Guild Wars 2

Grimreaper.5370:

tom.7468:

What bothers me most about this nerf is that theif is the squishiest class with the worst healing and condition cleanses because they have active defense you are suppose to you use the theif toolbox as the devs like to call it to avoid getting hit in the first place.
Now they nerf this and sword without compensation i cant see how that is balanced.

ACTUALLY! When I was looking into the GW2 wiki posts on how that sword #3 is being revamped it seems like you will be able to evade much more often now, with the expense of 1 extra initiative cost. Sounds like a buff to me! It wont turn over to lancerous strike unless you hit but hey that means more evasion too!

Might as well call it Dodge For Initiative! and pair it with Roll For Initiative!

Roll outta the way, dodge outta the way, woooo~

BurrTheKing.8571:

Currently if you drop BP on Warrior/Engi/Ranger/Guardian/Necro there’s almost nothing they can do about it.

There’s absolutely nothing a Warrior/Engi/Necro can do, but Ranger/Guard can easily clear the blind with their 1 skill and hit their interrupt, as long as they pay attention. 3/8 safe stomp for half a standard initaitive bar is a much different argument than 5/8ths.

roamzero.9486:

The SB Choking Gas nerf is pretty ridiculous too, considering Mesmers can summon phantasms and clones without breaking stealth.

The thing that breaks stealth with SB choking gas is that it will now register a damaging hit from the player. They might make it do 1 damage, but it’s a hit if an enemy is within the AoE. A mesmer summoning does not hit, and the illusions doing damage is not the player doing damage. You’re confusing two very different things.

sirrealist.1360:

roamzero.9486:

The SB Choking Gas nerf is pretty ridiculous too, considering Mesmers can summon phantasms and clones without breaking stealth.

The thing that breaks stealth with SB choking gas is that it will now register a damaging hit from the player. They might make it do 1 damage, but it’s a hit if an enemy is within the AoE. A mesmer summoning does not hit, and the illusions doing damage is not the player doing damage. You’re confusing two very different things.

Okay, so all AoE fields should proc retaliation from your line of thinking, correct? Because that’s exactly what this move will be doing from now on.

RyuDragnier.9476:

sirrealist.1360:

roamzero.9486:

The SB Choking Gas nerf is pretty ridiculous too, considering Mesmers can summon phantasms and clones without breaking stealth.

The thing that breaks stealth with SB choking gas is that it will now register a damaging hit from the player. They might make it do 1 damage, but it’s a hit if an enemy is within the AoE. A mesmer summoning does not hit, and the illusions doing damage is not the player doing damage. You’re confusing two very different things.

Okay, so all AoE fields should proc retaliation from your line of thinking, correct? Because that’s exactly what this move will be doing from now on.

Well, I mean, Caltrops counts as a damaging AoE field. It gets affected by Retal, reveals if the Thief is in stealth, and doesn’t stack with Caltrops on dodge (shhhhh, this isn’t relevant).

But on the bright side, it does count towards the healing off of Signet of Malice, allowing you to heal tons of small numbers like a Necromancer with points in Blood Magic… not that you need to know that considering I’m sure you’ve used Bladestorm to get a full heal in a pack of trash.

So yeah, Choking Gas might get hit by Retal and reveal you, but it can also heal you slightly in certain builds.

Esplen.3940:

RyuDragnier.9476:

sirrealist.1360:

roamzero.9486:

The SB Choking Gas nerf is pretty ridiculous too, considering Mesmers can summon phantasms and clones without breaking stealth.

The thing that breaks stealth with SB choking gas is that it will now register a damaging hit from the player. They might make it do 1 damage, but it’s a hit if an enemy is within the AoE. A mesmer summoning does not hit, and the illusions doing damage is not the player doing damage. You’re confusing two very different things.

Okay, so all AoE fields should proc retaliation from your line of thinking, correct? Because that’s exactly what this move will be doing from now on.

Well, I mean, Caltrops counts as a damaging AoE field. It gets affected by Retal, reveals if the Thief is in stealth, and doesn’t stack with Caltrops on dodge (shhhhh, this isn’t relevant).

But on the bright side, it does count towards the healing off of Signet of Malice, allowing you to heal tons of small numbers like a Necromancer with points in Blood Magic… not that you need to know that considering I’m sure you’ve used Bladestorm to get a full heal in a pack of trash.

So yeah, Choking Gas might get hit by Retal and reveal you, but it can also heal you slightly in certain builds.

What in the name of the Khan-Ur made them think Choking Gas was a problem to begin with? Was it sPvP, because there were people who were afraid of standing in a capture point due to the poison field while a thief was in stealth? Was it WvW where most people shrugged it off because it was easily cleansed due to the big groups and it was really all a thief could use outside of caltrops to do something without getting revealed? Or was it PvE where the AI just stands in it, and when in stealth the enemies just reset?

Maybe one of the Warriors developers was getting trolled by a Condi thief spamming Stealth + SB CG?

