Guild Wars 2

Being turned down for a dungeon run for the reason that I play an elementalist was a bit of a kick in the bawls today :/
i also seen a tourney group starting that didn’t want any elementalists

this is really only going to get worse from here i feel
In not way am i claiming i am an elitist but i play my class very well and have had a few compliments in sPvP from apposing teams and players as well. But to be denied into a group for a dungeon run because of the class i play :/

is anyone else getting this problem? or was this just a once of?
i am starting to fear that soon i will have to re-roll a different class just to experience level 80 content

I have never had it, but I know others have.

I’m not sure if it’s a reaction for the class being underpowered, if it’s a reaction for the class being too hard to play (it’s not the only one, after all), or a conscious idea that the chances of finding a really good elementalist for the sake of decent results is not worth it, when an half-good warrior or guardian can achieve the same or almost the same results, especially better results when they are good players.

The same people who don’t want elementalists are the ones who won’t go into a dungeon without a Guardian.

The ability to run anything with any class combination is enabled and supported in this game.

The problem you are writing about is one caused by players and their beliefs concerning how MMO should be played.

The good news is that this is cured by joining a guild where you can establish yourself as someone who plays well. I for one take the player and not the class whenever I organize runs.

My thoughts are these: GW2 content is not difficult in my experience. Anyone who thinks that it is necessary to exclude an entire profession from consideration in order to beat GW2 content is not someone you want to run with anyway.

This happens a lot, and it’s a direct reaction to other classes being able to do what an ele can and better.

Why take an ele when you can get an engineer with superior support, offense and heals? it’s a no brainer.

well i reached lvl 80 and got maxed gear both tank and dps and i can tell you… its not getting better… i rerolled a worriar (its VERY strong) and now i am rerolling a necro becouse i cant stand playing the game without magic
its not the same but well, the ele is so useless that yer… if i wanna play gw2 and want magic its either suckkitten becouse of class or go mes or necro. so necro for me.. butkitteni am throwing HATE on anets dev team for sucking so much at making the ele

Erebus.7568:

well i reached lvl 80 and got maxed gear both tank and dps and i can tell you… its not getting better… i rerolled a worriar (its VERY strong) and now i am rerolling a necro becouse i cant stand playing the game without magic
its not the same but well, the ele is so useless that yer… if i wanna play gw2 and want magic its either suckkitten becouse of class or go mes or necro. so necro for me.. butkitteni am throwing HATE on anets dev team for sucking so much at making the ele

The devs have done a great job at designing the ele, it just needs the right balance, which is hard to achieve with this profession. Elementalists were very strong during beta because they could kill really fast, and their burst damage was nerfed. This, unfortunately, was harsher than we wished it to be, and now we need to be compensated with some buffs somewhere.

parrk.4690:

The same people who don’t want elementalists are the ones who won’t go into a dungeon without a Guardian.

The ability to run anything with any class combination is enabled and supported in this game.

The problem you are writing about is one caused by players and their beliefs concerning how MMO should be played.

That can’t be correct, or else everyone would want the “traditional” dps mage, and only a handful few would want professions like the Mesmer. Anti-elementalist behaviour is the opposite of what you would see in traditional MMOs, and is clearly related with the current state of the profession.

parrk.4690:

My thoughts are these: GW2 content is not difficult in my experience. Anyone who thinks that it is necessary to exclude an entire profession from consideration in order to beat GW2 content is not someone you want to run with anyway.

^^

Also LOL I want to see a engi, mes, or necro toss out the damage to solo take out end boss C.o.F run, on first pass.

My guild runs it with whatever the players who are there want to use. We finish between 15-20 minutes no matter the profession involved(optimal team is less than 15 we shall time this weekend)

The problem with the profession just like the thieves and engi’s I have seen is not the professions themselves, but the players.

DonQuack.9025:

parrk.4690:

My thoughts are these: GW2 content is not difficult in my experience. Anyone who thinks that it is necessary to exclude an entire profession from consideration in order to beat GW2 content is not someone you want to run with anyway.

^^

Also LOL I want to see a engi, mes, or necro toss out the damage to solo take out end boss C.o.F run, on first pass.

My guild runs it with whatever the players who are there want to use. We finish between 15-20 minutes no matter the profession involved(optimal team is less than 15 we shall time this weekend)

The problem with the profession just like the thieves and engi’s I have seen is not the professions themselves, but the players.

