Guild Wars 2

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I wouldn’t complain about Warriors if they had meaningful weaknesses. I know they’re not THE best in almost any category (other than having to do the least actively to stay alive), but they’re pretty good in all of them, #4 (out of at worst.

I’d be happy if ANet made their intended weaknesses actual weaknesses and made their intended strengths a bit stronger. For example, their cleansing ability (an intended weakness) should not be on-par with Necros (their intended strength).

We used to have that but people whined about warriors strengths being to strong (people would get insta gibbed) and they nerfed our damage, and nerfed our damage and nerfed our damage until our DPS was is reasonable range but by then our weaknesses were too strong and we couldn’t stay alive long enough to kill anybody. So Anet decided to buff our defenses but instead of doing it incrementally they threw it all in at once. Then people complained that we can’t be killed and that we still hit too hard so the nerfed our damage and nerfed our damage and nerfed our healing. People are still crying and they will keep crying until warriors are back were they belong, standing beside rangers as free kills.

Julie Yann.5379:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I wouldn’t complain about Warriors if they had meaningful weaknesses. I know they’re not THE best in almost any category (other than having to do the least actively to stay alive), but they’re pretty good in all of them, #4 (out of at worst.

I’d be happy if ANet made their intended weaknesses actual weaknesses and made their intended strengths a bit stronger. For example, their cleansing ability (an intended weakness) should not be on-par with Necros (their intended strength).

We used to have that but people whined about warriors strengths being to strong (people would get insta gibbed) and they nerfed our damage, and nerfed our damage and nerfed our damage until our DPS was is reasonable range but by then our weaknesses were too strong and we couldn’t stay alive long enough to kill anybody. So Anet decided to buff our defenses but instead of doing it incrementally they threw it all in at once. Then people complained that we can’t be killed and that we still hit too hard so the nerfed our damage and nerfed our damage and nerfed our healing. People are still crying and they will keep crying until warriors are back were they belong, standing beside rangers as free kills.

This basically^

People want this game to play itself and for them to be successful with minimal effort.
Warriors aren’t hard to fight against, if you actually try to learn the game and do well.

Julie Yann.5379:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I wouldn’t complain about Warriors if they had meaningful weaknesses. I know they’re not THE best in almost any category (other than having to do the least actively to stay alive), but they’re pretty good in all of them, #4 (out of at worst.

I’d be happy if ANet made their intended weaknesses actual weaknesses and made their intended strengths a bit stronger. For example, their cleansing ability (an intended weakness) should not be on-par with Necros (their intended strength).

We used to have that but people whined about warriors strengths being to strong (people would get insta gibbed) and they nerfed our damage, and nerfed our damage and nerfed our damage until our DPS was is reasonable range but by then our weaknesses were too strong and we couldn’t stay alive long enough to kill anybody. So Anet decided to buff our defenses but instead of doing it incrementally they threw it all in at once. Then people complained that we can’t be killed and that we still hit too hard so the nerfed our damage and nerfed our damage and nerfed our healing. People are still crying and they will keep crying until warriors are back were they belong, standing beside rangers as free kills.

You assume I was one of them complaining about Warrior damage output. I’ve never had issues with their damage or control options (though Pin Down and Skull Crack did need the increased cast times and readability). Those are what Warriors are supposed to be strong at.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I wouldn’t complain about Warriors if they had meaningful weaknesses. I know they’re not THE best in almost any category (other than having to do the least actively to stay alive), but they’re pretty good in all of them, #4 (out of at worst.

I’d be happy if ANet made their intended weaknesses actual weaknesses and made their intended strengths a bit stronger. For example, their cleansing ability (an intended weakness) should not be on-par with Necros (their intended strength).

Yeah I always thought it was weird how they introduced cleansing ire without giving it an ICD outside of the burst cool down. 15 seconds. I mean that is still one condition every 5 seconds under ideal circumstances. I know mesmers and thieves would absolutely kill for that.

Well I think you need to put in perspective of warrior as a whole vs only a specific build or weapon.

Mostly a warrior is a melee character. CI is not a self proc, it requires a burst hit. It is comparably more difficult for a melee attack to hit compare to ranged. Warrior also need some of these condition clear to cleanse the soft CCs, to even get to the target.

The notable exception is LB. Warrior LB burst seems too easy to proc CI. So that might need to be look at.

However, IMO, condition spec are way too OPed at the moment, and really should be addressed first.

Jerus.4350:

As a guard the only thing that frustrates me is the Warriors ability to turn tail and run… you’re freakin warriors, get back here and fight!

You’re mistaken.. They are not warriors; they are pansies. Necromancers are the true warriros.

No other class has to stay and fight until the end like a Necromancer

No other class has to take the full effects of cc like the Necromancer.

No other class has been nerfed like the Necromancer.

No other class has to be focus-fired in every fight like the Necromancer.

Warriors are little princess wusses who can run and hide from a fight just like any other class in the game………… Except for a NECROMANCER.

Don’t ever say a warrior is the man-class of this game.. It’s the necromancer.

TheDevice.2751:

Jerus.4350:

As a guard the only thing that frustrates me is the Warriors ability to turn tail and run… you’re freakin warriors, get back here and fight!

