Guild Wars 2

There have been tonnes of feedback threads with some GREAT feedback, some even analysing skills, or going as far to compare other classes.

I get it it’s still early, but it would be nice to not be completely ignored. I understand you’re confused because you have trolls backing up the claims that elementalists are overpowered, which would lead you to think the class is fine and the people complaining are just bad, but no.

That is not the case. I played 30 games of PvP today so far, and in 24 of them I was the ONLY elementalist.

The other six contained only one additional elementalist, who pretty much just gave up and left the game half way through.

I also had to take the time in a match to today to have an interesting conversation with a level 80 guardian main, who runs a retaliation support build. Long story short, he admitted Guardians (if specced right) are so OP you can pretty much sit still and watch the opposing team fall.

Time and time again, these things pop up amongst other builds, so here’s my question. What exactly do you want to hear? Or find out before we get some attention?

How can you say anyone saying “Elementalist OP” or “Elementalist balanced” is trolling and everyone saying “Elementalist UP” is right? Just because they don’t agree with your oppinion?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Balancing-GW2/first#post92064

That means, if you’re right there may be buffs for Elementalist or nerfs to other professions.

It sounds to me that you’re just not playing it well. The elementalist, at worst, is BARELY under the other classes when played (and built) properly.

Also, how could you say that ANet is ignoring anything? Have you read these posts? :
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Update-Notes-September-9th-2012/first#post36745
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Update-Notes-September-14th-2012/first#post95296

Changing a game of this scale has tons of implications and requires testing and tons of group thought before anything can be done. Give it time, and try different builds. Everything has a counter.

Hi Gelrod. I think there’s a general frustration from elementalists that hit max level to hear feedback from people who’ve invested very little time with the profession or from those that haven’t played other professions. For example look at the overpowered thread below..started by someone who plays a thief and “played around” with an elementalist. I think this frustration was compounded, for the OP, because the dev made mention of the overpowered threads..though I believe the dev was generalizing. Elementalists have done a great job explaining the difficulties they face in terms of dps, survivability, specific spells, and overall skill caps. I dont think there’s any question nor ways to counter these challenges. Anet will most likely verify sources for any feedback they are taking seriously. I trust in Anet..they are very good at what they do.

Oh look, another assumption that I’m bad.

Far from it, and I’d be happy to prove it to any of you.

It also looks like many of you cannot read. Elementalists have not been touched since the nerf, yet every other class is getting buffed left right and center. Do you know how EASY it is to troll people using other classes, especially Guardian? I get it, you guys just think everyone who complains is a complete and utter numpty who’s only played their class to level 10, and have no idea how the class works.

I have MASTERED my class.
I am GREAT at it.
I am REDICULOUSLY hard to take down in PvP.

Yet, I roll an engineer, guardian, or warrior with absolutely no knowledge of them and do better than my ele with less effort.

Explain?

You guys are the sole reason why nothing is getting anywhere besides our class, you guys probably have not tried other classes, and just stating what you’re stating because you feel it’s fine. It’s not fine, everybody knows this. Anet are amazing, but I will not wait another five years for this class to get balanced again like it did in GW1, that is not on. I’m not talking major buffs or things as simple as “gif us 100% moar damaj pliz” I’m talking about many things which have been stated numerous times.

Now you start sounding beyond belief. How can I take you serious if you claim you have mastered the elementalist?

I still don’t think elementalist needs a huge buff… some minor tweaks (mainly for the ultimates) and bugfixes. Some other classes could/should be toned down a little.

Wow, there’s no pleasing you people. Let me guess, I have to join some well known PvP guild and stream TPvP matches to be taken seriously right?

For someone who’s played games (MMO,FPS,TPS,Tactical, the lot) for 15 years, it’s really not hard to master a class which revolves around attument swapping and knowing what your skills do.

I guess no one of the well known PvP guilds or streamers would say of himself, that he/she has mastered his/her class, so that wouldn’t help.
Playing pretty good? OK. Making few mistakes? Sure, I believe that. Mastering? Never.

No one will ever play his/her class to perfection. Same as in real life. A kung-fu master who practiced his art for 60 years would never say that he mastered kung-fu.

So, if you tell me you’ve “mastered” elementalist I can assume, that you’re talking bs.

Wow, way to go super literal on the logic game there dude. Fine, let me rephrase for your benefit.

I have hit a plateau with my elementalist and there is nothing I can do to improve besides getting gear and practising map placement.

And I don’t believe that as well. I’m sure you waste a dodge once in a while? Miss a skill? Get hit by a skill you should’ve dodged? Use a skill you could’ve spared the cd?

But whatever, you’ve lost credibility, who cares exept me.

Everything I do, I do tactically. If you knew anything about the elementalist class, you’d know that hitting our targets isn’t going to happen a lot of the time, which is something called “Area Denial.”

You can say what you like, but actions speak louder than words, and if you care to waste fifteen minutes of your time you can join me in PvP and you can witness me “not being a complete scrubs that doesn’t know what he’s doing”. I can’t dodge every hit, there is something called your endurance bar. I’m going to get hit by skills, because I don’t have infinite teleports.

