Guild Wars 2

Nikkinella.8254:

In that regard then I want them to remove stealth from thieves. I shouldn’t have to change my utilities to deal with thieves just like you shouldn’t have to change yours to deal with an ability which unlike stealth actually has a counter. If they nerf our one downed state ability that doesn’t completely suck then they need to buff the others. Its sad that even in downed state thief can still do more damage than ele can when they are still fully alive.

No one is asking for abilities to be removed. Have you even read this thread?

The proposal was to remove the ability for downed players using Vapor Form to pass through portals.

Tell you what though, we’ll remove the thief’s ability to go through portals while they are downed too to make it fair.

The equivalent would be stopping Shadowstep from being used when immobilized/stunned, and using it stops you from stealthing for 5 seconds.

Ele – best at escaping into keeps
Thieves – best at escaping in open fields.

Isn’t this the same?

At this point I’m pretty sure you’re either not reading the arguments, or are trolling. Seriously, the class with the best WvW escape, bar none (stealth), is complaining that someone can run a short distance into a keep if they aren’t immobilized?

Just ignore her posts, because there is nothing left to say.

Edit: Also, you didn’t reply to any of my posts. Probably because there isn’t anything you can say that would actually make sense in response.

This thread again? Cool, haven’t seen this one in a while.

Hey guys, this is GW2, and in GW2 there’s this thing called the “downed state”. When “downed” you are not yet “defeated” (dead). This is part of the game’s core combat mechanic.

Each profession has access to a different set of skills when “downed”, just like they have different skills when upright. Learning to use your own skills, learning which skills are good to have available, and learning to counter your enemy’s skills both in normal fighting and “downed state” are part of the process of “learning to play”.

The problem here is people thinking that “downed” is actually just a sort of pre-stage of “defeated”. It’s not.

The class with the lowest base health and defense has less room for error in normal combat (leaving aside arguably OP trait combos) which makes it only logical to have more room for error in the “downed” state. At the point where an elementalist goes down, any other class (similarly specced) will still have a couple thousand hitpoints left at the least, at which point they could run the same distance vapor form covers anyway.

If it seems OP, try to learn to counter it before calling for nerfs. If you ALREADY know how to counter it ‘cause a bajillion people in this thread and all the others like it have already said: “CC” and you refuse to do so, it’s YOUR OWN FAULT, not the game’s design.

This is just a thread about the thief entitlement complex and their refusal to put anything but all the super damage utilities on their bar.

Must be nice, I didn’t realize ele’s had utilities other then cantrips…

But how dare a class have something another does not. Clearly it must be nerfed our thief overlords have spoken. We must allow them to remain the undisputed kings of cheesy and skilless tactics.

This entire topic is hyperbolic and clearly made by someone who is angry they died involving a situation where an Elementalist went down but made it back inside.

Sunflowers.1729:

The equivalent would be stopping Shadowstep from being used when immobilized/stunned, and using it stops you from stealthing for 5 seconds.

Ele – best at escaping into keeps
Thieves – best at escaping in open fields.

Isn’t this the same?

At this point I’m pretty sure you’re either not reading the arguments, or are trolling. Seriously, the class with the best WvW escape, bar none (stealth), is complaining that someone can run a short distance into a keep if they aren’t immobilized?

Just ignore her posts, because there is nothing left to say.

Edit: Also, you didn’t reply to any of my posts. Probably because there isn’t anything you can say that would actually make sense in response.

Once again, you’re comparing thief utility, something that thieves have to place on their bar, with a spell that all Elementalist gain access to when they are downed. No one is suggesting it be removed for the game, the only suggestion has been while an Elementalist is in his downed state he cannot use Vapor Form to enter through portals.

Elementalist have the best mobility in the game. The developers have already said they want to bring thief mobility up more in line with Elementalist mobility so the fact that you keep bringing mobility up as a defense in this argument boggles my mind. This debate has nothing to do with mobility, it has to do with downed state Elementalist being able to enter portals when no other profession can do that from their downed state.

The reason I haven’t bothered to reply to any of your post is because you are clearly ignorant to the fact that has already been acknowledged by ANet. Since you’ve asked me to respond directly to you, I will.

Shadowstep does not remove immobilize directly. It clears stuns. You have to use Shadow Return to remove conditions off of you. This puts you back in the location you were previously in before you used Shadowstep. If you have more than three conditions on you, there is no guarantee that you will actually remove the immobilize from you. Even if you do, you’ve just Shadow Returned to where you were standing previously so that’s zero mobility.

Shadow Refuge requires you to stand in a medium sized circle, clearly outlined for your enemies to see, until it ends to receive 11 seconds of stealth. While I agree the duration of stealth it allows is pretty excessive, these days most WvW and sPvP players have figured out that if a thief is silly enough to drop it on themselves in PvP and try to wait out its full duration, you can just run around and kill them. It has become one of the least effective ways of stealthing.

