WvW and then complain that it isn’t an Elementalist.

I mean, if all you want is mindless “Tag for bag” game play, the Guardian Staff auto-attack is right there and nothing works better.

powerful in what way? the dmg it deals…oh thats right none of them does, because of theri low cooldowns?oh thats right they are all on massive cooldowns, portalbombs? cmon everyone is prepared for this…tw cannot make or brake a large scale combat , neither does any of the others at all!

So you want utility support and massive damage? Honestly Mesmer Q.Q from being nerfed is as hysterical as warrior Q.Q from being nerfed at this point. Not that they are equally unbalanced, but the fact that they can do so much and get upset for being toned down (and Mesmer takes 10000000X more skill to play than warrior). When you wana cry over being excluded from a lot of content look at ranger and thief.

1 problem – memser hass the worst support and the worst damage. As PVT warrior I deal 2 times more AREA damage then bers mesmer to 1-2 enemie

Seriously your thread doesnt make sense at all. If all class are equal/fit certains roles and require no balance, why is the ranger class has little to no use in high competitive tpvp. Why ranger have little to no use in WvW? Why is the ranger outscaled by thief in roaming when it supposed to be the ranger strenght? Why high lvl PVE dislike ranger because their small contribution to the party?

And dont say ranger is a jack of all trades… Engi is. Ranger is subpar in every gw2 mode except maybe solo pve (which a class should not be design for…).

You might be the best player NA, but you never made into top 1000 with every single class. Therefore you dont know every class flaws and thus should not comment like they are equal because they are not. Like you said each class fit a role. Therefore, they are not equal as long as they dont fit EACH role (which wont happen).

And also ranger LB is not 1500 (TRAITED) it is 1200 (NOT TRAITED) … that just prove you dont have enough knowledge of the class to classify it as equal to other…

crunchyraisin.6054:

Because of class mechanics it is arrogant to compare specific skills directly across classes.

crunchyraisin.6054:

Julie Yann.5379:

Comparing classes can be done if you are comparing the class as a whole and not just individual skills. I see many people comparing different skills across professions, claiming that one is OP compared to the other, without taking into consideration the core differences between the 2 professions. The skill itself might seem drastically strong or weak by itself but when you look at the bigger picture including the entire class mechanics you often see that there is a reason for said skills to be the way they are, but some still refuse to see that.

Can I get an amen!!!? This person gets it.

@crunch Have u already read my pre posts above? so i should think that u accept all what i said?
as example: i am guessing u understand why nullfield is not OP in wvw?

- indeed.. it is happening to mesmers as well.. example, u ve veil.. ohh bla bla u are ok..
yes we say veil bot it means.. do u know what is veil bot mean? rather than 1 skill(veil) u cant do in any role ( better compare to other classes = delete veil.. or respect nature of gaming sprit..
and it s subjectively my theory that u ll not see any veil bots atleast in kind of competitive gvg organizations.. if meta ll be the say as this.. or if getting nerfs(or how u say getting bugfixes)[u can see competitive meta gvg players has already understanded veil ed moves already, but still it can work vs pug zergs as how everything can work as Feedback :S mantra heal vs pvd]

o @crunch my theory about this `mesmers is not viable fair enough in tpvp`..
because.. if highend tpvp mesmers can say that they would be better productive/efficient/effective to his group if they were another class with the same skill play as they do with mesmer`` so there is something WRONG with MESMER aswell in tpvp..
i mean population of mesmer doesnt show how viable they are in tpvp.. (/who says there are still mesmers in tpvp)

@NinjaEd pls read my posts and ask if u ve question would be my pleasure to help u..
yes cuz of not making of wall of text i made some short cuts for what?where?how?why? question`s answers that it can seem still not enough objective..

- `So you want utility support and massive damage?` It is available, well necros.. and it is really desirable thing.. and staff eles + having more CC – maybe less damage (i can be wrong with + – havent theorycraft clearly them) while they are more survival from shatter mes? except pu mesmer in shortly and if shout wars? – support + survival(not survival tanking should more fit if u adding positiong challenge) – sustain damage(dps) and more cc ec. u can add other meta builds/classes thiefs, dd ele, dps war etc..

yes mesmers cry.. but would better to understand why? how? where?

NinjaEd.3946:

WVW, I still see them everywhere. It’s not uncommon to find them roaming and even as a “veil bot” the fact that they have those little things is better than what thief has which is “blast bot” followed by being dead.