Yeah yeah…it’s always a l2p issue isn’t it?, funny thing is 9 teams out of 10 run without an elementalist in tPvP , got proof of it, I’m almost Champion Magus just because I play with my guild but alas, people don’t take eles anymore in tPvP , it’s the only underepresented profession in PvP right now…of course it’s because of players am I right?…such arrogance…

Arheundel.6451:

DonQuack.9025:

parrk.4690:

My thoughts are these: GW2 content is not difficult in my experience. Anyone who thinks that it is necessary to exclude an entire profession from consideration in order to beat GW2 content is not someone you want to run with anyway.

^^

Also LOL I want to see a engi, mes, or necro toss out the damage to solo take out end boss C.o.F run, on first pass.

My guild runs it with whatever the players who are there want to use. We finish between 15-20 minutes no matter the profession involved(optimal team is less than 15 we shall time this weekend)

The problem with the profession just like the thieves and engi’s I have seen is not the professions themselves, but the players.

Yeah yeah…it’s always a l2p issue isn’t it?, funny thing is 9 teams out of 10 run without an elementalist in tPvP , got proof of it, I’m almost Champion Magus just because I play with my guild but alas, people don’t take eles anymore in tPvP , it’s the only underepresented profession in PvP right now…of course it’s because of players am I right?…such arrogance…

I like you.

I dont feel like i was being questioned about my skill but rather why take me as an ele when they could get a different class which does everything better then me.

It does come down to player skill i know, but i am being turned down for these groups without even a chance to prove my skill only based on the class that i choose to play.

Now did I say anything about tPvP? My only mention of gameplay type was C.o.F. PvE good sir. That may make me a carebear but I can only speak for what I know and since the O.P talked of being turned down on a dungeon run and spvp, I specifically talked of the one I knew.

I have been in many runs. I have seen many professions played badly, but then I have seen the same professions do wonderfully by different people.

People speak of thieves doing wonderfully but I consistently see them on their backside. People speak of engi’s doing wonderfully yet for *all*"that i have seen" of them all is see is drop turret throw grenades throw grenades throw grenades.

Now I should perhaps edit my original post to say “The problem is not always with the profession but sometimes it is the players”

note nowhere did I say I was personally good at anything I attribute any success and overall effectiveness to the teamwork and ability of my lovely guildmates. &helpful chaps/lasses on my friendslist

Why would I want an elementalist when I can bring another Warrior or Guardian? Why anyone want want to bring an inferior class is beyond me. Its the same reason during Vanilla WoW no one wanted Ret Paladins in groups.

Dabrixmgp.4758:

Why would I want an elementalist when I can bring another Warrior or Guardian? Why anyone want want to bring an inferior class is beyond me. Its the same reason during Vanilla WoW no one wanted Ret Paladins in groups.

Now the real question would be " Why is it just bring another warrior or guardian?" Ofcourse since that qoute didn’t include any other professions then it isn’t really elementalist specific is it?

My personal answer would be though " Because we can. " This is not wow vanilla, this is Gee Dubz 2, an bigger brother to Gee Dubz.

I have a level 80 Elementalist and I would trade her for a lvl 80 of any other class in a split second. I am inferior to just about anything when it comes to staying alive in dungeons and some of the best played Elementalists are still a handicap for your team in Spvp.

Jnaathra.6549:

I have a level 80 Elementalist and I would trade her for a lvl 80 of any other class in a split second. I am inferior to just about anything when it comes to staying alive in dungeons and some of the best played Elementalists are still a handicap for your team in Spvp.

Get a ranger T.A explorable. enjoy the poison is what I want to say xP instead I will say, … the grass is always greener…

While I think our class definitely needs more work, anyone that turns you down for something is either A: ignorant of how GW2 changes the mmo formula, specifcally that you don’t need certain class combinations to complete any content as long as the players are good. orrrr B: (and this makes more sense for spvp) they already had an elementalist on their team and wanted as much variety as possible, or are looking for some other specific class for a certain condition/boon and/or that meshes well with their existing combination. But still, they would’ve done well regardless.

I’ve definitely seen groups advertising for dungeons and tPVP that specifically state no elementalist. I find it annoying but I just start my own and go about my business.

