Guild Wars 2

You need to remove the mist form skill from downed state and we have officially balanced out the elementalists in wvw at least. They can still come out the fort and kitten up a entire zerg over and over again since their mist form still is the only skill that can take you inside again through the fort door. That would be all.

while we’re at it, let’s remove all abilities that allow all classes to escape. Like invisibility off thieves and endure pain off warriors -_-

lol this is very lame, elementalist are already weak and squishy, if they cannot even escape for 3 secs (not like for ever am i right?), what’s the meaning of do something there with an ele?

Mirta.5029:

while we’re at it, let’s remove all abilities that allow all classes to escape. Like invisibility off thieves and endure pain off warriors -_-

He said mist form while downed. When a thief turns invisible in his downstate you can continue dealing damage to him or her. Don’t turn his point into something it isn’t.

I don’t think mistform needs to be removed from the downstate. I think ANet should remove Elementalist’s ability to run through portals in WvW while it is still active but only during their downed state. Thieves and Mesmers can’t teleport inside of towers, while they are downed so there is no reason why Elementalist should be able to stand outside of keeps, get downed, then just mistform back inside to rez.

That said, I don’t think ANet has the capacity to make this change. Their state of the game cast a couple of months back acknowledged that Elementalist had crazy mobility and they talked about bringing other classes, like the thief, up to it but so far they’ve fallen pretty short on it.

So if you manage to catch an Elementalist and kill it, make sure you don’t do it too close to a building they own, cause they’ll just float right on inside!

Balance.

Yuujin.1067:

He said mist form while downed. When a thief turns invisible in his downstate you can continue dealing damage to him or her. Don’t turn his point into something it isn’t.

I don’t think mistform needs to be removed from the downstate. I think ANet should remove Elementalist’s ability to run through portals in WvW while it is still active. Thieves and Mesmers can’t teleport inside of towers, so there is no reason why Elementalist should be able to stand outside of keeps, get downed, then just mistform back inside.

That said, I don’t think ANet has the capacity to make this change. Their state of the game cast a couple of months back acknowledged that Elementalist had crazy mobility and they talked about bringing other classes, like the thief, up to it but so far they’ve fallen pretty short on it.

So if you manage to catch an Elementalist and kill it, make sure you don’t do it too close to a building they own, cause they’ll just float right on inside!

Balance.

Well think of it this way:
1. Elementalist abilities like ride the lightning have an insane CD now
2. They have the least base health of all classes (11K)
3. The mist form lasts 3 seconds and if you immobilize a downed elementalist they can’t go anywhere.
There’s nothing OP about elementalists. If poster’s zerg is getting pawned by one elementalist then I would say that it’s a bad zerg.

Mirta.5029:

Well think of it this way:
1. Elementalist abilities like ride the lightning have an insane CD now
2. They have the least base health of all classes (11K)
3. The mist form lasts 3 seconds and if you immobilize a downed elementalist they can’t go anywhere.
There’s nothing OP about elementalists. If poster’s zerg is getting pawned by one elementalist then I would say that it’s a bad zerg.

1) Ride the Lightning, Burning Speed, and Swiftness. Let’s not pretend Elementalist aren’t mobile. That’s just silly.
2) http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Health They share this honor with two other classes, the Guardian and the Thief.
3) That’s all well and good but considering not every profession weapon combination has an immobilize this is a terrible reason to allow elementalist to pass through portals while downed.

This isn’t a situation of elementalist being overpowered, it is a situation of elementalist being able to mistform through portals while they are downed. No other class is able to do this, and there is no reason why elementalist should be able to hop off their walls, engage the enemy, get downed, then simply mistform back into the tower.

If you’re fighting on behalf of this cheesy tactic, I don’t know what to say.

No need to remove the skill, just change it so you can’t pass gate/portal when you’re in that downed mist form and it’d be enough.

Btw, warriors when downed also can stand up and move into keeps. Yes they’ll die soon after that but team players can immediately revive them thereafter. Will you say the warriors also cannot pass gates/portals in that state?

Yuujin.1067:

3) That’s all well and good but considering not every profession weapon combination has an immobilize this is a terrible reason to allow elementalist to pass through portals while downed.

So you’re telling me that you don’t bring a hard counter on your party and then go home to cry that you can’t kill an elementalist?
You know what people say what thieves are one hit killing them while invisible? “stack vitality and bring aoe’s”. You know what warriors are told when they can’t remove conditions? “Run a shout build!” You know what melee classes are told when they can’t keep up with ranged? “Bring a ranged weapon!”.
So I’m telling you bring an immobilize. How is it the classes fault that you’re not bringing a counter?

