Guild Wars 2

First, I’m not trying to troll anyone but I often come to the forums seeking advice on how to play my class(s) and it just feels like they are all full of “gloom and doom.” After spending 30 minutes reading these threads, a new player would probably walk away thinking that an Ele can be tanked by a bunny, that ranger pets can 1-shot us, and that the Anet devs personally hate our class so much that it was only invented as a way for them to torment the world.

Seriously folks, yeah, my Ele can’t fly around the world like I’m used too but she’s still a ton of fun to play. Even with my crap gear, I find that I can generally hold my ground against most people. As for zergs, I continue to troll them like always and then just pray I can get away quick enough.

Anyways, sorry about this rant but to me, the game is still fun and I find something new to learn about my class every time I login.

Yup, dont get it either. Im doing just fine on my D/D ele.

The range on RTL was abit of a kick in the nuts, but i adjusted.

I suggest wearing a cup, that way, you won’t even have to “adjust” yourself.

Most of the Profession forums are like this. It’s somewhat baffling. Because I agree, the Ele is still really fun to play. As this is a game, fun is ultimately the goal.

Just about every doom and gloom thread in this forum deals with sPvP, or similar size engagements and 1vXs in WvW, roamers, etc. Eles are targeted because everyone knows we have low hps and light armor. Consequently, the ele needs all the speed and condtion removal they can get in melee range, especially when diving into the middle of a group. Those players have seen significant changes. While to you and me the difference of two instantly available condition removals is not a game breaker, their vulnerability is greatly escalated because of the situations they put themselves in.

Once you weed those people out, the rest of us seem to be pretty satisfied with the class lol.

People are just mourning over change. It’s a natural process, and won’t last forever.

the nerf didn’t really do much to eles personally other than kick them in the balls for have mobility, which i dont get the logic in the RTL CD since its only a 1200 range now and it has 1 of the longest CDs for a movement skill even if you hit something.

people are still gonna complain about the bunker builds, but those builds can’t do anything to you unless you’re fighting them in a group, in a 1v1 a wet noodle will only make someone laugh.

People come to the forums to gripe.

It’s been that way since there were forums.

FinalPatriot.8034:

I suggest wearing a cup, that way, you won’t even have to “adjust” yourself.

Haha, you picked up on that one. Nice one. xD

I’m just waiting on the buffs for dps eles and most of our utilities.

In over all gameplay I’ve actually started to think that the elementalist has gotten more fun to play.
Arenanet said that there is no trinity in gw2 and I’ve come to realize that the moment I stopped speccing into one trait completely I’ve become a much more stable elementalist.
running a 20-10-10-10-20 build now in pvp with a staff and 3 different types of runes
2 cleric, 2 pvt and 2 zerker.

I’m not bummed out by the changes to the ele itself, but more to the new anti-boon skills. If we’d have the option to make a build without boons, then it’d be fair. But at the moment, we don’t. So warriors get a free damage buff vs eles, and thieves steal all our boons (and they had little trouble with staff eles to begin with).

From betas up till few months ago forums were full of crying and gnashing of teeth about how underpowered and useless eles are.
Then they fixed some targetting issues and bugs, nerfed eles a bit and suddenly it was OP as kitten, and forums filled with threads how op eles are.
Now it´s filled again with threads how bad things are after nerfs and how worthless eles are again.
Soon they tinker around with balance some more and we can start crying OP again, propably about focus bukers or some kitten.

Well the threads are depressing because nerfing skills to be twice less effective is a negative approach to balancing a game. If Anet didn’t want negativity to flood their forum they should have bumped up those skills who they thought were underpowered (like thief invisibility – they should be 100% of the time invisible and deal 25k dmg in one burst…)

I think it is funny that Anet stated that eles should be the “jack of all trades” and have one of the highest skill-caps due to their ability to do everything at the right time. They even said that, played at its highest levels, eles should be one of the best classes. However, when eles reach a point that people start to fulfill that role and playing at the high-level, they nerf it. Its supposed to be high-risk, high-reward. However, it seems Anet wants ele to be high-risk, medium reward. That’s not inviting.

Lol, my main is a mesmer. I played her since the release and I never found eles OP. Wanted to try one still, cuz I wanted to know, if Eles can be a threat by making one of my own. I am still at lvl 20, so I can not say much. But until now it is kinda fun. Wanna go for a Cond Dmg build with max on burn duration and carrion armor… I’ll see what happens

But People will allways complain I guess. I remember all saying in GW1 how underpowered the Ritualist is, but I had never so much fun playing a profession in GW1. But I didn’t go with the main stream builds. And I see that same phenomenon here in GW2 in every porfession forum.

I think it seems like there are a lot of people upset with the elementalist because of the sheer amount of people the nerfs affect.

Nobody likes a skill nerf, and a % of those people come to the forums to protest. THe problem is, there is such a low number of viable ele builds – not only because 2 (arguably 3) of our trait lines are pretty worthless but also because we have a low amount of weapons to choose from. With such a low amount of builds a vast number of people use dagger offhand (whether it be with another dagger or a scepter) with D/D being the predominant build. As such, the nerf affects more people which leads to more complaints.