Strangely enough, neither of those abilities allows a thief to dive into a situation where he is outnumbered, die, and then retreat backs inside of his keep to safely heal himself out of his downed state. Come to think of it! They occupy utility slots and you lose then when you die.

Strange, comparing utility to downstate skills. Maybe that’s why I didn’t bother to respond to you, because none of this actually has to do with the issue that was being presented.

And you can’t possibly be that blind. Watch a roaming thief video or get out and PvP in Tier 3 or above. Thieves always roam with Elementalist because they have insane mobility and burst potential. It is almost a staple these days for dedicated roaming duos.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Downed_penalty

Yuujin.1067:

The reason I haven’t bothered to reply to any of your post is because you are clearly ignorant to the fact that has already been acknowledged by ANet. Since you’ve asked me to respond directly to you, I will.

Proof?

Yuujin.1067:

Strangely enough, neither of those abilities allows a thief to dive into a situation where he is outnumbered, die, and then retreat backs inside of his keep to safely heal himself out of his downed state. Come to think of it! They occupy utility slots and you lose then when you die.

Strangely enough, it lets me do just that, and I don’t even have to die to use it. You gotta see how many times I try to 1v3 on my Thief, fail (because obviously it is 1v3), and get away scot free.

The only thing in your argument that remotely makes sense is that Shadowstep takes a utility slot. Are we comparing characters without utility slots now? D/D Ele is now the worst class ever, gotta buff them more.

I’m done here. You are obviously unable to comprehend any argument, so talking any more with you is futile. Hope the patch hits you hard!

Edit: oh and

Yuujin.1067:

And you can’t possibly be that blind. Watch a roaming thief video or get out and PvP in Tier 3 or above. Thieves always roam with Elementalist because they have insane mobility and burst potential. It is almost a staple these days for dedicated roaming duos.

I roam solo on my Thief in T2 just fine, thank you very much. And your last sentence really calls your credibility into question. Do you even WvW? Count how many Thieves you see, then how many Elementalists.

Did you really just say ele’s have the highest mobility?… are we playing the same game? When’s the last time you actually played an elementalist. Because thiefs already had higher mobility then an ele pre-rtl nerf.. nerf. Meaning back when it was on a 15 second cd with 1500 range.

Sorry dude but you lost all credibility there, not that you had any to begin with. Thief’s are in a league of their own in terms of mobility there isn’t a single class in the game that can keep up with them when they try. And please provide citations for anet ever claiming eles have the highest mobility in the game. Oh and for the record any mention of mobility anet ever made about ele’s was in regards to spvp. A completely irrelevant and totally different animal.

You honestly sound like a pretty terrible thief. It took me all of 15 minutes on my thief to figure out how to exploit all their mobility tricks especially shadow step. which is pretty evident you have no clue how to use. Thiefs can disengage from fights at will, any half competent thief can dive into a huge group and get away scott free.

Maybe you should spend less time complaining in the forums about a marginal advantage eles have in WvW and use that time to learn how to play your class. Because after reading your posts, you are very clearly doing it wrong.

I’ve read this whole thread, and I still cannot get over it.

Whether you be a thief or not, really doesn’t matter because now I have to question your actual skill level. Are you upset because an Ele got away, thereby costing you a loot bag? Were you 1v1 against an Ele next to his territory? If so, then you made a bad judgment call. You fought on his home turf, not yours. So of course he is going to get away.

Get over it.

The down state is there to help the player extend their life in various situations before eventually dying. Not all down states work in the same situation. And not, comparatively speaking, most classes don’t go into a downstate as often as an ele. Vapor form is obviously intended for the ele to get to safety. In the open field, that is back with her party, if she isn’t solo roaming. While defending on the rampart, its back inside their keep.

Whether it is cheap, or not, is a matter of opinion. The skill is meant to give Elementalist a chance to survive (run away), and where better than outside his own front door.

Sunflowers.1729:

Yuujin.1067:

The reason I haven’t bothered to reply to any of your post is because you are clearly ignorant to the fact that has already been acknowledged by ANet. Since you’ve asked me to respond directly to you, I will.

Proof?

Yuujin.1067:

Strangely enough, neither of those abilities allows a thief to dive into a situation where he is outnumbered, die, and then retreat backs inside of his keep to safely heal himself out of his downed state. Come to think of it! They occupy utility slots and you lose then when you die.

Strangely enough, it lets me do just that, and I don’t even have to die to use it.

I’m done here. You are obviously unable to comprehend any argument, so talking any more with you is futile. Hope the patch hits you hard!

59:40 onward comparing Thief mobility to Elementalist mobility. Continue on, to 1:00:15.

As for you being done, good. You have your own argument you want to bring to the forums, but it has nothing to do with what is being discussed in this thread.

Elementalist have the best mobility in the game.