- there is a 2 types of gaming competitive/casual(scrub)
u say who cares PVE
i say who cares Scrub gaming (probably u lack of understanding what gvg thief can do instead of pugzergs busters groups [which most guild raids do]
- yes anet say mesmer has great mobility = politics.. as above i had some words about it as ``having high CC``= they should have some goals with saying it or it can be IQ/illitirate problem..
defining problem of mobility..

o @Substance E, yeah rangers as well sux[with my first impression/subjective].. even they are not desirable for organized PuG zergs as well i dont see any eng in gvg as well i am not knowladged/experianced with that 2 classes.. i feel the same when your pet died in sec, as my phantasms as well with 0 sec as well.. (i wanna compare any of other classes skills can be dead insta/obstructed as these ? yeah it means not fair with not working with desirable , + its main archetypes of that classes)
yes thats why cuz of veil tw portal mesmer is better than ranger in overall efficient as everybody accept it.. as the same as mesmer have more seats than ranger 1 is bigger than 0
ofc mesmer is not ele lol.. but if anet say that ``MESMER has very much CC(crowd control) yeaa very much pleany things `` bla bla.. check on `ready up` and how they say check their body languages as well.. and without stating any part of game mode.. that which words go to gw2 with its all modes(wvw Large scale groups as well) what is that mean tell me? while they were saying that in ready up Balance Philisophy`` Balances should include wvw`` i ll try to find what it can mean..

• intimidating.. they re closing to curtain to buff mesmer (can be exampled as they gave power block skill to mes then nerfed, same as another chaos gm trait, focus pull bla bla)
• they are illitirate, not knowladgable/not experianced (one of scrub tell them something and they belived without judge)
• they mean they gonna nerf mesmer (example: iLeap[sword #3])
• they re taking strengths from scrubs/not competitive players/role players/lamers/trollers/causals who hasnt got any competitive experiance and who are most percentage of population of gw2(QoL is sux) (every body nows how many competitive players already left gw2 since launched maybe it was their goal :S —> less players will find their cons, that will not influence/intimidate other not competitive players who are already likes to shining items buying gems players)
• or they are just `yes-men`(talking from already constructed disccusion with in othority, they dont belive what they say as well [hint: check body language and complix talks from them]
• comparision: mesmers broken mechanic vs what other classes have in term of CC (want me to open this thing more? pls not now, but in conclusion, try self.. how other classes can CC + while they can do other roles with efficiently vs mesmer :P) answer from me is.. if not have veil, take another class for what role u ll put him.. ) again is it fair to nature of gaming? wish that competitive gvg compositons ll play without veil, so without mesmer that it can take attention where as no one ll have any excuse..
  if anet would clever from minor point.. at least for big segment of gw2 i would care to make mesmer more viable for tagging.. but ofc we can add pleany theories example: this made mesmer to roll another class —> from anet mission accomplished.. or more :P

• jack of all trades, something as celestial having all but none of is better compare any other ones mesmer is the same.. however i remember some words from anet offically..
  it was offical interview about ll be have healer class question.. and they said, no we dont want any class is highly desiriable and contrast.. it was anet philisophy about viablity in classes in anywhere.. i should have link but i am in slacker mode to find it now.. anyway what is the state of game viablity of any class in any environment? LoL!

@OP it is for u and who is in with topic says.. Why there is a big differences of viability of classes each other? i wanna give answer it is because of comparision!! in terms of `Looking better efficient in` Where why how situations!!!
it let me think that Are u fake devoloper account? for marketing research? `sarcasm`

It’s not that some classes are meant to have mobility while others aren’t.

Mesmers have zero mobility.
If we want mobility, we sacrifice an element of our base damage or utility. And you learn quick that in order to do any damage as a mesmer, you have to go full blown while using all of your utility skills for escapes. All of which ele/thiefs do 100% better.

Our only option is to buy runes, which is a sorry excuse. So now Mesmers are forced to purchase specific runes? Gimps our damage even more.
Also, I don’t buy into the whole, “Well your class can’t be good at everything !” Uh, it can at least be viable to some capacity. You’re reinforcing a meta, and expecting a meta. The job of a balancing team is to try to switch that meta up when the meta begins to absolutely dominate every player’s decision (because it implies imbalance) – thus very few (and bored) Mesmers.

Look, I know Mesmers can be very effective duelists, but the cost/difficulty does not weigh equal with the reward. Where Mesmers have to time and predict very precise movements with absolutely no other interruptions (like a teammate running in at the last second) – an ele or thief is not effected in the same manner. And it has a lot to do with the basic fundamental way the key function of a Mesmer works. Illusions have always been horribly undependable. Many of our key abilities are immensely buggy still, (just remove the whole illusion thing from our sword leap, I’M BEGGING YOU) and our trait lines and weapon abilities have always seemed completely random aside from a couple of exceptions.
I mean, boons for shattering in the Chaos line? Everywhere I look, the Chaos line is typically about NOT shattering your illusions.
I could go on, but even looking at a classes like the Necro – the trees make so much more sense, with traits that seem to actually build on one another – rather than just random conflicting themes spread among the final trait lines.

Wintel.4873:

I know right, comparing across classes is so stupid. Can’t we all just agree that warrior is supposed to have the best of everything?

I don’t think you have to worry about whether everyone agrees with this or not. Arenanet obviously share your viewpoint and after all they are the only ones who matter as they are the ones who program the game.

Thanks.

Halfcentaur.9706:

It’s not that some classes are meant to have mobility while others aren’t.

