Guild Wars 2

So, did the overloads mechanics convince you to make a tempest? Are you going to roll one, and effectively use the elite while playing dungeons, fractals, spvp, wvw? How often do you see yourself playing with tempest? Do you feel useful when you spec into tempest trait line? How do you see yourself post-HoT?

In its current state you may see some guilds run tempests in wvw but expect most to still run staff ele. In pvp you won’t see it in conquest, but it might be worth using in stronghold. For pve it won’t be used.

How do you see yourself post-HoT?

I will still main my ele, play the good old builds and be like this when I see people playing other classes with their awesome elite spec:

http://i.imgur.com/wbiwZ35.gif

Currently the Tempest has convinced me to play another class.

It convinced me that its the worse of the elite professions. It’s not made to work with staff and fast attunement swapping, 2 of the most important elements of the elementalist. And the elite “Rebound” is complete kitten, besides all the other issues.

I wished I had something positive to say about the overloads themselves but sadly I don’t. Unless they make it so that you do not have to camp an attunement and that they do not interrupt your skill flow I really do not see any advantages in using them.

It could have been much simpler, but more effective; for example overloading could just do a burst and recharge all your attunements.

Or it could have given you a new boon/condi on attunement with proper traits:
Quickness and AoE torment when attuning to air
Alacrity and AoE Float when attuning to water
Resistance and AoE slow when attuning to earth
Retal and AoE burning when attuning to fire

In regards to Tempest traits, I’m sad because they don’t really follow the theme of Robert Gee’s designs, which are basically 3 unique playstyles that fall under the overarching unique playstyle of the elite spec.

In my opinion, Tempest traits fail to do this and are honestly a cluttered and unfocused mess, so that taking Tempest traits actually hurts you compared to taking fire or earth traits.

Line 1 of Tempest traits is focused on shouts/breaking stuns for allies. The gale song proc is marginally useful, but the shout trait is wasted because of shout CDs and the overall ineffectiveness of the non-heal shouts compared to cantrips. Imbued melodies breaks the theme a bit by not having anything to do with shouts, and breaking stuns for allies isn’t the type of useful support that it sounds like, because warhorn cast times make it impossible to break stun on allies before the disable wears off, an ally breaks its own stun, and its overall too difficult to coordinate to be meaningful support.

Line 2 attempts to focus on overall other passive boosts, but it also fails to do this meaningfully. Latent Stamina is quite possible the worst trait I have ever seen. Since the vigor nerf, that amount of vigor is useless and 10% enduarance is far too little to be worth anything. Plus that and heatsync are the ele’s only way of granting vigor to allies. Earthen Proxy is a very good idea, but its overall a wasted concept. The 7% extra damage reduction accomplishes little compared to stone heart (even if facerolled). Lucid Singulairty in this line is so out of place and has nothing to do with the other traits in this line.

Line 3 focuses on auramancy (sort of). Elemental Bastian and unstable conduits open up an actually newish playstyle but there are some problems. Shouts are required to do auramancy effectively, so it would make more sense for tempestuous arias to be in this line as its overall better synergy (harmonious conduits should honstly just be folded into the class baseline).

I instead recommend that we take the chrono/reaper/berserk approach to traits and try to make 3 unique playstyles in each line of the of the elite spec’s trait options. In general, these are that 1 line tries to make a sustainy brawler/bruiser, 1 line focuses on the buff/condition that the spec focuses on (alacrity/chill/burn with the above examples) and line 3 focuses on making something that’s more DPS based in nature to use the typical examples. (some of the liens amongst these different specs are in different orders but you get the picture).

For Tempest:

Line 1: should focus on making a sustainy brawler/bruiser so auras and shouts should be folded into that line, as they provide support through auras and boons while improving overall sustain.

Line 2: should focus on improving the tempest’s specialized buff/condition, which for them is probably protection. Have earthen proxy be here, make it better, and give traits that give extra bonus ways to apply protection to self/allies and have protection apply stability and stuff like that. This would let tempest apply support through mastery of protection.

