Guild Wars 2

Lot’s of attention has been brought to dd ele and its going to literally gut Elementalists out of pvp. So I discussed some changes that should happen with DD ele WITHOUT touching water and arcane traits.

Cleansing fire trait should give 1 stacks of might per cantrip used instead of 3

Blinding Ashes should have 10 ICD

Drake’s breath should apply 3 stacks of burning instead of 4, and burning reduced from 3 1/2 to 3

Ring of fire burning stack reduced to 1 stack

Earth traitline is a different matter, but I found my friends agreeing to the changes that I proposed without touching water and arcane trait line, maybe Soothing Ice trait by removing the frost aura.

TheFamster.7806:

Lot’s of attention has been brought to dd ele and its going to literally gut Elementalists out of pvp.

All of this has happened before and it will happen again.

Yeah the fire line is the real issue I think. Blinding ashes is on a 10s ICD seems extremely reasonably imo. Also Ring of Fire might be fine with 2 stacks or else it just becomes like skill 4 on focus, lame.

I feel the opposite actually. Defenses in the Fire line as well as Air and Earth need to be better and Water and Arcana worse to balance it out a bit more. The ability to mitigate damage via blinds, and thus reduce the need to just heal through everything, is vital to promoting build diversity.

Nerfing Blinding Ashes and leaving Water and Arcana as is will just make sure Water and Arcana remain mandatory trait lines.

Ehecatl.9172:

I feel the opposite actually. Defenses in the Fire line as well as Air and Earth need to be better and Water and Arcana worse to balance it out a bit more. The ability to mitigate damage via blinds, and thus reduce the need to just heal through everything, is vital to promoting build diversity.

Nerfing Blinding Ashes and leaving Water and Arcana as is will just make sure Water and Arcana remain mandatory trait lines.

Water and arcane is already a mandatory. If you nerf it all eles die. However if you nerf fireline FA and Staff ele is still viable, while dd gets nerfed. People aren’t complaining about FA or STaff ele, its just dd

Any changes made should ONLY seek to target the ONE build that is problematic: cele d/d. Touching arcana and water will more than likely affect more than just that build… they should target the weapon skills not the traits.

TheFamster.7806:

Water and arcane is already a mandatory. If you nerf it all eles die. However if you nerf fireline FA and Staff ele is still viable, while dd gets nerfed. People aren’t complaining about FA or STaff ele, its just dd

I know Water and Arcana are already mandatory. I said if those trait lines are never touched they will remain mandatory forever. With how strong they are you need to take a little away from it before adding more to the other trait lines, but taking away from the other trait lines to make said line’s combo with Water and Arcana weaker does the opposite.

Elementalists need sustain options that don’t revolve around healing through damage. Nerfing the non-healing oriented sustain options will make it harder to improve build diversity in the long run.

Drake’s Breath doesn’t need a nerf. Water isn’t mandatory and neither will arcane be when tempest comes out.

I won´t touch blindign ashes This will kill other builds that don´t use water/arcane for sustain.
I also don´t agree not to touch water/arcane. But this is so dangerous if not done well that it might kick the whole ele class out of any non PvE meta.
Making cantrips not mandatory and adapting mainhand dagger, after it got to much out of the burning damage, would be the way. Removing might from cantrips is good and drakes breath to 3 stacks also. RoF to 1 stack would be OK but already hiting S/D builds which is not good.
And yes. Tempest is realy an option here. Many complain about tempest, but its design is fine. Its close to do a very good job with its shouts and i will go away from W/Ar with it.

First of all they have to remove burning speed evade.
You can’t get free evades, on top of free blinds, and free might and free burst.
Then free stuns, free chills, free heals? free stability! free condi removal!!
Time to reroll mesmer ele players lmao
pvp in a nutshell

Sadly, you don’t bait people off of a proven winner by improving the rest of the kit so much they shift of their own accord. People only move willingly when it takes them somewhere better, and D/D has lost that maneuvering room.

You could expect some improvements to the Ele’s lowest performing goods to create more variety in where people land, but the peak of the mountain top is gonna get sheered off.