[/quote]

You lost all credibility you MIGHT have had right there. Even before all the massive nerfs, ele NEVER had the best mobility in the game. We were always below thieves, rangers and warriors if all 3 were specced for mobility. Most eles do spec for mobility because we have to thanks to our crappy stats. Thieves who don’t know how to play and spec only for damage and refuse to bring any type of CC abilities to battle kitten ed and moaned till they nerfed us to the point where we are now tied with necros and engineers on mobility. Eles having the best mobility was a myth created by bad thieves who refuse to spec to be mobile with CC yet expect to catch a mobile specced ele who can CC them.

Yuujin.1067:

Sunflowers.1729:

Yuujin.1067:

The reason I haven’t bothered to reply to any of your post is because you are clearly ignorant to the fact that has already been acknowledged by ANet. Since you’ve asked me to respond directly to you, I will.

Proof?

Yuujin.1067:

Strangely enough, neither of those abilities allows a thief to dive into a situation where he is outnumbered, die, and then retreat backs inside of his keep to safely heal himself out of his downed state. Come to think of it! They occupy utility slots and you lose then when you die.

Strangely enough, it lets me do just that, and I don’t even have to die to use it.

I’m done here. You are obviously unable to comprehend any argument, so talking any more with you is futile. Hope the patch hits you hard!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCUvIrH2BlU

59:40 onward comparing Thief mobility to Elementalist mobility. Continue on, to 1:00:15.

As for you being done, good. You have your own argument you want to bring to the forums, but it has nothing to do with what is being discussed in this thread.

They are talking about sPvP. Did you not even watch the video?

Yuujin.1067:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCUvIrH2BlU

59:40 onward comparing Thief mobility to Elementalist mobility. Continue on, to 1:00:15.

As for you being done, good. You have your own argument you want to bring to the forums, but it has nothing to do with what is being discussed in this thread.

And then RTL was nerfed so…? What’s your point?

Oh and you must be a very terrible thief if you cant win against more than 3-5 people at a time. Which in itself says how overpowered a thief is. An ele can harass 10 people at once but never kill a single one of them, just annoy them till they give up and we run away. Thieves can actually down and kill those same 10 people. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ecl8d0TQGQ

Nikkinella.8254:

You lost all credibility you MIGHT have had right there. Even before all the massive nerfs, ele NEVER had the best mobility in the game. We were always below thieves, rangers and warriors if all 3 were specced for mobility. Most eles do spec for mobility because we have to thanks to our crappy stats. Thieves who don’t know how to play and spec only for damage and refuse to bring any type of CC abilities to battle kitten ed and moaned till they nerfed us to the point where we are now tied with necros and engineers on mobility. Eles having the best mobility was a myth created by bad thieves who refuse to spec to be mobile with CC yet expect to catch a mobile specced ele who can CC them.

Even with the increase on Ride the Lightning, you guys still have access to additional mobility oriented skills and swiftness more often than a thief. Thieves have not seen any increase to their mobility since March and you guys got an extra 20 seconds stamped onto Ride the Lightning.

Tossing this in, to boot, the change to Ride the Lightning came after the outcry of Ellie bombs with the guaranteed crit utility blowing up in peoples faces, throwing an extra 20 seconds onto the cooldown and knocking it down to have the same range as Shadowstep without reducing the travel speed. Oh, and you guys still have a teleport, Fiery Greatsword utility, burning speed, invulnerability in Mist Form, I mean I can keep going if you guys want to pretend you don’t have excellent mobility.

I play an Elementalist you know.

After reading some of these responses, I can see you guys need to keep Vapor Form. Not because it requires skill to use, or its fair, or anything else for that matter, but because it’s clear you need it.

Yuujin.1067:

Nikkinella.8254:

You lost all credibility you MIGHT have had right there. Even before all the massive nerfs, ele NEVER had the best mobility in the game. We were always below thieves, rangers and warriors if all 3 were specced for mobility. Most eles do spec for mobility because we have to thanks to our crappy stats. Thieves who don’t know how to play and spec only for damage and refuse to bring any type of CC abilities to battle kitten ed and moaned till they nerfed us to the point where we are now tied with necros and engineers on mobility. Eles having the best mobility was a myth created by bad thieves who refuse to spec to be mobile with CC yet expect to catch a mobile specced ele who can CC them.

Even with the increase on Ride the Lightning, you guys still have access to additional mobility oriented skills and swiftness more often than a thief. Thieves have not seen any increase to their mobility since March and you guys got an extra 20 seconds stamped onto Ride the Lightning.

After reading some of these responses, I can see you guys need to keep Vapor Form. Not because it requires skill to use, or its fair, or anything else for that matter, but because it’s clear you need it.

Roll an Ele and level it to 80 for wvw. Do it. I dare you.

You’ll realize that the so called “King of Mobility” sits on an empty throne of lies.

And if by chance, you’ve been outrun by an ele . I think you need to rethink how you play your thief. In other words, L2P.

Yuujin.1067:

I do main a thief. …

…You want other people to have to eat up valuable utility slots just to counter you getting downed and pressing 2.

Does anyone else find it ironic that a Thief is complaining that someone can “just hit 2”?

