Guild Wars 2

With all the changes and nerfs to D/D ele, after all this long time, it is time to change RTL back to what it used to be!!!!

Lets make ELE fun again!!!!!!!!!

Anet pretty pls!!!! <3

Agreed, they said they want to give dagger something to make it interesting to make up for the loss of windborne. For once, we would be perfectly okay with ANet taking the shortcut and just give us something interesting we already had.

Restore RTL back to a real skill again.

Yes pls.

queue daphoenix videos

Yeah please unnerf RTL and make d/d fun again for roaming.

Agreed. That was such a brutal change.

i agree. it def wouldnt be considered op in this current meta.

As someone who was a heavy proponent and supporter of the Nerf RTL (I made it very clear on these here forums) got back when Ele’s were ridiculously strong, I too support this re-installment.

It is a far different game than it was, and RTL was a convenience thing especially in PvE. Even if they wouldn’t change it in SPvP, they should consider around it.

I don’t even need the 1400 range, just the 15-20s CD would be enough ignoring the stupid “on-hit” thing.

snyler.7259:

It can’t be back a rush with 1200 range is too much (oh wait, warrior gs?)

Would be nice if Warriors had 10 more weapon skills.

runeblade.7514:

snyler.7259:

It can’t be back a rush with 1200 range is too much (oh wait, warrior gs?)

Would be nice if Warriors had 10 more weapon skills.

Would be nice if all those extra skills the elementalists get didn’t have significantly less damage and utility per activation.

well, considering almost none is running offhand dagger now, it really should get some buff and the RTL seems like a good option

runeblade.7514:

snyler.7259:

It can’t be back a rush with 1200 range is too much (oh wait, warrior gs?)

Would be nice if Warriors had 10 more weapon skills.

Would be nice if all extra skills ele have were useful.
Would be nice if all extra skills ele have were had cooldowns low enough to be even comparable with other classes skills.
Would be nice if all extra skills that actually can do damage didn’t require other long cd skill setup to hit.

Nutshel.7264:

runeblade.7514:

snyler.7259:

It can’t be back a rush with 1200 range is too much (oh wait, warrior gs?)

Would be nice if Warriors had 10 more weapon skills.

Would be nice if all extra skills ele have were useful.
Would be nice if all extra skills ele have were had cooldowns low enough to be even comparable with other classes skills.
Would be nice if all extra skills that actually can do damage didn’t require other long cd skill setup to hit.

They are useful. They have longer cool downs because there is so many. Have you played Fresh Air? It has one of the fastest cool down bursts in the game.

As a supporter of the RTL Installment to 1200 Range, stop comparing classes. Apples and oranges.

This right here is just as irritating as when warriors complain they don’t have as many boons or combo fields on demand. Or some other non descript class wants what some other class has.

Ele’s can’t have what warriors have or it would be overpowered. (and VICE VERSA might I add.)

So stop using this terrible argument.

PistolWhip.2697:

Nutshel.7264:

runeblade.7514:

snyler.7259:

It can’t be back a rush with 1200 range is too much (oh wait, warrior gs?)

Would be nice if Warriors had 10 more weapon skills.

Would be nice if all extra skills ele have were useful.
Would be nice if all extra skills ele have were had cooldowns low enough to be even comparable with other classes skills.
Would be nice if all extra skills that actually can do damage didn’t require other long cd skill setup to hit.

They are useful. They have longer cool downs because there is so many. Have you played Fresh Air? It has one of the fastest cool down bursts in the game.

As a supporter of the RTL Installment to 1200 Range, stop comparing classes. Apples and oranges.

This right here is just as irritating as when warriors complain they don’t have as many boons or combo fields on demand. Or some other non descript class wants what some other class has.

Ele’s can’t have what warriors have or it would be overpowered. (and VICE VERSA might I add.)

So stop using this terrible argument.

It is a terrible argument as looking in a vacuum or comparing other classes together people forget that there are other talents or abiltiies to weigh in on.

Still, RTL should now be 1200 range on 20 second cooldown without that hit/miss junk.

Raif.9507:

Still, RTL should now be 1200 range on 20 second cooldown without that hit/miss junk.

Precisely. Or even at the very least, outside SPvP and possibly WvW (I don’t WvW enough to know.).

In PvE this is just a silly thing to not change back, all it causes is inconvenience for anyone playing and mapping on Elementalist.

I remember it was pretty OP in the beginning. Now to recap, I just read the history in the wiki and it’s rather ridiculous: first it had a 15 s cooldown and 1550 range, then 20 s CD, then 40 s CD and 1200 range lol. Nerfed so hard it became useless.

ProtoGunner.4953:

I remember it was pretty OP in the beginning. Now to recap, I just read the history in the wiki and it’s rather ridiculous: first it had a 15 s cooldown and 1550 range, then 20 s CD, then 40 s CD and 1200 range lol. Nerfed so hard it became useless.

