Guild Wars 2

For once I feel like I can do everything I was 2-trait points short before.

I really want to say Thank You to whoever balanced Eles out. Especially the ones who made Arcane tree so balanced out. I think this one had the most changes and I really like the options I have in all 3 major trait lines.

TBH I’m in a spot where I don’t know which Trait line to replace for the future Tempest. Which IMO means you guys did a good job!

It is but it feels like there are more builds to be made but old standers ideals are holding them back.

Overall I’m rather saddened that 2 weeks after almost all builds that seem to come out viable are water/arcane/x celestial again

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Overall I’m rather saddened that 2 weeks after almost all builds that seem to come out viable are water/arcane/x celestial again

Well I did a good Celestial Burning build (modification of WP’s Sinister Burning Ele). Right now I’m running a full bunker-healing build with Sentinel’s and Runes of the Grove. It’s very fun to play as an Ele. I don’t think people want to share right now.

I think ele is in a good spot, but I also think that people are using new builds just because the revamp kinda forces them to. Those builds would be viable in soloq even before the patch imo. On the other hand, I think on competitive ele it will always be some form of cantrip d/d or d/f spec dominating, which is the spec that’s really good atm.

I mean were in a strong place as long as you run celest and water/arcane so yeah. if you call that extream lack of build diversity a “good place”, being where we were since beta, then yeah were doing GREAT!

Can’t really complain, we are very strong in both pvp and pve currently…def doing better than alot of other professions.

I currently feel like ele’s damage is too much. The way that things are in level 80 maps is pretty ridiculous. My friend with me was able to hit over 10-12k meteors on mossman without bolt to the heart… lol.

I also am not very pleased with the earth traitline and feel that if they didn’t remove the stone splinters trait, LH builds wouldn’t be so bad in PvE.

I can’t comment from the PvP scene but there are some PvE related problems that I wish could be fixed but they don’t balance around PvE at all so it’s tough luck I guess.

I feel the cooldowns could be adjusted better to fit within the DD rotation of about 15 seconds, meaning changing them to 15, 30 or 45 seconds and then buffing or nerfing the effect accordingly, but otherwise I still enjoy Ele very much, even more so now that we’re doing more damage.

Eles are soooo good now that I started playing mine after a while. Unless the elite specializations from warrior, thief or ranger are not attractive enough, I’ll be maining this one, at least until a significant balance pass settle things down to a little less crazy level (in terms of PvP, specially).

i don’t think anything has changed – if you want to build optimally for WVW or PVP, you’re still stuck with water+arcane+cantrips. 3rd trait line feels fairly optional, so i guess that’s something.

IMO Ele balancing will continue to suck until they stop making the water + arcane lines not mandatory. The best way to do this is make Ele Attunement baseline, and either make other utilities offer equivalent survivability to cantrips, and/or move the cantrip traits out of water.

I note also that glyphs and conjures continue to suck as much as they always have.

So in summary, nearly half our traits are mandatory and half our utilities suck, so no, Ele may be in an OK place when using the cele/water/arcane build but Ele balance is overall still just as bad as it was 3 years ago.

people will be quick to cry nerf against classes like Ele for some reason but I honestly believe it’s one of the few classes that is in balance, viable if not optimal in all game modes and one of the most engaging and fun to play. People will complain about this or that(rightfully so at times. Cheers to the community getting through to the devs about the arcane attunement changes ) but compared to the other classes I’m very happy with where we are right now. I just hope we get sword over horn!

scerevisiae.1972:

i don’t think anything has changed – if you want to build optimally for WVW or PVP, you’re still stuck with water+arcane+cantrips. 3rd trait line feels fairly optional, so i guess that’s something.

IMO Ele balancing will continue to suck until they stop making the water + arcane lines not mandatory. The best way to do this is make Ele Attunement baseline, and either make other utilities offer equivalent survivability to cantrips, and/or move the cantrip traits out of water.

I note also that glyphs and conjures continue to suck as much as they always have.

So in summary, nearly half our traits are mandatory and half our utilities suck, so no, Ele may be in an OK place when using the cele/water/arcane build but Ele balance is overall still just as bad as it was 3 years ago.

I’ll have to address this a bit.

