Guild Wars 2

in all seriousness burst builds have taken a much bigger hit other tankers cele specs. Nerfing a entire segment of the class that already was underwhelming is a big mistake. (I am biased towards burst ele and don’t really like dd tank specs in their current state but that would make me biased towards thinking burst specs are stronger than they are would i not ???) the way the traits are it looks like zerker mesmer might become meta but ele still will have no truly competitive zerker option. please remember I design this on a small amount of freetime and the devs spend much more time with a larger team so don’t expect every trait to be perfect yet.

Trait changes: these are mostly focused on bustier or damage focused builds but include overall design changes that are beneficial to all eles.

Fire:
This line did not receive nerfs necessarily but is not going to be able to provide enough survival for a glassy ele and doesn’t add enough to its burst because many of the traits incentivize melee gameplay ( bad on glassy builds) but aren’t even that strong in the first place making it likely to be the least used line by elementalists outside of pve.

My changes: This line will be strong for adding sustained damage and some sustain (moving most blinding traits to air)

Grand Master – Blinding Ashes – you have a 33% chance to burn foes you hit; blind foes you burn ( 3s ICD per target )

Grand Master – Pyromancer’s puissance – Fire auras you apply reduce damage taken ( 15% )

master- minor – Sunspot: Blind your target when attuning to fire ( AoE around target)

adept – Power overwhelming – gain 33% more duration for burning and gain might when you strike a burning foe ( 1 stacks ( 1s icd) 5 seconds base duration)

Adept – conjurer- conjure weapons have additional affects ( not sure about icebow but if they Nerf it damage ( the said the would) making it support viable could be nice- icestorm on frostbow heals ( more on theme with it anyways), lightning hammer applies vulnerable with each attack (2 stacks), you take reduced damage while wielding earth shield, fiery gs ( need better ideas), flame axe does increased damage to burning foes ( 10%)

adept minor – critical blaze – ( 10% higher crit chance to burning foes, might change this)

Air: this line is okay but the modifiers on it aren’t consistent with other traits i will explain on aeromancer’s training)

My Changes: this line becomes a highly critchance and damage based line with emphasis on popping in and out of air attunement to burst and use skill that provide utility and synergizes with blind ( fire will keep the blinding GM but other blind traits will likely be moved to air )

adept- Ferocious winds: Gain ferocity based on your percision ( 7% )

adept minor – Zephyr’s percision: gain 10% critical chance while in air attunement ( awaiting laraley’s obviously amazing suggestion she is bound to post)

Master – aeromancers training – air skills reduced CD by 20% and increases crit damage by 30% ( roughly 425 ferocity ) this is because as the trait is set up now it provides + 10% crit damage which, because it us a multiplier for power, is only a 5% damage bonus on crit and the average crit chance of a Zerker scholar runes build in pvp is 49% this is under a 2.5% average damage bonus and so is absolutely useless; with my changes it would be an average 7.5% damage bonus but can be made higher with the crit chance the air line would incentivize.)

GM – bolt to the heart – increase damage by 20% to foes below 50% hp ( this is only an average age 6.66…% damage modifier so it is not GM worthy. 20/3 = 6.66…)

GM minor – piercing lightning – cause vulnerability ( 3 stacks) to foes you blind ( does this need an icd? )

Master – Powerful inscriptions – reduce recharge of glyphs by 20%, glyphs have addition effects based on your attunement:

Glyph of storms fire attunement-example- firestorm also grants might to allies in an AoE ( 5s duration 2 stacks per second )

Notes:
Currently fixing balance, design, and thematical issues as well as adding an arcana improvements section.

Also if you like my ideas Arena-net please allow me to help you with more design balance I have the summer free and would be happy to help you then ( Note that especially the blind traits in the fire line are not final, moving most of them to air and adjusting traitlines right now).

More ideas, critique, and balancing suggestions are much appreciated!!!! Nothing is final and theme reworking is in progress. Remember my balance is based on mathematics and quantifiable amounts or references to top or players with well respected opinions.

As this thread is full ( my post has reached work cap ) I will be making a separate arcana + water changes thread which will eventually become the final product of my game balance design recommendations for ele.

Sadrien.3470:

Also if you like my ideas Arena-net please allow me to help you with more design balance I have the summer free and would be happy to help you then ( Note that especially the blind traits in the fire line are not final).

Hahahaha…do you really think this is going to get read by anyone at Anet.

You do have some good suggestions and its clear that you have a greater grasp on the true usefulness of some of the lines already. Even as an inexperienced designer, I would have more faith in you than the current designers.

I don’t play ele, but i’m considering it as my next toon. From what i’ve seen, I thought scepter focus was a burst single target build?

Fire magic
Every suggestion you did here feel like a nerf. How could this buff “burst ele”? The main issue is that blind disapear as soon as your enemy try to hit you, thus you can say that destructive ashes become useless 90% of the time. Pyromancer’s puissance is a strong trait in it’s current state (even for burst ele) and… you just nerf it out of the blue. Why?
Your idea for sunspot might be a good idea, thought. But, personnally, that’s all i’d take out of this traitline.

Air magic
Ferocious wind : seem legit.
Zephyr’s precision : too strong for a minor. It would just be better if they made one with air the minor and switch it with your Zephyr’s precision.

The reason why burst Elementalist doesn’t work in SPvP is a lack of escapes/mobility to correspond with it’s low HP/Armor.

When you look at the play styles of traditional high burst classes, namely the Thief and Mesmer, both have numerous escape tools to get out of hard situations. This show these classes deal with being focused, they can use stealth and mobility or clone generation. Their survivability isn’t tied directly to having to tank damage but rather avoid damage entirely.

Elementalist on the other hand lacks these escape tools and instead is expected/designed to take these hits and either mitigate them with Boons and recover from them with healing. However, because healing was repeatedly nerfed at release, in order to properly keep up with the amount of damage out there you’re instead forced to spec heavily into Water/Arcane to get enough boon generation and healing to get enough sustain for it to matter.

Realistically we should probably have our HP pool swapped with Mesmer but that would mean having consistent game design and I’m pretty sure the developers are against that because “ooo wow looky here the light armor pool is different than the medium woooo diversificationalism shiny special cases!!!11”

Good luck. Karl seems like the type that never reads anything other than a pizza menu.

Kodiak.3281:

The reason why burst Elementalist doesn’t work in SPvP is a lack of escapes/mobility to correspond with it’s low HP/Armor.

Guardians doesn’t have either (escapes/mobility) and they are doing fine. Elementalist have very few damage mitigation skills. We have to rely on cantrips for defense and they all come with high CD.

In theory auras should be used to mitigate damage but for some old reason having an energy shield around you doesn’t block or minimize damage. All our weapons skills should have a couple of auras at 20-25 sec CD that blocks damage, but Arena net isn’t going to do that, not when Karl is still around.

Other than the odd Sunspot (which others have addressed) the Fire Spec looks very well consolidated and look coherent both mechanically and thematically. Adding more blinds or blind synergy would make less sense for the Fire Spec as it’s supposed to be focused on damage, burning, and conjures.

Though the Air Spec looks very odd in its current preview. In regards to this thread, Air does promote CC so I can see blinding maybe moved into this line. My current grief with Air is Bolt to the Heart not matching its thresholds with similar traits from other professions. If it was deemed too powerful for Adept I’d argue it’s not is the same ballpark as a GM. Let’s move it to Masters?

PlatinumMember.5274:

Kodiak.3281:

The reason why burst Elementalist doesn’t work in SPvP is a lack of escapes/mobility to correspond with it’s low HP/Armor.

Guardians doesn’t have either (escapes/mobility) and they are doing fine. Elementalist have very few damage mitigation skills. We have to rely on cantrips for defense and they all come with high CD.

They also have other ways to compensate built in on top of also having Heavy Armor from the get go. Also their offensive lines are tied in with their defensive stats, such as Valor adding large amount of Toughness while also massively boosting Hammer skills (Glacial Heart) as well as Meditations (Monk’s Focus). Comparatively it’d be like getting Fresh Air and Soothing Disruption in the Earth Line.

This is why Guardian makes a poor comparison compared to a Thief or Mesmer.

BlackBeard.2873:

Sadrien.3470:

Also if you like my ideas Arena-net please allow me to help you with more design balance I have the summer free and would be happy to help you then ( Note that especially the blind traits in the fire line are not final).

Hahahaha…do you really think this is going to get read by anyone at Anet.

You do have some good suggestions and its clear that you have a greater grasp on the true usefulness of some of the lines already. Even as an inexperienced designer, I would have more faith in you than the current designers.

I’m hoping that the game reporter person reads my thread and demands that Karl reads it.

Edit : enough devs read my posts to delete and move them around too lol so obviously at least someone with mod powers is looking at them. Also ty for the compliment ( regardless of whether or not it is a big compliment )

Dadnir.5038:

Fire magic
Every suggestion you did here feel like a nerf. How could this buff “burst ele”? The main issue is that blind disapear as soon as your enemy try to hit you, thus you can say that destructive ashes become useless 90% of the time. Pyromancer’s puissance is a strong trait in it’s current state (even for burst ele) and… you just nerf it out of the blue. Why?
Your idea for sunspot might be a good idea, thought. But, personnally, that’s all i’d take out of this traitline.

