If anet insists on removing the zerker meta, and the meta is changed to a different armor set. Then I demand a free 1 time stat change on all 8 of my characters, not only because it would remove the way I want to play, but also because all 8 of my characters are equiped in full exotic armor/weapons and it costs way too much gold/real money to get all of the armor again + transmute it with transmutation crystals
If they made these huge changes then they would have to set up the “pick a stat” option like they did for MF. Plus all the hate they would receive from ascended armor crafters.
Anet wanted active combat promoting keeping yourself alive and dodging the NPC attacks… well once you learn their attacks you need less defense and can push more damage.
Honestly, they just need to make the other builds stronger, not kitten pure damage dealers who know how to use the in game mechanic that Anet promoted.
People who say “there is no control” in this game are absolutely idiotic. Control is the thing that allows DPS to work as well as it does. All members of the party bring control elements in a successful speed run group, working as intended by design.
What you DON’T have is a dedicate “control player” who sits there and CC-locks bosses the whole fight to allow people to beat down bosses Bjarl fruit style.
I suspect that the desire for “pure control” comes from disgruntled pvt WvW stunlock zerg hammer warriors who are told they arent so hot in pve and cant fathom the idea of not using a different build for a different game mode.
People who say “there is no control” in this game are absolutely idiotic. Control is the thing that allows DPS to work as well as it does. All members of the party bring control elements in a successful speed run group, working as intended by design.
What you DON’T have is a dedicate “control player” who sits there and CC-locks bosses the whole fight to allow people to beat down bosses Bjarl fruit style.
I suspect that the desire for “pure control” comes from disgruntled pvt WvW stunlock zerg hammer warriors who are told they arent so hot in pve and cant fathom the idea of not using a different build for a different game mode.
I believe the “control” that is being discussed is on disabling effects, and not kiting conditions (crippled/chilled) or mitigators (blinds/weakness).
And exactly, there should be no reason why a hammer warrior should not be as useful as a GS/Axe+X warrior. Just as why a condition player should not be rendered useless when there is already a condition player in the party.
This entire thread is about balance and ensuring everyone is welcomed to play how they want, when they want.
People who say “there is no control” in this game are absolutely idiotic. Control is the thing that allows DPS to work as well as it does. All members of the party bring control elements in a successful speed run group, working as intended by design.
What you DON’T have is a dedicate “control player” who sits there and CC-locks bosses the whole fight to allow people to beat down bosses Bjarl fruit style.
I suspect that the desire for “pure control” comes from disgruntled pvt WvW stunlock zerg hammer warriors who are told they arent so hot in pve and cant fathom the idea of not using a different build for a different game mode.
Or maybe because some people love control elements and really want more of them in game. At this moment you can’t control anything more than pushing boss into place and stacking on it.
And no, I’m not WWW player. I’m GW1 and Ragnarok Online veteran, and I played them on damage/control classes. And I want more of such control in GW2, because what we have at the moment is pretty much useless and boring.
Something I see people saying a lot of around this thread is that ANet is about to nerf zerker gear. They never said that. Jon Peters stated they’re going to address the dominance of zerker/DPS builds in PvE. This does not mean they’re nerfing Zerkers, so put down your torches and pitch forks, everyone. Could they nerf it? Possibly. Could they have something else in mind? Also possible.
I’m interested in seeing what they’ll come up with.
Try fighting the COE golem without reflect or the Shoggroth (tar) in Arah p1, control is king there from saving party members from eating projectiles and getting knocked back.
In case you can’t be bothered to check, CC works through the golem’s defiant and stops him from using heavy attacks (ANet for the love of god don’t “fix” this, it makes it a legitimately interesting fight) and the tar goes back underground every 1/4 of its HP but if you chain immobilises you can continue to DPS it down.
People who say “there is no control” in this game are absolutely idiotic. Control is the thing that allows DPS to work as well as it does. All members of the party bring control elements in a successful speed run group, working as intended by design.
What you DON’T have is a dedicate “control player” who sits there and CC-locks bosses the whole fight to allow people to beat down bosses Bjarl fruit style.