In WvW I can now run a great damage build with Fire/Air/Arcane (can even switch Arcane for Earth or Water) or go with a more melee bunker spec so I don’t think you’ve explored Eles enough (as far as WvW potential goes). Yeah Armor of Earth/Mist Form might seem mandatory but they’re there to give you some baseline protection if things go south. Your damage surely comes from the weapon skills.

Glyphs have now a better synergy with condi builds then they did before which make condi Eles much better (Yes they don’t have to rely on Cantrips sicne they benefit more from Glyphs or Arcane skills).

I’ve never been a fan of Conjures anyway so I wouldn’t comment on them. IMO they diminish the whole purpose of Ele Swapping but they do serve a purpose whether it’s Might stacking or Deep Freezing a boss or just spamming skill 1 with LH. I do feel a Conjurer is a wrongly name for this sort of Ele because I fail to see it.

I would also add that I hope Ele’s Elite get the Guardian Elite loving (a complete redoing), but other then that I can see all of the Utility skills serving a purpose. Signet build might be needing some buffing or more trait relocating (something like they did with Guardian traits)

Still the same crap with water/arcana necessity in pvp.

I have two Eles. I play one celestial staff and the other does might stacking. Life is good.

I don’t think eles are in a good place, I’ve been playing my guards and made a warrior, both these classes are much more rewarding for much less effort.

Xillllix.3485:

I don’t think eles are in a good place, I’ve been playing my guards and made a warrior, both these classes are much more rewarding for much less effort.

I always tell new people to start off with a warrior or guardian (esp warrior)…b.c they are very simple to play and pay off with easy results…I don’t find that rewarding though and rather boring to play(IMO), which is why I haven’t touched either of them for over a month….to each his own =S…

Blooperz.6145:

Xillllix.3485:

I don’t think eles are in a good place, I’ve been playing my guards and made a warrior, both these classes are much more rewarding for much less effort.

I always tell new people to start off with a warrior or guardian (esp warrior)…b.c they are very simple to play and pay off with easy results…I don’t find that rewarding though and rather boring to play(IMO), which is why I haven’t touched either of them for over a month….to each his own =S…

I started to play my guard and war just recently after the patch, after getting bursted one too many times. What I can say is that on war or guard:
1- I don’t get bursted down even if I am terrible at those classes
2- I get almost as many kills, roughly
3- I can still burst people down on guard, I do amazing damage on war (won 1v2 on war with rampage)
4- I realize that eles have their strength obviously, but specially when they bunker up.

I love what they did to ele. I can now easily ditch arcana for fire while still going for zerk gear in pvp, roaming, gvg or zerg with my staff and I love it.

Nabuko Darayon.9645:

In WvW I can now run a great damage build with Fire/Air/Arcane (can even switch Arcane for Earth or Water) or go with a more melee bunker spec so I don’t think you’ve explored Eles enough (as far as WvW potential goes). Yeah Armor of Earth/Mist Form might seem mandatory but they’re there to give you some baseline protection if things go south. Your damage surely comes from the weapon skills.

You assume too much. I tried no arcane/water, it’s only slightly less damage than no arcane/water, but it’s way less survivable.

Glyphs have now a better synergy with condi builds then they did before which make condi Eles much better (Yes they don’t have to rely on Cantrips sicne they benefit more from Glyphs or Arcane skills).

You lost all credibility with me right there. Burning is pointless in WVW for anything bigger than 5v5. Ele has access to too few condis to sustain reasonable damage in WVW 5+, group condi clears are too numerous and too effective.

Glyphs (and signets and conjures) are as crap as they have ever been.

So I have to reiterate: 2/5 (40%) of our traits are effectively mandatory, and 3/5 (60%) of our utilities are effectively useless. I don’t see how anyone could say Ele is in a good place.

scerevisiae.1972:

Nabuko Darayon.9645:

In WvW I can now run a great damage build with Fire/Air/Arcane (can even switch Arcane for Earth or Water) or go with a more melee bunker spec so I don’t think you’ve explored Eles enough (as far as WvW potential goes). Yeah Armor of Earth/Mist Form might seem mandatory but they’re there to give you some baseline protection if things go south. Your damage surely comes from the weapon skills.

You assume too much. I tried no arcane/water, it’s only slightly less damage than no arcane/water, but it’s way less survivable.

Glyphs have now a better synergy with condi builds then they did before which make condi Eles much better (Yes they don’t have to rely on Cantrips sicne they benefit more from Glyphs or Arcane skills).

