Guild Wars 2

How squishy is the zerker staff build in dungeons when compared to other zerker builds in other professions, like a glass sword/focus Guardian and whatnot?

Would love some detail feedback on this. Thanks.

I’m going to use the following zerk staff build in my comparisons: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/The-Ele-Meta-Dungeon-Speed-Runs/first#post3112688

Zerk staff ele is FAR squishier than zerk guard, which you mentioned. Why? Because your standard zerk guard is 10/30/0/5/25, has perma-vigor, has 3x blinds from sword 2, focus 4, and f1, has a shield from focus 5, has aegis from f3, and has condi removal from f2. That doesn’t even take into account all the survivability-traits a guard usually carries (WoR, PF, HG, SYG, Retreat, etc). A guard is also, of course, heavy armor.

Zerk staff ele is far squishier than zerk war. Why? Because war’s are heavy armor, have stupid-high health, and have an OP healing sig.

Zerk staff ele is squishier than zerk mes. Why? Because your standard zerk mes has 1x sword evade on a shortened CD, 1x sword block on a shortened CD, 2x focus reflects on a shortened CD, Feedback on a shortened CD, 2x stab via a mantra, 2x cleanses via a mantra, an f4 invuln, and perma vigor.

Hey!, but we have 4 attunes right?.

To be fair zerk 2h warrior has to be on top of boss to deal damage. Also Guardian. My staff has 1200 range all I have to do is dodge a couple of aoe and I’ll be fine. I can’t count how many warriors I ress that get rolf stomped just because they wanted to deal tons of dmg with 2.

Also staff has lots of cc well played you can kite a mob good. I mean water 4, air 3/5 earth 4/5, fire 4. Perma vigor with that build you posted. Perma vigor and we are not even in melee range.

As a dps staff you must stay in fire, so in fact you virtually have only one attunement.
You must also stay within 600 range of your targets to trigger stone splinters, and you may have to stand within blast combo radius of your target (360) to benefit from your party’s boons.

What about when comparing it to zerker, Sword/Warhorn Ranger?
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Also, this DPS Ele build uses the vigor on crit and it seems to do massive damage.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKmo4FsMxPM

Anierna.6918:

I’m going to use the following zerk staff build in my comparisons: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/The-Ele-Meta-Dungeon-Speed-Runs/first#post3112688

Zerk staff ele is FAR squishier than zerk guard, which you mentioned. Why? Because your standard zerk guard is 10/30/0/5/25, has perma-vigor, has 3x blinds from sword 2, focus 4, and f1, has a shield from focus 5, has aegis from f3, and has condi removal from f2. That doesn’t even take into account all the survivability-traits a guard usually carries (WoR, PF, HG, SYG, Retreat, etc). A guard is also, of course, heavy armor.

Zerk staff ele is far squishier than zerk war. Why? Because war’s are heavy armor, have stupid-high health, and have an OP healing sig.

Zerk staff ele is squishier than zerk mes. Why? Because your standard zerk mes has 1x sword evade on a shortened CD, 1x sword block on a shortened CD, 2x focus reflects on a shortened CD, Feedback on a shortened CD, 2x stab via a mantra, 2x cleanses via a mantra, an f4 invuln, and perma vigor.

I was thinking about using a build like this:
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http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-k;4R0VU0v47NFZ0;9;4T999956A5;05;05;05;06;2R;0udbTudbTn-k51;2Fb-V1-60B1G2LZR4230C-2i;5F-03c00P;9;9;9;9;0k0;3VR-6g
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I think with those utilities it should be a lot more survivable. And still do more damage than a DPS Guardian. Plus having a respectable option to go ranged is a plus. What do you think about the survivability now when comparing them?
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I also used the Tornado elite… apparently switching tornado during a meteor shower channel does massive damage.

@ Jasher (post 2): In PvE, there is NEVER a range option. It does not exist unless the boss mechanics necessitate it, and the only boss I can think of that requires range is the final boss in Dredge fractal. You MUST stack bosses to benefit from your party’s boons, benefit from reflects, proc your own Earth VI trait, and benefit from group healing. Ranging off to the side while the rest of your party melee’s is selfish and ineffective, and should justifiably result in you being kicked ASAP.

@ Jasher (post 1): My only lvl 80s are ele, mes, war, guard, and thief. I know meta specs for all of them, and can tell you how each compares to the others. I can’t help with engi, ranger, or necro. I never bothered leveling them because they are not needed in PvE; for speed runs, there is a single semi-acceptable engi spec, a single semi-acceptable ranger spec, and no acceptable necro specs.

Anierna.6918:

@ Jasher (post 2): In PvE, there is NEVER a range option. It does not exist unless the boss mechanics necessitate it, and the only boss I can think of that requires range is the final boss in Dredge fractal. You MUST stack bosses to benefit from your party’s boons, benefit from reflects, proc your own Earth VI trait, and benefit from group healing.