I suspect that the desire for “pure control” comes from disgruntled pvt WvW stunlock zerg hammer warriors who are told they arent so hot in pve and cant fathom the idea of not using a different build for a different game mode.
I believe the “control” that is being discussed is on disabling effects, and not kiting conditions (crippled/chilled) or mitigators (blinds/weakness).
And exactly, there should be no reason why a hammer warrior should not be as useful as a GS/Axe+X warrior. Just as why a condition player should not be rendered useless when there is already a condition player in the party.
This entire thread is about balance and ensuring everyone is welcomed to play how they want, when they want.
“Play how you want” doesn’t mean that every build and every profession should be equally effective at every aspect of the game. This was even stated at some point by a dev.
“Play how you want” means that any team setup with any set of builds should be able to finish content. The ease and comfort of the completion however, is subject to which build and team setup you’re running.
The fact that someone would honestly think that any setup should be just as effective as a full zerker team truly shows the delusions some people have to deal with.
In case you can’t be bothered to check, CC works through the golem’s defiant and stops him from using heavy attacks (ANet for the love of god don’t “fix” this, it makes it a legitimately interesting fight) and the tar goes back underground every 1/4 of its HP but if you chain immobilises you can continue to DPS it down.
SHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
But e x p l o i t s aside, won’t it be more interesting if ALL bosses didn’t have Defiant and could all be CC’d reliably? It opens up more avenues for gameplay instead of how Defiant currently denies it to us.
People who say “there is no control” in this game are absolutely idiotic. Control is the thing that allows DPS to work as well as it does. All members of the party bring control elements in a successful speed run group, working as intended by design.
What you DON’T have is a dedicate “control player” who sits there and CC-locks bosses the whole fight to allow people to beat down bosses Bjarl fruit style.
I suspect that the desire for “pure control” comes from disgruntled pvt WvW stunlock zerg hammer warriors who are told they arent so hot in pve and cant fathom the idea of not using a different build for a different game mode.
I believe the “control” that is being discussed is on disabling effects, and not kiting conditions (crippled/chilled) or mitigators (blinds/weakness).
And exactly, there should be no reason why a hammer warrior should not be as useful as a GS/Axe+X warrior. Just as why a condition player should not be rendered useless when there is already a condition player in the party.
This entire thread is about balance and ensuring everyone is welcomed to play how they want, when they want.
“Play how you want” doesn’t mean that every build and every profession should be equally effective at every aspect of the game. This was even stated at some point by a dev.
“Play how you want” means that any team setup with any set of builds should be able to finish content. The ease and comfort of the completion however, is subject to which build and team setup you’re running.
The fact that someone would honestly think that any setup should be just as effective as a full zerker team truly shows the delusions some people have to deal with.
This x10000
Something I see people saying a lot of around this thread is that ANet is about to nerf zerker gear. They never said that. Jon Peters stated they’re going to address the dominance of zerker/DPS builds in PvE. This does not mean they’re nerfing Zerkers, so put down your torches and pitch forks, everyone. Could they nerf it? Possibly. Could they have something else in mind? Also possible.
I’m interested in seeing what they’ll come up with.
It’s ANet, it will be a nerf.
People who say “there is no control” in this game are absolutely idiotic. Control is the thing that allows DPS to work as well as it does. All members of the party bring control elements in a successful speed run group, working as intended by design.
What you DON’T have is a dedicate “control player” who sits there and CC-locks bosses the whole fight to allow people to beat down bosses Bjarl fruit style.
I suspect that the desire for “pure control” comes from disgruntled pvt WvW stunlock zerg hammer warriors who are told they arent so hot in pve and cant fathom the idea of not using a different build for a different game mode.
I believe the “control” that is being discussed is on disabling effects, and not kiting conditions (crippled/chilled) or mitigators (blinds/weakness).
And exactly, there should be no reason why a hammer warrior should not be as useful as a GS/Axe+X warrior. Just as why a condition player should not be rendered useless when there is already a condition player in the party.
This entire thread is about balance and ensuring everyone is welcomed to play how they want, when they want.
“Play how you want” doesn’t mean that every build and every profession should be equally effective at every aspect of the game. This was even stated at some point by a dev.
