Guild Wars 2

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Health

This feels very unbalanced to me and I don’t understand the reasoning from the weird class balance when it comes to health.

But it’s not like Warriors are low damage, not compared to us atleast.

I have an Ele and a War at 80, and both are geared for dps (but the warrior has soldier runes). My Warrior has about 21000 health and my ele has around 11000. My ele crits are lucky to hit for over 3k, while 100b is a consistent 21000, the 3 skill with a gs hits for about 8k, eviscerate about 9k, etc. Even considering that some of the warrior skills “take longer” to fire, they still do significantly more damage in the time-frame than my ele does.

Add to this the fact that my warrior can banner (I keep Discipline up all the time), can remove 3 conditions from the party with shouts, can provide fury/might, is practically immortal on a multi-enemy fight with hp leech food and dual axes, and can put out rifle damage in a pinch that will equal my ele on everything but large, stationary targets.

I know warriors are pretty broken in general (a 4 warrior/ 1 guardian dungeon run is truly ridiculous) but having my ele provide less utility, less damage, and have considerably less survivability doesn’t make any sense.

Because we can make combo fields so other people have more fun and enjoy their characters more.

We have an entire element devoted to healing and water combo fields. Spec into a little healing power and profit.

I just started a post on counter to warriors yesterday. Supposedly, they are one of the easiest classes for us to take down. You just have to be specced right and have the skillz to counters to their 100 blades skill.

Heres how it works:

Invest full air to get Tempest Trait

When u get hit with 100 kittens it will auto counter. Now that the warrior has blown his main CD, just blow him up. Having multiple stun breaks and oh kitten skills really helps.

I have around 20k hp and I have yet to meet a warrior that is able to kill me, so I don’t really get the point of this thread. All I see is complaining about dying quickly as a glass cannon.

Oh man, we really need a 100 kitten skill now. We’d explode and a 100 kittens would come flying out and everyone would die from cuteness. That would make the low survivability worth it.

Speccing 30 into Air just to counter one class and one skill when many people (like myself) aren’t specced into Air to begin with, is the definition of broken, sorry. Yes you can avoid hundred blades if you’re not stunned and use a stun break if you are, but the skill has a short CD and we still have either crappy defense or crappy damage to try to kill him with. A class with that much defense, HP, and damage all in one is just broken, period. It’s the same reason Thieves are OP.

Don’t even need 30 Air. There are numerous ways to counter 100B warriors. If you see them coming, dodge the Bull’s Rush. Now you’ve saved your CDs so countering the immobilize that’s coming is easy.

Dagger has Shocking Aura which can be used while knocked down. Automatic counter with a low CD, keep it up whenever you can.

Lightning Flash is a stun/immobilize break plus a dodge in one skill. LF out of Bull’s or immobilize. Cleansing Fire is another good one, but you need to dodge behind or in front of the Warrior to avoid 100B’s cone. Dodging to the side still gets you hit.

If he leads with immob, use Earthquake, Updraft, or any other CC skill.

Try to get the drop on him. An RTL > Updraft > Burning Speed > RoF > Fire Grab can burst them down pretty hard since most Warriors are glass cannons.

If they ever pop Endure Pain, just kite them and continue counter-CCing, and countering their CC. They can still be stunned and stuff, so again Shocking Aura is amazing here.

If you take the Water trait to remove conditions, you can easily break immobilize that way, too. Boom, suddenly their immobilize isn’t worth a kitten thing the entire fight. Water Attunement > Dodge > get a heal from Evasive Arcana on top of it.

The point is, don’t expect to run with both Arcane Blast and Wave and expect to have enough utility to counter their CC and damage. You need to pack multi-purpose skills. Lightning Flash can be used with Churning Earth, for instance to land it easily. Cleansing Fire could be combo’d with Fire Grab. On top of this they also break stuns, and CF removes conditions. Pretty much why cantrips are preferred over any othekittenll for us. Yeah, signets can be nice, but the majority still run cantrips.