Mesmers have zero mobility.
If we want mobility, we sacrifice an element of our base damage or utility. And you learn quick that in order to do any damage as a mesmer, you have to go full blown while using all of your utility skills for escapes. All of which ele/thiefs do 100% better.

Ele, maybe since they can self-might stack removing any need to equip damaging stats but thief is in the same boat. You must misinterpret how thieves work, which is strange if you’re a Mesmer player. A thief can bounce around and evade, but we don’t get anywhere near 100% more survivability while maintain the damage a Mesmer can pull off.

This Mesmer Q.Q is a joke these days, they see a few “pro” thieves and suddenly thief is viable and OP. Mesmer can blow up a thief and be just as slippery, I’ve watched it in videos and spectating and been a victim of it since launch while experiencing a multitude of nerfs, sorry if I have zero sympathy for your class.

crunchyraisin.6054:

I’ll probably keep playing turret engie until people learn how to fight me(or not fight me)…seems like quickest way to 3rd champ title.

You must be good.

Eviscera.9703:

crunchyraisin.6054:

I’ll probably keep playing turret engie until people learn how to fight me(or not fight me)…seems like quickest way to 3rd champ title.

You must be good.

Turret engi too str0nk. In all honesty anyone claiming to be good based off of being a turret engi really has absolutely no semblance of what balance is.

jportell.2197:

Eviscera.9703:

crunchyraisin.6054:

I’ll probably keep playing turret engie until people learn how to fight me(or not fight me)…seems like quickest way to 3rd champ title.

You must be good.

Turret engi too str0nk. In all honesty anyone claiming to be good based off of being a turret engi really has absolutely no semblance of what balance is.

A.) I never claimed to be good.
B.) I’ve played less than 10% of my over 1k matches on engie.
C.) Your guild runs these.
D.) None of this has anything to do with the main point of the thread, which I will re-paraphrase for the 7th or 8th time now. It is wrong to compare specific skills directly without consideration of the overall build and it’s class mechanics.
E.) I never claimed turret engies aren’t op. I simply said that they have a significant weakness.
F.) I have played a significant amount of matches on almost every class. I multi-class significantly more than the majority of players. I like to believe I have a very good idea of the balance and paper rock scissors aspect of this game.
G.)That comment had one purpose which was to be rude and attack my credibility. Please learn to read before you make yourself look bad.

Klonko.8341:

Seriously your thread doesnt make sense at all. If all class are equal/fit certains roles and require no balance, why is the ranger class has little to no use in high competitive tpvp. Why ranger have little to no use in WvW? Why is the ranger outscaled by thief in roaming when it supposed to be the ranger strenght? Why high lvl PVE dislike ranger because their small contribution to the party?

And dont say ranger is a jack of all trades… Engi is. Ranger is subpar in every gw2 mode except maybe solo pve (which a class should not be design for…).

You might be the best player NA, but you never made into top 1000 with every single class. Therefore you dont know every class flaws and thus should not comment like they are equal because they are not. Like you said each class fit a role. Therefore, they are not equal as long as they dont fit EACH role (which wont happen).

And also ranger LB is not 1500 (TRAITED) it is 1200 (NOT TRAITED) … that just prove you dont have enough knowledge of the class to classify it as equal to other…

A.) I did not claim that it was perfectly balanced. I’ve actually said the opposite multiple times on this thread. Please read more carefully.
B.) Ranger does have use in competitive Tpvp. There was a power ranger doing very well in the quartarfinals of the first ToL qualifier. We run a power ranger in our team. Spirit rangers are still very strong team fighters. Trap rangers are making a comeback on side nodes.
C.) Ranger is weak in Zergs, yet so are many other professions. It has a stigma of being worse than it is in wvw. I’ve already conceded this exact point, please read carefully.
D.) I never claimed to be the best player in NA or anything close to that…but I have worked my way into top 200 solo q playing on 4 different classes. I never said they are all equal.
E.) Longbow rangers still do very well in 1v1’s and will destroy rifle warriors most of the time.
F.) Why are you doing nothing but defending rangers on a thread who’s main point has nothing to do with attacking rangers? My point is AGAIN…It is wrong to compare specific skills across professions that have completely different mechanics.
G.) Rangers need dps buffs in high level PVE, or at least a stow pet option, I know this….

selan.8354:

Substance E.4852:

selan.8354:

Anton.1769:

crunchyraisin.6054:

The problem is not mesmer balance….the problem people playing one class in only one aspect of the game. If you only play less that 5% of the game don’t expect to be able to do 100% of things.

Also….null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills. Mesmers also make extremely effective roamers and scouts when you’re bored. I enjoy the mesmer. It is viable in every aspect of the game, although I would personally like to see it buffed a little in pve, especially for low levels.

mesmer is useless at any aspects of game. It is said by main mesmer.
PvP – useless
WvW – veilbot + even almost 0 abilities to tag enemies to receive loot(“null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills” – Necros laugh at this xD.)
PvE – portalbot at CoF – nothing more.
Mesmers only viable at 1×1 or at small roaming groups at open field. You can enjoy mesmer, but if you play some different classes you will see his defectiveness.

as a wvw player, that mained a mes since release and now gave up and switched to necro, i have to agrre with u. thats exactly how i feel about the mesmer. we used to be great in wvw. now we are only there to put down veil and then try to stay alive while GWEN gets all the loot and u get 2 bags because u managed to aa people with gs 2…

Let me dry your Mesmer tears with the pelt of my Ranger pet that died 1.1 seconds into a fight and took a massive chunk of the class’s dps and traits with it.

