Guild Wars 2

Raif.9507:

The real answer would be to make it baseline where it functions only for you and create other GM’s that are worthy of being GM’s that compliment the playstyle and are playstyle changing. Fresh Air changes how the elementalist feels, more bursty, more air line oriented. Diamond Skin makes you like a tank as you just ignore condis and can just go for that frontline. EAttunement isn’t game changing, it’s a trait that makes an elementalist FEEL like an elementalist, there’s a difference.

Agreed, all we need is EA as baseline and a maybe a GM trait that makes the boons shareable with maybe a bigger range. With all the buffs to high burst classes taking away this defensive mechanism of gaining protection and blasting your own waterfields (if on staff) seems a little bit ridiculous..

Chris.5720:

Raif.9507:

The real answer would be to make it baseline where it functions only for you and create other GM’s that are worthy of being GM’s that compliment the playstyle and are playstyle changing. Fresh Air changes how the elementalist feels, more bursty, more air line oriented. Diamond Skin makes you like a tank as you just ignore condis and can just go for that frontline. EAttunement isn’t game changing, it’s a trait that makes an elementalist FEEL like an elementalist, there’s a difference.

Agreed, all we need is EA as baseline and a maybe a GM trait that makes the boons shareable with maybe a bigger range. With all the buffs to high burst classes taking away this defensive mechanism of gaining protection and blasting your own waterfields (if on staff) seems a little bit ridiculous..

Or, if the Boons were baseline on yourself and the GM trait made the boons slightly longer (20%?) and share with allies in a 600 radius.

That way, baseline could have some seemingly required boons that fits the Elementalists low HP, but the base was reduced so their non Arcana builds were t TOO strong, then allow proper sharing of said boons when traited for it.

Seems like it’d be a good route to take.

Edit: Or better yet, if it shared Attunement boons and increased the duration of all boons you applied by 20% so the trait is decent for personal uses, but also makes up a bit for the lost boon duration.

MaXi.3642:

and that’s the point, two very strong core traits are always picked and almost forcing everyone to go arcane… that’s the reason why they moved it to GM, they want you to choose or pick another line if you think it’s not worth it anymore…

crying that it’s so important and strong just proves they did it right and the trait belongs to the GM tier…

Let me give you an analogy:

Saying “These two traits are core to every build, so you have to choose” is like saying “wheels and an engine are core to every car, so now you have to choose one”

All you end up with is a car that doesn’t work.

These traits are SO CORE, b/c EVERY ASPECT of the class is balanced (for pvp) around the class having both. This is part of the reason we have stupidly long CD’s on our utilities. Is that also changing?….NOPE

ElAt and EvArc were gifts to the class to cope with least health and armor. Are we being given more of those?….NOPE

At the end of the day, the people balancing eles are just clueless about how the class works, why people playing the class enjoy it, and how to make it balanced. They actually think zephyr’s speed is a good trait (despite being redundant and over-written 95% of the time by speed buffs due to swiftness, one with air, signet of air, etc.).

Elemental Attunement is too good of a skill. You get uncontested boons that require no effort to obtain other than attuning to an element. With decent boon duration those boons last quite a long time. I compare an Ele’s access to protection to that of a guardian’s. A Guardian has to expend a long cooldown (shout, virtue, etc) to obtain protection reliably. They have the hammer AA, but that requires cycling the attack and not getting interrupted In PvE that’s very easy to obtain, but that may not necessarily be the case in other aspects in the game due to AI vs Player tactics. Ele’s, on the other hand, simply attune to Earth and receive the boon everytime. What’s worse is that they are able to distribute the boon as well. Evasive arcana has two levels of balance in that each attunement carries its own ICD as well as the Ele has to have endurance for dodging to to be able to trigger the effect.

Elemental Attunement should have been a GM all along as that level of uncontested boon control is quite powerful. The other reasoning I can see the trait being GM worthy is that there is no proactive counterplay to it. At the very least Evasive Arcana has a visual for counter play. E.G. Warrior is going for the kill shot but can notice an Air Ele dodging in his direction.

I saw another thread suggesting that the Elemental Attunement become baseline, but the trait should be diminished a little by making the boons only apply to the Ele and instead make the GM a trait that would once again distribute the boons as it currently does. That I see being a bit more reasonable, though I would ask that the baseline have a shorter boon duration and the GM also expand the base boon duration of those granted.

