Guild Wars 2

As I said before the 0 30 0 20 20 will improve burst in Tpvp.
Maybe you can bring it to a smale scale wvw if you ran 1-3 guys and only got the same amount of opponents.

Nothing more will happen. The most wvw player have to stay at there current state of play.
The only other thing that could work is to give 20 points in earth a chance for more stability uptime.

From reading this this thread, I now fully understand why Anet made the changes they did to the class and it is extremely unfortunate. It would be awesome to have actual build diversity and actual viability doing different things, but some of these changes were just so poorly though out, I have to wonder what they were thinking and why they were listening to the people that suggested them.

covenn.7165:

From reading this this thread, I now fully understand why Anet made the changes they did to the class and it is extremely unfortunate. It would be awesome to have actual build diversity and actual viability doing different things, but some of these changes were just so poorly though out, I have to wonder what they were thinking and why they were listening to the people that suggested them.

I for one am ecstatic at the Earth Line changes because it really opens up a condition/signet build.

I think this bunker will be strong after patch
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-k34;2BJFX0-5sMFZ0;9;6JJT;429-42-41A7w0;3qNnCrBnB3Ry
3 sec aoe stability plus the 2 armor of earth and tornado is more than solid for reliable contesting points.Also i cant test right now but ive been told that arcane ressurection works with glyph of renewal.Plus the glyph counts the attunement you started casting it so you can start in whatever you want and switch in earth to prevent interrupts
I still dont know and i d love if someone could test if precasting the glyph before your teammate went down will still reliable rezz him.Tbh ive never even touched that utility :P If thats true then that would be big positive.Plus the fire effect is a nice little addition to troll people who dont know about it.
I think bunkers could roll with staff too now that geyser gets his casting time halved.
Plus imagine casting new gust and knocking back the downed enemy and his rezzers at same time

Glyph of Renewal is still working??? I would love them to have a look of it and re-work it Totally. It is so buggy atm.

0 30 0 10 30 offensive s/d dagger will be more dps but loose 1000 hp /100 heal and the heal by switching to water attunement. so more dps but less survival (fits more for roamerbuild)

but i really love they switched rock solidtrait to mastertrait .. 0 0 20 20 30 can be viable bunker/heal/support (2,6-3 sec stability all 10 sec! greatboongiver) (IAM GONNA PLAY THIS when patch hits..)

what i also like windborne dagger give d/d builds 25% mobility thats pretty good since meleeclasses lack mobility/range

staffbuffs great

diamond skin can make condi-ele viable

@Ultima
Do you think 0/30/0/10/30 will have more survival than 0/30/0/20/20 and gonna be picked up more ?
Minor trait in water heals as much as the dodgeroll if i remember and you can get to pick another cond cleanse trait like stop drop and roll which makes sure you remove burning.
I just really dont know if 1.1 sec more cd for the 3 attunements and loss of evasive arcana outweights the lose healing ripple and another water trait plus 1000hp/100 heal.

When the patch coming out. I will try new Bunker Build 0/0/20/30/20 or 0/0/20/20/30 since Rock Solid move to Master Trait. Hm.. Stability 2s every 9s is way too good to pass on. We can either use BOON duration Runes (Monk, Water,..) and Aura give Protection. For lack of Mobility, Signet of Air will worth a slot since it is now a Stun Breaker and a Nice AOE Blind.

kostbabis.8791:

@Ultima
Do you think 0/30/0/10/30 will have more survival than 0/30/0/20/20 and gonna be picked up more ?
Minor trait in water heals as much as the dodgeroll if i remember and you can get to pick another cond cleanse trait like stop drop and roll which makes sure you remove burning.
I just really dont know if 1.1 sec more cd for the 3 attunements and loss of evasive arcana outweights the lose healing ripple and another water trait plus 1000hp/100 heal.