“Play how you want” means that any team setup with any set of builds should be able to finish content. The ease and comfort of the completion however, is subject to which build and team setup you’re running.
The fact that someone would honestly think that any setup should be just as effective as a full zerker team truly shows the delusions some people have to deal with.
This x10000
Yep.
The “play however I want” crowd is great. The “play however I want and it must always be just as effective as groups of people who have totally optimized their set ups in order to speed run content” crowd which seems to be the most vocal about zerker gear though, is rather daft.
Control takes numerous names and its more then just projectile deflection and stunlocks. Did it ever occurs to some of you that mass summoning is one form of control? We controlled mobs in guild wars 1 using armies of MM necros having the pets takes the hit for us and redirecting potentialy devastating effect on our bone minion soldiers. In guild wars 2 necromancer pet somewhat does more or less the same job as they provide pindown and stuns and takes hit for everyone else yet the build is regarded as inefective due to a lack of direct damage and the fact minions dies (since when minion are not suposed to die do you peoples even get a grasp of the concept of sacrificiable unit acting as distraction or do you expect the bone minions to outlive just any hit they take, you should count every hit minion takes instead of you as a blessing rater then as a curse because while the boss is busy attacking a minion hes not aiming at your head). A minion master necromancer should always be regarded as a control spec and so is the case of most class wich uses pets or summons.
Mesmer phantasm and clones, elementalist elementals, enginer turrets all of these builds are actualy control build wich people expect to work as damage yet because their premary fonction is to distract and keep the mobs busy is regarded as useless for not behing able to fill a damaging purpose.
People who say “there is no control” in this game are absolutely idiotic. Control is the thing that allows DPS to work as well as it does. All members of the party bring control elements in a successful speed run group, working as intended by design.
What you DON’T have is a dedicate “control player” who sits there and CC-locks bosses the whole fight to allow people to beat down bosses Bjarl fruit style.
I suspect that the desire for “pure control” comes from disgruntled pvt WvW stunlock zerg hammer warriors who are told they arent so hot in pve and cant fathom the idea of not using a different build for a different game mode.
I believe the “control” that is being discussed is on disabling effects, and not kiting conditions (crippled/chilled) or mitigators (blinds/weakness).
And exactly, there should be no reason why a hammer warrior should not be as useful as a GS/Axe+X warrior. Just as why a condition player should not be rendered useless when there is already a condition player in the party.
This entire thread is about balance and ensuring everyone is welcomed to play how they want, when they want.
“Play how you want” doesn’t mean that every build and every profession should be equally effective at every aspect of the game. This was even stated at some point by a dev.
“Play how you want” means that any team setup with any set of builds should be able to finish content. The ease and comfort of the completion however, is subject to which build and team setup you’re running.
The fact that someone would honestly think that any setup should be just as effective as a full zerker team truly shows the delusions some people have to deal with.
I am so glad someone brought this up.
Every group being effective does not mean everyone succeeds in the same timeframe. Balance must exist in the form of risk vs. reward.
1. A balanced team will complete in X amount of time, most of the time.
2. A full zerker team will complete in X/2 amount of time, some of the time.
This means a skilled zerker team will do twice the amount of dungeons and reap more rewards than a balanced team. A bad zerker team will probably fail and maybe take twice the time.
Zerker/Sin is already an established and viable way to play the game. We should not try to change that. What we should do is to raise the usefulness of the other stats so that others can be as effective and complete dungeons even when they are not only zerker/sin.
Wanting balance is not a delusion, wanting everyone to only want to stack in corners and do the same rotation for every encounter every day of gaming and not ending up quitting the game is.
There must be opportunity cost to the player and the only resource that all players share that is immutable is real-world time.
(edited by Shadoekin.3928)
Implement a link between stats and active defense, such that higher DPS stats means less endurance and endurance regen, while having more toughness and vitality give you more.
Also, utilities could be tied to stats, such that active defence utilities are affected in a similar way.
Either of these would make it far less desirable to run in full DPS equipment.
What’s key is to prevent to dominance of any one meta. A berserker focued group should be as good as any other balanced group.
