Guild Wars 2

BlackBeard.2873:

If they don’t move cleansing wave and arcane precision down the adept tier, eles will be forced to either go full-on kamikaze, or be crappy bunkers (which the bunker already is) – meaning only kamikaze is viable. Why? Because with the proposed changes, the following defensive traits will exist without speccing all the way to master-level in a line.

Adept:
- Lava Tomb (Fire) – terrible, doesn’t prevent death, just go out with a bang
- One with Air (Air) – terrible and useless
- Elemental Shielding (earth) – Useful for d/d only, not new defense, just improves existing defense mechanisms (prot is shorter than auras)
- Earth’s Embrace (earth) – 90s cooldown
- Soothing Disruption (water) – cantrips are just bad, besides lightning flash
- Soothing mist (water, 5 point) – actually pretty good if you can survive
- Final Shielding (arcane) – 60s, often go from >25% —> 0 so it doesn’t proc.

As you can see, there is no way you can get any actual improvements in defensive capabilities at the adept level. That means you are forcing speccing to the master level to get survivability on the class that needs it most. Further, when you do spec into defensive trees, you get terrible return on investment b/c you have to waste an adept trait. This makes the choice clear: you are wasting your time to build any defense – just accept that your role is to get in, drop damage, and die.

Look at this another way: you are moving EVERY good trait out of adept. The usable traits left at the adept tier are:
- Fire: None
- Air: Zephyr’s boon (d/d only, which will be dead anyway), Bolt to the Heart
- Earth: Stone Splinters, Elemental Shielding, Earth’s Embrace
- Water: Vital Striking (glass-cannon only)
- Arcana: Blasting staff (staff only), final shielding (and not very good at that)

This is very build-crippling b/c you are either forced to pay a tax of taking absolutely useless skills, go into air (glass cannon) and earth (not enough survivability to justify not GC), or play staff.

The only lines that won’t force you take useless skills are:
-Air
-Earth
-Arcana (staff only)

To me it seems like you are nerfing survivability, build variety, and support on a class that currently struggles with the first 2 already. Please reconsider.

exactly!

I already had a 2 spot post on page 4 about how you guys can go about fixing and not breaking the ele by destroying our only d/d build left.

You guys need to fix our current d/d build, remove the ICD on EA and revert the cd on RTL. The cantrips are already a lost cause and i highly doubt youd go that far to fix what you guys already broke.

So instead of destroying our only viable d/d, which i think only a few of us still run because weve loved the play style since launch but play it at the cost of being 20x more useless to the group and in general… you need to make other build viable without wrecking what we have.

Fresh air was a step in the rigtht direction!

Moving blasting staff to adept is a big step in the right direction to make staff more viable too!

Fix and improve our signets and glyphs. Air is the only line that gives a glyph buff. You give us stats on fire and earth to go for a condition build yet we have no reliable ways to apply condition dmg.

diamond skin in its current state could work for a condition build IF you were to give us a viable condition build we could use with staff or scepter.

I see the eles weapon sets like this…

Staff—> Has the potential to be a bad kitten condition based build IF you were to fix signets/glyphs to allow so.
Scepter—> Is actually in a good place with the Fresh air builds we can put together and gives our best single target dmg.
Dagger—> Ive said it before and ill say it again, our pre nerf/launch dagger/dagger build would be amazing to play in this current meta. It honestly felt like that old build was meant for implementation later in the game after everyone learned how to play and bugs got fixed in other professions and they got updated as well. Just like the current war stun build, you guys went/are going to far(again, and again and again). Im not going to reiterate what you (should) already know about the ele and our hp/tough/armor/def.

This is all dog chasing it’s own tail.

Our mobility/heals were gutted. Here we are for Round 2 by moving good traits into Master tier so we can’t get the benefit of having two good traits in the Adept/Master slot and instead only get one good trait in a Master slot and something useless in the Adept slot.

OH! But why oh why is there no build diversity!?!

Anet is the root cause of this problem. They nerf our survivability on a class that already suffers survivability issues because we spec into survivability to resolve those survivability issues which only furthers our need to spec into survivability which causes a seemingly endless barrage of nerfs to our survivability.

It’s like they’re incapable of seeing the forest through the trees. One of these days someone over there, probably some brash young intern, will recognize that if they wanted build Diversity all they need to do is raise our hitpoints up and we’ll no longer be forced into survivability paths and we all all cheerfully play builds that we actually want instead of builds we are forced to just to survive.

But, you know, lets take a wrecking ball to the whole existing survivability structure to see if that breaks it up. I’m sure when we’re at thief level survivability but completely and totally lack their burst damage or in combat mobility that people are assured to keep playing the class because….

…uh…

…reasons.

JonPeters.5630:

Summation of high risk concerns for elementalist.

…

Thanks, Jon

Looks good. I’m glad our concerns are taken seriously. I still feel the health gap between 20k and 10k is too large, but I suppose this isn’t the place or time to discuss it. Keep us informed please. :-)

P.S. bug fix for Lingering Elements is coming on Nov. 26th as well.

