Guild Wars 2

as for now the best pve healing for ele (with 50%+ crit rate) is not some ultra OP ele skill but actually is is a food – 66% life steal on crit.
Without this food a dps oriented dd ele dies to almost any champion in the game in less than 10 seconds. With this food it can solo ~50% champions in the game.
Also for dungeon and multiple strong mobs using dd watter autoatack gives you like 1000hp/s with this lifesteal food.
Glassy dd ele with lifesteal food has comparable healing with almost full tank/heal dd without this food. But the dps is like 2.5x bigger in the first case.

Ele healing (AND ANY OTHER CLASS) can be strong if you go 100% healing power – which is obvious absurd for pve.

In pvp any ele bunkier/cantrip build can be easily 1v1 killed vs a counter necro build. Necro gonna win 100 times in 100 fights – ele has 0 chance of winning no matter how good he is. Same as lame gc thief (the source of “pls nerf ele”) has 0% chance of winning against dd ele

eh I don’t really care what they do for PVP I just hope it doesn’t screw up my ability to do events and dungeons. We’re already not a terribly popular class in that area.

I know you guys love your class, and will defend it over any kind of nerf that could happen.

But lets be realistic, Elem were at the top of the food chain in sPvP, and this was a sPvP Discussion about Elem. Since they can change ability in sPvP only, it prolly won’t affect them in PvE. It’s going to be harder in WvW tho, since they are top class too, and share the same nerf then PvE.

Don’t jump too fast PvE people, this change might not affect you.

As for sPvP, I’M sure you guys knew you had the upper hand. Just when the 100nade build became popular, people talked about it on the engineer forum, and most people would agree that it could be toned down to make more build viable. And engineer are in the bottom for sPvP.

Elem can do the same. Look at how powerful you can be (Your skill cap is higher, I agree, but it doesn’t mean you should be stronger) : mobility, boon, condition removal, bunker, substainer damage (no burst), defensive cooldown. That’s a lot of thing for a single build.

The Top team in NA/EU all run at least one elem, and many run 2 of them. Elem have nothing crazy OP, but like the dev have say, they have so many thing that are a bit better then average, that overall they are better.

Don’t see it as the end of the road. Some class get nerfed and aren’t even part of the top sPvP meta. Nerfing can open new build, just like when they nerfed your staff. People switched to DD and it is a really fun build.

Nerf and Buff happen in MMO, it can be annoying sometime, but looks pass it. Last time they announced they would nerf thief BS, thief cried about it, but ultimatly the nerf wasn’t even affecting them. Some even said it made them better.

Wait and see, I’m sure it won’t be as bad as people think.

P.S : People talking about thief, I’m not a fan of thief, but in high level tpvp, the class is a lot less efficient. Pretty balanced class. It’s just that they are really easy to play, and in lower rank game, they are efficient.

Kardiamond.6952:

But lets be realistic, Elem were at the top of the food chain in sPvP

no its not – as I wrote a necro counter build gonna win each fight vs bunkier ele – no exception here.
In this game a “top” class/build does not exist – each build has its counter build.
Ele is proably the most versatile class, and if we assume power=versatile then yes – ele is the best. The problem is ele bunker is not a versatile build – its totaly handicaped build with quite high suravability vs most of the standard builds and very fragile vs specialized counter build… and also it has almost non existing dps – again its not versatile, its not OP, it requires a counter.

Watching the whole video and not just the 30 second clip where they mentioned that the Ele has too many small things that work together I am not worried. They said, repeatedly, they aren’t interested in playing whack-a-mole and in fact want to introduce more good builds to the scene to see if the current builds are really that powerful or just a matter of not being any other viable counters/builds. They want strong builds, but they also want strong counters. If after they introduce and add strong counters said builds are still too strong they are going to look at adjusting as needed.

I can see them focusing on D/D ele AE as that spec is pretty absurd with how easy it is to play. I realize there is a gap between a bad D/D and good D/D ele, but to be effective with D/D all you do is stand close to your target and push anything that isn’t on cooldown and switch to air+rtl if things get rough. When you consider sPvP with very specific objectives that people fight on and limited places to run away, of course a spec/class that merely needs to stand within 300 yards of you to deal 100% of its damage is going to be overpowered. Melee can’t even do this because they have to be much closer, actually face the target, and, in the warrior’s case, don’t have the condition removal to stay in range.