If ANet decided to nerf a skill on warrior 1h sword, there is less complaint because while a lot of people use a 1h sword/ warhorn bleed build, there are also a lot of other builds that are decent endgame (shout healing, greatsword, shield + axe, etc.)

I would really like to see a large number of builds become viable sometime in the future for the elementalist, and while some of the other classes also have a low number of viable builds, I think at this point in time that Elementalist has the lowest number. But I don’t think nerfing things to crap in order to convince people to use other equally crappy things is the right way to achieve that.

I have the problem, that for me it seems like the Ele don’t give me any signs if I’m doing well, neither PvE/instances nor WvWvW. I know I’m really good with an Ele, but it just don’t give me any visible rewards. It’s just wicked. I’m still in leveling phase and the fun I had is decreasing more and more. Dunno what to do.

My first to 80 was a Necro and my second was an Ele. All I can say is that the rabble in the Ele qq threads are the most spoiled brats ever. I mean seriously, RtL lost 350 range and you can’t heal in Mist form? We’ve never bloody had any of that as Necros. Eles aren’t dealing with crippling bugs like having 1/3 the normal downed health pool and the Ele one trick pony’s trick is to be able to do everything, not like a Thief that has nothing but stealth. This is me continually levelling toons to 80 and skipping over fences carefully inspecting the grass. So far, short of me discovering that Warriors wreck everything, the Ele’s grass is in incredibly good shape.

I’ve always considered Ride the Lightning to be a brokenly powerful skill. I mean yes, I’m sad it’s gone too and kind of resentful (as an Ele even though I also play a War) that Warriors keep all of their piles of mobility but I’d be dishonest if I said I didn’t think that one skill deserved a bit of a looking at.

Ruruuiye.8912:

snip

K.

Now imagine trying to play a zerker necro with a heal that heals for about 3k more and applies regen, but also with lower health and no Death Shroud.

You might see why I’m upset about the changes to RtL and Mist Form, which were the primary defensive mechanics for glassy builds. The s/d build I run still works okay, but it’s frustrating that the weak ele builds were nerfed along with the strong ones.

Chaosky.5276:

Ruruuiye.8912:

snip

K.

Now imagine trying to play a zerker necro with a heal that heals for about 3k more and applies regen, but also with lower health and no Death Shroud.

You might see why I’m upset about the changes to RtL and Mist Form, which were the primary defensive mechanics for glassy builds. The s/d build I run still works okay, but it’s frustrating that the weak ele builds were nerfed along with the strong ones.

This is the problem.

So we elementalists have a single build that is a bit too powerful. Not in number of kills or any sort of way like that – they can just run away and force a tie better. So they nerf ride the lightning. But ride the lightning was what many other builds relied on to survive at all. So now those D/D glass cannon elementalists (who do the same damage as a non-glass warrior) go : “gee, my build was okay before – but with a 40s cooldown on my escape, I die a lot now. maybe I should bunker up”. This leads to even MORE bunker elementalists.

Maybe next they will nerf some staff skills. I mean theres a whole group of elementalists out there playing as support elementalists, maybe with a staff nerf they too will be converted to the almighty bunker.

Fun =/= balanced
The prof is fun i agree,but try playing another prof (esp in pve) and you will see what all the doom and gloom is about.
Anet wants to kill the ele and you will let them if you keep saying ‘its all fine,the class is still fun to play’
Complain,shout out in all the forums that the ele is underpowered and maybe,just maybe they will have mercy on us.

notice the huge spike in LF guard wars….

So frankly pve Wyse this patch is a disaster….and i m not even putting my feet in WWW……
In www its not fun for sure, only thing you had before was mobility…now you have only short range and limitation…

What’s your choice when you are playing an ele in www now? be the staff healbot or finding an Arrow cart?

If you find that fun well happy for you….seems most people don t find that fun but contrary to their philosophy only role anet wants for ele is to support other player fun….

No thanks.

Because MF + RTL was big hit without no buff to other things.

They just couldnt handle the issue of ele being op. It was like death sentence.

They could have done this more lesser changes in over time.

LordByron.8369:

What’s your choice when you are playing an ele in www now? be the staff healbot or finding an Arrow cart?

I tried this. The heals are nice, but nothing amazing. Arrowcarts are pretty cool though.

So, I guess the only viable build left for Ele is Arrowcart?

Seriously, D/D is still pretty strong. They kick my tail constantly, but I’m using a staff so I’m basically a free kill to whoever comes along. You learn to live with it.

its not D/D good …its staff that is an awful non versatile weapon …..
but at least can do something for zergs…a thing D/D can t do.

And it should Always be that single roamer wins VS single zerg build…unless the second player is way better.