Line 3: should be a more offensive based line that tries to harness the offensive potential of the overloads. I’d recommend traits that power up overload damage and potency, and maybe something that lets you get the overloads off without being interrupted as easily (moar breakbars plz). Even though tempest wants to do support, it should still allow an offensive playstyle to happen, since we’re trying to summon storms on our opponents.

tl;dr- the Tempest trait’s individual lines are very unfocused and lack synergy at all. We should take the example of Robert Gee’s designs and go with 3 different playstyles represented through tiers of the traitline, one being sustainy/supporty, one focusing on protection, and one focusing on damage, offense and overloads.

It convinced me to start looking for another mmo.

It’s convinced me to hold off on buying HoT. :P

No joke though, Tempest was 90% of the reason why I was excited about the expansion. I don’t like playing any other profession, and I was really excited to play Ele in a new way after three years of the same stale builds.

At the moment though, Tempest isn’t living up to the stated goal of opening up new playstyles for the Ele IMO. So, I will continue to hold off on purchasing HoT.

Xillllix.3485:

It convinced me that its the worse of the elite professions. It’s not made to work with staff and fast attunement swapping, 2 of the most important elements of the elementalist. And the elite “Rebound” is complete kitten, besides all the other issues.

I wished I had something positive to say about the overloads themselves but sadly I don’t. Unless they make it so that you do not have to camp an attunement and that they do not interrupt your skill flow I really do not see any advantages in using them.

Yep, this. The whole design was a complete miss on all fronts. The first major mistake being to try to clone D/D gameplay instead of trying to differentiate and give us something materially different than what we’ve already been playing for 3 years.

By far the worst elite spec, I hope they find a way to preserve most of their hard work but completely rework Overloads, the traits, and the elite. Ideally convert the warhorn into a main-hand, since that’s what we really needed, but now i’m dreaming.

I plan to use Tempest, Overloads, Shouts (sans the elite unless it’s changed) occasionally Warhorn in PvE, Fractals, Dungeons and the occasional WvW.

I plan to use my Ele as a bank character and swap to Revenant/Herald.

Overcharges in general are OK. I see them as option for ocasional use but not as a benefit of tempest. So they are neutral for balancing value.
Most important are the traits (and rebound beeing horrible).
Nearlight did describe it well.

I failed to use tempest trying to bring something new to my ele.
For me shouts + traits (untraited overcharges don´t count a point) have to validly exchange arcane traitline with all boonsharing + extra damage and make shouts valid to substitute cantrips/arcane shield+healing. So i can go for added group support.

What is the minimum i need for that?
1.) Movement speed baseline (like cronomancer)
2.) Condi removal on shouts or auras. (at least self) (soldier rune is no option using that would cost me 25% damage)

This would allow me to use utility slots for shouts. I would give up about 10% damage and boonsharing + forfit two stun breakers (get at least the auto) for aura shouts.
Alone thinking of furry from swap lost makes me still unease …

Otherwise i am stuck and the traitline offer me nothing to be near arcane.
Substitution any other traitline would be an outright loss of 20-30% damage + either mean loss of some CC or totally loss of defence and scrap my ele. :-(

I also tried to do a complete new ele. Tempest seems only useful as healer.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJBIhdSfJ0gJWhJ4fJwHBW+AM33ad9vOcACAPwiw4E8FA-TJxGwAAOBASLD4b/BCPAAA

Yesterday I had a talk with a guildie. He believed tempest would focus on two things: super speed buff (almost exclusive to eles) and critical damage. To compensate for it, tempests would have low survivability or less boon/might generation, and have raw high damage instead. It turned out to be impossible for elementalist as a whole to have raw high damage, because of how easy it is to stack 25x might.

We came to the conclusion elementalists will always spoil any elite spec, and therefore should have core spec nerfs, as well as D/D toolset revised. We’re not sure how difficult that would be, but tempest feels the most underwhelming elite spec so far (specially after DH changes, while not optimal it has left tempests behind in terms of worst spec).

Not sure what the devs will do to address tempests. I understand it’s a very difficult to balance class, yet I can’t help be very disappointed.

I liked Overloads, especially Air and Water ones.