Why? If a balanced group, which presumably means it has more survivability, is supposed to be as effective as a zerker group, why the heck would anyone wear zerker gear? The point of zerker is risk vs reward. The problem is most of this game lacks risk in fights. However, just making the bosses hit for more or more frequently is just lazy design. Better mechanics like lupi is what is needed imo, but is not what expected.
Implement a link between stats and active defense, such that higher DPS stats means less endurance and endurance regen, while having more toughness and vitality give you more.
Also, utilities could be tied to stats, such that active defence utilities are affected in a similar way.
Either of these would make it far less desirable to run in full DPS equipment.
That makes sense.
For the sake of thought, even if Anet went with something like changing the meta and making zerk less attractive, in a month people will have figured out the least defense they need while maximizing their offense, and the game will be back in the exact same place.
Basically, optimizing your offense will always be the best way to clear content. That is how all MMO’s work. Most MMO’s just cover up that fact with a tank/healer to cover the entire defense for the party, but at the end of the day still require as much DPS as possible from the DPS classes.
In GW2, everyone is the DPS class.
I am so glad someone brought this up.
Every group being effective does not mean everyone succeeds in the same timeframe. Balance must exist in the form of risk vs. reward.
1. A balanced team will complete in X amount of time, most of the time.
2. A full zerker team will complete in X/2 amount of time, some of the time.This means a skilled zerker team will do twice the amount of dungeons and reap more rewards than a balanced team. A bad zerker team will probably fail and maybe take twice the time.
Zerker/Sin is already an established and viable way to play the game. We should not try to change that. What we should do is to raise the usefulness of the other stats so that others can be as effective and complete dungeons even when they are not only zerker/sin.
Wanting balance is not a delusion, wanting everyone to only want to stack in corners and do the same rotation for every encounter every day of gaming and not ending up quitting the game is.
There must be opportunity cost to the player and the only resource that all players share that is immutable is real-world time.
You contradict yourself. In your first sentence you say that not every group setup should be able to complete content in the same time frame.
Then you go ahead and say that everything should be equally effective?
To me effectiveness of a (team) build in PvE is the efficiency and speed it can complete content in.
Other team setups can already complete dungeons. [rT] proved it by doing a no-dodge Arah p2. They succeeded with minimal effort. It just took them longer than when they would have run zerker gear.
I don’t get what you want. You want everything to be equally effective, so equally fast, but you don’t want everything to be equally fast?
If they buffed non-zerker gear to be equally strong as zerker gear, but including defensive stats, why on earth would anyone run zerker gear?
Your proposed universe where everything is equally effective at doing content as zerker gear is even more stupidly unbalanced than what we have now.
What they should do is make more bosses like Lupicus, where skill is required, and less bosses like Mai Trin, where the whole difficulty of the fight comes from invulnerable phases, which is, quite honestly, the worst kind of mechanic they have implemented so far.
To be honest, Wethospu said it the best way possible:
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
What’s key is to prevent to dominance of any one meta. A berserker focued group should be as good as any other balanced group.
Why? If a balanced group, which presumably means it has more survivability, is supposed to be as effective as a zerker group, why the heck would anyone wear zerker gear? The point of zerker is risk vs reward. The problem is most of this game lacks risk in fights. However, just making the bosses hit for more or more frequently is just lazy design. Better mechanics like lupi is what is needed imo, but is not what expected.
Risk and reward should manifest in the form of real-world time. A zerker team achieves twice as much if and when successful. But if zerkers always and are the only ones achieving success then there was never any real risk in the first place to reward.
One of the reasons why Anet got rid of the trinity is so that players no longer waste time waiting for healers or tanks. Instead, we wait for a guardian or a mesmer….or a third warrior. That is still real world time wasted.
You contradict yourself. In your first sentence you say that not every group setup should be able to complete content in the same time frame.
Then you go ahead and say that everything should be equally effective?
To me effectiveness of a (team) build in PvE is the efficiency and speed it can complete content in.
Other team setups can already complete dungeons. [rT] proved it by doing a no-dodge Arah p2. They succeeded with minimal effort. It just took them longer than when they would have run zerker gear.
I don’t get what you want. You want everything to be equally effective, so equally fast, but you don’t want everything to be equally fast?
