Guild Wars 2

Blaine Tog.8304:

WvW is a similar situation. If you can get a group of 5 or 10 or 15 people to chase you for 5 or 10 minutes, you’ve effectively stolen 20 or 45 or 70 minutes from the enemy server. Honestly, that could well be better than killing them since it often won’t take that long for them to rejoin a zerg or run supplies. And if they don’t chase you, then you’re still left alive behind enemy lines, able to zip around and take out yaks, maybe even solo camps if you’re built for it. I’m not saying being able to escape is OP, but it is a victory of sorts.

So many lies….

1) ANY www player knows that the game is not “Killing the elementalist” but getting resources, keeps, Towers and stuff.
Any commander will remind that any time people follows a roamer that is not a threat….

2) what you describe is what THIEVES do with impunity…..because differently from ele, they cannot be ignored due to their damage.

3) nobody wins 1VS5 or 1VS10…..only bad players….there are similar vids in EACH profession forum…ranger, necro, thief, guardian, warrior….

4) if ele can do that (cannot but lets pretend) thief needs to be deleted from the game being able to do the same with less effort and much much more….
What about rangers? and also some other professions.

5) bunker ele is BAD in zergs and was only a thief counter in WWW…..now is a combo fields npc bot…..
A ranger pet is much better than an ele

6) and most important it was already official ele was not a www issue but only a pvp one and is UP in pvE…

This is just bad propaganda….most www clans didn t accept D/D ele already….they wanted staff.

LordByron.8369:

1) ANY www player knows that the game is not “Killing the elementalist” but getting resources, keeps, Towers and stuff.
Any commander will remind that any time people follows a roamer that is not a threat….

Absolutely. I completely agree. That’s why being able to escape at will is so strong: it means you’re better able to do that consistently. It’s also why being able to bait poorer players into chasing you is so strong: because anyone can run supplies.

LordByron.8369:

2) what you describe is what THIEVES do with impunity…..because differently from ele, they cannot be ignored due to their damage.

I explicitly said being able to escape isn’t necessarily OP. It’s fine for professions to be able to do it, but it needs to be tuned (like all strengths).

For example, let’s say the D/D Ele’s bunkering ability and escape potential were so strong that they could always kill yaks and get away regardless of how many players were there trying to stop them. You send a D/D Ele to each supply camp and have them kill yaks as they spawn, guaranteed. Except now every server has to do this just to maintain parity with the servers that started it and the only way anyone gets yaks to deliver supplies anywhere is if the Eles get bored and leave. If that’s too much bunkering ability but some bunkering is ok, then all that’s left to ANet is to find the right level… which is what they’re doing.

LordByron.8369:

3) nobody wins 1VS5 or 1VS10…..only bad players….there are similar vids in EACH profession forum…ranger, necro, thief, guardian, warrior….

Any 1vX that takes more than a minute or two is a win for the 1, with few exceptions. Taking a small zerg to swat a pesky thief who’s whacking your keep to keep the waypoint locked is a win for the thief even if you kill him because he successfully distracted your zerg. Again, because apparently this wasn’t clear enough in my first post, I’m not saying the ability to troll zergs is inherently OP. I’m just saying it’s a strength. In the case of thieves, they have to give up a number of things to get their burst and stealth. For example (and please don’t get fixated on one example), Thief Shortbow pales in comparison to Ele Staff in a zerg fight. Trade-offs like this are good for the game.

LordByron.8369:

6) and most important it was already official ele was not a www issue but only a pvp one and is UP in pvE…

You’re mostly right. I would argue that the D/D Ele’s ability to troll a zerg was (probably still is) extremely strong, but that’s more a general result of an excess of boons making almost anyone borderline unkillable combined with the generally low number of ways to remove them. The Ele is certainly UP in PvE. I feel like you probably haven’t read my previous posts in this thread.

Blaine Tog.8304:

You’re mostly right. I would argue that the D/D Ele’s ability to troll a zerg was (probably still is) extremely strong, but that’s more a general result of an excess of boons making almost anyone borderline unkillable combined with the generally low number of ways to remove them. The Ele is certainly UP in PvE. I feel like you probably haven’t read my previous posts in this thread.

i still can t understand what you are talking about….
Who ever is trolled by a 300 dmg normal hit profession? (bunker ele)

Ele is the profession that has to pay the highest price to roam…

you either went GC/balanced and obviously you could deal only with thieves….
Or you went bunker and you could just TAG some players.