Awesome!

ThiBash.5634:

P.S. bug fix for Lingering Elements is coming on Nov. 26th as well.

Awesome!

can anybody answer? Will it work with all traits or just with the 5P ones?

Gorni.1764:

ThiBash.5634:

P.S. bug fix for Lingering Elements is coming on Nov. 26th as well.

Awesome!

can anybody answer? Will it work with all traits or just with the 5P ones?

Ideally, it’ll work with all traits AND make our glyphs trigger multiple times. ;-)

But seriously, if it only worked for the minor traits, it’d be plenty powerful.

I’ve said this on Diamond Skin already, but it got buried. here goes again:

Instead of total immunity, make it a condition-specific aegis with some number of charges, that regenerates over time while above the health threshold. This makes it not 100% useless below the threshold, as you might have some charges left, and not an impassable wall above the threshold, as enough condition pressure can still break it.

I’m bit excited for this nice changes in Air and Earth especially Diamond Skin (better if 85% life threshold),
I agree to move Aquamancer’s Alacrity in Master but hope in 25% reduced cooldown, do not agree about moving Cleansing Wave in Master, i think it’s okay where it is now.

For Renewing Stamina my personal idea is to move it in Air Minor trait 5 and change it into:
Gain 5 seconds of vigor when you deliver a critical hit. This effect can only trigger once every 5 seconds while attuned to air.
So this will be balanced with other class, like Warrior and Mesmer, and work with Lingering Elements and don’t result so OP.

What do you think?
sorry for my english

Guys you have some great suggestions, but you are writing them in the wrong place.
Ringil QV please suggest your post in:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/devtracker

That way Jon will see it much faster and will respond if they are thinking about the same.

TwiNject.4976:

Guys you have some great suggestions, but you are writing them in the wrong place.
Ringil QV please suggest your post in:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/devtracker

That way Jon will see it much faster and will respond if they are thinking about the same.

A dev has already posted in this thread asking for our feedback. And posting in a thread with every other class is pointless because every class is trying to make their case. I haven’t gone into other classes forums but I’d assume if anet cared they’d have devs in each forum to get feedback directly from the players of their profession.

If you know Soothing Wave is ‘100% useless’, THEN FIX IT! Fix every single useless trait ASAP. No one cares if you ‘change too much’ if you are actually bloody fixing the useless traits!

Everyone is also correct, in that Arcane 10 points will be rubbish unless you are using a staff. The sceptre and dagger traits are horrendous, right up there with Soothing Wave, Flame Barrier, Zephyr’s Speed and Arcane Precision.

Kodiak.3281:

This is all dog chasing it’s own tail.

Our mobility/heals were gutted. Here we are for Round 2 by moving good traits into Master tier so we can’t get the benefit of having two good traits in the Adept/Master slot and instead only get one good trait in a Master slot and something useless in the Adept slot.

OH! But why oh why is there no build diversity!?!

Anet is the root cause of this problem. They nerf our survivability on a class that already suffers survivability issues because we spec into survivability to resolve those survivability issues which only furthers our need to spec into survivability which causes a seemingly endless barrage of nerfs to our survivability.

It’s like they’re incapable of seeing the forest through the trees. One of these days someone over there, probably some brash young intern, will recognize that if they wanted build Diversity all they need to do is raise our hitpoints up and we’ll no longer be forced into survivability paths and we all all cheerfully play builds that we actually want instead of builds we are forced to just to survive.

But, you know, lets take a wrecking ball to the whole existing survivability structure to see if that breaks it up. I’m sure when we’re at thief level survivability but completely and totally lack their burst damage or in combat mobility that people are assured to keep playing the class because….

…uh…

…reasons.

Basically this. One of the main reason that almost everyone specs into water and arcana, is because they we NEED it to survive, not because we loves it. Being the lowest base HP AND light armor is not fun. Elementalist has mobility? Let’s get real here. Everyone knows how other jobs has better mobility AND survivability AND even damages.

Since ANet wants bullet points:
> Ele’s will not sacrifice crucial Arcana and Water traits to venture into other trees as long as their survivability is kept as low as it is. IT’S THAT SIMPLE.

Paradoxically, Elemental Attumenent got moved deeper into Arcana and Cleansing Wave got moved deeper into water. Now Ele’s are REALLY locked into 30 arcane + 20 water to survive, perfect.

Jon,

I wholeheartedly appreciate your responses here. I haven’t logged into the game in two weeks. Why? My favorite class depresses me.

At that, some of these changes bring hope to my heart, and some make me shake my head. I implore you to read this post.

A lot of eles on the elementalist forum have disagreements with one another on how to make the class effective again; but we almost all agree the class is currently very ineffective.

The post below basically summarizes my thoughts.