There’d probably be less complaining if they would nerf incrementally, rather than whack-a-mole. Ele bunkers avoid the nerfbat for quite a while, then suddenly ANet decides to hit mobility, condition removal, and healing all in the same patch.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m realistic enough to know that if the only thing they did last patch was the RtL cooldown, we’d still have plenty of complaint threads. Still, there’d probably be fewer and not last as long if it was a smaller tweak each patch, rather than “OMG must nerf this build NAOW!”

Maybe all of the nerfs were warranted, but picking one thing to hit and waiting a few weeks to see the repercussions would help in several ways.

1. It would give a better picture of how a specific nerf is working, or not. With so many significant changes, it is a lot harder to see what any given piece contributed to balancing, overbalancing, or underbalancing the profession. There’s a reason why scientists change one variable at a time.

2. It would allow the meta to react smoothly to changes, rather than lurching about between FotM builds. Players could adapt to something like reduced mobility, or less condition removal, rather than seeing a bunch of changes and getting scared off the play style (or entire profession) completely.

Well for me its a matter of logic. To roam you need one of 2 things. Speed or stealth/diversion. Warrior, ranger, and thief get speed. Thief and Mesmer get diversion. The class that gets the most of the both of these is thief. The problem is Ele bunker or not to roam properly needs to be able to keep in range of the target and the ele also needs the capability to lead the target on. RtL being on such a long cool down presents a situation where an ele cant roam as easily as other classes. So the argument goes to staff. Since we aren’t roamers anymore we should just be siegers. The problem is staff is heavily under powered once someone focuses you unlike nades engineer, mark necro, etc (not even considering the need to channel). It should also be noted the higher tier you are in (I am on tier 1 BG) the more problematic the roaming issue is.

The second issue is dev communication. Ele never have a representative on the “sPvP no one gives a kitten about PvE and WvW even though that’s where most of the players are” SOTGs. The last time an actual dev visited this forum was 11 days ago to answer a question about a nerf before that 5 kittening months. We aren’t supposed to get angry, but we are still customers.

Now DD got gutted, Staff is still garbage, and even focus had to eat a nerf. Months ago we were promised better more diverse builds but each patch from EA to the fury nerf and on has pushed us more and more into the same build. I don’t even play my ele anymore honestly. It is shadow if what it was when I made it 7 months ago and woefully under powered compared to my other toons. Since I WvW primarily it is nigh impossible that I see the silver lining.

You see lots of QQ. For months we saw player come her and beg for our class to be nerfed into the ground. Over time it has been. If we chose to mourn over time wasted then I do not see a problem with that. Now that the dirty work has been done why not just leave us alone?

As far as the threads giving a bad impression to new players. If I were completely honest I would tell them role a warrior. It has nothing to do with being OP as in most situations they are not. However, from a practical stand point they are the least likely class to see major buffs or nerfs. Since they are the standard by which other classes are judged (great joke but they said it not us) it is highly unlikely warrior play will change all that much in the future. Lying or misrepresenting the class to new players is a nasty move in my opinion. If they love ele they will still play it. End of story.

TL;DR

Bold is the text that really matters the rest you can consider pure QQ etc

TheGuy.3568:

(snip)

As far as the threads giving a bad impression to new players. If I were completely honest I would tell them role a warrior. It has nothing to do with being OP as in most situations they are not. However, from a practical stand point they are the least likely class to see major buffs or nerfs. Since they are the standard by which other classes are judged (great joke but they said it not us) it is highly unlikely warrior play will change all that much in the future. Lying or misrepresenting the class to new players is a nasty move in my opinion. If they love ele they will still play it. End of story.

This all over – I love my ele, he was my main from beta until last month. Now, he’s on the shelf, and I rock my ranger. (Rangers need a tonne of love too, but this isn’t the place for that conversation.)

The only bit I’d argue with is telling them to roll a warrior – I’ve got one as well, and the warrior forum has more QQ in it than any 3 other profession forums. (Not enough armour, not enough damage, not enough mobility, not enough healing, need more damage from rifle, etc.)

Think the best advice for any newcomer is to avoid the forums. I try (try, not succeed) to only post in threads about possible improvements, but lately I’ve been posting in threads to counter the rose-coloured glasses folks, who think everything’s good.

Until our entire class stops getting balanced around one spec, and one type of gameplay (s/tpvp, I’m looking at you!) we’re hurting, and we’ll stay there.

This stuff is why I avoided D/D as much as possible. I leveled with staff at release because I liked it. I still use staff as much as possible in as many different builds as possible. It’s because I tried D/D, saw that it was overwhelmingly awesome in almost every way, and figured that it’d be nerfed into the ground eventually. When it became The One True Build for ele I knew it was only a matter of time.

Staff has been fairly bad since late beta (other than one OP build that was nerfed shortly after release), but it’s been consistently bad. I haven’t had to relearn how to play the class from the ground up every 2 months.

stale.9785:

TheGuy.3568:

(snip)

As far as the threads giving a bad impression to new players. If I were completely honest I would tell them role a warrior. It has nothing to do with being OP as in most situations they are not. However, from a practical stand point they are the least likely class to see major buffs or nerfs. Since they are the standard by which other classes are judged (great joke but they said it not us) it is highly unlikely warrior play will change all that much in the future. Lying or misrepresenting the class to new players is a nasty move in my opinion. If they love ele they will still play it. End of story.