Air magic
Ferocious wind : seem legit.
Zephyr’s precision : too strong for a minor. It would just be better if they made one with air the minor and switch it with your Zephyr’s precision.

I like the critique. I disagree on the point of pyromancer puissance as an avid mid tier pvp player if you are camping fire long enough to get any reasonable amount of might you are already dead on a glass spec, my version was intended to be used mostly for things like dd or staff eles to allow them to enter fire attunement faster so that my lines are not only viable in burst specs. If you have suggestions you think will improve the fire line please post them here.

MAN.9046:

I don’t play ele, but i’m considering it as my next toon. From what i’ve seen, I thought scepter focus was a burst single target build?

Yes very high single target damage and some good AoE if you can land dragons tooth and Phoenix.

Kodiak.3281:

PlatinumMember.5274:

Kodiak.3281:

The reason why burst Elementalist doesn’t work in SPvP is a lack of escapes/mobility to correspond with it’s low HP/Armor.

Guardians doesn’t have either (escapes/mobility) and they are doing fine. Elementalist have very few damage mitigation skills. We have to rely on cantrips for defense and they all come with high CD.

They also have other ways to compensate built in on top of also having Heavy Armor from the get go. Also their offensive lines are tied in with their defensive stats, such as Valor adding large amount of Toughness while also massively boosting Hammer skills (Glacial Heart) as well as Meditations (Monk’s Focus). Comparatively it’d be like getting Fresh Air and Soothing Disruption in the Earth Line.

This is why Guardian makes a poor comparison compared to a Thief or Mesmer.

agreed, I like to compare classes within those of comparable trait setups so I compare elementalist to a mesmer in terms of balance / trait design.

savacli.8172:

Other than the odd Sunspot (which others have addressed) the Fire Spec looks very well consolidated and look coherent both mechanically and thematically. Adding more blinds or blind synergy would make less sense for the Fire Spec as it’s supposed to be focused on damage, burning, and conjures.

Though the Air Spec looks very odd in its current preview. In regards to this thread, Air does promote CC so I can see blinding maybe moved into this line. My current grief with Air is Bolt to the Heart not matching its thresholds with similar traits from other professions. If it was deemed too powerful for Adept I’d argue it’s not is the same ballpark as a GM. Let’s move it to Masters?

Love the feedback. I got that fire was a combined ash and fire ( so burning and blind) from the recent changes and built it around that concept. My specs are already changing the themes a little so that fire and air both take blinds along with another thematic option where as water and earth both have defense but in different ways ( damage reduction and healing/cleanse).

Edit: after numerous people requested blinding traits be moved to air I have edited this.

Kodiak.3281:

The reason why burst Elementalist doesn’t work in SPvP is a lack of escapes/mobility to correspond with it’s low HP/Armor.

When you look at the play styles of traditional high burst classes, namely the Thief and Mesmer, both have numerous escape tools to get out of hard situations. This show these classes deal with being focused, they can use stealth and mobility or clone generation. Their survivability isn’t tied directly to having to tank damage but rather avoid damage entirely.

Elementalist on the other hand lacks these escape tools and instead is expected/designed to take these hits and either mitigate them with Boons and recover from them with healing. However, because healing was repeatedly nerfed at release, in order to properly keep up with the amount of damage out there you’re instead forced to spec heavily into Water/Arcane to get enough boon generation and healing to get enough sustain for it to matter.

Realistically we should probably have our HP pool swapped with Mesmer but that would mean having consistent game design and I’m pretty sure the developers are against that because “ooo wow looky here the light armor pool is different than the medium woooo diversificationalism shiny special cases!!!11”

I think your wrong because light armor has a steady progression
Light: ele-mesmer-necromancer
Medium: thief-ranger/engi ( maybe this needs changed ???)
Heavy: guardian-revenant(i think this is below warrior)-warrior

No one replies to me at 4 in the morning /cry.

I think all the ideas are pretty good. The damage modifier on destructive ashes should be 10%. I would rather have a 66% chance to apply blind on targets I burn and increase the cd to 3s.

Changing the trait for glyphs to add a new affect to them is a great idea. Like lightning storm now pulses aoe blind. Ice storm becomes a field and cleanses conditions. Fire Storm gives you and allies within it 5 stacks of might. Sandstorm now pulses cripple.

Glyph of elemental power will also apply boons on the attunement it is activated in.

Glyph of Elemental Harmony- fire will give 10 stacks of might
water- healing in water will also proc healing ripple
air- gain 3s of quickness
earth- 2 stacks of stability.

Well, for me the fire magic line is already in a good shape. Like I said, pyromancer’s puissance is already pretty good in it’s current shape. Perhaps it doesn’t suit “burst ele” but it suit “sustain damage ele” which have it’s place in the game.

If you really look at it Fire magic work as an hybrid line focused on conditions and a bit of extra damage along with some self utility. It’s a good line for a lot of selfish build/gameplay. When I say that you nerf Pyromancer’s puissance it’s because it fit in a perspective of gameplay diversity while your version is simply useless (from my point of view).

On an other hand, Air magic is a CC/burst line with a bit of self support. Again, it’s a very selfish trait line but it’s here that lie the core of a “Burst build”. Inscription used along with glyph of lesser elemental have a lot of potential (just to say you got the boon when using the minion skill which have a really low CD. Also work with Pyromancer puissance ). Bolt to the heart will most likely become a 20% damage boost against foe under 50% life along the line of other profession.

Your aeromancer’s training trait is to strong. Anet had a good reason to create ferocity and a 150 ferocity buff is already good for a master trait.

NB.: Complaining about health pool and armor type don’t balance a game. In a lot of way, Elementalist if corectly traited have more survivability than the warrior (which is it’s total opposite). Beside, sometime a large health pool is more of a handicap than a low health pool. I think the Elementalist is pretty well balanced in this regard.

Dadnir.5038:

Well, for me the fire magic line is already in a good shape. Like I said, pyromancer’s puissance is already pretty good in it’s current shape. Perhaps it doesn’t suit “burst ele” but it suit “sustain damage ele” which have it’s place in the game.

If you really look at it Fire magic work as an hybrid line focused on conditions and a bit of extra damage along with some self utility. It’s a good line for a lot of selfish build/gameplay. When I say that you nerf Pyromancer’s puissance it’s because it fit in a perspective of gameplay diversity while your version is simply useless (from my point of view).

On an other hand, Air magic is a CC/burst line with a bit of self support. Again, it’s a very selfish trait line but it’s here that lie the core of a “Burst build”. Inscription used along with glyph of lesser elemental have a lot of potential (just to say you got the boon when using the minion skill which have a really low CD. Also work with Pyromancer puissance ). Bolt to the heart will most likely become a 20% damage boost against foe under 50% life along the line of other profession.

Your aeromancer’s training trait is to strong. Anet had a good reason to create ferocity and a 150 ferocity buff is already good for a master trait.

NB.: Complaining about health pool and armor type don’t balance a game. In a lot of way, Elementalist if corectly traited have more survivability than the warrior (which is it’s total opposite). Beside, sometime a large health pool is more of a handicap than a low health pool. I think the Elementalist is pretty well balanced in this regard.

Elementalist tends to have more survivability than Warrior because we always max out two lines that give us survivability…We never spec into damage lines unless we’re going full glass. Even then, ShoutBow Warriors can be pretty tough to kill anyway, so that’s a moot point.
We have the lowest health and armor and no real natural defensive mechanics, so we’re forced into 6 Water/6 Arcana(some builds opting for Focus, which can help stall for a bit, but it doesn’t really sustain for very long).

That being said, I think these changes help BURST Elementalists, but some are just not in-line with their theme, like Blinding Ashes having a chance to blind on Critical hits. How does that fit the Fire Line at all? The only similar trait is Burning Precision, which also doesn’t fit! Fire should be about sustained Damage, either Direct or Condi.
Having a little survivability splashed in(Blinding Ashes) to help out; something that is really lacking in our trait lines. What we really need is a way to add direct damage(currently lacking) and some cleansing/survivability(Make a trait that Cleanses 1 on Signet use or something or give us the ability to get Evades when we use Fire skill other than the Auto-Attacks; we could give the Ele a smoke “aura” while in Fire that lets attacks “phase” through you when you’re casting a Fire skill with X amount of cast time so Meteor Shower is excluded)

Right now, even if you’re trying to delve deeper into the Condi side of things, you can properly use Blinding Ashes(even if it’s not that amazing right now), but with a change like that, you’re just hurting all precision-excluding builds and barely helping the Burst builds. Blinds are best when controlled.

