Guild Wars 2

Quick problem sketch: Last refuge is a minor SA trait (for spending 1 trait point) and when using this trait line it is thus impossible to not take. The skills puts you in stealth as well as blinding opponents when at 25% hp. However, since it is a health based proc it will apply stealth without notice, and thus most of the times in stead of giving you the protection it was designed to give, it gives you a 4 sec of reveal at 25%hp. This means a dead thief. This issue has been around since launch and has been discussen many times.

7 months ago there was a reply of the Devs saying that they were looking into fixing it
(link: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/PvX-Thief-Last-Refuge/first)

After seeing the skill bar for the thief profession updates nothing was mentioned about last refuge? Can one of the devs tell me if any progress has been made in those 7 months?

I realize that this isn’t teh first tread discussing this, but i want to reopen the dialogue in order to try and get this fixed. In that post there was a mention that they would like community input on the matter (replacement suggestions) which i would like to see in this tread.

My suggestion:
Last feature pack there was the introduction of traits triggering on reveal. This was a very original way of implementing new traits for the thief. I sugegst doing somethign similar for this trait as it should be stealth bound (in the SA traitline)

something in the line of: Grant 5s of protection when under 25% hp and getting teh revealed debuff

Implications:
when the thief is low he has 2 options. (1) Go into stealth and leave the fight (bringing a lot of stealth hate) or (2) continue the fight to try and get a down (risky). If reveal debuff applies protection on low health the thief can then consider to do 1 more stealth attack, and try to get the kill, while the trait allows him to be a bit more defensive in this case. This will allow the thief to stay in the fight a bit longer, and take that risk in stead off stealthing up and running away.

Many thanks for the consideration!

Agreed. Easy fix. Thieves happy. Always die thanks to this trait. Even when you try to predict it, then it doesn’t go off.

Protection would be nice.

Invul would be better.

if what we saw two weeks ago on the thief preview is all we’re getting, we’re stuck with that trait for another six months, minimum :/

If someone who had played the Beta test still remember how this trait used to work, they will tell you that this trait has evolved many time in the past.
First, Last Refuge used to have Shadow Refuge instead of Blinding Powder. I guess it was OP and then they changed it to Blinding Powder.
Second, at that time Blinding Powder did not interrupt your action. So if you are Auto Attack in the middle of a fight and then using BP you will get a free Revealed. This lead to an upgrade to BP by interrupt your action and then stealth you afterwards. And this led to a fatal mistake with Last Refuge because LR also using BP therefore LR will interrupt your action. And the scenario went like this “seeing your HP low, press Healing skill and then someone hits you which then triggers LR and then it interrupts your Healing skill put it on 5sec CD” GG Anet….
the story go on…

Siva Mira.3546:

If someone who had played the Beta test still remember how this trait used to work, they will tell you that this trait has evolved many time in the past.
First, Last Refuge used to have Shadow Refuge instead of Blinding Powder. I guess it was OP and then they changed it to Blinding Powder.
Second, at that time Blinding Powder did not interrupt your action. So if you are Auto Attack in the middle of a fight and then using BP you will get a free Revealed. This lead to an upgrade to BP by interrupt your action and then stealth you afterwards. And this led to a fatal mistake with Last Refuge because LR also using BP therefore LR will interrupt your action. And the scenario went like this “seeing your HP low, press Healing skill and then someone hits you which then triggers LR and then it interrupts your Healing skill put it on 5sec CD” GG Anet….
the story go on…

well right now if it procs halfway through a channel you’ll get a free revealed.

Delete last refuge, replace it with Assassin’s Equilibrium.

alchemyst.2165:

Delete last refuge, replace it with Assassin’s Equilibrium.

that sad moment when your GM trait is so bad it wouldn’t be broken to have it as an adept minor.

Bump to this. Is a quality of life change that I’ve been waiting for a long while now, similar to the necromancer Minor that used to summon minions.

BrunoBRS.5178:

alchemyst.2165:

Delete last refuge, replace it with Assassin’s Equilibrium.

that sad moment when your GM trait is so bad it wouldn’t be broken to have it as an adept minor.

What? You crazy, AE be too stronk, it needs to be 1 tier higher. Spammable stability needs nerfing!

Seriously though, who designed this trait, and who honestly thought it needed to be put in the acrobatics trait line?

I think it should be a mini Shadow Refuge.
Compare it to Uncatchable (Leave behind caltrops when you dodge.) The caltrops you leave behind when dodging are in a much smaller radius, and last only 2 or 3 seconds, compared to the utility skill. Maybe Last Refuge can just pop a Shadow Refuge that has a smaller radius, lasts 2 seconds, and heals.

It wouldn’t solve the problem of instant Revealed if you happen to be attacking when it triggers, but it can supply a heal of some sort.

change refuge to cheat death: attack that would otherwise kill you brings you to 10% HP, 1?? min ICD…. baam suddenly usefull trait.

The following suggestion takes into account that in a previous post about last refuge, Anet clearly stated they wanted the skill to remain “Stealth based”.

As far as I recall (and it’s been a while, so someone please correct me if I’m wrong), mesmers have access to an ability called “Cloak” (I believe its on desperate decoy?). Cloak functions like stealth, except that you become invisible even if you have the revealed debuff.

Assuming all that is true, truly fixing Last Refuge is so stupidly simple I can’t believe it hasn’t been done yet. Have Last Refuge trigger “Cloak” instead of “Stealth”. Make sure that “Cloak” does not give access to stealth attacks or any of SA’s “In stealth” or “On stealth” triggers.

Viola, you’ve fixed Last refuge. Let’s run through a couple of scenarios and check.

What if LR triggers mid CnD? You get cloak, lose it when CnD connects, and gain stealth -The trait didn’t do much for you, but it didn’t kitten you over with revealed for no reason.

What if LR triggers mid HS? You get cloak, lose in when your HS connects, But do not gain revealed – The trait didn’t do much for you, but it didn’t kitten you over with revealed for no reason.

Not attacking at all and LR triggers? Great, you’ve got 3 seconds of Cloak to do with as you please.

Of course there are a few minor things to consider.

Cloak wouldn’t stack with stealth (it’s a different, weaker effect after all). This will likely kitten a few thieves off, but the skill is still massively better as Cloak then it is as Stealth. Additionally, you’d probably want to add a tiny buff to LR (500Hp heal or drop a condition or gain swiftness, something) considering Cloak won’t give access to stealth attacks or SA traits. You’d also have to figure out how to visually differentiate Cloak from stealth for the thief player. Minor inconveniences at best.

There you go, a Last Refuge that works. It won’t screw thieves over by gifting them with revealed right when they need stealth the most. It won’t force thieves to alter their playstyle to avoid getting revealed. It just works as intended.

^ I’ve suggested cloning that functionality onto Last Refuge for months.

Cynz.9437:

change refuge to cheat death: attack that would otherwise kill you brings you to 10% HP, 1?? min ICD…. baam suddenly usefull trait.

also stupidly OP for an adept minor.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Cynz.9437:

change refuge to cheat death: attack that would otherwise kill you brings you to 10% HP, 1?? min ICD…. baam suddenly usefull trait.

also stupidly OP for an adept minor.

not really considering that 10% HP is less than 1k HP on thief + ICD would make sure you don’t get it too often