Fire…I think something like big, ground-targeted fireball version of a little stronger Killshot exploding for tons of damage on impact and leaving Fire field for completing the whole cast would’ve been awesome. Tornado is very meh.

Earth was okay, but animations are not really that smooth.

I like concepts of Warhorn in Air and Water. Rest is rather not interesting.

Shouts apart from healing one are boring and not innovative, although I admire the work put in expanding fire rings, looks cool.

I don´t see ele spoiling elites. Elite shall offer something realy new to the class, that can be considerd as an option. I think even with current tempest concept this can be done.

Wolfric.9380:

I don´t see ele spoiling elites. Elite shall offer something realy new to the class, that can be considerd as an option. I think even with current tempest concept this can be done.

The amount of skills ele have can cause OP issues too much easily, rendering a future (or the current) elite specs not funny, or useful compared to base class.

On a related note, I’ve been thinking about overloads. What if they were insta-cast with a non-offensive (or delayed) effect? Then it could prove more worthwhile instead of a helpless channeling thing you must pray the Lord not to be interrupted.

The essence of elementalists is to attunement swap according to the situation, and chain combo, to achieve what other classes achieve with one weapon skill (I may be exagerating but you get the idea). Therefore Tempest overload is counter-productive and counter-intuitive for those who’ve been playing ele for years.

As for me, it convinced me that i’m better off without it.

seems like its viable as WvW party roaming spec with your aura share/boon share synergy….

Outside of that, its useless

I’ll try tempest for a bit, but as it stands now I’m definitely not going to use it. I’m a mostly PVE Ele.

I like the lava font + fire tempest combo. It does more damage than just auto attacking. Shock and Aftershock is also a really good skill. That wide area magnetic aura will definitely save lives. The advantages end there.

Normally when I run ele I use Fire/Air/Arcane. Sometimes I’ll swap to Water or Earth for niche uses, but the Arcane line is the strongest third line in PVE. Damage, defense, utility, and group support all in one. The tempest traits, however, are pretty bad. Not quite thief acrobatics bad, but they are arguably the worst traits the ele has to offer. Highly focused, little to no class synergy, no damage buffs, and the utilities provided exist mostly to compensate for PVP weaknesses inherent to the tempest design philosophy.

The warhorn is meh. Sand Squall and Dust Storm are good. Squall would exist mostly to extend quickness, and Dust Storm is a blind field. I guess with Shock and Aftershock, swirling winds wouldn’t be as needed, but I’ll still be missing out on the blast finishers and personal protection that focus provides.

Currently, it isn’t looking good for the PVE tempest.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Currently, it isn’t looking good for the PVE tempest.

PvE enemies generally knock you down or interrupt you every 2-3 seconds. That makes Overloads useless even in the context of fighting a single npc, you are just going to get interrupted while channeling.

In my opinion Tempest has these issues:
1- Lack of mobility: besides super speed warhorn and shouts have no leap, no evade, no teleport and you cannot dodge while overloading.
2- Lack of support: Boon sharing and auras isn’t enough to turn a class into a support class
3- Lack of cc on warhorn
4- Lack of stability for a “Melee” elite profession
5- Lack of any type of synergy with other weapons than dagger (no range)
6a- Trait line that is not as good as the ones it will replace: will result in losing damage modifiers and important defensive traits
6b- Tempest has ZERO offensive traits
7- Shouts overlapping aura share trait
8- Terrible damage for melee range
9- Useless Rebound elite
10- Slower skill animation than current offhand (animations are behind the character if you move forward)
11- Excessive recharge on shouts and warhorn skills
12- Lack of new boons or new conditions
13- not truly viable for condition builds
14- Buggy skills (lightning orb only works vertically)

And this is beside the overloads attunement camping problems… So there is A LOT of work to do to make this viable.

Unless most of these are fixed I’m not sure I even want to try it ever again.

Xillllix.3485:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Currently, it isn’t looking good for the PVE tempest.

PvE enemies generally knock you down or interrupt you every 2-3 seconds. That makes Overloads useless even in the context of fighting a single npc, you are just going to get interrupted while channeling.