You’re mistaken.. They are not warriors; they are pansies. Necromancers are the true warriros.

No other class has to stay and fight until the end like a Necromancer

No other class has to take the full effects of cc like the Necromancer.

No other class has been nerfed like the Necromancer.

No other class has to be focus-fired in every fight like the Necromancer.

Warriors are little princess wusses who can run and hide from a fight just like any other class in the game………… Except for a NECROMANCER.

Don’t ever say a warrior is the man-class of this game.. It’s the necromancer.

The Necro answer to anything? TAKE IT LIKE A MAN!*

*: Actual gender of the character or player is irrelevant to this strategy.

TheDevice.2751:

No other class has been nerfed like the Necromancer.

Ranger wins the nerf battle hands down, closely followed by necro then ele….

Look at patch notes for the past 2 years. Guess who gets a nerf in 90% of the threads…

Prysin.8542:

TheDevice.2751:

No other class has been nerfed like the Necromancer.

Ranger wins the nerf battle hands down, closely followed by necro then ele….

Look at patch notes for the past 2 years. Guess who gets a nerf in 90% of the threads…

Unless you look back to Beta. Necros nearly got Smiter’s Booned from beta to launch.

If you want to know what I mean, go to the Guild Wars 1 wiki and look up the PvE and PvP versions of “Smiter’s Boon.”

Prysin.8542:

TheDevice.2751:

No other class has been nerfed like the Necromancer.

Ranger wins the nerf battle hands down, closely followed by necro then ele….

Look at patch notes for the past 2 years. Guess who gets a nerf in 90% of the threads…

Don’t forget about theives, they usually get the nerf hammer each patch.

People like Drarnor Kunoram are really funny.
they have been complaining and disproved by others, yet they keep complaining in other threads with the same “opinions” with no valid argument inside.

yet they never realize that it’s not the game, it’s their skills, i would happily duel your hambow warrior with my 50 games necros and show you how wrong you are and teach you how to beat a warrior

bigmonto.4215:

Well I think you need to put in perspective of warrior as a whole vs only a specific build or weapon.

Mostly a warrior is a melee character. CI is not a self proc, it requires a burst hit. It is comparably more difficult for a melee attack to hit compare to ranged. Warrior also need some of these condition clear to cleanse the soft CCs, to even get to the target.

The notable exception is LB. Warrior LB burst seems too easy to proc CI. So that might need to be look at.

However, IMO, condition spec are way too OPed at the moment, and really should be addressed first.

im not sure if you play a necromancer, because it’s because of their weakness of can not get out of the focus fire easily, they have to play sneaky so – manly point here.

and wurm works exactly like teleport, in battle of kyhlo, i can place the wurm on rooftop while fighting at mid point and teleport to the rooftop whenever i like if i sense danger. that’s only one teleport point, there are so many others on other map.
which thieves, mesmer, eles have been using to get out of combat instantly.
also don’t tell me doom or 1200 range aoe is manly.

Really? How have I been proven wrong? I state that Cleansing Ire is overpowered as it currently is, present evidence, comparisons, and the fact that other options exist for Warriors. The response I get is “Cleansing Ire is fine, Warriors are still weak to conditions.” No facts, no comparisons, just “it’s fine as it is.” This is despite the fact they’re harder to kill than necros with conditions and CI is the only cleanse they’re running.

Hambows I’ve known how to beat. Run off during Zerker Stance, then come back and control the crap out of them with Fears (corrupting Balanced Stance) while I smack them in their face. This is not an issue of Hambows being too difficult to beat, this is an issue of one trait completely nullifying an intended weakness of the class.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Really? How have I been proven wrong? I state that Cleansing Ire is overpowered as it currently is, present evidence, comparisons, and the fact that other options exist for Warriors. The response I get is “Cleansing Ire is fine, Warriors are still weak to conditions.” No facts, no comparisons, just “it’s fine as it is.” This is despite the fact they’re harder to kill than necros with conditions and CI is the only cleanse they’re running.

Hambows I’ve known how to beat. Run off during Zerker Stance, then come back and control the crap out of them with Fears (corrupting Balanced Stance) while I smack them in their face. This is not an issue of Hambows being too difficult to beat, this is an issue of one trait completely nullifying an intended weakness of the class.

The problem is that without cleansing ire we had to use all of the cleansing skills and traits in into a build which left no room for diversity. To survive in a condition heavy meta we were basically forced into a build so focused on cleansing that we couldn’t do what we were meant to do which is CC and damage. Having cleansing tied to our burst skills is a great mechanic. It just needs to be toned down a bit.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Really? How have I been proven wrong? I state that Cleansing Ire is overpowered as it currently is, present evidence, comparisons, and the fact that other options exist for Warriors. The response I get is “Cleansing Ire is fine, Warriors are still weak to conditions.” No facts, no comparisons, just “it’s fine as it is.” This is despite the fact they’re harder to kill than necros with conditions and CI is the only cleanse they’re running.