I would remove cele amulet from sPvP ^^.

Once again, if you want to fix D/D, you have to nerf the daggers, not utilities or traits. Changing the traits above are going to kitten up staff.

Remove all blast components to all D/D weapon skills.

Remove the evade from Burning Speed

Remove Blinding ashes or give it an ICD of 30 seconds to kill it

Remove Burn Stacking

Forgot to say:

Remove blast finishers off dodges

TheFamster.7806:

Ehecatl.9172:

I feel the opposite actually. Defenses in the Fire line as well as Air and Earth need to be better and Water and Arcana worse to balance it out a bit more. The ability to mitigate damage via blinds, and thus reduce the need to just heal through everything, is vital to promoting build diversity.

Nerfing Blinding Ashes and leaving Water and Arcana as is will just make sure Water and Arcana remain mandatory trait lines.

Water and arcane is already a mandatory. If you nerf it all eles die. However if you nerf fireline FA and Staff ele is still viable, while dd gets nerfed. People aren’t complaining about FA or STaff ele, its just dd

That’s the problem: Water and Arcane are mandatory. Our healing and ability cadence are tied far too strongly to them. If you took some of the defense out of Water and Arcane and spread it into the other Trait lines, then they would become less mandatory and you’d actually be able to apply targeted nerfs to the one Ele build that’s causing problems without resulting in too much collateral damage.

Cele Ele is OP, but it should not be entirely killed off as a build. I get that people are (rightfully) frustrated with how much this build overperforms, but gutting it is not the answer.

Start with nerfs to burning as a general condition FIRST. That’s the simplest way of bringing this one build down without ruining other builds.

Next steps would be slightly toning down how much might you get from traits like Burning Fire.

As long as nobody here mentions Cantrips & their trait synergy with Soothing Disruption and Burning Fire, their arguments about “nerfing D/D cele Ele” are moot.
Those are the backbone of the performance of the build so many complain about.

T raw.4658:

Remove all blast components to all D/D weapon skills.

Remove the evade from Burning Speed

Remove Blinding ashes or give it an ICD of 30 seconds to kill it

Remove Burn Stacking

Forgot to say:

Remove blast finishers off dodges

Okay, this one made me literally LOL

Might from burning fire is too strong, needs to be gutted. this should be defensive instead.

Nerf Signet of Renewal. Give a much bigger heal and much longer cooldown to ether renewal.

Nerf major burnstacking skills across all classes that have them, or drastically lower the scaling of burning and condition damage.

Put RTL on a 20sec cd baseline, regardless of hit.
Lower the recharge on burning speed.
Lower the recharge on lightning flash.

It’s arcane. It synergizes with everything else so well that you have to take it. It makes the spec. The third minor should be a gm trait. Choose between evasive arcana and a reduced attunement cd. Putting them together is too good.

Wolfric.9380:

I would remove cele amulet from sPvP ^^.

Thank god you are not in charge of making decisions for PvP balance than….

what a pointless idea.

Well second time sarcasm is not detected…
My PvP experience is to low to make such decisions. But it was not there before and it would be the same for all.
So please declare why this is pointless. Is celestial amulet important for sPvP balance or does i just push one or two classes which are top tier or OP?

Wolfric.9380:

Well second time sarcasm is not detected…
My PvP experience is to low to make such decisions. But it was not there before and it would be the same for all.
So please declare why this is pointless. Is celestial amulet important for sPvP balance or does i just push one or two classes which are top tier or OP?

Ele would still be OP without the cele amulet… it just happens to be optimal for the build…

They are would still be OP in knights, settlers, soliders, any really…..

Amulet has nothing to do with their OPness….

There are other classes that use Cele amulet and are finely tuned like cele rifle engis or cele signet necros… taking away an amulet is just pointless in the grand scheme of things… all it does it take away from other viable cele builds..

SkiTz.4590:

Wolfric.9380:

Well second time sarcasm is not detected…
My PvP experience is to low to make such decisions. But it was not there before and it would be the same for all.
So please declare why this is pointless. Is celestial amulet important for sPvP balance or does i just push one or two classes which are top tier or OP?