You dont have to kitten up and entire downbstate just to stop mistforming into keeps in wvw.
If you think its lame and needs fixing just make keeps not allowing downed eles to port in while in downed mistform or something like that
Btw.. if you immobilise elementalist in downed state bfore they mist they wont be able to mistform away..So dont pretend its something uncounterable.
You down them you immob them and then dps the hell out of them.Against a smal zerg they ll just collapse in no time and if they mist they ll be immobilised and unable to escape unless they are right nxt to the door and immob doesnt last long

I think though that porting while in regular mist form is legit and no overpowered at all

chnet.1832:

No need to remove the skill, just change it so you can’t pass gate/portal when you’re in that downed mist form and it’d be enough.

Btw, warriors when downed also can stand up and move into keeps. Yes they’ll die soon after that but team players can immediately revive them thereafter. Will you say the warriors also cannot pass gates/portals in that state?

Yes, it’s cheesy as kitten. I do NOT want people who are downed being able to escape and get ressed inside a tower. Then all classes should be able to do it. Not 1-2 professions only.

Edit: I run a stunlock/daze build so I know how to counter their downstate. It’s just annoying when they do get away inside a tower/get ressed/and back to battle again.

Aeranima.2853:

Yes, it’s cheesy as kitten. I do NOT want people who are downed being able to escape and get ressed inside a tower..

Then IMMOBILIZE THEM!
Warrior Immobilize skills:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_warrior_skills
1. Long bow – pin down
2. sword – flurry
3. Utility – Throw bollas
Guardian Immobilize skills:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_guardian_skills
1. Hammer – Zealot’s embrace
2. Scepter – chains of light
3. Utility – signet of wrath
Thief immobilize skills:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_thief_skills
1. Shortbow – surprise shot
2. Utility – needle trap
3. Utility – devourer venom
Engineer immobilize skills:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_engineer_skills
1. Riffle – net shot
2. pistol off-hand – glue shot
3. Utility – net turret
4. bomb kit – net bomb
Elementalist immobilize skills:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_elementalist_skills
1. Staff – earth – shockwave
2. dagger – earth – magnetic grab
3. Utility – signet of earth
Ranger immobilize skills:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_ranger_skills
1. Utility – stone spirit – quicksand
2. Utility – muddy terrain
3. Elite – entangle
Mesmer immobilize skills:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_mesmer_skills
1. Sword – illusionary leap – swap
Necromancer immobilize skills:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_necromancer_skills
1. dagger – dark pact
2. utility – summon bone fiend – rigor mortis

All classes have immobilize. Use it.

Aeranima.2853:

You need to remove the mist form skill from downed state and we have officially balanced out the elementalists in wvw at least. They can still come out the fort and kitten up a entire zerg over and over again since their mist form still is the only skill that can take you inside again through the fort door. That would be all.

How about you deal with it?

Saying thakittens unfair that eles can do that in downed is quite weird. Its very situational. And since we have lowest armor and hp let us have this highly situational advantage.

Aeranima.2853:

You need to remove the mist form skill from downed state and we have officially balanced out the elementalists in wvw at least. They can still come out the fort and kitten up a entire zerg

Was the AoE cap removed recently?

More bad thief players whining for ele to be nerfed when theyre already able to run circles around us and 1 shot us. Nothing to see here.

To the OP.
Learn to immobilise them, take some of those damage/pewpewspells off of your bar & put something to stop the Ele` going back in.
Job fixed. It`s folk like you that got RTL nerfed to stupid degrees.
Ele` already has to go to back of the tower/keep to open bag, swap weapons, tidy where spare one randomly landed & that`s assuming they`ve waited ten minutes to leave combat (stupid game mechanic gw2 has…)

But hey, if you want to “balance” things, give them weapon swap so they don`t have to come out at all ;p

Ele` downed state is only ever of use near a keep. Rest of the game it`s more of a waste of time.
wtb suicide button…

" They can still come out the fort and kitten up a entire zerg over and over again …."
Because you lot let them!
They can only do it 2 or 4 times & death insta-hits them, they can`t do it at all if you lot learn to stop them getting back in…

Lowest armor in the game, lowest hitpoints in the game, only class that cannot switch from melee to ranged in combat, recently had half their mobility removed, next patch is destroying the rest of their mobility… fact is if you can’t kill an ele you just aren’t good.

Eles are in fact the weakest class now, it’s just that there are so many bad players who have the “Full Zerk on everything, all damage skills, No cc abilities, stand still and never dodge our obvious attacks” mentality that think eles are strong. Yeah we can heal a lot and cleanse conditions a lot. But we HAVE to just to be at the base survivability of what other classes have who just go full zerk and go “kitten i’m just gonna mow down everything in my path and anything that I cant 1 shot is OP and therefore must be nerfed.” This is just a learn to play issue on your part. My pet on my ranger can take down most eles by himself while I just sit there and do nothing. My freaking pet! and anyone who’s played ranger knows how crappy and horrible the pets AI is. And my snow leapord will be nerfed in the next patch and be even less effective, but I bet i’ll still be able to kill eles with him without attacking them once myself. And by the way, my ranger is level 46, upleveled with crappy gear and I can do this to level 80 eles in full exotics. LEARN TO PLAY!