Wich is the price for that?
Being useless near ANY SORT OF STRUCTURE due to being locked in short range.

AND

Being useless in zerg wars due to capless area denial of certain professions, and the skills preventing you to keep the pace as the zerg….

Thus becoming the least versatile profession….

The funny thing is as a roamer D/D could only kill thieves…..and had his counterbuild itself being mesmers.

Find me a class with more downsides in WWW…..

D/D ele was OP for map completion….that is all it was really good at.

What is D/D role nowaday?

Best AoE?
necro and mesmer

Best bunkers?
guardian/warriors

Best roamers?
Thieves, mesmers (well post patch may be not the case) rangers.

Best support? nerf take care of that too now focus is useless.

What is an ele supposed to do in www?
read www server tactics and you will be more disgusted than me…
The buffbot with fields…..

No TY! i m not an utility skill for your character to have fun….i want to PLAY www too.

P.S. nor you read my posts when i quoted devs about ele in www being average…..(well at least is what people understood because they use a silly wording that not even native english speakers seemed to fully understand).
They said the issue was PvP

Kontrolle.3514:

I switched to D/D ele from engineer because compared to the laughable D/D Ele nerf engineers got literally kitten by the nerfbat. Meanwhile i laugh at all the tears here…

Imagine they would have deleted evaisive arcane, elemental attunement got a 20 icd and 30% of your dmg abillitys got cut in half. Thats just half of the treatment engineers got since release. So your crying looks a little bit ridiculous.

I made just 1 little adaption, i change the elite to fiery greatsword, thats it.
And lol this is one powerful elite.

indeed it is
I now swapped to a Staff aoe build and it kills everything in sight very quickly. Is fun to do but it won’t work for pvp I think…. Haven’t actually tried it yet

Kontrolle.3514:

I switched to D/D ele from engineer because compared to the laughable D/D Ele nerf engineers got literally kitten by the nerfbat. Meanwhile i laugh at all the tears here…

Imagine they would have deleted evaisive arcane, elemental attunement got a 20 icd and 30% of your dmg abillitys got cut in half. Thats just half of the treatment engineers got since release. So your crying looks a little bit ridiculous.

I made just 1 little adaption, i change the elite to fiery greatsword, thats it.
And lol this is one powerful elite.

You crying about engy is equally ridiculous, dunno where you’ve been recently but most top team now run engy, sPvP are full of engy and engy everywhere in WvWvW.
A condition burst engy deal 50% more dmg than my burst ele, way more easily and way shorted CD, the supply crate is a Iwin elite and you can immobilize a target for 12s+ if you want on top of being able to apply all 6 conditions in one go with ease…

Honestly, I don’t even know where to begin in my response. I just… your post is a disorganized mess full of sound and fury. I guess I’ll do my best but I don’t feel as if you are presenting a unified argument.

LordByron.8369:

Who ever is trolled by a 300 dmg normal hit profession? (bunker ele)

Zergs. Zergs are trolled. You know most people just spam the “target nearest enemy” button in zerg fights, because it’s too easy to accidentally click on an ally if you’re trying to single someone out? I see D/D eles dive into the middle of zergs all the time and cause all kinds of disruption and distraction as the whole zerg beats on them unsuccessfully. And I’m on Dragonbrand, a Tier 2 server.

And lest we forget, Vapor Form makes blasting into zergs completely consequence-free if you do it right.

LordByron.8369:

Wich is the price for that?
Being useless near ANY SORT OF STRUCTURE due to being locked in short range.

So you switch to staff. There’s plenty of time to break aggro.

LordByron.8369:

P.S. nor you read my posts when i quoted devs about ele in www being average…..(well at least is what people understood because they use a silly wording that not even native english speakers seemed to fully understand).
They said the issue was PvP

Ok, but I ’m not the one accusing you of lying and propoganda.

Blaine Tog.8304:

To be blunt, I don’t think you understand tactics in this game very well.