Ele would still be OP without the cele amulet… it just happens to be optimal for the build…

They are would still be OP in knights, settlers, soliders, any really…..

Amulet has nothing to do with their OPness….

There are other classes that use Cele amulet and are finely tuned like cele rifle engis or cele signet necros… taking away an amulet is just pointless in the grand scheme of things… all it does it take away from other viable cele builds..

Gl recovering from condi damage burst with settle/knight
Gl recovering from dmg with amulet that lack healing power and a SoR sitting at 202 hit point for sec
Gl doing any damage given the ele extremely low dmg coefficients..

I tell you what, go play knight/soldier/settler ele vs decent players and tell us how it goes

The best one was knight ele…hmm lol

Supreme.3164:

SkiTz.4590:

Wolfric.9380:

Well second time sarcasm is not detected…
My PvP experience is to low to make such decisions. But it was not there before and it would be the same for all.
So please declare why this is pointless. Is celestial amulet important for sPvP balance or does i just push one or two classes which are top tier or OP?

Ele would still be OP without the cele amulet… it just happens to be optimal for the build…

They are would still be OP in knights, settlers, soliders, any really…..

Amulet has nothing to do with their OPness….

There are other classes that use Cele amulet and are finely tuned like cele rifle engis or cele signet necros… taking away an amulet is just pointless in the grand scheme of things… all it does it take away from other viable cele builds..

Gl recovering from condi damage burst with settle/knight
Gl recovering from dmg with amulet that lack healing power and a SoR sitting at 202 hit point for sec
Gl doing any damage given the ele extremely low dmg coefficients..

I tell you what, go play knight/soldier/settler ele vs decent players and tell us how it goes

The best one was knight ele…hmm lol

Condi damage burst survival has nothing to do with amulet – thats purely from water line….

recovering of damage…. again water line….that is the biggest source of healing. dodge rolling in water, attuning to water, water 5, regen application, etc etc…. you realize they can replace SoR with another heal skill right? its not the absolute must have…WATER is the must have.

doing any damage? you do realize what kind of might stacking rotation d/d ele has right? that is where the main source of damage is coming from – burns and ramped up might stacking because d/d ele has one of the better might stacking rotations. …

Supreme.3164:

SkiTz.4590:

Wolfric.9380:

Well second time sarcasm is not detected…
My PvP experience is to low to make such decisions. But it was not there before and it would be the same for all.
So please declare why this is pointless. Is celestial amulet important for sPvP balance or does i just push one or two classes which are top tier or OP?

Ele would still be OP without the cele amulet… it just happens to be optimal for the build…

They are would still be OP in knights, settlers, soliders, any really…..

Amulet has nothing to do with their OPness….

There are other classes that use Cele amulet and are finely tuned like cele rifle engis or cele signet necros… taking away an amulet is just pointless in the grand scheme of things… all it does it take away from other viable cele builds..

Gl recovering from condi damage burst with settle/knight
Gl recovering from dmg with amulet that lack healing power and a SoR sitting at 202 hit point for sec
Gl doing any damage given the ele extremely low dmg coefficients..

I tell you what, go play knight/soldier/settler ele vs decent players and tell us how it goes

The best one was knight ele…hmm lol

Condi damage burst survival has nothing to do with amulet – thats purely from water line….

recovering of damage…. again water line….that is the biggest source of healing. dodge rolling in water, attuning to water, water 5, regen application, etc etc…. you realize they can replace SoR with another heal skill right? its not the absolute must have…WATER is the must have.

doing any damage? you do realize what kind of might stacking rotation d/d ele has right? that is where the main source of damage is coming from – burns and ramped up might stacking because d/d ele has one of the better might stacking rotations. …

Taking out Cele amulet doesn’t hurt Ele enough….thats a minimal change…it hurts other classes FAR more than it does Ele…so again, its a stupid idea to just take out cele amulet…. i HIGHLY doubt anet does anything with the amulet outside a number tweak.