Mirta.5029:

Aeranima.2853:

Yes, it’s cheesy as kitten. I do NOT want people who are downed being able to escape and get ressed inside a tower..

Then IMMOBILIZE THEM!
Warrior Immobilize skills:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_warrior_skills
1. Long bow – pin down
2. sword – flurry
3. Utility – Throw bollas
Guardian Immobilize skills:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_guardian_skills
1. Hammer – Zealot’s embrace
2. Scepter – chains of light
3. Utility – signet of wrath
Thief immobilize skills:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_thief_skills
1. Shortbow – surprise shot
2. Utility – needle trap
3. Utility – devourer venom
Engineer immobilize skills:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_engineer_skills
1. Riffle – net shot
2. pistol off-hand – glue shot
3. Utility – net turret
4. bomb kit – net bomb
Elementalist immobilize skills:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_elementalist_skills
1. Staff – earth – shockwave
2. dagger – earth – magnetic grab
3. Utility – signet of earth
Ranger immobilize skills:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_ranger_skills
1. Utility – stone spirit – quicksand
2. Utility – muddy terrain
3. Elite – entangle
Mesmer immobilize skills:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_mesmer_skills
1. Sword – illusionary leap – swap
Necromancer immobilize skills:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_necromancer_skills
1. dagger – dark pact
2. utility – summon bone fiend – rigor mortis

All classes have immobilize. Use it.

This doesn’t just work for stopping mistform, it works for absolutely destroying any build/spec ele. Even BEFORE all the nerfs d/d ele have recieved, all you had to do was immob us…. very simple

Mirta.5029:

So you’re telling me that you don’t bring a hard counter on your party and then go home to cry that you can’t kill an elementalist?
You know what people say what thieves are one hit killing them while invisible? “stack vitality and bring aoe’s”. You know what warriors are told when they can’t remove conditions? “Run a shout build!” You know what melee classes are told when they can’t keep up with ranged? “Bring a ranged weapon!”.
So I’m telling you bring an immobilize. How is it the classes fault that you’re not bringing a counter?

Wow, you are actually defending this cheesy tactic.

You seem to be missing the point of what the original poster threw out there. Elementalist are the only class that can get up and run through portals while they are in their downed states, after they’ve already had their health bar taken from 100% to 0%. They can then proceed to heal up safely on the other side.

There is absolutely no skill involved in this tactic. They can do whatever you want. suicide burst down siege, finish off low health targets that were at range, dance in front of the gate, then get downed, mistform back into their towers, heal up, then do it again while every other class in the game actually have to SURVIVE and make it back to the portal while alive. There is very little risk involved in this ‘strategy.’

No one is asking for the removal of the ability, they are just asking you not be allowed to pass through portals with it active while you are downed.

alright lets remove mist form and replace it with a tornado over us that kicks everybody off or do you want killing the class that has the lowest armor and hp to be even easier?

theres much bigger problems than not being able to get maybe 2 badges off the squishiest class in the game.
if you can’t kill an ele than you’re just bad.

Did you, oh masters, even try to immob downed ele? I don’t know what’s your condi duration, but with +30% my immob (muddy terrain) runs out before his mist form ends and if he has at least half of brain, he dies close enough to doors so this time is still enough to get inside. Not to mention CAST TIMES on immobilizes (at least all ranger ones) that make it simply impossible to hit ele who presses 2. as soon as he notices he is going down.

Terkov.4138:

Did you, oh masters, even try to immob downed ele? I don’t know what’s your condi duration, but with +30% my immob (muddy terrain) runs out before his mist form ends and if he has at least half of brain, he dies close enough to doors so this time is still enough to get inside. Not to mention CAST TIMES on immobilizes (at least all ranger ones) that make it simply impossible to hit ele who presses 2. as soon as he notices he is going down.

do you realize that chills and cripple also work, immobilize is just the best one since he can’t move.
just because he’s invulnerable doesn’t mean all of his conditions are going to be cured.
cripple or chill him since i know those ranger traps are instant cast

Vapor Form is objectively a ridiculous downed health skill. However, the Ele’s other two downed skills totally and utterly suck. So a full downed-health rework that involves the removal of Vapor Form (or even just autoroots us) would be ok if they made rallying something that could happen ever.

Yuujin.1067:

Wow, you are actually defending this cheesy tactic.

You seem to be missing the point of what the original poster threw out there. Elementalist are the only class that can get up and run through portals while they are in their downed states, after they’ve already had their health bar taken from 100% to 0%. They can then proceed to heal up safely on the other side.

It is cheesy, but out of all the cheesy things in this game this has the simplest counter; just don’t fight so close to enemy structures.

If you are running in a small man group, your team can build a catapult to force enemies further away from their safe zone. If you are zerging a tower, you don’t really deserve any reward for what you’re doing anyway.