Malchior.5732:

Right now, even if you’re trying to delve deeper into the Condi side of things, you can properly use Blinding Ashes(even if it’s not that amazing right now), but with a change like that, you’re just hurting all precision-excluding builds and barely helping the Burst builds. Blinds are best when controlled.

I do agree with you here. Making Blinding Ashes blind on-crit makes it pretty useless, as blinds are only good really when controlled. All that blinding ashes needs to be a good trait is make the ICD a per-target effect (like glyph of ele power is currently). Even a 1s ICD that isn’t per-target makes the whole trait useless for burst-builds.

Of course, I am sure they are going to for the lowest-effort approach to eles b/c they don’t actually want to put any real effort into this class.

BlackBeard.2873:

Malchior.5732:

Right now, even if you’re trying to delve deeper into the Condi side of things, you can properly use Blinding Ashes(even if it’s not that amazing right now), but with a change like that, you’re just hurting all precision-excluding builds and barely helping the Burst builds. Blinds are best when controlled.

I do agree with you here. Making Blinding Ashes blind on-crit makes it pretty useless, as blinds are only good really when controlled. All that blinding ashes needs to be a good trait is make the ICD a per-target effect (like glyph of ele power is currently). Even a 1s ICD that isn’t per-target makes the whole trait useless for burst-builds.

Of course, I am sure they are going to for the lowest-effort approach to eles b/c they don’t actually want to put any real effort into this class.

Effort = Work
That’s a big no no.
Lets just push all the good traits in Arcana into GM so that Eles feel even more shafted and lets cripple the Air line for good measure.

I love this class, but sometimes I feel like there’s just nothing to do with it anymore.
I can’t enjoy Glyphs, Conjures, or Arcane skills in PvP unless I wanna feel useless for a while. Signets are starting to pop up more, but still completely overshadowed by D/D Cele Ele.
I personally hate the Scepter(it feels very clunky and unsatisfying to me; nothing like the fluidity of Daggers) so that’s out the window too.
Staff is only fun for me when it’s Zerker and it’s mostly just a gimmick as you’re probably going to instantly die the second a decent Thief looks in your general direction.

Here’s hoping the Tempest is fun to play :L

Malchior.5732:

Dadnir.5038:

Well, for me the fire magic line is already in a good shape. Like I said, pyromancer’s puissance is already pretty good in it’s current shape. Perhaps it doesn’t suit “burst ele” but it suit “sustain damage ele” which have it’s place in the game.

If you really look at it Fire magic work as an hybrid line focused on conditions and a bit of extra damage along with some self utility. It’s a good line for a lot of selfish build/gameplay. When I say that you nerf Pyromancer’s puissance it’s because it fit in a perspective of gameplay diversity while your version is simply useless (from my point of view).

On an other hand, Air magic is a CC/burst line with a bit of self support. Again, it’s a very selfish trait line but it’s here that lie the core of a “Burst build”. Inscription used along with glyph of lesser elemental have a lot of potential (just to say you got the boon when using the minion skill which have a really low CD. Also work with Pyromancer puissance ). Bolt to the heart will most likely become a 20% damage boost against foe under 50% life along the line of other profession.

Your aeromancer’s training trait is to strong. Anet had a good reason to create ferocity and a 150 ferocity buff is already good for a master trait.

NB.: Complaining about health pool and armor type don’t balance a game. In a lot of way, Elementalist if corectly traited have more survivability than the warrior (which is it’s total opposite). Beside, sometime a large health pool is more of a handicap than a low health pool. I think the Elementalist is pretty well balanced in this regard.

Elementalist tends to have more survivability than Warrior because we always max out two lines that give us survivability…We never spec into damage lines unless we’re going full glass. Even then, ShoutBow Warriors can be pretty tough to kill anyway, so that’s a moot point.
We have the lowest health and armor and no real natural defensive mechanics, so we’re forced into 6 Water/6 Arcana(some builds opting for Focus, which can help stall for a bit, but it doesn’t really sustain for very long).

That being said, I think these changes help BURST Elementalists, but some are just not in-line with their theme, like Blinding Ashes having a chance to blind on Critical hits. How does that fit the Fire Line at all? The only similar trait is Burning Precision, which also doesn’t fit! Fire should be about sustained Damage, either Direct or Condi.
Having a little survivability splashed in(Blinding Ashes) to help out; something that is really lacking in our trait lines. What we really need is a way to add direct damage(currently lacking) and some cleansing/survivability(Make a trait that Cleanses 1 on Signet use or something or give us the ability to get Evades when we use Fire skill other than the Auto-Attacks; we could give the Ele a smoke “aura” while in Fire that lets attacks “phase” through you when you’re casting a Fire skill with X amount of cast time so Meteor Shower is excluded)

Right now, even if you’re trying to delve deeper into the Condi side of things, you can properly use Blinding Ashes(even if it’s not that amazing right now), but with a change like that, you’re just hurting all precision-excluding builds and barely helping the Burst builds. Blinds are best when controlled.

I didn’t mean to write on crit there, it was completely accidental.

It’s still a Blind dependent on chance, which makes it less favorable then the current Blinding Ashes anyway :L

Malchior.5732:

It’s still a Blind dependent on chance, which makes it less favorable then the current Blinding Ashes anyway :L

Ok then do you have any suggestions on how I can make it not an on chance blidn and still keep it balanced ?

I’m thinking you have a 33% chance to burn foes you hit; blind foes you burn ( 3s ICD )

Dadnir.5038:

Fire magic
Every suggestion you did here feel like a nerf. How could this buff “burst ele”? The main issue is that blind disapear as soon as your enemy try to hit you, thus you can say that destructive ashes become useless 90% of the time. Pyromancer’s puissance is a strong trait in it’s current state (even for burst ele) and… you just nerf it out of the blue. Why?
Your idea for sunspot might be a good idea, thought. But, personnally, that’s all i’d take out of this traitline.

Air magic
Ferocious wind : seem legit.
Zephyr’s precision : too strong for a minor. It would just be better if they made one with air the minor and switch it with your Zephyr’s precision.

How is a 10% crit chance bonus too strong when it totals to a 6.666% damage gain in one attunement. Meditated math, used the wrong formula

Sadrien.3470:

Malchior.5732:

It’s still a Blind dependent on chance, which makes it less favorable then the current Blinding Ashes anyway :L

Ok then do you have any suggestions on how I can make it not an on chance blidn and still keep it balanced ?

I’m thinking you have a 33% chance to burn foes you hit; blind foes you burn ( 3s ICD )

I think the trait would be balanced if it were just “Blind foes you burn (3s ICD PER TARGET)”

BlackBeard.2873:

Sadrien.3470:

Malchior.5732:

It’s still a Blind dependent on chance, which makes it less favorable then the current Blinding Ashes anyway :L

Ok then do you have any suggestions on how I can make it not an on chance blidn and still keep it balanced ?

I’m thinking you have a 33% chance to burn foes you hit; blind foes you burn ( 3s ICD )

I think the trait would be balanced if it were just “Blind foes you burn (3s ICD PER TARGET)”

great idea!!!

Malchior.5732:

We have the lowest health and armor and no real natural defensive mechanics, so we’re forced into 6 Water/6 Arcana(some builds opting for Focus, which can help stall for a bit, but it doesn’t really sustain for very long).

I can’t agree with that there are other way to be survivable out of water and arcana. Elementalist aren’t forced in these two attunment. It’s just that most of the elementalist are used to depend on them.

natural defensive mechanisms :
damage mitigation :
Focus : earth 4-5, air 4
dagger : fire 3, water 4
staff : fire 4, earth 3
scepter : air 3, earth 3 (and 2)

Utility : arcane shield, mist form, conjure shield 5, signet of air

controle :
focus : air 5, water 4 and 5
dagger : water 3 and 4, air 3 and 5, earth 3 and 4
staff : water 4, air 5, earth 4 and 5

utility : signet of earth, signet of water

sustain :
focus, dagger, staff, scepter : all these weapon have skills that actually heal the user and even it’s teammate in water attunment.
Water field and blast combo, utility that grant regeneration when trait… etc.

condi cleanse :
focus : earth 4
dagger : water 5
scepter : fire 3
staff : water 5

utility : signet of water, cleansing fire, water elemental

This is just a quick look at it and i forgot a lot of them in the process but the elementalist have way enough tools at his hand to disregard the fact that he have a bit less health and armor. Beside he also have strong traits to support this (thus even out of arcana and water).

Well, excuse this post that rush a bit out of the elementalist burst change theme. Still, in my opinion, there is no need for more “blind” in fire attunment (except perhaps sunspot) and yes 10% flat crit chance on the adept minor trait IS to strong of a trait and that’s why I suggest that you switch it wit One with air (not that I am fond of one with air but I think it will be more fitting in this place).