Veil, Null Field, Mass Invis, Portal, and Time Warp are all insanely powerful WvW skills that can make or break large-scale engagements.

I’ll never understand why people bring a Mesmer into WvW and then complain that it isn’t an Elementalist.

I mean, if all you want is mindless “Tag for bag” game play, the Guardian Staff auto-attack is right there and nothing works better.

powerful in what way? the dmg it deals…oh thats right none of them does, because of theri low cooldowns?oh thats right they are all on massive cooldowns, portalbombs? cmon everyone is prepared for this…tw cannot make or brake a large scale combat , neither does any of the others at all!

I guess I’ll have to break it down for you.

Veil – Allows for pin point repositioning of an entire zerg. Smashing into back lines with a hammer train can win 2-3v1 easily.

Mass Invis – I don’t see this used as often but follows the same use as Veil.

Portal – The amount of times I’ve seen keeps taken because a hidden mesmer ported in a zerg to the lord room is crazy. Also, good luck golem rushing anything without a portal chain.

Null field – Create a field of energy that rips all boons from foes, and cures all conditions on allies. which creates a ethereal feild that can be blasted for Chaos Armor Give yourself random boons and your foe random conditions whenever you are struck. nuff said…

Time Warp – 10 seconds of aoe quickness that can make a golem pack melt doors and also lays down an ethereal field.

If all you care about is spamming aoe nuke spells, the Elementalist is right there. That’s literally what they are all about.

Substance E.4852:

selan.8354:

Substance E.4852:

selan.8354:

Anton.1769:

crunchyraisin.6054:

The problem is not mesmer balance….the problem people playing one class in only one aspect of the game. If you only play less that 5% of the game don’t expect to be able to do 100% of things.

Also….null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills. Mesmers also make extremely effective roamers and scouts when you’re bored. I enjoy the mesmer. It is viable in every aspect of the game, although I would personally like to see it buffed a little in pve, especially for low levels.

mesmer is useless at any aspects of game. It is said by main mesmer.
PvP – useless
WvW – veilbot + even almost 0 abilities to tag enemies to receive loot(“null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills” – Necros laugh at this xD.)
PvE – portalbot at CoF – nothing more.
Mesmers only viable at 1×1 or at small roaming groups at open field. You can enjoy mesmer, but if you play some different classes you will see his defectiveness.

as a wvw player, that mained a mes since release and now gave up and switched to necro, i have to agrre with u. thats exactly how i feel about the mesmer. we used to be great in wvw. now we are only there to put down veil and then try to stay alive while GWEN gets all the loot and u get 2 bags because u managed to aa people with gs 2…

Let me dry your Mesmer tears with the pelt of my Ranger pet that died 1.1 seconds into a fight and took a massive chunk of the class’s dps and traits with it.

Veil, Null Field, Mass Invis, Portal, and Time Warp are all insanely powerful WvW skills that can make or break large-scale engagements.

I’ll never understand why people bring a Mesmer into WvW and then complain that it isn’t an Elementalist.

I mean, if all you want is mindless “Tag for bag” game play, the Guardian Staff auto-attack is right there and nothing works better.

powerful in what way? the dmg it deals…oh thats right none of them does, because of theri low cooldowns?oh thats right they are all on massive cooldowns, portalbombs? cmon everyone is prepared for this…tw cannot make or brake a large scale combat , neither does any of the others at all!

I guess I’ll have to break it down for you.

Veil – Allows for pin point repositioning of an entire zerg. Smashing into back lines with a hammer train can win 2-3v1 easily.

Mass Invis – I don’t see this used as often but follows the same use as Veil.

Portal – The amount of times I’ve seen keeps taken because a hidden mesmer ported in a zerg to the lord room is crazy. Also, good luck golem rushing anything without a portal chain.

Null field – Create a field of energy that rips all boons from foes, and cures all conditions on allies. which creates a ethereal feild that can be blasted for Chaos Armor Give yourself random boons and your foe random conditions whenever you are struck. nuff said…

Time Warp – 10 seconds of aoe quickness that can make a golem pack melt doors and also lays down an ethereal field.

If all you care about is spamming aoe nuke spells, the Elementalist is right there. That’s literally what they are all about.

Utility bots. We get it. Also, Null Field was nerfed since beta. It has 5 max targets and only removes 1 boon per sec. Not much.

Sergoros.4398:

Substance E.4852:

selan.8354:

Substance E.4852:

selan.8354:

Anton.1769:

crunchyraisin.6054:

The problem is not mesmer balance….the problem people playing one class in only one aspect of the game. If you only play less that 5% of the game don’t expect to be able to do 100% of things.