I never really noticed this in my earlier level-ups, but I am leveling up a necro and couldn’t help but notice that every time I entered shroud, I got knocked down or interrupted. Was it always like this? I think 2-3 years ago leveling up didn’t have so much interrupt on you Either way, I agree that this will be unusable in its current form. At least in organized PvP you can hopefully count on someone giving you stability.

I actually enjoyed the tempest in tpvp, I was able to construct a good support build with it. While my tempest didn’t have the 1v1 potential of my d/d ele, it excelled in team fights and support. the constant healing and aura sharing is pretty OP.

Xillllix.3485:

It convinced me that its the worse of the elite professions.

This.

EsarioTwo.9251:

Xillllix.3485:

It convinced me that its the worse of the elite professions.

This.

Just gonna leave this here, while we are at it:

http://imgur.com/a/Ee6t8#10

I mean, can’t they look at the numbers and see that nobody ever casts churning earth and few people ever use ether renewal (both long channels, although ER has seen use at times b/c of the high healing potential) because of their cast times? Overloads are like these skills, but with ADDITIONAL penalties for using and little payoff for completing.

Overloads, as a concept, just don’t work. If they keep buffing them to be worth the cost of using, they will have to make them:
Fire: Outputs pulsing 3 stacks of burns and 10stacks of might for 25s
Air: 1-shots an enemy at the end
Water: full-heal
Earth: Moving sandstorm (glyph of storms in earth)

Obviously, those are all OPAF, but that is because the cost to use an overload is sky-high. Bring the cost down significantly so they don’t NEED to be OP to be balanced.

BlackBeard.2873:

EsarioTwo.9251:

Xillllix.3485:

It convinced me that its the worse of the elite professions.

This.

Just gonna leave this here, while we are at it:

http://imgur.com/a/Ee6t8#10

I mean, can’t they look at the numbers and see that nobody ever casts churning earth and few people ever use ether renewal (both long channels, although ER has seen use at times b/c of the high healing potential) because of their cast times? Overloads are like these skills, but with ADDITIONAL penalties for using and little payoff for completing.

Overloads, as a concept, just don’t work. If they keep buffing them to be worth the cost of using, they will have to make them:
Fire: Outputs pulsing 3 stacks of burns and 10stacks of might for 25s
Air: 1-shots an enemy at the end
Water: full-heal
Earth: Moving sandstorm (glyph of storms in earth)

Obviously, those are all OPAF, but that is because the cost to use an overload is sky-high. Bring the cost down significantly so they don’t NEED to be OP to be balanced.

The first thing that I noticed in that album is that pulmonary impact doesn’t work with the weakening strikes trait

But seriously, this looks quite a bit better than I expected for thief, even though they gutted acrobatics for it, which may need re-purposing now or some sort of buff.

As for overloads, I believe that Karl is having a very difficult time balancing them. I mean, they should be incredibly OP because of their astronomical cost, but that is not very good design. However, if they become easier to cast and have less cost, they might just become part of the standard elementalist rotation which is already powerful enough. The design intent was very likely to disrupt the rotation of the elementalist and offer a new way to play. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to have worked out at all.

What if overloads were quick spells that enabled you to tap into an attunement from a different attunement? For example, I could have a build that camps fire and I could use a water overload while in fire attunement for some healing and cleansing. Using the overload would enable me to remain in fire but would put my water attunement on cooldown.
There are of course problems with this such as what hotkeys are these overloads bound to by default. In addition, most ele auto-attacks are very weak, though that could perhaps be solved with proper traits. I am also pretty sure that there are other issues that I haven’t thought about as well, but I just came up with it and haven’t spent any time thinking about the specifics.

Valento.9852:

So, did the overloads mechanics convince you to make a tempest? Are you going to roll one, and effectively use the elite while playing dungeons, fractals, spvp, wvw? How often do you see yourself playing with tempest? Do you feel useful when you spec into tempest trait line? How do you see yourself post-HoT?