Also: Being literal to the definition doesn’t make your point any stronger.

Other classes are being balanced too. Take the thief for instance, just got nerfed in last nights update. I was already super frustrated with the thief, fighting with my build the whole way to lvl 40, maybe it’s just not my type of play style, so, tried something new, created an ele char and I love it, much more like my play style and I think the ele has much more potential than the thief does. I’ll have to chime back in when I get to the higher lvls, but for me to like a new char from the beginning tells me a lot about whether I’ll be liking the char later on.

“not being a complete scrubs that doesn’t know what he’s doing”.

Finally a not hugely exaggerated and somewhat believable sentence. Wasn’t so hard now, was it?

Phato.5831:

Other classes are being balanced too. Take the thief for instance, just got nerfed in last nights update. I was already super frustrated with the thief, fighting with my build the whole way to lvl 40, maybe it’s just not my type of play style, so, tried something new, created an ele char and I love it, much more like my play style and I think the ele has much more potential than the thief does. I’ll have to chime back in when I get to the higher lvls, but for me to like a new char from the beginning tells me a lot about whether I’ll be liking the char later on.

Heart seeker didn’t get nerfed. Look at the description of the changes. It actually became a little stronger lol.

Does anyone have a link to this famous “5 year fix” they did to GW1 eles? Curious to see what it actually was.

Ok, now you’re talking bs again Razarai.

Actually if you read the notes it did get slightly nerfed.

Old: 100%-66%, 66%-33%, 33%-0%. New: 100%-50%, 50%-25%, 25%-0%.

Razarei.2809:

Heart seeker didn’t get nerfed. Look at the description of the changes. It actually became a little stronger lol.

Heartseeker: Reduced damage of the 100%-50% threshold by 20%. Damage thresholds changed. Old: 100%-66%, 66%-33%, 33%-0%. New: 100%-50%, 50%-25%, 25%-0%.

Looks nerfed to me reducing damage for the higher threshold and making the lower thresholds lower, therefore reducing the time to actually make heartseeker effective.

Now I’m just starting to think your comprehension is a bit skewed :/

Quote>

Actually it just became a little bit better.
Yes 100-50% got nerfed. But the 50-25% now does the same damage that you would take from 66-33%, and 25%-0% does 33-0%.
Changes? Its starts doing its damage on LOWER hp than it did before. So instead of having say 7k hp before they start hitting 5k each hit, you’re only going to have 5k.
Once you hit 50% hp, its still gunna be HS spam, only you now have lower HP and they are hitting just as hard.

I know, they’re clever aren’t they. :P And by better, I mean better in the bonus of lower HP HS spam.

Razarei.2809:

That is not the case. I played 30 games of PvP today so far, and in 24 of them I was the ONLY elementalist.

Why would I go sPVP with my elementalist, where I can only kill 8 nubbins at a time, when can go WvWvW and kill 800?

Razarei.2809:

Quote>

Actually it just became a little bit better.
Yes 100-50% got nerfed. But the 50-25% now does the same damage that you would take from 66-33%, and 25%-0% does 33-0%.
Changes? Its starts doing its damage on LOWER hp than it did before. So instead of having say 7k hp before they start hitting 5k each hit, you’re only going to have 5k.
Once you hit 50% hp, its still gunna be HS spam, only you now have lower HP and they are hitting just as hard.

I know, they’re clever aren’t they. :P

This is correct, but now you have to wait until your target is below 50%, giving your target more time to beat you down before you start your spamming. Now you only get 50% of time to pwn when before you had 66% of targets health to deal more damage.

Truga.5897:

Razarei.2809:

That is not the case. I played 30 games of PvP today so far, and in 24 of them I was the ONLY elementalist.

Why would I go sPVP with my elementalist, where I can only kill 8 nubbins at a time, when can go WvWvW and kill 800?

What food do you like to eat so I can put out request for people to stop feeding it to you?

Razarei.2809:

Truga.5897:

Razarei.2809:

That is not the case. I played 30 games of PvP today so far, and in 24 of them I was the ONLY elementalist.

Why would I go sPVP with my elementalist, where I can only kill 8 nubbins at a time, when can go WvWvW and kill 800?

What food do you like to eat so I can put out request for people to stop feeding it to you?

Now you’re just trolling

Phato.5831:

Razarei.2809:

Quote>

Actually it just became a little bit better.
Yes 100-50% got nerfed. But the 50-25% now does the same damage that you would take from 66-33%, and 25%-0% does 33-0%.
Changes? Its starts doing its damage on LOWER hp than it did before. So instead of having say 7k hp before they start hitting 5k each hit, you’re only going to have 5k.
Once you hit 50% hp, its still gunna be HS spam, only you now have lower HP and they are hitting just as hard.

I know, they’re clever aren’t they. :P

This is correct, but now you have to wait until your target is below 50%, giving your target more time to beat you down before you start your spamming. Now you only get 50% of time to pwn when before you had 66% of targets health to deal more damage.