Things like healing yourself when attuning to water. 2k+ heals from blast finishers in water fields. RTL not being on a 20 second cooldown. Every attack being an AE. This is what makes the spec overpowered and very easy to excel with. The only thing we know that isn’t a problem with the spec is the damage as this spec is mostly for bunker builds, but some would argue that for the amount of escapes available, perhaps the damage is too high.

Honestly don’t know how you would fix it, but nerfing the healing seems the most logical place to start.

Lavadiel.6231:

Kardiamond.6952:

But lets be realistic, Elem were at the top of the food chain in sPvP

no its not – as I wrote a necro counter build gonna win each fight vs bunkier ele – no exception here.
In this game a “top” class/build does not exist – each build has its counter build.
Ele is proably the most versatile class, and if we assume power=versatile then yes – ele is the best. The problem is ele bunker is not a versatile build – its totaly handicaped build with quite high suravability vs most of the standard builds and very fragile vs specialized counter build… and also it has almost non existing dps – again its not versatile, its not OP, it requires a counter.

Care to share your build? One of my main is a necro, and I found out fast enought that
people saying that necro were a hard counter to DD Elem, didn’t play again top tpvp elem.

I’m not saying you are wrong, but I would be curious to see it.

Myself, my hardest fight are again Elem and Mesmer. But I can’t use that to judge if a class is strong or not.

But When I see top team streaming, with Elem DD being 40% of each team, and I see how strong they can be, I think it’s fair to say that when you master this class, few can counter it.

Atherakhia.4086:

Things like healing yourself when attuning to water. 2k+ heals from blast finishers in water fields. RTL not being on a 20 second cooldown.

Sorry bro, but what are you exactly talking about?

Water Field = Staff
RTL = Dagger

You cannot have both in one build.

right, sorry for the confusion.

Loco.4561:

D/D Ele at the moment in it’s present incarnation IS overpowered.

you seems to be playing a different game, please elaborate further ‘cause against other classes I don’t feel godlike at all.

I think healing power needs to be scaled down slightly and they need to try and figure out a way reducing the effect of boon stacking.

too bad boons and healing are exactly what the class is based upon. It would be like saying “warriors are too much heavy armors and big swords dependant….”

Hopefully they will make slight down-step adjustments, D/D Ele’s still have some of the best mobility in the game.

Elementalist still lacks the most important component for the accomplishment of its individuality: “punch”. It’s versatile, but it lacks punch.
Also, mobility is useless when you have the damage output of a fly.

teg.1340:

Atherakhia.4086:

Things like healing yourself when attuning to water. 2k+ heals from blast finishers in water fields. RTL not being on a 20 second cooldown.

Sorry bro, but what are you exactly talking about?

Water Field = Staff
RTL = Dagger

You cannot have both in one build.

About the healing, here an explanation why healing other then #6 is a bit over the top for the Elemtalist DD/SD.

Taken from Zoose post :

“Because the truth of the matter is the ele sustain is so good because the base level of these heals are so good. Couple it with a cleric’s amulet it will let you heal to full from 10% AND it will heal your teammates AROUND you as well.

Now, eles have a low HP pool, true, which makes it look like it heals for a ton! But I’ve done the math for scepter heals and with #3 and #5 alone with a cleric’s amulet you are going to heal for over 5k HP with two buttons. With Arcana Elemental attunement trait (V) switching into water heals you for almost 3k. That’s 8k total now. Dodge rolling will also heal for another 3k. That’s now up to 11k total. You can see where this is getting ridiculous. 11k without pressing the actual heal button just yet?!? Come on, guys. I play an Ele. I know this is silly. Triple cantrips with the regen per cantrip trait will also heal eles over time for a huge amount through all 3 cantrips which all act as stun breakers or protection procs. That’s going to be well over 15k over a span of 20 seconds, and 11k heals in a span of about 4 seconds with the best eles being able to cast cancel INTO other things while they’re healing.
With a conquest style game the EU meta is seeing many, many s/d bunker eles. And I am taking one for you EU guys, but sustain for s/d eles need to be looked at. Period.
Hearts all around"

we all can discuss until the world ends tomorrow and the devs will still nerfed us elementalist. So, I think it is a good idea to just live with it.
Like i said before, if WvW spam AoE because of us ele AoE, so, if 5 ele was originally used , then after the nerf, we just use 20 eles to compensate for the lost of the AoE nerfing.