If they buffed non-zerker gear to be equally strong as zerker gear, but including defensive stats, why on earth would anyone run zerker gear?
Your proposed universe where everything is equally effective at doing content as zerker gear is even more stupidly unbalanced than what we have now.
What they should do is make more bosses like Lupicus, where skill is required, and less bosses like Mai Trin, where the whole difficulty of the fight comes from invulnerable phases, which is, quite honestly, the worst kind of mechanic they have implemented so far.
To be honest, Wethospu said it the best way possible:
“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
There is no contradiction as being as effective does not mean being as fast. One must look at the big picture when trying to understand balance and not focus on individual dungeon runs or the like.
What this means is that a player with a certain skill level who runs 100 instances in a balanced group will hypothetically achieve 100 success at 20min per run. The same player in a full zerker group who runs 100 instances will have increased risks and achieve 50 runs at 10min and 50 runs at 30min. For that player, to reap the rewards for 100 successful runs remains at 2000min of gameplay in either a balanced or zerker group, thereby making his effectiveness the same.
However, when player skill increases, rewards would skew towards a zerker group as a more skillful player will eventually be able to achieve 75-90 runs at 10min. This same player will not be able to improve clear time in a balanced group due to the limitations of such a group.
We must not be confused and compare effectiveness across different players with different skill level and professions. And it’s all about law of big numbers. This is why if zerker groups are the only ones achieving completion, then they have mathematically less risk which would not justify the rewards.
P/S: time taken to clear would include time spent waiting for the group to form
While I agree that zerker gear should be dethroned, it should not be at the expense of what it is. It’s entire purpose is high risk/high reward and that is where is should always shine. However, there are ways to make other sets shine just as brightly but in a different light.
Let’s say a person with full Cleric gear can bring a downed player back to their feet in 4 seconds while giving them 3/4s of their maximum health. This ability would be nearly useless dungeon speedrunners as anyone reviving a teammate means 2 people aren’t contributing to dps. On the other hand, its a boon to a more balanced team as it would prevent a wipe. In the end, the balanced team’s run will be slower but more guaranteed to succeed while not affecting the speedrunners at all.
To sweeten the deal, traits could be altered to make reviving better. For instance, the Mesmer trait, Medic’s Feedback, could be changed to Emergency Medical Phantasm. It would create a phantasm to aid in reviving, thus cutting the mesmer’s revive time in half. Once the player is up, it would shatter harmlessly, however, the mesmer could choose to shatter it while reviving, like using Diversion to stop a stomp.
(edited by Crossplay.2067)
Kill the critical damage on zerker gear and you just made their dungeon run slightly faster then a balanced team at best. At worse theil take longuer then a balanced team because theil constantly die from not behing able to burn down the boss before they take a lethal blow. Physical dps doesnt need to be slain neither does zerker gear it just need to be toned down kitten to make it less obvious of a choice. Id say they should reduce ALL critical damage based item critical damage by 1% or make them all 1% so to put it on even level with condition damage support and control/pet users wich base their damage on summons wich keep mobs distracted while the party kills them.
Support and control are fine as they are right now altrought we could use getting rid of defiance or weakening it, what needs to be done is to put critical damage power build to the same level.
If zerker is to be put to the same level as condition damage/support I demand toughness/vitality to be removed from condition damage specs, or condition specs that do have it should get much less condition damage.
+1 for critical heals mentioned by someone, but only on skills other than 6.
+1 for removing defiance stacks and introducing an activated skill on bosses that breaks stun; introducing several different stunbreakers on various bosses would be cool – some being instant, some channeled, some interruptable, some not, some on 2s recharge, some on 5s, some on 10s; some bosses retaining defiance.
+1 for zerker being ‘high risk high reward’ – right now it’s ‘low/med risk high reward’, outshining everything else in PvE by a vast margin.
(edited by drkn.3429)
On the topic about heals being weak, take a look at this clip. Facetanking the hardest hitting boss in the game because of the heals that are “close to useless” and armour that reduces hits “veeeery slightly” is not my definition of a logical sentence.
awkward moment for the people who were trying to claim “berserker is brainafk, doesnt need skill and makes things easy”
Does anyone really want to see this to become the new meta?