Not for HS spammers that use it from the get go, and certainly not for haste HS spammers. <3

Razarei.2809:

Quote>

Actually it just became a little bit better.
Yes 100-50% got nerfed. But the 50-25% now does the same damage that you would take from 66-33%, and 25%-0% does 33-0%.
Changes? Its starts doing its damage on LOWER hp than it did before. So instead of having say 7k hp before they start hitting 5k each hit, you’re only going to have 5k.
Once you hit 50% hp, its still gunna be HS spam, only you now have lower HP and they are hitting just as hard.

I know, they’re clever aren’t they. :P And by better, I mean better in the bonus of lower HP HS spam.

I don’t see how that isn’t a nerf in any way. You deal less damage. Almost all the time. And the time you deal as much damage as before… well you deal as much damage as before. Meaning some damage was lowered while some remained the same. For no case the damage got increased. So how could the ability be better now…

But I guess I should just start overreading your comments.

Razarei.2809:

Phato.5831:

Razarei.2809:

Quote>

Actually it just became a little bit better.
Yes 100-50% got nerfed. But the 50-25% now does the same damage that you would take from 66-33%, and 25%-0% does 33-0%.
Changes? Its starts doing its damage on LOWER hp than it did before. So instead of having say 7k hp before they start hitting 5k each hit, you’re only going to have 5k.
Once you hit 50% hp, its still gunna be HS spam, only you now have lower HP and they are hitting just as hard.

I know, they’re clever aren’t they. :P

This is correct, but now you have to wait until your target is below 50%, giving your target more time to beat you down before you start your spamming. Now you only get 50% of time to pwn when before you had 66% of targets health to deal more damage.

Not for HS spammers that use it from the get go, and certainly not for haste HS spammers. <3

You’re missing the 20% nerf above 50%, spam will just use all their initiative and not accomplish much.

Phato.5831:

Razarei.2809:

Truga.5897:

Razarei.2809:

That is not the case. I played 30 games of PvP today so far, and in 24 of them I was the ONLY elementalist.

Why would I go sPVP with my elementalist, where I can only kill 8 nubbins at a time, when can go WvWvW and kill 800?

What food do you like to eat so I can put out request for people to stop feeding it to you?

Now you’re just trolling

Right, because he goes to PvP and kills 8 people at a time on his elementalist, or goes to WvW and kills 800. Yet I’m the troll? :|

I feel that isn’t the only troll comment by you.

Razarei.2809:

Phato.5831:

Razarei.2809:

Truga.5897:

Razarei.2809:

That is not the case. I played 30 games of PvP today so far, and in 24 of them I was the ONLY elementalist.

Why would I go sPVP with my elementalist, where I can only kill 8 nubbins at a time, when can go WvWvW and kill 800?

What food do you like to eat so I can put out request for people to stop feeding it to you?

Now you’re just trolling

Right, because he goes to PvP and kills 8 people at a time on his elementalist, or goes to WvW and kills 800. Yet I’m the troll? :|

Your being literal now which you were bashing for above, make up your mind chief.

Gelrod.1295:

Razarei.2809:

Quote>

Actually it just became a little bit better.
Yes 100-50% got nerfed. But the 50-25% now does the same damage that you would take from 66-33%, and 25%-0% does 33-0%.
Changes? Its starts doing its damage on LOWER hp than it did before. So instead of having say 7k hp before they start hitting 5k each hit, you’re only going to have 5k.
Once you hit 50% hp, its still gunna be HS spam, only you now have lower HP and they are hitting just as hard.

I know, they’re clever aren’t they. :P And by better, I mean better in the bonus of lower HP HS spam.

I don’t see how that isn’t a nerf in any way. You deal less damage. Almost all the time. And the time you deal as much damage as before… well you deal as much damage as before. Meaning some damage was lowered while some remained the same. For no case the damage got increased. So how could the ability be better now…

But I guess I should just start overreading your comments.

I didn’t say the damage got increased at any point, I claimed it wasn’t actually a nerf, but a restructure that is actually appealing to thieves who HS spam from the get go, more burst potential up until 50%.

Razarei.2809:

Truga.5897:

Razarei.2809:

That is not the case. I played 30 games of PvP today so far, and in 24 of them I was the ONLY elementalist.

Why would I go sPVP with my elementalist, where I can only kill 8 nubbins at a time, when can go WvWvW and kill 800?

What food do you like to eat so I can put out request for people to stop feeding it to you?

Babies. Cooked is great, but raw is fine too.

Razarei.2809:

Gelrod.1295:

Razarei.2809:

Quote>

Actually it just became a little bit better.
Yes 100-50% got nerfed. But the 50-25% now does the same damage that you would take from 66-33%, and 25%-0% does 33-0%.
Changes? Its starts doing its damage on LOWER hp than it did before. So instead of having say 7k hp before they start hitting 5k each hit, you’re only going to have 5k.
Once you hit 50% hp, its still gunna be HS spam, only you now have lower HP and they are hitting just as hard.

I know, they’re clever aren’t they. :P And by better, I mean better in the bonus of lower HP HS spam.

I don’t see how that isn’t a nerf in any way. You deal less damage. Almost all the time. And the time you deal as much damage as before… well you deal as much damage as before. Meaning some damage was lowered while some remained the same. For no case the damage got increased. So how could the ability be better now…

But I guess I should just start overreading your comments.

I didn’t say the damage got increased at any point, I claimed it wasn’t actually a nerf, but a restructure that is actually appealing to thieves who HS spam from the get go, more burst potential up until 50%.

Having spent many hours playing a thief, this isn’t appealing at all.

Razarei.2809:

Gelrod.1295:

Razarei.2809:

Quote>

Actually it just became a little bit better.
Yes 100-50% got nerfed. But the 50-25% now does the same damage that you would take from 66-33%, and 25%-0% does 33-0%.
Changes? Its starts doing its damage on LOWER hp than it did before. So instead of having say 7k hp before they start hitting 5k each hit, you’re only going to have 5k.
Once you hit 50% hp, its still gunna be HS spam, only you now have lower HP and they are hitting just as hard.

I know, they’re clever aren’t they. :P And by better, I mean better in the bonus of lower HP HS spam.

I don’t see how that isn’t a nerf in any way. You deal less damage. Almost all the time. And the time you deal as much damage as before… well you deal as much damage as before. Meaning some damage was lowered while some remained the same. For no case the damage got increased. So how could the ability be better now…

But I guess I should just start overreading your comments.

I didn’t say the damage got increased at any point, I claimed it wasn’t actually a nerf, but a restructure that is actually appealing to thieves who HS spam from the get go, more burst potential up until 50%.

This makes absolutely no sense. If you spam HS from the get go, you’re doing 20% less damage than you did before. You also don’t start doing the damage you used to until until your targets health hits the 50% mark, as opposed to the 66% mark.

This change is designed soley to harm those that spam HS at the beginning of a fight.

How do you figure that doing 20% less damage about 50% hp is “more burst potential” for HS spam?

Anyways, yeesh @ GW1 elementalist changes. Took 5 years, and they finally started in January.. and finished, well, yesterday. Ouch. That is a bit depressing.

Xriah.5743:

Razarei.2809:

Gelrod.1295:

Razarei.2809:

Quote>

Actually it just became a little bit better.
Yes 100-50% got nerfed. But the 50-25% now does the same damage that you would take from 66-33%, and 25%-0% does 33-0%.
Changes? Its starts doing its damage on LOWER hp than it did before. So instead of having say 7k hp before they start hitting 5k each hit, you’re only going to have 5k.
Once you hit 50% hp, its still gunna be HS spam, only you now have lower HP and they are hitting just as hard.

I know, they’re clever aren’t they. :P And by better, I mean better in the bonus of lower HP HS spam.

I don’t see how that isn’t a nerf in any way. You deal less damage. Almost all the time. And the time you deal as much damage as before… well you deal as much damage as before. Meaning some damage was lowered while some remained the same. For no case the damage got increased. So how could the ability be better now…

But I guess I should just start overreading your comments.

I didn’t say the damage got increased at any point, I claimed it wasn’t actually a nerf, but a restructure that is actually appealing to thieves who HS spam from the get go, more burst potential up until 50%.

This makes absolutely no sense. If you spam HS from the get go, you’re doing 20% less damage than you did before. You also don’t start doing the damage you used to until until your targets health hits the 50% mark, as opposed to the 66% mark.

This change is designed soley to harm those that spam HS at the beginning of a fight.

Yes 100-50% got nerfed by 20% damage, but the rest remain the same damage output.

But the 50-25% now does the same damage that you would take from 66-33%, and 25%-0% does 33-0%.

TL:DR, that 20% damage reduction on the 50-100% threshold, is cancelled by the increased thresholds that do the same damage as before.

My take on this whole business is:

I’m nowhere near as good as I could be if I played like I should (quit work, train like a madman etc), but I’m already faring pretty well in both pve and spvp. It’s not anything spectacular, but I can cope with dying because I keep screwing up my stuff.

And in WvW it’s just kill everything with meteor while amping up might to 20-30 anyway and wearing power/precision gear. And yes, having might stacked up that high is literally well above double normal damage, 5k+ per meteor isn’t even rare. Alas, you can’t do stacks that high solo. :<

That said, I’ve been dying less and less, and as I level up and get better traits, getting used to comboing, etc, PVE is getting easier, rather than more challenging, and sPVP is becoming more fun the longer I play. And the longer I’m playing, the more I’m loving it. I really hope ANet doesn’t change elementalist play style, because yeah, I’ll give you that. It’s really hard to play right. I certainly won’t mind buffs though!

Razarei.2809:

Xriah.5743:

Razarei.2809:

Gelrod.1295:

Razarei.2809:

Quote>

Actually it just became a little bit better.
Yes 100-50% got nerfed. But the 50-25% now does the same damage that you would take from 66-33%, and 25%-0% does 33-0%.
Changes? Its starts doing its damage on LOWER hp than it did before. So instead of having say 7k hp before they start hitting 5k each hit, you’re only going to have 5k.
Once you hit 50% hp, its still gunna be HS spam, only you now have lower HP and they are hitting just as hard.

I know, they’re clever aren’t they. :P And by better, I mean better in the bonus of lower HP HS spam.

I don’t see how that isn’t a nerf in any way. You deal less damage. Almost all the time. And the time you deal as much damage as before… well you deal as much damage as before. Meaning some damage was lowered while some remained the same. For no case the damage got increased. So how could the ability be better now…

But I guess I should just start overreading your comments.

I didn’t say the damage got increased at any point, I claimed it wasn’t actually a nerf, but a restructure that is actually appealing to thieves who HS spam from the get go, more burst potential up until 50%.

This makes absolutely no sense. If you spam HS from the get go, you’re doing 20% less damage than you did before. You also don’t start doing the damage you used to until until your targets health hits the 50% mark, as opposed to the 66% mark.

This change is designed soley to harm those that spam HS at the beginning of a fight.

Yes 100-50% got nerfed by 20% damage, but the rest remain the same damage output.

But the 50-25% now does the same damage that you would take from 66-33%, and 25%-0% does 33-0%.

TL:DR, that 20% damage reduction on the 50-100% threshold, is cancelled by the increased thresholds that do the same damage as before.

66%-33% is NOT greater than 50%-25%
33%-0% is NOT greater than 25%-0%

It’s basic math. Thieves have to get your health down farther before they start doing improved damage.

Razarei.2809:

Xriah.5743:

Razarei.2809:

Gelrod.1295:

Razarei.2809:

Quote>

Actually it just became a little bit better.
Yes 100-50% got nerfed. But the 50-25% now does the same damage that you would take from 66-33%, and 25%-0% does 33-0%.
Changes? Its starts doing its damage on LOWER hp than it did before. So instead of having say 7k hp before they start hitting 5k each hit, you’re only going to have 5k.
Once you hit 50% hp, its still gunna be HS spam, only you now have lower HP and they are hitting just as hard.

I know, they’re clever aren’t they. :P And by better, I mean better in the bonus of lower HP HS spam.

I don’t see how that isn’t a nerf in any way. You deal less damage. Almost all the time. And the time you deal as much damage as before… well you deal as much damage as before. Meaning some damage was lowered while some remained the same. For no case the damage got increased. So how could the ability be better now…

But I guess I should just start overreading your comments.

I didn’t say the damage got increased at any point, I claimed it wasn’t actually a nerf, but a restructure that is actually appealing to thieves who HS spam from the get go, more burst potential up until 50%.

This makes absolutely no sense. If you spam HS from the get go, you’re doing 20% less damage than you did before. You also don’t start doing the damage you used to until until your targets health hits the 50% mark, as opposed to the 66% mark.

This change is designed soley to harm those that spam HS at the beginning of a fight.

Yes 100-50% got nerfed by 20% damage, but the rest remain the same damage output.

But the 50-25% now does the same damage that you would take from 66-33%, and 25%-0% does 33-0%.

TL:DR, that 20% damage reduction on the 50-100% threshold, is cancelled by the increased thresholds that do the same damage as before.

Clearly by your assessment of this change to the thief, you are not able to come to valid, rational conclusions based on information given and therefore is trumping any credibility you have with your original post. How come you are the only one that can’t see how ridiculous you are coming across?

Truga.5897:

My take on this whole business is:

I’m nowhere near as good as I could be if I played like I should (quit work, train like a madman etc), but I’m already faring pretty well in both pve and spvp. It’s not anything spectacular, but I can cope with dying because I keep screwing up my stuff.

And in WvW it’s just kill everything with meteor while amping up might to 20-30 anyway and wearing power/precision gear. And yes, having might stacked up that high is literally well above double normal damage, 5k+ per meteor isn’t even rare. Alas, you can’t do stacks that high solo. :<

That said, I’ve been dying less and less, and as I level up and get better traits, getting used to comboing, etc, PVE is getting easier, rather than more challenging, and sPVP is becoming more fun the longer I play. And the longer I’m playing, the more I’m loving it. I really hope ANet doesn’t change elementalist play style, because yeah, I’ll give you that. It’s really hard to play right.

5k per meteor if it hits

XD

But I see what you’re saying, and I absolutely adore the elementalist class and the style of it at the moment, which is probably why I’m so passionate about it. I don’t want to see the style changed, but I’d like to see better traits, better stat scaling for defence and damage too.

Razarei.2809:

Yes 100-50% got nerfed by 20% damage, but the rest remain the same damage output.

But the 50-25% now does the same damage that you would take from 66-33%, and 25%-0% does 33-0%.

TL:DR, that 20% damage reduction on the 50-100% threshold, is cancelled by the increased thresholds that do the same damage as before.

You seriously need to retake elementary school math.

The thing with meteors is, in WvW it’ll hit. It always does. There’s just so many people on sieges it’s impossible not to hit something, unless the enemy is moving, in which case it means you’ve successfully defended/driven them away from defending. Sure, not every single one will hit, but I wouldn’t be surprised if over half do hit.

Ed: You’re basically a walking trebuchet in WvW.

Phato.5831:

Razarei.2809:

Xriah.5743:

Razarei.2809:

Gelrod.1295:

Razarei.2809:

Quote>

Actually it just became a little bit better.
Yes 100-50% got nerfed. But the 50-25% now does the same damage that you would take from 66-33%, and 25%-0% does 33-0%.
Changes? Its starts doing its damage on LOWER hp than it did before. So instead of having say 7k hp before they start hitting 5k each hit, you’re only going to have 5k.
Once you hit 50% hp, its still gunna be HS spam, only you now have lower HP and they are hitting just as hard.

I know, they’re clever aren’t they. :P And by better, I mean better in the bonus of lower HP HS spam.

I don’t see how that isn’t a nerf in any way. You deal less damage. Almost all the time. And the time you deal as much damage as before… well you deal as much damage as before. Meaning some damage was lowered while some remained the same. For no case the damage got increased. So how could the ability be better now…

But I guess I should just start overreading your comments.

I didn’t say the damage got increased at any point, I claimed it wasn’t actually a nerf, but a restructure that is actually appealing to thieves who HS spam from the get go, more burst potential up until 50%.

This makes absolutely no sense. If you spam HS from the get go, you’re doing 20% less damage than you did before. You also don’t start doing the damage you used to until until your targets health hits the 50% mark, as opposed to the 66% mark.

This change is designed soley to harm those that spam HS at the beginning of a fight.

Yes 100-50% got nerfed by 20% damage, but the rest remain the same damage output.

But the 50-25% now does the same damage that you would take from 66-33%, and 25%-0% does 33-0%.

TL:DR, that 20% damage reduction on the 50-100% threshold, is cancelled by the increased thresholds that do the same damage as before.

Clearly by your assessment of this change to the thief, you are not able to come to valid, rational conclusions based on information given and therefore is trumping any credibility you have with your original post. How come you are the only one that can’t see how ridiculous you are coming across?

Am I reading this wrong? Forgive me if I am, but it states that the 20% reduction is ONLY applied to the 50-100% threshold, yet the damage remains the same for the 0-50? But you get more time for increased damage with the new formula because it’s 0-25 not 0-33, and 25-50 not 33-66.

I’m probably just really confused right now

Razarei.2809:

Phato.5831:

Razarei.2809:

Xriah.5743:

Razarei.2809:

Gelrod.1295:

Razarei.2809:

Quote>

Actually it just became a little bit better.
Yes 100-50% got nerfed. But the 50-25% now does the same damage that you would take from 66-33%, and 25%-0% does 33-0%.
Changes? Its starts doing its damage on LOWER hp than it did before. So instead of having say 7k hp before they start hitting 5k each hit, you’re only going to have 5k.
Once you hit 50% hp, its still gunna be HS spam, only you now have lower HP and they are hitting just as hard.

I know, they’re clever aren’t they. :P And by better, I mean better in the bonus of lower HP HS spam.

I don’t see how that isn’t a nerf in any way. You deal less damage. Almost all the time. And the time you deal as much damage as before… well you deal as much damage as before. Meaning some damage was lowered while some remained the same. For no case the damage got increased. So how could the ability be better now…

But I guess I should just start overreading your comments.

I didn’t say the damage got increased at any point, I claimed it wasn’t actually a nerf, but a restructure that is actually appealing to thieves who HS spam from the get go, more burst potential up until 50%.

This makes absolutely no sense. If you spam HS from the get go, you’re doing 20% less damage than you did before. You also don’t start doing the damage you used to until until your targets health hits the 50% mark, as opposed to the 66% mark.

This change is designed soley to harm those that spam HS at the beginning of a fight.

Yes 100-50% got nerfed by 20% damage, but the rest remain the same damage output.

But the 50-25% now does the same damage that you would take from 66-33%, and 25%-0% does 33-0%.

TL:DR, that 20% damage reduction on the 50-100% threshold, is cancelled by the increased thresholds that do the same damage as before.

Clearly by your assessment of this change to the thief, you are not able to come to valid, rational conclusions based on information given and therefore is trumping any credibility you have with your original post. How come you are the only one that can’t see how ridiculous you are coming across?

Am I reading this wrong? Forgive me if I am, but it states that the 20% reduction is ONLY applied to the 50-100% threshold, yet the damage remains the same for the 0-50? But you get more time for increased damage with the new formula because it’s 0-25 not 0-33, and 25-50 not 33-66.

I’m probably just really confused right now

yes, you are reading it wrong. Before, the time you had was higher, because you basically dealt more damage from 66% down to 0%, now you only get 50% down to 0% to deal that higher damage, that is less time to do the damage. I think you are just reversing them in your head, thinking before maybe you had 33% to do damage and now have 50% which is not the case.