You lost all credibility with me right there. Burning is pointless in WVW for anything bigger than 5v5. Ele has access to too few condis to sustain reasonable damage in WVW 5+, group condi clears are too numerous and too effective.

Glyphs (and signets and conjures) are as crap as they have ever been.

So I have to reiterate: 2/5 (40%) of our traits are effectively mandatory, and 3/5 (60%) of our utilities are effectively useless. I don’t see how anyone could say Ele is in a good place.

You must understand thatnot all skills are viable in all 3 modes of the game. Obviously in a zerg situation condi ele won’t do much because we don’t have that many conditions to spam crazy like necro can, but in smaller areas like PvP maps or roaming condi Eles are quite viable (not to mention on world bosses and other aspect of pve).

Every profession has it’s standard WvW build that works in that type of situation. It’s not like other professions have so much WvW build diversity.

Ele is in a fairly good place right now. Water and Arcana are still pretty much mandatory, but I see variation in the third trait line choice… Earth, Air, and it’s possible to make a (slightly gimmicky) Fire build.

But every class is, to an extent, pushed towards at least one trait line as being indispensable. Any build that didn’t begin from that trait line was gimmicky, and would only work in certain conditions. When the meta would change, those conditions would no longer be present, and the build would fall out of use.

Anet need to make evasive arcana and elemental enchantment as baseline, then I’ll be happy. If not, we’re still stuck with Water – Arcane – x with Cele amulet in order to be competitive. Anything else just won’t cut it, either you’re not doing damage or you’ll just die too fast.

I’m somewhat happy with where we’re at. We’re more tanky than before with earth being viable, but yeah, Ele will always be squishier and more challenging to play than Guardian or Warrior. Our dmg feels quite a bit lower than before unless we take fire over earth, but doing so also makes us squishier than we were before. Most importantly it feels like the Earth grandmaster is giving us some fairly passive survivability to fill in the gaps in keeping ourselves up, thus allowing us to save more for group support. In terms of PvE, zerker staff is stronger than ever, so definitely no complaints there.

I’m just glad fire is finally viable outside of PvE. yeah burns are op and need to be toned down, but that’s not just an ele problem. I just hope they don’t completely gut fire and make it worthless again. Hopefully they’ll just change burn itself and not screw over the traits since ele, engi, and guard all have the same op burns now, wouldn’t make sense to destroy the traitlines when they can just tweak the numbers on burn, but this is Anet after all.

I think they’re in a good place, even without using a meta build I still have fun. I use a staff build for pvp and it’s really fun, squishy but fun. I found them to be a little more accessible, although it might be a placebo for me, but they are still challenging to play. I don’t see anything wrong with them at the moment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bd-9UY6eOI <- that’s the build I use, if anyone was interested.

Lytro.9305:

I think they’re in a good place, even without using a meta build I still have fun. I use a staff build for pvp and it’s really fun, squishy but fun. I found them to be a little more accessible, although it might be a placebo for me, but they are still challenging to play. I don’t see anything wrong with them at the moment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bd-9UY6eOI <- that’s the build I use, if anyone was interested.

I also play zerk staff with Fire, Air and Water and I love it. The only difference with you is that I went Tempest defense/LR in Air and I kept the cantrip traditional choices in water. I can easily sustain above 15 might stacks and reach 25 if the fight last longer than 15 seconds. I thought I’d miss my arcana but I really don’t.

Tbh ele’s aren’t in a good place right now: glyph’s, signets, arcane skills are still pretty pointless to take vs cantrips. Elites are probably the worst ingame. Eles are still forced to trait into water+arcana for PvP and staff ele in wvw+pve is ridiculously OP (can’t confirm for PvP not doing it that often). Getting backstabbed by thieves in wvw for 8-10k while doing that almost the same amount of damage per MS tick with MS hitting up to 72 targets instead of just 1, this class just feels really broken. It’s quite funny to play it for a while, but i feel like the ele is simply to OP atm.

Low buildvariety in pvp/pve, 70% of your utilities useless, useless elites, and complete broken dmge.
Is the class usefull: YES, is it balanced? NOPE

A lot of people are not satisfied with build diversity, or lack thereof. Tbh it doesnt matter much at the end of the day, once someone finds out what the new strongest meta is 95% of people will play with that specc, regardless of how viable anything else is. I think with Ele the meta didnt really change much which is why everyone is so sour.