In PvP, being able to escape from anything is quite a strength. The key resource in that game mode is time. Wasting the enemy’s time is an extremely good strategy. If you can hold a point 1v2 or even 1v3, your team should pretty much auto-win… unless the enemy has someone just like you who’s doing the same thing to another point. Further, being able to choose your engagements is very, very strong. If you can get someone to waste time chasing you, all the better.

I specifically stated that the complaints regarding escaping and re-setting were in NON-sPvP. And if you’re going to imply I don’t understand tactics, then edify me. How exactly is an Ele escaping OFF the point because three people are trying to take it an example of good strategy? They still take it. Hence the strategy, at least in sPvP of escaping and re-setting is a bad one. Which is why I specifically mentioned non-sPvP. IN PvP, the strength of the Ele was bunkering down on the point, but that was a function of healing and boons, which have nothing to do with “escape mobility.”

In PvP, the maps are generally small enough, the points close together enough, and the points themselves small enough that using one leap or teleport puts you off the point, making mobility less valuable than the ability to stay on point. While the idea of “wasting the enemy’s time” is in fact a good strategy, any class using skills to extend and escape from a fight are not wasting that time because they’re no longer on point.

WvW is a similar situation. If you can get a group of 5 or 10 or 15 people to chase you for 5 or 10 minutes, you’ve effectively stolen 20 or 45 or 70 minutes from the enemy server. Honestly, that could well be better than killing them since it often won’t take that long for them to rejoin a zerg or run supplies. And if they don’t chase you, then you’re still left alive behind enemy lines, able to zip around and take out yaks, maybe even solo camps if you’re built for it. I’m not saying being able to escape is OP, but it is a victory of sorts.

Yes, it can be, and is frequently the subject of many famous YouTube videos. The problem is, by ANet nerfing the ability for the Ele to heal and be mobile, they’ve removed that as a valid option for the Ele profession in general. The fact that those two facets of gameplay are the only real defense an Ele has compounds the problem. Especially when you consider their stated desire to improve other facets of the profession to compete with the D/D bunker build, when in reality their nerfs only made that build more necessary and marginalized every other build even further.

Boomslang.4352:

Saw a lot of D/D eles giving away bags in WvW. I guess they were testing if they can still facetank 5 people, kill three, MF-RtL away then double-back to kill the remaining two.

I hope they learned that they’re mortals now just like everyone else and learn to adapt.

+1

Blaine Tog.8304:

Honestly, I don’t even know where to begin in my response. I just… your post is a disorganized mess full of sound and fury. I guess I’ll do my best but I don’t feel as if you are presenting a unified argument.

LordByron.8369:

Who ever is trolled by a 300 dmg normal hit profession? (bunker ele)

Zergs. Zergs are trolled. You know most people just spam the “target nearest enemy” button in zerg fights, because it’s too easy to accidentally click on an ally if you’re trying to single someone out? I see D/D eles dive into the middle of zergs all the time and cause all kinds of disruption and distraction as the whole zerg beats on them unsuccessfully. And I’m on Dragonbrand, a Tier 2 server.

And lest we forget, Vapor Form makes blasting into zergs completely consequence-free if you do it right.

LordByron.8369:

Wich is the price for that?
Being useless near ANY SORT OF STRUCTURE due to being locked in short range.

So you switch to staff. There’s plenty of time to break aggro.

LordByron.8369:

P.S. nor you read my posts when i quoted devs about ele in www being average…..(well at least is what people understood because they use a silly wording that not even native english speakers seemed to fully understand).
They said the issue was PvP

Ok, but I ’m not the one accusing you of lying and propoganda.

Never seen a zerg unable to kill a single d/d ele jumping in the middle of it, I constantly see these eles rushing head down only to be killed instantly, those elese are nothing more than fotm players using the same rotation over and over:

-shocking aura-rtl-updraft- kill nothing at this point- water attunement- frost armor-mist form…rinse and repeat…this type of players normally zerg around jumping on a single target locked down by a warrior or guardian….lame

Kaleban.9834:

I specifically stated that the complaints regarding escaping and re-setting were in NON-sPvP.