Also, eles are the only profession that can go through a portal while downed, but plenty of profession are nearly unkillable near their own structures. Players are supposed to be safer near towers and keeps that they hold. You’re not really going to kill a thief, guardian or mesmer within vapor form distance of a tower either.

Yuujin.1067:

Wow, you are actually defending this cheesy tactic.

You seem to be missing the point of what the original poster threw out there. Elementalist are the only class that can get up and run through portals while they are in their downed states, after they’ve already had their health bar taken from 100% to 0%. They can then proceed to heal up safely on the other side.

And you want to remove the lifeline of a class that’s weak and easy to kill to begin with. I suggested counters. OP simply doesn’t want to counter, he wants to rofflestomp with an auto-attack so it seems. Something is only OP if it can’t be countered, if it can be countered by absolutely everyone, why should it be reworked?

Terkov.4138:

Did you, oh masters, even try to immob downed ele? I don’t know what’s your condi duration, but with +30% my immob (muddy terrain) runs out before his mist form ends and if he has at least half of brain, he dies close enough to doors so this time is still enough to get inside. Not to mention CAST TIMES on immobilizes (at least all ranger ones) that make it simply impossible to hit ele who presses 2. as soon as he notices he is going down.

Does your Immob last less than 3 seconds? If so, which skill are you using (it might need a buff)? If it lasts at least 3 seconds then an ele shouldn’t mist form trough the door.
I run an ele in PVE. When I go down at dwayna or melandru I’m as good as dead unless I mist form closer to a person and even then sometimes my mist form doesn’t work for long enough to carry me a distance equal of 2 meters. It doesn’t last long and is easy to counter even for mobs (did you see the immob that Melandru does? Lasts for forever!).

Every class has pros and cons. Comparing only downed states is only part of the picture. For instance you keep saying ‘but but guardians also have lowest hp’. True, but both Thief and Guardian have extra armor, compared to ele.

Ele skills are slow, long channel skills. Thiefs almost instantly. Guardians have a second ‘full hp’ healing skill in the form of Empower. If Ele survivability gets nerfed, i want, thief speed/guardian healing nerfed. See where this is going?

Comparing only downed states doesnt work. They balanced profession in such a way that everybody has up and downsides. And doing a big nerf on anything (in my opinion), might imbalance the game.

If so i also like stealth stomping nerfed. There is simply no counter to it, (unless guardian aoe push back). Yes i think it’s overpowered, but every profession has it’s own ‘crazy’ thing. I think that’s what’s make them unique.

If we nerf all that’s good into the ground, there will be no profesison variation and everybody will be a clone of each other. That’s what we want right?

There’s many counters to ele running back into tower. (like killing him 3x very fast, then he has red downed penalty and dies next time). Or pull him with a temporal curtain just out of reach from the gate. Or push him forward into the gate. Or immobalize him. Or chill/cripple. If he dies far away from gate, and gets just alive inside, aoe the kitten out of him. like Life transfer it will kill him.

A thief can basically do the same, dagger storm, if something go wrong, use the shadowstep, and instantly move 1200 range to gate, and be out of harms way. A warrior with stability/and or endure pain, with greatsword and sword combo, also has easy way of escaping. Those do not need nerfs? Those players deserve to live cause they retreat faster? I don’t think so. Downed state is part of combat. It’s part of the profession and the balance around professions. Deal with it.

Mirta.5029:

And you want to remove the lifeline of a class that’s weak and easy to kill to begin with. I suggested counters. OP simply doesn’t want to counter, he wants to rofflestomp with an auto-attack so it seems. Something is only OP if it can’t be countered, if it can be countered by absolutely everyone, why should it be reworked?

You quoted everything but the part of my post where I specifically said NO ONE IS ASKING FOR VAPOR FORM TO BE REMOVED. Since you can’t seem to grasp it, I’ll type it in caps again; NO ONE IS ASKING FOR VAPOR FORM TO BE REMOVED. We’re asking that you no longer be able to pass through portals while you are downed with it.

All of this nonsense about immobilizing an elementalist or not killing them close to a portal is just ridiculous. When they are suicide nuking siege then Vapor Forming back into their towers, you don’t get to choose where to fight them.

When you see them go down IMMOBILIZE them before they have a chance to vapor form. If you cant do this then you are just bad, simple as that. It doesn’t need to be changed, it’s fine as is. If players are to incompetent to immobilize us then we deserve to get away. By the way warrior can also get up and walk back in through the portal while they are downed and have the benefit of being able to use all of their skills while in that state as well. I’ve been downed with my warrior, gotten back up and used “Fear Me!” to scare people away from me and Endure Pain ensuring that I walk in safely so my teammates can res me afterwards. And Warrior can move ALOT further than ele can in downed form. Ele has to be almost next to the door to get back in. I can be relatively far away and use all my warriors movement skills and get back in.