BlackBeard.2873:

If they don’t move cleansing wave and arcane precision down the adept tier, eles will be forced to either go full-on kamikaze, or be crappy bunkers (which the bunker already is) – meaning only kamikaze is viable. Why? Because with the proposed changes, the following defensive traits will exist without speccing all the way to master-level in a line.

Adept:
- Lava Tomb (Fire) – terrible, doesn’t prevent death, just go out with a bang
- One with Air (Air) – terrible and useless
- Elemental Shielding (earth) – Useful for d/d only, not new defense, just improves existing defense mechanisms (prot is shorter than auras)
- Earth’s Embrace (earth) – 90s cooldown
- Soothing Disruption (water) – cantrips are just bad, besides lightning flash
- Soothing mist (water, 5 point) – actually pretty good if you can survive
- Final Shielding (arcane) – 60s, often go from >25% —> 0 so it doesn’t proc.

As you can see, there is no way you can get any actual improvements in defensive capabilities at the adept level. That means you are forcing speccing to the master level to get survivability on the class that needs it most. Further, when you do spec into defensive trees, you get terrible return on investment b/c you have to waste an adept trait. This makes the choice clear: you are wasting your time to build any defense – just accept that your role is to get in, drop damage, and die.

Look at this another way: you are moving EVERY good trait out of adept. The usable traits left at the adept tier are:
- Fire: None
- Air: Zephyr’s boon (d/d only, which will be dead anyway), Bolt to the Heart
- Earth: Stone Splinters, Elemental Shielding, Earth’s Embrace
- Water: Vital Striking (glass-cannon only)
- Arcana: Blasting staff (staff only), final shielding (and not very good at that)

This is very build-crippling b/c you are either forced to pay a tax of taking absolutely useless skills, go into air (glass cannon) and earth (not enough survivability to justify not GC), or play staff.

The only lines that won’t force you take useless skills are:
-Air
-Earth
-Arcana (staff only)

To me it seems like you are nerfing survivability, build variety, and support on a class that currently struggles with the first 2 already. Please reconsider.

JonPeters.5630:

Summation of high risk concerns for elementalist.

Arcana
…
That being said, Elemental Attunement is just a beast of a trait and could honestly be compared with most grandmaster traits.

I have a problem with this line of thinking. Yes elemental attunement is extremely powerful, but that is why ALL elementalists should have easy access to it, since it is such a core element of our survivability. It’s not like you would say “having 4 attunements is too powerful, so we are moving the functionality of changing attunements to a grandmaster trait”. That is how you should think of the trait elemental attunement, because it should never have been a trait in the first place; it should have been a built in feature of attunement swapping. The fact that nearly 100% of eles take it and still can’t compete with warriors and the like should tell you that it is not a problem having a powerful trait in the adept tier, especially for a class with atrocious inherent survivability.

Jabberwock.9014:

especially for a class with atrocious inherent survivability.

The root problem is ANet doesn’t believe the above for some reason. I think they must still decide the balance patches based on daphoenix’s videos from several months ago. That’s the only rationale that makes sense anyways. And even then daphoenix wasn’t slaying everyone, just stalling, which was the whole point of the bunker build in the first place!

When you give the lowest armored, lowest health class the sole survival mechanism of healing, then nerf its healing into the ground, what do they expect is going to happen? Oh we can’t give the Ele mobility, that’s what Thief is for! And Warrior. And Ranger. And Guardian. Heck, even Mesmer has better in combat mobility, and OOC we have waypoints.

I’m still waiting for ANet to make good on their promise regarding the Elementalist:

“Elementalists are multi-faceted spellcasters that channel elemental forces, making fire, air, earth, and water do their bidding. What they lack in physical toughness, they make up in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack.” (by “single attack” ANet means all 20 weapon skills and all utility skills total aggregate damage on one target in the space of 1 second, which is impossible, but that has to be the metric right?)

“Elementalists quickly adapt to new threats by harnessing the power of the elements as needed.” (which means every 15 seconds of course)

Mbelch.9028:

Jon,

I wholeheartedly appreciate your responses here. I haven’t logged into the game in two weeks. Why? My favorite class depresses me.

At that, some of these changes bring hope to my heart, and some make me shake my head. I implore you to read this post.

A lot of eles on the elementalist forum have disagreements with one another on how to make the class effective again; but we almost all agree the class is currently very ineffective.

The post below basically summarizes my thoughts.

BlackBeard.2873:

If they don’t move cleansing wave and arcane precision down the adept tier, eles will be forced to either go full-on kamikaze, or be crappy bunkers (which the bunker already is) – meaning only kamikaze is viable. Why? Because with the proposed changes, the following defensive traits will exist without speccing all the way to master-level in a line.

Adept:
- Lava Tomb (Fire) – terrible, doesn’t prevent death, just go out with a bang
- One with Air (Air) – terrible and useless
- Elemental Shielding (earth) – Useful for d/d only, not new defense, just improves existing defense mechanisms (prot is shorter than auras)
- Earth’s Embrace (earth) – 90s cooldown
- Soothing Disruption (water) – cantrips are just bad, besides lightning flash
- Soothing mist (water, 5 point) – actually pretty good if you can survive
- Final Shielding (arcane) – 60s, often go from >25% —> 0 so it doesn’t proc.