Okay understandable, with the build I posted though, I should have access to vigor, mistform, arcane shield and armor of earth while still doing way more damage than DPS Guardian, Mesmer, etc…

How do you think they would compare in terms of survivability vs damage output then?

From my understanding the damage difference between the glass DPS Guardian and the Ele is huge?

Note: These are all questions and not statements.

The main problem with zerker staff dps in dungeons is stacking. You will get kitten d when you stack, however having some wars and guards around will help mitigate this. Ironic that you still need guards and warrs to help out huh?

I have no real problems running zerk Ele in dungeons, but when I have to stack I usually switch to water for water fields. Helps keep me alive through the stack.

Other than that the party generally appreciates the damage boost. There was a time we killed GhostnEater with just two traps because I was doing so much damage.

Jasher.6580:

Anierna.6918:

@ Jasher (post 2): In PvE, there is NEVER a range option. It does not exist unless the boss mechanics necessitate it, and the only boss I can think of that requires range is the final boss in Dredge fractal. You MUST stack bosses to benefit from your party’s boons, benefit from reflects, proc your own Earth VI trait, and benefit from group healing.

Okay understandable, with the build I posted though, I should have access to vigor, mistform, arcane shield and armor of earth while still doing way more damage than DPS Guardian, Mesmer, etc…

How do you think they would compare in terms of survivability vs damage output then?

From my understanding the damage difference between the glass DPS Guardian and the Ele is huge?

Note: These are all questions and not statements.

In terms of survivability guards will always outclass you, however as mentioned guards are melee and and you are ranged, so that helpsa bit. However, note that in many situations you will be forced into tight quarters without much space to kite, and there is the real problem.

Dps wise guards can crit for about 9k or so, but this won’t match your meteor showers which can go upwards of 10k, and you will typically hit a boss with 5 or so of them, if not more.

use lightninghammer. you can stack so much more might/fury for your group and your dps is higher than staff. you can switch between attunements without losing alot of dps and with an energy sigil thats enough to keep you alive in most situations.

http://imgur.com/a/PsqB1
and that was in a pug.

NoTrigger.8396:

use lightninghammer. you can stack so much more might/fury for your group and your dps is higher than staff. you can switch between attunements without losing alot of dps and with an energy sigil thats enough to keep you alive in most situations.

http://imgur.com/a/PsqB1
and that was in a pug.

Is that the legendary Scepter-Focus-Lightning Hammer build that I’ve long since felt was the optimal build for speedruns?

it is 30-10-10-20 scepter focus, full berserker + scholar runes

I use 30/20/0/0/20 Zerker-Scholar staff build, and as far as pve goes I do fine, most open world mobs dont last more than a rotation for the most part, dungeons are fairly doable, except for Arah which requieres its own build and armor which i have separated, and the other boss you should watchout is the spider in AC, which I drop a coupole of zerkers for 4 PVT pieces. Other than that, zerker staff is probably the most fun and safest thing you can use in PvE

Fortus.6175:

I use 30/20/0/0/20 Zerker-Scholar staff build, and as far as pve goes I do fine, most open world mobs dont last more than a rotation for the most part, dungeons are fairly doable, except for Arah which requieres its own build and armor which i have separated, and the other boss you should watchout is the spider in AC, which I drop a coupole of zerkers for 4 PVT pieces. Other than that, zerker staff is probably the most fun and safest thing you can use in PvE

You die at the spider in AC? The build must be garbage then…

Truth be told, pretty much all staff builds are bad at the moment.

I’ll make another topic for Lightning Hammer survivability. Staff seems way too squishy.

Very squishy but you shouldn’t be getting hit anyway.

Also staff is situational, there are encounters where you want to use other weapon sets.

Zelyhn.8069:

Truth be told, pretty much all staff builds are bad at the moment.

Either you just gave me a huge compliment (because I do pretty well with staff) or we just disagree.

ThiBash.5634:

Zelyhn.8069:

Truth be told, pretty much all staff builds are bad at the moment.

Either you just gave me a huge compliment (because I do pretty well with staff) or we just disagree.

Yes I am being a bit too harsh
We should have a more extensive and objective discussion on this!

NoTrigger.8396:

it is 30-10-10-20 scepter focus, full berserker + scholar runes

I’ve got a question for you about the s/f rotation. Here’s what I’m doing atm:

Anierna.6918:

s/f is nice because you don’t need Conjurer Trait in fire. After the first might-stacking rotation, you summon LH and AA w/ it, and as soon as you’re out of your 15 charges, Magnetic Wave and Comet are almost off CD. There is this 1-to-2-sec time frame between running out of LH charges and your blasts still being on CD, and I find that incredibly infuriating; the actual might-stacking rotation is also annoying, since there’s this “after-swap” atune CD of just over a sec where you’ve switched to Earth, used Magnetic Wave, and are just waiting for a sec doing nothing (or auto’ing w/ earth, which is nearly the same) before you’re able to go into Water. The Dec 10th update will semi-fix this issue.