I mind less in PVP as people often have certain team builds they are trying to accomplish that elementalist just may not fit into.

Havent seen that yet in Blackgate thank BOB!

All you other servers gonna hate but we don’t discriminate

this is becoming extremely frustrating and game breaking after asking if I could join a CoF group his initial response to me being ele was " Ehh " i’ve taken a screen shot below more as proof ( he then stated that he wanted someone more " tanky " but i got the feeling this was more of a nice way to so gtfo your an ele )

this is now extremely game breaking now that I am very limited to the amount of groups that will actually invite me! and its makeing it very hard to progress

it would be great if Anet gave some indication of when this is going to be looked at / or if it is at all going to be looked at all

or has there already been an indication? if so can anyone give me a link or point me in the right direction?

Yeah i’ve seen this in chat aswell (and when i went to the level 30 dungeon) – it’s really begining to be quite annoying and making me wonder should i re-roll while i’m still at a relatively low level (39).

I’d really love to hear Anets take on this issue (and yes it is an issue), but i don’t think we will.

Drizty.3872:

this is becoming extremely frustrating and game breaking after asking if I could join a CoF group his initial response to me being ele was " Ehh " i’ve taken a screen shot below more as proof ( he then stated that he wanted someone more " tanky " but i got the feeling this was more of a nice way to so gtfo your an ele )

this is now extremely game breaking now that I am very limited to the amount of groups that will actually invite me! and its makeing it very hard to progress

it would be great if Anet gave some indication of when this is going to be looked at / or if it is at all going to be looked at all

or has there already been an indication? if so can anyone give me a link or point me in the right direction?

Haha, that picture made me laugh. That guy you were whispering doesn’t know anything about this game. You can’t tell from somebody’s profession how tanky they’re going to be. There aren’t even actually tanks in this game at all! What he means by tanky is survivable, and you can’t tell that by somebody’s profession. My Ele is incredibly survivable. If he had asked for your build and it was fire/air, then I might be able to see that answer depending on the existing group comp, but that was just complete and utter stupidity and ignorance on his part.

Pinkerton.5643:

Drizty.3872:

this is becoming extremely frustrating and game breaking after asking if I could join a CoF group his initial response to me being ele was " Ehh " i’ve taken a screen shot below more as proof ( he then stated that he wanted someone more " tanky " but i got the feeling this was more of a nice way to so gtfo your an ele )

this is now extremely game breaking now that I am very limited to the amount of groups that will actually invite me! and its makeing it very hard to progress

it would be great if Anet gave some indication of when this is going to be looked at / or if it is at all going to be looked at all

or has there already been an indication? if so can anyone give me a link or point me in the right direction?

Haha, that picture made me laugh. That guy you were whispering doesn’t know anything about this game. You can’t tell from somebody’s profession how tanky they’re going to be. There aren’t even actually tanks in this game at all! What he means by tanky is survivable, and you can’t tell that by somebody’s profession. My Ele is incredibly survivable. If he had asked for your build and it was fire/air, then I might be able to see that answer depending on the existing group comp, but that was just complete and utter stupidity and ignorance on his part.

Low HP pool. Weak traits that do not synergize well across trait lines. Weak armor.

Sure you can tell if you know how the professions work.

To the OP hope you left feedback for arenanet on it.

Jnaathra.6549:

Pinkerton.5643:

Drizty.3872:

this is becoming extremely frustrating and game breaking after asking if I could join a CoF group his initial response to me being ele was " Ehh " i’ve taken a screen shot below more as proof ( he then stated that he wanted someone more " tanky " but i got the feeling this was more of a nice way to so gtfo your an ele )

this is now extremely game breaking now that I am very limited to the amount of groups that will actually invite me! and its makeing it very hard to progress

it would be great if Anet gave some indication of when this is going to be looked at / or if it is at all going to be looked at all

or has there already been an indication? if so can anyone give me a link or point me in the right direction?

Haha, that picture made me laugh. That guy you were whispering doesn’t know anything about this game. You can’t tell from somebody’s profession how tanky they’re going to be. There aren’t even actually tanks in this game at all! What he means by tanky is survivable, and you can’t tell that by somebody’s profession. My Ele is incredibly survivable. If he had asked for your build and it was fire/air, then I might be able to see that answer depending on the existing group comp, but that was just complete and utter stupidity and ignorance on his part.

