Kodiak X – Blackgate
My friend laughed at ele
necro has no stabilty
necro has no stabilty nor escape mechanisms
To make up for that they have like 40-50,000 health, plenty of fears, plenty of AoE damage, Minions some of which have stuns.
Also – they HAVE stability, not alot and needs to be traited but they have it and if they take one of the transformations then they have a 20(iirc) second one.
Ele, low damage, low condition damage, not alot of pressure(imo) and low health – what do they get to counter that?
I agree with necros having a lot of hp but fears.. I believe they have 2 (Staff and something. correct me if Im wrong) And…. lolminions. All the good necros I see dont have minions. I have seen plague/lich with wells and stuff. As for damage I am capable of doing 700 (1500+ on crit) with lightning whip and 4-9k with fire grab. We can’t spec full PTV and the same 0/0/10/30/30 traits. Condi Ele has never been useful. HP has never been a problem with the insane heals with Water and signet. Those are just some random stuff I want to throw out about what you said.
They have the Staff fear, the DS fear, the Spectral Walk (iirc) utility fear, then they have the traits to make them last longer, do damage, along with Torment.
As for minions they might have iffy AI but i see quite alot Minion Master Necros running around with the right build they can be traited to remove conditions, heal on attacks, cause Poison when they die and such. Then you got the Minion Elite which is pretty solid as well.
Ele might have all them heals, but they wont kill someone. I have fought plenty of level 80 Ele in WvW and unfortunately it ends in 1 way – they die or they run. Sure you can go “burst” but even then its not burst compared to other classes and means you even weaker.
Lol, this thread.
“Hey guys, my friend laughed at ele”
“LOL BECAUSE ELE SUCKS”
“No, ele is very strong in most areas of the game.”
“OK Fine, Ele sucks in tPvP. That’s what I meant all long!”
“Further, unless your r40+ in tPvP you can’t have an opinion! Hahaha!”Hm.
Nice. Further you could be more specific
“OK Fine, Ele sucks in tPvP (and add:only in the current meta, before that they were OP.)
as we know, metas change. This last one was for the worst for eles.
I love my Ele!!!
From an only WvW Ele, my Ele ‘role’ is not static but changes depending on situation; solo, party, party composition, guild, location, attacking or defending; thus my weapons, utilities and a few traits (within the current build) change accordingly
If I am running with guild or alongside a zerg; I am usually staff.
If I am running with a party; I am usually scepter/focus.
If I am running solo; I am usually dagger/focus.
My utilities thus change; Signet of air (when moving), armor of earth, ligthning flash, mist, Radiation field (asura here), Glyph of storms, Conjure Axe, hammer or shield.
My weapons are mixture of bloodlust, accuracy, renewal, leeching and hydromancy.
Yes, I die. Yes, I mess up sometimes thinking have one weapons set but actually have another. Or thinking I am hitting one utility and forget I changed it out for another.
The rest of you can stick with your static roles; myself I like the fluidness of the Ele. I am Jack of all rather then a master of one. I enjoy it.
necro has no stabilty nor escape mechanisms
To make up for that they have like 40-50,000 health, plenty of fears, plenty of AoE damage, Minions some of which have stuns.
Also – they HAVE stability, not alot and needs to be traited but they have it and if they take one of the transformations then they have a 20(iirc) second one.
Ele, low damage, low condition damage, not alot of pressure(imo) and low health – what do they get to counter that?
I agree with necros having a lot of hp but fears.. I believe they have 2 (Staff and something. correct me if Im wrong) And…. lolminions. All the good necros I see dont have minions. I have seen plague/lich with wells and stuff. As for damage I am capable of doing 700 (1500+ on crit) with lightning whip and 4-9k with fire grab. We can’t spec full PTV and the same 0/0/10/30/30 traits. Condi Ele has never been useful. HP has never been a problem with the insane heals with Water and signet. Those are just some random stuff I want to throw out about what you said.
They have the Staff fear, the DS fear, the Spectral Walk (iirc) utility fear, then they have the traits to make them last longer, do damage, along with Torment.
As for minions they might have iffy AI but i see quite alot Minion Master Necros running around with the right build they can be traited to remove conditions, heal on attacks, cause Poison when they die and such. Then you got the Minion Elite which is pretty solid as well.
Ele might have all them heals, but they wont kill someone. I have fought plenty of level 80 Ele in WvW and unfortunately it ends in 1 way – they die or they run. Sure you can go “burst” but even then its not burst compared to other classes and means you even weaker.
Staff fear is 1 second(1.5 if traited) on a 40 second COOLDOWN and can be dodged. DS is on a 20 second CD with the same duration. Specteral Wall i have never seen on a roaming necro ever. Minions are just inferior to the many other utilities necros have. Many wells and skills like corrupt boon can do wonders. I’m curious. Are the eles you fought just standard bunker 0/0/10/30/30 builds with full PTV? That build to me is just trash and unable to survive considering how much water magic got nerfed and how little damage you do.
IoJ→KN→DB→SoR→CD→SoR→TC → SBI
Scrub D/D Ele. What’s server loyalty?
Scrub D/D Ele. What’s server loyalty?
Staff fear is 1 second(1.5 if traited) on a 40 second COOLDOWN and can be dodged. DS is on a 20 second CD with the same duration. Specteral Wall i have never seen on a roaming necro ever. Minions are just inferior to the many other utilities necros have. Many wells and skills like corrupt boon can do wonders. I’m curious. Are the eles you fought just standard bunker 0/0/10/30/30 builds with full PTV? That build to me is just trash and unable to survive considering how much water magic got nerfed and how little damage you do.
I have seen quite a few go with the gfull Fear-nuke option, taking ALL fears, Terror (damage while feared), Torement from DS can all be very strong. Then you have just how much health they have, i mean its insane.
Sure the Minions arent that great, however they can be traited to be very solid if you are a minion master you wont be taking wells or corrupt boon so it doesnt really matter to them.
Since the corrupt boon nerf its not that great, taken down to 5 boons, sounds like a lot but when combined with the Epidemic nerf it hurts group fights. It seems like it, i dont think i have EVER encountered a Zerker ele
Staff fear is 1 second(1.5 if traited) on a 40 second COOLDOWN and can be dodged. DS is on a 20 second CD with the same duration. Specteral Wall i have never seen on a roaming necro ever. Minions are just inferior to the many other utilities necros have. Many wells and skills like corrupt boon can do wonders. I’m curious. