Guild Wars 2

Azel.4786:

Copying this here from the guardian forum due to the truthiness of the statement.

Test.8734:

But it’s kinda funny, right?

Chronomancer & Reaper:

• Popular specializations (see the poll that was posted in the HoT forum)
• Get a nice list of BWE feedback changes
• The same developer
• And said developer bothers to post in the forum of the other two specializations, too

Tempest & Hunter:

• Almost universally hared (see the same poll, or anwhere else really)
• Names don’t fit the specialization (“high level” my small cat)
• List of BWE feedback changes…? MIA.
• The same developer
• And said developer has not posted in the specializations’ forums after the BWE

ArenaNet, could you please let Robert design all other specializations, please?

Just add though that it doesn’t have to be the same guy working on Chronomaner and Reaper to not overload him, but it needed to be someone that is actually engaged, understand the classes he/she is working on and talks with the community.

Not saying to fire the Tempest / DH dev guy, but just give him another position and put someone that is more engaged and understands these classes better in charge.

Anet can pull it off, but they need to work hard. As people are saying, here it’s not a number issue. The overload mechanic is just not working well with the way the class function.

Overloading should make you powerful, it should synergyse with the class mechanic, for example:
Overloading removes the cooldown on your attunements for a short duration of time. (Instead of increasing them, like the current version).

We do not even need the spinning tornado animations that do little damage that we can do in other ways, or the water bubble, we need something that improves the way the class plays at the base level.

FrownyClown.8402:

Who cares about the name?

Looks like many people cares. The problem isn’t in the name itself, the problem is that our ‘elite’ specialization provides almost nothing related to this name.

thetwothousand.5049:

Khenzy.9348:

Eles don’t really need another melee set. The class needs a weapon with both range and melee. If you get a full melee oriented weapon skill set with sword, you’ll just complain about lack of range versatility due to lack of weapon swap and skill design in general.

On topic: By his wording on the Guardian forum’s post I thought the write up was going to take a few more minutes, not days. Oh well, take your time Karl (or whoever), I guess.

Its nice that you think you know my views %100. But no I don’t particularly think ele needs better versatility in regards to range right now. Staff is the most viable weapon the ele has across game modes and has a 1200 range that still works great at melee range. And while I agree that someday getting a weapon that splits range and melee between the attunments will be an awesome and unique addition I think that needs to be a 2-hand weapon, something that definitely won’t come from Tempest.

I stand completely by my stance that sword was and still should be the right weapon for Tempest and will open up new game play the way only a main hand weapon can.

Well… yeah, I know what you mean, but it’s a matter of play-tyles, not entirely of what it’s affective at some particular range. Let it be sword, a two hander, whatever, as long as the skill set is worth it.

thetwothousand.5049:

Its nice that you think you know my views %100.

Btw, are you being sarcastic? I can’t really tell. Anyways, what you quoted from me was just a general opinion, not directed towards anyone in particular.

Khenzy.9348:

thetwothousand.5049:

Khenzy.9348:

Eles don’t really need another melee set. The class needs a weapon with both range and melee. If you get a full melee oriented weapon skill set with sword, you’ll just complain about lack of range versatility due to lack of weapon swap and skill design in general.

On topic: By his wording on the Guardian forum’s post I thought the write up was going to take a few more minutes, not days. Oh well, take your time Karl (or whoever), I guess.

You quoted me

Its nice that you think you know my views %100. But no I don’t particularly think ele needs better versatility in regards to range right now. Staff is the most viable weapon the ele has across game modes and has a 1200 range that still works great at melee range. And while I agree that someday getting a weapon that splits range and melee between the attunments will be an awesome and unique addition I think that needs to be a 2-hand weapon, something that definitely won’t come from Tempest.

I stand completely by my stance that sword was and still should be the right weapon for Tempest and will open up new game play the way only a main hand weapon can.

Well… yeah, I know what you mean, but it’s a matter of play-tyles, not entirely of what it’s affective at some particular range. Let it be sword, a two hander, whatever, as long as the skill set is worth it.

What I would love to see happen actually is the first patch post HoT release be the type of patch WoW releases. New stuff for the classes, a new instance of challenging content, new pvp rewards ext. Only instead of new specs each class gets one of 3 brand new 2-hand weapons. Bring out the two biggest fans requests, great ax and land spears, and then crossbows or something. Give ele a spear with Fire and Water skills being ranged, and Air and Earth being the melee ones. Give it some sweet animations like what Revenant got with its staff skills, it’d be awesome.

What do you guys think about this, if (just if) warhorn gets replaced with a sword:

Sword skills:

• Fire
  -chain AA, slashing with fiery animations, last AA will throw fiery sword at your foe, burning him – 150 range, 3rd AA 600 range
  -Throw fire projectiles at your foes, dealing huge dmg (animation similar to guard’s Zealot’s Defense, but with fiery projectiles and without that barrier) – 600 range
  -spin around (just 1x, not 100x like an idiot with fire overload), creating wave of fire that burns foes, gain 1 sec of retalation for each foe struck – radius 240
• Water
  -chain AA, slashing with ice animations, each hit heals you, last one launches small water wave, which heals nearby allies and inflicts weakness to enemies. – 150 range, 3rd AA 180 radius
  -Leap to target area, which grants regeneration and cures 1 condition from nearby allies, deals little damage to enemies – 600 range, 200 radius, leap finisher
  -Thrust your sword into the ground, creating ice blade in target location (similar animation to mesmer’s gs skill 3), damaging and chilling enemies – 900 range, 240 radius, blast finisher
• Air
  -chain AA, slashing with lightning (or windy) animations, last one sends a lightning bolt to nearby foes (acts like ele’s staff air 1, but weaker, similar to the one Mai Trin is doing) – 150 range, 3rd AA 400 range
  -Strike your foes with flurry of lightning (or windy) strikes, each strike applies 1 stack of vulnerability (Animation similar to war’s Flurry or mesmer’s Blurred frenzy, but with lightning or windy theme) – 150 range
  -Throw lightning sword at your foe, blinding him. If the sword successfully hits, teleport to that foe and gain swiftness – 900 range
• Earth
  -chain AA, slashing with dust/rocky themed strikes, 2nd and 3rd strike bleeds your foe, 3rd one also cripples for 1 sec – 150 range
  -Surround your sword with rocks and use it to block next attack. If attack is blocked, you can throw remains of that rocks to your the attacker, blinding him and foes around – throwing 900 range, projectile finisher
  -Send out a wave of rock spikes ahead of you, crippling and bleeding foes – 900 range

I think something like this can work, it is a melee range, but also provides some mid range abilities and mobility (still they should fix scepter too)
PS: this is just to the weapon issue, not the rest issues

Avador.8934:

What do you guys think about this, if (just if) warhorn gets replaced with a sword:

Sword skills:

• Fire
  -chain AA, slashing with fiery animations, last AA will throw fiery sword at your foe, burning him – 150 range, 3rd AA 600 range
  -Throw fire projectiles at your foes, dealing huge dmg (animation similar to guard’s Zealot’s Defense, but with fiery projectiles and without that barrier) – 600 range
  -spin around (just 1x, not 100x like an idiot with fire overload), creating wave of fire that burns foes, gain 1 sec of retalation for each foe struck – radius 240
• Water
  -chain AA, slashing with ice animations, each hit heals you, last one launches small water wave, which heals nearby allies and inflicts weakness to enemies. – 150 range, 3rd AA 180 radius
  -Leap to target area, which grants regeneration and cures 1 condition from nearby allies, deals little damage to enemies – 600 range, 200 radius, leap finisher
  -Thrust your sword into the ground, creating ice blade in target location (similar animation to mesmer’s gs skill 3), damaging and chilling enemies – 900 range, 240 radius, blast finisher
• Air
  -chain AA, slashing with lightning (or windy) animations, last one sends a lightning bolt to nearby foes (acts like ele’s staff air 1, but weaker, similar to the one Mai Trin is doing) – 150 range, 3rd AA 400 range
  -Strike your foes with flurry of lightning (or windy) strikes, each strike applies 1 stack of vulnerability (Animation similar to war’s Flurry or mesmer’s Blurred frenzy, but with lightning or windy theme) – 150 range
  -Throw lightning sword at your foe, blinding him. If the sword successfully hits, teleport to that foe and gain swiftness – 900 range
• Earth
  -chain AA, slashing with dust/rocky themed strikes, 2nd and 3rd strike bleeds your foe, 3rd one also cripples for 1 sec – 150 range
  -Surround your sword with rocks and use it to block next attack. If attack is blocked, you can throw remains of that rocks to your the attacker, blinding him and foes around – throwing 900 range, projectile finisher
  -Send out a wave of rock spikes ahead of you, crippling and bleeding foes – 900 range

I think something like this can work, it is a melee range, but also provides some mid range abilities and mobility (still they should fix scepter too)
PS: this is just to the weapon issue, not the rest issues

It’s melee. I would prefer a new long range option. Besides that, just as a concept, it’s like grabbing sword skills from other professions with an elemental sauce over it. It’s not bad, but Anet should be capable of getting some more creative ideas in an upcoming elite spec.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there are a lot of changes incoming, it doesn’t hurt to stay optimistic about the Tempest.