Yuujin.1067:

Nikkinella.8254:

You lost all credibility you MIGHT have had right there. Even before all the massive nerfs, ele NEVER had the best mobility in the game. We were always below thieves, rangers and warriors if all 3 were specced for mobility. Most eles do spec for mobility because we have to thanks to our crappy stats. Thieves who don’t know how to play and spec only for damage and refuse to bring any type of CC abilities to battle kitten ed and moaned till they nerfed us to the point where we are now tied with necros and engineers on mobility. Eles having the best mobility was a myth created by bad thieves who refuse to spec to be mobile with CC yet expect to catch a mobile specced ele who can CC them.

Even with the increase on Ride the Lightning, you guys still have access to additional mobility oriented skills and swiftness more often than a thief. Thieves have not seen any increase to their mobility since March and you guys got an extra 20 seconds stamped onto Ride the Lightning.

After reading some of these responses, I can see you guys need to keep Vapor Form. Not because it requires skill to use, or its fair, or anything else for that matter, but because it’s clear you need it.

And yet there isn’t a single class who can keep up with a thief in wvw if they actually try to be mobile. WvW =/= spvp. Stop being terrible at this game. An ele escaped from your super glass heart seeker spam into a keep with vapor form and denied you a bag. Get over it.

Oh and thieves don’t have access to a ton of other mobility skills if they spec for it? I have a thief too buddy and I’ve NEVER had an ele outrun me even before all the nerfs. But unlike you i’m not an obnoxious child who refuses to adapt to what my opponent has available to them and I do change my skills to counter what they do. You just want everything handed to you on a silver platter like most thieves. I can’t even stand using my thief anymore and its just a bank mule for town clothes and stacks of crafting materials. The thief community disgusts me right now. a bunch of entitled whiny crybabies who want everyone to change to make things easier for them. Like it isn’t easy enough already.

Thieves have a ton of mobility too. My point is you guys aren’t hurting for mobility. As for WvWing on an Elementalist, as I pointed out I do. However, I do not run a mobility oriented spec and I stick primarily to groups so I don’t run into issues where I need to run away that often.

I’m well aware of the dangers of roaming and while I’ve come across my fair share of Thief and Elementalist duos in the past, I’ve never found a need to actually run away from them because I don’t wander alone.

I get a ton of enjoyment out of my Engineer too in WvW which has a ton more surviability but a lot less mobility than my Thief and Elementalist. I’m a little iffy on my Necromancer though. I don’t enjoy playing him in PvP as much but that might just be because he’s condition specced and I’m not a condition person.

So throwing in the mobility argument as the reason why you should be able to be the only class who can suicide in front of a tower/keep/garrison then Vapor Form back in through the portal isn’t cutting it. We’re not talking about mobility, we’re talking about an Elementalist only mechanic that allows you to nuke siege, flee back into your keep after being downed, heal up, rinse and repeat.

And once again, CC them and they won’t do it. It shouldn’t have to be changed just because a few bads refuse to adapt. It’s like trying to explain to a 2 year old not to touch the stove because it’s hot. geez.

Nikkinella.8254:

And once again, CC them and they won’t do it. It shouldn’t have to be changed just because a few bads refuse to adapt. It’s like trying to explain to a 2 year old not to touch the stove because it’s hot. geez.

At least we’re back on topic.

So you believe that the answer to a Elementalist only mechanic is “Switch out utility and change your playstyle so that when cheesy Elementalist use this tactic during siege you have the utility available to CC them so they can’t get back inside”?

I mean, I’m not going to lie, there is always a certain sense of satisfaction associated with killing an Elementalist right outside of his portal, and I’m sure as Elementalist you’ve dealt with that frustration yourselves. It’s what every other profession goes through, except unlike you guys, once we’re downed we’re done.

You have the option to use the utility. If you don’t, then you have made your choice. If I want to kill a guardian (engineer, warrior, ranger) before his team nukes me down, I have to use a utility (Armor of Earth) for the stability.

Why should you have to be able to kill me without working for it?

Asurmir.7956:

You have the option to use the utility. If you don’t, then you have made your choice. If I want to kill a guardian (engineer, warrior, ranger) before his team nukes me down, I have to use a utility (Armor of Earth) for the stability.

Why should you have to be able to kill me without working for it?

It is a fair point. I think what it really comes down to is you don’t have to do anything in this case as an Elementalist. You just get downed, hit 2, and you’re back inside your keep healing up. Every other profession in this situation is done for. If there is a zerg at your doorstep and you get downed as any other profession, you’re dead.

The Elementalist is the only profession that can just hit two and float back inside through a portal.

The legwork for every other profession in the game is killing them before they get into the portal. With Elementalist, it is killing them before they get into the portal -and- immobilizing them so they can’t just float back inside of it.

Sure, a thief can run by stealthed but they still take damage from all the AE focused on the doors. Professions, including the Elementalist, can simply pop invulnerability and run through if they are trying to get inside.