Dadnir.5038:

I can’t agree with that there are other way to be survivable out of water and arcana. Elementalist aren’t forced in these two attunment. It’s just that most of the elementalist are used to depend on them.

natural defensive mechanisms :
damage mitigation :
Focus : earth 4-5, air 4
dagger : fire 3, water 4
staff : fire 4, earth 3
scepter : air 3, earth 3 (and 2)

Utility : arcane shield, mist form, conjure shield 5, signet of air

controle :
focus : air 5, water 4 and 5
dagger : water 3 and 4, air 3 and 5, earth 3 and 4
staff : water 4, air 5, earth 4 and 5

utility : signet of earth, signet of water

sustain :
focus, dagger, staff, scepter : all these weapon have skills that actually heal the user and even it’s teammate in water attunment.
Water field and blast combo, utility that grant regeneration when trait… etc.

condi cleanse :
focus : earth 4
dagger : water 5
scepter : fire 3
staff : water 5

utility : signet of water, cleansing fire, water elemental

This is just a quick look at it and i forgot a lot of them in the process but the elementalist have way enough tools at his hand to disregard the fact that he have a bit less health and armor. Beside he also have strong traits to support this (thus even out of arcana and water).

Well, excuse this post that rush a bit out of the elementalist burst change theme. Still, in my opinion, there is no need for more “blind” in fire attunment (except perhaps sunspot) and yes 10% flat crit chance on the adept minor trait IS to strong of a trait and that’s why I suggest that you switch it wit One with air (not that I am fond of one with air but I think it will be more fitting in this place).

Elementalist has great survivability cooldown skills. The problem for a burst ele is that they have long cooldowns and aren’t very good for disengagement (except lightning flash). The ele’s survivability skills are very good for a tanky spec, because you can heal up during that period of invuln. But for burst specs, this style of survivability doesn’t work as well because healing is less effective w/ low toughness. The top burst specs generally have more access to skills that let them disengage from the fight.

For example, thief has initiative-based stealth + port, both of which are great for disengaging. And mesmer has blink (comparable to LF for disengage but on a lower CD), and decoy, which is also great for disengaging.

I think the best avenue for giving a burst ele disengage potential would be through tweaking “One With Air.” The currently proposed duration buff might be enough to let the burst ele disengage via superspeed, but A.net will still need to figure some way to make the damage comparable to other burst classes (given that the spec is going to lose bolt to the heart and air mastery, while other burst classes are getting buffs to both damage and defense).

ResJudicator.7916:

Dadnir.5038:

I can’t agree with that there are other way to be survivable out of water and arcana. Elementalist aren’t forced in these two attunment. It’s just that most of the elementalist are used to depend on them.

natural defensive mechanisms :
damage mitigation :
Focus : earth 4-5, air 4
dagger : fire 3, water 4
staff : fire 4, earth 3
scepter : air 3, earth 3 (and 2)

Utility : arcane shield, mist form, conjure shield 5, signet of air

controle :
focus : air 5, water 4 and 5
dagger : water 3 and 4, air 3 and 5, earth 3 and 4
staff : water 4, air 5, earth 4 and 5

utility : signet of earth, signet of water

sustain :
focus, dagger, staff, scepter : all these weapon have skills that actually heal the user and even it’s teammate in water attunment.
Water field and blast combo, utility that grant regeneration when trait… etc.

condi cleanse :
focus : earth 4
dagger : water 5
scepter : fire 3
staff : water 5

utility : signet of water, cleansing fire, water elemental

This is just a quick look at it and i forgot a lot of them in the process but the elementalist have way enough tools at his hand to disregard the fact that he have a bit less health and armor. Beside he also have strong traits to support this (thus even out of arcana and water).

Well, excuse this post that rush a bit out of the elementalist burst change theme. Still, in my opinion, there is no need for more “blind” in fire attunment (except perhaps sunspot) and yes 10% flat crit chance on the adept minor trait IS to strong of a trait and that’s why I suggest that you switch it wit One with air (not that I am fond of one with air but I think it will be more fitting in this place).

Elementalist has great survivability cooldown skills. The problem for a burst ele is that they have long cooldowns and aren’t very good for disengagement (except lightning flash). The ele’s survivability skills are very good for a tanky spec, because you can heal up during that period of invuln. But for burst specs, this style of survivability doesn’t work as well because healing is less effective w/ low toughness. The top burst specs generally have more access to skills that let them disengage from the fight.

For example, thief has initiative-based stealth + port, both of which are great for disengaging. And mesmer has blink (comparable to LF for disengage but on a lower CD), and decoy, which is also great for disengaging.

I think the best avenue for giving a burst ele disengage potential would be through tweaking “One With Air.” The currently proposed duration buff might be enough to let the burst ele disengage via superspeed, but A.net will still need to figure some way to make the damage comparable to other burst classes (given that the spec is going to lose bolt to the heart and air mastery, while other burst classes are getting buffs to both damage and defense).

Which is included in my thread through all the damage mods, and for PvE where the survivability of one with air is unecessary I added a powerful stat conversion trait ( atleast powerful for its spot). And lightning flash doesn’t even work as a disengage if you used it to combo phoenix… a big reason why burst eles aren’t used in high tier pvp.

Dadnir.5038:

Malchior.5732:

We have the lowest health and armor and no real natural defensive mechanics, so we’re forced into 6 Water/6 Arcana(some builds opting for Focus, which can help stall for a bit, but it doesn’t really sustain for very long).

I can’t agree with that there are other way to be survivable out of water and arcana. Elementalist aren’t forced in these two attunment. It’s just that most of the elementalist are used to depend on them.

natural defensive mechanisms :
damage mitigation :
Focus : earth 4-5, air 4
dagger : fire 3, water 4
staff : fire 4, earth 3
scepter : air 3, earth 3 (and 2)

Utility : arcane shield, mist form, conjure shield 5, signet of air

controle :
focus : air 5, water 4 and 5
dagger : water 3 and 4, air 3 and 5, earth 3 and 4
staff : water 4, air 5, earth 4 and 5

utility : signet of earth, signet of water

sustain :
focus, dagger, staff, scepter : all these weapon have skills that actually heal the user and even it’s teammate in water attunment.
Water field and blast combo, utility that grant regeneration when trait… etc.

condi cleanse :
focus : earth 4
dagger : water 5
scepter : fire 3
staff : water 5

utility : signet of water, cleansing fire, water elemental

This is just a quick look at it and i forgot a lot of them in the process but the elementalist have way enough tools at his hand to disregard the fact that he have a bit less health and armor. Beside he also have strong traits to support this (thus even out of arcana and water).

Well, excuse this post that rush a bit out of the elementalist burst change theme. Still, in my opinion, there is no need for more “blind” in fire attunment (except perhaps sunspot) and yes 10% flat crit chance on the adept minor trait IS to strong of a trait and that’s why I suggest that you switch it wit One with air (not that I am fond of one with air but I think it will be more fitting in this place).

10% crit chance is not too high I explained it in mathematical terms… especially when you consider it is only in one attunement of 4…. ( and I didn’t factor that in because it is not quantifiable)

The blind on burn was pretty fine and fitting. Maybe just a bit less cooldown from 5 to 4. Puting it on crit feels like a big nerf. I agree when put on crit it fits more to air but ist completely diffrent. I want to use it with burning.

for Fresh Air Scepter/Focus, you would not get any better burst then that in this game. Look Phantaram does to people with that build.

The problem is, there is no room for error, one mistake and you are dead, we don’t have enough escape to be able to play that much glass cannon/spec.

Thief/Mesmer kitten hit the fans, stealth/reset comeback again. When we mess up, we die. I guess they should give our burst specs a stealth skill also, elemental camouflage, then I may start thinking about playing pure burst specs.

Otherwise, I can say I am middle tier and when I want to play a burst spec, I will play a thief, at least it gives me a chance to escape alive.

Sadrien.3470:

10% crit chance is not too high I explained it in mathematical terms… especially when you consider it is only in one attunement of 4…. ( and I didn’t factor that in because it is not quantifiable)

This is a place holder matter. You just can’t have a trait this good (And yes even if you see it as abysmal via mathematics it’s still very good) as the adept minor trait. And that’s exactly why I suggest that you swap him with One with air. That’s all.

posthumecaver.6473:

for Fresh Air Scepter/Focus, you would not get any better burst then that in this game. Look Phantaram does to people with that build.

The problem is, there is no room for error, one mistake and you are dead, we don’t have enough escape to be able to play that much glass cannon/spec.

Thief/Mesmer kitten hit the fans, stealth/reset comeback again. When we mess up, we die. I guess they should give our burst specs a stealth skill also, elemental camouflage, then I may start thinking about playing pure burst specs.

Otherwise, I can say I am middle tier and when I want to play a burst spec, I will play a thief, at least it gives me a chance to escape alive.

The set up for the burst is too high, on a med guardian I have to press 2 buttons to burst people as hard as a scepter ele going from earth to fire; on a mesmer and thief I can count on powerful stealth openers to gain the advantage in most cases.

The burst ele lacks so much factors respect to the rest:

1) Healing that does not rely on healing power
2) Offensive utility with an offensive facet
3) Better mobility maybe one with air will cover this

Supreme.3164:

posthumecaver.6473:

for Fresh Air Scepter/Focus, you would not get any better burst then that in this game. Look Phantaram does to people with that build.