Yes, because that’s what Living Story is so we should replicate it in dungeons as well.
I think Anet want to make balance between DPS and Support builds in a party.
May be they will create special condition for bosses ( and perhaps not only for them). That condition will weaken the party (like weakness but more powerfull). And the party will need to clean this buff. That is why support builds will be needed in party…
And may be Anet try to fix some of exploits…
I know this is hard to believe, but zerkers can cleanse conditions too just as good as “support” builds in PTV when it actually becomes needed.
Instead of nerfing zerker like every jealous, lazy PVT QQ’er in here suggest, maybe ANet should focus on fixing all the dungeon exploits. Every instance now has single guys selling last boss slots, and they didn’t get there just by standing on rocks either.
—
To be honest, Wethospu said it the best way possible:“People wanting content where Berserker sucks should remember that it needs be so hard that they will cry, not just a river, but a huge ocean.” – Wethospu
I guess it is time to open this up a bit.
People are always going to favor most damaging specs because they cut the run time and give the best profits. Literally only way to stop this is to make content too hard to complete as a dps spec. This either means a gearcheck or a very hard difficulty.
And if they create a very hard difficulty then normal people (most of the guys posting here) won’t be able to complete it, regardless of their spec. And guess what, that means groups really want you to be on par with the meta and stuff actually gets vicious.
I think Anet want to make balance between DPS and Support builds in a party.
May be they will create special condition for bosses ( and perhaps not only for them). That condition will weaken the party (like weakness but more powerfull). And the party will need to clean this buff. That is why support builds will be needed in party…
And may be Anet try to fix some of exploits…
This will just make guardians even more invaluable since they can offer great support and damage.
I know this is hard to believe, but zerkers can cleanse conditions too just as good as “support” builds in PTV when it actually becomes needed.
No, i believe, coz im zerk guardian and know it. But i know that guardian can clean a lot of condition by one bottom but he cant spam this bottons…
Perhaps this condition will be intensely stack and need more cleaning abylites (and more often and think how many stack you need clean at one time). Or this condition will make dot damage for all battle/
(edited by KantidMM.6291)
I know this is hard to believe, but zerkers can cleanse conditions too just as good as “support” builds in PTV when it actually becomes needed.
No, i believe, coz im zerk guardian and know it. But i know that guardian can clean a lot of condition by one bottom but he cant spam this bottons…
Perhaps this condition will be intensely stack and need more cleaning abylites (and more often and think how many stack you need clean at one time). Or this condition will make dot damage for all battle/
As a Guardian you have a lot ways to cleanse conditions group wide.
You have absolute resolution at 20 virtues which almost every zeker meta build uses (all the way in the virtues traitline is done pretty much for support; the 25 one is damage but it doesn’t deserve such a investment by its own), CD traited purging flames (also common in the meta), you’ve a light symbols for any party member to use whirls over, … if it were needed, you could even summon a Bow of Truth.
Rly i dont want to lose my time and reforge my ascended armor =D. But if i just a little change my trait/utilities and take to party a player with support build i would be happy…
Or plz Anet dont change any thing… Just fix exploits =D.
… if it were needed, you could even summon a Bow of Truth.
I figured out how to make a bow more usefull =D. But bow clean only one target.
And in zerk party u will only need to spread right your cd’s and whirlz in light fields. if you do it wrong group will fight strongly weakened. And cd PoF and VoR 35(28) and ~45 sec… they are strong but not so often…
(edited by KantidMM.6291)
People are always going to favor most damaging specs because they cut the run time and give the best profits. Literally only way to stop this is to make content too hard to complete as a dps spec. This either means a gearcheck or a very hard difficulty.
And if they create a very hard difficulty then normal people (most of the guys posting here) won’t be able to complete it, regardless of their spec. And guess what, that means groups really want you to be on par with the meta and stuff actually gets vicious.
Yes, the run time vis-a-vis profit argument is the same rationale behind the complaint about running 41-50 fractals as compared to COF1/2, AC1/3, SE1/3, etc. Why would anyone do content or buy gear which actually goes against what we are trying to achieve (ie. farm gold/tokens/crafting material)?