Razarei.2809:

Phato.5831:

Razarei.2809:

Xriah.5743:

Razarei.2809:

Gelrod.1295:

Razarei.2809:

Quote>

Actually it just became a little bit better.
Yes 100-50% got nerfed. But the 50-25% now does the same damage that you would take from 66-33%, and 25%-0% does 33-0%.
Changes? Its starts doing its damage on LOWER hp than it did before. So instead of having say 7k hp before they start hitting 5k each hit, you’re only going to have 5k.
Once you hit 50% hp, its still gunna be HS spam, only you now have lower HP and they are hitting just as hard.

I know, they’re clever aren’t they. :P And by better, I mean better in the bonus of lower HP HS spam.

I don’t see how that isn’t a nerf in any way. You deal less damage. Almost all the time. And the time you deal as much damage as before… well you deal as much damage as before. Meaning some damage was lowered while some remained the same. For no case the damage got increased. So how could the ability be better now…

But I guess I should just start overreading your comments.

I didn’t say the damage got increased at any point, I claimed it wasn’t actually a nerf, but a restructure that is actually appealing to thieves who HS spam from the get go, more burst potential up until 50%.

This makes absolutely no sense. If you spam HS from the get go, you’re doing 20% less damage than you did before. You also don’t start doing the damage you used to until until your targets health hits the 50% mark, as opposed to the 66% mark.

This change is designed soley to harm those that spam HS at the beginning of a fight.

Yes 100-50% got nerfed by 20% damage, but the rest remain the same damage output.

But the 50-25% now does the same damage that you would take from 66-33%, and 25%-0% does 33-0%.

TL:DR, that 20% damage reduction on the 50-100% threshold, is cancelled by the increased thresholds that do the same damage as before.

Clearly by your assessment of this change to the thief, you are not able to come to valid, rational conclusions based on information given and therefore is trumping any credibility you have with your original post. How come you are the only one that can’t see how ridiculous you are coming across?

Am I reading this wrong? Forgive me if I am, but it states that the 20% reduction is ONLY applied to the 50-100% threshold, yet the damage remains the same for the 0-50? But you get more time for increased damage with the new formula because it’s 0-25 not 0-33, and 25-50 not 33-66.

I’m probably just really confused right now

The only thing I can guess is that you don’t understand how heartseeker works. The skill does damage based on your target’s health, not the thief executing the skill. The thief’s health has nothing to do with the damage HS does. It’s based on who they’re hitting.

And back to the main point. Razarei, you getting all huffy because of a balance problem you percieve isn’t going to make the process go any faster.

Balance in a game is an incredibly delicate creature. While I understand first hand that the Ele could use a little love in both defense and offense, you can’t just make grand sweeping changes to classes and expect to get anywhere constructive. You’d just make the problem worse. We could use some help, but we’re not unplayable. You keep mentioning time and time again how good you are, so you can’t argue that point.

Just be patient and try to enjoy the game rather than come here with this attitude. All it does is make people ignore what your saying because of how your saying it.

Xriah.5743:

Razarei.2809:

Phato.5831:

Razarei.2809:

Xriah.5743:

Razarei.2809:

Gelrod.1295:

Razarei.2809:

Quote>

Actually it just became a little bit better.
Yes 100-50% got nerfed. But the 50-25% now does the same damage that you would take from 66-33%, and 25%-0% does 33-0%.
Changes? Its starts doing its damage on LOWER hp than it did before. So instead of having say 7k hp before they start hitting 5k each hit, you’re only going to have 5k.
Once you hit 50% hp, its still gunna be HS spam, only you now have lower HP and they are hitting just as hard.

I know, they’re clever aren’t they. :P And by better, I mean better in the bonus of lower HP HS spam.

I don’t see how that isn’t a nerf in any way. You deal less damage. Almost all the time. And the time you deal as much damage as before… well you deal as much damage as before. Meaning some damage was lowered while some remained the same. For no case the damage got increased. So how could the ability be better now…

But I guess I should just start overreading your comments.

I didn’t say the damage got increased at any point, I claimed it wasn’t actually a nerf, but a restructure that is actually appealing to thieves who HS spam from the get go, more burst potential up until 50%.

This makes absolutely no sense. If you spam HS from the get go, you’re doing 20% less damage than you did before. You also don’t start doing the damage you used to until until your targets health hits the 50% mark, as opposed to the 66% mark.

This change is designed soley to harm those that spam HS at the beginning of a fight.

Yes 100-50% got nerfed by 20% damage, but the rest remain the same damage output.

But the 50-25% now does the same damage that you would take from 66-33%, and 25%-0% does 33-0%.

TL:DR, that 20% damage reduction on the 50-100% threshold, is cancelled by the increased thresholds that do the same damage as before.

Clearly by your assessment of this change to the thief, you are not able to come to valid, rational conclusions based on information given and therefore is trumping any credibility you have with your original post. How come you are the only one that can’t see how ridiculous you are coming across?