Hambows I’ve known how to beat. Run off during Zerker Stance, then come back and control the crap out of them with Fears (corrupting Balanced Stance) while I smack them in their face. This is not an issue of Hambows being too difficult to beat, this is an issue of one trait completely nullifying an intended weakness of the class.

let’s see

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Even without Berserker Stance, Cleansing Ire is still quite strong.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

one trait completely nullifying an intended weakness of the class.

hmm

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Run off during Zerker Stance, then come back and control the crap out of them with Fears (corrupting Balanced Stance) while I smack them in their face.

tell me how cleansing ire nullifying an intended weakness again.

Kukchi.6173:

/closethread warriors have been getting nerfs the last 3 patches. If you think warrior is OP then you haven’t face/played a thief.

Sure thought that through poorly. You feeling of a thief being OP (on some levels I agree) is irrelavent to the fact that so many feel the warrior has many OP builds.

Solori.6025:

This basically^

People want this game to play itself and for them to be successful with minimal effort.
Warriors aren’t hard to fight against, if you actually try to learn the game and do well.

Odd you would say that, considering the majority of the player base who have leveled multiple or as in my case, all professions to 80, would feel what you stated applies to the warrior far and beyond any other profession.

Julie Yann.5379:

The problem is that without cleansing ire we had to use all of the cleansing skills and traits in into a build which left no room for diversity. To survive in a condition heavy meta we were basically forced into a build so focused on cleansing that we couldn’t do what we were meant to do which is CC and damage. Having cleansing tied to our burst skills is a great mechanic. It just needs to be toned down a bit.

There have been two dev statements posted and mentions in ready ups or forum post. The more recent states word for word in the weakness catagory
“Overrun by conditions” and the other says weak to conditions, and relying on friends to assist them with control conditions.

That is not the problem, or even a problem. It is stated that it is intended to be the design.

Simon.3794:

tell me how cleansing ire nullifying an intended weakness again.

Most of us let logic tell us, You need him to explain it too you? When conditions are your stated weakness, yet you have so many skills to either nullify conditions all together, be immune to their application, or cleanse them better then most other professions that are not intended to have them as a weakness,

Simon.3794:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Really? How have I been proven wrong? I state that Cleansing Ire is overpowered as it currently is, present evidence, comparisons, and the fact that other options exist for Warriors. The response I get is “Cleansing Ire is fine, Warriors are still weak to conditions.” No facts, no comparisons, just “it’s fine as it is.” This is despite the fact they’re harder to kill than necros with conditions and CI is the only cleanse they’re running.

Hambows I’ve known how to beat. Run off during Zerker Stance, then come back and control the crap out of them with Fears (corrupting Balanced Stance) while I smack them in their face. This is not an issue of Hambows being too difficult to beat, this is an issue of one trait completely nullifying an intended weakness of the class.

let’s see

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Even without Berserker Stance, Cleansing Ire is still quite strong.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

one trait completely nullifying an intended weakness of the class.

hmm

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Run off during Zerker Stance, then come back and control the crap out of them with Fears (corrupting Balanced Stance) while I smack them in their face.

tell me how cleansing ire nullifying an intended weakness again.

How much difficulty do you have with conditions once Zerker Stance has run out? Obviously more than when it’s still up (but that’s the case with any immunity), but still far less than pretty much any other profession. And you still have zero cleanse skills equipped.

Conditions are designed to be a weakness of Warriors, yet they do the best of anyone against them without having a single cleanse skill equipped. That is why Cleansing Ire is OP.

Why was I so particular on control with Fear? Because it’s the only way a necro can stop a Warrior from using their burst skill and thus keep them from just cleanisng everything. If there were options for stun instead of Fear, you can bet I’d use them too!

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Why was I so particular on control with Fear? Because it’s the only way a necro can stop a Warrior from using their burst skill and thus keep them from just cleanisng everything. If there were options for stun instead of Fear, you can bet I’d use them too!

Ahha, so CI is not OPed. You just control him so he can’t hit with burst or you can evade the burst, or block it, or blind it, or….. As powerful as it sounds, this is the intended weakness with CI. In fact CI is not enough, this scenario is precisely the reason why we don’t just run CI + zerker stands as you claimed.

Just because a profession is weak against conditions does not, and should not be completed destroy by it. As it stands now, warrior is still weak against conditions.

bigmonto.4215:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Why was I so particular on control with Fear? Because it’s the only way a necro can stop a Warrior from using their burst skill and thus keep them from just cleanisng everything. If there were options for stun instead of Fear, you can bet I’d use them too!

Ahha, so CI is not OPed. You just control him so he can’t hit with burst or you can evade the burst, or block it, or blind it, or….. As powerful as it sounds, this is the intended weakness with CI. In fact CI is not enough, this scenario is precisely the reason why we don’t just run CI + zerker stands as you claimed.

Just because a profession is weak against conditions does not, and should not be completed destroy by it. As it stands now, warrior is still weak against conditions.

No, CC works against any cleanse ability outside of those that also are stunbreakers. This is not some technique showing a weakness of CI. Instead, it’s showing that a 3 condition cleanse on as little as a 7 second cooldown necessitates being locked out of it. Necros have one of the few condition builds that can actually do that. This is not a case of “see, it can be beaten, it’s not OP.” Overpowered things can still be beaten, it just takes much, much more work. If I miss one Fear timing, I’m set back quite a lot. All I’m doing is working to counter your trait.

