Guild Wars 2

Hey everyone, so im a very tanky necro player who usually kills who I fight (unless im severely outnumbered) I last a long time and my dots usually eat through whoever Im fighting. I was running around in WvW and came across this ele that I figured would go the same way. Not sure what it was about him but I never saw him drop below 95% health. I have ZERO idea how but it was pretty funny and almost embarrassing to watch. Now, im not one to yell for nerfs or anything but I would however like to know what it was that I was fighting and how do I beat it.

Ele’s have really high sustained self heals. The best way to beat them is to burst them, because in a game of attrition, the ele’s have the advantage. A tanky necro using conditions is simply not going to have the burst required to kill an ele who knows what they’re doing. Guardians often suffer the same issues. Your best bet would be to wait until after they come out of Water attunement and lay into them as hard as possible.

Plus D/D is simply really strong right now.

Thats disappointing but everyone needs a hard counter right lol

Zalavaaris.5329:

Hey everyone, so im a very tanky necro player who usually kills who I fight (unless im severely outnumbered) I last a long time and my dots usually eat through whoever Im fighting. I was running around in WvW and came across this ele that I figured would go the same way. Not sure what it was about him but I never saw him drop below 95% health. I have ZERO idea how but it was pretty funny and almost embarrassing to watch. Now, im not one to yell for nerfs or anything but I would however like to know what it was that I was fighting and how do I beat it.

It is quite possible that this elementalist was running Diamond skin which makes them immune to conditions when above 90% health. This type of elementalist normally also pairs this with water so they can have a plethora of heals to keep themselves above 90% so you were hard countered most likely. Were the conditions doing any damage to them? Or not really? That’s the best way to know if they’re running that build. Best bet is to attempt to lower them below 90% and then bombard them with the conditions before they can get above 90%.

Yea they werent doing much at all, sadly every bit of damage that wasnt conditions is soooo low due to my gear that I couldnt get him even below 95%. I basically just gave them a free kill

EDIT: in reality its my fault, instead of running some physical damage gear im all in with toughness, vitality, and condi damage. My own toughness killed me! nooooo lol

So yea, most likely he was running Diamond skin which just nullifies your conditions unless you can keep them below 90% health. It’s a hard counter to all condition builds. If you have no power attacks to do enough damage, then yea, you’re up a creek with no paddle.

NERF NERF NERF!!!! but seriously guys, thanks for the info, I’ll just use all that great necro escape next time I come across one lol

Yep that trait is pretty BS ,it used to be crap to take it cause you lost so many important stuff.But now with 3 lines the value of the trait skyrocketed like a lot of other ele traits in less used lines pre patch.
Quite frankly i d be fine if they redesigned in a way.Some more active cond clear that is good all around and not just a hard counter would be the best.
Funny thing is that while you cant rely on just diamond skin for protection against condies (which forces you to water) when you pair it with water it simply becomes ridiculous.

Yea I’m not too bothered about it lol I fear bombed 4 people off a cliff in sky hammer today so I’m in a pretty good mood lol

Well who is the real hardcounter ? The class that can unload tons of condition AND convert 2boons into condi at the same time ? or the one that can nullify condi with a hard requirement ?

Diamond skin is kinda broken due to the hardcounter fact, but signet build is even worse …
Both need to be addressed

Eles are the adaptive class! They require planing and skill in play, but then shine. I look at the Meta, adapt and beat it. Thats like a rock/siscor/paper play. I will be slaughtert buy a power build with condi cleanse and it is ridiculous hard to kill a necro or mesmer, but i beat zerkers (especially rangers/thiefs/engineers) into the dust, just by my build. And now guess who complanis ….

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression, I wasn’t coming here to complain just to get advice. Thanks everyone

Zalavaaris.5329:

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression, I wasn’t coming here to complain just to get advice. Thanks everyone

First off, thank you for not just yelling for nerfs

Playing both an ele and a necro myself, here is a few tips from the top of my head:

Use something like scepter AA as your opener. If no conditions are applied, he is using Diamond Skin (previous posts explained this trait). This means you will have to somehow get him below 90%, which isn’t easy as a tou/vit/con necro. Look through your skills and see which are best at this (assuming you run Scepter and staff, Shroud skills are probably the best for this).