Yes, we have to pack CC breaks to counter them, but they’re packing CC instead of survivability skills, so it’s actually pretty kitten balanced. Most Warriors, as I said, are very glassy. If they pop Frenzy and go all-in and you LF quickittenhen combo, you can nearly kill them during Frenzy’s duration. Burning Speed can crit for 4k with Frenzy up, same with RoF. Fire Grab does 7k to them. They aren’t hard to kill, just hard to escape from, but we have the tools to do it, and do it regularly. Their CC is on a longer CD than Shocking Aura alone which means if they ever try to combo again, you’ll have it up and ready to counter it. Hundred Blades roots them in place, so who cares if it has a short CD? Once they blow their CC skills to no effect, you only have to dodge away whenever you see them pop 100B. Warriors are pathetic against a D/D Cantrip build.

“We have an entire element devoted to healing and water combo fields. Spec into a little healing power and profit.”

Even if you spec for max healing, with cleric’s gear and staff, the healing is nothing to write home about.
This is a death sentence for soloists, for a group it’s not so bad.

You can’t just compare base healths to each other. And you can’t either add some random stuff you like and base your logic upon that. It’s abit more complex.

Elementalists can be quite unkillable, despite the low health. Just know what you’re doing and rotate the elements right, and you’ll have benefits from all of them (including the defensive and healing ones).

Back to the health issue: Guardians have alot less health than warriors too, and yet its alot more difficult to take them down than a defensive warrior. A warrior’s health is not easily restored by himself.

To the guy saying his 100b hits for 21k and his elementalist’s attacks are lucky to crit for 3k: Either you’re lying or you have no idea. I’ve been hit by ALOT more than 3k by elementalists and everyone with a little bit of PvP experience knows this. The 21k seem to be quite an exageration as well. Maybe on someone who takes 50% more damage..

Damevi.7406:

I have around 20k hp and I have yet to meet a warrior that is able to kill me, so I don’t really get the point of this thread. All I see is complaining about dying quickly as a glass cannon.

Congratulations. That also means that you’ve given up all semblance of trying to deal damage which means you can’t kill him either.

Simply because we have a lot more range options. Then again we do have our D/D option…

Warriors have higher health and higher damage because:

1) With the exception of the longbow burst skill and the odd bleed, all Warrior damage comes directly from the skill they’re using at that exact moment in time. No summoned minions doing additional damage while you run about, no GTAoE periodically applying extra damage and effects, etc. This means that all of their potential damage is loaded into the weapon skills. The upside of this is that they hit hard. The downside is that if you miss (blinds, blocks, dodges, etc) then you lose a huge chunk of your potential damage.

Warriors also have ranged weapons, but it is quite hard to effectively kite with them. The rifle is usually taken over the Longbow as the rifle applies far more damage thanks to volley and kill shot. The Rifle is usually used as a way of applying damage while you get into melee range, not to kite around your opponent.

2) Warriors have quite poor healing unless you dedicate your entire build to it (which includes all utility slots – shout healing). There is also hardly any access to blocks, bonus evades, aegis, protection, etc. Once the dodge bar is gone, Warriors need to take every single hit which is usually in melee range. Elementalists (in theory) can kite far better and have more options for getting out of the fight. Warriors do have an invincibility skill, but it’s on a long cooldown (as it should be).

The issue with the elementalist’s low health is that the skills/features of the class don’t really seem to counter the lack of hitpoints. Compared to a Thief (stealth and evasion) or Guardian (blocks and blinds), the Elementalist is a bit lacking in all areas.

tl:dr: Warrior health is fine, buff Elementalists.

Ele can have 3k toughness while maintaining 13-14k HP, plus with combo fields you can get stacks of might easy, with S/D you can pull off an easy 12 stacks of might, then theres the water fields you can combo into which heal you for quite a bit (Even more noticeable with a lower HP pool), sometimes outlasting your opponent can be your greatest offence. That’s not to mention the amount of CC we can generally kick out.

Curring.9752:

Ele can have 3k toughness while maintaining 13-14k HP, plus with combo fields you can get stacks of might easy, with S/D you can pull off an easy 12 stacks of might, then theres the water fields you can combo into which heal you for quite a bit (Even more noticeable with a lower HP pool), sometimes outlasting your opponent can be your greatest offence. That’s not to mention the amount of CC we can generally kick out.

If your opponent is not moving and you don’t get knocked down, blinded, CCed, hit too hard, etc. then yes you can get 12 stacks of might and combo into a water field. In reality though, you can’t rely on that and it’s certainly not going to be up for 100% of the time. Combat is dynamic and if the fight isn’t absolutely perfect that rotation is going to suffer. If you’re out grinding regular mobs sure it’s easy, but we don’t really have issues grinding regular PvE mobs.