Cyan.6904:

It’s melee. I would prefer a new long range option. Besides that, just as a concept, it’s like grabbing sword skills from other professions with an elemental sauce over it. It’s not bad, but Anet should be capable of getting some more creative ideas in an upcoming elite spec.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there are a lot of changes incoming, it doesn’t hurt to stay optimistic about the Tempest.

For a long ranged bow weapon, I’d aim to make it predominately single target perhaps with a unique weapon mechanic that gives temporary AoE. If the set was made with some limits, the damage might be good to ramp up but disengage would be its weakness.

I still dont see the big desire for melee cleave. I mean what difference does it make if all your attunements have an auto attack that does the same thing but with different graphics and just having 1 or 2 attunemments with cleave autos and use the others for different functions?

Leo G.4501:

I still dont see the big desire for melee cleave. I mean what difference does it make if all your attunements have an auto attack that does the same thing but with different graphics and just having 1 or 2 attunemments with cleave autos and use the others for different functions?

For me at least, its a desire to minimize attunement camping. Obviously swapping attunement’s is currently, and should be, the basis of ele rotations but right now the goal is always to manage CDs to end up in the spec that give you your best auto. With staff unless you are in water for heals/IB burst you stay in fire for the auto. Same with scep/dagger builds but with air. If sword, or any new main hand weapon, came with good equalized autos across all four attunements the rotation would play to the strengths of our CD skills not the auto, like every other profession.

The entire attunement camping idea is bad anyway. It would be much more interesting to have an overload that accelerate the speed of our class mechanic instead of slowing it down. With the new Alacrity boon there is no excuse not to do this instead, beside a clear lack of imagination and overall purpose in regards to the elite profession.

Xillllix.3485:

The entire attunement camping idea is bad anyway. It would be much more interesting to have an overload that accelerate the speed of our class mechanic instead of slowing it down. With the new Alacrity boon there is no excuse not to do this instead, beside a clear lack of imagination and overall purpose in regards to the elite profession.

Then what’s the point of the non-elite spec?

Leo G.4501:

Xillllix.3485:

The entire attunement camping idea is bad anyway. It would be much more interesting to have an overload that accelerate the speed of our class mechanic instead of slowing it down. With the new Alacrity boon there is no excuse not to do this instead, beside a clear lack of imagination and overall purpose in regards to the elite profession.

Then what’s the point of the non-elite spec?

Look at Chronomancer. Do you seriously think after the expansion any of them will run without the double shatter?

Xillllix.3485:

Leo G.4501:

Xillllix.3485:

The entire attunement camping idea is bad anyway. It would be much more interesting to have an overload that accelerate the speed of our class mechanic instead of slowing it down. With the new Alacrity boon there is no excuse not to do this instead, beside a clear lack of imagination and overall purpose in regards to the elite profession.

Then what’s the point of the non-elite spec?

Look at Chronomancer. Do you seriously think after the expansion any of them will run without the double shatter?

I haven’t tested Chronomancer. How it interacts with the base profession and how it’s meant to interact could not be in line. Until we see more elites ands see they are all pure upgrades of the base profession, your point is moot.

Leo G.4501:

Xillllix.3485:

Leo G.4501:

Xillllix.3485:

The entire attunement camping idea is bad anyway. It would be much more interesting to have an overload that accelerate the speed of our class mechanic instead of slowing it down. With the new Alacrity boon there is no excuse not to do this instead, beside a clear lack of imagination and overall purpose in regards to the elite profession.

Then what’s the point of the non-elite spec?

Look at Chronomancer. Do you seriously think after the expansion any of them will run without the double shatter?

I haven’t tested Chronomancer. How it interacts with the base profession and how it’s meant to interact could not be in line. Until we see more elites ands see they are all pure upgrades of the base profession, your point is moot.

Basically: It has crazy combos that allow for a lot of creativity, allows for more team support via Alicrity, but also provides more sustained damage with the extra Shatters(although I think that means lesser Burst damage upon having to drop one of the damage lines and/or less sustain on dropping Chaos/Inspiration, but don’t quote me on that) AND it has a new condition(Slow) to play with in their more Condi-Focused builds.

Does Tempest allow any of that? You’d be lying if you said “Yes”.

The Great Al.2546:

I think the real mistake was deciding on close range group support, since we already have that. Making this build ’on par
or even slightly better than the existing options will not really change the reception, because after 3 years we were actually hoping for (and promised) a new role.

Spot on. Current tempest targets the role that D/D and D/F already occupy. The whole concept of (yet another) close-range group support needs a rework.

Leo G.4501:

Then what’s the point of the non-elite spec?

I’ll play the card you folks like to use.