This all over – I love my ele, he was my main from beta until last month. Now, he’s on the shelf, and I rock my ranger. (Rangers need a tonne of love too, but this isn’t the place for that conversation.)

The only bit I’d argue with is telling them to roll a warrior – I’ve got one as well, and the warrior forum has more QQ in it than any 3 other profession forums. (Not enough armour, not enough damage, not enough mobility, not enough healing, need more damage from rifle, etc.)

Think the best advice for any newcomer is to avoid the forums. I try (try, not succeed) to only post in threads about possible improvements, but lately I’ve been posting in threads to counter the rose-coloured glasses folks, who think everything’s good.

Until our entire class stops getting balanced around one spec, and one type of gameplay (s/tpvp, I’m looking at you!) we’re hurting, and we’ll stay there.

And you see this is where i take particular issue. Your response to my cement goes only as far as when I said I would tell them roll a warrior.

You say you have warrior but complaints about rifle are sparing and only pertain to bleed builds. As a power weapon rifle is one of the hardest hitting ranged single target weapons in the game. We have the highest armor in the game no one complains about it ever we are on top. Mobility complaints only go as far as axe and they are particularly rare considering the ridiculous amount of mobility we get of out of GS and sword. Not enough sustained is a pvp complaint no one complains about warrior damage just the capability to pin down a player, and people who run leg specialist never complain about that. I have to ask if you really play warrior as your concerns don’t really follow the popular opinion and insights of other warrior players outside of more sustained healing.

That being said please take the time to read what other people post. Why did I suggest warrior? I gave a pretty good explanation but you read something entirely different. Warrior game play hasn’t changed that much since shouts got nerfed (it didn’t change much then either). People may argue about quickness but overall warrior see very little change to actual game play. Warrior game play is also simple and very rewarding of pulling of the “basics”.

Overall if a new player said let me start an ele I would tell him try war first. Simply put war is neither inline for a major buff or a major nerf and is always solid in PvE. The game play hasn’t changed in months. It is one on the most welcome classes to any party. Game play is simple and rewarding. Underwater combat is strong. It is one of the best if not the best farming class. Leveling is simple and fast due to high low level DPS. Almost all weapons/combinations are good. I stand by what I said.

We share too much information here to tell anyone to avoid the forums. Despite all the QQ this is one of the best places to find help.

As an experienced MMORPG player of 10+ years having spent 5 of that in Dark Age of Camelot and 1 of that in Warhammer Online I can confidently state my opinion that Elementalists are the worst profession boards right now and that they are completely overreacting.

People on these boards are generally very selfish and do not properly consider balance as a whole. They also make wide sweeping statements about ele’s in general when in reality they are only speaking of just one fraction of the game. (I’m looking at you sPVP players)

Currently Ele’s are fun and viable in PVE and WvW in all builds though scepter needs a little love. They are also fairly viable in sPVP but no longer quite as good as they were.

BUT people had their super strong candy class and now they lost it. So now they cry doom and gloom and tantrum. Same old story, different game. The same people will then flock to another build/class that is OP or as close to it as possible and then repeat this whole scenario when that gets nerfed too.

Honestly, people should know that the strongest builds out there are nerf bait by now, and in truth they do. They don’t care though because they have tied their desire to own people to their ability to enjoy the game. Trying to explain to them to play the game for fun is like speaking another language.

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tl;dr Same story different day. Play OP build/class, get nerfed, cry on the forums, play new OP buid/class, rinse, repeat. Same as it has been for the last 10+ years, only people of this generation are more entitled than ever.

Ralathar.7236:

tl;dr Same story different day. Play OP build/class, get nerfed, cry on the forums, play new OP buid/class, rinse, repeat. Same as it has been for the last 10+ years, only people of this generation are more entitled than ever.

There is only one problem with your assessment: The CLASS was never OP, and our bunker BUILD was only OP in one game-type: conquest pvp, where bunkering is one of the best strategies. So the entire ele CLASS had 1 spec that was a little bit too good at not dying while supporting their team, doing decent damage, and could run if need be. I personally don’t care if toned down the survivabilty a bit (less cleanse, nerf Mist Form), or even made the running worse by a bit (shorter RtL distance, affected by cripples/chills). The worst thing is that they hurt other game-modes where bunkers aren’t all that useful (WvW and PvE), destroyed roaming playstyles (which were not OP), and had collateral damage to lots of other ele builds (staff, zerkers) that were already hanging by a thread. Its not that elementalists are whining they lost their super-do-it-all build, they are complaining b/c they hurt everything else so much more to get only a minor reduction in the efficacy of the awesome build we had. All that, and the areas that needed buffs (that were in no-way a risk for destabilizing the meta: staff skills, fire and air traits, conjures) still receive no attention.