Again, the only real way to nerf d/d ele without touching other builds much is to target the one thing that is different: the weapon. Why staff or focus or scepter aren’t as good with the same amulet? There is where you need to look at. Scepter, staff and focus are far from broken so don’t lash out at what will also affect them.

TheFamster.7806:

Lot’s of attention has been brought to dd ele and its going to literally gut Elementalists out of pvp. So I discussed some changes that should happen with DD ele WITHOUT touching water and arcane traits.

Cleansing fire trait should give 1 stacks of might per cantrip used instead of 3

Blinding Ashes should have 10 ICD

Drake’s breath should apply 3 stacks of burning instead of 4, and burning reduced from 3 1/2 to 3

Ring of fire burning stack reduced to 1 stack

Earth traitline is a different matter, but I found my friends agreeing to the changes that I proposed without touching water and arcane trait line, maybe Soothing Ice trait by removing the frost aura.

Where did you get all this info from? I can’t seem to find any mention of Ele nerfs in the patchnotes.

Ele is not op. Anet’s stat changes in trait line caused other profs to lose based healing and tough. Also the reduction of healing in celestial greatly weakened Engi and War. Ele it’s an issue I suggest fixing the stats in jewelry or allow the old accessories split 1/3 is gem and 2/3 is necklace so you can mix attributes. That’s the real issue. Also lots of people complain but their are many builds that defeats d/d ele for example Mesmer rupts, signet necro, mace and shield gs warrior, competent guardian, condi ranger axe/dagger with sword and torch. Or a clever power ranger since 1v1 is not RA. DP can ele if he chills his chill and boon steals and rupts. All you have to do is stun or imobilzie rinse and repeat.

L2p issue

Nerf Burning Speed radius so eles have to actually pay attention to range. It’s really dumb when they charge past you with Burning Speed and still manage to hit because the radius is massive.

Hmm scepter needs a bit buff, mainhand dagger a bit down.

What if daggers burning speed is swaped with scepters dragon tooth?

warherox.7943:

Nerf Burning Speed radius so eles have to actually pay attention to range. It’s really dumb when they charge past you with Burning Speed and still manage to hit because the radius is massive.

Whoever decent enough get even hit by burning speed?

If out of endurance it happens ^^.

Supreme.3164:

warherox.7943:

Nerf Burning Speed radius so eles have to actually pay attention to range. It’s really dumb when they charge past you with Burning Speed and still manage to hit because the radius is massive.

Whoever decent enough get even hit by burning speed?

it depends on how skillful the ele is with burning speed.

Its easy to avoid the burning speed coming right at you… just dodge out the way…

But its tough to avoid the burning speed → lightning flash on top of you…that you can’t do much about unless you can perfectly time dodge when the ele teleports.

SkiTz.4590:

Supreme.3164:

warherox.7943:

Nerf Burning Speed radius so eles have to actually pay attention to range. It’s really dumb when they charge past you with Burning Speed and still manage to hit because the radius is massive.

Whoever decent enough get even hit by burning speed?

it depends on how skillful the ele is with burning speed.

Its easy to avoid the burning speed coming right at you… just dodge out the way…

But its tough to avoid the burning speed -> lightning flash on top of you…that you can’t do much about unless you can perfectly time dodge when the ele teleports.

The ele is in fire…and at distance from you, that much is already enough information to decide the rest

dmg (burn) is just slightly OP. Sustain needs to be hit hard, its the real problem. water/arcana – crit-hit those lines with a huge nerf-hammer earthshaker. Eles are OP because no class can kill them, and even 2v1 ele can out-sustain almost indefinitely with timely disengage/re-engage (at full health after 4 secs ) and/or kiting a bit. 3v1 it still takes a lot of time and ele still has a excellent chance of just disengaging.