Well clerics gear is nice… but heal wise power is less than stellar to stack. I was using clerics winged gear on my water ele, til I realized that it was only really helpful for soloing (and still doing some damage) So I made a second set of gear just for soloing while still in my water spec. my healy gear is just for dungeons.

stat wise I am looking at precision/toughness/vitality/healing power

the toughness and vitality is interchangeable, depending on what you can find.

but… since thats not really the topic of this conversation. I do agree its a little odd for an MMO claiming to do away with the majority of the aspects of the traditional healer/tank/dps to then fall back on it for armor, for health, and other things..

but then with the guild I run with I pretty much have no choice but to run water spec… good thing I like it :P

Eclipses.7152

Congratulations. That also means that you’ve given up all semblance of trying to deal damage which means you can’t kill him either.

Nope, so far I kitten on every warrior i met. My build is very similar to the build from the recent tanky dps thread.

Some of you are really missing the issue if you think that forcing us to be in turtle spec with turtle gear should be needed to beat other classes in their glass cannon specs..

I don’t play a turtle. I run 2500 armor with 15k HP, and I have zero problems with Warriors. See my other post on ways to effectively counter them. I do run high healing, at about 600-800, though.

It’s not about being able to counter a warrior. Anyone can counter anyone if prepared and played right.

It’s about balance and the reasoning behind warriors getting twice our hps.

Comparing a Warrior glass cannon to a Elementalist Turtle/Healing machine is not fair either. What if the Warrior turtled aswell? Bye bye Elementalist…

Leiloni.7951:

Curring.9752:

Ele can have 3k toughness while maintaining 13-14k HP, plus with combo fields you can get stacks of might easy, with S/D you can pull off an easy 12 stacks of might, then theres the water fields you can combo into which heal you for quite a bit (Even more noticeable with a lower HP pool), sometimes outlasting your opponent can be your greatest offence. That’s not to mention the amount of CC we can generally kick out.

If your opponent is not moving and you don’t get knocked down, blinded, CCed, hit too hard, etc. then yes you can get 12 stacks of might and combo into a water field. In reality though, you can’t rely on that and it’s certainly not going to be up for 100% of the time. Combat is dynamic and if the fight isn’t absolutely perfect that rotation is going to suffer. If you’re out grinding regular mobs sure it’s easy, but we don’t really have issues grinding regular PvE mobs.

Doesn’t matter if you get blinded/CC’d, you will still get the combo field, it’s like a double edged sword… that is easy to avoid. You’ll be using those skills in rotation anyways, just as long as you pull of the field before using the blast finishers you’ll get the bonus, I know they won’t last forever but usually you can keep a high uptime and well free extra damage is free at the end of it. Guess I’m just trying to point out the benefits we get as everyone makes ele sound so freakin bad, yeah ele needs a bit of a buff and some tweaks but comparing them to a class that can’t maintain an upkeep like what ele’s can is kinda stupid.

If a game with this much PvP, it’s never stupid to compare classes…

You can easily, and I mean easily maintain 10+ stacks of Might in any fight. I often find myself with even more than that, plus 100% uptime on Fury. Sigil of Battle, Evasive Arcana, and Zephyr’s Boon.

I assume we get less base health to make up for the fact that we can achieve 10k HP in heals with 600~ healing power, some of it AoE.

Luterin.9876:

It’s not about being able to counter a warrior. Anyone can counter anyone if prepared and played right.

It’s about balance and the reasoning behind warriors getting twice our hps.

Comparing a Warrior glass cannon to a Elementalist Turtle/Healing machine is not fair either. What if the Warrior turtled aswell? Bye bye Elementalist…

It’s already been spelled out. We have a tree dedicated to healing; our sustainability in combat as a support/tank role is certainly in the top 3 of all classes. Have you met defensive warriors? They’re garbage complete garbage, and easily overwhelmed with conditions to boot. If we had the HP pool of warriors we would be nigh unkillable in a defensive role, and if you removed the HP pool of warriors they would just get destroyed.