Strip his boons. This is always important vs D/D ele, but especially vs those with Diamond Skin, since protection and regeneration makes it hard for you to get him below 90%.

Most D/D ele use Air > Fire > Earth > Water > repeat. Water will heal and cleanse conditions, so try to deal enough damage in between his water to not allow his health to go above 90% again. Also save your strong conditions for after water so they will stay for longer before he get’s to cleanse them again (beware; most D/D got great cleanse on utility too)

As previous posts says, it is a hardcounter to your build, but hey, nothing is impossible Keep rocking your necromancer!

Rezok.2709:

Strip his boons. This is always important vs D/D ele, but especially vs those with Diamond Skin, since protection and regeneration makes it hard for you to get him below 90%.

Try to boon strip right when he enter earth so you get rid off prot

Rezok.2709:

Most D/D ele use Air > Fire > Earth > Water > repeat.

Nope.
Air, Fire, WATER, Earth (for the additionnal blast on W3). At least on the few first rotations (this might get broken by an emergency cleanse/heal requirement)

This is reason why you never should fight alone in Gw2. Let you ranger friend shoot some rapid fire first and then condi burst him down. Drop some rams over him and spam /laugh because he was lamer.

Mattmatt.4962:

Rezok.2709:

Most D/D ele use Air > Fire > Earth > Water > repeat.

Nope.
Air, Fire, WATER, Earth (for the additionnal blast on W3). At least on the few first rotations (this might get broken by an emergency cleanse/heal requirement)

Actually it is Air, fire, Earth, Water. You can still get the extra water 3 blast off if you do the rotation correctly.

Phataram had a good video on it; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAtDKypiS5M

Zalavaaris.5329:

Yea they werent doing much at all, sadly every bit of damage that wasnt conditions is soooo low due to my gear that I couldnt get him even below 95%. I basically just gave them a free kill

EDIT: in reality its my fault, instead of running some physical damage gear im all in with toughness, vitality, and condi damage. My own toughness killed me! nooooo lol

We need more people like you. You came here in frustration, but not anger. You left realizing that you lost due to a fair counter of your own build and that’s ok with you.

My respect, man.

MightyMicah.7451:

Zalavaaris.5329:

Yea they werent doing much at all, sadly every bit of damage that wasnt conditions is soooo low due to my gear that I couldnt get him even below 95%. I basically just gave them a free kill

EDIT: in reality its my fault, instead of running some physical damage gear im all in with toughness, vitality, and condi damage. My own toughness killed me! nooooo lol

We need more people like you. You came here in frustration, but not anger. You left realizing that you lost due to a fair counter of your own build and that’s ok with you.

My respect, man.

Haha thanks I appreciate that. I mean, if you think about it, rock gets countered by paper but cant be too mad because he wrecks scissors face all day. lol And I also learned what I need to from this thread. Put dots up first and if they are immune scepter auto until below 90% then go to town.

Diamond skin eles hard counter condi builds, I was fooling around with my guard friend in our custom arena and he couldnt drop me below 90% health until he was practically dead no matter how hard he tried with his incineration build.

kudos to you OP
wish we had more ppl asking for suggestions rather than asking for nerfs.
obv some things DO need nerf, ele isnt one of them—
ele could have very well been using cleansing sigils or w/e diamond skin- u name it.

id love a condi necro build though & tips on rotation/so forth if you have it

If you are on T2 and like to roam, it could have been me…

My new ele build since patch has so far not lost a 1v1 against any class, it’s a complete cheese build…

The easiest classes to kill are: Engies, necros, thieves, guards, wars, mesmers.
Rangers still f me up from 2k range away and ele’s running similar builds is just a pure stalemate, no one goes below 90% health.

Try using a shaman/apoth perplex with doom and smoldering sigils, fire/water/earth cantrip build with passive cleansing fire + utility version – Your burst lies in the insta 13-15 stacks of burn mixed in with confusion and poison… This build is only good until they nerf burn into the ground tho. Ring of Fire alone is 6 stacks of burn on cast and after they chase you over the circle.