However, the Elementalist is still the only Profession that can intentionally suicide and float back inside with limited repercussions. As far as I am aware, and this has never happened to me before, once I go down and hit my Vapor Form, I can’t be immobilized. It has to occur before I pop invulnerability.

Yuujin.1067:

The Elementalist is the only profession that can just hit two and float back inside through a portal.

The legwork for every other profession in the game is killing them before they get into the portal. With Elementalist, it is killing them before they get into the portal -and- immobilizing them so they can’t just float back inside of it.

Sure, a thief can run by stealthed but they still take damage from all the AE focused on the doors. Professions, including the Elementalist, can simply pop invulnerability and run through if they are trying to get inside.

However, the Elementalist is still the only Profession that can intentionally suicide and float back inside with limited repercussions. As far as I am aware, and this has never happened to me before, once I go down and hit my Vapor Form, I can’t be immobilized. It has to occur before I pop invulnerability.

usually it is impossible to immobilze an ele down state. down 2 is practically an instant

i am actually against a nerf to ele down state beacuse the rest of the skills are garbage

los for defenders is kidda crappy

i rather have anet fix that first than an ele down state unless these ele buffs are game changing

this comment from an guy who wanted a rtl nerf

Technically speaking if he’s downed he’s not dead. You didn’t kill him. You got him close to death but he pulled a last minute escape attempt and succeeded.

Downed is not Defeated.

And for the record. I’d say it takes more skill to jump down from the wall, burst a group of people and carefully position yourself so when you go down you’re close enough to the door to escape. You know, despite the myriad of knock-backs, stuns, pulls, and snares that will immediately be blown all over your face the second you come into range.

More skill than, say, spamming attack buttons while vastly outnumbering the elementalist and being in a place of complete and utter safety, that’s for sure.

We shouldn’t be discouraging the creative use of abilities. It takes away from tactics and strategies that can be used and makes the game less dynamic and interesting.

This topic is absurd every time it’s brought up.

1. Almost every Ele you encounter will be rocking Mist Form meaning you’d think people would be used to people doing Mist Form -> Downed -> Vapor Form by now. This crutch is so heavily leaned upon there’s almost no excuse not to anticipate it.

2. With a 5 hard cap on almost all abilities no class is going to run in and “kitten up a zerg.” At most they might, maybe, somehow, mess up 5 people but a zerg will largely remain intact.

3. Since we can eliminate the zerg even being remotely effected by this, why the kitten are you fighting near an enemy tower? I mean ignoring Vapor Form, it’s super easy for many classes to just duck back inside when they are in trouble. You’re putting yourself in a bad situation by fighting the enemy on their home turf where they got the advantage. Your poor decisions should not determine game balance.

4. The entire thing is countered with Immobilize. As pointed out everyone has an immobilize and they are often times on the usual builds people have/play.

Every time this topic comes up it’s usually some stealth play thief who was hanging around in enemy territory and ends up losing a kill on an Elementalist cause they got back inside a friendly tower before dying. They have the most awkward of all the immobilize skills (stealth required or bring a under used utility that doesn’t fit neatly into many builds) and are most vulnerable to this.

I’d like to say I feel bad for said thieves but then I remember they deal stupid amounts of damage on demand and completely stop caring.

Ehecatl.9172:

We shouldn’t be discouraging the creative use of abilities. It takes away from tactics and strategies that can be used and makes the game less dynamic and interesting.

Well said.

Yuujin.1067:

At least we’re back on topic.

So you believe that the answer to a Elementalist only mechanic is “Switch out utility and change your playstyle so that when cheesy Elementalist use this tactic during siege you have the utility available to CC them so they can’t get back inside”?

Yes. I’m sorry but both in Mobas and MMOs I have to switch my skills depending on a situation.
In regards to GW2: you can’t run a permanent build in dungeons nor in WvW. To be good at your class you actually have to adapt. When you’re asked for stealth in dungeons, you give stealth, when you need to immobilize, you immobilize, if you don’t adapt, then don’t be surprised that you can’t kill someone who did adapt.
In regards to games like Smite: I love going for a damager build in matches while playing tanks. Last time I played Vulcan I had to sacrifice my ability to kill efficiently just not to feed, hence for survival I had to go with magical protection and slows. The enemy team lost and the ones that were in our lane got blamed for it. Me and my friend had to explain that it’s not the players fault, but we were specking to be hard counters while they didn’t spec to adapt.
In short – in any competitive game a stagnant build will be the end of you.

Mirta.5029:

Yuujin.1067:

At least we’re back on topic.

So you believe that the answer to a Elementalist only mechanic is “Switch out utility and change your playstyle so that when cheesy Elementalist use this tactic during siege you have the utility available to CC them so they can’t get back inside”?