Like 30% less sustain overall is good start (30% nerf in sustain – ele is still meta, probably strongest class, but you have a chance to beat one if you play better). Every class (outside full bunkers ofc) should be able to kill the ele, and ele should be able to kill every other class (thats why you dont want to nerf ele dmg too much). Let skill be deciding factor. Any build i ever played i could always go into a fight against any other class and have a good chance of winning if i play better (maybe a few individual hard counters here and there). Except for ele, ele just outheals (outsustains) everything with minimal effort and eventually you die, skill never comes into play.

Slight burn nerf, massive sustain nerf – winning combination

Waisenpai.6028:

Ele is not op. Anet’s stat changes in trait line caused other profs to lose based healing and tough. Also the reduction of healing in celestial greatly weakened Engi and War. Ele it’s an issue I suggest fixing the stats in jewelry or allow the old accessories split 1/3 is gem and 2/3 is necklace so you can mix attributes. That’s the real issue. Also lots of people complain but their are many builds that defeats d/d ele for example Mesmer rupts, signet necro, mace and shield gs warrior, competent guardian, condi ranger axe/dagger with sword and torch. Or a clever power ranger since 1v1 is not RA. DP can ele if he chills his chill and boon steals and rupts. All you have to do is stun or imobilzie rinse and repeat.

L2p issue

You’re right. Ele is not OP. arcane/water celestial cantrip ele is. For such a high sustain build, it should not have the amount of damage it currently has. At least back in the day bunker eles hit like a wet noodle to make up for its high amount of sustain.

You compare ele to potential counters from OTHER classes, but have you stopped to think about what options that an ele not running the Ar/W/X cele build has against one that is runing it? The build is almost faceroll to the point where missing skillshots like burning speed and fire grab hardly matters at all.

This build needs a nerf, and the others needs a buff.

Alwasy said hit soothing disruption by removing regen from it an increase vigor.
And remove might from burning fire.

I hope this class gets gutted

Just thought I’d throw this in:

I made an ele, learned d/d build in 2 hours, and near effortlessly beat a shatter mesmer in a 1v1 twice. Then I proceeded to 1v1 a very experienced sword/shield & longbow warrior for about 2-4 minutes before finally retreating (and surviving). I played very poorly (got hit by nearly all of his sword flurries, and got bursted every time I came out of water) and still survived for that long…

Stilgar.6437:

dmg (burn) is just slightly OP. Sustain needs to be hit hard, its the real problem. water/arcana – crit-hit those lines with a huge nerf-hammer earthshaker. Eles are OP because no class can kill them, and even 2v1 ele can out-sustain almost indefinitely with timely disengage/re-engage (at full health after 4 secs ) and/or kiting a bit. 3v1 it still takes a lot of time and ele still has a excellent chance of just disengaging.

Like 30% less sustain overall is good start (30% nerf in sustain – ele is still meta, probably strongest class, but you have a chance to beat one if you play better). Every class (outside full bunkers ofc) should be able to kill the ele, and ele should be able to kill every other class (thats why you dont want to nerf ele dmg too much). Let skill be deciding factor. Any build i ever played i could always go into a fight against any other class and have a good chance of winning if i play better (maybe a few individual hard counters here and there). Except for ele, ele just outheals (outsustains) everything with minimal effort and eventually you die, skill never comes into play.

Slight burn nerf, massive sustain nerf – winning combination

Skill based?
The ele sustain should switch focus from passive to active, the only way eles win currently is by outs-ustaining the enemy with passive traits as the damage is so subpar that an ele would never win in a quick fight.

With no burst potential whatsoever the only way to win is through attrition; by switching sustain from passive( traits ) to active( block/evades on moderate CD) and increasing the damage potential, an ele would have a concrete chance to win fights other than by out-sustaining the opponent.

To simply ask to keep the subpar damage while removing the sustain…it’s ridiculous

My post helped them a lot! Elementalitst won’t get gutted at all! Yay us!

Anet just cant balance the elementalist right:
problems with d/d ele was its regen/condi cleanse, not it’s burning.
Burning damage was a global problem, and it is much worse on guardian than on ele and you didn’t even nerf it there? Guardian ticks can go over 6k/second.