Raif.9507:

Elementalist as a class functions off boons that you generate, EAttunement generates said boons. Without them, you’re working at a lower efficiency compared to other classes who are not as boon reliant. Without EAttunement, the class feels as if it’s lacking something.

Then maybe in addition to making EAttunement a GM trait, they increase the base efficiency of the Elementalist to be less boon reliant, thus making the boons a bonus and not a requirement (although I have a feeling that the reason this isn’t being asked for by many is a lack of faith that anet can successfully implement that kind of change.)

savacli.8172:

Elemental Attunement is too good of a skill. You get uncontested boons that require no effort to obtain other than attuning to an element. With decent boon duration those boons last quite a long time. I compare an Ele’s access to protection to that of a guardian’s. A Guardian has to expend a long cooldown (shout, virtue, etc) to obtain protection reliably. They have the hammer AA, but that requires cycling the attack and not getting interrupted In PvE that’s very easy to obtain, but that may not necessarily be the case in other aspects in the game due to AI vs Player tactics. Ele’s, on the other hand, simply attune to Earth and receive the boon everytime. What’s worse is that they are able to distribute the boon as well. Evasive arcana has two levels of balance in that each attunement carries its own ICD as well as the Ele has to have endurance for dodging to to be able to trigger the effect.

Elemental Attunement should have been a GM all along as that level of uncontested boon control is quite powerful. The other reasoning I can see the trait being GM worthy is that there is no proactive counterplay to it. At the very least Evasive Arcana has a visual for counter play. E.G. Warrior is going for the kill shot but can notice an Air Ele dodging in his direction.

I saw another thread suggesting that the Elemental Attunement become baseline, but the trait should be diminished a little by making the boons only apply to the Ele and instead make the GM a trait that would once again distribute the boons as it currently does. That I see being a bit more reasonable, though I would ask that the baseline have a shorter boon duration and the GM also expand the base boon duration of those granted.

The thing is, it actually does require some effort cause if you don’t know your cooldowns (both skill and attunement) you gonna have a hard time managing your damamge, CC and sustain.

While I do agree that 6 1/2 seconds of protection every 20 seconds may be a bit much, keep in mind that the protection is the only defensive mechansim an ele actually has. While other classes have stealth, blocks, vulnerability or either of those combined, us eles have our cantrips and the protection (talking about PvP and WvW here). If you are playing on a relatively squishy ele, a good mesmer in WvW can one-shot you, with protection (which still requires skill to actually anticipate the bomb and then time the protection right) you are able to survive. While I agree that for cele D/Ds the boons on top of the celestial kitten is OP, on staff (or any other, more squishy set) it ain’t at all.

It is needed.

That is just one boon from one trait. There are various other defensive skills that can be used pro-actively. Beyond those Earth is providing a new trait for front liners and strikers to be able to soak hits very well. Being a buff it’s not susceptible to corruption which already seems better to me than protection. Thematically, it makes sense that Ele’s are tankier if the choose to spec into Earth. Water is also bringing additional access to frost aura which by itself reduces 10% damage but can also be traited to offer protection. Those two specs alone can offer 63% damage mitigation (assuming additive stacking). That leaves one spec left up for grabs.

I recognize that the Earth trait will not work in ranged situations. Though as such distances it’s generally easier to disengage.

Haven’t used EA in months, don’t know what the fuss is about. It’s definitely not a GM trait, but I’m not sad to see it “go”.

In PvE, the trait goes primarily unnoticed. In PvP/WvW that trait is considered to be a staple for survivability to its reliable/regular boon access. Up to 6.5 seconds of a boon (19.5 on might) as early as every 11 seconds is definitely powerful. Even more so the boon is applied to nearby team members as well.

BlackBeard.2873:

Moving Ele attunement to GM is hilarious. In an effort to give “build diversity” you are just pigeon-holing the class more. Ele currently tanks up b/c base defense is bad. Nerfing one of the primary means of defense just exacerbates the problem.

It’s kind of like saying “all the food except for the bread is terrible, so throw that bread in the trash then there will be more options for people to eat!”

I have been saying for years that this is how ANet is approaching issues of so-called “cookie cutter builds”. Elementalists in particular are heavily penalized for finding a build that matches strength with those of other classes; people use that build because the class is weak, and ANet’s solution isn’t to empower other abilities, only to nerf the useful ones (and maybe throw “stun breaker” on a skill that nobody uses because it’s terrible).