“Weak to conditions” does not mean “always loses to conditions,” no. I agree with you on that. However, it also does not mean “having the best cleansing ability in the game without investing a single skill, rune, or sigil for it.”

Blocks/blinds/evades don’t work against Hambow builds to prevent CI. Even if they did, landing your burst skills has never been difficult (outside of Kill Shot). No more difficult than landing some CC, for example.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

bigmonto.4215:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Why was I so particular on control with Fear? Because it’s the only way a necro can stop a Warrior from using their burst skill and thus keep them from just cleanisng everything. If there were options for stun instead of Fear, you can bet I’d use them too!

Ahha, so CI is not OPed. You just control him so he can’t hit with burst or you can evade the burst, or block it, or blind it, or….. As powerful as it sounds, this is the intended weakness with CI. In fact CI is not enough, this scenario is precisely the reason why we don’t just run CI + zerker stands as you claimed.

Just because a profession is weak against conditions does not, and should not be completed destroy by it. As it stands now, warrior is still weak against conditions.

No, CC works against any cleanse ability outside of those that also are stunbreakers. This is not some technique showing a weakness of CI. Instead, it’s showing that a 3 condition cleanse on as little as a 7 second cooldown necessitates being locked out of it. Necros have one of the few condition builds that can actually do that. This is not a case of “see, it can be beaten, it’s not OP.” Overpowered things can still be beaten, it just takes much, much more work. If I miss one Fear timing, I’m set back quite a lot. All I’m doing is working to counter your trait.

“Weak to conditions” does not mean “always loses to conditions,” no. I agree with you on that. However, it also does not mean “having the best cleansing ability in the game without investing a single skill, rune, or sigil for it.”

Blocks/blinds/evades don’t work against Hambow builds to prevent CI. Even if they did, landing your burst skills has never been difficult (outside of Kill Shot). No more difficult than landing some CC, for example.

I’d like you to try something.

First, go play a build with CI but don’t use Burst Mastery or Berserker Stance. Try with a LB then without.

Then, go play Warrior with either Mending, a Traited Warhorn, or Shouts w/ Soldier runes with no CI or Zerk Stance.

Finally, Play with a combination of those from the 2nd suggestion. I have a feeling that if you encounter any conditions build, you probably won’t win if they’re even mildly competent. The first option is the least punishing, and if you take Signet of Stamina you might do OK, but it’ll be hell. With suggestions 2 and 3 you’ll find your condition removal to be pathetic. Even with Warhorn + Soldier Shouts running anything other than conditions (which would be lessen because of having a Horn) your damage output will be pathetic so a condi build would still win.

My point is that Warrior is walking on the edge of good and useless. One wrong nerf and Warriors go back to being a laughing stock that can’t survive after Berserker Stance is up. It would be a return to the days of running “try to down something before being downed yourself” builds.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Blocks/blinds/evades don’t work against Hambow builds to prevent CI. Even if they did, landing your burst skills has never been difficult (outside of Kill Shot), against me. No more difficult than landing some CC, for example.

Fixed.

Only longbow reliably procs CI.

Cygnus.6903:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Blocks/blinds/evades don’t work against Hambow builds to prevent CI. Even if they did, landing your burst skills has never been difficult (outside of Kill Shot), against me. No more difficult than landing some CC, for example.

Fixed.

Only longbow reliably procs CI.

No, you broke it. I don’t have issues landing burst skills either. Maybe that’s because I’m used to landing long cast times from necro, though.

Flurry is dead easy to land, Skull Crack isn’t difficult in the slightest, and Eviscerate is rarely avoided if I already baited a dodge (again, not difficult to do). Arcing Slice is probably the easiest burst skill to land because nobody ever watches for it. Earthshaker and Kill Shot are the only tough ones to land (Kill Shot being nigh impossible).

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Cygnus.6903:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Blocks/blinds/evades don’t work against Hambow builds to prevent CI. Even if they did, landing your burst skills has never been difficult (outside of Kill Shot), against me. No more difficult than landing some CC, for example.

Fixed.

Only longbow reliably procs CI.

No, you broke it. I don’t have issues landing burst skills either. Maybe that’s because I’m used to landing long cast times from necro, though.

Flurry is dead easy to land, Skull Crack isn’t difficult in the slightest, and Eviscerate is rarely avoided if I already baited a dodge (again, not difficult to do). Arcing Slice is probably the easiest burst skill to land because nobody ever watches for it. Earthshaker and Kill Shot are the only tough ones to land (Kill Shot being nigh impossible).

We must agree to disagree.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

No, CC works against any cleanse ability outside of those that also are stunbreakers.

“evade the burst, or block it, or blind it, or kite it” doesn’t, am I right?

bigmonto.4215:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

No, CC works against any cleanse ability outside of those that also are stunbreakers.

“evade the burst, or block it, or blind it, or kite it” doesn’t, am I right?

Not against Combustive Shot, which all Hambows have. Anything else just results in a missed burst, a weapon swap, and another burst immedietly (since a miss doesn’t lose adrenaline).

I tried to play warrior without longbow and even with CI traited, against good oponents you can forget your CI to get conditions off because the blind/dodge/evade spam in this game is so high that without longbow in near impossible to use CI when you need it.