Personally, assuming that these notes are totally true (which are probably not, even if they’re legit they’re 2 weeks old at least), I will be runing 30 air 20 water 20 arcana
Healing ripple is much better than evasive arcana for one simple reason: if you’re immobilized, you can’t dodge, so you can’t heal with EA in a clutch (IE: mesmer’s immobilize), but you can still heal with ripple…
oh, and running with 12.2k hps with few condition cleansing is kinda suicidal XD

20 earth 20 water 30 arcana with 2.6s of AoE stability every 9.6s would be borderline broken, lol XD

^ why nobody counts global attunement cooldown..
Its 11.25 sec between your earth switches at best! :P But im a bit afraid about rock solid,patch notes might be incomplete and theres more restrictions..Im also in fear of an elem attunement nerf in the form of global cd..(that would make me cry )
But for the offencive build im leaning towards 20 in arcana too and make up with stop drop and roll and water 5 for cond removal.
Besides evasive arcana heal is not for free.You need to waste endurance.And afterall the same endurance can be used to actually ..avoid the attack that would do the damage
Downside is that healing signet wont be that effective but i think for the extra 1 sec recharge of other attunements it wont be that much of a deal since your attunement dancing will have air as return point so you can use the attunements more wisely.
Well..i never thought that the time would come that i would have to face dillemas when it comes to building my ele.

kostbabis.8791:

@Ultima
Do you think 0/30/0/10/30 will have more survival than 0/30/0/20/20 and gonna be picked up more ?
Minor trait in water heals as much as the dodgeroll if i remember and you can get to pick another cond cleanse trait like stop drop and roll which makes sure you remove burning.
I just really dont know if 1.1 sec more cd for the 3 attunements and loss of evasive arcana outweights the lose healing ripple and another water trait plus 1000hp/100 heal.

y good question: it is pretty balanced but i guess some people wan switch faster attunements and want to have a chance to inflict a condition when they crit + ability to make damage with evasive arcana(burn),blind, cripple and heal mates

kostbabis.8791:

^ why nobody counts global attunement cooldown..
Its 11.25 sec between your earth switches at best! :P

details! XD

Ultima.8673:

y good question: it is pretty balanced but i guess some people wan switch faster attunements and want to have a chance to inflict a condition when they crit + ability to make damage with evasive arcana(burn),blind, cripple and heal mates

well, you can still heal mates with healing ripple at least…losing burn on dodge sucks tho, it was good for setting up fire grabs…choices to make!
I’ll probably keep using vital striking or aquamancer’s alacrity as my second water trait tho, unless I’m facing engineers >.<

Shar.3402:

kostbabis.8791:

@Ultima
Do you think 0/30/0/10/30 will have more survival than 0/30/0/20/20 and gonna be picked up more ?
Minor trait in water heals as much as the dodgeroll if i remember and you can get to pick another cond cleanse trait like stop drop and roll which makes sure you remove burning.
I just really dont know if 1.1 sec more cd for the 3 attunements and loss of evasive arcana outweights the lose healing ripple and another water trait plus 1000hp/100 heal.

Personally, assuming that these notes are totally true (which are probably not, even if they’re legit they’re 2 weeks old at least), I will be runing 30 air 20 water 20 arcana
Healing ripple is much better than evasive arcana for one simple reason: if you’re immobilized, you can’t dodge, so you can’t heal with EA in a clutch (IE: mesmer’s immobilize), but you can still heal with ripple…
oh, and running with 12.2k hps with few condition cleansing is kinda suicidal XD

20 earth 20 water 30 arcana with 2.6s of AoE stability every 9.6s would be borderline broken, lol XD

Thats the first thing I plan to try out is 20 in earth probably with signet of air to help with mobility.

Remove stun breaking from some of the most widely used skills to force players to use junk skill…or just break the class further? Bah, I’ve been watching elementalist go further & further down the tube with nerf upon nerf. I loved elementalist in gw1, starting to “dread” each “fix” to our stuff because they end up nerfing viability and find some way to reduce our potential (even if we’re not overpowered). We’re versatile and mobile (that’s what the class is about) but now they’ll be taking some more of that away from us. Maybe it’s time they fix the real problem with the class, not fix what 2% of the population thinks in pvp alone.