And how the bunker ele was OP?
Now you’ve got a ranger with a pet dealing 3k dmg for hit while the ranger himself never die and fill you up with arrows from safe distance….

Arheundel.6451:

And how the bunker ele was OP?
Now you’ve got a ranger with a pet dealing 3k dmg for hit while the ranger himself never die and fill you up with arrows from safe distance….

The argument goes, and I understand it, that it was b/c the bunker ele could previously do it all: survive, good damage, team support, top mobility. Bunker rangers can stay alive 1v1 or 1v2 sometimes, with good pet support, but don’t bring a whole lot to a team-fight. They are meant to be fought out alone on an island. An ele on the other hand, could do just as good damage, survive just as long, but also make his team-mates better and get around however fast. I disagree with all of the changes, but I do agree that every spec should have trade-offs. As it is, the ranger does have some things they sacrifice, even if leash range is a little long.

LordByron.8369:

In www its not fun for sure, only thing you had before was mobility…now you have only short range and limitation…

Oh man, I laughed so hard when I read this. You silly kitten. All I have is limitations lol.

I didn’t argue that they should roll a warrior – they’re Anet’s glory child, so that’s a safe bet. What I said was I would steer them clear of the warrior forum.

BlackBeard.2873:

Ralathar.7236:

tl;dr Same story different day. Play OP build/class, get nerfed, cry on the forums, play new OP buid/class, rinse, repeat. Same as it has been for the last 10+ years, only people of this generation are more entitled than ever.

There is only one problem with your assessment: The CLASS was never OP, and our bunker BUILD was only OP in one game-type: conquest pvp, where bunkering is one of the best strategies. So the entire ele CLASS had 1 spec that was a little bit too good at not dying while supporting their team, doing decent damage, and could run if need be. I personally don’t care if toned down the survivabilty a bit (less cleanse, nerf Mist Form), or even made the running worse by a bit (shorter RtL distance, affected by cripples/chills). The worst thing is that they hurt other game-modes where bunkers aren’t all that useful (WvW and PvE), destroyed roaming playstyles (which were not OP), and had collateral damage to lots of other ele builds (staff, zerkers) that were already hanging by a thread. Its not that elementalists are whining they lost their super-do-it-all build, they are complaining b/c they hurt everything else so much more to get only a minor reduction in the efficacy of the awesome build we had. All that, and the areas that needed buffs (that were in no-way a risk for destabilizing the meta: staff skills, fire and air traits, conjures) still receive no attention.

Do you know how many times I’ve seen variations of that argument over10+ years and more than 10+ MMORPG’s? From the FOTM class in Dark Age of Camelot, to Fire Tanks in old School City of Hero’s, to Stunlock Rogues in WOW, to Clerics in Rift, and so many more.

Every class that has been OP or considered OP has made this argument. Quite frankly people are full of poo and they know it lol.

Example: Your statement of WvW. Bunkers are alive and well in WvW and still incredibly effective there when used well. The nerfs barely affected WvW and now bunkers can be caught occasionally instead of almost never.

Reason: You are focused on sPVP and pretend to have considerable knowledge beyond your area of expertise because you let your personal bias interfere.

My personal statement: Pretty much every Ele build is incredibly effective in WvW when used right. Ele’s are far from weak in any way in WvW. This is an area I can rightly claim a fair amount of expertise in with. I can build bunker, glass, hybrid, power, condition, both, healing/support, cc build, chill build, auramancer, etc on any weapon combo and do well. Ele’s are my main and I have experimented with them quite thoroughly in WvW and I bear the fruit of hundreds of hours of doing so.

RTL barely touched my viability in any build, the condition cleansing was a sPVP only change. I never relied on mist form as anything other than emergency damage mitigation in select situations because relying on it for more than that is bad play that exposes you unnecessarily to danger.

When you rely on select situational skills/builds due to their incredible power you actually limit your own capabilities when you can accomplish the same things with good play. When those same things get nerfed because they get the benefits of good play without the need to truly perform it is no surprise. This is the perspective of someone who has seen the balance wheel in action for his entire MMORPG career across numerous games.

Ralathar.7236:

Example: Your statement of WvW. Bunkers are alive and well in WvW and still incredibly effective there when used well. The nerfs barely affected WvW and now bunkers can be caught occasionally instead of almost never.

Reason: You are focused on sPVP and pretend to have considerable knowledge beyond your area of expertise because you let your personal bias interfere.

Actually, I do WvW WAY more than sPVP, to the point that WvW is more of my specialty area. I only keep a tab on the sPvP world so that I know what future nerfs are coming

I actually do play the D/D bunker in WvW, and my play-style was to roam solo, taking yaks, guards, and solo-ing camps. I am not super-pro or anything, but I am ok. This play-style was SEVERELY hampered by both the mist-form and RtL change. I agree with the mistform change, as it allowed me to react with my “oh-crap” much later and heal up then peace-out. I strongly disagree with the RtL change b/c I can rarely run at all when odds swing against me now, and they often do b/c my damage is just o.k. (meaning longer fights). When a couple people show up (usually thief + X), 1 immobilize and I am toast. I inevitably end up eating some burst before MF, but then they are on top of me. Good luck outrunning that thief now :-).