As you can see, there is no way you can get any actual improvements in defensive capabilities at the adept level. That means you are forcing speccing to the master level to get survivability on the class that needs it most. Further, when you do spec into defensive trees, you get terrible return on investment b/c you have to waste an adept trait. This makes the choice clear: you are wasting your time to build any defense – just accept that your role is to get in, drop damage, and die.

Look at this another way: you are moving EVERY good trait out of adept. The usable traits left at the adept tier are:
- Fire: None
- Air: Zephyr’s boon (d/d only, which will be dead anyway), Bolt to the Heart
- Earth: Stone Splinters, Elemental Shielding, Earth’s Embrace
- Water: Vital Striking (glass-cannon only)
- Arcana: Blasting staff (staff only), final shielding (and not very good at that)

This is very build-crippling b/c you are either forced to pay a tax of taking absolutely useless skills, go into air (glass cannon) and earth (not enough survivability to justify not GC), or play staff.

The only lines that won’t force you take useless skills are:
-Air
-Earth
-Arcana (staff only)

To me it seems like you are nerfing survivability, build variety, and support on a class that currently struggles with the first 2 already. Please reconsider.

I nominate Blackbeard to speak on behalf of us! Lol we need daph here too! Seriously anet listen to guys like Blackbeard.

I think a lot of eles on this forum, including myself, have made some excellent threads/posts on the elementalist.

Like I said in my post, not all of us agree 100% of the time on anything, so nobody can speak on behalf of us.

And about DaPheonix, I don’t exactly know how in touch he is with the game. I know you were just joking, but he really isn’t/wasn’t godliness embodied into an ele :P.

BlackBeard.2873:

-snippity-

Generally I agree with you, but I enjoy cantrips, as lackluster as Cleansing Fire and Mist Form may be. I think Armor of Earth and Lightning Flash are quite useful.

Jabberwock.9014:

JonPeters.5630:

Summation of high risk concerns for elementalist.

Arcana
…
That being said, Elemental Attunement is just a beast of a trait and could honestly be compared with most grandmaster traits.

I have a problem with this line of thinking. Yes elemental attunement is extremely powerful, but that is why ALL elementalists should have easy access to it, since it is such a core element of our survivability. It’s not like you would say “having 4 attunements is too powerful, so we are moving the functionality of changing attunements to a grandmaster trait”. That is how you should think of the trait elemental attunement, because it should never have been a trait in the first place; it should have been a built in feature of attunement swapping. The fact that nearly 100% of eles take it and still can’t compete with warriors and the like should tell you that it is not a problem having a powerful trait in the adept tier, especially for a class with atrocious inherent survivability.

This… With how the mechanic of the class is with attunement swapping. Elemental Attunement should be inherited into the core mechanic of the class. That with the lower base cool downs of attunement swapping should solve the Arcana dependency and open up diversified builds more than adding frivolous changes to the other lines.

Mbelch.9028:

I think a lot of eles on this forum, including myself, have made some excellent threads/posts on the elementalist.

Like I said in my post, not all of us agree 100% of the time on anything, so nobody can speak on behalf of us.

And about DaPheonix, I don’t exactly know how in touch he is with the game. I know you were just joking, but he really isn’t/wasn’t godliness embodied into an ele :P.

He still plays though I havent seen him on in a while. he is usually on for a few days when a new patch comes out.

Mbelch.9028:

I think a lot of eles on this forum, including myself, have made some excellent threads/posts on the elementalist.

Like I said in my post, not all of us agree 100% of the time on anything, so nobody can speak on behalf of us.

And about DaPheonix, I don’t exactly know how in touch he is with the game. I know you were just joking, but he really isn’t/wasn’t godliness embodied into an ele :P.

Lol yea I was, I think a lot of ppl have brought up some really good points. I just hope they listen to us for once.

The biggest thing is they need to not destroy current builds to make new ones. And they need to fix what they broke at launch.

mjharrison.3209:

JonPeters.5630:

Right now I am thinking 85% on diamond skin as high health eles could break this at 80% imo.

There is another alternative:
instead of 100% immunity go for something along the lines of:
75% condition duration reduction while above 75% health

Personally I’d still prefer to see GM traits be actives not passives, eg:
Reflect 1 condition on attuning to earth, earth attunement is recharged when afflicted by a condition when not in earth attunement, 6sec CD

The way the dev’s see this trait to be, it wouldnt begin to scratch to fit the role its supposed to be. This trait would be hard-countered by condi duration on the opposing side, rendering this useless for a DPS ele looking to be immune to blind/weakness/cripple/chill/immob. All it takes is a little counter- play on the enemies side. You really under-estimate the raw damage put out by a complete condi based build.