I know. I was being thorough.

Kaleban.9834:

And if you’re going to imply I don’t understand tactics, then edify me. How exactly is an Ele escaping OFF the point because three people are trying to take it an example of good strategy?

It’s not. But being able to bunker against 1v3 and then escape freely if you become overwhelmed rather than die is a strategic advantage.

Kaleban.9834:

Yes, it can be, and is frequently the subject of many famous YouTube videos. The problem is, by ANet nerfing the ability for the Ele to heal and be mobile, they’ve removed that as a valid option for the Ele profession in general.

If a profession had an autoattack that did one million damage instantly at 1500 range twice per second and ANet nerfed it to do 500,000 damage, it would still be an OP autoattack.

Similarly, the Elementalist was obviously nerfed but a reduction in power doesn’t suddenly mean they’re worthless.

Do you play League of Legends, by any chance? Let me give you two examples: Vladamir and Irelia. Both champions have been nerfed over and over since their releases, to the point where there are in-jokes about it. Every time they are nerfed, their player bases see a sudden drop as people decide the newest nerf has made them worthless. And yet a month or two later, people pick them up again, discover they are still OP, and then they’d get nerfed again and the cycle would repeat. (They seem to have stabilized at the moment.)

Kaleban.9834:

The fact that those two facets of gameplay are the only real defense an Ele has compounds the problem. Especially when you consider their stated desire to improve other facets of the profession to compete with the D/D bunker build, when in reality their nerfs only made that build more necessary and marginalized every other build even further.

As I already mentioned, I am anxiously awaiting buffs to other Ele playstyles myself. I would’ve preferred ANet did all their Ele changes at once because I am impatient, but they’re evidently taking a more cautious approach. Which makes sense, I suppose. I’d imagine it’s hard for them to see where buffs would go best without first putting the D/D Cantrip Ele in a more reasonable place.

Arheundel.6451:

Never seen a zerg unable to kill a single d/d ele jumping in the middle of it, I constantly see these eles rushing head down only to be killed instantly, those elese are nothing more than fotm players using the same rotation over and over:

-shocking aura-rtl-updraft- kill nothing at this point- water attunement- frost armor-mist form…rinse and repeat…this type of players normally zerg around jumping on a single target locked down by a warrior or guardian….lame

Ok. I see them all the time. I’m not sure what else to say. They rush in, draw an impressive amount of aggro, cause disruption for 10 seconds (more if the zergs are activelly slamming into each other), and then get out. Sometimes they fall but then they usually just Vapor Form to safety.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Ok. I see them all the time. I’m not sure what else to say. They rush in, draw an impressive amount of aggro, cause disruption for 10 seconds (more if the zergs are activelly slamming into each other), and then get out. Sometimes they fall but then they usually just Vapor Form to safety.

The only way to “Vapor Form to safety” requires a friendly keep next door. Otherwise you’re getting stomped.

And “cause disruption?” A few D/D Eles slamming into a zerg doesn’t really do much, the damage on skills from a bunker D/D is abysmally low, not to mention the 5 target cap, which is usually quickly healed via zerg group healing and barely noticed. Even worse for said Eles is if any of their targets are running with Retaliation.

I don’t know what tier you play in, but I have never seen an Ele stupid enough to even try to “zerg-bust” like that. Its guaranteed suicide, with an inevitable stomping.

The notion that the Ele is somehow causing a disruption is only valid if it actually distracts a zerg. I play on JQ, and in my experience a zerg will pound a D/D Ele into the dirt in relatively short order, kind of like driving over a speed bump. The only successful D/D Eles were roamers who would try and peel off a few from a zerg, or fight other roamers. ACTUAL zerg busting came in the form of Staff Eles and Necros.

Kaleban.9834:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Ok. I see them all the time. I’m not sure what else to say. They rush in, draw an impressive amount of aggro, cause disruption for 10 seconds (more if the zergs are activelly slamming into each other), and then get out. Sometimes they fall but then they usually just Vapor Form to safety.

The only way to “Vapor Form to safety” requires a friendly keep next door. Otherwise you’re getting stomped.