Thank you for putting that in a beautiful analogy.

Its not the might, its not the swiftness, the regen definitely helps but the reason this trait is THE trait of all traits is because of the protection. When combined with Elemental Shielding (The 2nd trait of all traits), you can obtain kitten near permanent protection.

Since not everyone wants to play the meta and the more bursty builds do rely on that protection if they want any survivability, I think its fair to make Elemental Attunement baseline IF, and only if they reduce the amount of potential protection duration so its not constantly up when traiting for a bunker build. There should be “weakspots” in order to provide counter play. I also believe important boons like protection should be more visible to the opposing player, instead of having to look at the boon icons maybe that shield that appears right as you gain protection could remain intact until the boon is gone. Thoughts?

Chris.5720:

While I do agree that 6 1/2 seconds of protection every 20 seconds may be a bit much, keep in mind that the protection is the only defensive mechansim an ele actually has.

6 1/5 sec every 20 sec? who seriously stay in one attunement for 10 sec? you know, we have 4, so in fact it can be up to 6 1/5 every 10 sec (without additional boon duration from other sources), after the trait revamp, attunement cooldown will be just 8.7 sec with arcane spec, indirectly buffing EAtt, but we don’t know what will happen with boon duration stat from arcane trait line, so maybe it will be 1 for 1, I don’t know…

also ele have more defenses than just EAtt (sadly almost all of them in water/arcane right now) and he will have even more defenses with trait revamp, thanks god even in other lines, so I don’t think arcane will be mandatory anymore

MaXi.3642:

Chris.5720:

While I do agree that 6 1/2 seconds of protection every 20 seconds may be a bit much, keep in mind that the protection is the only defensive mechansim an ele actually has.

6 1/5 sec every 20 sec? who seriously stay in one attunement for 10 sec? you know, we have 4, so in fact it can be up to 6 1/5 every 10 sec (without additional boon duration from other sources)

Yeah, my bad. Ofc the c/d is 10 seconds however at time you rotate your attunements around and stay longer in one than another due to casting or whatever. But yeah, ofc it’d be 6 1/2 every 10 seconds.

Provost.6210:

BlackBeard.2873:

Moving Ele attunement to GM is hilarious. In an effort to give “build diversity” you are just pigeon-holing the class more. Ele currently tanks up b/c base defense is bad. Nerfing one of the primary means of defense just exacerbates the problem.

It’s kind of like saying “all the food except for the bread is terrible, so throw that bread in the trash then there will be more options for people to eat!”

I have been saying for years that this is how ANet is approaching issues of so-called “cookie cutter builds”. Elementalists in particular are heavily penalized for finding a build that matches strength with those of other classes; people use that build because the class is weak, and ANet’s solution isn’t to empower other abilities, only to nerf the useful ones (and maybe throw “stun breaker” on a skill that nobody uses because it’s terrible).

Thank you for putting that in a beautiful analogy.

This.

ANet stated that Elemental Attunement and Evasive Arcana are core to the elementalist profession, thus a player should have to choose between one or the other. It doesn’t make sense. If these two are so vital to the elementalist, why not give us toned-down versions of these traits as baseline?

Make Elemental Attunement only apply to the caster. As for Evasive Arcana, I actually don’t think Evasive Arcana is all that powerful on its own. It’s only in conjunction with other traits (like elemental attunement and the heal on attuning to water) that makes Evasive Arcana so strong.

Now THAT would really open up new builds for elementalists. We would finally have some survivability inherently built into the class, allowing us to find more builds to play around with.

Meh I wouldn’t rage so much about it, still you have the elemental contingency and shorter cd of attunement swap (base 10 sec, 8,5 sec with arcana).
Main thing that worries me is (in wvw perspective) lack of swiftness without elemental atunement and zephyr boon (if you dont go into this traitline).
Also I would consider looking at fire traitline, cause burn will stack (also might on cantrips). They also should give something interesting in adept arcane line besides renewing stamina (too much vigor with those changes).

Rudy.6184:

Meh I wouldn’t rage so much about it, still you have the elemental contingency and shorter cd of attunement swap (base 10 sec, 8,5 sec with arcana).
Main thing that worries me is (in wvw perspective) lack of swiftness without elemental atunement and zephyr boon (if you dont go into this traitline).
Also I would consider looking at fire traitline, cause burn will stack (also might on cantrips). They also should give something interesting in adept arcane line besides renewing stamina (too much vigor with those changes).