CI is good only in some situations. Very far for being OP.

I think berserker stance is the real problem. If it were toned down in effectiveness or duration, I think it’d produce better counterplay.

I believe Cleansing Ire is easy enough to play around and prevent and thus has some realistic counterplay.

Warriors aren’t op at all.

Just meet a war, and i (shatter mesmer) engaged him.
He simply ignored me, and go on a other taget, kill the target in 15s and taking all my bursts and fall at 50% (i exaggerate, rather like 80% but just to don’t say they are op)

So warrior are not op.
they just have more power, armor, regen, dispell, they just have more.

Reborn D.2769:

Warriors aren’t op at all.

Just meet a war, and i (shatter mesmer) engaged him.
He simply ignored me, and go on a other taget, kill the target in 15s and taking all my bursts and fall at 50% (i exaggerate, rather like 80% but just to don’t say they are op)

So warrior are not op.
they just have more power, armor, regen, dispell, they just have more.

Thank you for your input on the issue. By the way. Next time you attack a warrior (or someone else) maybe try to swap those wet noodles to actual weapons, that might do the trick.

And what comes to the topic. IMO, warriors don’t need the berserker stance as a complete condition shut down. Well, not complete as it doesn’t cleanse, but you all know how it works… I hope.

Anyways. Warriors should have good utilities and skills to nullify move impaire skills to be able to get to target and stick to it. After all we are “On your face” characters (no kinky thoughts here, please). I would like to (my own opinion) see berserker stance changed in a way so that it would offer warrior immunity to move impaires only (immob., cripple, chill). Up the duration to 10s, lower the CD to 40s.

AND, because everyone is now “wah wah, warriors already have 10000% reduction in move impaires already, why this kitten”. We need to change the system so that it’s not possible to reach that high move impaire reduction with runes, food and a trait. Lower the food to -20% or -15% and tweak the runes a bit and change the trait to 25% reduction (for all professions for equality). This way you could stack it but only reach something like 65% passive reduction.

This would change that warriors wouldn’t feel so tied to passively lower move impaires that much as you could use your zerker stance to get and stay close and I feel it would be a bit more warrior like anyways than stacking huge amount of passive effects.

Meaningful weakness:
Rush skills (Rush+bull’s charge) entirely broken. They often over shoot and rubber band you entirely.

leap skills (savage leap) See rush skills.

Burst skills: The most animated skills in all the game. No other profession can boost as highly telegraphed skills as these. Refer to article “obscenely easy to dodge.”

Nerfed weapons in oblivion: Try playing mace. (refer to burst skills animation) Better yet, try playing duel mace. Good luck with that. Also refer to longbow “Generates too much adrenaline.”- actually generates no adrenaline.

Grandmaster traits: Refer to article on 90% grandmaster skills that sigils can do, or are totally worthless to invest in.

Raw deal: Refer “We aren’t going to nerf healing signet until we have a more viable option for it’s active.” next read, “8% healing signet nerf, no change to active.”

Nonsensical: “We have decided to back load axe damage so only the 3rd third does viable damage.” Next refer to whirling axe Which does less damage than just auto attacking, and as stated, auto attack sucks. So burst is where all of axes damage is at. Refer to burst skills again.

Sorry, what were asking about meaningful weaknesses? or do you think it is “balanced” to have so many skills that have been nerfed, are broken, don’t perform as intended, been changed for no legit reason should also have more weakness like they are only allowed to have half a screen to play on?

“All professions can roll all roles.” Creating major weaknesses in any profession only undoes this original statement. You can have all professions able to perform all roles then say profession X is weak at playstyle Y. It is design concept they rolled with, now we all have to live with it. Breaking the trinity..yup, they broke it alright.

Cygnus.6903:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Cygnus.6903:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Blocks/blinds/evades don’t work against Hambow builds to prevent CI. Even if they did, landing your burst skills has never been difficult (outside of Kill Shot), against me. No more difficult than landing some CC, for example.

Fixed.

Only longbow reliably procs CI.

No, you broke it. I don’t have issues landing burst skills either. Maybe that’s because I’m used to landing long cast times from necro, though.

Flurry is dead easy to land, Skull Crack isn’t difficult in the slightest, and Eviscerate is rarely avoided if I already baited a dodge (again, not difficult to do). Arcing Slice is probably the easiest burst skill to land because nobody ever watches for it. Earthshaker and Kill Shot are the only tough ones to land (Kill Shot being nigh impossible).

We must agree to disagree.

I’m with this guy. If you can get flurry to land 100% of the time despite it’s habitual tendency to over shoot, land axe despite its overt animation and mace with its insane long cast time, then I suggest you’re ready to stop Pvp’ing against the sight impaired and step up to average and moderately good opponents. I think this will change your mind on burst skills being insanely easy to land. Not trying to be harsh, but if their title is avenger or higher, you’re going to have to work on landing those burst skills because these players generally have their keyboard shortcuts down pat and ready.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Meaningful weakness:
Rush skills (Rush+bull’s charge) entirely broken. They often over shoot and rubber band you entirely.

leap skills (savage leap) See rush skills.