Yes. I’m sorry but both in Mobas and MMOs I have to switch my skills depending on a situation.
In regards to GW2: you can’t run a permanent build in dungeons nor in WvW. To be good at your class you actually have to adapt. When you’re asked for stealth in dungeons, you give stealth, when you need to immobilize, you immobilize, if you don’t adapt, then don’t be surprised that you can’t kill someone who did adapt.
In regards to games like Smite: I love going for a damager build in matches while playing tanks. Last time I played Vulcan I had to sacrifice my ability to kill efficiently just not to feed, hence for survival I had to go with magical protection and slows. The enemy team lost and the ones that were in our lane got blamed for it. Me and my friend had to explain that it’s not the players fault, but we were specking to be hard counters while they didn’t spec to adapt.
In short – in any competitive game a stagnant build will be the end of you.

WELL SAID!!!
There is no one trick pony. Elementalists are to be a jack of all traits not stuck into dps or healing or tanking. We got a little bit of everything. Mist form and an immobilize while downed are a couple of ’m.

Be glad that thieves actually have the option of specializing in something unlike eles. We’re stuck at being mediocre at everything equally and if we try to specialize in something, our role could easily be filled by one of the other classes who will be twice as good at it as we will. We have decent healing and condition removal which is great for dungeons for example, but hey guardian is leagues ahead of us in that regard and can have nearly as much dps as a warrior to go with that. Despite all the bad things we have going for us though, and all the constant unjustified nerfs we keep getting because of bads who refuse to adapt and learn how it works even when we offer tips on how to counter all our abilities, its still my favorite class to play as. No other class keeps my on my toes as much as ele does. You have to pay attention to what you’re doing constantly or you’re dead. It keeps things interesting.

Answer about ranger traps: they don’t trigger on downed enemies.

Mirta.5029:

Yuujin.1067:

At least we’re back on topic.

So you believe that the answer to a Elementalist only mechanic is “Switch out utility and change your playstyle so that when cheesy Elementalist use this tactic during siege you have the utility available to CC them so they can’t get back inside”?

Yes. I’m sorry but both in Mobas and MMOs I have to switch my skills depending on a situation.
In regards to GW2: you can’t run a permanent build in dungeons nor in WvW. To be good at your class you actually have to adapt. When you’re asked for stealth in dungeons, you give stealth, when you need to immobilize, you immobilize, if you don’t adapt, then don’t be surprised that you can’t kill someone who did adapt.
In regards to games like Smite: I love going for a damager build in matches while playing tanks. Last time I played Vulcan I had to sacrifice my ability to kill efficiently just not to feed, hence for survival I had to go with magical protection and slows. The enemy team lost and the ones that were in our lane got blamed for it. Me and my friend had to explain that it’s not the players fault, but we were specking to be hard counters while they didn’t spec to adapt.
In short – in any competitive game a stagnant build will be the end of you.

Well, since we’ve arrived at this point, back on topic but while continuing to focus on the ‘there is a way to counter it’ point, I’d just like to bring a few things to your attention.

1) Existing conditions fall off of you upon death.
2) Like most (If not all) skills that occupy the two slot, Vapor Form is available immediately the moment you are put into the downed state.
3) During the time between falling and your first two skills becoming active you cannot take damage or receive conditions.

So I entertained this notion that there was a way to ‘counter it’ because the goal was to get you all to unanimously agree on that. We argued that this was a ‘skill issue’ so you could present an argument that suggested that because there was a way for us to stop this from happening it should be allowed.

A few of you have probably saved your Vapor Form to interrupt a stomp (Get that invuln!) so you think that you can be immobilized, but you can activate it right upon death.

Unfortunately, a few of you decided to ramble off about how underpowered the Elementalist was and how crappy their mobility was, but now that we’ve arrived back on topic, let’s discuss this.

There is no way to counter Vapor Forming into a portal if the player spams 2 upon death.

Commence new argument. I’m interested in hearing what it is.

And before you call troll, you all knew full well this was the case even though you’ve been trying to sell this load that it is a skill issue.

Yuuijn, a thief asking for ele nerfs? Seriously? While we are at it, Anet, remove Shadow refuge from thiefs (the way thiefs get into keeps). Why would you have the right to enter via utility skills, and we not from downed state? If they remove vapor form then make it a trait, when you fall 25% you get vapor form. Would you like it then more? Cause then it’s a copy of shadow refuge as both are not used in downed state.

Thiefs have the best escapes in the game, and this guy is complaining about the most squishy profession in game (yes more squishy then thiefs, low armor vs medium). Yuuijn is not to be taken seriously. He already has a cakewalk on this profession in wvw, and wants it EVEN MORE EASY. Crazy to even consider it.

I guess you don’t know entagle, line of warding, ring of warding, fearing an ele away from portal, chilling, life transfer (true walls when ele is downed inside, should kill him).

Anet while you are at it nerf backstab. There’s no single other instant cast skill, with this crazy damage multiplier. Why can thiefs kill someone in two skill strikes while other professions need at least 5 skills. Is thief fair? perhaps not. But there is a bigger pictures. Every prof has ups and downs. Every profession has stuff that some people consider overpowered.