Am I reading this wrong? Forgive me if I am, but it states that the 20% reduction is ONLY applied to the 50-100% threshold, yet the damage remains the same for the 0-50? But you get more time for increased damage with the new formula because it’s 0-25 not 0-33, and 25-50 not 33-66.

I’m probably just really confused right now

The only thing I can guess is that you don’t understand how heartseeker works. The skill does damage based on your target’s health, not the thief executing the skill. The thief’s health has nothing to do with the damage HS does. It’s based on who they’re hitting.

And back to the main point. Razarei, you getting all huffy because of a balance problem you percieve isn’t going to make the process go any faster.

Balance in a game is an incredibly delicate creature. While I understand first hand that the Ele could use a little love in both defense and offense, you can’t just make grand sweeping changes to classes and expect to get anywhere constructive. You’d just make the problem worse. We could use some help, but we’re not unplayable. You keep mentioning time and time again how good you are, so you can’t argue that point.

Just be patient and try to enjoy the game rather than come here with this attitude. All it does is make people ignore what your saying because of how your saying it.

I’ve never said we’re unplayable, and I enjoy my class, and I’ve given plenty of constructive criticism on numerous threads. I know balance is delicate, but when things are so glaringly obvious you’d of thought people would have picked up on them. Me being good has no reflection on the elementalist class on a whole, because other classes can do it with less effort, more room for error, coupled with more damage and survivability.

I’m playing the game, I’m just trying to make a point, that’s all.

As for the whole HS thing, I know it’s the targets health, but the way I read it made me see it like this:

for arguments sake values are direct increases.
0-33 33-66 66-100
0-25 25-50 50-100

0-33 = 100 more damage 0-25 = 100 more damage
33-66 = 200 more damage 25-50 = 200 more damage
66-100 = 300 more damage 50-100 = 240 more damage

8% + 16% reduced window, for a total of 20% reduction of damage once you get to 50-100.

It obviously doesn’t work like this though by what you guys are saying so I’ll leave it alone now, and apologies.

EDIT: I’m a pleb, I read the values on the heartseeker skill backwards. LOL

Razarei.2809:

As for the whole HS thing, I know it’s the targets health, but the way I read it made me see it like this:

for arguments sake values are direct increases.
0-33 33-66 66-100
0-25 25-50 50-100

0-33 = 100 more damage 0-25 = 100 more damage
33-66 = 200 more damage 25-50 = 200 more damage
66-100 = 300 more damage 50-100 = 240 more damage

8% + 16% reduced window, for a total of 20% reduction of damage once you get to 50-100.

It obviously doesn’t work like this though by what you guys are saying so I’ll leave it alone now, and apologies.

EDIT: I’m a pleb, I read the values on the heartseeker skill backwards. LOL

try this

EDITED:
Before After
0-33 = 300 more damage 0-25 = 300 more damage
33-66 = 200 more damage 25-50 = 200 more damage
66-100 = normal 50-100 = normal – 20% less

I beat you to the edit by about two minutes. XD

Razarei.2809:

I beat you to the edit by about two minutes. XD

HAHA, yes you did

Yes, but you didn’t start this thread with any constructive criticism. You pretty much said no one plays Ele, a Guardian admitted he was overpowered, what are you waiting for?

Your point mentions something that I think a lot of people are forgetting amidst their Ele woes. Guardians seem like they’re a bit on the OP side, mainly because they still have nasty burst damage amidst their incredible defense. This hit’s us the hardest because of how weak we are defensively.

Keep in mind that a nerf for other classes is a buff for us. It’s quite possible they like where Ele’s currently are and are preparing to tone down some of the other classes to be on par with us.

Xriah.5743:

Yes, but you didn’t start this thread with any constructive criticism. You pretty much said no one plays Ele, a Guardian admitted he was overpowered, what are you waiting for?

Yeah, people play elementalists for many reasons. However, there is a major lack of elementalists in both S and TPVP. Heck, people specifically state elementalists aren’t allowed in TPVP because they could do better with any other class. As for the Guardian, no one should be able to sit still in an area, type to the map, while doing a keypress every 3-5 seconds, and kill teams.

I admit, this is down to ignorance, but it is also a sign. You see nothing but Thieves, Mesmers, Engineers and warriors in their abundance in S/TPVP but this is a direct result of how they fare around this game’s mechanics.

Your point mentions something that I think a lot of people are forgetting amidst their Ele woes. Guardians seem like they’re a bit on the OP side, mainly because they still have nasty burst damage amidst their incredible defense. This hit’s us the hardest because of how weak we are defensively.

I don’t get what you’re getting at here. Everyone bears this in mind, but it’s not guardians that are the problem. We’re outclassed

Keep in mind that a nerf for other classes is a buff for us. It’s quite possible they like where Ele’s currently are and are preparing to tone down some of the other classes to be on par with us.

Yeah I hear what you’re saying, except other classes (so far) aren’t really getting nerfed, they’re getting adjustments, particularly favourably. Either way, I’d like to be in a state where the stigma around elementalists ceases to exist