But the point is not that damaging specs or gear is overpowered, but everything else is pretty much useless. Whenever groups form with random players beyond our control, we will almost always hope for a warrior in zerker gear using at least a GS, because even if he has only 700 AP and running 4 signets, you can be sure he will at least 100b whenever it is up.
The players who give the aegis/block at the right time, blind at the right time, reflect at the right time are pretty much the ones who matter more. The normals need to be the ones in dps gear because you can’t trust them to do anything else but dps.
And the easiest way for Anet to make mobs stronger against pure dpsers would be to increase their hp or more access to protection/retaliation buffs. A zerker group is only in trouble when all their mitigating skills are on cooldown. It is this all or nothing gameplay which makes the DPS meta so successful to the point that it is actually riskier to run anything else.
No matter how much toughness, vitality, or healing anyone has, once you no longer have defenses, the entire team is in trouble if mobs are still alive.
… if it were needed, you could even summon a Bow of Truth.
I figured out how to make a bow more usefull =D. But bow clean only one target.
And in zerk party u will only need to spread right your cd’s and whirlz in light fields. if you do it wrong group will fight strongly weakened. And cd PoF and VoR 35(28) and ~45 sec… they strong but not so often…
It’s single target, yes, but it’s every 5 seconds.; it’s not going to save the day but it might help.
You also have RoJ and Signet of Resolve if needed to regularly clean yourself and ensure bow cleanses other players..
The point is, how often is this condition being renewed? If VoR, traited purging flames, whirls (it’s not only you, warrior has a low CD whirl on main hand axe, for example), Shake it Off from warriors, Mantra of Resolve from Mesmer … if all of this is not enough, I don’t expect any “support” build to handle it ever.
The only issue is that moving pve meta from zerk to some other kind of gear isnt balance at all.
Its just a way to make easyer an easy content like istances in way to make 2 finger people able to stand alive without dodge and stop they to complain to not find place in party because unable to stand alive in zerk.
A great balance, gg xD
That’s not how balance has to be, though.
What if zerker setups were simply nerfed to no longer provide such a big advantage? Indirectly, too. By making it so that they cannot avoid a certain portion of damage, damage which more defensive setups could easily soak, but a berserker team will have to stop attacking and rezz each other instead?(Intentionally exaggerated)
Thing is, that’d make PvE more difficult. Defensive setups would largely be where they are now, we only nerfed the stuff which has the ezmode right now (and I play that, and yes, it’s far too easy).
cut.
Yeah man,
replacing dodge with ptv stat will make gw2 a lot skilled.
Great idea bro xD
Just throwing this in here again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2VhmwLwvrM
Whoever argues against the “berserker meta”, is that what you want the game to become? Add some random dodges in and you are invicible, that would make you able to play content blind with one hand, easily. Is that what you want as new meta in gw2, instead of actually a bit of positioning, dodging and supporting?
Just throwing this in here again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2VhmwLwvrM
Whoever argues against the “berserker meta”, is that what you want the game to become? Add some random dodges in and you are invicible, that would make you able to play content blind with one hand, easily. Is that what you want as new meta in gw2, instead of actually a bit of positioning, dodging and supporting?
+1 – if that’s what the game ends up turning into I think i’d rather give it up.
Just throwing this in here again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2VhmwLwvrM
Whoever argues against the “berserker meta”, is that what you want the game to become? Add some random dodges in and you are invicible, that would make you able to play content blind with one hand, easily. Is that what you want as new meta in gw2, instead of actually a bit of positioning, dodging and supporting?
I get the impression that a lot of the people moaning about zerker don’t really care about what becomes of the meta/game after a zerk nerf, they simply want those people doing well in zerk to get the shaft.
So as long as people using zerk to clear stuff faster then them get hit with the nerf bat, they will be happy as pigs in muck.
We are trying to take steps to address some of the dominance of Berserker/DPS players. More info next week, I think.
Jon
How is nerfing zerkers or changing anything about a stat considered fair? Or setting up fights that specifically make it more difficult for a character in full zerker gear to survive? I thought we could play how we want? Does making a party of 5 berserker geared players break that rule somehow?
This isn’t going to change anything, good players will adapt and still bring the best damage possible to shorten the fight. Bad players will call foul and the standards will get lowered once again.