And “cause disruption?” A few D/D Eles slamming into a zerg doesn’t really do much, the damage on skills from a bunker D/D is abysmally low, not to mention the 5 target cap, which is usually quickly healed via zerg group healing and barely noticed. Even worse for said Eles is if any of their targets are running with Retaliation.

I don’t know what tier you play in, but I have never seen an Ele stupid enough to even try to “zerg-bust” like that. Its guaranteed suicide, with an inevitable stomping.

The notion that the Ele is somehow causing a disruption is only valid if it actually distracts a zerg. I play on JQ, and in my experience a zerg will pound a D/D Ele into the dirt in relatively short order, kind of like driving over a speed bump. The only successful D/D Eles were roamers who would try and peel off a few from a zerg, or fight other roamers. ACTUAL zerg busting came in the form of Staff Eles and Necros.

Confirmed this. For more proof, watch daphoenix WvW roam and see how he play against people.

D/D zerg busting was more viable pre culling patch when only a fraction of the zerg saw you. I used to do this a lot since it was more fun than staff for me. Post patch it’s nearly impossible to go deep into a zerg since they see you too soon and nuke you down half way in.

Kaleban.9834:

The only way to “Vapor Form to safety” requires a friendly keep next door. Otherwise you’re getting stomped.

A door or, you know, your allied zerg.

Kaleban.9834:

And “cause disruption?”

Draw aggro, bait cooldowns, distract.

Kaleban.9834:

I don’t know what tier you play in, but I have never seen an Ele stupid enough to even try to “zerg-bust” like that. Its guaranteed suicide, with an inevitable stomping.

Tier 2, and again, I’m not making an argument that Ele’s can do this, I’m saying I see Eles do this on a regular basis.

Kaleban.9834:

The notion that the Ele is somehow causing a disruption is only valid if it actually distracts a zerg. I play on JQ, and in my experience a zerg will pound a D/D Ele into the dirt in relatively short order, kind of like driving over a speed bump. The only successful D/D Eles were roamers who would try and peel off a few from a zerg, or fight other roamers. ACTUAL zerg busting came in the form of Staff Eles and Necros.

Hilariously enough, have you spent any time over on the Necro forum? Most of the posts there are about how useless and underpowered the Necro is. Not to say that I agree with them. I just find it interesting how everyone’s convinced their profession is underpowered, except maybe Guardians.

Who even cares about those bunker eles that run into zergs? They either run away shortly after diving in, or die and attempt to Vapor Form away, and only idiots chase after them.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Hilariously enough, have you spent any time over on the Necro forum? Most of the posts there are about how useless and underpowered the Necro is. Not to say that I agree with them. I just find it interesting how everyone’s convinced their profession is underpowered, except maybe Guardians.

Well, most professions are underpowered in certain aspects of the game. For example, warriors are great in PvE, but poor in sPvP, and thieves are great in WvW, but poor in sPvP.

The funny thing about necros is that they’re probably the best zerg-buster in WvW, but their poor mobility makes them terrible roamers in the same game mode.

So you’re telling me eles can no longer burst down my hp to 20% RTL half way across the map to fully heal and repeat to CC the living heck out of me while doing both physical + condition damage with their 20 might stacks.
I would say 90% of the whiners are the ones that never actually make use of their combo fields and just smashed all the buttons to beat 5v1 while RTL away whenever they made a mistake 10x over.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Tier 2, and again, I’m not making an argument that Ele’s can do this, I’m saying I see Eles do this on a regular basis.

But therein lies the disconnect. A good Ele doesn’t actually do any of the stuff that players claim make the Ele OP in WvWvW, a bad Ele tries to do it and dies nearly instantly.

Hence, the profession is self balancing in a way. Taking away healing and mobility is fine in small sPvP maps, I don’t really have an issue with it. But in the gigantic maps of WvWvW, and given that Eles are squishy casters expected to basically go melee with no inherent defenses, yeah the nerfs Eles have received are over the top. Especially when it seems that the nerfs followed the community complainers’ suggestions, rather than taking an objective look at the real issue and trying to fix that.