Won’t we get more elite specs in the future? It will be all about a choice of that one elite spec and 2 core specs.

I still believe they shouldn’t have abandoned the concept of Sword, we don’t need another D/x build or something competing with offhand Dagger or Focus.

I still love the idea of that one data-mined sword skill in fire (think it was from the auto attack chain) where you gained endurance on hit. Overloads could have been enchantments/buff that empower your sword (or other main hands), for example fire giving you might on hit but right now I’ll settle for Tempest just being half decent.

Well i would also love to do a balace packet for eles + tempest. I have a lot of experience with game design/balance but i doupt this will happen. While i can understand that devs don´t write here i am not a fan of that and don´t do it myself.
And sword is gone. Also Tempest seems nailed. Its useless to rant on it. Now its time to make the best out of it by changing numbers or maybe slighly changing traits/skills without touching graphics.

Greetings

Wolf

Wolfric.9380:

Well i would also love to do a balace packet for eles + tempest. I have a lot of experience with game design/balance but i doupt this will happen. While i can understand that devs don´t write here i am not a fan of that and don´t do it myself.
And sword is gone. Also Tempest seems nailed. Its useless to rant on it. Now its time to make the best out of it by changing numbers or maybe slighly changing traits/skills without touching graphics.

Greetings

Wolf

There is a thread on this already. it isn’t a numbers problem. the concept was dead on arrival

I’m not sure where people are getting the idea that reaper was so great… it was actually pretty terrible, and would never be accepted into groups.

However the devs have addressed nearly ALL the issues with at least some change which I think will help it immensely in the next beta weekend.

Will it be super OP meta like ele is? Probably not, but hopefully we won’t see any “zerk only, no reaper” groups like we currently see with necro.

I think it is safe to say they will at least try to address the issues that came up with tempest to make it just as good as base ele is.

I know that the concept is not fittign the eles four element playstyle nor is it offering really new things but i doubt that there will be a complet overhaul. So shouting for that won´t be heared. But tweaking to make it fit can be done.

They can easily do a lot more than tweaking. Eg: removing the support aspect and making Tempest more about control and/or damage. At least that would differentiate it from effectively duplicating D/D & D/F as it does now.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I’m not sure where people are getting the idea that reaper was so great… it was actually pretty terrible, and would never be accepted into groups.

However the devs have addressed nearly ALL the issues with at least some change which I think will help it immensely in the next beta weekend.

Will it be super OP meta like ele is? Probably not, but hopefully we won’t see any “zerk only, no reaper” groups like we currently see with necro.

I think it is safe to say they will at least try to address the issues that came up with tempest to make it just as good as base ele is.

It’s not that the Reaper didn’t have issues or anything, it was just really fun and the issues weren’t really with the idea of the Reaper, but rather numbers. It didn’t get the group support Necros wanted, but at the very least, it looks amazing for solo play so I’m definitely going to try it out(and I think only high level fractals actually care if you play a Necro; not like you don’t dish out decent DPS, it’s just the group support that’s weak). Robert has also said he wants to tackle some of Base Necro’s issues(like Scepter and Axe) and that will also improve the Reaper. They also actually acknowledged the problems Rise! had and gave them a brand new Minion to play with.

Robert did a great job with those changes, but unfortunately, the Tempest would need even bigger changes to not be fundamentally flawed. It would help if we got some more info, and at least Robert came here to give us some re-assurance, but the only way to “calm the storm” is to get our BWE post.

Are these changes to be released today? Does anyone know?

The changes are posted in the sticky above. Basically they gave us sandsquall as a blast finisher, and buffed the damage of a few warhorn skills considerably, buffed the damage of the overlaods considerably, and buffed the heal power scaling of water overload by 400%.

nearlight.3064:

The changes are posted in the sticky above. Basically they gave us sandsquall as a blast finisher, and buffed the damage of a few warhorn skills considerably, buffed the damage of the overlaods considerably, and buffed the heal power scaling of water overload by 400%.

I wish it wasn’t posted because that was a terrible troll post by ANET.

nearlight.3064:

The changes are posted in the sticky above. Basically they gave us sandsquall as a blast finisher, and buffed the damage of a few warhorn skills considerably, buffed the damage of the overlaods considerably, and buffed the heal power scaling of water overload by 400%.

LOL just saw the sticky… that’s ridiculous. Not a single trait or utility change… and Rebound is still unchanged… Anet clearly has to be trolling us.

nearlight.3064:

The changes are posted in the sticky above. Basically they gave us sandsquall as a blast finisher, and buffed the damage of a few warhorn skills considerably, buffed the damage of the overlaods considerably, and buffed the heal power scaling of water overload by 400%.

DAMAGE IS NOT THE CORE PROBLEM.