The Game Slayer.7632:

mjharrison.3209:

JonPeters.5630:

Right now I am thinking 85% on diamond skin as high health eles could break this at 80% imo.

There is another alternative:
instead of 100% immunity go for something along the lines of:
75% condition duration reduction while above 75% health

Personally I’d still prefer to see GM traits be actives not passives, eg:
Reflect 1 condition on attuning to earth, earth attunement is recharged when afflicted by a condition when not in earth attunement, 6sec CD

The way the dev’s see this trait to be, it wouldnt begin to scratch to fit the role its supposed to be. This trait would be hard-countered by condi duration on the opposing side, rendering this useless for a DPS ele looking to be immune to blind/weakness/cripple/chill/immob. All it takes is a little counter- play on the enemies side. You really under-estimate the raw damage put out by a complete condi based build.

Necromancers have incredibly low direct damage on their condition weapons; without conditions they can average at best around 500 damage per second until they break through Diamond Skin, and that’s if they’re blowing all their cooldowns, meaning they won’t have much of a condition burst when they break through.

So with DS being 90%, we’re looking at the necro needing around 3 seconds of uninterrupted DPS on an ele with x/x/30/30/x and no vit on gear. Presumably the elementalist has defensive capabilities as well; all weapon sets possible have crowd control, staff and scepter/x have blind, the elementalist might have near-permanent regen (with no poison to bring it down because Diamond Skin!) and a source of protection. If the ele is not in water attunement they can heal 1.5k+ instantly if they drop below the line. Can’t forget dodges either; luckily for the necro in this matchup, projectile reflect doesn’t do much to him. Soothing Mists + Regeneration alone bring the necro’s effective DPS down to 290. We’re getting close to the point where the ele just needs one 1.5k heal every 5 seconds to stay immune to conditions, and that time is increased by 1 second every 10 by dodges. Protection gives the ele 7.5 seconds between heals, but it’s not necessarily permanent.

Heck, Ether Renewal renders the necromancer entirely pointless until the cast finishes, and that’s on a 15 second cooldown, so just that, regen and the free heal for attuning to water could probably wall off the Necro forever. Doubly so if the ele is running gear with any defensive stats at all.

It might be easy for some professions to break through Diamond Skin, but it’s pretty much a hard counter to the entire condition necromancer build at present. Using a utility slot for a minion is just about the only thing a condimancer can do to get enough DPS to break through, and that just makes the minions an ele’s prime target.

Immunity to conditions is a strong effect, and while it might have a place, the threshold shouldn’t be based on damage received. Maybe hits taken, or conditions blocked, with the trait recharging over time when above 90% health, but not purely “immune to conditions until X damage taken”.

I really want to suggest this variant:
Diamond Skin: Gain a stack of Diamond Skin every [x] seconds, up to a maximum of [y] stacks. Each stack prevents one condition from being applied to you, and is then removed.

This remains relevant throughout the entire fight, would be visible to opponents before they attack, has a degree of counterplay (don’t blow a big cooldown if you think the ele’s about to gain a stack or has one, use an auto-attack to remove it first), and can be broken through by all condition builds given enough time.

^ I like that idea but then DS becomes just a block then, basically.

If we had an actual condition build we could put together with signets and or glyphs, the current DS would actually be preferred.

Dingle.2743:

I really want to suggest this variant:
Diamond Skin: Gain a stack of Diamond Skin every [x] seconds, up to a maximum of [y] stacks. Each stack prevents one condition from being applied to you, and is then removed.

This remains relevant throughout the entire fight, would be visible to opponents before they attack, has a degree of counterplay (don’t blow a big cooldown if you think the ele’s about to gain a stack or has one, use an auto-attack to remove it first), and can be broken through by all condition builds given enough time.

Great solution worthy of a Grandmaster Trait. Powerful, versatile and not situational.

I have to be honest here I not really seeing anything that would pull me from water/arcane. Any time I try a build without Healing ripple, Elemental Attunement, or Evasive Arcana I find there’s no sustain. Diamond skin looks gimmicky and wont do anything to stop power/crit builds from wrecking us. Fire still looks bad outside of pve.

We don’t have the mobility or the defenses that other classes do. No stealth, no clones, no death shroud. Our defense mechanic is healing without those 3 traits we have very little access to it.

keadlaw.6350:

I have to be honest here I not really seeing anything that would pull me from water/arcane. Any time I try a build without Healing ripple, Elemental Attunement, or Evasive Arcana I find there’s no sustain. Diamond skin looks gimmicky and wont do anything to stop power/crit builds from wrecking us. Fire still looks bad outside of pve.

We don’t have the mobility or the defenses that other classes do. No stealth, no clones, no death shroud. Our defense mechanic is healing without those 3 traits we have very little access to it.

That’s a huge point, because if they add in what they’re proposing it’s going to force every d/d build to be x/x/x/30/30. As it sits now, the staple of a d/d build is 30 arcana for EA/RS/EA. Most then choose water because like you said we have no other options and basically need to to survive. Evasive arcana, elemental attunement, renewing stamina are simply a must for survival as a dagger build.