Nikkinella.8254:

When you see them go down IMMOBILIZE them before they have a chance to vapor form. If you cant do this then you are just bad, simple as that. It doesn’t need to be changed, it’s fine as is. If players are to incompetent to immobilize us then we deserve to get away. By the way warrior can also get up and walk back in through the portal while they are downed and have the benefit of being able to use all of their skills while in that state as well. I’ve been downed with my warrior, gotten back up and used “Fear Me!” to scare people away from me and Endure Pain ensuring that I walk in safely so my teammates can res me afterwards. And Warrior can move ALOT further than ele can in downed form. Ele has to be almost next to the door to get back in. I can be relatively far away and use all my warriors movement skills and get back in.

Warriors still die afterwards and take the repair hit and nine times out of ten you can kill them before the skill even becomes active. You can’t compare the two.

Elementalist can keep their Vapor Form, they just can’t Vapor Form through portals. I don’t see why this is such a difficult concept to grasp or why you guys keep bringing skill into this while ignoring the issue presented by the original poster.

There is no skill involved in hitting Vapor Form and running through a portal yet people are expected to have to save and time their immoblizes or coordinate with people who have them to prevent elementalist from using this skill less, cheesy tactic.

If there was some skill involved in it, I doubt anyone would care, but there isn’t any and the fact that some of you are trying to compare it to shadowstepping while still alive (Which by the way doesn’t put you through portals. If you shadowstep on top of a portal you have to back up then run through it again) or popping invulnerability while still alive just shows how little you guys understand the mechanics of other classes.

And why should we not be able to vapor form into the tower when you can stop us from doing it easily? Just because you refuse to use an immobilize to stop us from doing it? If they do remove it then I want them to remove warriors ability to walk through doors after they get back up as well. or better yet lock all their skills when they get up in that downed state so I cant use my greatsword to dash away from my enemies and run back into the tower. And who cares if I still die afterwards? I’m still getting inside where I can be rezzed and come back out again to continue the fight. same thing.

Well, I do agree it is a bit unfair, but out of all the possible things to complain about, why this one?

If I fall off a keep wall, I’ll simply hit Mist Form and walk in.

Oh, and

Yuujin.1067:

There is no skill involved in hitting Vapor Form Shadowstep+stealth and running through a portal literally anywhere yet people are expected to have to save and time their immoblizes 1200 range gap closer or coordinate with people who have them to prevent elementalist Thieves from using this skill less, cheesy tactic.

Elementalists are almost guaranteed to escape into a keep (I dunno, most people don’t like to immobilize). Thieves are almost guaranteed to escape any encounter they don’t want to be in.

While vapor form is imbalanced in WvW ( at least in comparison to everyone else’ down states), there are much larger glaring issues like the one above.

If it was such a big issue, you would see mostly Elementalists defending castles. Yet this is not true. And if it was such a big issue, you would mostly see roaming Thieves. Yet this is not…waaaaiiiitttt

Nikkinella.8254:

And why should we not be able to vapor form into the tower when you can stop us from doing it easily? Just because you refuse to use an immobilize to stop us from doing it? If they do remove it then I want them to remove warriors ability to walk through doors after they get back up as well. or better yet lock all their skills when they get up in that downed state so I cant use my greatsword to dash away from my enemies and run back into the tower. And who cares if I still die afterwards? I’m still getting inside where I can be rezzed and come back out again to continue the fight. same thing.

Another long list of things that someone has to do to counter a cheesy tactic. The fact that Elementalist don’t even try to survive and just let themselves die so they can easily float back inside through a portal should be evidence enough that this tactic requires absolutely no skill.

At this point, arguing with you seems futile. You just keep proposing that it falls upon their opponents to have the right utility set up, or have access to their immobilizes the moment a Elementalist drops to counter the Elementalist pressing 2 on his action bar and floating to safety.

If a warrior stands up, walks through a portal, and dies on the other side, you still get credit for the kill, a loot bag, and he takes a repair hit. They are not the same thing.

The majority is missing the point. Either all classes should be able to escape through the fort portal or no one should. There should be no exceptions.

Just to defend my experience in combat: I know most classes inside-out through pvp. I’ve experienced and suffered nerfs on many of my preferred professions as well as upgrades to them. The immobilizing is not the problem here in wvw – it is the squishy escapes. Not even thieves can escape through portals while in downed state and teleports to the fort portal. With that said, I think people understand me and others frustration. 1 elementalist can STILL hold of a zerg alone thanks to mistforming through a fort portal.

And keep the tone civil to eachother. There are no bad players, just unbalanced professions.

Aeranima.2853:

The majority is missing the point. Either all classes should be able to escape through the fort portal or no one should. There should be no exceptions.

I don’t agree. By that logic all classes should get a disengage on the level of Shadow Refuge or RTL, which is not going to happen either. After all, these abilities, along with vapor form, are (nearly) guaranteed escapes, depending on whether you are roaming or defending a castle.

Not saying that vapor form isn’t imbalanced, but that logic seems a bit odd.