Now the fire line is back to being a crappy line for the wrong reason and might on cantrips, which was essential for staff builds using fire (just to keep damage on par with air line) has been nerfed because of d/d problems.

is it me or did d/d ele not get nerfed nearly enough?

mistsim.2748:

is it me or did d/d ele not get nerfed nearly enough?

Yeah that was hardly a nerf and as someone said previously the problem is their ridiculous sustain… and that was unaddressed.

Arcaedus.7290:

Just thought I’d throw this in:

I made an ele, learned d/d build in 2 hours, and near effortlessly beat a shatter mesmer in a 1v1 twice. Then I proceeded to 1v1 a very experienced sword/shield & longbow warrior for about 2-4 minutes before finally retreating (and surviving). I played very poorly (got hit by nearly all of his sword flurries, and got bursted every time I came out of water) and still survived for that long…

That shatter Mesmer must be super bad …lol go fight a PU. Warrior was super bad too for using condi swords on anyone with clears. A Mace Shield / Great sword warrior would have killed you in a chain or a longbow GS warrior. The nerf was meant for spvp since people are crying before they show you infinite regen engis and ranger celestials.. it’s a bunk war lol. Burn nerf is mine but cantrip nerf is stupid… I rather they change the function. My bet is they have to re-work things after the Rev and new celestial profs/zerkers gain to much of a power and condition creep.

Xillllix.3485:

Anet just cant balance the elementalist right:
problems with d/d ele was its regen/condi cleanse, not it’s burning.
Burning damage was a global problem, and it is much worse on guardian than on ele and you didn’t even nerf it there? Guardian ticks can go over 6k/second.

Now the fire line is back to being a crappy line for the wrong reason and might on cantrips, which was essential for staff builds using fire (just to keep damage on par with air line) has been nerfed because of d/d problems.

Change GM trait if you want might in fire line that bad…

Xillllix.3485:

Anet just cant balance the elementalist right:
problems with d/d ele was its regen/condi cleanse, not it’s burning.
Burning damage was a global problem, and it is much worse on guardian than on ele and you didn’t even nerf it there? Guardian ticks can go over 6k/second.

Now the fire line is back to being a crappy line for the wrong reason and might on cantrips, which was essential for staff builds using fire (just to keep damage on par with air line) has been nerfed because of d/d problems.

Quite honestly, I am happy that the staff build got hit too. It was boring and MUCH too powerful for what it is.

Xillllix.3485:

Anet just cant balance the elementalist right:
problems with d/d ele was its regen/condi cleanse, not it’s burning.
Burning damage was a global problem, and it is much worse on guardian than on ele and you didn’t even nerf it there? Guardian ticks can go over 6k/second.

Now the fire line is back to being a crappy line for the wrong reason and might on cantrips, which was essential for staff builds using fire (just to keep damage on par with air line) has been nerfed because of d/d problems.

It was a perfect balance for dd ele. Staff fire build was very minor and hardly used at all, let alone be viable. Problem with dd ele was its crazy amount of burn application and damage through might stack (rotation, cantrip, and even sunspot trait) that lead to perma 25 stacks of might. Fire line isn’t crappy at all, it just got what it deserved. If you dig carefully through thread, people want dd eles to have their damage nerfed since they literally have mobility, condi cleanse, team support, sustain, and damage.

People have come to terms with dd ele’s sustain because it is a class design. There is no mention of other build having so much sustain even cleric staff. No one ever says S/F or S/D ele has too much sustain even when they run the exact same arcane and water trait, and cleric staff/settler staff build has very little health pool (11k) so they literally get eaten by condi bombs.

The problem with elementalist build was that other builds in pvp were far too weak compared to that 1 spec that is dd ele, and dd ele build was so godly that no other profession could have possibility matched it other than a necro. Now if they left water and arcane as it is Elementalists could have spots in PvP, but if they touched it in anyway, Elementalists would die.

TLDR:
1. DD elementalist was the only complain about pvp elementalist build
2. People wanted DD elementalist to pick 3 out of 2, sustain/damage/mobilty
3. The fireline only hurt DD ele because it literally was only used by DD elementalists.

forum bug needs to be fixed