Bull’s charge works pretty decently at the moment. The only problem is that when it actually connects it can leave you too far away from your enemy and not in a desired range of him/her. Rush, just broken skill, it could be a good offensive skill if it could be used for that other than from point blank.

Burst skills: The most animated skills in all the game. No other profession can boost as highly telegraphed skills as these. Refer to article “obscenely easy to dodge.”

I don’t really mind that our burst skills are rather obvious and telegraphed. They are ment to be flashy big hits that should be dangerous to eat for the enemy. But some of the burst skills are just flat out useless (GS burst) or some are over telegraphed (the shiny ball of inpending doom over the head of warrior for half an year when you do mace burst)

Nerfed weapons in oblivion: Try playing mace. (refer to burst skills animation) Better yet, try playing duel mace. Good luck with that. Also refer to longbow “Generates too much adrenaline.”- actually generates no adrenaline.

LB and Mace nerfs were unjustified imo as well. Axe should be about spike damage, but the current form of AA-chain is plain stupid, they stacked the chain damage too much on the end.

The hammer nerf was actually good call as it had huge damage, hard CC and almost all of it in AoE / cleave except backbreaker. It’s still a good weapon even after the damage nerf.

Raw deal: Refer “We aren’t going to nerf healing signet until we have a more viable option for it’s active.” next read, “8% healing signet nerf, no change to active.”

It’s still a good heal like that. And seems like most people still have hard time to realize that if warrior has HS they need to be spiked down and not danced around. If you can’t keep up over 400 dps on warrior or spike him to death then the heal is doing what it is ment to do, give warrior a steady sustain and upper hand on enemys who prefer a long draining fight.

Anyhow, I agree quite a lot with you but warrior is still in a pretty good spot and people are mostly kittened off about warriors because we don’t fall into the usual build types (high spike dmg + weak self sustain / sustained damage + good self sustain) that other professions fall into and that makes us a bit more special enemy which they would need to fight differently, but it’s hard you know.

PS. I usually have easy time with other warriors 1v1 even though I play mostly AoE roamer with GS and Hammer and no stances outside balanced. <— this is not pointed at you Cntrl, but on the people who say warriors are impossible to kill

they need an arrow on the knee, if they want mobility or run like kittens they should relly on other classes.

Hit n’run its thief role not warriors.

Its damage is great but thats ok, players need to telegraph skills and play in team.

Aeolus.3615:

they need an arrow on the knee, if they want mobility or run like kittens they should relly on other classes.

Hit n’run its thief role not warriors.

Its damage is great but thats ok, players need to telegraph skills and play in team.

You do realize that if warriors didnt have mobility to close gaps to enemies they would pose close to no threat to most professions. Warrior is already hindered to great extend if it is under the effect of move impaire (reason why so many warriors stack -condi duration). The problem is that the tools we use for closing the gap can be used to widen that same gap if we start to lose the fight.

Edit: You can also see this phenomen in the fact that a lot of warriors like to take the +25% speed when wielding melee weapon trait even when they have roughly 90% uptime on swiftness and warriors are one of the best classes to buff themselves with swiftness.

Warriors arnt OP in spvp, if that’s what you mean.

S/d thieves can interrupt everything a warrior does, stripping their stab and turning them into a cc’d punch bag. Oh yeah and they will 1v1 them easily.

Oh wait s/d can 1v1 anything on similar skill levels. Mmmmm

Ya warrior OP right…. dat eviscerate.. no counter

It seems like the vast majority of issues many have with the Warrior are almost all due to GEAR, FOOD, or other mechanics. Most of these things are available to all classes it just so happens that Warrior benefits from them more. Something to note: while running Dogged March, Mel Runes, and Lemongrass Poultry Soup means you can shrug off most light CC there’s also a pretty significant investment of gold to do that. A full set of Mel runes is around 50g, and LGPS hovers around the 25-30 silver mark. This is not a setup that your average “scrub” is going to be aware of much less able to reliably afford. Also of note is that Koi Cakes are dirt cheap and give you +40% condi duration, which is much better than what the Soup gives for the price.

In PvP, the amount of movement reduction via traits/runes feels just fine. Most meta builds don’t use GS and are practically forced into LB to reliable deal with condis. Also, these tears over Zerker Stance are ridiculous. If you can’t tell that the Warrior is glowing orange-red and that there’s a very obvious icon by their name that is entirely your fault. It also doesn’t cleanse condis already on you. Here’s how you beat a Warrior with a LB + CI + Zerk Stance with conditions:

• Apply just enough conditions to bait out Zerk Stance. Fear is a good opener because it may force them to pop their Stability AND Zerk Stance.
• If you have any power based damage, focus on that for the duration. If not, just focus entirely on being defensive. Dodge the important skills (Sigil of Energy is good on pretty much any build) and don’t spend too much time in the fire field if you can avoid it. Combustive Shot pulses much less now so avoiding them is much easier than it used to be. During these 8 seconds I CONSTANTLY see the condi user use all their best skills and then they have nothing once it runs out.
• After those 8 seconds you have a choice depending on the situation. If they used a LB burst right at the end of the Zerk Stance then seize the opportunity to load them up on conditions. If you think they have a burst, use just enough condi that it baits out the burst, THEN go for your heavy hitters.
• Grats, the Warrior is now out of their best anti condi measures and can do little to stop you.