No, no, never, no, same as now.

i guess the only skill that i would use would be the overloading water one , and only if im about to die, because better be alive with 20sec cd then dead and no cd…., it heals for 4k? , still kitten but maybe it could save your kitten

overall i will not use the elite spec as it is now, neither the warhorn, and cantrips are still better in pvp then the shouts , gg anet

Ganathar.4956:

BlackBeard.2873:

EsarioTwo.9251:

Xillllix.3485:

It convinced me that its the worse of the elite professions.

This.

Just gonna leave this here, while we are at it:

http://imgur.com/a/Ee6t8#10

I mean, can’t they look at the numbers and see that nobody ever casts churning earth and few people ever use ether renewal (both long channels, although ER has seen use at times b/c of the high healing potential) because of their cast times? Overloads are like these skills, but with ADDITIONAL penalties for using and little payoff for completing.

Overloads, as a concept, just don’t work. If they keep buffing them to be worth the cost of using, they will have to make them:
Fire: Outputs pulsing 3 stacks of burns and 10stacks of might for 25s
Air: 1-shots an enemy at the end
Water: full-heal
Earth: Moving sandstorm (glyph of storms in earth)

Obviously, those are all OPAF, but that is because the cost to use an overload is sky-high. Bring the cost down significantly so they don’t NEED to be OP to be balanced.

The first thing that I noticed in that album is that pulmonary impact doesn’t work with the weakening strikes trait

But seriously, this looks quite a bit better than I expected for thief, even though they gutted acrobatics for it, which may need re-purposing now or some sort of buff.

As for overloads, I believe that Karl is having a very difficult time balancing them. I mean, they should be incredibly OP because of their astronomical cost, but that is not very good design. However, if they become easier to cast and have less cost, they might just become part of the standard elementalist rotation which is already powerful enough. The design intent was very likely to disrupt the rotation of the elementalist and offer a new way to play. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to have worked out at all.

What if overloads were quick spells that enabled you to tap into an attunement from a different attunement? For example, I could have a build that camps fire and I could use a water overload while in fire attunement for some healing and cleansing. Using the overload would enable me to remain in fire but would put my water attunement on cooldown.
There are of course problems with this such as what hotkeys are these overloads bound to by default. In addition, most ele auto-attacks are very weak, though that could perhaps be solved with proper traits. I am also pretty sure that there are other issues that I haven’t thought about as well, but I just came up with it and haven’t spent any time thinking about the specifics.

5 seconds overload cannot work in a fast pace game like this when you get interrupted on half your normal skills and need mobility on a squishy class to stay alive. Looking at the new stuff for thief and warrior: tempest bites the dust, it doesn’t even begin to compare. Who needs boon share support when you can beat people into a pulp?

Thieves got weapon swap on top of that: They can backstab you for 9k, switch to staff, immob you, daze and finish you down instantly. I’m not jealous , I’ll just play thief instead of tempest.

And what you said about overloads is completely true, logically they should tap into a different attunement. Huge conceptual flaws in the current design.

What I’m afraid the most is that since they’ve come up with the mechanics, they may not change them, and rather let tempest useless to fall into oblivion and in the future they will make a better elite spec. The problem, though, is that we’ve been playing for so long with core eles without changing a lot the main builds for each game mode (PvE, PvP, WvW).

Tempests won’t provide a fresh air (no pun intended). It just makes us sad, jealous about other elite specs as those look much more fun, synergic, and MAINLY useful.

As already stated several times: in a fast-paced game like GW2, we can’t afford becoming channeling dummies. Interrupts come in huge amounts. Other elite specs get insta-cast skills, effects, and much shorter cooldowns. I understand that CASTING is a core stuff for eles, but you’re forcing us to:

• a) Stay melee (just look at the PBAoE nature of overloads)
• b) Channel the effect, while in melee! The after-cast effect don’t justify becoming a channeling dummy! 80% of the overall mechanics takes place during the channeling phase, which btw is 4-5 SECONDS (most of them). Not even a single stack of stability (though many classes can screw you even with 5 stacks of stability).

Why don’t you allow us to insta-cast an overload for a periodic effect around the ele, and landing a 3sec cooldown on attunements as a kind of trade-off? We don’t want to become channeling dummies… it feels “locked”. It doesn’t feel fun. It doesn’t feel action. It doesn’t feel “free” (remembering an wartower.de video from first months of GW2).