Low HP pool. Weak traits that do not synergize well across trait lines. Weak armor.

Sure you can tell if you know how the professions work.

Low HP pool is the same HP pool as thieves and guardians.
Traits are not weak and of course they don’t synergize if you take all the 10% damage in x attunement ones. And armor rating doesn’t mean half as much as toughness. Combine toughness with defensive earth abilities, you’ve got a prettykittensurvivable Ele.

morrolan.9608:

To the OP hope you left feedback for arenanet on it.

I have not – how can i do this ? , it only lets me file bug reports in-game not actual feedback

Now that I have read your post I’m so grateful that I ply with my irl friends that don’t rly care which class I play as long as I’m not behaving like an idiot. I should rly make that support built to thank them>.<

Pinkerton.5643:

Low HP pool is the same HP pool as thieves and guardians.

Despite their higher armour, I feel that Thieves are squishier than Elementalists (Elementalists have things like Invulnerability coming out their ears). Guardians, on the other hand, have much higher armour, virtues, etc. Guardians have defense coming out their backsides and their ears, at the same time. A DPS Guardian can take hits better than a defense-oriented Elementalist. It is hard to argue that the Elementalist is not one of the squishiest professions in the game. Is that an issue? Heck no, but it is a fact.

Pinkerton.5643:

Low HP pool is the same HP pool as thieves and guardians.

But thieves hit like a truck from stealth. Their burst damage is greater than ours and their condition damage is better overall as well.

I find the OP’s issue surprising. I find that the ele can do more than other classes. In dungeons I prefer staff, and the amount of control skills on the staff that can be used to mitigate damage is pretty absurd. There’s Frozen Ground, Gust, Static Field, Unsteady Ground, and Shock Wave. That’s just control from the staff. There’s also Geyser and Healing Rain for healing allies, and those are water fields which can be used with Blast Finishers to create additional AoE healing, anyone every spammed Lightning Hammer 1 in a healing Rain? Additionally with the Staff you can permanently maintain swiftness with Windbourne Speed, Glyph of Elemental Harmony, and Elemental Attunement (the Arcana V trait).

I don’t see how people are saying Traits lack synergy or effectiveness. 5 points into the earth line nearly raises your armor 1 class giving 130 toughness at level 80. Elemental Attunement lets you give boons to yourself and your allies every 8-18 seconds (Arcana dependent). Rock Solid allows an ele to give Stability to allies for 2-2.6 seconds every 8-18 seconds (Arcana dependent). Healing Ripple is nice, so is Cleansing Wave. The 20% reduced recharge times are worth grabbing. There’s good traits, they’re there.

Then there’s the Control available from the Conjure Weapons Lightning Hammer, Frost Bow, and Earth Shield… Wind Blast, another Static Field, Frost Fan, Deep Freeze (amazing), Crippling Shield, Magnetic Surge, and Magnetic Shield. Plus Lightning Hammer’s 3rd attack in its chain is an AoE Blind, and Earth Shield’s got a 5 second invincibility. Oh and Conjure weapons are also created for allies, which can be picked up just to put the powerful skills on recharged then dropped to go back to a weapon set.

These conversations seem to arise because the Elementalist requires players to play more towards the high end of the skill cap to be effective, in fact the ele probably requires the most skill out of all the professions to be effective with. However, just because it requires a high degree of skill to be effective doesn’t mean it’s less effective than other professions when played skillfully. This just results in less people being effective with the profession. If the ele gets significant buffs to allow more of the player base to be effective by swapping attunements less and allowing players to be effective by being less adaptive then it’ll become one of the most used professions by skilled players who are very good at swapping attunements and adapting.

Making the Elementalist “better” requires walking a very fine line, because it can’t outshine all the other professions when played with at a high level of skill.

morrolan.9608:

Pinkerton.5643:

Low HP pool is the same HP pool as thieves and guardians.

But thieves hit like a truck from stealth. Their burst damage is greater than ours and their condition damage is better overall as well.