The answer to your question is that Warriors, Rangers, and Necros have a larger HP pool than other classes because they also have a severe lack of condition removal utility, (except necro, but they suffer from mobility and defensive problems), activated defensive abilities, and some serious mobility problems. Other classes in the game, notably thieves and elementalists, have extremely good mobility and active defense abilities. Think about it, by speccing just 10 points into water nets you regen and vigor on cantrips. Taking two cantrips, ideally flash and cleansing fire, nets you near permanent vigor. If you wanted, you could also spec into some other options to increase endurance regen, and use endurance sigils. You would never run out of endurance =/

At the same time, Elementalist has arguably the BEST condition removal in the game, even without staff. 30 points into water grants 2 free conditions on water swap, 1 more for each cantrip, and 3 from cleansing fire. If you wield a staff you get conditions removed every 3 seconds from Rain, and for each person it applies regen to, you lose another condition.

We are also the only class that can permenantly maintain might, swiftness, and regen. You can also have majority uptime on fury and protection. NO other class has the buff generating abilities we have. Period.

All told, warriors have twice the HP pool of elementalists because to give everyone the same HP pool would be absurd if you didn’t give everyone the same amount of utility and condition removal.

Elemental Attunement trait + Glyph of Elemental Harmony = 80%~ uptime on Protection, too. Swap to Earth during the heal, bam. You can get a bit more with the right runes, too. 33% damage mitigation is pretty huge, though even with that and 2500 armor I still get crit by HS for 3k, and 10k backstabs.

So what you guys are saying is they’re making Ele’s work harder for equal or lesser results than most other classes. Glad we can agree. I see a balance problem, there.

You see a balance problem, I see options. Some classes require more work to get similar results, and that’s how it should be. They should naturally be rewarded by having more options for being more complex, Eles are. Look at WoW Feral druids during Wrath (last time I played), they could do DPS just fine, but ever seen their “rotation”? It was actually represented with a flowchart, and spawned a meme. There is nothing wrong with that, as they also had more available tools, and options to choose from.

Eles have the same thing. We get multiple boons, with high uptime. We get multiple gap closers, condition skills, power skills, and CC and that’s just with one weapon set.

The only concern should be whether we can do things on par with other classes. Some we can, others we can’t. That’s a problem, surely, but the problem isn’t with the whole “more work” thing, it’s the results that matter. I’d be upset if they dumbed down Ele to be like every other class. We have a lot of potential versatility, and even in practice we still have plenty.

We can apply AoE Might by ourselves, 6 stacks, 9 if you use an Energy sigil. We apply AoE regen, and condition removal. We can achieve 10k worth in healing for ourselves while maintaining a decent, steady DPS with some potential for burst (Fire Grab, Churning Earth), and that’s on top of the boon stacking. We can also maintain 100% uptime on Fury, Swiftness, and 80% on protection for ourselves. With ONE BUILD. If the price we pay is to be more complex, then I say it’s a fair trade-off, because utilizing all of this properly takes more skill. The way it should be.

Where we suffer is reliability. We can’t RELIABLY spike because of poor animations, casting times, and the amount of setup required for our spike skills to be useful. We can’t reliably gap-close because of bugs with RTL and Magnetic Grasp.

If you think the problem is complexity, you’re way off. The problem is reliability. Our complexity and versatility is there, some animation tweaks and bug fixes would go a long way to fixing reliability.

I love how everyone wants to solve all problem with forcing us to spec into a turtle.

Why can’t you people see how that is an issue?

No one is forcing you to spec as a turtle, but if you want to spec glass cannon, you should go play a different game. Every class in this game is terrible in team play if they spec glass cannon.

Elementalist is fortunate enough that if they DO spec in a turtle build, they can still put out some remarkably decent burst. Churning earth, fire grab, DT, and phoenix hit hard, even in turtle spec.

I might add that I rarely run a turtle build. I spec 0/10/0/30/30 or 0/20/0/30/20 with a berserkers amulet, hardly a turtle build. I do carry a clerics amulet for when I am required to solo hold points, because even with S/D it still takes 3 or 4 uncoordinated people, are 2 skilled, coordinated players to down me before backup can arrive.

IMO, warriors have (and need) a larger health pool for a number of reasons -

1. Actual health vs. effective health.

In this game, real damage mitigation doesn’t come from toughness or vitality. Rather, it comes from evasion, active shielding, offensive condition application, and so forth. This means that access to vigor, regen, and protection on the defensive side translates into a higher effective health pool; while access to blind and chill on the offensive side translates into the same thing. Warriors have very little access to these boons and conditions, if any, while elementalists have good access to all of the above even in glass builds.