What they have to do is to get rid of the 5s cd of overload attunement. I mean, the 20s recharge is enough of a punishement, no need to make us being stuck in one attunement just cause we want to overload it.

Im not saying tempest isnt viable… I can use shouts and warhorn in some of my builds. But overloads? Nah, never.

Krysard.1364:

What they have to do is to get rid of the 5s cd of overload attunement. I mean, the 20s recharge is enough of a punishement, no need to make us being stuck in one attunement just cause we want to overload it.

Im not saying tempest isnt viable… I can use shouts and warhorn in some of my builds. But overloads? Nah, never.

Now, just tell me: 5-second channeling, while in melee, without stability? Who summed up these combat properties as a good mechanics? Like all the mobs/players in pvp will say: oh hai, we not interrupt you, just channel and deal monster damage on us, we won’t break your casting. tehee

It’s not even as if we could channel FAR from the mob. The damage takes place in a PBAoE fashion, i.e., around the tempest……….

No. Just, no.

I have to say, Tempest is better than dragonhunter

If they give tempest overloads fields that relate to the atument and standardizes all the cast times say 3 sec or 4 and maybe gave some type of brak bar to all overloads then yes. Though i must say even with out all of this you can make a realty good d/d aura support tempest that may see some play in wvw.

Tempest overloads will only be worth it when the channel happens in the background (can still be interrupted/CC’d) but the elementalist is able to do other actions.

Moreover, nobody will use fire or air overloads, ever. What are you gonna do, sit in water/earth and do 300-500 damage autoattacks?

They need to buff water and earth autoattacks for ele, and they need to buff all scepter autoattacks. Ele has no sustained damage whatsoever in water or earth since the autoattacks are so weak.

Zenith.7301:

Tempest overloads will only be worth it when the channel happens in the background (can still be interrupted/CC’d) but the elementalist is able to do other actions.

Moreover, nobody will use fire or air overloads, ever. What are you gonna do, sit in water/earth and do 300-500 damage autoattacks?

They need to buff water and earth autoattacks for ele, and they need to buff all scepter autoattacks. Ele has no sustained damage whatsoever in water or earth since the autoattacks are so weak.

I really like that idea. Overloads could absorb CC’s but then would enter full recharge, meanwhile you could cast your skills normally. For it to be actively useful you’d have to play smart in melee, but AT LEAST you wouldn’t be locked DPS-wise because of your elite spec mechanics. The way it is now, no matter how much damage they add, it’s too punishing and counter-combat due to its action nature.

About water/earth: these attunements aren’t supposed to deal huge damage, maybe except for earth, but even so it would deals damage over time (bleeding).

I have absolutely no plans on giving up my staff or taking tempest.

There just is no reason.

The overloads might work if it wasn’t a channeled skill, but rather like a buff like aura that performed the pulses and then created an effect when expired. Even so, the only one that is really viable is fire, because it’s the only attunement you end up camping for an extended period of time. Sitting in Air, Water or Earth for 5 seconds is about 4 seconds of being useless just to get the overload.

I thought it might be cool to try and do a celestial staff bunker build that focuses on shouts and auras with like a Tempest/Earth/Air setup, but you lose so much to try and make that work.

The warhorn is kind of neat, but it doesnt bring much to the table in terms of fields and finishers, so I feel you lose synergy with any main hand weapon by taking it over dagger or focus. The boon share elements might be it’s redeeming quality.

Yes they convince me.
They provide melee-like power to scepter and staff, allowing you a playstyle where you switch range range back and forth (more than scepter/dagger does), and a less vulnerable way to do big AoE compared to meteor shower or churning earth.
Sure, they’re a waste if you play dagger, but I don’t really.

Zenith.7301:

Moreover, nobody will use fire or air overloads, ever. What are you gonna do, sit in water/earth and do 300-500 damage autoattacks?

They need to buff water and earth autoattacks for ele, and they need to buff all scepter autoattacks. Ele has no sustained damage whatsoever in water or earth since the autoattacks are so weak.