Nah im on t3 I THINK, its henge of denravi but yea, I got my kitten handed to me haha

Raif.9507:

Zalavaaris.5329:

Hey everyone, so im a very tanky necro player who usually kills who I fight (unless im severely outnumbered) I last a long time and my dots usually eat through whoever Im fighting. I was running around in WvW and came across this ele that I figured would go the same way. Not sure what it was about him but I never saw him drop below 95% health. I have ZERO idea how but it was pretty funny and almost embarrassing to watch. Now, im not one to yell for nerfs or anything but I would however like to know what it was that I was fighting and how do I beat it.

It is quite possible that this elementalist was running Diamond skin which makes them immune to conditions when above 90% health. This type of elementalist normally also pairs this with water so they can have a plethora of heals to keep themselves above 90% so you were hard countered most likely. Were the conditions doing any damage to them? Or not really? That’s the best way to know if they’re running that build. Best bet is to attempt to lower them below 90% and then bombard them with the conditions before they can get above 90%.

You beat me to posting this. I run diamond skin in PvP because all I ever run into is condi necros, condi engis, and condi (confusion) mesmers. Occasionally I’ll meet a burst damage player who forces me to actually switch to water attunement and play seriously, but 8/10 players have no gear that gives a power boost at all, and they deserve to be hard countered. I only ever get hit with conditions when I get focused by 3 condition builds who can do enough combined damage to bring my health below threshold. Or when some ridiculous power ranger #2’s me whilst I’m fighting a necro.

Seriously, kitten this condition meta. I remember when I didn’t have to spec my guardian entirely towards condition removal, and when my warrior’s naturally high health pool actually gave him the margin necessary to KO/stomp someone. Now the only way I can play my guardian is as an altruistic healing bunker with practically zero DPS dropping healing symbols on nodes to keep my party up. Sword? What’s that?* And my warrior using runes other than Superior Melandru? Ha! kitten that.

Seriously, I don’t see any reason why every ele shouldn’t be running Diamond Skin right now. I was torn for a long time between 00666 diamond skin and 06066 fresh air, but eventually I decided that I brought more to the team holding nodes with my increased survivability than I did through burst damage. Maybe I just get teams who don’t work together, and it’s my own poor luck, but until I find that my allies bring some synergy to the team I’m better off ignoring conditions. And hopefully it picks up and forces other classes to embrace more diversity.

Ah, kitten, who am I kidding? ANet will just nerf Diamond Skin so that it’s only effective at 95% health and above. Then another patch that makes it 99%.

• I absolutely refuse to stoop to the level of incineration guardian. What a bullkitten concept that is.

Yes i do play an ele as d/d or d/f

and its so bloody powerful i can even 1vsX in wvw or pvp absolutely facerolling.

esp blinding ashes on fire trait is ridiculously powerful.

also the earth trait is crazy too.

As a necro you cannot go full condition. It lacks burst and relies far too much on stacking bleeds.

Best counter to elementalists I have seen as a necro is the new signet traits with http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQBlAKkBVg~
For utility skills use consume conditions, plague signet, signet of the locust, spectral armor and lich form.
A mix of rampager and celestial works quite well with this.
For sigils use fire & Air
For weapons use staff & either axe/dagger or scepter/dagger.

The idea is to do good damage with added condi pressure. Along with sending any conditions you get back to the enemy as well as corrupting their boons.

I don´t feel most things people complain. But i guess thats because i am an all around build, that can swallow a zerk burst and cleanse all condis fast plus have some power in my rabid gear. I have weaknesses like power builds with good condi cleanse and bunker that i can´t bring down fast buts thats fine, i usually get the “Meta” with a non meta build :-). And as soon as you beat the meta people start to cry OP not thinking that you might have build just for that.

Honestly I wreck everything else, i’m fine with one build from one class hard countering me. It’s not like when you die you lose everything lol well…nyou lose nothing other than a bit of delusional Internet pride lol but I have none so… I’ll just stick with it and die with honor haha

Diamond Skin hard counters condi necro. I’m surprised you didn’t realize he was using it at first. Most condi users I know don’t respect anybody using Diamond Skin 1v1 because it makes the fight a total faceroll.