Now for scepter and staff builds, arcana means bubkiss(aside from BS but you don’t need it for staff) for staff water works nicely for support but other then that staff is meh. We need some nice options for staff to be viable in 1v1 not just zergs. Scepter/x is in a good place as is. Aside from needing a few skills looked at and the auto attack dmg increased across all ele weapon sets.

If they could rework our signets to be able to give us some options there for a d/d build id definitely look into a x/x/30/x/30 type build.

Air, water, arcana are pretty much good honestly. Fire line is horrible and earth aside from a few traits as other have said, is meh. Without the skills to capitalize on signets and condition dmg/duration those 2 lines will never be worth going into.

- remove attunement cd from arcana. Set our attunement swap to a set 8-10 seconds. Change arcana passive to boon duration and +to all stats(celestial) or something like it.
- give us more builds without taking away any of our current ones(this should be a given with all the professions!)
- fix what you nerfed at launch and shortly after.
- rework/fix our cantrips, signets, glyphs so we can use them in multiple builds.

Been playing the game for a year. Ele was my first char and I have persevered with it despite it being a joke compared to every other class in the game.
I’m no champion player but I have a lv 80 char in each class and Ele is the hardest work for the least reward.
It’s simply not fun to play anymore compared to the much more forgiving other classes.
I’m hanging up my staff. I’m well over going into WvW just to supply combo fields for others to benefit from. Then die,always die.
Why? Because everyone knows Eles are a free kill and hit them first.
The patch is going to change nothing, we will still be slow moving,slow casting low damage, low health.
I like the idea of the Elementalist, but it just doesn’t work.
We should all just stop playing Ele until they get serious and fix it.

Blasting Staff is basically required for Staff. And Sceptre still fails to deliver a viable condition build, like all Ele weapons.

Avatara.1042:

Blasting Staff is basically required for Staff. And Sceptre still fails to deliver a viable condition build, like all Ele weapons.

Gotta agree there no blasting staff is bad if you run staff. I have no idea what other trait trumps blasting to staff that I would take over it.

Burning Precision – this needs a rework. Change it to 30% chance on HIT to inflict a 2 second burn. 4 second cooldown. Unlinking it from precision is vital, so Elementalists can use Dire gear and this trait.

Avatara.1042:

Burning Precision – this needs a rework. Change it to 30% chance on HIT to inflict a 2 second burn. 4 second cooldown. Unlinking it from precision is vital, so Elementalists can use Dire gear and this trait.

We’ve already seen that on-crit burn traits are bad enough for balance due to unblockable effects; this wouldn’t help the problem.

imho moving Elemental Attunement and Renewing Stanima both to master traits will achieve the opposite effect to what they want: Instead of lowering the dependability on the Arcana line, they’re forcing people to go 20 points into it, rather than the old 10.

I think that just lowering attunement recharge to 13 and leaving those traits (or moving one and leaving the other, whichever is deemed more powerful) would be better than to make people choose between them.

I think people are over reacting just a tad about the Renewing Stamina nerf. While I agree that it’s not something any of us wanted to see, and it’s certainly not the change that the ele class deserves, the standard D/D builds will essentially remain the same.

(0/10/10/20/30)
or the (0/10/0/30/30) for more condi cleanse or aura share.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJAoYhEmkbwx5gjEAEFnYyoQHiCPUeczM2A
I placed the traits where they would be after the patch.

If you look at this build you can see that all you’re really losing in the D/D build is Renewing Stamina. We still get a decent amount of vigor up time from our cantrips when coupled with Soothing Disruption (which thankfully is still in adept tier).

We can add Arcane Retribution into the build now where Elemental Attunement used to be and enjoy a bit more burst.

Like I said at the start, it’s a nerf, but not as horrible as some people have been making it out to be.

Mizhas.8536:

Lets face it. No matter what changes devs make to earth traitline while Evasive Arcana keeps being such a powerfull defensive trait.

90%, 85% those values are a joke. 1 single hit would drop more than that and then what? 30 point specced for nothing? No sir.
What about making it reduce INC damage?
0% reduction at 100% HP
25% reduction at 75% HP
50% reduction at 50% HP
75% reduction at 25% HP
…
Now that would be a real Diamond Skin.

I would consider taking that if it had that sort of effect, not necessarily at those values. However since the original was meant to be defense against conditions a condition duration reduction might make more sense.

I really don’t like traits like how Diamond Skin is intended to be(with the 90%/85% thing). They feel like things which will basically fail on me when I need them the most. I suppose it is a matter of perspective. There is also no good way to tell in the UI if you are meeting the threshold. I was testing Desperate Power on my warrior the other day and 25% is much lower in the health “globe” than expected. 90% vs 100% would look like a tiny sliver of a difference in the UI.

Edit: As an aside, how would Diamond Skin interact with corruption?