You’re not forced to swap attunement after overloading (though swiching back and forht between fire and air helps). I wish the warhorn trait was something like “While you have a warhorn equipped, your autoattacks deal more damage/have longer range/cause longer-lasting conditions/inflict bleeding”. Dagger on the other hand needs nerfs at this state of balance, not buffs.

MadRabbit.3179:

I have absolutely no plans on giving up my staff or taking tempest.

There just is no reason.

The overloads might work if it wasn’t a channeled skill, but rather like a buff like aura that performed the pulses and then created an effect when expired. Even so, the only one that is really viable is fire, because it’s the only attunement you end up camping for an extended period of time. Sitting in Air, Water or Earth for 5 seconds is about 4 seconds of being useless just to get the overload.

I thought it might be cool to try and do a celestial staff bunker build that focuses on shouts and auras with like a Tempest/Earth/Air setup, but you lose so much to try and make that work.

The warhorn is kind of neat, but it doesnt bring much to the table in terms of fields and finishers, so I feel you lose synergy with any main hand weapon by taking it over dagger or focus. The boon share elements might be it’s redeeming quality.

Boon share is the only reason to take warhorn over dagger. With warhorn you can keep 100% party protection, pretty nice, but thats all

Wait. Are people mistaking our complaint about overloads with actual dagger skills damage coefficients? Nobody is asking the devs to increase damage to daggers! If the balancing behind overloads to make them more worth it requires D/D to be severely nerfed, so be it.

I’m really fed up with constant excuse being D/D + sPvP every single time. What’s next? Lava Font, then Ice Bow? Increase cooldowns in major control skills? Maybe Mist Form should give eles an arcane shield instead? Decrease healing coefficients on Geyser? Remove Elemental Attunement from the game? -_- /endrant

Adrian Guardian.9480:

Yes they convince me.
They provide melee-like power to scepter and staff, allowing you a playstyle where you switch range range back and forth (more than scepter/dagger does), and a less vulnerable way to do big AoE compared to meteor shower or churning earth.
Sure, they’re a waste if you play dagger, but I don’t really.

Zenith.7301:

Moreover, nobody will use fire or air overloads, ever. What are you gonna do, sit in water/earth and do 300-500 damage autoattacks?

They need to buff water and earth autoattacks for ele, and they need to buff all scepter autoattacks. Ele has no sustained damage whatsoever in water or earth since the autoattacks are so weak.

You’re not forced to swap attunement after overloading (though swiching back and forht between fire and air helps). I wish the warhorn trait was something like “While you have a warhorn equipped, your autoattacks deal more damage/have longer range/cause longer-lasting conditions/inflict bleeding”. Dagger on the other hand needs nerfs at this state of balance, not buffs.

I’m not forced to but I’ll have to. Not every PvE encounter just allows me to sit in fire spamming fireball and lava font until a mob is dead.

And the fact is, tempest will lock you out of doing DPS for a really long time.

It just isn’t acceptable in PvE. This goes as well for D/F PvE builds. Locking you out of air means your DPS plummets completely.

Put another way, they’d have to buff overloads by such a high degree to overcome the DPS loss of not using firebal+lava font or lightning whip.

I know people said water and earth are not supposed to do damage, but I don’t buy that. You are making a ghetto out of these attunements, where you go into them for their niche utility skills and leaving them as soon as possible to go and sit in fire/air again most of the time.

Azure.8670:

I have to say, Tempest is better than dragonhunter

Not after the buffs the dragon hunter just got.

Zenith.7301:

And the fact is, tempest will lock you out of doing DPS for a really long time.

It just isn’t acceptable in PvE. This goes as well for D/F PvE builds. Locking you out of air means your DPS plummets completely.

Put another way, they’d have to buff overloads by such a high degree to overcome the DPS loss of not using firebal+lava font or lightning whip.

I say that’s what they ought to do: buff overloads (numerically) until they overcome the DPS loss of being out of your weapon’s stronget attunement for longer. It’s a good thing the traits lack damage modifiers and other strong things, that leaves room for buffing overloads to the point that you’d always use them if you take the tempest trait line.