If dungeons AoE spammage is the problem, then we try to use it as much as possible. Let the metrics show that we will not be affected by the nerf.

That is if everyone wants to continue playing an ele after the nerf. Or, everyone goes bunker still even after the nerf and show them nerfing does not compensate for skill of the players…

People will get over the nerf.

Most people dislike when there class get nerfed, and it’s ok.

When Engi got a 30% damage nerf on their grenade, everybody cried.

Now, if you sPvP a bit, you will see that we have even more Engineer since that nerf.

Player will just adapt. Only a few will stop playing.

There is nothing OP about a D/D ele in WvW. The tradeoff for your additional survivability is by drastically reducing your damage capability. (and if you go glass as a D/D in WvW you are just asking to be repeatedly killed on inc)

The only place a D/D ele can be considered over powered is in a 1v1 situation. Even then, the D/D ele is only perceived as OP because they can out last people over a long period of time and escape easily if they start to lose. Its not like they are running around wtf 2 shotting people like GC thieves are.

Anyways, you know the whine train has ran out of control when you see complaints of D/D eles surviving zergs of enemies while destroying everyone with high damage AE….. especially when it is not even remotely close to reality

Yes sPvP is a different issue entirely….. you are always guaranteed to be fighting small groups of people. Obviously there is a slightly different perspective there that isn’t applicable to WvW.

Covenn -> Well the Devs were talking about sPvP, not WvW.

Yes because guardians running in and out of zergs by themselves and living is totally ok.

Really, the point is that D/D ele is currently SLIGHTLY more effective then it should be in sPvP. (This is a ligit problem as proven by the lack of variety in the best team’s profession breakdown)

The fear is that any nerf to ele in sPvP will also effect it in WvW and PvE, where it is already a rather difficult class to play. Please ANet, be careful to not break our class in these areas.

covenn.7165:

The only place a D/D ele can be considered over powered is in a 1v1 situation. Even then, the D/D ele is only perceived as OP because they can out last people over a long period of time and escape easily if they start to lose. Its not like they are running around wtf 2 shotting people like GC thieves are.

If “over powered” means “extremely hard to kill” then you are right. Buts thats also true for many other professions. I had many 1vs1s against decent thieves, mesmers, engineers and guardians which literally last forever.

I think we will all agree that some professions/builds are extremely viable for 1vs1. d/d bunker ele is one of them. But don’t forget that for achieving that level of tankiness, ele has to sacrifice alot of damage.

My d/d ele is extremely hard to kill, but at the same time it’s extremely hard for me to kill anyone! In WvW most enemies can outlast my damage until other players join the fight.

If they are just talking about spvp I don’t know what the complaint is. You can set up an spvp character in 10 minutes.

Touch my pve performance, and ya I’ll be really kitten Ele is a pain in the kitten to level. the only two classes that are close to as hard to level are mesmer, and thief, and I think that is fair. You want the rewards of having a really excellent performing WvW, PvE character they should be harder to level.

If you want to level while checking your facebook like a guard, or ranger you shouldn’t be as awesome in the end.

But ya spvp who cares? You can completely rebuild yourself for free or you can roll something else, and be instantly back in the mix.

I for one am thankful for this nerf. It might actually be a challenge using the class now. No more soloing 6-8 people. I’m also happy that other weapon sets will get a buff so they’re actually effective in WvW.

Time to dust off my elementalist…

Lothial.7859:

If they are just talking about spvp I don’t know what the complaint is. You can set up an spvp character in 10 minutes.

Touch my pve performance, and ya I’ll be really kitten Ele is a pain in the kitten to level. the only two classes that are close to as hard to level are mesmer, and thief, and I think that is fair. You want the rewards of having a really excellent performing WvW, PvE character they should be harder to level.

If you want to level while checking your facebook like a guard, or ranger you shouldn’t be as awesome in the end.

But ya spvp who cares? You can completely rebuild yourself for free or you can roll something else, and be instantly back in the mix.

sPvP communty care.