It’s one of the reasons why warriors don’t make very good bunkers.

2. Healing and condi removal.

I play both ele and warrior, among other classes. With a typical s/d valk’s build and evasive arcana over elemental surge, you lose very little damage while gaining a lot of healing potential tied in with condition removal. Warriors cannot hope to match this without a 30 tactics/soldier runes/cleric’s build, which brings their damage to basically 0 – and even then it doesn’t match up.

There isn’t even a question as to which class has more sustain.

3. Ranged vs. melee.

This is obviously a flawed argument because warriors have ranged builds and ele’s usually need to be in melee for at least some portion of a fight – I understand that. However, you should understand that elementalists have ways to consistently avoid or absorb damage when they need to be in melee and have the tools to instantly get out of melee as necessary – and if they do take damage, they have enough regen to recover. Warriors pretty much face tank everyone with nothing but shield block and (maybe) endure pain with no reliable way to disengage from the fight. There are exceptions, of course – GS + mobile strikes allows for quick escapes and many warriors carry shake it off or w/e, but the point is that elementalists have way, way more consistent and reliable access to these tools.

In the end, all of the above plays into EHP (effective HP). That’s really all there is to it. Flat vitality doesn’t mean much.

“No one is forcing you to spec as a turtle, but if you want to spec glass cannon, you should go play a different game.”
you really don’t see the hypocrisy in that statement?

No, because you took my statement out of context. No class in this game works successfully in a well played tpvp environment as a glass cannon. There is too much AOE, too much condition, and you cant rez downed teammates or finish down opponents – why; because you are simply too squishy. So yeah, you might gank someone in a team fight, but you cant finish them, and you dont provide the utility to let your teammates finish them. Glass cannon builds are worthless.

Whether you believe a spec is worthwhile or not isn’t the point. The point is we don’t have an option. Because the other one isn’t viable. thats being pigeon held into a spec which is the point of they are making.

so no it wasn’t out of context.

Veenix.5248:

Whether you believe a spec is worthwhile or not isn’t the point. The point is we don’t have an option. Because the other one isn’t viable. thats being pigeon held into a spec which is the point of they are making.

so no it wasn’t out of context.

This.

I always LOL at the elites saying glass cannons should never be played. Listen, speccing into water and earth is fine and viable but WHY do we have to do it to be remotely competitive?

I dont know about you guys, but I didnt roll an Eley to be a survivalist; I wanted to do massive amounts of damage just like the description says. If I wanted to face tank people I would of picked Warrior or Guardian,

kitten, I dont even understand the point of tank/Heal eleys now that I think about it, why not just play a guardian, I mean they CANT die if they dont want to, and they do their task much easier.

Ah well…

INB4 L2P
INB4 Play another class
INB4 Glass cannon blah blah
INB4 etc etc etc

I’ve been asking this question myself, from a mesmer perspective

I didn’t say speccing into Earth or Water was the only option. I spec 30 into Air all the time, that’s where our burst traits are. 20% damage on KD or Stun, 10% damage in Air, and 20% dmg below 25% HP. Speccing into water isn’t necessary either, 10 points into fire nets 10% damage in fire, thats big for burst. It’s completely viable, and when I feel like killing people in a single KD, I often use the build to mess around with for 8v8.

However; it’s not a viable build in good, structured, 5v5 where both teams are premades and know what they are doing. Balanced or tanky builds with stability and control rule those arenas, its a fact of life…just deal with it. That type of team play has nothing to do with elementalists, and everything to do with the game itself. The current meta-game just doesn’t allow bursty teams to be successful. In a 3v3 fight with a single bunker and two balanced builds, or 3 bunkers vs 1 bunker and 2 bursts or 3 bursts, you just cant lose. Burst classes cannot finish opponents in team fights, if they stand still, they die. That allows constant and consistent team resurrecting, which completely defeats the purpose of burst builds. You WILL be worn down, and you WILL lose.

Otherwise, elementalist burst is completely viable, and its some of the most consistent and powerful burst in the game.

Luterin.9876:

I love how everyone wants to solve all problem with forcing us to spec into a turtle.

Why can’t you people see how that is an issue?