ARM.3912:

Ehecatl.9172:

ARM.3912:

Taking away two stun breakers from d/d, IMO that is the final nail in the coffin since the class cant survive without mobility.

Nobody is taking stunbreakers away. They are just being redistributed to different skills so builds that aren’t completely cantrip focused aren’t royally screwed whenever they get hit by a stun.

By definition they are taking stunbreakers away. You would have to be an Anet to run a glyph that gives you burning(already in fire), weakness(already in air), chill(already in water) and cripple(already in earth). If you want to run a glyph that gives you what you already have, and lose out on a teleport that actually keeps you alive be my guest. Oh, and kiss earth 5 goodbye. Since you are running glyphs now good luck landing that one.

While I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said, it’s even worse actually:

Even if (for reasons unknown) I wanted to use a Glyph that gives me what I already have, I’d at least want to get these things whenever it fits, and not wait for the enemy to stun me so I don’t waste my stunbreak. #ANetLogic shrug

Well, whatever. I guess we should be glad they didn’t go full Anet and put the stunbreaks on conjured weapons or sth.

makku.2508:

ARM.3912:

Ehecatl.9172:

ARM.3912:

Taking away two stun breakers from d/d, IMO that is the final nail in the coffin since the class cant survive without mobility.

Nobody is taking stunbreakers away. They are just being redistributed to different skills so builds that aren’t completely cantrip focused aren’t royally screwed whenever they get hit by a stun.

By definition they are taking stunbreakers away. You would have to be an Anet to run a glyph that gives you burning(already in fire), weakness(already in air), chill(already in water) and cripple(already in earth). If you want to run a glyph that gives you what you already have, and lose out on a teleport that actually keeps you alive be my guest. Oh, and kiss earth 5 goodbye. Since you are running glyphs now good luck landing that one.

While I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said, it’s even worse actually:

Even if (for reasons unknown) I wanted to use a Glyph that gives me what I already have, I’d at least want to get these things whenever it fits, and not wait for the enemy to stun me so I don’t waste my stunbreak. #ANetLogic shrug

Well, whatever. I guess we should be glad they didn’t go full Anet and put the stunbreaks on conjured weapons or sth.

While I agree that putting a stunbreaker on GoEP is a bit confusing, you guys are bashing a skill you have NO IDEA about. GoEP gives you conditions on ALL ATTUNEMENTS based on which attunement you were in when you cast it.

So I cast GoEP in earth attunement and my lightning skills now cripple (and it cripples a lot). I feel this glyph is really under-rated and now with the new weakness buff, you can use it in air to give all your spells a weakness proc. Very powerful when facing GC thieves/warriors.

Still scratching head about how to use it as a stunbreaker since not using it prefight is wasting buff time.

Imho they should have added stunbreak to glyph of renewal (still has cast but just breaks stun) if you trait into quick glyphs (which any glyph build should do)

Demon.5082:

While I agree that putting a stunbreaker on GoEP is a bit confusing, you guys are bashing a skill you have NO IDEA about. GoEP gives you conditions on ALL ATTUNEMENTS based on which attunement you were in when you cast it.

So I cast GoEP in earth attunement and my lightning skills now cripple (and it cripples a lot). I feel this glyph is really under-rated and now with the new weakness buff, you can use it in air to give all your spells a weakness proc. Very powerful when facing GC thieves/warriors.

Still scratching head about how to use it as a stunbreaker since not using it prefight is wasting buff time.

Oh I do know how it works, and I believe ARM does as well. I think “burning (already in fire), weakness (already in air), …” was meant as: Regardless of in what circumstances you use the Glyph, it will never provide anything we do not already have access to via certain skills in specific attunements.
The Glyph grants you either burning, weakness, chill or cripple based on which attunement you cast it in. But, that’s kinda redundant, because we already have low CD, on demand access to all of these conditions.
While I agree having your air skills cripple (or chill, or burn) comes in handy at times, that’s highly situational and is furthermore completely overshadowed by the giant lack of synergy between the Glyph’s inherent effect and the additional effect of breaking stuns.
There. Is. No. Synergy. None at all.