Before RTL defined how a d/d ele moved around. Now the best thing RTL has going for it is its soundFX.

Guys, how about RTL 30s CD if it doesn’t have a target selected. 15s CD if it has a target selected, no matter if the skill hits or not. Simpler logic, without their bs of block/evade

Some how I can picture this kind of thread happening no matter what is else is going on.
Profession being nerf into the ground: RTL time (kind of like miller time there)
Profession ascending to unchallenged godhood: RTL time.
Day ending in ‘y’: RTL time.

Why not war gs charge CD also increase to 40 like ele :P

Bran.7425:

Some how I can picture this kind of thread happening no matter what is else is going on.

It was JUST SO FUN!! That level of freedom and mobility has been sorely lacking since the change. Those who still remember can even stomach some of the terrible changes that are taking away MORE of the fun if they give us back some from the past.

But it all falls on deaf ears anyway.

I used to D/D all the time until I took a nerf to the knee…

Daphoenix angered too many warrio kids who couldn’t kill him and cried so hard that ANet had to listen. The rest of us Ele players are simply too mature (and likely tired from jobs) to cry that hard to get it back. Or to bother explaining that daphoenix, while good, simply trolled people, rarely getting kills.

D/D used to be an awesome, exciting and fun set, and yes, a lot of it revolved around a low CD RtL (and Burning Speed) to give it a kinetic feel.

ANet took the profession that is the lightest armored, lowest health, no inherent defense, nerfed healing coefficients, and made it slow. Seriously, I get that their CONCEPT is that Thief is supposed to be most mobile, because… reasons. But that doesn’t matter when gameplay balance suffers.

Eles are the squishiest, period, unless played to the hilt 100% of the time, no mistakes. Therefore, they should be able to output the most damage, along with being the most mobile to compensate.

While Eles CAN output high damage, it usually means Staff (and the requirement that targets sit in your AoE rather than dodge/evade/invuln/etc.) OR Scepter/LH might stacking, with precise combos and rotations, and being in close to targets who want to murder you. All of which a Warrio can do by spamming Greatsword#2.

What really needs to happen is for ANet to stop faffing about on the “trinity” and avoiding class roles like its a plague. I’m not saying have a trinity, but at the very least have an idea for each profession that is consistent with balance methods and gameplay. No new to GW2 player rolls an Ele because they’re hoping to play a sustain tank holding points. They want to unload mass destruction on their enemies. And for the last year, and with the upcoming expansion, ANet seems to have no clear design method for class balance, especially with regards to Elementalists, other than maybe this:

It should always be on a 20s CD out of combat, I don’t see how that’s OP

Alex Ko.4580:

Why not war gs charge CD also increase to 40 like ele :P

Raif.9507:

PistolWhip.2697:

Nutshel.7264:

runeblade.7514:

snyler.7259:

It can’t be back a rush with 1200 range is too much (oh wait, warrior gs?)

Would be nice if Warriors had 10 more weapon skills.

Would be nice if all extra skills ele have were useful.
Would be nice if all extra skills ele have were had cooldowns low enough to be even comparable with other classes skills.
Would be nice if all extra skills that actually can do damage didn’t require other long cd skill setup to hit.

They are useful. They have longer cool downs because there is so many. Have you played Fresh Air? It has one of the fastest cool down bursts in the game.

As a supporter of the RTL Installment to 1200 Range, stop comparing classes. Apples and oranges.

This right here is just as irritating as when warriors complain they don’t have as many boons or combo fields on demand. Or some other non descript class wants what some other class has.

Ele’s can’t have what warriors have or it would be overpowered. (and VICE VERSA might I add.)

So stop using this terrible argument.

It is a terrible argument as looking in a vacuum or comparing other classes together people forget that there are other talents or abiltiies to weigh in on.

Still, RTL should now be 1200 range on 20 second cooldown without that hit/miss junk.

A

I used to D/D all the time until I took a nerf to the knee…

Daphoenix angered too many warrio kids who couldn’t kill him and cried so hard that ANet had to listen. The rest of us Ele players are simply too mature (and likely tired from jobs) to cry that hard to get it back. Or to bother explaining that daphoenix, while good, simply trolled people, rarely getting kills.

D/D used to be an awesome, exciting and fun set, and yes, a lot of it revolved around a low CD RtL (and Burning Speed) to give it a kinetic feel.

ANet took the profession that is the lightest armored, lowest health, no inherent defense, nerfed healing coefficients, and made it slow. Seriously, I get that their CONCEPT is that Thief is supposed to be most mobile, because… reasons. But that doesn’t matter when gameplay balance suffers.

Eles are the squishiest, period, unless played to the hilt 100% of the time, no mistakes. Therefore, they should be able to output the most damage, along with being the most mobile to compensate.