Valento.9852:

Wait. Are people mistaking our complaint about overloads with actual dagger skills damage coefficients? Nobody is asking the devs to increase damage to daggers! If the balancing behind overloads to make them more worth it requires D/D to be severely nerfed, so be it.

Lots of truth to this. The overload complainers mention dagger (D/D or D/W) a lot, as if its skills are so strong that they can’t afford to take the time to overload with current balance.

Azure.8670:

I have to say, Tempest is better than dragonhunter

The tempest’s mechanic may have a biger impact on playstyle than those new virtues, but longbow and traps expand the Guardian class way better than warhorn and shouts do for ele.

Adrian Guardian.9480:

Zenith.7301:

And the fact is, tempest will lock you out of doing DPS for a really long time.

It just isn’t acceptable in PvE. This goes as well for D/F PvE builds. Locking you out of air means your DPS plummets completely.

Put another way, they’d have to buff overloads by such a high degree to overcome the DPS loss of not using firebal+lava font or lightning whip.

I say that’s what they ought to do: buff overloads (numerically) until they overcome the DPS loss of being out of your weapon’s stronget attunement for longer. It’s a good thing the traits lack damage modifiers and other strong things, that leaves room for buffing overloads to the point that you’d always use them if you take the tempest trait line.

Valento.9852:

Wait. Are people mistaking our complaint about overloads with actual dagger skills damage coefficients? Nobody is asking the devs to increase damage to daggers! If the balancing behind overloads to make them more worth it requires D/D to be severely nerfed, so be it.

Lots of truth to this. The overload complainers mention dagger (D/D or D/W) a lot, as if its skills are so strong that they can’t afford to take the time to overload with current balance.

Azure.8670:

I have to say, Tempest is better than dragonhunter

The tempest’s mechanic may have a biger impact on playstyle than those new virtues, but longbow and traps expand the Guardian class way better than warhorn and shouts do for ele.

The amount of buffing to a single skill to overcome 20 seconds of fireball+lava font or lightning whip DPS would be so massive, the sea of tears from the pvp people would submerge the entire world.

Unfortunately they don’t split PvE/PvP balance, so another solution is warranted until they do.

even 5s fireballing is massiv. Its AOE and can kill a target alone. This is six shots for up to 3k on crit each. The crit chance would be 70-80% so at least 4 full hits. If not dodged this is about 15k damage. So and what will hapen is fire overload bursts for 15k?

IMO Overloads should focus on CC, or periodic buffs, maybe some harmful tempest-specific damaging PBAoE buffs or auras, like the Pulmonary stuff thieves are getting with Daredevil spec. There is just so much potential if they rework actual overloads’ execution…

Wolfric.9380:

So and what will hapen is fire overload bursts for 15k?

If you can call kitten channel a burst…

The overload effect it self not so much but the other effects you can get when overloading or after you overload yes. So auras and -100% movement condition duration. Now only if they would add a bit more to the overload it self i love to see fields or more finishers.

Jski.6180:

The overload effect it self not so much but the other effects you can get when overloading or after you overload yes. So auras and -100% movement condition duration. Now only if they would add a bit more to the overload it self i love to see fields or more finishers.

But overloads are the first issue with tempests. Shortly after we got a bunch of useless/non-synergic/non-worthy traits. Other elite specs get a lot of yummy and hard-to-choose traits, and we get a lot of useless traits and we have to strive for the least worse among them all.

Wolfric.9380:

So and what will hapen is fire overload bursts for 15k?

It’s still going to be 4 times longer to channel than a Mesmer shattering for 14k and 3 times longer than a 12k killshot.

Wolfric.9380:

even 5s fireballing is massiv. Its AOE and can kill a target alone. This is six shots for up to 3k on crit each. The crit chance would be 70-80% so at least 4 full hits. If not dodged this is about 15k damage. So and what will hapen is fire overload bursts for 15k?

nothing because only a fool would just stand and stare at the ele while it channels for 5 seconds…. you deserve to be hit for 15k if you aren’t skilled enough to figure what to do with an ele thats channeling for 5 whole seconds…