I mean, there’s a reason we have all our stunbreaks on cantrips: They synergize well with their effects; IT MAKES SENSE TO HAVE THEM THERE. Breaking a stun while going invulnerable makes sense. Breaking a stun while cleansing truckloads of conditions makes sense. Breaking a stun when teleporting somewhere makes perfect sense. Breaking a stun to get a long lasting buff causing a chance of inflicting conditions on your skills? Not so much.

A stun break is an instant emergency reaction. Just like our cantrips. GoEP is a long term strategic skill. Putting these 2 things together is not ‘confusing’, it’s just idiotic. That’s why you can keep scratching your head for days and weeks to come without getting an idea about how to utilize this skill as both a long duration buff and an instant stunbreak to full potential, because it’s just not possible.

Demon.5082:

Still scratching head about how to use it as a stunbreaker since not using it prefight is wasting buff time.

It is fairly simple. Either you go offensive and start the fight by using it, thereby risking getting stunned, or you go defensively and use it to gain an advantage after someone tries to stun you.

That is really no different than the current choice of using Lightning Flash offensively or defensively.

Huge difference wildclaw. A staff ele for example pretty much never used lightning flash offensively. Adding a damage boost to it for them is wasteful and taking away the stun break is harmful to what was already the most survival challenged weapon for eles.

You are right about DD / SD / etc. though. In fact I will go so far as to say the stun break won’t even be noticed by those weapon sets in most situations. Therein lies the actual problem with this change for those of you who can’t see it……

makku.2508:

A stun break is an instant emergency reaction. Just like our cantrips. GoEP is a long term strategic skill. Putting these 2 things together is not ‘confusing’, it’s just idiotic. That’s why you can keep scratching your head for days and weeks to come without getting an idea about how to utilize this skill as both a long duration buff and an instant stunbreak to full potential, because it’s just not possible.

I agree that it makes no sense but if the sensible thing is not balanced then it has to be changed right? :-P

I feel that if they wanted to give glyph builds a stun break, they should have done it to Glyph of Elemental Harmony instead but only when traited (quick glyphs) so that all eles wont run it without traiting.

Wildclaw.6073:

It is fairly simple. Either you go offensive and start the fight by using it, thereby risking getting stunned, or you go defensively and use it to gain an advantage after someone tries to stun you.

That is really no different than the current choice of using Lightning Flash offensively or defensively.

True but it would have made more sense to somehow incorporate this stunbreak into the defensive glyph we have instead of an offensive one.

The case with LF is similar but there one could argue that you are also gap closing to follow up with skills that are better used at melee range.

You wont see a staff ele LF to his target just for the damage :-P

covenn.7165:

Huge difference wildclaw. A staff ele for example pretty much never used lightning flash offensively. Adding a damage boost to it for them is wasteful and taking away the stun break is harmful to what was already the most survival challenged weapon for eles.

You are right about DD / SD / etc. though. In fact I will go so far as to say the stun break won’t even be noticed by those weapon sets in most situations. Therein lies the actual problem with this change for those of you who can’t see it……

Heh, we just said the same thing XD

Yes that is always the consequence of a hasty change to nerf the meta spec. Non meta specs take a harder hit.

Demon.5082:

makku.2508:

A stun break is an instant emergency reaction. Just like our cantrips. GoEP is a long term strategic skill. Putting these 2 things together is not ‘confusing’, it’s just idiotic. That’s why you can keep scratching your head for days and weeks to come without getting an idea about how to utilize this skill as both a long duration buff and an instant stunbreak to full potential, because it’s just not possible.