You’re probably one of those people who also cried for RTL to be nerfed because you refused to bring an immobilize skill with you which pretty much made the ele a free kill if you used it right as they activate it. If they nerf our downed state, which sucks right now, then they need to up our survivability in general so we don’t get downed as often in the first place. or replace it with something similar to the warriors skill. Would that make it better, if we could come back to life and use all our skills and still get away? You’d probably still whine about it and throw a tantrum till we get nerfed even further than we have already. you people won’t be satisfied till we’re nothing but walking lootbags. How about they just make it so that as soon as we enter wvw as an ele the WASD keys are disabled on our keyboards and we just stand there for you to kill? will that make you happy?

Aeranima.2853:

The majority is missing the point. Either all classes should be able to escape through the fort portal or no one should. There should be no exceptions.

Just to defend my experience in combat: I know most classes inside-out through pvp. I’ve experienced and suffered nerfs on many of my preferred professions as well as upgrades to them. The immobilizing is not the problem here in wvw – it is the squishy escapes. Not even thieves can escape through portals while in downed state and teleports to the fort portal. With that said, I think people understand me and others frustration. 1 elementalist can STILL hold of a zerg alone thanks to mistforming through a fort portal.

And keep the tone civil to eachother. There are no bad players, just unbalanced professions.

Yes and no. I don’t agree that any class should be able to pass through a portal in PvP while they are supposedly ‘downed’ because that’s supposed to be a part of the risk of jumping off the wall. I don’t really care so much for warriors because they die immediately after running inside so there is a certain sense of satisfaction that comes from it. Even if they are getting rezzed on the other side, they still died.

But yeah, I don’t think any class should be able to pass through portals and live while they are downed. The ability warriors have brings you back to life (You are no longer in a downed stated), then -kills you afterwards- which is a lot different from giving yourself invulnerability, portaling to safety, then healing yourself back to full.

Nikkinella.8254:

You’re probably one of those people who also cried for RTL to be nerfed because you refused to bring an immobilize skill with you which pretty much made the ele a free kill if you used it right as they activate it. If they nerf our downed state, which sucks right now, then they need to up our survivability in general so we don’t get downed as often in the first place. or replace it with something similar to the warriors skill. Would that make it better, if we could come back to life and use all our skills and still get away? You’d probably still whine about it and throw a tantrum till we get nerfed even further than we have already. you people won’t be satisfied till we’re nothing but walking lootbags. How about they just make it so that as soon as we enter wvw as an ele the WASD keys are disabled on our keyboards and we just stand there for you to kill? will that make you happy?

No, this is really the only aspect of Elementalist that I dislike. I don’t think the people purposely getting themselves killed then running back into their towers through portals in vapor form is a surviability issue. You shouldn’t be jumping off the walls and suiciding in the first place. This is Elementalist abusing an aspect of their downed state that I’m sure ANet didn’t plan for. This is not an issue of surviability. If you guys couldn’t float back into your keeps through portals while downed, you wouldn’t jump off the walls and get yourself killed.

This is exploiting a crappy mechanic.

Survivability problem solved.

Yuujin.1067:

No, this is really the only aspect of Elementalist that I dislike. I don’t think the people purposely getting themselves killed then running back into their towers through portals in vapor form is a surviability issue. You shouldn’t be jumping off the walls and suiciding in the first place. This is Elementalist abusing an aspect of their downed state that I’m sure ANet didn’t plan for. This is not an issue of surviability. If you guys couldn’t float back into your keeps through portals while downed, you wouldn’t jump off the walls and get yourself killed.

This is exploiting a crappy mechanic.

Survivability problem solved.

& what about those that didn`t jump, but were pulled down via Mesmers, thieves or that stupid bot siege razer? (or the rangers with their pull soon..) whilst they were just up there sorting through their bags to weapon swap (still a kittened thing to have to do!)

But here`s another hint. If one ele` does this & gets back through, then fair enough, you lot weren`t maybe ready for it (or more likely didn`t have spells to drag them far from the keep/immob` them)
If this happens lots, then it is definitely the fault of you lot & not the ele`.
If you`ve witnessed them doing this over & over (which they can only do a few times before instantly dying) then you`ve obviously the wrong spells on your bars/wrong weapons attached.

I play ele` & back when I used to play in WvWs, had plenty stopping me from rushing into a keep to defend & stopped me from vapour forming in.

Likewise on alts, I can stop them all too easily.

They take this away then they need to take away the ability of other classes to yank us off the tops of towers.

Fishbait.6723:

& what about those that didn`t jump, but were pulled down via Mesmers, thieves or that stupid bot siege razer? (or the rangers with their pull soon..) whilst they were just up there sorting through their bags to weapon swap (still a kittened thing to have to do!)

They can use their non-downstate mist form? You know you have one of those, right?

If they aren’t concerned enough about their surviability to invest in it then they can do what every other class does which is not stand by the edges of the wall or fight to make their way back inside if they do get pulled off?