Of course anything can work in a zerg or big group, but that isn’t what the gripe was about. Try solo-roaming as a bunker/aurashare ele and you will understand why we upset. Warriors, thiefs, and rangers catch us with ease, and any kind of immobilize is deadly. Perhaps I need to go full-on bunker (0/0/20/20/30 with 2 runs of melandru and condition duration food to go with geomancer’s freedom) to have a chance to escape, but I can’t stand being a turtle.

Prior to the nerf, its not like D/D bunkers were owning people all over wvw. You had a few people who could troll small groups of up-levels (not downing them, just distracting), but it wasn’t nearly meta-changing power (for that see thief: the reason you need to PVT or gtfo). The only time I feel effective is playing the support role or running inside the safety of a larger group where I won’t get focused so quickly. My solo-capabilities bit the dust. It is for that reason I am growing up a ranger and thief, that way I will always have an option for solo-roaming that can actually get away (and boy are they fast in comparison).

So I’ve been trying out all these builds and went back to the aurasharing heal D/D build that we all love and man has it gotten weak. I can barely take down a mesmer and mobility is almost non existant.

BlackBeard.2873:

Ralathar.7236:

Example: Your statement of WvW. Bunkers are alive and well in WvW and still incredibly effective there when used well. The nerfs barely affected WvW and now bunkers can be caught occasionally instead of almost never.

Reason: You are focused on sPVP and pretend to have considerable knowledge beyond your area of expertise because you let your personal bias interfere.

Actually, I do WvW WAY more than sPVP, to the point that WvW is more of my specialty area. I only keep a tab on the sPvP world so that I know what future nerfs are coming

I actually do play the D/D bunker in WvW, and my play-style was to roam solo, taking yaks, guards, and solo-ing camps. I am not super-pro or anything, but I am ok. This play-style was SEVERELY hampered by both the mist-form and RtL change. I agree with the mistform change, as it allowed me to react with my “oh-crap” much later and heal up then peace-out. I strongly disagree with the RtL change b/c I can rarely run at all when odds swing against me now, and they often do b/c my damage is just o.k. (meaning longer fights). When a couple people show up (usually thief + X), 1 immobilize and I am toast. I inevitably end up eating some burst before MF, but then they are on top of me. Good luck outrunning that thief now :-).

Of course anything can work in a zerg or big group, but that isn’t what the gripe was about. Try solo-roaming as a bunker/aurashare ele and you will understand why we upset. Warriors, thiefs, and rangers catch us with ease, and any kind of immobilize is deadly. Perhaps I need to go full-on bunker (0/0/20/20/30 with 2 runs of melandru and condition duration food to go with geomancer’s freedom) to have a chance to escape, but I can’t stand being a turtle.

Prior to the nerf, its not like D/D bunkers were owning people all over wvw. You had a few people who could troll small groups of up-levels (not downing them, just distracting), but it wasn’t nearly meta-changing power (for that see thief: the reason you need to PVT or gtfo). The only time I feel effective is playing the support role or running inside the safety of a larger group where I won’t get focused so quickly. My solo-capabilities bit the dust. It is for that reason I am growing up a ranger and thief, that way I will always have an option for solo-roaming that can actually get away (and boy are they fast in comparison).

You must be doing it wrong, I’ve faced quite a few bunkers post patch that had no problem shrugging off countless attempts at CC and immob, dealing damage, and still being able to escape the vast majority of the time.

These bunkers that evidently have the build and know how to play pretty much require chain immobilize or boon ripping to kill.

why every time i read fishy post, i find an explanation in the post history :/

The patch was clearly a huge mistake…

It was aimed at PvP point control and spirit watch bunker eles….yet it ended hitting other builds and hidering severely PvE and WWW where again ele was never a threat.

Ele has no roaming build anymore…you maybe can escape like any other profession but for sure you cannot chase…..

Ralathar.7236:

My personal statement: Pretty much every Ele build is incredibly effective in WvW when used right. Ele’s are far from weak in any way in WvW.

For someone with 10+ years mmo experience that is the most foolish statement I have heard in a long time. Not all builds work. That’s not even up for debate. That’s a cross class fact. Let me tell you something about touting how much experience you have in MMOs. It means nothing. Creating builds, working with a team conquering dungeons, etc don’t mean diddly squat if it didn’t happen here. Its your understanding of this game the classes and mechanics that really matter.

I am assuming you are smart. You said yourself DD bunker barely got touched by the nerfs but then say they are justified. If bunkers were barely touched then who got hit? That’s right almost all other types of build.

The sad part is maybe because your jaded you see QQ and think.“Here we go again.”. You need to read first and understand some of the arguments here made by some very intelligent posters. QQ isn’t always, “You broke my toy now fix it”. Sometimes promises made get broken and the anger wells up from the the foolishness of others.