Also….null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills. Mesmers also make extremely effective roamers and scouts when you’re bored. I enjoy the mesmer. It is viable in every aspect of the game, although I would personally like to see it buffed a little in pve, especially for low levels.

mesmer is useless at any aspects of game. It is said by main mesmer.
PvP – useless
WvW – veilbot + even almost 0 abilities to tag enemies to receive loot(“null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills” – Necros laugh at this xD.)
PvE – portalbot at CoF – nothing more.
Mesmers only viable at 1×1 or at small roaming groups at open field. You can enjoy mesmer, but if you play some different classes you will see his defectiveness.

as a wvw player, that mained a mes since release and now gave up and switched to necro, i have to agrre with u. thats exactly how i feel about the mesmer. we used to be great in wvw. now we are only there to put down veil and then try to stay alive while GWEN gets all the loot and u get 2 bags because u managed to aa people with gs 2…

Let me dry your Mesmer tears with the pelt of my Ranger pet that died 1.1 seconds into a fight and took a massive chunk of the class’s dps and traits with it.

Veil, Null Field, Mass Invis, Portal, and Time Warp are all insanely powerful WvW skills that can make or break large-scale engagements.

I’ll never understand why people bring a Mesmer into WvW and then complain that it isn’t an Elementalist.

I mean, if all you want is mindless “Tag for bag” game play, the Guardian Staff auto-attack is right there and nothing works better.

powerful in what way? the dmg it deals…oh thats right none of them does, because of theri low cooldowns?oh thats right they are all on massive cooldowns, portalbombs? cmon everyone is prepared for this…tw cannot make or brake a large scale combat , neither does any of the others at all!

I guess I’ll have to break it down for you.

Veil – Allows for pin point repositioning of an entire zerg. Smashing into back lines with a hammer train can win 2-3v1 easily.

Mass Invis – I don’t see this used as often but follows the same use as Veil.

Portal – The amount of times I’ve seen keeps taken because a hidden mesmer ported in a zerg to the lord room is crazy. Also, good luck golem rushing anything without a portal chain.

Null field – Create a field of energy that rips all boons from foes, and cures all conditions on allies. which creates a ethereal feild that can be blasted for Chaos Armor Give yourself random boons and your foe random conditions whenever you are struck. nuff said…

Time Warp – 10 seconds of aoe quickness that can make a golem pack melt doors and also lays down an ethereal field.

If all you care about is spamming aoe nuke spells, the Elementalist is right there. That’s literally what they are all about.

Utility bots. We get it. Also, Null Field was nerfed since beta. It has 5 max targets and only removes 1 boon per sec. Not much.

yep and dont forget that chaosarmor has been nerfed to the ground too. tw has been nerfed, portal has been nerfed, massinvis..u kidding right? so yeah we have utilities, but thats it, they are nowhere near as useful as they used to be. sorry but if u have people scouting, u will see that veil coming a mile away and same with the portalbomb. sorry but veil is last season, and now what?
our utility is less and less needed and now what does mesmer have left? spamming aa on gs? having bugged ai die instantly when spawned without dealing dmg, having shatters mainly fail if not ip traited? yeah fun isnt it. and all those utilities are on long cooldown, so what are u doing during these 40-90 seconds?chill in the back while dealing little to no dmg?

I think Mesmers just don’t like seeing their goodies taken away, and need to complain about the little things without looking at what their profession is still capable of.

Also lol @ Sergoros, aoe boon removal per second + ethereal field and you’re complaining?

1 aoe boon per second. And useless ethereal field. Ask www commanders, how much they want me to drop ethereal field over their fire or water fields

NinjaEd.3946:

Halfcentaur.9706:

/quote]
This Mesmer Q.Q is a joke these days, they see a few “pro” thieves and suddenly thief is viable and OP. Mesmer can blow up a thief and be just as slippery, I’ve watched it in videos and spectating and been a victim of it since launch while experiencing a multitude of nerfs, sorry if I have zero sympathy for your class.

i m giving answer with assuming u read my above posts..

are u trolling or what?
sorry, no need answer pls ignore it will better.. cuz i am not capable enough to discuss things with u i cant reach your iq..
—————————————————————————-

Julie Yann.5379:

Julie Yann.5379:

snip!

General post @ the 3-4 people who are doing nothing but defending their main class: This is still my point. This person just happens to say it much more elegantly than me.

I at no point claim that this game is perfectly balanced, or that every profession can fill every roll at a high level. Stop making up words and twisting them into something else. It’s bad enough to watch guys on FOX do this to religious texts. Don’t do it here.

• i couldnt understand what ` It’s bad enough to watch guys on FOX do this to religious texts. Don’t do it here.` that means..
• ``I see many people comparing different skills across professions, claiming that one is OP compared to the other,`` why it is happening.. let me give a example, i ll compare 1 skill vs from other prof skill..