Fishbait.6723:

But here`s another hint. If one ele` does this & gets back through, then fair enough, you lot weren`t maybe ready for it (or more likely didn`t have spells to drag them far from the keep/immob` them)
If this happens lots, then it is definitely the fault of you lot & not the ele`.
If you`ve witnessed them doing this over & over (which they can only do a few times before instantly ding) then you`ve obviously the wrong spells on your bars/wrong weapons attached.

I play ele` & back when I used to play in WvWs, had plenty stopping me from rushing into a keep to defend & stopped me from vapour forming in.

No sense in broken recording what’s been said a dozen times already so you can just scroll up.

Nikkinella.8254:

They take this away then they need to take away the ability of other classes to yank us off the tops of towers.

Not just you, everyone can get yanked off towers. Unlike Elementalist, Warriors, and Mesmer, not all classes have an invulnerability spell to make them immune to damage while they run back in.

As a class that doesn’t have access to invulnerability, it should be my place to suggest that they get rid of pull abilities. I think they are frustrating and the mesmer’s is way more effective than the thief’s (Protip: A thief can only pull you if you are standing on flat ground or on the lip where as a Mesmer can pull you over the lip) but there is no reason to get rid of this mechanic. The point is for there to be real and present danger. With the invulnerability spells elementalist have access to WHILE OUT of their downed state, they have no room to complain.

Yeah you’re saying the same thing over and over again. “I don’t want to have to change the skills i’m using and bring some sort of means to stop this even though I easily can, so it needs to be nerfed.” It’s fine how it is. There are many, many ways to stop it and if you don’t bring one of those things with you, the ele deserves to get away.

Nikkinella.8254:

Yeah you’re saying the same thing over and over again. “I don’t want to have to change the skills i’m using and bring some sort of means to stop this even though I easily can, so it needs to be nerfed.” It’s fine how it is. There are many, many ways to stop it and if you don’t bring one of those things with you, the ele deserves to get away.

Hahaha, asking someone to have to change their utility to counter a skill someone gets after you’ve already killed them is silly. You realize that right?

I don’t see what’s so silly about it. My point is you CAN stop it. If you choose not to, that’s your decision. It doesn’t need to be nerfed just because you don’t want to use the skills you have at your disposal. Why would you not bring some sort of cc ability with you in the first place when fighting near someone elses tower? That’s just common sense. You must main a thief because that’s their typical mentality. “I don’t want to adapt to what my enemy is capable of so nerf them so I can just use the same things I use on everyone I encounter and ensure my victory 100% of the time!”

I’m sure they’ll eventually replace vapor form with an ability that instantly puts the ele in defeated state so they can respawn sooner. Of course, then whiners will complain that they can’t force eles to bleed out to waste time.

If it was a thief down skill, the response would be to just keep going and ignore them (this was literally an ANet response to unkillable (anywhere, ever) thieves).

That’s because a dev plays a thief. So if any thief whines loudly enough they will nerf whatever is making them kitten.

Nikkinella.8254:

I don’t see what’s so silly about it. My point is you CAN stop it. If you choose not to, that’s your decision. It doesn’t need to be nerfed just because you don’t want to use the skills you have at your disposal. Why would you not bring some sort of cc ability with you in the first place when fighting near someone elses tower? That’s just common sense. You must main a thief because that’s their typical mentality. “I don’t want to adapt to what my enemy is capable of so nerf them so I can just use the same things I use on everyone I encounter and ensure my victory 100% of the time!”

I do main a thief. That means to counter it by myself I would need to stealth then shoot you with my shortbow, replace one of my signets with the immobilize venom or with an immobile trap. It is not a question of having to adapt to a situation so much as myself or any other profession and player having to sacrifice a utility slot or adopt a weapon set to counter one specific cheesy tactic that people like yourself seem fond of.

The idea that anyone should have to set up their utilities a certain way or use a specific set of weapons to counter Elementalist turning invincible and flying through a portal while downed is silly. You want other people to have to eat up valuable utility slots just to counter you getting downed and pressing 2.

The idea that you want other players to have to use skill to counter your lack of skill, then turn it around on them as if there is an issue with them and not yourself is exactly why this needs to change.

Caffynated.5713:

I’m sure they’ll eventually replace vapor form with an ability that instantly puts the ele in defeated state so they can respawn sooner. Of course, then whiners will complain that they can’t force eles to bleed out to waste time.

If it was a thief down skill, the response would be to just keep going and ignore them (this was literally an ANet response to unkillable (anywhere, ever) thieves).

Keep Vapor Form. Lose the ability to go through portals. Are you saying the skill would be useless without the ability to fly into portals?