As someone who has mained both a warrior and an ele for an extensive period of time I find it rude that you’d insinuate one has a more mature playerbase. May I remind you of the first time D/D Ele got a nerf years ago? The Ele section was so toxic and QQ riddled that people ingame when encountering my ele would disclude me from events because they were afraid I’d be depressing. Such symptoms were also all over Lions Arch map chat. Warriors and Ele’s both have their bad apples.

Also the nerf was just as much about SPvP balance as it was WvW, arguably more so in fact. So Daphoenix and his videos of him running around for 20 minutes with bundles in PvE only worked to have Anet nerf Bundles, not Ele. Ele was an issue in SPvP.

And to your last point, D/D Ele Cele would like a word. It and Shoutbow Warrior are arguably the two most entry level friendly meta specs in the game because they allow for a large margin of errors.

Support RTL, not your warped idea of balance.

It seems as though everyone forgets that RtL was also bugged at the time to 1550 range. The nerf/bugfix changed the range from 1550 to 1200 AND doubled the CD (adding the silly on-hit cooldown reduction).

If the devs were to bring RtL back to a 20s CD (at least in PvE/WvW), it would a nice improvement for offhand dagger, and completely in line with other mobility skills that other classes have. Given, comparing classes is like comparing apples and oranges, a 1200 leap on a 20s CD is pretty standard and balanced.

TL;DR: ANet, plz.

Sincerely, someone who used to enjoy playing ele.

15 or 20 sec ride the lightning is always welcome.

I’m always all for this.

Nutshel.7264:

runeblade.7514:

snyler.7259:

It can’t be back a rush with 1200 range is too much (oh wait, warrior gs?)

Would be nice if Warriors had 10 more weapon skills.

Would be nice if all extra skills ele have were useful.
Would be nice if all extra skills ele have were had cooldowns low enough to be even comparable with other classes skills.
Would be nice if all extra skills that actually can do damage didn’t require other long cd skill setup to hit.

Would be nice if warriors didn’t need extra dodge rolls to dodge all the extra useful ele skills.
Would be nice that if I could spam my 2/3/4/5 skills for days without touching the autoattack.
Would be nice if other players couldn’t dodge so that I can make use of the 2/3/4/5/f1 skills.

Guys please. Can we not make this a Class A vs Class B thread? This is a bout bringing back an old crowd favourite that currently wouldn’t have issues fitting into the game at it’s current level of meta.

I know he started it, but let us be better than him and not advocate for a change by pointing fingers at the other kid in the playground.

Sunshine.5014:

Guys, how about RTL 30s CD if it doesn’t have a target selected. 15s CD if it has a target selected, no matter if the skill hits or not. Simpler logic, without their bs of block/evade

This is actually a pretty good idea, why didn’t anet just base the ICD off whether there was a target or not instead of whether it landed or not.

+1!

Grimreaper.5370:

Sunshine.5014:

Guys, how about RTL 30s CD if it doesn’t have a target selected. 15s CD if it has a target selected, no matter if the skill hits or not. Simpler logic, without their bs of block/evade

This is actually a pretty good idea, why didn’t anet just base the ICD off whether there was a target or not instead of whether it landed or not.

+1!

No, it’s stupid. Just revert it back to 15 sec. And we already got 1200 range now, which should have been the only nerf ever.

Timelord.8190:

Grimreaper.5370:

Sunshine.5014:

Guys, how about RTL 30s CD if it doesn’t have a target selected. 15s CD if it has a target selected, no matter if the skill hits or not. Simpler logic, without their bs of block/evade

This is actually a pretty good idea, why didn’t anet just base the ICD off whether there was a target or not instead of whether it landed or not.

+1!

No, it’s stupid. Just revert it back to 15 sec. And we already got 1200 range now, which should have been the only nerf ever.

20s is good enough. rtl timer being thwarted by blind was the stupid thing.

20 is not good enough. Almost every other class got better mobility than ele.

Timelord.8190:

20 is not good enough. Almost every other class got better mobility than ele.

20 seconds is great considering you also have the possible combos for Lightning Flash, Burning Speed, Burning Retreat, and very large amounts of swiftness.

I’d give much to have RTL at 20 seconds again.

For The Record, all the nerfs to RTL

- RTL now disables utility skills
- RTL now disables weapon skills
- RTL now dramatatically afffected by gravity.
- RTL now less range
- RTL now has 20 sec cd and double if not hit.

Oh C’mon man, i see you are trying to balance things. But you can do this without removing the “fun” part.

Bring it back please, it wouldn’t be bad if it didn’t punish us for using it “as you intended” only to be hit with the 40 sec cd because someone managed to dodge the highly telegraphed move.

I sit on mine for disengaging now as its offensive use will still often times get me a 40 sec cooldown because “evade” popped up on my screen

20s cd, no on hit stuff. everybody will be happy.