Balance Philosphy ready up happened https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Ready-Up-15-Balance-Philosophy-6-13-notes/4119502

Dulfy`s Full notes: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/282wjy/balance_philosophy_developer_livestream_notes/
Mesmer: http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/c/4456907 from 44.20
Mesmer: Misdirection, crowd control, utility. Brought in for utility all the way from GW1.
Weakness: Conditions are hard to deal with. Lack of AoE – good single target damage but weak at AoE situation. (A bit weaker than where we want to be. We don’t want to make it too strong as we want you to bring Eles for ranged AoE damage). Mobility – not a ton of mobility due to lack of swiftness but they do have a lot of teleports such as portals. Mesmer can get there and back with portals but can’t go too far forward due to lack of swiftness. Low defense against high burst damage – maybe some small tweaks.
Official design: Access to key utility skills. Gain defense through stealth, evasion, misdirection. Strong 1v1 ranged damage dealer but weaker in sustained AoE damage. Weakness – conditional removal, sustainability if illusions are countered, AoE damage make it hard to sustain illusions.

then mesmer get iLeap nerf/bugfixes in all modes..
in wvw environment(but in competitive environments as unoffical GvG)
let me ask something to u!.. Why would u take mesmer in gvg composition? https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Why-would-u-choose-Mes-in-your-composition/4178473
answer is Veil.. as i mentioned already Veil Boting..except 1 skill mesmer has no respected/efficient role compare to other classes..

some of are saying why u are Good Supporter and and saying nullfield is OP..
bahh.. i really tired bored..

skills/traits makes roles to classes.. and roles is required for maximum efficienties in goal of win..

and skill comparision vs another classes skills have it is logic.. i didnt get what u mean to try? give example.. the reason/goal of your topic?? @OP

if i say mesmer is one of Worst Crowd Controller in gvg because there is not have respected cc compare to other classes…
will be wrong from your view?

Substance E.4852:

selan.8354:

Substance E.4852:

selan.8354:

Anton.1769:

crunchyraisin.6054:

The problem is not mesmer balance….the problem people playing one class in only one aspect of the game. If you only play less that 5% of the game don’t expect to be able to do 100% of things.

Also….null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills. Mesmers also make extremely effective roamers and scouts when you’re bored. I enjoy the mesmer. It is viable in every aspect of the game, although I would personally like to see it buffed a little in pve, especially for low levels.

mesmer is useless at any aspects of game. It is said by main mesmer.
PvP – useless
WvW – veilbot + even almost 0 abilities to tag enemies to receive loot(“null feild is probably one of most op wvw skills” – Necros laugh at this xD.)
PvE – portalbot at CoF – nothing more.
Mesmers only viable at 1×1 or at small roaming groups at open field. You can enjoy mesmer, but if you play some different classes you will see his defectiveness.

as a wvw player, that mained a mes since release and now gave up and switched to necro, i have to agrre with u. thats exactly how i feel about the mesmer. we used to be great in wvw. now we are only there to put down veil and then try to stay alive while GWEN gets all the loot and u get 2 bags because u managed to aa people with gs 2…

Let me dry your Mesmer tears with the pelt of my Ranger pet that died 1.1 seconds into a fight and took a massive chunk of the class’s dps and traits with it.

Veil, Null Field, Mass Invis, Portal, and Time Warp are all insanely powerful WvW skills that can make or break large-scale engagements.

I’ll never understand why people bring a Mesmer into WvW and then complain that it isn’t an Elementalist.

I mean, if all you want is mindless “Tag for bag” game play, the Guardian Staff auto-attack is right there and nothing works better.

powerful in what way? the dmg it deals…oh thats right none of them does, because of theri low cooldowns?oh thats right they are all on massive cooldowns, portalbombs? cmon everyone is prepared for this…tw cannot make or brake a large scale combat , neither does any of the others at all!

I guess I’ll have to break it down for you.

Veil – Allows for pin point repositioning of an entire zerg. Smashing into back lines with a hammer train can win 2-3v1 easily.

Mass Invis – I don’t see this used as often but follows the same use as Veil.

Portal – The amount of times I’ve seen keeps taken because a hidden mesmer ported in a zerg to the lord room is crazy. Also, good luck golem rushing anything without a portal chain.

Null field – Create a field of energy that rips all boons from foes, and cures all conditions on allies. which creates a ethereal feild that can be blasted for Chaos Armor Give yourself random boons and your foe random conditions whenever you are struck. nuff said…

Time Warp – 10 seconds of aoe quickness that can make a golem pack melt doors and also lays down an ethereal field.

If all you care about is spamming aoe nuke spells, the Elementalist is right there. That’s literally what they are all about.

…… i cant even….

Ok, you are just trolling.

I want to mention a guide on how to present an overpower mesmer. I will sum them up in a few bullet points

Always mention the two awesome elite skills such as time warp and mass invisibility. These skills are so awesome that you can bring both. Just bring more mesmers…….

For utilities, always mention that they have veil, feedback, null field, portal.