The problem is, there is no room for error, one mistake and you are dead, we don’t have enough escape to be able to play that much glass cannon/spec.

Thief/Mesmer kitten hit the fans, stealth/reset comeback again. When we mess up, we die. I guess they should give our burst specs a stealth skill also, elemental camouflage, then I may start thinking about playing pure burst specs.

Otherwise, I can say I am middle tier and when I want to play a burst spec, I will play a thief, at least it gives me a chance to escape alive.

The set up for the burst is too high, on a med guardian I have to press 2 buttons to burst people as hard as a scepter ele going from earth to fire; on a mesmer and thief I can count on powerful stealth openers to gain the advantage in most cases.

The burst ele lacks so much factors respect to the rest:

1) Healing that does not rely on healing power
2) Offensive utility with an offensive facet
3) Better mobility maybe one with air will cover this

In the times condi meta was not so powerful and we could run around with Valkyrie Amulet and use s/d it was simpler having burst elements in dagger off-hand but yeah you are right Ele is no 2-button class.

But to say the truth I don’t enjoy Hammer Medi guard but the old sword/torch visually and play wise is awesome

Sadrien.3470:

Grand Master – Pyromancer’s puissance – Fire auras you apply reduce damage taken ( 15% )

Oh, god no. This would be awful. A GM trait for a burst build that revolves around having a fire aura (which is pretty bad anyway) that reduced damage taken? I don’t really follow here.

Sadrien.3470:

master- minor – Sunspot: Blind your target when attuning to fire ( AoE around target)

The problem with this trait is not its tier, but its ridiculous radius, this would solve nothing.

Sadrien.3470:

Adept – conjurer- conjure weapons have additional affects ( not sure about icebox but if they Nerf it damage making it support viable could be nice- icestorm on frostbow heals, lightning hammer applies vulnerable with each attack (2 stacks), you take reduced damage while wielding earth shield, fiery gs ( need better ideas), flame axe does increased damage to burning foes ( 10%)

Yeah, let’s make all the conjure weapon useless, so no one ever picks them up, same as with this trait. No one already uses axe and shield. If they nerf the damage from icebow and LH, do you think people will use it? Nope.

Sadrien.3470:

adept minor – critical blaze – ( 10% higher crit chance to burning foes )

Okay, why? What would be the point of this? Having a 10% higher crit chance only at some time in fire seems pretty bad and it also makes no sense as this trait line should revolve around power and and eventually condition damage.

Sadrien.3470:

adept minor – Zephyr’s percision: gain 10% critical chance while in air attunement

I would rather if they came up with something a bit more useful. Zephy’s speed is beyond useless but what’s up with you and crit chance?

Sadrien.3470:

GM – bolt to the heart – increase damage by 20% to foes below 50% hp ( this is only an average age 6.66…% damage modifier so it is not GM worthy. 20/3 = 6.66…)

They already said they will be modifying the numbers

Sadrien.3470:

GM minor – precise lightning – You have increased critchance vs blinded foes ( 20% )

Seriously, what’s up with you and the crit chances? Again, this would be pretty bad. The vulnerability is way more useful than 20% crit chance at a tiny amount of time since blinds get cleansed instantly.

Sadrien.3470:

Master – Powerful inscriptions – reduce recharge of glyphs by 20%, glyphs have addition effects based on your attunement:

Glyph of storms fire attunement-example- firestorm also grants might to allies in an AoE ( 5s duration 2 stacks per second )

First of all, they would have to make glyphs actually worth using.

Sadrien.3470:

Also if you like my ideas Arena-net please allow me to help you with more design balance I have the summer free and would be happy to help you then ( Note that especially the blind traits in the fire line are not final, moving most of them to air and adjusting traitlines right now).

Well, I doubt that they will even read this, let alone get someon from forums to help with balance. I don’t think any devs stepped a foot in ele forums in the last few months.

Kodiak.3281:

The reason why burst Elementalist doesn’t work in SPvP is a lack of escapes/mobility to correspond with it’s low HP/Armor.

When you look at the play styles of traditional high burst classes, namely the Thief and Mesmer, both have numerous escape tools to get out of hard situations. This show these classes deal with being focused, they can use stealth and mobility or clone generation. Their survivability isn’t tied directly to having to tank damage but rather avoid damage entirely.

Elementalist on the other hand lacks these escape tools and instead is expected/designed to take these hits and either mitigate them with Boons and recover from them with healing. However, because healing was repeatedly nerfed at release, in order to properly keep up with the amount of damage out there you’re instead forced to spec heavily into Water/Arcane to get enough boon generation and healing to get enough sustain for it to matter.

Realistically we should probably have our HP pool swapped with Mesmer but that would mean having consistent game design and I’m pretty sure the developers are against that because “ooo wow looky here the light armor pool is different than the medium woooo diversificationalism shiny special cases!!!11”

It’s not the only reason. If you look at the most played dps specs on EU, which is thief, medguard and mesmer, you can see they have lots things ele doesn’t. The lack of stealth, on demand interrupts or just some useful utility such as moa and aoe stability along with being extremely squishy and not mobile makes fresh air not attractive for teams. Once the class is out of cooldowns, it’s pretty much dead. Stealth and high amount of teleports is probably the only way a squishy class can work in conquest. Medguard doesn’t have either of those, but again it has insane sustain for a zerker spec with a good amount of useful cc. Ele just have none of those, the few long cast time interrupts won’t make up for it. So I agree with you that it has less survability, however it also brings basically nothing to the team except one deflect, which is not really that big of a deal.

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

snip

Oh, god no. This would be awful. A GM trait for a burst build that revolves around having a fire aura (which is pretty bad anyway) that reduced damage taken? I don’t really follow here.

Sadrien.3470:

master- minor – Sunspot: Blind your target when attuning to fire ( AoE around target)

The problem with this trait is not its tier, but its ridiculous radius, this would solve nothing.

Sadrien.3470:

snip

Yeah, let’s make all the conjure weapon useless, so no one ever picks them up, same as with this trait. No one already uses axe and shield. If they nerf the damage from icebow and LH, do you think people will use it? Nope.

Sadrien.3470:

adept minor – critical blaze – ( 10% higher crit chance to burning foes )

Okay, why? What would be the point of this? Having a 10% higher crit chance only at some time in fire seems pretty bad and it also makes no sense as this trait line should revolve around power and and eventually condition damage.

Sadrien.3470:

adept minor – Zephyr’s percision: gain 10% critical chance while in air attunement

I would rather if they came up with something a bit more useful. Zephy’s speed is beyond useless but what’s up with you and crit chance?

Sadrien.3470:

GM – bolt to the heart – increase damage by 20% to foes below 50% hp ( this is only an average age 6.66…% damage modifier so it is not GM worthy. 20/3 = 6.66…)

They already said they will be modifying the numbers

Sadrien.3470:

GM minor – precise lightning – You have increased critchance vs blinded foes ( 20% )

Seriously, what’s up with you and the crit chances? Again, this would be pretty bad. The vulnerability is way more useful than 20% crit chance at a tiny amount of time since blinds get cleansed instantly.

Sadrien.3470:

Master – Powerful inscriptions – reduce recharge of glyphs by 20%, glyphs have addition effects based on your attunement:

Glyph of storms fire attunement-example- firestorm also grants might to allies in an AoE ( 5s duration 2 stacks per second )

First of all, they would have to make glyphs actually worth using.

Sadrien.3470:

Also if you like my ideas Arena-net please allow me to help you with more design balance I have the summer free and would be happy to help you then ( Note that especially the blind traits in the fire line are not final, moving most of them to air and adjusting traitlines right now).

Well, I doubt that they will even read this, let alone get someon from forums to help with balance. I don’t think any devs stepped a foot in ele forums in the last few months.

The traits aren’t completely for burst builds ( I’m not only reworking those lol, Im reworking everything thats subpar, I prove most of this with math)…. having a fire aura up for your entire team permanently with this would be a huge buff to signet eles which have a trait that gives them fire shield on signet use, if anything my pyromancer’s puissance is brokenly op for a more supportive role ( this was not the trait intended to maximize burst, other traits cover this).

Sunspot – You response to this is completely incoherent, please actually explain your concern.

Precise Blaze – if this is so terrible isn’t the Gm minor horrible also? I mean really they are almost the same thing except this one is weaker.

Precise lightning – your right this is so terrible I will get a better idea but the roughly 2 stacks of vuln ( avg even if your using a long channel like air auto on scepter isn’t even close to what other classes get in the gm minor slot ( 5 – 10% damage modifier > 2%.)

OWA – is much stronger than a 10% critchance while in air… ( phantaram even uses it over bolt to the heart ( 6.66 avg damage mods rather than abismally low due to math) on some occasions before it is getting its duration doubled!)