Zalavaaris.5329:

Hey everyone, so im a very tanky necro player who usually kills who I fight (unless im severely outnumbered) I last a long time and my dots usually eat through whoever Im fighting. I was running around in WvW and came across this ele that I figured would go the same way. Not sure what it was about him but I never saw him drop below 95% health. I have ZERO idea how but it was pretty funny and almost embarrassing to watch. Now, im not one to yell for nerfs or anything but I would however like to know what it was that I was fighting and how do I beat it.

same happened to me, but i was running a glass condi build. I tried to cap a point defended by an elementalist and no matter what, i could never build enough bleeds to outdamage his regeneration.

if i could build enough bleed stacks i would have covered them with signet of spite, but the elementalist kept cleansing before there was anything worth covering.

Then i looked at the elementalist traits:

burning fire: automatically cures 3 conditions.
stop drop and roll: cure chilling after dodging
cleansing wave: removes a condition when attuning to water
cleansing water: removes a condition when granting regeneration
water dagger 5: cures a condition

Basically, you have a condi immune foe. When facing one like that call for help (you are a tank, you should call for help anyway). He shouldn’t be able to kill you either unless the battle drags too long, which it shouldn’t as either of you should receive help.

Cecilia.5179:

Diamond Skin hard counters condi necro. I’m surprised you didn’t realize he was using it at first. Most condi users I know don’t respect anybody using Diamond Skin 1v1 because it makes the fight a total faceroll.

I didnt know it existed, im not a player that keeps tracks of classes I dont play because honestly, im just now starting to try my hand at pvp.

Mattmatt.4962:

Nope.
Air, Fire, WATER, Earth (for the additionnal blast on W3). At least on the few first rotations (this might get broken by an emergency cleanse/heal requirement)

No, it is Air, Fire, Earth, Water you can get to earth, use #3 and #4 and still make it to water and use #3. Or use Earth Evasive Arcana for a blast finisher instead. This also allows you to take more damage before you hit water, so you won’t overheal yourself (through with current damage I guess that won’t be a problem).
And even if you can’t make it through both earth and water in the fire field, earth is superior since it allows 2 blast finishers and 1 fire aura (#3, #4 and Evasive Arcana).

Not really superior since #4earth is on 45sec cd (untraited) and EarthEA cost a lot with nerfed vigor.
And you can do your combo only if the ennemy is close to you when using the #3 leap otherwise the travel time is too long and you can’t do a full combo if you dont finish by the leap.

Mattmatt.4962:

Not really superior since #4earth is on 45sec cd (untraited) and EarthEA cost a lot with nerfed vigor.
And you can do your combo only if the ennemy is close to you when using the #3 leap otherwise the travel time is too long and you can’t do a full combo if you dont finish by the leap.

I do agree that it depends on the situation if you want to use earth #4, but even without that it’s still superior to use earth before water. As for the earth #3, I’ve never had much trouble using it and still have time for water #3, so I guess that’s a matter of skills with position.

Water:
#3 blast on 15 second cooldown

Earth:
Evasive Arcana blast on 10 second cooldown
#3 aura on 12 second cooldown
#4 blast on 45 second cooldown

Earth Evasive Arcana alone makes earth just as good a choice as water – but with potentially another blast and a fire aura. And if you are good you can still do a Ring of Fire > Earth #4, Earth #3 > Water #3 (through this depends on the situation you are in).

It’s also better to use earth first since it gives you protection to migrate enemy burst faster, since burst often will come near the start of a fight.
Another thing is, since you take longer to get into water in the start of a fight you will most likely take more damage before you enter water, allowing you to use water #5 without overhealing to get it on cooldown. The faster that skill is on cooldown, the more times you get to use it in a fight, meaning more healing in the fight.

There is a reason why almost every good elementalist uses Air – Fire – Earth – Water as their main rotation, and only break it for emergencies like in need of water healing. This have been the standard for a long time, and it still is with this patch.

MidoriMarch.8067:

Yes i do play an ele as d/d or d/f

and its so bloody powerful i can even 1vsX in wvw or pvp absolutely facerolling.

against new players , probably , d/d – d/f ele is a great noobs stomper.
He is tanky enough and has enough dmg to mow through them.

If you are 1vsXing competent players playing decent builds you are not going to survive even 2 players.
Not with the kind of dmg people run around these days.
Hell, only one mesmer is all it is needed to put the ele on the defensive.

Im not even talking using my personal experience with d/x Ele (which is one of the strongest class/builds, no denying that) just watching these “famous” ele like denshe and phantaram on twitch when they do stream in these days, and I see em literally MELT 2v1.