Lets say Necro could 1 shot people in spvp (not true, just for an example), it would be “okay” since we can just reroll necro and be instantly back in the mix? I fail to see your reasoning.

Also, how is leveling hard? Leveling is easy with any class, be it mesmer, elem or thief.

Having a harder time leveling sin’t a reason why a class should be stronger then the other. Who would play a class easy to level only to be the weakest at the end?

some one has to say it…

I sincerely hope that if they ruin this style of play, it’s only for sPvP. I enjoy it far too much in PvE for it to be nerfed into the ground. We’ve got easymode classes like Guardian running rampant, but oh, let’s deal with that active and mentally stimulating Ele class!

I’ve been playing my Warrior more anyway. Bring on the nerfs.

Hmm, I wonder if the D/D builds that AREN’T the cookie cutter spec will be faring. I fear for my beloved 0/30/0/30/10.

I hope they can tone the D/D 0/10/0/30/30 build down, without affecting other builds too much. If they nerf healing as they said, builds with less heal (no EA) will suffer quite a bit. And imagine staff builds with less healing. Ow.

But hey, we can adapt, eh? They should give us some better damage traits (much better), and some sort of way to make burst (and other) specs viable. Now, the burst itself as a glass “cannon” isn’t viable, if the opponent is semi-aware. And we can’t hide/sneak in for an attack. Squishy, mediocre damage and very visible. Bad combo, I daresay.

Grevender.9235:

Loco.4561:

D/D Ele at the moment in it’s present incarnation IS overpowered.

you seems to be playing a different game, please elaborate further ‘cause against other classes I don’t feel godlike at all.

I think healing power needs to be scaled down slightly and they need to try and figure out a way reducing the effect of boon stacking.

too bad boons and healing are exactly what the class is based upon. It would be like saying “warriors are too much heavy armors and big swords dependant….”

Hopefully they will make slight down-step adjustments, D/D Ele’s still have some of the best mobility in the game.

Elementalist still lacks the most important component for the accomplishment of its individuality: “punch”. It’s versatile, but it lacks punch.
Also, mobility is useless when you have the damage output of a fly.

If you don’t feel godlike, then you simply cannot play this profession.

Just from your statements, it show’s you have NO clue about what an Elementalist actually is. You say “Boons and healing power are what the class is about”. I don’t know where to start on how wrong that statement is. Elementalists mechanic is ATTUNEMENT SWITCHING. The healing power + boons are a result of the D/D spec, accessories and the popular boon stacking from runes

Of course mobility matters, if I have permanent vigor, almost permanant swiftness (perma regen). And I can dodge roll out at will or use one of 3 cantrips to negate damage, that means that your not hitting me and you can’t telegraph your burst on me. It also means that I can engage/disengage at will with very, very little fear of actually being caught or killed.

I’ve played D/D Ele since early beta, I have never bothered with staff I have played basically the same build since beta and before it became FOTM I was able to fight against many, many players and win. I’ve said ages ago that the build needs toning down, not the profession.

Leave the skills as they are, downgrade the scaling on healing power and change boons so they cannot be stacked as a permanent buff and should be used as they are intended, which is a short term buff.

Oh and tone down some of the food buffs too for all professions.

sigh, another “pro” {facepalm}
Attunement switching is part of the process required to get effective heals and boons so, unless you prefer to spend your ingame time downed whilst the others play, or roam swinging a wand babbling magical words while a Warrior nails you on the ground with a giant hammer… well… you have to heal and keep your boons up.
Read again: to be effective
Other classes have weapons switching, we have attunement switching as a PORTION of our class mechanic.
Without boons you are not going to survive, let alone impress someone.

Now, slightly boost Elementalist damage output, it’s okay if you need to make combos/boons harder to complete, improve AoE effectiveness, don’t touch healing unless you give us some better kind of protection: good job.

I don’t make “leaving” threads usually, but this statement almost made me make one. If they nerf anything about the ele without giving them more buffs, I will be gone. Right now eles really need a slight buff. (non d/d). This isn’t my opinion, this is a fact known by anyone who has played the game extensively. D/D ele doesn’t need a nerf, this is a L2P issue. Thieves are just mad that they can’t 2 shot eles out of stealth so it is taking more time for them to farm badges. I’m a d/d ele and I can still really only manage to kill rangers and engineers 1v1. Warriors/Guardians are a stalemate, necros run away, theives/mesmers are basically not even targettable. I really don’t understand why Anet dislikes eles, maybe they find them too difficult to balance? They really should just remove them from the game altogether at this point and let anyone who currently has one be refunded with another class until they figure this stuff out.