Take some time to actually read what is being said. You see while you see all part of the nerf as fair and older ele might be wiser. We had to argue to get EA earth back and we will argue now. Not all if this is emotion. The more classes you play the capable you are of sensing parity.

I wont say DD bunker was not OP in areas and that it isn’t OP in some areas now. I will say Anet’s moves til now have had 2 side effects. More bunker DD builds, and more people leaving the class or going inactive,

Ralathar.7236:

You must be doing it wrong, I’ve faced quite a few bunkers post patch that had no problem shrugging off countless attempts at CC and immob, dealing damage, and still being able to escape the vast majority of the time.

These bunkers that evidently have the build and know how to play pretty much require chain immobilize or boon ripping to kill.

Then whatever class you were on you were doing it wrong. Any good warrior theif or mesmer should be able to shut down the basic DD build. The mesmer might have the hardest time staying in melee but has all the tools to keep the DD ele in combat. Thief and Warrior can simply outrun and DPS the ele til down. Ranger has the capability to keep up but requires the pet to properly engage the ele though dogs should be a nice compliment to countering ele by forcing stun breaks.

Edit:
Also I see your in tier 5 (excuse my snooping). So you may have seen eles do things not really possible in higher tiers due to player density.

I’ve played a vast variety of Ele builds and quite simply they work in WvW. Not all work as roamer of course, but I have viable and important roles as each spec used correctly. This cannot be said of most professions to anywhere near the same degree.

I am assuming you are smart. You said yourself DD bunker barely got touched by the nerfs but then say they are justified. If bunkers were barely touched then who got hit? That’s right almost all other types of build.

RTL was always way too good and that is the main nerf bunkers received. It affects other too yes, but it was almost as effective of an escape for other builds too as RTL relied on escaping, not damage mitigation. It can still do that, just not to the same crazy degree. I do agree however it should get a 20 second cooldown as long as it is used on a target that it is in range of regardless of whether it hits or not. To keep with the spirit of it’s usage.

Mist Form nerf was more of a bug fix in my eyes. I never saw why it was a viable option to heal like that and they nerfed that across the board so it’s certainly not ele specific.

Then whatever class you were on you were doing it wrong. Any good warrior theif or mesmer should be able to shut down the basic DD build. The mesmer might have the hardest time staying in melee but has all the tools to keep the DD ele in combat. Thief and Warrior can simply outrun and DPS the ele til down. Ranger has the capability to keep up but requires the pet to properly engage the ele though dogs should be a nice compliment to countering ele by forcing stun breaks.

So you are saying specific specs can kill you if they can chase you down? Why is that a problem? Are you supposed to be unkillable or something? If that’s a problem to you that is not a style of thinking that means balance as those same spec’s also have their theoretical counters.

Even still though the range you have to run to safety is immense, and you can juke two of those in the water. Mesmer relies on charge lines for water mobility, that can be used against them. Warriors won’t have the same movement advantages you have in water, or the amount of CC. Used properly both can be handled in water so as to escape. Especially with proper use/timing of the air attunement teleport bubble, the stun, and chill.

Also I laugh every time someone complains that an auramancer build can’t solo X or Y build. Auramancer is a supportive build. The aura’s and such are balanced around their ability to be shared out. If it could solo and not be eaten by some other things out there it would be highly imbalanced.

I mean seriously guys?

Ralathar.7236:

I’ve played a vast variety of Ele builds and quite simply they work in WvW. Not all work as roamer of course, but I have viable and important roles as each spec used correctly. This cannot be said of most professions to anywhere near the same degree.

Chill build? Condition build? You’d be of more use to your team by just doing jumping puzzles all day to get siege. In WvW elementalists are no longer effective in any role beyond support with a staff, and in sPvP there’s not much point in taking a non-bunker ele.

I can make a scepter/dagger condition build work, but it’ll be far from effective, especially in WvW. I’ve made Berserker’s staff work against decent players in sPvP, but that doesn’t mean anyone in their right mind would want me on their team.

It’s not even a matter of builds being super competitive at the top level of play; almost every class has a few builds that outperform their others by light-years, meaning that they’re at a significant disadvantage if they don’t use specific builds, and elementalists are no exception.

Chaosky.5276:

Chill build? Condition build? You’d be of more use to your team by just doing jumping puzzles all day to get siege. In WvW elementalists are no longer effective in any role beyond support with a staff, and in sPvP there’s not much point in taking a non-bunker ele.

I can make a scepter/dagger condition build work, but it’ll be far from effective, especially in WvW. I’ve made Berserker’s staff work against decent players in sPvP, but that doesn’t mean anyone in their right mind would want me on their team.