Powerful Inscriptions – What are you talking about glyphs aren’t useful!!! an 8s blind spam across an entire point or blinding a boss in pve while you burst it isn’t valuable? ( in absence of thief for the pve one) oor lighting storm which causes 25 stacks of vuln ( amazing in solo content or low vuln teams for dungeons/fractals) and the goal of the trait is to make is strong enough in a support role to make glyphs a viable alternative ( having 2-10 stacks of might for 10s might not be very strong but the final goal is too make the glyphs usable so if it needs buffed it needs buffed.)

Dadnir.5038:

Well, for me the fire magic line is already in a good shape. Like I said, pyromancer’s puissance is already pretty good in it’s current shape. Perhaps it doesn’t suit “burst ele” but it suit “sustain damage ele” which have it’s place in the game.

If you really look at it Fire magic work as an hybrid line focused on conditions and a bit of extra damage along with some self utility. It’s a good line for a lot of selfish build/gameplay. When I say that you nerf Pyromancer’s puissance it’s because it fit in a perspective of gameplay diversity while your version is simply useless (from my point of view).

On an other hand, Air magic is a CC/burst line with a bit of self support. Again, it’s a very selfish trait line but it’s here that lie the core of a “Burst build”. Inscription used along with glyph of lesser elemental have a lot of potential (just to say you got the boon when using the minion skill which have a really low CD. Also work with Pyromancer puissance ). Bolt to the heart will most likely become a 20% damage boost against foe under 50% life along the line of other profession.

Your aeromancer’s training trait is to strong. Anet had a good reason to create ferocity and a 150 ferocity buff is already good for a master trait.

NB.: Complaining about health pool and armor type don’t balance a game. In a lot of way, Elementalist if corectly traited have more survivability than the warrior (which is it’s total opposite). Beside, sometime a large health pool is more of a handicap than a low health pool. I think the Elementalist is pretty well balanced in this regard.

until prove my math wrong I am the correct one in terms of how strong aeromancer’s training would be and you wont prove my math wrong because It is based off of well tested damage modifier principles)

FrownyClown.8402:

I think all the ideas are pretty good. The damage modifier on destructive ashes should be 10%. I would rather have a 66% chance to apply blind on targets I burn and increase the cd to 3s.

Changing the trait for glyphs to add a new affect to them is a great idea. Like lightning storm now pulses aoe blind. Ice storm becomes a field and cleanses conditions. Fire Storm gives you and allies within it 5 stacks of might. Sandstorm now pulses cripple.

Glyph of elemental power will also apply boons on the attunement it is activated in.

Glyph of Elemental Harmony- fire will give 10 stacks of might
water- healing in water will also proc healing ripple
air- gain 3s of quickness
earth- 2 stacks of stability.

Nice ideas… Mabye I shall add a quote of them to my list through the magic of chronomancy, Anways because the blind traits aren’t really fire oriented I will be renaming / moving destructive ashes into air line probably.

savacli.8172:

Other than the odd Sunspot (which others have addressed) the Fire Spec looks very well consolidated and look coherent both mechanically and thematically. Adding more blinds or blind synergy would make less sense for the Fire Spec as it’s supposed to be focused on damage, burning, and conjures.

Though the Air Spec looks very odd in its current preview. In regards to this thread, Air does promote CC so I can see blinding maybe moved into this line. My current grief with Air is Bolt to the Heart not matching its thresholds with similar traits from other professions. If it was deemed too powerful for Adept I’d argue it’s not is the same ballpark as a GM. Let’s move it to Masters?

Even with bolt to the heart being matching to other classes freshair will be much stronger for most builds (imo) and I see it being unused. Staff builds will likely still take lightning rod, but mabye for eotm full damage mods meteor and PvE it could be better but its still only a 10% avg damage mod in pve – equal to the fire master minor – not good) So I like your idea, but that slot is already stuffed full of good traits..

Sadrien.3470:

The traits aren’t completely for burst builds ( I’m not only reworking those lol, Im reworking everything thats subpar, I prove most of this with math)…. having a fire aura up for your entire team permanently with this would be a huge buff to signet eles which have a trait that gives them fire shield on signet use, if anything my pyromancer’s puissance is brokenly op for a more supportive role ( this was not the trait intended to maximize burst, other traits cover this).

Sunspot – You response to this is completely incoherent, please actually explain your concern.

Precise Blaze – if this is so terrible isn’t the Gm minor horrible also? I mean really they are almost the same thing except this one is weaker.

Precise lightning – your right this is so terrible I will get a better idea but the roughly 2 stacks of vuln ( avg even if your using a long channel like air auto on scepter isn’t even close to what other classes get in the gm minor slot ( 5 – 10% damage modifier > 2%.)

Zephyr’s speed – is much stronger than a 10% critchance while in air… ( phantaram even uses it over bolt to the heart ( 6.66 avg damage mods rather than abismally low due to math) on some occasions before it is getting its duration doubled!)

Powerful Inscriptions – What are you talking about glyphs aren’t useful!!! an 8s blind spam across an entire point or blinding a boss in pve while you burst it isn’t valuable? ( in absence of thief for the pve one) oor lighting storm which causes 25 stacks of vuln ( amazing in solo content or low vuln teams for dungeons/fractals) and the goal of the trait is to make is strong enough in a support role to make glyphs a viable alternative ( having 2-10 stacks of might for 10s might not be very strong but the final goal is too make the glyphs usable so if it needs buffed it needs buffed.)

1. As of now, Aura share only works with weapon auras.
2. Sunspot – the trait is not bad, but the radius is just a joke. Don’t want blind, tyvm.
3. No clue what Precise Blaze should be, didn’t find it in your post.
4. We have a winner! Zephy’r speed is the most useless trait elementalist has (10% movement speed in air), since it’s overwritten by something else all the time. And it’s minor btw. Phantaram actually uses One with air instead of BTTH. There is no trait that gives 10% crit chance in air. BTTH is 20% more damage flat when enemy is under 33% hp, pretty strong if you ask me. So maybe you should actually learn what traits ele has and then think about balance.
5. Glyphs:
8 sec of blind? Isn’t it more like 10 effectivelly? Anyways, 10 second of aoe blind on 60 sec cd is pretty bad especially when thief can do that (with much smaller radius) without any cd’s. Blind isn’t really that useful as cele specs are standing on point and dps might not even got hit, for stomping purposes you have thief. No one is going to waste their cd’s during Sandstorm and you can just move out of it.
LS: Yeah, 25 stacks of invuln if you’re lucky that gets cleansed instantly. Useless in pvp
Glyphs aren’t skills you’re going to use in pvp unless they completely revamp them.

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

The traits aren’t completely for burst builds ( I’m not only reworking those lol, Im reworking everything thats subpar, I prove most of this with math)…. having a fire aura up for your entire team permanently with this would be a huge buff to signet eles which have a trait that gives them fire shield on signet use, if anything my pyromancer’s puissance is brokenly op for a more supportive role ( this was not the trait intended to maximize burst, other traits cover this).

Sunspot – You response to this is completely incoherent, please actually explain your concern.

Precise Blaze – if this is so terrible isn’t the Gm minor horrible also? I mean really they are almost the same thing except this one is weaker.

Precise lightning – your right this is so terrible I will get a better idea but the roughly 2 stacks of vuln ( avg even if your using a long channel like air auto on scepter isn’t even close to what other classes get in the gm minor slot ( 5 – 10% damage modifier > 2%.)

Zephyr’s speed – is much stronger than a 10% critchance while in air… ( phantaram even uses it over bolt to the heart ( 6.66 avg damage mods rather than abismally low due to math) on some occasions before it is getting its duration doubled!)

Powerful Inscriptions – What are you talking about glyphs aren’t useful!!! an 8s blind spam across an entire point or blinding a boss in pve while you burst it isn’t valuable? ( in absence of thief for the pve one) oor lighting storm which causes 25 stacks of vuln ( amazing in solo content or low vuln teams for dungeons/fractals) and the goal of the trait is to make is strong enough in a support role to make glyphs a viable alternative ( having 2-10 stacks of might for 10s might not be very strong but the final goal is too make the glyphs usable so if it needs buffed it needs buffed.)

1. As of now, Aura share only works with weapon auras.
2. Sunspot – the trait is not bad, but the radius is just a joke. Don’t want blind, tyvm.
3. No clue what Precise Blaze should be, didn’t find it in your post.
4. We have a winner! Zephy’r speed is the most useless trait elementalist has (10% movement speed in air), since it’s overwritten by something else all the time. And it’s minor btw. Phantaram actually uses One with air instead of BTTH. There is no trait that gives 10% crit chance in air. BTTH is 20% more damage flat when enemy is under 33% hp, pretty strong if you ask me. So maybe you should actually learn what traits ele has and then think about balance.
5. Glyphs:
8 sec of blind? Isn’t it more like 10 effectivelly? Anyways, 10 second of aoe blind on 60 sec cd is pretty bad especially when thief can do that (with much smaller radius) without any cd’s. Blind isn’t really that useful as cele specs are standing on point and dps might not even got hit, for stomping purposes you have thief. No one is going to waste their cd’s during Sandstorm and you can just move out of it.
LS: Yeah, 25 stacks of invuln if you’re lucky that gets cleansed instantly. Useless in pvp
Glyphs aren’t skills you’re going to use in pvp unless they completely revamp them.

oops sry I got confused between zephyr’s speed and one with air, my mistake v( I wrote as if oyu were talking about OwA. I know the traits and Im working off the specialization traits incase your out of date and you were discussing my trait… I was in direct reply to your comment about it being to strong. Please actually read what I say in reply to your statements. The devs stated they intended to make aura share affect more abilities ( like signets ) unlesss I am mistaken.