The fact that in any type of PvP, and most of WvWvW, any D/D Ele who still wants to roam and duel almost has to take the deep Water/Arcana Cantrips bunker build should tell the devs their balancing strategies aren’t working. You don’t take a profession who’s survival lies on the knife edge of player awareness (knowing exactly when to bug out for example) and nerf mobility AND the only real defense it has (i.e. healing through damage) while simultaneously pushing any other possible options for builds so far away from competitive levels that the Ele might as well only have D/D as its only weapon set.

That’s why I stated earlier that the Ele is in a terrible state of balance. Its not hyperbole, its simply that the devs don’t know what they want the Ele to do. And the design of the class reflects this. If you read ANet’s description of the Ele’s skills, it seems like each attunement should be distinct. When really, you’ve got Water for heals, and then DPS skills with a smattering of conditions and CC options scattered among the various skills. Why have four sets of skills when they all basically do the same thing?

If ANet really wanted to balance the class, they’d rework the skills to distinctly reflect each attunement, such as Fire being heavy AoE and burning, Air being single target and blind, Water being light AoE with chills, regeneration and heavy CC (like Frost Bow’s #5 skill on a short cast), and Earth being more about bleeds and knockdowns, with a rework on how certain skills like Unsteady Ground perform, such as making it impassable rather than just a Cripple Field. Having more distinct skills would mean ANet could balance the damage better so that Ele players wouldn’t always have to attunement dance using three plus skill combos to do the damage of one AA from another class. So an Ele could start with distance nuking in Fire, switch to Water to CC mobs, change to Earth to tack on bleeds and KD some foes, then move into Air to move from one target to the next, killing each in turn, switching back to Water to heal up.

Basically, divide, conquer, kill. Plus, having higher damage skills but fewer causing direct damage with more CC options would make Eles less predictable, and less prone to “rotations.” But I have little hope for any of these changes, if they ever were to come it will probably be similar to the GW1 Mesmer update that took YEARS post release.

Forestgreen.7981:

So you’re telling me eles can no longer burst down my hp to 20% RTL half way across the map to fully heal and repeat to CC the living heck out of me while doing both physical + condition damage with their 20 might stacks.
I would say 90% of the whiners are the ones that never actually make use of their combo fields and just smashed all the buttons to beat 5v1 while RTL away whenever they made a mistake 10x over.

Newsflash: bunker D/Ds were not bursting off 80% of your health unless a number of conditions were met:

1. You were upleveled.
2. You were in townclothes and all your armor was in inventory.
3. You were afk.

99.995% of the cries for nerfs on the Ele are from WvWvW noobs who had no idea what they were doing. The legitimate concerns were in sPvP, unfortunately those concerns bled over into other game modes even though they weren’t an issue, and noobs who wanted more free badges jumped on the bandwagon crying for nerfs. You should not expect to beat daphoenix with your level 18 Thief.

Kaleban.9834:

If ANet really wanted to balance the class, they’d rework the skills to distinctly reflect each attunement, such as Fire being heavy AoE and burning, Air being single target and blind, Water being light AoE with chills, regeneration and heavy CC (like Frost Bow’s #5 skill on a short cast), and Earth being more about bleeds and knockdowns, with a rework on how certain skills like Unsteady Ground perform, such as making it impassable rather than just a Cripple Field.

Then you’d just run into the problem of locking yourself out of DPS by switching attunements even harder. They’d have to lower the Attunement cooldown and weaken all the individual spells even more to make swapping out of Fire/Air not seem like an idiotic decision.

If you’ll note, I actually said earlier in the thread that I agree the Ele has balance problems. I just don’t think they’re as severe as you do, nor do I think they make the Ele all that special. Everyone has balance issues.

ThomasKreshant.6572:

I did a little wv3 got amazingly annoyed about how slowly I covered the map.

Got even more frustrated that roaming got me killed repeatedly as I was slower than everyone chasing me now and then logged off.

I agree completely.

Voxel.6473:

ThomasKreshant.6572:

I did a little wv3 got amazingly annoyed about how slowly I covered the map.

Got even more frustrated that roaming got me killed repeatedly as I was slower than everyone chasing me now and then logged off.

I agree completely.

Yeah this is pretty much the situation in WvW sad to say.