Yes, you can apply chill to entire groups of people for long duration quite easily and you have many skills to choose from. Choosing to pursue that also leaves your stats open to be quite tanky. Mobility is key in WvW which is why Frozen Ground is so powerful from staff. By going tanky and focusing on chilling the enemy (You can literally have chill on more utilities than you can even equip by far) you give up alot of damage but you increase the damage of your zerg. I understand most people don’t understand that interrelation as it doesn’t give you any direct feedback that you helped, but it’s there. It also buffs the cripples, burns, bleeds, immobilizes, etc you have available as you are getting max condition duration.

Elementalists also have more than just scepter as an option for condition. D/D can apply significant condition damage. As can D/F as a tankier alternative. Both can cause severe disruption and still be pretty tanky too.

I agree that staff is still more effective in many cases. But the other options are definitely effective as well. You don’t throw everything else out just because one might be a little better in general.

Ralathar.7236:

Yes, you can apply chill to entire groups of people for long duration quite easily and you have many skills to choose from. Choosing to pursue that also leaves your stats open to be quite tanky. Mobility is key in WvW which is why Frozen Ground is so powerful from staff. By going tanky and focusing on chilling the enemy (You can literally have chill on more utilities than you can even equip by far) you give up alot of damage but you increase the damage of your zerg. I understand most people don’t understand that interrelation as it doesn’t give you any direct feedback that you helped, but it’s there. It also buffs the cripples, burns, bleeds, immobilizes, etc you have available as you are getting max condition duration.

How do I put this… I’d actually forgotten about the staff when I typed that, and was thinking of some kinda dagger/focus chill build. Despite referring to the staff in the next sentence. Uh, so, yeah, you can just ignore that.

Ralathar.7236:

Elementalists also have more than just scepter as an option for condition. D/D can apply significant condition damage. As can D/F as a tankier alternative. Both can cause severe disruption and still be pretty tanky too.

I agree that staff is still more effective in many cases. But the other options are definitely effective as well. You don’t throw everything else out just because one might be a little better in general.

What purpose does a condition ele serve, though? They have less AoE, and they actually need to struggle against the class mechanic to play a condition build (switch to water to heal, you’ve got about 9 seconds at best, probably more like 13, until you can really start dealing damage again).

Also, what role would you fulfill if not using the staff in WvW? With the reduction in mobility, there’s not much reason to choose an ele over a thief or ranger for roaming (inb4 Fiery Greatsword). I mean, I have fun with a glassy scepter/dagger build, but it’s not particularly good at anything in any game mode.

Most of the lesser-used builds eles have are reliant on teammates to support you and/or don’t effectively fill a particular role. That sounds like an accurate description of the little-used builds of other classes to me.

Chaosky.5276:

How do I put this… I’d actually forgotten about the staff when I typed that, and was thinking of some kinda dagger/focus chill build. Despite referring to the staff in the next sentence. Uh, so, yeah, you can just ignore that.

You can do either because once you start looking into it Ele has a remarkable amount of AOE chill including Glyph of Elemental power, glyph of storms, any arcane spells with Elemental Surge, and if you are human reaper of Grenth. Frost Bow is also an option.

It was something I kind of laughed at initially and then went “holy crap, there is a build or two here”. Either way you always carry a staff for sieges. Real weakness however of this build is the need to go into fire for condition duration and fire traits suck. Though I think they will eventually fix the fire line right now it’s yuck.

What purpose does a condition ele serve, though? They have less AoE, and they actually need to struggle against the class mechanic to play a condition build (switch to water to heal, you’ve got about 9 seconds at best, probably more like 13, until you can really start dealing damage again).

Both Earth and Fire have condition options. Admittedly though for scepter fire is bad and needs buffs, hopefully they will do that one day.

Also, what role would you fulfill if not using the staff in WvW? With the reduction in mobility, there’s not much reason to choose an ele over a thief or ranger for roaming (inb4 Fiery Greatsword). I mean, I have fun with a glassy scepter/dagger build, but it’s not particularly good at anything in any game mode.

S/D is good at small scale, D/D or D/F can be almost as useful at staff in larger battles. Obviously Staff trumps everything for zerg vs zerg though. Which is one reason I scoff at everyone trying to buff staff.

But honestly maybe people don’t want to play only X, Y, Z build every time they log on. Maybe they are 10%-20% less effective overall but we also play the game for fun. Someone that doesn’t even want to play because they will have to play the exact same thing every single time is 100% less effective. Otherwise you’d have nothing but staff ele’s, guardians, hammer/sword/horn/shout warriors, etc in WvW.

Speaking of those warriors, the hammer/sword/horn/shout warrior is actually the biggest argument against playing anything condition based in WvW at all. Until they get nerfed condition builds will be completely kittened vs any organized group as 50% of their dps is removed or turned into a boon.

or as i wrote at least 10 times you could read OFFICIAL sotg interview and stop talking of something that doesn t exist like OP www ele and RTL.

Nobody thougt RTL needed a www nerf as much as nobody thougt warrior needed a WWW buff.

Yet look at what they done.

But please continue to say Ele its clearly OP in WWW….and maybe reading some profiles add that thief is UP and needs buff…