Cool nerf it.

But ummm…how do I use D/F? Serious. No flipping damage brah.

Every one who says the base Healing of ele is high is …..wrong. Base healing is pretty small, but the scaling is high. Our 6 Heals have medium CD with low base value. Heal in weapon skills are relatively low but they all have 1:1 scaling. Think heal base value is high? Please try a build with 0 point in water and no healing in gear/amulet and see for yourself :P

Otaur.9268:

D/D Ele Nerf, Engineer kit buff.

How does ANet “balance”? Ask Spirit Rangers; Anet deletes the build.

And yes youll loose more people.Elementalist are overpowered when the person playing them is good and knows his class .It is the same as any other class.Do it and loose more people I love this game and it hurts me too see every1 playing for a few months and leaving.And for sure its not the fault of the community because the community here is quite nice.That leaves you…The developers.Every time you try to fix something you destroy it.No actual support help.No proggress fixing bugs..Please go ahead and destroy another class.It is sad that I actually spend so much time playing last few months to just leave the game because of low quality developing.

Well, they DID say that they will try to make weapons and traits (or was it skills?) better, and instead of whack-a-nerf, bring other things up.

Try not to be too pessimistic, even though it can be hard as an ele, haha. A shame that one build, with a specific fun to play and evenly paced style can bring so much trouble to the eles in general.

To EvilSardine: If you are tired of winning over many enemies in WvW, then try another build that ISN’T D/D 0/10/0/30/30, or similar build you might be using. You could try out D/D 0/20/30/10/10 with signets instead of cantrips (for example) and see if you manage just as well.

How about that for a nerf, and the devs wouldn’t even have to raise a finger to help you out, poor fella. Have a nice day, sir.

Kardiamond.6952:

People will get over the nerf.

Most people dislike when there class get nerfed, and it’s ok.

When Engi got a 30% damage nerf on their grenade, everybody cried.

Now, if you sPvP a bit, you will see that we have even more Engineer since that nerf.

Player will just adapt. Only a few will stop playing.

I agree that most players will adapt to the NERF and only some will stop playing.

But that’s only until another decent MMO comes along. Those who struggled to adapt will have another choice then and many will not hestitate to jump ship.

Anet is very capable of ‘beautifying’ their actions by playing with words. Example, when they say they ‘fix’ something, they actually meant they are going to nerf it. Many skill bugs still being ignored and their priority is set on nerfing, I mean ‘fixing’ game play balance. Another example, the so-called Dynamic Levelling Adjustment. Nice words but it actually means Dynamic Levelling Nerf.

Anet this makes no sense….. who will kill mesmers now O.o ?

Change Water EA dodge into an aoe chill, thats one less 2k heal every 10 seconds, a pretty big nerf to eles heal rotation.

The moment I discovered D/D bunker ele I knew the nerfs were inminent, currently they’re overpowered and noone in their right mind would deny it.

However if they truly are going to butcher our only viable build, they better give us better alternatives, and we should still be able to beat a mesmer/thief/warrior if we outplay them, currently that’s not possible with a dps build unless the skill difference is too big.

As long as they give a significant buff to the other weapons it should be alright..

I dont care what they do with yawnfest s/tPvP.

But please dont touch our WvWvW ele

Fuzzion.2504:

I dont care what they do with yawnfest s/tPvP.

But please dont touch our WvWvW ele

Yea I’m incredibly disappointed with them as a company with this whole interconnected BS they’re spouting how they want X class to play the same when they go into SPvP, WvW or PvE. Quite frankly it’s unrealistic and it’s never going to work. You’re simply not going to play the same build in WvW as SPvP because it’s two different environments with two different requirements. My 30 vs 30 spec obviously isn’t going to be the same as if I am going to be fighting 2v2 so why even bother?

They need to go back to implementing the PvE vs PvP version of each skill again like they did in GW1. This way they can feel free to change and muck up whatever they want for SPvP without screwing up the game for WvW and PvE.