Forestgreen.7981:

So you’re telling me eles can no longer burst down my hp to 20% RTL half way across the map to fully heal and repeat to CC the living heck out of me while doing both physical + condition damage with their 20 might stacks.
I would say 90% of the whiners are the ones that never actually make use of their combo fields and just smashed all the buttons to beat 5v1 while RTL away whenever they made a mistake 10x over.

Now you tell me he got away to reset the fight, meaning he is far enough to be out of combat. Would not that the same applied to you as well?Let assume he is able to burst you down to 20% of your health, which is like someone already stated when a certain conditions meets, he RtL away, reset the fight, you both heal to full, what different does it make? And if yours is made of paper, don’t expect to live long either.

Based on your post, you seems like a thief player, I can be wrong though. If he is far enough to fully heal, why not take that moment to stealth and relocation yourself bf he come back?He can not CC you unless he is in close range,so it is impossible to stop you from relocation yourself? If he is able to burst you that much means there is a big gaps bw your skill and hisAny good player will know he can not win in this battle.Only mindless player will chase without knowing they can not win. Then Why chase after him,let CC and get beaten, then QQ? Should you use your thinking a bit better?

I became a suicidal fanatic that loves to target enemy commanders in wvw and solo zergs endlessly as that is what gets me off now.

There, I said it.

LordByron.8369:

Skill > numbers that is how it should work.

I perfectly agree on this, just saying that if three equally skilled players face themselves and two focus on one, that one MUST be defeated (class wise, obviously, let’s say they fight into a boxe ring)

Skill player reap rewards. That is how a good game should be.Otherwise, we only see big Zerg roaming around..

Blaine Tog.8304:

Honestly, I don’t even know where to begin in my response. I just… your post is a disorganized mess full of sound and fury. I guess I’ll do my best but I don’t feel as if you are presenting a unified argument.

you should start with something your post lacks of:
facts.

All you says are unreal situation where you can change weapon at will and opponent are less reactive than mobs….

Its not a real picture of www….www players are not that bad when they are following a decent commander….

Nothing more to add because discussing of nothing is a waste of time…

P.S: for the number argument there is just one more thing:
If 2 Zerg/support profession meets a roaming profession they should have a hard time…

After all roaming professions in zergs are useless.

But actually the real truth is that www balancing is quite close to PvE balancing…..i.e. non existent.

And now ifotm are thieves and rangers….i bet only one of those 2 professions will receive nerfs

Kaleban.9834:

Spending a lot more time reading and posting on forums complaining about the heavy handed nerfs ANet is handing out that have no logical or rational consistency with either the classes themselves or actual game balance.

The desire to login and actually play is beginning to be a fleetingly rare event. I never wanted to play Warrior-Thief Online, I thought I was playing Guild Wars 2. The push against Eles now is strikingly similar to the marginalization of the GW1 Ele to an ER boon prot heal/support as the only viable build.

For a class type that stereotypically in most forms of media is the “nuke from range” character, ANet’s design decisions make little, if any sense. The idea of an Ele as a “jack of all trades” would be nice if it was the case, but its not.

Its times like these that make me wish game companies would stop making MMOs, because it seems that even the fun ones tend to poop all over themselves after a while by listening to a very small vocal minority because they scream the loudest. I mean, the whole point was to nerf the S/D bunker in PvP, and yet these nerfs were applied globally and actually make Ele players in ALL game modes bunker further to compensate for the lack of mobility and survivability.

I just don’t get it.

This. I took a break from GW2 about two months ago and patches like these are giving me more reasons to not even look back anymore.

It’s truly sad really. When I played there were far and between actually “decent” ele’s in WvW. I think I only ran into one or two who actually gave me a run for my money. Now, this patch will turn the really good ele’s into “decent”…and the rest…well you know.

Back to SC2 HOTS. Later….

Still pub stomping in spvp. Face rolling in tpvp and group thrashing in wvw. I will never be nerfed, anet do your worst.

It feels like this: 80% chance to escape a zerg plummeted down to 20% chance.
Meanwhile a warrior is running at mach 10 and stopping to /laugh.
And become the bear charge = godmode distance.

The only time I use mist form now is vs huge zergs (30+ vs 10 or less unorganized playeres), or to get past siegerazor.