Elemental Contingency is worthless to any elementalist save a tank elementalist. A burst elementalist doesn’t want to get hit at all.

This change has me really bummed out. These two traits were the things I liked best about elementalist.

BlackBeard.2873:

MaXi.3642:

and that’s the point, two very strong core traits are always picked and almost forcing everyone to go arcane… that’s the reason why they moved it to GM, they want you to choose or pick another line if you think it’s not worth it anymore…

crying that it’s so important and strong just proves they did it right and the trait belongs to the GM tier…

Let me give you an analogy:

Saying “These two traits are core to every build, so you have to choose” is like saying “wheels and an engine are core to every car, so now you have to choose one”

All you end up with is a car that doesn’t work.

These traits are SO CORE, b/c EVERY ASPECT of the class is balanced (for pvp) around the class having both. This is part of the reason we have stupidly long CD’s on our utilities. Is that also changing?….NOPE

ElAt and EvArc were gifts to the class to cope with least health and armor. Are we being given more of those?….NOPE

At the end of the day, the people balancing eles are just clueless about how the class works, why people playing the class enjoy it, and how to make it balanced. They actually think zephyr’s speed is a good trait (despite being redundant and over-written 95% of the time by speed buffs due to swiftness, one with air, signet of air, etc.).

Exactly.

If a dev is reading this they really need to reconsider this change if they want people to continue playing elementalists.

Let’s face it, with the current changes every pvp/wvw ele is going to spec water/arcane/?, just like we have been doing since release.

With mesmer’s 2 strongest GM traits, PU and IP, becoming baseline, plus the new stuff, I’m probably going to be playing my mesmer anyway.

red.2387:

This change has me really bummed out. These two traits were the things I liked best about elementalist.

I can live without Evasive Arcana, which to me is a playstyle choice, and therefore an ideal GM trait, but EAtt feels like it’s very much a core part of the class, and accordingly should be baselined, even in a solo/reduced duration form.

I agree with OP, but not really sure it matters. This sub-forum looks like a ghost town when it comes to devs. I was just finally getting back into my ele too

Funny part is 12 months ago EAtt was at adept tier and moved to Master. Now it is moving to the GM.

It took them 3 years to figure out a trait they created during the design of the class belongs actually belong to GM.

Either they don’t know anything about their game or who ever balancing the Elementalist does not know anything about Elementalist.

Can we get at least one developer/balancer that we know that he/she play Ele like we know Groudge plays Engi.

posthumecaver.6473:

Funny part is 12 months ago EAtt was at adept tier and moved to Master. Now it is moving to the GM.

It took them 3 years to figure out a trait they created during the design of the class belongs actually belong to GM.

Either they don’t know anything about their game or who ever balancing the Elementalist does not know anything about Elementalist.

Can we get at least one developer/balancer that we know that he/she play Ele like we know Groudge plays Engi.

Back then they first move it they wanted to move it to GM and not just master.

leave elemental attunement as master trait, make it give boons only to allies and not yourself but increase the radius.

Jekkt.6045:

leave elemental attunement as master trait, make it give boons only to allies and not yourself but increase the radius.

What? no. The other way round, sure but what’s the point in a trait that only others have use of..

because this is where your support comes from, ele has enough access to these boons, especially protection with the change to soothing mist.

Glenstorm.4059:

I don’t understand how the devs can make Illusionary Persona and Illusionary Elasticity baseline for mesmers, but force us to choose between the EAs.

PLEASE, PLEASE make a self-only version of Elemental Attunement a baseline functionality for us, and convert the GM version to extend the effect to allies.

This is great, but if this is done, I’d like to see the extend it to allies trait master and something truly worthy of competing against evasive arcana grandmaster.

Cecilia.5179:

Glenstorm.4059:

I don’t understand how the devs can make Illusionary Persona and Illusionary Elasticity baseline for mesmers, but force us to choose between the EAs.

PLEASE, PLEASE make a self-only version of Elemental Attunement a baseline functionality for us, and convert the GM version to extend the effect to allies.

This is great, but if this is done, I’d like to see the extend it to allies trait master and something truly worthy of competing against evasive arcana grandmaster.

Exactly, if it’s made a baseline and the trait making it aoe for allies will be GM, we’re having the same issue again. The build will be more and more selfish and no one will run it. Doesn’t solve anything.