(edited by MastaNeenja.1537)
repost-
As an Arah berserker warrior soloer, I would honestly love to be able to solo some dungeons with a face tank build that doesnt need to dodge. I don’t care if it takes 10times longer than zerkers, I just want the ability to so I can change up my playstyle.
The good ole invinci tank meta.
Just throwing this in here again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2VhmwLwvrM
Whoever argues against the “berserker meta”, is that what you want the game to become? Add some random dodges in and you are invicible, that would make you able to play content blind with one hand, easily. Is that what you want as new meta in gw2, instead of actually a bit of positioning, dodging and supporting?
As if that video even demostrate something. That sustain is due to the class, rather than the gear. Healing signet doesn’t even scale that well with healing power.
And any attack that should have been dodged has been blocked instead. Again, due to the defensive abilities of the classes (hi, Riposte), rather that due of the gear itself. Also dealing a good amount of damage by reflection that wouldn’t be usually done by a tanky gear user, thus speeding up the fight.
It was made up in this way just to make their point.
But the rest of the game, and the classes, don’t work like that.
why is this thread still active. its not “constructive” or “positive” enough for my tastes.
I’m calling it right now, the new meta is rabid engie for stacking 150 stacks of bleed on every boss with high armor.
Every pug speedclear group will just be “LF 4 more rabid engies, heavy = kick”.
Just throwing this in here again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2VhmwLwvrM
Whoever argues against the “berserker meta”, is that what you want the game to become? Add some random dodges in and you are invicible, that would make you able to play content blind with one hand, easily. Is that what you want as new meta in gw2, instead of actually a bit of positioning, dodging and supporting?
As if that video even demostrate something. That sustain is due to the class, rather than the gear. Healing signet doesn’t even scale that well with healing power.
And any attack that should have been dodged has been blocked instead. Again, due to the defensive abilities of the classes (hi, Riposte), rather that due of the gear itself. Also dealing a good amount of damage by reflection that wouldn’t be usually done by a tanky gear user, thus speeding up the fight.It was made up in this way just to make their point.
But the rest of the game, and the classes, don’t work like that.U should watch a video before u write a comment. U failed.
I’m not sure what the video is supposed to show really, Is this supposed to be faster than running with the current meta group?
No it shows u that Zerker gear makes nothing easier, only faster if play good enough. If u are tanky u can facetank nearly everything. U don´t have to know what bosses do, u don´t have to use skill like retreat/blinds/blocks or reflexion u don´t have to dogde
U can faceroll everything. Without using your brain and playing with 1 hand.
It shows u that all arguments “zerker makes pve easier” are foolish. U can ignore dungeon mechanics by just being tanky enough.
(edited by Norjena.5172)
I’m calling it right now, the new meta is rabid engie for stacking 150 stacks of bleed on every boss with high armor.
Every pug speedclear group will just be “LF 4 more rabid engies, heavy = kick”.
If zerker groups still cleared dungeons just as fast as what we have now, I guess it doesn’t make any difference to us. Condi groups being able to speed clear on their terms does not affect us in any way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality
“Crab mentality, sometimes referred to as crabs in the bucket, is a phrase that describes a way of thinking best described by the phrase “if I can’t have it, neither can you.” The metaphor refers to a pot of crabs. Individually, the crabs could easily escape from the pot, but instead, they grab at each other in a useless “king of the hill” competition which prevents any from escaping and ensures their collective demise.12 The analogy in human behavior is that members of a group will attempt to “pull down” (negate or diminish the importance of) any member who achieves success beyond the others, out of envy,3 conspiracy or competitive feelings."
Copied from wikipedia. I’m not going to bother writing anything else, as this article pretty much reflects the mentality of everyone wanting zerk/sin gear nerfed so their brainless/subpar/playhowiwant playstyles aren’t worse than no defense, max offense builds.
#2
Not affiliated with ArenaNet or NCSOFT. No support is provided.
All assets, page layout, visual style belong to ArenaNet and are used solely to replicate the original design and preserve the original look and feel.
Contact /u/e-scrape-artist on reddit if you encounter a bug.