Pretend that the mesmer can bring all of them without personal survive utilities such as blink or decoy.

All debates must divert attention from the mesmer actually doing damage or running.

All of these points cannot be mention as a argument since mesmer utilities are awesome

Damage is tied to phastasm which anet nerfed the trait that lowers all illusions cooldowns.

Mesmer core mechanics are nerfed; confusion, chaos armor, and ethereal fields are terrible.

The only decent 1 handed weapon was nerfed.

Phantasm dies too easily

Staff damage stinks which is the Mesmer main condition weapon.

Oddly enough, the pistol is a power weapon that applies bleed much better than a staff.

Out of combat, mesmer are the slowest class.

I can add much more bugs and nerfs…

crunchyraisin.6054:

jportell.2197:

Eviscera.9703:

crunchyraisin.6054:

I’ll probably keep playing turret engie until people learn how to fight me(or not fight me)…seems like quickest way to 3rd champ title.

You must be good.

Turret engi too str0nk. In all honesty anyone claiming to be good based off of being a turret engi really has absolutely no semblance of what balance is.

A.) I never claimed to be good.
B.) I’ve played less than 10% of my over 1k matches on engie.
C.) Your guild runs these.
D.) None of this has anything to do with the main point of the thread, which I will re-paraphrase for the 7th or 8th time now. It is wrong to compare specific skills directly without consideration of the overall build and it’s class mechanics.
E.) I never claimed turret engies aren’t op. I simply said that they have a significant weakness.
F.) I have played a significant amount of matches on almost every class. I multi-class significantly more than the majority of players. I like to believe I have a very good idea of the balance and paper rock scissors aspect of this game.
G.)That comment had one purpose which was to be rude and attack my credibility. Please learn to read before you make yourself look bad.

To your 3rd champ title. My guild has stopped running these for the most part. Mainly because my main guild team (which I am in) has gotten to the point where we wreck turret engis every match. And significant is subjective in this context. If you only have almost 3 champ titles I can assure you that you don’t have enough experience across all classes to rightfully talk about balance.

People like Marvin who have 8/8 titles, are more likley to know enough to talk about balance at high level plays.

On point of this thread if you look at one of my earlier posts I mention exactly why class comparison should happen.

It is mainly because Anet designed all classes to be able to fill most roles in this game…. right now it definitely isn’t happening especially with the mesmer profession, (my mesmer has been shelved for the last 6 months… so yeah.)

Azo.5860:

NinjaEd.3946:

Halfcentaur.9706:

/quote]
This Mesmer Q.Q is a joke these days, they see a few “pro” thieves and suddenly thief is viable and OP. Mesmer can blow up a thief and be just as slippery, I’ve watched it in videos and spectating and been a victim of it since launch while experiencing a multitude of nerfs, sorry if I have zero sympathy for your class.

i m giving answer with assuming u read my above posts..

are u trolling or what?
sorry, no need answer pls ignore it will better.. cuz i am not capable enough to discuss things with u i cant reach your iq..
—————————————————————————-

Its funny that you and countless others think you’re not good compared to other classes. Seriously, did I miss the opposite day memo?

Maybe you should get better, that’s all I hear when thief gets nerfed and we’ve been nerfed hard numerous times with zero compensation. So no, not trolling. If I didn’t enjoy the playstyle of thief so much I’d gladly trade mine in for a Mesmer, at least I get globally known skills that do something.

Want to trade null field for shadow refuge? Pretty please? I dislike AoE and being CC’ed out of it while making it near impossible to stealth downed allies when they pretend their AA is going to do something. What other support skills do you dislike? I’ll probably trade ya.

NinjaEd.3946:

Azo.5860:

NinjaEd.3946:

Halfcentaur.9706:

/quote]
This Mesmer Q.Q is a joke these days, they see a few “pro” thieves and suddenly thief is viable and OP. Mesmer can blow up a thief and be just as slippery, I’ve watched it in videos and spectating and been a victim of it since launch while experiencing a multitude of nerfs, sorry if I have zero sympathy for your class.

i m giving answer with assuming u read my above posts..

are u trolling or what?
sorry, no need answer pls ignore it will better.. cuz i am not capable enough to discuss things with u i cant reach your iq..
—————————————————————————-

Its funny that you and countless others think you’re not good compared to other classes. Seriously, did I miss the opposite day memo?

Maybe you should get better, that’s all I hear when thief gets nerfed and we’ve been nerfed hard numerous times with zero compensation. So no, not trolling. If I didn’t enjoy the playstyle of thief so much I’d gladly trade mine in for a Mesmer, at least I get globally known skills that do something.

Want to trade null field for shadow refuge? Pretty please? I dislike AoE and being CC’ed out of it while making it near impossible to stealth downed allies when they pretend their AA is going to do something. What other support skills do you dislike? I’ll probably trade ya.

Take portal, null field and time warp. Yeah. Never using this boys in combat anyway. Shadow refuge alone would be enough to compensate. Im not even sure if it is a fair deal. After all, u getting a mesmer curse on your profession, which is cursed by itself too, which would be like…double curse. U guys would become even more utility bots, than we were

At least now, u guys have place in tpvp.