If you check I have it written under my changes that they affect all auras you gain.

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

The traits aren’t completely for burst builds ( I’m not only reworking those lol, Im reworking everything thats subpar, I prove most of this with math)…. having a fire aura up for your entire team permanently with this would be a huge buff to signet eles which have a trait that gives them fire shield on signet use, if anything my pyromancer’s puissance is brokenly op for a more supportive role ( this was not the trait intended to maximize burst, other traits cover this).

Sunspot – You response to this is completely incoherent, please actually explain your concern.

Precise Blaze – if this is so terrible isn’t the Gm minor horrible also? I mean really they are almost the same thing except this one is weaker.

Precise lightning – your right this is so terrible I will get a better idea but the roughly 2 stacks of vuln ( avg even if your using a long channel like air auto on scepter isn’t even close to what other classes get in the gm minor slot ( 5 – 10% damage modifier > 2%.)

Zephyr’s speed – is much stronger than a 10% critchance while in air… ( phantaram even uses it over bolt to the heart ( 6.66 avg damage mods rather than abismally low due to math) on some occasions before it is getting its duration doubled!)

Powerful Inscriptions – What are you talking about glyphs aren’t useful!!! an 8s blind spam across an entire point or blinding a boss in pve while you burst it isn’t valuable? ( in absence of thief for the pve one) oor lighting storm which causes 25 stacks of vuln ( amazing in solo content or low vuln teams for dungeons/fractals) and the goal of the trait is to make is strong enough in a support role to make glyphs a viable alternative ( having 2-10 stacks of might for 10s might not be very strong but the final goal is too make the glyphs usable so if it needs buffed it needs buffed.)

1. As of now, Aura share only works with weapon auras.
2. Sunspot – the trait is not bad, but the radius is just a joke. Don’t want blind, tyvm.
3. No clue what Precise Blaze should be, didn’t find it in your post.
4. We have a winner! Zephy’r speed is the most useless trait elementalist has (10% movement speed in air), since it’s overwritten by something else all the time. And it’s minor btw. Phantaram actually uses One with air instead of BTTH. There is no trait that gives 10% crit chance in air. BTTH is 20% more damage flat when enemy is under 33% hp, pretty strong if you ask me. So maybe you should actually learn what traits ele has and then think about balance.
5. Glyphs:
8 sec of blind? Isn’t it more like 10 effectivelly? Anyways, 10 second of aoe blind on 60 sec cd is pretty bad especially when thief can do that (with much smaller radius) without any cd’s. Blind isn’t really that useful as cele specs are standing on point and dps might not even got hit, for stomping purposes you have thief. No one is going to waste their cd’s during Sandstorm and you can just move out of it.
LS: Yeah, 25 stacks of invuln if you’re lucky that gets cleansed instantly. Useless in pvp
Glyphs aren’t skills you’re going to use in pvp unless they completely revamp them.

oops sry I got confused between zephyr’s speed and one with air, my mistake v( I wrote as if oyu were talking about OwA. I know the traits and Im working off the specialization traits incase your out of date and you were discussing my trait… I was in direct reply to your comment about it being to strong. Please actually read what I say in reply to your statements. The devs stated they were going to make aura share affect more abilities ( like signets ) unlesss I am mistaken.

I did read what you said and replied to wat you said. And no, they said they’re thinking about it, hence why I said as of now it’s tied to weapons.

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

The traits aren’t completely for burst builds ( I’m not only reworking those lol, Im reworking everything thats subpar, I prove most of this with math)…. having a fire aura up for your entire team permanently with this would be a huge buff to signet eles which have a trait that gives them fire shield on signet use, if anything my pyromancer’s puissance is brokenly op for a more supportive role ( this was not the trait intended to maximize burst, other traits cover this).

Sunspot – You response to this is completely incoherent, please actually explain your concern.

Precise Blaze – if this is so terrible isn’t the Gm minor horrible also? I mean really they are almost the same thing except this one is weaker.

Precise lightning – your right this is so terrible I will get a better idea but the roughly 2 stacks of vuln ( avg even if your using a long channel like air auto on scepter isn’t even close to what other classes get in the gm minor slot ( 5 – 10% damage modifier > 2%.)

Zephyr’s speed – is much stronger than a 10% critchance while in air… ( phantaram even uses it over bolt to the heart ( 6.66 avg damage mods rather than abismally low due to math) on some occasions before it is getting its duration doubled!)

Powerful Inscriptions – What are you talking about glyphs aren’t useful!!! an 8s blind spam across an entire point or blinding a boss in pve while you burst it isn’t valuable? ( in absence of thief for the pve one) oor lighting storm which causes 25 stacks of vuln ( amazing in solo content or low vuln teams for dungeons/fractals) and the goal of the trait is to make is strong enough in a support role to make glyphs a viable alternative ( having 2-10 stacks of might for 10s might not be very strong but the final goal is too make the glyphs usable so if it needs buffed it needs buffed.)

1. As of now, Aura share only works with weapon auras.
2. Sunspot – the trait is not bad, but the radius is just a joke. Don’t want blind, tyvm.
3. No clue what Precise Blaze should be, didn’t find it in your post.
4. We have a winner! Zephy’r speed is the most useless trait elementalist has (10% movement speed in air), since it’s overwritten by something else all the time. And it’s minor btw. Phantaram actually uses One with air instead of BTTH. There is no trait that gives 10% crit chance in air. BTTH is 20% more damage flat when enemy is under 33% hp, pretty strong if you ask me. So maybe you should actually learn what traits ele has and then think about balance.
5. Glyphs:
8 sec of blind? Isn’t it more like 10 effectivelly? Anyways, 10 second of aoe blind on 60 sec cd is pretty bad especially when thief can do that (with much smaller radius) without any cd’s. Blind isn’t really that useful as cele specs are standing on point and dps might not even got hit, for stomping purposes you have thief. No one is going to waste their cd’s during Sandstorm and you can just move out of it.
LS: Yeah, 25 stacks of invuln if you’re lucky that gets cleansed instantly. Useless in pvp
Glyphs aren’t skills you’re going to use in pvp unless they completely revamp them.

oops sry I got confused between zephyr’s speed and one with air, my mistake v( I wrote as if oyu were talking about OwA. I know the traits and Im working off the specialization traits incase your out of date and you were discussing my trait… I was in direct reply to your comment about it being to strong. Please actually read what I say in reply to your statements. The devs stated they were going to make aura share affect more abilities ( like signets ) unlesss I am mistaken.

I did read what you said and replied to wat you said. And no, they said they’re thinking about it, hence why I said as of now it’s tied to weapons.

Why do care so much about removing an abismally low damage modifier and replacing it with something utterly useless….. And no you didn’t read it the way it should be read because the 10% crit chance while in air is one of my traits but your associating it with previous traits and an unrelated comment ? Regardless I’m writing based on my changed traits and the devs current specialization traits.

Dadnir.5038:

Fire magic
Every suggestion you did here feel like a nerf. How could this buff “burst ele”? The main issue is that blind disapear as soon as your enemy try to hit you, thus you can say that destructive ashes become useless 90% of the time. Pyromancer’s puissance is a strong trait in it’s current state (even for burst ele) and… you just nerf it out of the blue. Why?
Your idea for sunspot might be a good idea, thought. But, personnally, that’s all i’d take out of this traitline.

Air magic
Ferocious wind : seem legit.
Zephyr’s precision : too strong for a minor. It would just be better if they made one with air the minor and switch it with your Zephyr’s precision.

OwA is stronger than zephyr’s percision. Referencing phantarams use of OwA over btth when btth is stronger than zephyr’s percision and the OwA trait has not had its duration doubled yet.

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

The traits aren’t completely for burst builds ( I’m not only reworking those lol, Im reworking everything thats subpar, I prove most of this with math)…. having a fire aura up for your entire team permanently with this would be a huge buff to signet eles which have a trait that gives them fire shield on signet use, if anything my pyromancer’s puissance is brokenly op for a more supportive role ( this was not the trait intended to maximize burst, other traits cover this).

Sunspot – You response to this is completely incoherent, please actually explain your concern.

Precise Blaze – if this is so terrible isn’t the Gm minor horrible also? I mean really they are almost the same thing except this one is weaker.