It is a problem, considering they stated they wanted everyclass to fill every role, but our burst build lack compared to the other builds, forcing us to pack more defence because we get more bang for our buck, thats where the tweaking and fixing lies. I’d love to be the ele in team fights that actually rains down hell and the other team are like “Oh Kittens!” we need to take down the Ele ASAP, that ain’t gonna happen in the current state.

I played a bit of warrior in sPVP, being a glass cannon with a… rifle.
Even with everything specced into power and precision I’m still left with 22k health. I once critted a poor soul for 12k damage with killshot. And its not like I’m helpless in melee range either, just pull out the greatsword, hit frenzy and go 100b on someone. Even when im downed I get this final kitten you with the vengeance skill (and hammer throw to interrupt a stomp).
And even though I’m bad at playing warrior (I just threw in some signets for utilities for the remaining slots because hell, I dunno, passive effects and stuff I guess) I feel so much more effective and beefier than I would ever feel playing a glass cannon elementalist in sPVP

Selix.5670:

We have an entire element devoted to healing and water combo fields. Spec into a little healing power and profit.

A) Too bad that that “entire element” is good for a quick burst once every 30 seconds or so, and useless the rest of the time. Geyser is too small, even with blasting staff, to be particularly useful in most situations where people are constantly moving to avoid damage. Healing Rain has a huge cooldown.

B) Healing power is an awful stat. People have done the testing on it, it gives returns as awful as 20:1 (20 Healing Power required to heal 1 more HP) on many skills. Stack 2000 healing power and you will heal for 200 more HP; in the BEST scenarios (4:1 on one or two skills), healing for 500 more HP. Too bad you’re getting hit for 3000+ per hit by warriors and thieves.

@ Isila:

A) It’s more about the water field they provide which in turn can get you 2-3 combo finishers of AoE Healing, which will heal you for a generous amount.

B) It’s not the best stat to be fully specc’d into, however it is not a useless as you state – on my Support guardian I had around 1k healing power and each of my heals went up by about 600-700, now consider how many heals/regens the class has and then you realize that is isn’t that bad. Healing in this game is more about mitigating the damage as apposed to keeping yours and allies HP bars at full at all times. Though it is a matter of opinion and play style.

Warriors have more base health because they are sturdy and can take more hits due to heavier weapontraining.. though this ofcourse isnt to be seen from the looks :P

Selix.5670:

We have an entire element devoted to healing and water combo fields. Spec into a little healing power and profit.

Out of curiosity, how often do your heals cause a loot bag to drop in WvW? I love to support my world, but it seems to be costing me badges.

Curring.9752:

@ Isila:

A) It’s more about the water field they provide which in turn can get you 2-3 combo finishers of AoE Healing, which will heal you for a generous amount.

As I said, a quick burst once every 30 seconds or so. The fields have to be up for you to combo off of them. Staff only gets Earth 2 as a natural blast finisher, throw Arcane Wave on there for combo #2. But Arcane wave, again, has a 30 second cooldown (24 if you trait for it). Building around water is nice for the gimmick of having a good healing burst every 24~30 seconds, but people die in this game in a matter of two or three seconds from full HP, so it doesn’t actually help all that much.

B) It’s not the best stat to be fully specc’d into, however it is not a useless as you state – on my Support guardian I had around 1k healing power and each of my heals went up by about 600-700, now consider how many heals/regens the class has and then you realize that is isn’t that bad. Healing in this game is more about mitigating the damage as apposed to keeping yours and allies HP bars at full at all times. Though it is a matter of opinion and play style.

You may have noticed, but this is the Elementalist forum, not the Guardian forum. Guardians may get something useful out of healing power, but Elementalists do not. The math has been done, it is not arguable. For stacking thousands of healing power you get a couple hundred extra HP out of your spells, meaning that the people you’re healing get overkilled by slightly less when that warrior or thief rolls up to them and gibs them in under three seconds.

I’m not talking a couple hundred per tick of regen, I’m talking a couple hundred TOTAL over the full duration of the regen boon. You’re not mitigating anything that you weren’t already mitigating with 0 in healing power.

I think we can all agree that Arenanet has no clue what they are doing with respect to balancing the elementalist. I think original the elementalist (during Gstar with karl playing) was a little too strong so they nerfed it and forgot to adjust it. And we all have left is the thought of karl playing it during Gstar and the hope that at some point down the line within now and infinity or december 21 when the world ends, arenanet will come to their senses and fix this really weak class.