I use signet of air in its place.

Kaleban.9834:

I just find it interesting how everyone’s convinced their profession is underpowered, except maybe Guardians.

Uhm.. Well alot of classes have weak points. Relatively speaking, Guardians/Thieves/Mesmers are the classes that should have nothing to complain about. Mesmers and Thieves are the biggest trolls. Whoever got the idea that ele’s zerg bust, seriously needs to run out in WvW more often.

Uhm.. Well alot of classes have weak points. Relatively speaking, Guardians/Thieves/Mesmers are the classes that should have nothing to complain about. Mesmers and Thieves are the biggest trolls. Whoever got the idea that ele’s zerg bust, seriously needs to run out in WvW more often.Lets not forget that Thieves got boon stealing, making fighting them stupid now. Thieves did not deserve that bloody crap. Sure, it helps them against bunker Guards or whatnot. Yet, completely puts them at advantage against LOW HP/LOW ARMOUR elementalists that rely on boons more than most classes considering the squishy nature.
Just my 2 cents.

I’m primarily a WvWer, I gave it a fair shake. I don’t get a lot of time to play, and the bit that I did – It just was not as much fun after the RL nerf. Since they didn’t rollback the mistake this patch, I’ll be taking a long break, if not quitting altogether.

Ran typical 0/10/0/30/30
PPT D/D, Staff
PVT Armor, Back
Celestial Accessories
Lemongrass, Oil

Started with an 80 Ranger, which I grew disenchanted with.
Also 80 Necromancer, 80 Warrior, 30 Thief

None of the other professions really flowed as well, felt as well rounded for roam, small-scale & keep with one spec, or simply felt as much fun. RTL mobility was a big part of that, and even though the class can fight almost nearly as well, it just does not feel as fun not being able to jet around as it used to. I’ve got other games in my queue to enjoy, and if this one returns to a state where it’s fun again, great.

Actually I’ve stopped playing PvE and WvW. Just working on legendary PvE stuff until they fix the elementalist class.

Wolf.5816:

Boomslang.4352:

Saw a lot of D/D eles giving away bags in WvW. I guess they were testing if they can still facetank 5 people, kill three, MF-RtL away then double-back to kill the remaining two.

I hope they learned that they’re mortals now just like everyone else and learn to adapt.

+1

What did those 5 people do, stand still for 15 min while the bunker chipped them down. They must of been lvl 2’s as well right out of starting instance. I just dont want to think that there are people that bad at the game.

it would’ve been more fun if they gave the mobility we had with RTL to the other classes as well instead of removing that great mobility.

I just wonder if its useless to repeat ad nauseam how some players are spreading misinformation.

Next time you want to write ele is OP in WWW check the sotg interview….
Its not and never been.

Its a capture the point/spiritwatch issue.
WWW needs fast kills or strong support
WWW ele = knight/balanced/gc or staff user getting back to zerg.
PvP ele = cleric

A tank roamer is the most useless thing possible in WWW.

As a d/d who exclusively WvWs, they took our niche which was previously filled by two classes: thieves and d/d eles, made thieves gods of roaming and d/ds a joke. I cannot be the reliable door knocker either, as the buff to guards on T3 keeps along with their stuns makes most of the doors suicide for me. A thief on the other hand has no trouble at all. All I am good for is baiting groups into chasing after me (and after all of these months, the only people who do so are now the thieves of the group) and getting into towers quickly and safely in order to build Arrow Carts.

Meanwhile I watch thieves do what I do, only with stealth (1) AND damage (2). If they had wanted to handicap d/d mobility and survivability in, the least they could have done was balance the thing we were sacrificing before: damage. Even better, make the boon/RTL/MF nerf applicable only to sPvP. Like LordByron said, tank roamer, and a mediocre tank at that, is pretty useless in WvW.

As a side note, in WvW, thieves do what we do better in every way, and if we are going by badge ratios, my best thievy thief friend does so 12:1 times better than me last reset, lolz…

The patch made me more courageous and eccentric.

I play a 0-0-10-30-30 dd ele that uses 10 in earth for auras grant protection and protection runes like rune of grove and earth. It feels pretty tanky