Precise lightning – your right this is so terrible I will get a better idea but the roughly 2 stacks of vuln ( avg even if your using a long channel like air auto on scepter isn’t even close to what other classes get in the gm minor slot ( 5 – 10% damage modifier > 2%.)

Zephyr’s speed – is much stronger than a 10% critchance while in air… ( phantaram even uses it over bolt to the heart ( 6.66 avg damage mods rather than abismally low due to math) on some occasions before it is getting its duration doubled!)

Powerful Inscriptions – What are you talking about glyphs aren’t useful!!! an 8s blind spam across an entire point or blinding a boss in pve while you burst it isn’t valuable? ( in absence of thief for the pve one) oor lighting storm which causes 25 stacks of vuln ( amazing in solo content or low vuln teams for dungeons/fractals) and the goal of the trait is to make is strong enough in a support role to make glyphs a viable alternative ( having 2-10 stacks of might for 10s might not be very strong but the final goal is too make the glyphs usable so if it needs buffed it needs buffed.)

1. As of now, Aura share only works with weapon auras.
2. Sunspot – the trait is not bad, but the radius is just a joke. Don’t want blind, tyvm.
3. No clue what Precise Blaze should be, didn’t find it in your post.
4. We have a winner! Zephy’r speed is the most useless trait elementalist has (10% movement speed in air), since it’s overwritten by something else all the time. And it’s minor btw. Phantaram actually uses One with air instead of BTTH. There is no trait that gives 10% crit chance in air. BTTH is 20% more damage flat when enemy is under 33% hp, pretty strong if you ask me. So maybe you should actually learn what traits ele has and then think about balance.
5. Glyphs:
8 sec of blind? Isn’t it more like 10 effectivelly? Anyways, 10 second of aoe blind on 60 sec cd is pretty bad especially when thief can do that (with much smaller radius) without any cd’s. Blind isn’t really that useful as cele specs are standing on point and dps might not even got hit, for stomping purposes you have thief. No one is going to waste their cd’s during Sandstorm and you can just move out of it.
LS: Yeah, 25 stacks of invuln if you’re lucky that gets cleansed instantly. Useless in pvp
Glyphs aren’t skills you’re going to use in pvp unless they completely revamp them.

oops sry I got confused between zephyr’s speed and one with air, my mistake v( I wrote as if oyu were talking about OwA. I know the traits and Im working off the specialization traits incase your out of date and you were discussing my trait… I was in direct reply to your comment about it being to strong. Please actually read what I say in reply to your statements. The devs stated they were going to make aura share affect more abilities ( like signets ) unlesss I am mistaken.

I did read what you said and replied to wat you said. And no, they said they’re thinking about it, hence why I said as of now it’s tied to weapons.

Why do care so much about removing an abismally low damage modifier and replacing it with something utterly useless….. And no you didn’t read it the way it should be read because the 10% crit chance while in air is one of my traits but your associating it with previous traits and an unrelated comment ? Regardless I’m writing based on my changed traits and the devs current specialization traits.

For a minor trait it is strong. I don’t get how it’s abysmally low.
No, I’m saying 10% crit chance in air is bad. It’s worse than what we have now and what they proposed.

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

The traits aren’t completely for burst builds ( I’m not only reworking those lol, Im reworking everything thats subpar, I prove most of this with math)…. having a fire aura up for your entire team permanently with this would be a huge buff to signet eles which have a trait that gives them fire shield on signet use, if anything my pyromancer’s puissance is brokenly op for a more supportive role ( this was not the trait intended to maximize burst, other traits cover this).

Sunspot – You response to this is completely incoherent, please actually explain your concern.

Precise Blaze – if this is so terrible isn’t the Gm minor horrible also? I mean really they are almost the same thing except this one is weaker.

Precise lightning – your right this is so terrible I will get a better idea but the roughly 2 stacks of vuln ( avg even if your using a long channel like air auto on scepter isn’t even close to what other classes get in the gm minor slot ( 5 – 10% damage modifier > 2%.)

Zephyr’s speed – is much stronger than a 10% critchance while in air… ( phantaram even uses it over bolt to the heart ( 6.66 avg damage mods rather than abismally low due to math) on some occasions before it is getting its duration doubled!)

Powerful Inscriptions – What are you talking about glyphs aren’t useful!!! an 8s blind spam across an entire point or blinding a boss in pve while you burst it isn’t valuable? ( in absence of thief for the pve one) oor lighting storm which causes 25 stacks of vuln ( amazing in solo content or low vuln teams for dungeons/fractals) and the goal of the trait is to make is strong enough in a support role to make glyphs a viable alternative ( having 2-10 stacks of might for 10s might not be very strong but the final goal is too make the glyphs usable so if it needs buffed it needs buffed.)

1. As of now, Aura share only works with weapon auras.
2. Sunspot – the trait is not bad, but the radius is just a joke. Don’t want blind, tyvm.
3. No clue what Precise Blaze should be, didn’t find it in your post.
4. We have a winner! Zephy’r speed is the most useless trait elementalist has (10% movement speed in air), since it’s overwritten by something else all the time. And it’s minor btw. Phantaram actually uses One with air instead of BTTH. There is no trait that gives 10% crit chance in air. BTTH is 20% more damage flat when enemy is under 33% hp, pretty strong if you ask me. So maybe you should actually learn what traits ele has and then think about balance.
5. Glyphs:
8 sec of blind? Isn’t it more like 10 effectivelly? Anyways, 10 second of aoe blind on 60 sec cd is pretty bad especially when thief can do that (with much smaller radius) without any cd’s. Blind isn’t really that useful as cele specs are standing on point and dps might not even got hit, for stomping purposes you have thief. No one is going to waste their cd’s during Sandstorm and you can just move out of it.
LS: Yeah, 25 stacks of invuln if you’re lucky that gets cleansed instantly. Useless in pvp
Glyphs aren’t skills you’re going to use in pvp unless they completely revamp them.

oops sry I got confused between zephyr’s speed and one with air, my mistake v( I wrote as if oyu were talking about OwA. I know the traits and Im working off the specialization traits incase your out of date and you were discussing my trait… I was in direct reply to your comment about it being to strong. Please actually read what I say in reply to your statements. The devs stated they were going to make aura share affect more abilities ( like signets ) unlesss I am mistaken.

I did read what you said and replied to wat you said. And no, they said they’re thinking about it, hence why I said as of now it’s tied to weapons.

Why do care so much about removing an abismally low damage modifier and replacing it with something utterly useless….. And no you didn’t read it the way it should be read because the 10% crit chance while in air is one of my traits but your associating it with previous traits and an unrelated comment ? Regardless I’m writing based on my changed traits and the devs current specialization traits.

For a minor trait it is strong. I don’t get how it’s abysmally low.
No, I’m saying 10% crit chance in air is bad. It’s worse than what we have now and what they proposed.

The abysmally low is mathematically proven…. and how is 10% crit chance worse than an absolutely useless 10% movement speed increase? Can you pls explain how a buff overridden by any other movement buff in the game is useful ( and you are telling me to learn the traits lel) ? Also you said the fire version of the same critchance bonus is bad and this is too strong, kind of hypocritical.

posthumecaver.6473:

for Fresh Air Scepter/Focus, you would not get any better burst then that in this game. Look Phantaram does to people with that build.

The problem is, there is no room for error, one mistake and you are dead, we don’t have enough escape to be able to play that much glass cannon/spec.

Thief/Mesmer kitten hit the fans, stealth/reset comeback again. When we mess up, we die. I guess they should give our burst specs a stealth skill also, elemental camouflage, then I may start thinking about playing pure burst specs.

Otherwise, I can say I am middle tier and when I want to play a burst spec, I will play a thief, at least it gives me a chance to escape alive.

Phantaram does not play a pure burst spec, he plays a zerker build with 06044 which though glassy is not pure burst, and my mesmer can burst a zerker build 100-0 from stealth with almost no warning, same with my thief, in order to make up for the lack of stealth eles need more damage / healing / invuln/ damage reduction. The proposed changes by the devs nerfed freshair build damage by a large amount ( roughly 13% avg damage mods) and phantaram is the only tourney elementalist palyer I know of that actually runs that build, denshee and other great eles run d/d or d/f for these reasons and phantaram runs builds like these over freshair for the same reasons ( atleast part of the time).

Sadrien.3470:

phantaram is the only tourney elementalist palyer I know of that actually runs that build, denshee and other great eles run d/d or d/f for these reasons and phantaram runs builds like these over freshair for the same reasons ( atleast part of the time).

Just to clarify, Phanta never ran fresh air in an actual tournament, b/c fresh air is not tournament viable at the highest level. Zoose used to run it sometimes, but would readily admit it was better for his team to run Mes or thief.

When it comes to the proposed 10% crit chance instead of zephyr’s speed, I agree it would absolutely be an improvement. If they REALLY insist that it be movement related, take a page out of their engineer playbook (with robolegs) and have swiftness give +10% or +5% movement speed to swiftness while in air. At least then it wouldn’t be 100% worthless.