Isila.2574:

Curring.9752:

@ Isila:

A) It’s more about the water field they provide which in turn can get you 2-3 combo finishers of AoE Healing, which will heal you for a generous amount.

As I said, a quick burst once every 30 seconds or so. The fields have to be up for you to combo off of them. Staff only gets Earth 2 as a natural blast finisher, throw Arcane Wave on there for combo #2. But Arcane wave, again, has a 30 second cooldown (24 if you trait for it). Building around water is nice for the gimmick of having a good healing burst every 24~30 seconds, but people die in this game in a matter of two or three seconds from full HP, so it doesn’t actually help all that much.

B) It’s not the best stat to be fully specc’d into, however it is not a useless as you state – on my Support guardian I had around 1k healing power and each of my heals went up by about 600-700, now consider how many heals/regens the class has and then you realize that is isn’t that bad. Healing in this game is more about mitigating the damage as apposed to keeping yours and allies HP bars at full at all times. Though it is a matter of opinion and play style.

You may have noticed, but this is the Elementalist forum, not the Guardian forum. Guardians may get something useful out of healing power, but Elementalists do not. The math has been done, it is not arguable. For stacking thousands of healing power you get a couple hundred extra HP out of your spells, meaning that the people you’re healing get overkilled by slightly less when that warrior or thief rolls up to them and gibs them in under three seconds.

I’m not talking a couple hundred per tick of regen, I’m talking a couple hundred TOTAL over the full duration of the regen boon. You’re not mitigating anything that you weren’t already mitigating with 0 in healing power.

1. That quick burst will easily get you back to full without having to use your main heal, and 30 seconds, I’m pretty sure you can survive for 30 seconds with the amount of CC skills on a staff, not to mention dodging out of damage ect.

2. You may have noticed people comparing Ele’s heals to that of a guardian, some think they’re even better. So if it’s doing a lot for a Guard it’s do the same if not more for us? I mean that AoE healing is beastly without any +healing. We also apply a lot of AoE regeneration, just by swapping to the water attunement itself.

Ryld.1340:

Regeneration does indeed use Healing Power.

Edit for more detail:
This is the formula for Regeneration
5 + (1.562 * Level) + (0.125 * Healing Power) per second

So at these three levels, you can see the difference per tick at 80
0 healing power: 130
500 healing power: 192
1000 healing power: 254

Basically, every 100 healing power adds on 12-13~ health per tick.

(From a different thread)

So yeah, it isn’t such a bad stat as everyone deems it to be, however I don’t suggest pumping your build full of it. I am not saying it the best thing and that everyone should use it ect, I’m just disproving people that say it’s as bad as they say.

Isila.2574:

The math has been done, it is not arguable.

You might want to personally double check the numbers before making statements like this.

With 20 in water -

Glyph of Elemental Harmony -

w/ zerker’s (260 healing) – 5089
w/ valk’s (544 healing) – 5302

Cleansing Wave and water swap -

w/ zerker’s – 1562
w/ valk’s – 1846

Water Trident -

w/ zerker’s – 1708
w/ valk’s – 1992

Geyser -

w/ zerker’s – 873/tick
w/ valk’s – 944/tick

Regen -

w/ zerker’s – 162/tick
w/ valk’s – 198/tick

The evasive arcana proc and blast finisher scale similarly to GoEH/CW/WT. All of the above continue to scale at the same rate if you max out water and use cleric’s for full bunker builds.

All in all, the returns on some skills are 1:1 while others give slightly less (213 extra healing with 284 healing power on GoEH). Geyser might seem somewhat underwhelming because it’s close to 1:1 across the entire duration rather than per tick, but tbh its real power comes w/ evasive arcana anyway. Healing rain might also seem a little underwhelming, but then again you’re also getting pulsing condi removal.

Anyways, your non-arguable numbers are wrong (20:1 for “many” skills lol?) and there’s a reason why people cry about the 0/0/10/30/30 triple cantrip/cleric’s/earth rune builds – and it’s not cause healing sucks.

There was a post here on the forums a few weeks ago (either removed or lost since then; hard to tell with the spartan search options on these forums) that took in-game numbers with various levels of Healing Power and got the 10:1 and 20:1 ratios, only one of the skills (can’t recall which) got anywhere even close to 1:1. I haven’t focused on healing since trying it a month and a halkitteno similar results, maybe ANet changed it since then. That would surprise me.