Common Mistakes:

• Necros love to open up with Signet of Spite, which means it either hit Zerk Stance or they use it as soon as it hits meaning you won’t be able to capitalize on it.
• Engis just cycle through nades at the start leading to the same issue as the Necro. You blew all your best skills at the point when the Warrior is strongest against them. Most Engi condi builds should have enough defense to avoid being killed for 8 seconds. You have your shield skills, Gear Shield, and depending on your build Rocket Boots/Elixir S/Slick Shoes/Whatever. If you have triple kit you can bait out stability OR buy yourself time with Big Ol’ Bomb. Either they pop stability to wade through it, of they stay out of the area which means they’re either pinging with LB (not that scary) or just not doing anything.
• Power builds can just do what they do since you don’t care about condi anyways. Before you say something about “hur but wut bout heavy armor!?” I should remind you that it’s been posted on these forums multiple times that the difference between armor types is not that significant.

I follow the tips above when I play Engi and Warriors are hardly an issue. In fact, when it comes to actual combat prowess I feel much stronger on my Engi and contrary to what some try to tell you it’s NOT that much harder to play than any other class.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I follow the tips above when I play Engi and Warriors are hardly an issue. In fact, when it comes to actual combat prowess I feel much stronger on my Engi and contrary to what some try to tell you it’s NOT that much harder to play than any other class.

This is not evidence, though. Someone with your talent and ability excels at a higher skill floor/ceiling profession against others who’s rating is set artificially higher due to ease-of-profession, or even better, the skills you employ and how you employ them are meant as a check on the profession. This still doesn’t mean Warriors shouldn’t be shaved a bit.

lunyboy.8672:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I follow the tips above when I play Engi and Warriors are hardly an issue. In fact, when it comes to actual combat prowess I feel much stronger on my Engi and contrary to what some try to tell you it’s NOT that much harder to play than any other class.

This is not evidence, though. Someone with your talent and ability excels at a higher skill floor/ceiling profession against others who’s rating is set artificially higher due to ease-of-profession, or even better, the skills you employ and how you employ them are meant as a check on the profession. This still doesn’t mean Warriors shouldn’t be shaved a bit.

It’s not also cool that on higher skill levels warriors rating is artificially set lower due to very obvious animations and other limits.

And it’s not that hard to realize and read a warrior. The telegraphs are so big and flashy that after one or two hits of certain skill you can recognize it. Also most warrior weapons and builds consentrate on pretty solid executions. A → B → C and if you happen to dodge B the C loses it’s value a lot.

Paavotar.3971:

lunyboy.8672:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I follow the tips above when I play Engi and Warriors are hardly an issue. In fact, when it comes to actual combat prowess I feel much stronger on my Engi and contrary to what some try to tell you it’s NOT that much harder to play than any other class.

This is not evidence, though. Someone with your talent and ability excels at a higher skill floor/ceiling profession against others who’s rating is set artificially higher due to ease-of-profession, or even better, the skills you employ and how you employ them are meant as a check on the profession. This still doesn’t mean Warriors shouldn’t be shaved a bit.

It’s not also cool that on higher skill levels warriors rating is artificially set lower due to very obvious animations and other limits.

And it’s not that hard to realize and read a warrior. The telegraphs are so big and flashy that after one or two hits of certain skill you can recognize it. Also most warrior weapons and builds consentrate on pretty solid executions. A -> B -> C and if you happen to dodge B the C loses it’s value a lot.

This is where the talent of reading your opponent and understanding counterplay really comes in though, when you can feint a big flashy move only to cancel it and land something else, like a knockdown. You bait out your opponents defenses while smashing yourself against their weaknesses, and weaknesses are something most warriors are light on.

lunyboy.8672:

Paavotar.3971:

….

This is where the talent of reading your opponent and understanding counterplay really comes in though, when you can feint a big flashy move only to cancel it and land something else, like a knockdown. You bait out your opponents defenses while smashing yourself against their weaknesses, and weaknesses are something most warriors are light on.

In my opinion it’s kinda stupid that as a warrior I have to learn to cancel out my own actions with a button that isn’t ment for it and is not really promoted in the game itself and afaik no other profession has to cancel own actions to be effective in higher skill levels. I like the skill canceling, but it’s not really ment to be there so it shouldn’t be counted into balancing stuff out.

Paavotar.3971:

lunyboy.8672:

Paavotar.3971:

….

This is where the talent of reading your opponent and understanding counterplay really comes in though, when you can feint a big flashy move only to cancel it and land something else, like a knockdown. You bait out your opponents defenses while smashing yourself against their weaknesses, and weaknesses are something most warriors are light on.

In my opinion it’s kinda stupid that as a warrior I have to learn to cancel out my own actions with a button that isn’t ment for it and is not really promoted in the game itself and afaik no other profession has to cancel own actions to be effective in higher skill levels. I like the skill canceling, but it’s not really ment to be there so it shouldn’t be counted into balancing stuff out.

That’s part of why I feel much better on my Engi. I never feel like I need to skill cancel because missing one small combo isn’t the end of the world because I got 4 others and they all come off CD relatively fast.