Jekkt.6045:

20s cd, no on hit stuff. everybody will be happy.

I’d settle for any reduced timer at all, 40 second ICD is outrageous when dealing with kiting classes.

Jekkt.6045:

20s cd, no on hit stuff. everybody will be happy.

I’d be okay with 25 to be honest, so long as it keeps its immunity to cripple and chill.

Given that one of the key factors to D/D is mobility, there is no reason strong enough to keep that outrageous CD. I agree that 20s is reasonable, with the certain nerfs to arcana at our door and the uncertainty of tempest let us have at least one good thing to look forward to.

A 25s cooldown, traitable to 20s via Aeromancer’s Alacrity, would seem very reasonable. Might ANet actually consider that?

William Bradley Knight.2609:

A 25s cooldown, traitable to 20s via Aeromancer’s Alacrity, would seem very reasonable. Might ANet actually consider that?

Doubtful, all the new Revenants (former Warrios) might whine too much about how Eles get away from all their shiny skills.

Likely, ANet will leave Eles old skills as is. After all, we keep playing them despite the issues, so what’s ANet’s incentive to fix them?

Kaleban.9834:

William Bradley Knight.2609:

A 25s cooldown, traitable to 20s via Aeromancer’s Alacrity, would seem very reasonable. Might ANet actually consider that?

Doubtful, all the new Revenants (former Warrios) might whine too much about how Eles get away from all their shiny skills.

Likely, ANet will leave Eles old skills as is. After all, we keep playing them despite the issues, so what’s ANet’s incentive to fix them?

And this is why this class has serious problems right now, we have only 1-2 viable builds at PvP, after all the nerfs we still cant change to something else.

At PvE people run only staff nowdays, a few people at some occasions equip dagger/focus but i never see d/d running arround ever.
Myself i used to love D/D (both pve/pvp), i was playing exclusively d/d for more than 1.5years but all the nerfs and the thing i didn’t have fun anymore with those weapons, i had to change to something else (staff)(like everyone else), i still keep my daggers in my inventory but i never use them.

Old RTL back, but only accessible to non-specialised eles XD

Kaleban.9834:

William Bradley Knight.2609:

A 25s cooldown, traitable to 20s via Aeromancer’s Alacrity, would seem very reasonable. Might ANet actually consider that?

Doubtful, all the new Revenants (former Warrios) might whine too much about how Eles get away from all their shiny skills.

Likely, ANet will leave Eles old skills as is. After all, we keep playing them despite the issues, so what’s ANet’s incentive to fix them?

why do you think warriors will play revenant in the future. doesn’t play like a warrior at all lol. axe 4 is a very solid gap closer so rtl wouldn’t hurt them much.

Kaleban.9834:

William Bradley Knight.2609:

A 25s cooldown, traitable to 20s via Aeromancer’s Alacrity, would seem very reasonable. Might ANet actually consider that?

Doubtful, all the new Revenants (former Warrios) might whine too much about how Eles get away from all their shiny skills.

Likely, ANet will leave Eles old skills as is. After all, we keep playing them despite the issues, so what’s ANet’s incentive to fix them?

Bingo

sorrychief.2563:

Kaleban.9834:

William Bradley Knight.2609:

A 25s cooldown, traitable to 20s via Aeromancer’s Alacrity, would seem very reasonable. Might ANet actually consider that?

Doubtful, all the new Revenants (former Warrios) might whine too much about how Eles get away from all their shiny skills.

Likely, ANet will leave Eles old skills as is. After all, we keep playing them despite the issues, so what’s ANet’s incentive to fix them?

Bingo

Double Bingo

Jekkt.6045:

Kaleban.9834:

William Bradley Knight.2609:

A 25s cooldown, traitable to 20s via Aeromancer’s Alacrity, would seem very reasonable. Might ANet actually consider that?

Doubtful, all the new Revenants (former Warrios) might whine too much about how Eles get away from all their shiny skills.

Likely, ANet will leave Eles old skills as is. After all, we keep playing them despite the issues, so what’s ANet’s incentive to fix them?

why do you think warriors will play revenant in the future. doesn’t play like a warrior at all lol. axe 4 is a very solid gap closer so rtl wouldn’t hurt them much.

I posted this in another thread some time back, but I have a feeling there will be a Revpocalypse very similar to the Sinpocalypse of GW1.

Everyone and their dog will roll Rev, most will be terrible, and the new profession won’t get the “shakedown” time the original professions got at launch, and may garner a reputation for being terribad.

That is of course, unless ANet makes the Rev so OP that every other profession looks like small potatoes by comparison.

I joke about it being “Warrios” because since the first day of GW1 the Echo Mending Wammo was sort of the go-to joke meme.

No, old RTL was OP. Anyone that played when game came out knows this.