For traits, since I don’t need to go into fire w/ s/f, I’m using 0/20/25/25/0. The other thing w/ s/f if that you need to leave water atune about half-way through your LH charges, so you an start the internal CD on it so Comet will be ready at the end of your next might-stacking rotation. So I’m using both the 20% dmg modifier while in Water and the 10% dmg modifier while in Air. The rotation (with atune swapping) looks like this:

Start in Fire Atune > Dragon’s Tooth > Flamewall > Phoenix + Arcane Wave > Earth Atune > Magnetic wave > Water Atune > Comet > Summon LH > LH AA (about 3 full rotations, meaning 9 charges) > Air Atune > LH AA (the remaining 2 rotations, meaning 6 charges) > repeat.

This works twice, since you summon 2x LH’s, but after though, you’re out of hammers. This hasn’t been a problem for me yet, since bosses are almost always dead after 3x might-stacking rotation and 2x full-LH uses.

I was using 30/10/10/20 with both s/d and s/f for a long while, but after a few weeks of playing s/f, I felt I had to go 0/20/25/25 for the damage modifier in Air, since I was leaving water early to get Comet into the following might rotation. Then there are the very-annoying time lapses between atune-swapping for might rotation. Is there a way to mitigate these problems, or is waiting for the atunement changes on Dec 10th the only hope?

i dont know if i am the right guy to answer that question. im new to ele tbh so i dont really know what im doing.

i do it like that normaly:
F1, 2, 4, 3, F4, 4, , F2, 5, and then lh 111 + fire elemental powder. then i switch back to fire in time so i can do one more rotation before i take the second lightning hammer.

Anierna.6918:

@ Jasher (post 2): In PvE, there is NEVER a range option. It does not exist unless the boss mechanics necessitate it, and the only boss I can think of that requires range is the final boss in Dredge fractal. You MUST stack bosses to benefit from your party’s boons, benefit from reflects, proc your own Earth VI trait, and benefit from group healing. Ranging off to the side while the rest of your party melee’s is selfish and ineffective, and should justifiably result in you being kicked ASAP.

What!? You would kick me from the party because I don’t automatically stack in red circles with the rest of the melee? So much wrong with this post. You obviously have your own way of doing things and that’s great, but please know that there is more than one way to play this game.

NoTrigger.8396:

i dont know if i am the right guy to answer that question. im new to ele tbh so i dont really know what im doing.

i do it like that normaly:
F1, 2, 4, 3, F4, 4, , F2, 5, and then lh 111 + fire elemental powder. then i switch back to fire in time so i can do one more rotation before i take the second lightning hammer.

yeah, that’s the same as I’m doing. Except that I hit F3 half-way through my LH charges, so I can do a water 5 in the 2nd might-stacking rotation before I pick up the second hammer. otherwise, I don’t get a water 5 in my 2nd rotation.

also, the time lapse between F4, 4 and F2 really bothers me. it’s just super annoying. hopefully dec 10th patch fixes it

ghettogenius.9174:

Anierna.6918:

@ Jasher (post 2): In PvE, there is NEVER a range option. It does not exist unless the boss mechanics necessitate it, and the only boss I can think of that requires range is the final boss in Dredge fractal. You MUST stack bosses to benefit from your party’s boons, benefit from reflects, proc your own Earth VI trait, and benefit from group healing. Ranging off to the side while the rest of your party melee’s is selfish and ineffective, and should justifiably result in you being kicked ASAP.

What!? You would kick me from the party because I don’t automatically stack in red circles with the rest of the melee? So much wrong with this post. You obviously have your own way of doing things and that’s great, but please know that there is more than one way to play this game.

I PLAY LIKE I WANT

I’ve always been against stacking. It can work sometimes but if you run gc you’ll obviously drop to stuff that others would survive.

I hate stacking. (It also trivializes encounters)

I am SO squishy on my zerker staff ele. It’s so good. So deliciously squishy. With zero points in water/earth, too! Mmmm….

but then none of that matters because of magnetic aura and arcane shield. Always kill, never die.

Fortus.6175:

I use 30/20/0/0/20 Zerker-Scholar staff build, and as far as pve goes I do fine, most open world mobs dont last more than a rotation for the most part, dungeons are fairly doable, except for Arah which requieres its own build and armor which i have separated, and the other boss you should watchout is the spider in AC, which I drop a coupole of zerkers for 4 PVT pieces. Other than that, zerker staff is probably the most fun and safest thing you can use in PvE

You can survive Spider Queen by changing to Water for stacking. You will typically not die unless the bug doesn’t work and she clears out everyone including your Warrs and Guards.