Thieves have the highest burst potential in the game thanks to their initiative system. And that’s precisely why they’re significantly squishier than we are. But I would have to disagree with you on the condition damage bit. They have poisons, sure, and a couple bleeds and whatnot, but a condition ele can have a huge burn plus 15-20 stacks of bleed on you at the same time. Thieves cannot come close to matching that. Come to think of it, a good condition ele can have huge burns on all enemies in the area, 15-20 stacks of bleed on one, and up to 10 stacks of bleed on every other enemy simultaneously. And we can hit like a truck, too. Make a fire build around fire grab and tell me there are no truck-based massacres involved.

And @Elric of Grans: Yes, elementalist IS one of the squishier professions in the game. And you’re right, it doesn’t matter. What I’m trying to say is that we’re nowhere near unbalanced squishy and we DO have enough damage potential to make up for it.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Erebus.7568:

well i reached lvl 80 and got maxed gear both tank and dps and i can tell you… its not getting better… i rerolled a worriar (its VERY strong) and now i am rerolling a necro becouse i cant stand playing the game without magic
its not the same but well, the ele is so useless that yer… if i wanna play gw2 and want magic its either suckkitten becouse of class or go mes or necro. so necro for me.. butkitteni am throwing HATE on anets dev team for sucking so much at making the ele

The devs have done a great job at designing the ele, it just needs the right balance, which is hard to achieve with this profession. Elementalists were very strong during beta because they could kill really fast, and their burst damage was nerfed. This, unfortunately, was harsher than we wished it to be, and now we need to be compensated with some buffs somewhere.

I didn’t get a chance to play beta but did watch some vids. But was the elementalist “that much” OP during beta? I just find it hard to believe honestly.

Who was complaining that the elementalist had too much power? I think the elementalist needs a touch more power and/or health

Expansive.3716:

I didn’t get a chance to play beta but did watch some vids. But was the elementalist “that much” OP during beta? I just find it hard to believe honestly.

Who was complaining that the elementalist had too much power? I think the elementalist needs a touch more power and/or health

Elementalists were strong in the betas because they could kill very fast. Their skills are easily avoidable, but when all of them connected, the target would die, kinda like a HB warrior. When they’re not enough to kill, the elementalist’s burst skills are put under a high recharge, and the elementalist player must rely on their active defenses and dodging, milking every little bit of damage they can in the meantime, until they are ready to attempt another deadly burst.

The playstyle is kind of like a timed bomb. You must place a lot of effort to kill fast, or else you’ll have to place a lot of effort to even survive.

However, the devs didn’t like how the elementalist could kill in 2-3 seconds. It’s easy to understand why such a thing would be unhealthy to the game, I guess because it wouldn’t give enough reaction time, and any decent elementalist player would decimate a newbie that was yet to learn how to dodge and etc for casual play. Anyways, our damage was nerfed, and now when we work hard to burst, we will connect less damage on average than any other profession at spamming 2-3 easy skills.

Because that explosive damage was our bread and butter, and because that explosive damage is unlikely to come back, we have to be compensated somewhere else. Maybe future buffs should give us better defense? More versatility/ meaningful options? Maybe more sustained damage, so that we can still be efficient at killing, just at a slower speed?

To note that those nerfs were specifically targetted at Scepter and OH Dagger burst skills. MH Dagger used to be pretty poor back then, has gotten a few small buffs, and is fairly “decent” now, compared to Scepter, but neither of them is efficient enough at killing to compensate for the extreme lack of defense we have, nor for how much time we spend switching attunements for the sake of our defense, while the opponent is there at full HP, waiting for our defenses to end and be put at high recharge, to kill us again in 2-3 hits.

Really? I’ve not played any instances and teh likes so far even though I’m lvl 60+ with my Ele but I hope it isn’t true though I have felt sort of “useless” when I seen other classes go at it but I figured it might change once we hit lvl 80…kitten maybe I should re-roll :/

Sounds like too many people not knowing how to master the class. So they are doing it wrong and causes the whole group to fail.

Why would you use PvE as a way to test a class strength, anyone can do PvE dungeons easily.

Good luck doing good as an Ele in a weekly/monthly tourny match, if you even get accepted, why would you bring an Ele if you can get a useful class instead?

Elementalists are weak. Plain and simple. They do ok in pve but at best can be average in pvp unless you are playing against scrubs. I re-rolled a thief and found them better in every area for pvp. Elementalists are glass bb guns.