I hate the sound of pistal/rifle legendaries. Should Anet remove them because it irritates me? Nope. Should Anet listen to a single thief, who wants more overpowerdness cause he lacks the ability to kill an elementalist? nope. It’s probably the only situation where you cant finish someone as thief. No stealth stomping (while we are at it, nerf it plz anet, only thiefs can do this , and since only ele’s can enter portals while downed, thiefs should not be able to do this either as only prof).

For those who don’t get it the ‘nerf thiefs please’ is ironic. Just as the nerf Ele’s is in my opinion.

If you want to kill the game, listen to this guy. Otherwise draw your conclusions. In my opinion, Thief has the least right to speak from all the professions, about enemy profession nerfs.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

If you want to kill the game, listen to this guy. Otherwise draw your conclusions. In my opinion, Thief has the least right to speak from all the professions, about enemy profession nerfs.

Yeah! Kill the game by making Elementalist unable to go through portals while in Vapor Form once they are downed.

Grrrr, destroying the game!

If you want that nerfed, I want Stealth stomping nerfed. It should reveal the player while casting F or when finished. Now the player NEVER get revealed. That is even ironic cause normally every action reveals a thief. So anet, if vapor form gets nerfed, please nerf Stealth stomping.

And while we are at it, Thief is the only profession that can get massive healing boost while inside downed state. Since others can’t do it, it is unfair and should be nerfed. Being hidden, and healing yourself is op, so please nerf it.

Thief is the only profession with 2 stomp interrupts. While we are at it, nerf this too Anet. reason: others can’t do it.

Bad nerf calls are bad nerf calls.

‘and no we are not destroying game, you see the op backstab is still there, so counter argument is not allowed’. Voila my simple request, is so fair Anet will for sure listen to me.

Nooooooooot. Every profession has his own set of tricks to keep himself alive. Wether it’s in downed or in ‘alive’ state, everyone has something, and it has been split between downed/alive state, to keep variation in place and balance the game out.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

If you want that nerfed, I want Stealth stomping nerfed. It should reveal the player while casting F or when finished. Now the player NEVER get revealed. That is even ironic cause normally every action reveals a thief. So anet, if vapor form gets nerfed, please nerf Stealth stomping.

And while we are at it, Thief is the only profession that can get massive healing boost while inside downed state. Since others can’t do it, it is unfair and should be nerfed. Being hidden, and healing yourself is op, so please nerf it.

Thief is the only profession with 2 stomp interrupts. While we are at it, nerf this too Anet. reason: others can’t do it.

Bad nerf calls are bad nerf calls.

‘and no we are not destroying game, you see the op backstab is still there, so counter argument is not allowed’. Voila my simple request, is so fair Anet will for sure listen to me.

Nooooooooot. Every profession has his own set of tricks to keep himself alive. Wether it’s in downed or in ‘alive’ state, everyone has something, and it has been split between downed/alive state, to keep variation in place and balance the game out.

Sure! And while we’re at it, let’s nerf stability stomps too! If you have a knockdown skill in your downed state and you use it on a person who has stability on, it should go through stability!

Wait a second. I’m starting to see a pattern here. More than one profession can stealth stomp… and stability through knockdowns… but Elementalist are the only class able to Vapor Form through portals while downed.

Yuujin.1067:

1) Existing conditions fall off of you upon death.

Not true with Immobilize, all the times when I was immobilized I stayed immobilized after entering downed state.

Yuujin.1067:

3) During the time between falling and your first two skills becoming active you cannot take damage or receive conditions.

yet you can successfully immobilize before that moment.

Yuujin.1067:

There is no way to counter Vapor Forming into a portal if the player spams 2 upon death.

And yet other people have pointed out to you that they can kill elementalists no problem and that 1. you should learn to immob 2. shouldn’t ambush so close to keeps. Yet you continue going on about your crusade to rofflestomp people without putting in any thought.

Yuujin.1067:

Wait a second. I’m starting to see a pattern here. More than one profession can stealth stomp…

actually no, only thieves can do it. I demand a nerf, because classes can’t have unique skills!

It is clearly a learn to play & a learn to read issue.
You`ve been told how to stop them going back in.
If you`re having problems doing so even after all this, I suggest you just quit crying, because you`re just plain bad.
I`ve a level 22 thief & can stop ele`s with ease whether in downed or up & running about.
Anyhow, you`re obviously trolling, reported.

Mirta.5029:

Yuujin.1067:

1) Existing conditions fall off of you upon death.

Not true with Immobilize, all the times when I was immobilized I stayed immobilized after entering downed state.

Except it is. If you are being immobilized, it means you are not hitting 2 fast enough.

Mirta.5029:

Yuujin.1067:

3) During the time between falling and your first two skills becoming active you cannot take damage or receive conditions.

yet you can successfully immobilize before that moment.

Except, no, you can’t. See above. You are reacting too slowly.

Mirta.5029:

Yuujin.1067:

There is no way to counter Vapor Forming into a portal if the player spams 2 upon death.