@jportell… I would be very curious to know Marvin’s opinion on the state of the game’s balance in tpvp. I could see him agreeing that mes is weak at low level play, but I couldn’t imagine him saying that it isn’t viable.

crunchyraisin.6054:

@jportell… I would be very curious to know Marvin’s opinion on the state of the game’s balance in tpvp. I could see him agreeing that mes is weak at low level play, but I couldn’t imagine him saying that it isn’t viable.

If mes was truly truly viable at high level play it would see use on multiple teams (at least half which allows for other of the 8 classes.) Right now mes is only viable in the hands of people like helseth…. It used to be viable and used by many more teams but now is hardly used at all.

I hate to bring out the argument again, but tPvP team size is too small to judge class balance from it. In a RPG, at least. Even the tiniest imbalance will lead to a class or two being nearly excluded from every team. In other words, my class being absent tells me that it lacks some form of smallscale-centric power (funny because everyone whines about Mesmers in roaming/duelling, no matter how irrelevant that is for balance), but it doesn’t tell me by how much.

For all I know I could be 1% weaker. Or 80% weaker. It doesn’t matter, it reflects just the same in hyperoptimized small scale environments.

And that is why tPvP is not a good place upon which to base your balance. It doesn’t use the class in its entirety, it cannot reflect all classes and it has too unstable a balance goal in the first place.

Halfcentaur.9706:

I could go on, but even looking at a classes like the Necro – the trees make so much more sense, with traits that seem to actually build on one another – rather than just random conflicting themes spread among the final trait lines.

I agree with everything you said besides this. Deathshroud, the class mechanic comes into direct conflict with siphoning/regeneration based traits found in blood magic which is a fundamental problem with the class. Why should your class mechanic prevent you from benefitting from certain traits? And also the necro needs 4 traits to max out one weapon (staff). Those traits should be merged into 2 traits, to make room for team support based traits and to making builds less clunky.

NinjaEd.3946:

Azo.5860:

NinjaEd.3946:

Halfcentaur.9706:

/quote]
This Mesmer Q.Q is a joke these days, they see a few “pro” thieves and suddenly thief is viable and OP. Mesmer can blow up a thief and be just as slippery, I’ve watched it in videos and spectating and been a victim of it since launch while experiencing a multitude of nerfs, sorry if I have zero sympathy for your class.

i m giving answer with assuming u read my above posts..

are u trolling or what?
sorry, no need answer pls ignore it will better.. cuz i am not capable enough to discuss things with u i cant reach your iq..
—————————————————————————-

Its funny that you and countless others think you’re not good compared to other classes. Seriously, did I miss the opposite day memo?

Maybe you should get better, that’s all I hear when thief gets nerfed and we’ve been nerfed hard numerous times with zero compensation. So no, not trolling. If I didn’t enjoy the playstyle of thief so much I’d gladly trade mine in for a Mesmer, at least I get globally known skills that do something.

Want to trade null field for shadow refuge? Pretty please? I dislike AoE and being CC’ed out of it while making it near impossible to stealth downed allies when they pretend their AA is going to do something. What other support skills do you dislike? I’ll probably trade ya.

i am sorry wrong question i asked to u..
directly lamer should fit more..

or sorry dunno your age, if u are kid getting back all my words from u..
anyway.. gl hf..
gg..

OP creates thread about not comparing professions.
Thread is populated with posts about comparing professions.
Profit.

Also R.I.P. Mesmers

NinjaEd.3946:

Azo.5860:

NinjaEd.3946:

Halfcentaur.9706:

/quote]
This Mesmer Q.Q is a joke these days, they see a few “pro” thieves and suddenly thief is viable and OP. Mesmer can blow up a thief and be just as slippery, I’ve watched it in videos and spectating and been a victim of it since launch while experiencing a multitude of nerfs, sorry if I have zero sympathy for your class.

i m giving answer with assuming u read my above posts..

are u trolling or what?
sorry, no need answer pls ignore it will better.. cuz i am not capable enough to discuss things with u i cant reach your iq..
—————————————————————————-

Its funny that you and countless others think you’re not good compared to other classes. Seriously, did I miss the opposite day memo?

Maybe you should get better, that’s all I hear when thief gets nerfed and we’ve been nerfed hard numerous times with zero compensation. So no, not trolling. If I didn’t enjoy the playstyle of thief so much I’d gladly trade mine in for a Mesmer, at least I get globally known skills that do something.

Want to trade null field for shadow refuge? Pretty please? I dislike AoE and being CC’ed out of it while making it near impossible to stealth downed allies when they pretend their AA is going to do something. What other support skills do you dislike? I’ll probably trade ya.

Blimey, I’d swap null field for shadow refuge in a heartbeat – I’d even toss in up to 100 gold extra!

Funny, if I didn’t enjoy mesmer so much, I’d gladly switch to thief as a main.