Regardless though Ele STILL has a very strong presence in every aspect of the game(PVE, WvW, sPVP), which several classes never get to see, even with their fancy new meta ability sets…I think thiefs got pigeonholed into one specc far more then Eles even….Poor thiefs…

TLDR: Eles dont have the greatest build variety, but we were strong before the patch and we are even stronger now with the buffs to celestial. Ele plays vital roles in all aspects of the game, AKA is in a great spot…unless you are only concerned with the “illusion” of having multiple viable builds.

Blooperz.6145:

Tbh it doesnt matter much at the end of the day, once someone finds out what the new strongest meta is 95% of people will play with that specc, regardless of how viable anything else is. I think with Ele the meta didnt really change much which is why everyone is so sour.

Bingo!

The D/D Ele pre-patch and post patch plays almost exactly the same just a few different changes to playstyle and consideration, but it isn’t anything like taking a pre-patch condi necro with some spectrals or corruption skills and post patch turning it into a boon corruption spec. That is why I have been playing my necro more than my Ele lately because it’s different enough from what it was pre-patch.

Sure I can either be more tanky with a earth build or I can do more damage with a fire build, but the fundamental aspects of playing D/D are almost exactly the same, because cantrips. I tried focus it’s ok in certain fights, but the damage is missing I understand it’s range so it shouldn’t match offhand daggers damage. It just feels like it’s utility, which is fine, but paired with main hand dagger it feels like your running a kitten set. I think scepter fixes would really help me get into running focus, but right now I just do it to change it up.

They didn’t even really change much in necro utilities, but that one signet of suffering trait made signets a thing now on Necro now condi necro doesn’t do as much damage because of the changes, but it’s still fun to play because everyone else relies on boons so much.

Ele needs a trait that makes you want to really consider glyphs or signets something that makes them feel good enough to drop one or all cantrips.

I wouldn’t really hold my breath for anything else sweeping until HoT.

Overall I think ele is in a OK place it’s just to similar to what many of us have been playing for 3+ years now.

I would wait for HoT patch balance notes before cementing yes or no to “are we balanced”.

Nope. At the moment I am waiting for “Nerf incoming”. So, nope, Eles are not in any good place, no matter when. pre-patch or post-patch.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Overall I’m rather saddened that 2 weeks after almost all builds that seem to come out viable are water/arcane/x celestial again

At least instead of Arcane + Water + only 2 points left, now you got a full trait line to utilize.

This is probably the main reason why Ele becomes even stronger than pre-patch, and at the absolute top of food chain once more. It was already close to the top pre-patch with just Arcane and Water.

In the end water is to strong (group support + cantrip synergy) to leave it out and arcane generally supports the playstyle of elemental swaping, regardless what you build.
So no wonder ….

i can play D/D, do damage and not instantly die. this is alright with me.

finally i can DROP arcana trait! TY anet whahah
running mixed valkyrie and knight hoelbrak fresh air (+water and fire trair) s/d…. its LOVELY
nice burst and enough surv to survive a thief/mesmer burst or get out a hostile zerg or move from a burning point in spvp

so the answer is YES

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Overall I’m rather saddened that 2 weeks after almost all builds that seem to come out viable are water/arcane/x celestial again

absolutely NOT right
try to make another build then META and try to master it, u will see its still viable…

What is all this non-sense about Arcana being mandatory? Water is, true, but not arcana. Come one ppl, stop being so conservative.

I agree, fire/air/water; berserker gear with runes of strength= fun times in wvw

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

What is all this non-sense about Arcana being mandatory? Water is, true, but not arcana. Come one ppl, stop being so conservative.

I don’t know why people are so scared to play without arcana or even water to try it out it doesn’t cost them anything.

Earth can completely replace Arcana as long as you run water and a energy sigil. Air/Earth/Water with zephyr’s boon will give you enough fury uptime, soothing disruption+energy sigil enough regen+endurance, and earth will give you a ton protection with protection on aura’s+soothing ice. Not to mention if you take Rock solid you can run Ether Renewal much more reliably than any other non-earth build. Oh and I don’t have to mention stone heart.