Well hey guess what? Other professions have to change their abilities JUST to counter thieves so why shouldn’t thieves have to adapt as well? I have to change all my utilities on my guardian, ranger, and warrior whenever a thief is around just to deal with their constant stealthing BS. And stealth has no counters besides that lame trap that rarely works that thieves STILL whine about and want removed from the game. And why should I have to change my skills to counter a thief’s broken stealth mechanic, which unlike vapor form has NO counters to it. And no, just swinging wildly and hoping to hit them while they are stealthed is not a counter to it. a counter should remove stealth. Thieves can counter eles and guardians by ripping boons off of us, we should be able to counter you by ripping stealth off of you. I could tell you were a thief right away just from your whiny posts. you always call for nerfs on everything rather than adapt to it and use the tools you have at your disposal.

Yuujin.1067:

Nikkinella.8254:

I don’t see what’s so silly about it. My point is you CAN stop it. If you choose not to, that’s your decision. It doesn’t need to be nerfed just because you don’t want to use the skills you have at your disposal. Why would you not bring some sort of cc ability with you in the first place when fighting near someone elses tower? That’s just common sense. You must main a thief because that’s their typical mentality. “I don’t want to adapt to what my enemy is capable of so nerf them so I can just use the same things I use on everyone I encounter and ensure my victory 100% of the time!”

I do main a thief. That means to counter it by myself I would need to stealth then shoot you with my shortbow, replace one of my signets with the immobilize venom or with an immobile trap. It is not a question of having to adapt to a situation so much as myself or any other profession and player having to sacrifice a utility slot or adopt a weapon set to counter one specific cheesy tactic that people like yourself seem fond of.

The idea that anyone should have to set up their utilities a certain way or use a specific set of weapons to counter Elementalist turning invincible and flying through a portal while downed is silly. You want other people to have to eat up valuable utility slots just to counter you getting downed and pressing 2.

The idea that you want other players to have to use skill to counter your lack of skill, then turn it around on them as if there is an issue with them and not yourself is exactly why this needs to change.

Caffynated.5713:

I’m sure they’ll eventually replace vapor form with an ability that instantly puts the ele in defeated state so they can respawn sooner. Of course, then whiners will complain that they can’t force eles to bleed out to waste time.

If it was a thief down skill, the response would be to just keep going and ignore them (this was literally an ANet response to unkillable (anywhere, ever) thieves).

Keep Vapor Form. Lose the ability to go through portals. Are you saying the skill would be useless without the ability to fly into portals?

I have to use a valuable 75s utility to stomp almost every profession, a thief from downed state still throw knifes hitting people for 2k dmg on top of crippling/poison them, plus thief can teleport and stealth within short amount of time once downed, the thief downed state is far more OP than anything else other professions can have.
This is another example of thief players who have been spoiled by Anet in thinking to have actuall skill, now you faceroll baddies even open a thread to whine about a single feature of an otherwise mediocre downed state…and all this because your little zerg can’t finish off a single silly ele who keep getting killed for no reason ,as I doubt a single enemy can stop your entire group…so what’s the point of your whining? the big bad ele is being a troll just like you are normally when perma stealthing and picking off inexperienced small groups one by one?

Nikkinella.8254:

Well hey guess what? Other professions have to change their abilities JUST to counter thieves so why shouldn’t thieves have to adapt as well? I have to change all my utilities on my guardian, ranger, and warrior whenever a thief is around just to deal with their constant stealthing BS. And stealth has no counters besides that lame trap that rarely works that thieves STILL whine about and want removed from the game. And why should I have to change my skills to counter a thief’s broken stealth mechanic, which unlike vapor form has NO counters to it. And no, just swinging wildly and hoping to hit them while they are stealthed is not a counter to it. a counter should remove stealth. Thieves can counter eles and guardians by ripping boons off of us, we should be able to counter you by ripping stealth off of you. I could tell you were a thief right away just from your whiny posts. you always call for nerfs on everything rather than adapt to it and use the tools you have at your disposal.

I gathered you dislike the Thief class as a whole based on your previous remarks in your other post.

This thread however is about Vapor Form allowing Elementalist to fly through portals and hide inside of their keeps to heal up. They are the only class that can do that and it can be accomplished with ease.

I don’t know of any skilled players who create utility and weapon layouts based on single profession. I can see you have trouble with Thieves and I’m sorry about that, but even in your own example you make my point. Even if a thief stealths and you have to wave around wildly to land a hit on them eventually they will show up, and they won’t have been able to pass through the portal into their keep. Once again, your opinion on how overpowered thieves are doesn’t apply to the topic at hand, which once again I will reiterate, Vapor Form allowing you to pass through portals to hide inside of keeps regardless of your current utility setup or weapon layout. You don’t have to set up your utility/weapons so we shouldn’t have to either. Plan and simple.

In that regard then I want them to remove stealth from thieves. I shouldn’t have to change my utilities to deal with thieves just like you shouldn’t have to change yours to deal with an ability which unlike stealth actually has a counter. If they nerf our one downed state ability that doesn’t completely suck then they need to buff the others. Its sad that even in downed state thief can still do more damage than ele can when they are still fully alive.