In an evasive arcana build EXPECIALLY IF YOU DON T PLAY PVP…
You are supposed to use evasions to trigger combos AND heal AND clean conditions.

Its your only surviving mechanics and support mechanic.

In a world where everything oneshots you (PvE) or put you lot of conditions (WWW) its the only way to make D/D playable AND fun.

Nerf vigor and you kill the only fun build ele has left.

Not only pve/www players are totally tired of PvP nerfs…..but also they invested time in getting their equip…

And if you take a look into other builds gameplay….i m better play pong that the current ele…more deep gameplay.

So please do not kill D/D Evasive Arcana builds….. (hints X/X/X/20/30)

Dweia Tulenhenki.8127:

Well, the problem with elementalist is the survivability.
I’ve been playing about 1300h, died 1300 times with my ele.

Haven’t completed the story as some of the missions are way too difficult to play yourself. Like the Defending Claw Island, tried 10 times, then needed guild mates and waited that my ele is lvl 80 with exotic gears. (Manged to solo it with my lvl 50 necro).

It took 1300 h to do map completion and I’m still afraid to run alone in Orr & Malachor ie. trying to avoid combat at any cause.

And I’m always the first one to be downed in dungeons. Feel like the elementalist survivability is the worst in the game. I know the ele is the most difficult to play, but after these changes I might quit playing ele and change to another more easier class

My build might not be optimal, but
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEQQFAWhEmabwR5gjDAkCmIeYhDSUeMzO2A-jUCBIjAEEAJfFRjtMKIVXRr8KsqaCpabYqYRWGAmxA-w

::headscratches:: Are we playing the same class? I went full berserk with a staff and annihilated my way through the game. I feel my damage is through the roof.

See, the problem is the gimmicks. I started three elementalists and deleted them all. They felt slow, uber clumsy, the damage was not all that. And of course, with all the railing against staff I never grabbed it.

Now I’m 95% in fire with a staff and most things don’t live long enough to touch me.

If inflicting Burning refreshed Earth Attunement, then we would finally have a viable Condition build. At least for DPS.

Kanto.1659:

::headscratches:: Are we playing the same class? I went full berserk with a staff and annihilated my way through the game. I feel my damage is through the roof.

See, the problem is the gimmicks. I started three elementalists and deleted them all. They felt slow, uber clumsy, the damage was not all that. And of course, with all the railing against staff I never grabbed it.

Now I’m 95% in fire with a staff and most things don’t live long enough to touch me.

Zerker ele brings in all kinds of pain if played correctly. Although you don’t have that one-two shot combo to instantly down something, a perfectly laid down AoE + CC with the added kiting/LoSing will really hurt. But I’m not saying the traits in Fire Tree don’t suck though. Don’t get me wrong there.

It’s a high skill ceiling playstyle that has little to no room for mistakes, that’s why most if not all eles complain about ele’s being too squishy. That’s also why most if not all are too dependent on Water/Arcana trees. Although the devs are improving some of the traits in the Fire tree, it still needs a lot of improvement to make it as equally appealing as the overly used and overly nerfed Water and Arcana trees.

When playing zerker ele, always keep in mind that if you do get caught, you’re basically dead. There’s nothing wrong in playing zerker ele staff. It’s just that, the damage you dish out while trying to stay alive comes out as masochistic compared to a Warrior class in zerker just auto-attacking and hundred-blading the entire game. I’m not saying Warriors in zerker are immortal, but they are wee bit tougher and can survive better compared to zerker ele whilst both doing the same DPS (most of the time warrior wins), it’s absurd.

Kanto.1659:

Dweia Tulenhenki.8127:

Well, the problem with elementalist is the survivability.
I’ve been playing about 1300h, died 1300 times with my ele.

Haven’t completed the story as some of the missions are way too difficult to play yourself. Like the Defending Claw Island, tried 10 times, then needed guild mates and waited that my ele is lvl 80 with exotic gears. (Manged to solo it with my lvl 50 necro).

It took 1300 h to do map completion and I’m still afraid to run alone in Orr & Malachor ie. trying to avoid combat at any cause.

And I’m always the first one to be downed in dungeons. Feel like the elementalist survivability is the worst in the game. I know the ele is the most difficult to play, but after these changes I might quit playing ele and change to another more easier class

My build might not be optimal, but
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEQQFAWhEmabwR5gjDAkCmIeYhDSUeMzO2A-jUCBIjAEEAJfFRjtMKIVXRr8KsqaCpabYqYRWGAmxA-w

::headscratches:: Are we playing the same class? I went full berserk with a staff and annihilated my way through the game. I feel my damage is through the roof.

See, the problem is the gimmicks. I started three elementalists and deleted them all. They felt slow, uber clumsy, the damage was not all that. And of course, with all the railing against staff I never grabbed it.

Now I’m 95% in fire with a staff and most things don’t live long enough to touch me.