RyuDragnier.9476:

sirrealist.1360:

roamzero.9486:

The SB Choking Gas nerf is pretty ridiculous too, considering Mesmers can summon phantasms and clones without breaking stealth.

The thing that breaks stealth with SB choking gas is that it will now register a damaging hit from the player. They might make it do 1 damage, but it’s a hit if an enemy is within the AoE. A mesmer summoning does not hit, and the illusions doing damage is not the player doing damage. You’re confusing two very different things.

Okay, so all AoE fields should proc retaliation from your line of thinking, correct? Because that’s exactly what this move will be doing from now on.

No, unless the AoE field has a direct damage component (like a hit). Correct me if I’m wrong here, but I don’t think non-direct damage (like conditions) proc retal.

Esplen.3940:

RyuDragnier.9476:

sirrealist.1360:

roamzero.9486:

The SB Choking Gas nerf is pretty ridiculous too, considering Mesmers can summon phantasms and clones without breaking stealth.

The thing that breaks stealth with SB choking gas is that it will now register a damaging hit from the player. They might make it do 1 damage, but it’s a hit if an enemy is within the AoE. A mesmer summoning does not hit, and the illusions doing damage is not the player doing damage. You’re confusing two very different things.

Okay, so all AoE fields should proc retaliation from your line of thinking, correct? Because that’s exactly what this move will be doing from now on.

Well, I mean, Caltrops counts as a damaging AoE field. It gets affected by Retal, reveals if the Thief is in stealth, and doesn’t stack with Caltrops on dodge (shhhhh, this isn’t relevant).

But on the bright side, it does count towards the healing off of Signet of Malice, allowing you to heal tons of small numbers like a Necromancer with points in Blood Magic… not that you need to know that considering I’m sure you’ve used Bladestorm to get a full heal in a pack of trash.

So yeah, Choking Gas might get hit by Retal and reveal you, but it can also heal you slightly in certain builds.

Are you sure Caltrops counts as a damaging AoE field? Caltrops doesn’t do direct damage, it does indirect through the bleed condition. This is straight from the wiki on stealth:
“Hitting a foe with an attack breaks stealth; if the attack missed, was blocked, or was evaded, they will not break stealth. Abilities that do not deal direct damage (like Choking Gas, Caltrops, or the Traps which do not deal direct damage) will not break stealth, even though they apply damaging conditions.”

With Chocking gas, they are adding a direct damage component, so it WILL break stealth, unlike Caltrops.

Also, I don’t think your comment about Caltrops not stacking with caltrops from dodge (Uncatchable) is correct. I believe the effects from both do “stack”.

sirrealist.1360:

RyuDragnier.9476:

sirrealist.1360:

roamzero.9486:

The SB Choking Gas nerf is pretty ridiculous too, considering Mesmers can summon phantasms and clones without breaking stealth.

The thing that breaks stealth with SB choking gas is that it will now register a damaging hit from the player. They might make it do 1 damage, but it’s a hit if an enemy is within the AoE. A mesmer summoning does not hit, and the illusions doing damage is not the player doing damage. You’re confusing two very different things.

Okay, so all AoE fields should proc retaliation from your line of thinking, correct? Because that’s exactly what this move will be doing from now on.

No, unless the AoE field has a direct damage component (like a hit). Correct me if I’m wrong here, but I don’t think non-direct damage (like conditions) proc retal.

They do not. So what makes this skill the highest priority for this nerf, that will give a move that has no direct damage suddenly get direct damage? What is the point of it? If they think it’s a buff, unless it hits for AT LEAST for the equivalent of a Detonated Clusterbomb with every tick that adds poison, this will be anything but a buff.

RyuDragnier.9476:

sirrealist.1360:

RyuDragnier.9476:

sirrealist.1360:

roamzero.9486:

The SB Choking Gas nerf is pretty ridiculous too, considering Mesmers can summon phantasms and clones without breaking stealth.

The thing that breaks stealth with SB choking gas is that it will now register a damaging hit from the player. They might make it do 1 damage, but it’s a hit if an enemy is within the AoE. A mesmer summoning does not hit, and the illusions doing damage is not the player doing damage. You’re confusing two very different things.

Okay, so all AoE fields should proc retaliation from your line of thinking, correct? Because that’s exactly what this move will be doing from now on.

No, unless the AoE field has a direct damage component (like a hit). Correct me if I’m wrong here, but I don’t think non-direct damage (like conditions) proc retal.

They do not. So what makes this skill the highest priority for this nerf, that will give a move that has no direct damage suddenly get direct damage? What is the point of it? If they think it’s a buff, unless it hits for AT LEAST for the equivalent of a Detonated Clusterbomb with every tick that adds poison, this will be anything but a buff.

I do not believe it is intended as a buff. They want to make it so that using CG while in stealth causes stealth to break. The point of adding the direct damage component is to trigger this desired change. All they have to do is make it hit for any amount to achieve this. Only time will tell if they’ll make it hit for some inconsequential amount or not.