As a long-time Shaman player in WoW, constantly proving wrong everybody’s convictions about the statistically minimal differences in class balance in every group I’ve been in…

You can either deal with it, get better, and prove these people wrong again and again while you wait for important balance changes to come along that will make you overpowered because of the skill you’ve developed…

Or you give up and reroll. Those of us with the fortitude to tough it out won’t miss you.

There’s builds out there that get the job done, even if you’re not the ideal profession choice. Get out there, find them, and beat classism early.

I didn’t read the whole thread but the reason you see that isn’t that ele are underpowered but that they are hard to play and therefore most ele are very bad.

I would hesitate to take an unknown ele on my dungeon run too. Not because the class is a handicap but because the PLAYER will probably be a handicap.

Any moron can play a warrior or guardian fine. It takes a certain amount of knowledge and ability to play an elementalist in a dungeon and not end up being a liability.

It also doesn’t help that staff support is the most viable dungeon build but staff support requires the REST of your team to know how to play WITH the spec to get the most out of it.

Basically ele are just really unfriendly to noob pickup groups so it’s no surprise people stay away from them in the noob pickup context.

If they are hard to play compared to other classes wouldn’t that make them under powered? If they have to work so much harder to achieve the same result?

Godna.4831:

If they are hard to play compared to other classes wouldn’t that make them under powered? If they have to work so much harder to achieve the same result?

Nah, we should just be happy that we have to mash 20 buttons to achieve what a Warrior can do with a single 100 blades so that we can brag about how we are so skilled that we can be as good as a Warrior that is only using one skill.

Godna.4831:

If they are hard to play compared to other classes wouldn’t that make them under powered? If they have to work so much harder to achieve the same result?

No. It means they’re hard to play. That doesn’t mean they’re underpowered when played decently. It certainly does mean a bad elementalist is underpowered compared to a bad warrior or guardian or ranger.

DiogoSilva.7089:

However, the devs didn’t like how the elementalist could kill in 2-3 seconds.

Yet they apparently don’t mind thief being able to do the same thing or a dps specced warrior for that matter.

Yukishiro.8792:

No. It means they’re hard to play. That doesn’t mean they’re underpowered when played decently. It certainly does mean a bad elementalist is underpowered compared to a bad warrior or guardian or ranger.

To me that says that the class is inherently underpowered, the fact that a good player can get past that limitation is pretty much irrelevant.

morrolan.9608:

To me that says that the class is inherently underpowered, the fact that a good player can get past that limitation is pretty much irrelevant.

o_O
O_o
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kitten did i just read

morrolan.9608:

Yukishiro.8792:

No. It means they’re hard to play. That doesn’t mean they’re underpowered when played decently. It certainly does mean a bad elementalist is underpowered compared to a bad warrior or guardian or ranger.

To me that says that the class is inherently underpowered, the fact that a good player can get past that limitation is pretty much irrelevant.

It’s… not at all irrelevant. “skill cap” has nothing to do with under/over-powered.

When are people going to learn the very simple concept that individual skill, has absolutely no bearing on class balance…

It’s not a difficult concept to grasp, yet “I can kill EVERYONE 1on1 and I can kill 5 champion mobs at the same time, with one finger only on my ele!!11!” is everywhere in these forums.

Stop the ego trip display and please show some intelligence.

I’ll repeat – individual player skill has no impact on class balance, none, zero, nada!

DrakeWurrum.6049:

It’s… not at all irrelevant. “skill cap” has nothing to do with under/over-powered.

But thats what I’m saying, if you compare players of similar skill on other classes and Ele always comes out behind then they are unbalanced. The fact that a skillful player can play Ele effectively says nothing about whether its unbalanced or not, its just a reflection of the players skill.

In BWE1 engineers were badly underpowered yet Teldo from Team Paradigm still did very well as an engineer.

The point is ele doesn’t come behind when the player is good. A good player on an ele will do about as well as a good player on another class.

The problem with ele is the skill floor – the minimum amount of skill needed to do well – is much higher than most other classes. It isn’t an issue of being underpowered, it’s an issue of it being too hard for bad players to do well.

Yukishiro.8792:

A good player on an ele will do about as well as a good player on another class.

No, it won’t. And I could write a nice long post on all the reasons why it isn’t so, but explaining something so obvious to people who refuse to understand, would be like trying to explain what blue is to a blind person.