I would certainly run a fire/water/earth build if I wanted to put on traveler runes instead of hoelbrak which i think is certainly viable.

I find it strange that people won’t experiment more.

Ele is in a good spot?
Ele is in OP spot now.
my ele now can dominate pvp/wvw. Easily 1v2 and sometimes 1v3 as well.
and btw great thing about arcane trait is that boons upon attunement change + fast and easier might stacking with evasive arcana. But from what i experienced arcane trait is not must trait like water in wvw/pvp.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

What is all this non-sense about Arcana being mandatory? Water is, true, but not arcana. Come one ppl, stop being so conservative.

Not even water. I’ve been running Arcana/Air/Fire and I’ve done fine. What’s for sure is the fact either of Arcana or Water is mandatory and on competitve level both are.

WvW eles are in a great place now. Fire/air/water is pretty broken tbh running staff due to the trait synergies. Strength runes arent optimal for damage though and full zerker gear is a horrible idea if you are fighting against numerous opponents, especially when you are grossly outnumbered due to the lack of sustained damage.

If group support is your thing there is a decent damage output staff build that is next to impossible for anyone to kill you when running it. If pick is going to take you out, they better bring three people.

Roaming builds d/d are pretty nasty as well. There is a pretty broken full condi build and an extremely broken celestial pressure build as well. /shrug… Seems like some of you are lacking in imagination.

Eles don´t complanin about ele is bad. They complain about manny traits and utilities are to bad to use :-).
Staff and dager builds that run water are in a good place. Thats what i said. Water + cantrips are shadowing over the rest.

I’m playing around with conquest as air water earth and diamond skin and aura share atm.
Having fun

evnw.9324:

people will be quick to cry nerf against classes like Ele for some reason but I honestly believe it’s one of the few classes that is in balance, viable if not optimal in all game modes and one of the most engaging and fun to play. People will complain about this or that(rightfully so at times. Cheers to the community getting through to the devs about the arcane attunement changes ) but compared to the other classes I’m very happy with where we are right now. I just hope we get sword over horn!

That is somewhat the problem. As an engineer main, and we’re a “jack of all trades” — we end up playing 2nd fiddle to ele (who is also a jack of all trades, seemingly) in every single game mode.

Pve, Fractals, speedrunning, WvW, Spvp. You guys are top tier in everything atm, and is that fair? I’m not sure. Engis certainly need a little love atm.

There is another probem. Eles seem desigend to need more player skill for getting the maximum out, and that maximum is often winning and this will cause complanis. Having much utilities at hand is strong for itself. Use the right mechanic/chain/build in the rigth moment and you win. Even with my low playtime i experienced that. My build destroys most zerkers (but will loose against manny others), and doing a perfect reaction on the oponent can also be devasting. So you can get more out of eles then other classes if done rigth. On the oter side eles bite the dust on mistakes/surprises much easier.

Are Eles in a good place now?

I don’t know, but as a total noob, I can say it is the only class I enjoy playing as it keeps me engaged in how many skills I have to play and the diversity of doing a lot of damage or building tanky.

If it gets nerfed to change the fun I am having I will probably drift away from GW2 as any other class just doesn’t hold my interest for long (mez or necro being the closest).

I honestly think from personal experience ele is in a very good place but they could do with some toning down (in PvE)… shouldn’t really complain & sound like a spoilt brat rn but damage is currently cray in PvE to the point that tours are getting insanely boring because kitten dies so fast with two steles especially in the higher dungeons.

They did however kind of mess up build variety in PvE with some of the trait changes. LH became pretty sub-optimal & extremely situational for organised groups along with D/F.

PS War had pretty much replaced ele’s original purpose of might stacking at a lesser cost so there really is/was no reason to bring LH and this update has reinforced that even more.

So you could say ele is limited in terms of build variety right now…

In regards to PvP, I think they’re in a good place. Some people may argue they’re too tanky with the diamond skin and what-not; however iirc they did go through a dry phase when condi meta kicked off and you rarely saw anyone using an ele (in my experience) so I like seeing them back being used again.

Can’t say too much about what they’re like in WvW, but I think they have always been pretty decent there anywho.

In WvW most guilds I know aren’t running arcane at all, and I just did a fractal for the first time in a long time and was told not to use arcane for it. So I’d say our build variety has improved. IMHO eles are in perhaps the best place they’ve been since beta.