Disclosure: What follows is extrapolated theory.
If all of this is true, then you can still use CG from stealth and not break it, you just have to NOT hit an enemy (i.e., no direct damage). You could, for example, estimate the path of travel of an enemy, estimate the radius of the AoE field, and then target the ground so that the enemy is right outside the AoE when it lands and then runs into it. Theoretically, this would not “hit” the enemy and so you would stay in stealth, but would still subject them to the poison field, until they left it. I’m not saying this is easy, usable or anything else, just pointing out how the whole “hit breaks stealth” mechanic works and how you can try to get around it. Clearly, this wouldn’t work for throwing poison fields into zergs from the flanks while remaining in stealth, which I’m guessing is the “issue” they are seeking to address.

sirrealist.1360:

Are you sure Caltrops counts as a damaging AoE field? Caltrops doesn’t do direct damage, it does indirect through the bleed condition. This is straight from the wiki on stealth:
“Hitting a foe with an attack breaks stealth; if the attack missed, was blocked, or was evaded, they will not break stealth. Abilities that do not deal direct damage (like Choking Gas, Caltrops, or the Traps which do not deal direct damage) will not break stealth, even though they apply damaging conditions.”

With Chocking gas, they are adding a direct damage component, so it WILL break stealth, unlike Caltrops.

Also, I don’t think your comment about Caltrops not stacking with caltrops from dodge (Uncatchable) is correct. I believe the effects from both do “stack”.

I could be wrong, my firsthand experience is very old.

Caltrops don’t break stealth.

Someone on the PvP forums said this, and I thought it seemed legit. It was along the lines of, " blackpowder got nerfed because Anet got kittened off by the number of thieves soloing Arah p1".

Like the amount of Warriors soloing Arah P1 and 2?

Esplen.3940:

Like the amount of Warriors soloing Arah P1 and 2?

Except that thieves aren’t warriors, so that totally isn’t okay.

DesertRose.2031:

shinigamith.7120:

Exactly what i said in my previous post. The problem is that it’s a pvp nerf that touch pve.

Being invulnerable against pretty much any non-boss mob is very OP. The PvE version of Thief Pistol #5 should had been nerfed long ago.

I’m ok with as long as you give us something in return. Thief don’t have very high damages, are the squishiest class of the game, are bad support in pve. BP here was op but since all the rest is bad that was balenced.

Mayama.1854:

shinigamith.7120:

-This nerf don’t make the build less spammy

-The only few builds that works on thieves are spammy builds. We searched for anything else but nobody found because there is nothing else.

Than make them less spammy, honestly you could reduce the dodge, stealth or blind spam by 30% and those builds would work exactly the same in PvP. The only difference would be that you could not spam those skills anymore. You would have to actually counterplay enemies and use those defense skills at the right moment. Those spam builds carry players to a higher ranking as they should be because the spam closes holes in their defense skills. For example I play alot engineer pvp and if I fight a good player that doesnt track enemy cooldowns its usually a thief. You wont find it on any other professions, even good thieves usually have no clue of all the cooldown timers because they automatically dodge, dodge, dodge or blind, blind, blind no matter what the enemy does. Another thing that hints at that problem is that you usually only find whine threads about condi necros and engis in the thief forum. The reason is because those builds can spam their damage even more than the thief can spam his defense so they eventually down in damage.

Well but if you remove this hability to spam the thief have nothing at all. This is the only thing that make it usefull. I’m ok with you that would be great if on my skillbar i can use all my skills and not choose 1 because it is simply the more initiative-efficient one. But that’s not the case.

Esplen.3940:

RyuDragnier.9476:

sirrealist.1360:

roamzero.9486:

The SB Choking Gas nerf is pretty ridiculous too, considering Mesmers can summon phantasms and clones without breaking stealth.

The thing that breaks stealth with SB choking gas is that it will now register a damaging hit from the player. They might make it do 1 damage, but it’s a hit if an enemy is within the AoE. A mesmer summoning does not hit, and the illusions doing damage is not the player doing damage. You’re confusing two very different things.

Okay, so all AoE fields should proc retaliation from your line of thinking, correct? Because that’s exactly what this move will be doing from now on.

Well, I mean, Caltrops counts as a damaging AoE field. It gets affected by Retal, reveals if the Thief is in stealth, and doesn’t stack with Caltrops on dodge (shhhhh, this isn’t relevant).

But on the bright side, it does count towards the healing off of Signet of Malice, allowing you to heal tons of small numbers like a Necromancer with points in Blood Magic… not that you need to know that considering I’m sure you’ve used Bladestorm to get a full heal in a pack of trash.

So yeah, Choking Gas might get hit by Retal and reveal you, but it can also heal you slightly in certain builds.

Correct me if i’m wrong but it already proc the signet of malice so you are offering a nerf that make this skill useless (since the only spec that uses it is a stealth spec) for nothing