And yet other people have pointed out to you that they can kill elementalists no problem and that 1. you should learn to immob 2. shouldn’t ambush so close to keeps. Yet you continue going on about your crusade to rofflestomp people without putting in any thought.

Actually, they haven’t. They’ve just proven that they will pretend that something takes more skill (Or in this case any skill) than it actually does to pull off to make themselves feel like they are ‘good players’.

Mirta.5029:

Yuujin.1067:

Wait a second. I’m starting to see a pattern here. More than one profession can stealth stomp…

actually no, only thieves can do it. I demand a nerf, because classes can’t have unique skills!

Other classes have access to stealth and I have on more than one occasion stealth stomped people on my Elementalist and Engineer due to AE stealth spells.

Fishbait.6723:

It is clearly a learn to play & a learn to read issue.
You`ve been told how to stop them going back in.
If you`re having problems doing so even after all this, I suggest you just quit crying, because you`re just plain bad.
I`ve a level 22 thief & can stop ele`s with ease whether in downed or up & running about.
Anyhow, you`re obviously trolling, reported.

Oh I see, now it is a case of having to pull them away from the portal so they can’t Vapor Form back in. Interesting. So rather than Elementalist being the only class that can pass through portals while in downed state, now they are the only class you have to pull away from the portal entrance leading into a tower or keep before you kill them.

While you are at it make Vapor Form not give 2 stacks of Downed Penalty please. It sucks getting killed by one of your own skills…

Yuujin.1067:

Other classes have access to stealth and I have on more than one occasion stealth stomped people on my Elementalist and Engineer due to AE stealth spells.

So stealth doesn’t count because thieves can aoe stealth? You want elementalists to AoE vapor form then? Fair enough! ^^

Are you guys still discussing against a single thief? I find this extremely ridiculous, he’s just spurring you guys in giving more attention to this useless thread, let this thread die already, nothing good will come out of it

Yuujin.1067:

snip

Lol, thank you so much for this post. I had been thinking the exact same thing. Anyways, on topic: The whole argument is that vapor form is The only downed skill (that is ready as soon as you are down) that has the ability to port through doors
Keep vapor form exactly the same, just restrict it from bypassing doors, like thief or a mesmer by coincidence. That way everybody is happy, ele’s just cannot suicide in front of their tower or keep anymore. The mist form will still be able to bypass it, that is only fair. All the mobility issues have nothing to do with it. If you don’t want to have it changed, naturally I will assume this is because you actively use it. Also, the warrior ability is way different, firstly because the warrior has to stay alive untill his third ability pops up. Which he, if he is against a zerg, will never survive. And secondly, because even if he survives this time he will die once inside, and he is not invulnerable so he can be stunned, knocked back feared etc to stop him from reaching the door.
About thieves being able to shadowstep and immediatly stealth: all the CD’s for the third downed ability are the same. This is a dumb argument, if a thief goes down, start stomping him (you can also blink/teleport/lightning flash towards him when he shadowsteps) and if he shadowsteps just break it off and you are easily on time to secure the stomp.

Note: Yes, I do play an elementalist.

Mirta.5029:

Yuujin.1067:

Other classes have access to stealth and I have on more than one occasion stealth stomped people on my Elementalist and Engineer due to AE stealth spells.

So stealth doesn’t count because thieves can aoe stealth? You want elementalists to AoE vapor form then? Fair enough! ^^

Any class can stealth without a thief, mesmers because they have utilities for it, the other classes by using a leap finisher (stealth for only him) or blast finisher (ele has lots of those, area stealth) on a smoke field, which is not restricted to the thieves number 5 ability on its pistol.

Dear Anet,

Make game easier for me.

Love,
Scrub.

This thread became a discussion about the comparison of the thief and elementalist mobility. This thread is for debating the vapor skill, whether or not it is unfair to be the only skill (and warriors vengeance mode) to go through the fort portal. Solution to this would be a better script to disable that possibility. This has nothing to do with a players skill level nor sacrifices to utility slots. It also has nothing to do with open field battles. Thank you.

Aeranima.2853:

This thread became a discussion about the comparison of the thief and elementalist mobility. This thread is for debating the vapor skill, whether or not it is unfair to be the only skill (and warriors vengeance mode) to go through the fort portal. Solution to this would be a better script to disable that possibility. This has nothing to do with a players skill level nor sacrifices to utility slots. It also has nothing to do with open field battles. Thank you.

It does, because the other person’s argument was that ‘Vapor form has no counter’. So I replied that the disengaging ability of the Thief, much more usable in a variety of encounters (as well as being usable without dying), has even less of a counter.

If one can exist in its’ current state with no way to stop it, then the other deserves to as well.

Vapor form is literally all we have when downed.. the other skill is terrible and won’t interrupt a dunk. Most other classes have a way to interrupt a dunk, warrior has 2, thief has 2, mesmer has 2.

Ele has 1, vapor form.