I agree that it makes no sense but if the sensible thing is not balanced then it has to be changed right? :-P

Well, depends. The one big thing causing more and more annoyance for me is the following: Elementalist is actually the best class in this game design-wise: The gameplay has a great flow to it, it features traitlines of nice synergy (not counting the useless stuff) and everything an elementalist does is nicely telegraphed to the player himself as well as everyone else (fancy explosions ‘n stuff, you always know what’s going on when fighting with/against an Elementalist. Mesmer? Unless you play Mesmer yourself, you have absolutely no idea what’s going on, and then you’re dead. That’s bad design actually.) So instead of applying the most idiotic changes to Elementalists every other patch, they should finally get their act together bring those other extremely poor designed classes (Mesmer & Thief are like the epitome of how to NOT design a class, but almost every other class is severely lacking as well) up to the level of Elementalists (not speaking of relative power as in class balance here, just pure design issues), and lots of problems would already be solved.

In all honesty, I’d prefer if they just took away 1 or even 2 stunbreaks and then be done with it, instead of shifting them over to the most idiotic skills ever in a cheap and incompetent attempt of creating build diversity (‘oh let’s see… if ima take it away here and instead add it… hmmm.. there… voila, diversity!’), corrupting design cohesion along the way.

Demon.5082:

True but it would have made more sense to somehow incorporate this stunbreak into the defensive glyph we have instead of an offensive one.

What glyph are you talking about?

• Storms? That would be plain stupid as you don’t want to have stun break on a skill that you have to AoE target
• Renewal? Even more stupid. Massive cd and the likelyhood of having someone around to revive at the time you want to use it as a stunbreaker is small.
• Lesser Elemental? Not a bad choice but it has a long effective cd.
• Harmony? It is a heal, not a utility. Besides, putting a stunbreaker on it would make it overpowered.

Hence we come back to GoEP. It is simply the glyph that fits best both with cd and what kind of effect it has on usage. And GoEP could use a small boost anyway, so the stunbreak and probably instant cast is a nice upgrade.

How does GoEP fit better as a stunbreaker than for example Arcane shield? I’ve seen dozens of builds using Arcane shield, yet none (tournament-worthy) that used GoEP.

yeah, arcane shield would make way more sense…

Wildclaw.6073:

Demon.5082:

True but it would have made more sense to somehow incorporate this stunbreak into the defensive glyph we have instead of an offensive one.

What glyph are you talking about?

• Storms? That would be plain stupid as you don’t want to have stun break on a skill that you have to AoE target
• Renewal? Even more stupid. Massive cd and the likelyhood of having someone around to revive at the time you want to use it as a stunbreaker is small.
• Lesser Elemental? Not a bad choice but it has a long effective cd.
• Harmony? It is a heal, not a utility. Besides, putting a stunbreaker on it would make it overpowered.

Hence we come back to GoEP. It is simply the glyph that fits best both with cd and what kind of effect it has on usage. And GoEP could use a small boost anyway, so the stunbreak and probably instant cast is a nice upgrade.

I was talking about harmony but stated that the stun breaker should be incorporated into the quick glyphs trait (allowing only glyph builds or those who spend a trait to get the stun break)

Arcane shield is a nice choice but it is usable when stunned and I prefer to look vulnerable and pop it so that it blows for massive damage rather than break my stun and start running from my target or scaring my target into defensive mode

If Arcane Shield broke stun then it has an extra benefit over mist form. You can use your skills and utilities with arcane shield up. The question is what you like more: block 3 hits or invul.

CuRtoKy.8576:

If Arcane Shield broke stun then it has an extra benefit over mist form. You can use your skills and utilities with arcane shield up. The question is what you like more: block 3 hits or invul.

What people forget is the damage AS does when it blows. Its easily equal to the damage of a firegrab on non burning targets. Making it a stunbreak alerts your enemies to go on the defensive and you lose the explosion damage.

Demon.5082:

CuRtoKy.8576:

If Arcane Shield broke stun then it has an extra benefit over mist form. You can use your skills and utilities with arcane shield up. The question is what you like more: block 3 hits or invul.

What people forget is the damage AS does when it blows. Its easily equal to the damage of a firegrab on non burning targets. Making it a stunbreak alerts your enemies to go on the defensive and you lose the explosion damage.

This already occurs when AS is used defensively anyway. Making it a stunbreaker wouldn’t significantly increase or decrease this from happening.