I play ele from d1 and in every dungeon my survivability is the worse of all party, i run full zerk s/d i have to use 30 point on water and arcana and 2 or 3 devensive utility… if they want us to change our builds will be welcome but we need more survivability… if u run only cof 1 or world event doesent matter but in dungeons and fotm its really important

Jon, if you happen to see this, please consider it or at the least have it tested… Fire Grandmaster trait, Pyromancers Puissance (spelling) Gain might on each spell cast in Fire… Lets face it, staff skills have a long recharge and barely get above 8 might stacks. However, if you were to make this trait more like the Engineers flamethrower trait where it would now be… “Gain might the longer you are attuned to Fire”. Just a suggestion I think would be worth some tests. Also, I am liking the idea of having a condition removal in Fire line, but the Cooldown of 40 Seconds is a bit much. If we decide to build into Fire we are already squishy and if you spit on us, we die. Perhaps a 30 second cooldown is more realistic. That way we take the chance of going squishier, and have to watch for conditions still, but don’t die instantly. Just a thought. Thanks for all these changes… I cannot wait!

Otaur.9268:

Jon, if you happen to see this, please consider it or at the least have it tested… Fire Grandmaster trait, Pyromancers Puissance (spelling) Gain might on each spell cast in Fire… Lets face it, staff skills have a long recharge and barely get above 3 might stacks.

Wut…? You completely kill your arguments with these arguments loaded with misinformation. Without boon duration (other than 20 in arcana) I get 7-8 Might stacks, sometimes topping at 10 with a fireball, lava font, meteor shower.

Yeah, your auto-attack also stacks Might.

Also for those bagging Lava Tomb, it is the best staff zerker trait we have.

Avatara.1042:

Also for those bagging Lava Tomb, it is the best staff zerker trait we have.

You do realize that saying this, that the best trait in an entire line is one that functions when DOWNED, shows just how sorry a state the Ele is in right?

Should we really have to wait 22 more days until we know how Lingering Elements will be bugfixed?

How can we evaluate the significant arcana nerfs coming for December 10 if we have no information on Lingering Elements?

Mbelch.9028:

And about DaPheonix, I don’t exactly know how in touch he is with the game. I know you were just joking, but he really isn’t/wasn’t godliness embodied into an ele :P.

Blasphemer! How dare you say that about the Avatar?!
j/k

More serious though, I was wondering if anyone actually uses Lava Tomb? Ele’s are pure paper when downed and once you’ve used Mistform, you’re toast. I suppose for early levels of PvE it’s not utter useless, but I don’t see it at end-level.

Lian Olsam.9541:

Kanto.1659:

Dweia Tulenhenki.8127:

… [I] Feel like the elementalist survivability is the worst in the game. I know the ele is the most difficult to play, but …

… I went full berserk with a staff and annihilated my way through the game
… I started three elementalists and deleted them all. They felt slow, uber clumsy, the damage was not all that.
… Now I’m 95% in fire with a staff and most things don’t live long enough to touch me.

.. I play ele from d1 and in every dungeon my survivability is the worse of all party
… we need more survivability… if u run only cof 1 or world event doesent matter but in dungeons and fotm its really important

Actually, CoF1 is a perfect example. There was a time when no one wanted to bother with the Ele downing after the bridge or during the critical door opening part.

Staff was never a problem. No one seems to care about the Ele having a strong aoe once in a while wielding a staff, or the occasional cc while wielding a staff.

The reason d/d became an eyesore is because most players do not accept the concept of a magical assassin.

What you want is something the lets the Ele shine that is not being a buff slave.

red.2387:

We can’t have Elemental Attunement and Renewing Stamina together anymore? THIS IS AWFUL.

This is a MASSIVE NERF. This is literally all we had left…

Well it completely wipes of eles in spvp, but at least they did a little buff to staff eles in pve!

Was the main thread about these changes removed? I can’t find it anymore.

Burning Fire: Compared to other professions similar traits, Burning Fire lacks synergy and gives less utility. The closest comparable skill is Warriors Shrug It Off, and it activates on 2 conditions (rather than 3), has shorter cool down of 30 rather than 40, and is a stun breaker. Other multiple condition removals such as Guardians Absolute Resolution has amazingly synergy with both other traits and elite skills, and can be activated on command. Warriors Cleansing Ire synergies great with other traits, and can be activated on command. Assassins Shadow’s Embrace synergies great with weapon skills, utility skills, traits, and it can be activated on command. Burning Fire need more synergy with the Elementalists other traits/skills to make the trait a viable choice. That, or move it down to Adept.

Ember’s Might: 25% increased burning duration looks uninteresting both by the math, and as a choice. It for example do not synergies at all with other burning traits like Burning Precision and Flame Barrier. It would make more sense to add a secondary effect when burning is applied (Torment?), so it would synergies with Elementalist many skills that do apply burning but for a very short duration.

Diamond Skin: Interesting if somewhat gimmicky concept. The Elementalist ability to stay at full health is quite limited, but plausible, and would synergies well with the heal skill/s from weapon. At 85%, it will definitely look nice on paper.