Again I just hope before they screw with anything they boost the other Ele lines a bit to make them into viable builds that are competitive.

I hope Anet understands that D/D Ele is overpowered not due to damage/control/mobility, but due to the OP healing (can get from 20% to full in seconds) and ability to self-rally through downed mist form.

I don’t want to see you guys overnerfed, just removed the fact I need to plow throw 2 healthbars to get a kill on you.
It’s kind of frustrating when I down a D/D Ele, he rezzes up, heals to full and then he kills me as I’m out of cooldowns.
If I got you down, I should win, just like against any other class.

Red Falcon.8257:

I hope Anet understands that D/D Ele is overpowered not due to damage/control/mobility, but due to the OP healing (can get from 20% to full in seconds) and ability to self-rally through downed mist form.

There is no self rally in mist form…

And as OP as going from 20% to 100% in seconds, the opposite is equally OP from 100% to 0% in even less seconds, that’s insanely more OP

maddoctor.2738:

Red Falcon.8257:

I hope Anet understands that D/D Ele is overpowered not due to damage/control/mobility, but due to the OP healing (can get from 20% to full in seconds) and ability to self-rally through downed mist form.

There is no self rally in mist form…

And as OP as going from 20% to 100% in seconds, the opposite is equally OP from 100% to 0% in even less seconds, that’s insanely more OP

Pretty much this. Anyone not liking that we can heal to full in a flash should consider the fact that some classes can strip our entire health bar in, well actually, a much shorter amount of time.

I’d be happy if they nerfed heal effectiveness and buffed our base HP to be on par with other scholar professions.

Good. D/D eles are very overpowered right now. They are practically invincible. They have the best bunker and mobility in the game, makes no sense.

Raif.9507:

Yes because guardians running in and out of zergs by themselves and living is totally ok.

You obviously have never played a guard and have no clue how to play your ele if you make if you make a comment like this. Guard has among the worst mobility in the game. All a guard can do in a zerg is 3 seconds of invincibility, 2 seconds of block and then they are dead. I see eles dive into zergs and escape easily all the time. You can dive into a zerg, fight for a bit, teleport out whenever you need to and then ride the lightning so nobody can chase you.

I play thief, warrior, guardian and elementalist (occasionally mesmer).

I feel like a god as D/D, it’s kind of the same as backstab thief.

Like the whole world is just a playground for my personal entertainment, nothing is much of a struggle, and I can always get out of trouble if I screw up.

@Fishergrip: got a case of class envy? We use the tools at our disposal, yes it’s fun jumping in and tickling the enemy then running away like a little girl. Guards don’t “jump” into a zerg, they plough through them instead.

Comparing a bunker guardian vs. a bunker ele the only difference is ele’s have more mobility and comparable damage.

Daharahj.1325:

The moment I discovered D/D bunker ele I knew the nerfs were inminent, currently they’re overpowered and noone in their right mind would deny it.

However if they truly are going to butcher our only viable build, they better give us better alternatives, and we should still be able to beat a mesmer/thief/warrior if we outplay them, currently that’s not possible with a dps build unless the skill difference is too big.

D/D eles are no threat to me even using a staff or scepter/focus while still not using any bunker build, if the D/D eles I face are bunker then it’s even more easy because they deal no dmg, the skill animation of the ele are so blatant that it’s impossible to get hit by them unless you make a big mistake.

MarzAttakz.9608:

@Fishergrip: got a case of class envy? We use the tools at our disposal, yes it’s fun jumping in and tickling the enemy then running away like a little girl. Guards don’t “jump” into a zerg, they plough through them instead.

Comparing a bunker guardian vs. a bunker ele the only difference is ele’s have more mobility and comparable damage.

No, I don’t get class envy because I play all classes. I have leveled 4 chars to 80, have 67 ele, 10k wvw kills, so I’ve played enough to know a bit about the game and not be extremely biased in my views as most people seem to be on class forums. The ele is simply a bit too good right now and the fact that Anet is talking about nerfing them proves that point. If you think guards plow through zergs you haven’t played one. Guards get killed by zergs more than any other class because they can’t run away. They might be able to survive a bit longer than most while being focus fired, but they can’t do much to escape being focused. If your allies aren’t close by, a guard in a zerg is dead.