Also in WvW, if I take Rocket Boots/perma swiftness/high Vigor up-time my ability to escape isn’t that much lower than my Warrior. The only weakness is that there’s no stability so I have to make sure I get a head start. That’s also not a huge deal because I’m mostly ranged anyways.

Phaeton.9582:

Warriors arnt OP in spvp, if that’s what you mean.

S/d thieves can interrupt everything a warrior does, stripping their stab and turning them into a cc’d punch bag. Oh yeah and they will 1v1 them easily.

Oh wait s/d can 1v1 anything on similar skill levels. Mmmmm

Ya warrior OP right…. dat eviscerate.. no counter

An eviscerate warrior can easily eat a thief up. People just gotta learn to dodge larcenous strike not flanking strike… Also thief s/d flanking strike has an after cast leaving them vulnerable to eviscerate. And lets not forget double endure pain plus berserker stance… And also arcing arrow still regularly hits for 6k on thieves when running an eviscerate build…

Paavotar.3971:

In my opinion it’s kinda stupid that as a warrior I have to learn to cancel out my own actions with a button that isn’t ment for it and is not really promoted in the game itself and afaik no other profession has to cancel own actions to be effective in higher skill levels. I like the skill canceling, but it’s not really ment to be there so it shouldn’t be counted into balancing stuff out.

my d/d thief disagrees with you :> rather, the only d/d thieves that are viable in wvw are the ones able to fake cloak and dagger to bait out dodges, at the same time, we aren’t viable in s/tpvp in any way shape or form. just be happy with what you have!

Paavotar.3971:

lunyboy.8672:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I follow the tips above when I play Engi and Warriors are hardly an issue. In fact, when it comes to actual combat prowess I feel much stronger on my Engi and contrary to what some try to tell you it’s NOT that much harder to play than any other class.

This is not evidence, though. Someone with your talent and ability excels at a higher skill floor/ceiling profession against others who’s rating is set artificially higher due to ease-of-profession, or even better, the skills you employ and how you employ them are meant as a check on the profession. This still doesn’t mean Warriors shouldn’t be shaved a bit.

It’s not also cool that on higher skill levels warriors rating is artificially set lower due to very obvious animations and other limits.

And it’s not that hard to realize and read a warrior. The telegraphs are so big and flashy that after one or two hits of certain skill you can recognize it. Also most warrior weapons and builds consentrate on pretty solid executions. A -> B -> C and if you happen to dodge B the C loses it’s value a lot.

Not that I think wars are op but you can by pass the telegraph weakness by playing the smallest size asura. Warriors are one of the profs that benefit the most by doing this.

jportell.2197:

Phaeton.9582:

Warriors arnt OP in spvp, if that’s what you mean.

S/d thieves can interrupt everything a warrior does, stripping their stab and turning them into a cc’d punch bag. Oh yeah and they will 1v1 them easily.

Oh wait s/d can 1v1 anything on similar skill levels. Mmmmm

Ya warrior OP right…. dat eviscerate.. no counter

An eviscerate warrior can easily eat a thief up. People just gotta learn to dodge larcenous strike not flanking strike… Also thief s/d flanking strike has an after cast leaving them vulnerable to eviscerate. And lets not forget double endure pain plus berserker stance… And also arcing arrow still regularly hits for 6k on thieves when running an eviscerate build…

I don’t get hit by eviscerate on other classes, so not sure how a skilled s/d thief could be…

S/d steals stab. Without stability warriors are easy targets IMO, I’m not sure how they’re still in this meta…

Phaeton.9582:

jportell.2197:

Phaeton.9582:

Warriors arnt OP in spvp, if that’s what you mean.

S/d thieves can interrupt everything a warrior does, stripping their stab and turning them into a cc’d punch bag. Oh yeah and they will 1v1 them easily.

Oh wait s/d can 1v1 anything on similar skill levels. Mmmmm

Ya warrior OP right…. dat eviscerate.. no counter

An eviscerate warrior can easily eat a thief up. People just gotta learn to dodge larcenous strike not flanking strike… Also thief s/d flanking strike has an after cast leaving them vulnerable to eviscerate. And lets not forget double endure pain plus berserker stance… And also arcing arrow still regularly hits for 6k on thieves when running an eviscerate build…

I don’t get hit by eviscerate on other classes, so not sure how a skilled s/d thief could be…

S/d steals stab. Without stability warriors are easy targets IMO, I’m not sure how they’re still in this meta…

It was a very skilled s/d thief… Can’t remember the name off the top of my head but checked their LB ranking after our match and they definitely weren’t a scrub. Maybe warriors just spam all their stuff as soon as they can instead of timing and baiting out the dodges or getting immobs off with teammates… You gotta depend on teammates or get your pin down off which is still relatively easy to do.

Come on guys. Thief players have already figured everything out. Create a <INSERT CLASS HERE> then L2P.

Rolyate.6753:

I think berserker stance is the real problem. If it were toned down in effectiveness or duration, I think it’d produce better counterplay.

I believe Cleansing Ire is easy enough to play around and prevent and thus has some realistic counterplay.

yea thats a good suggestion.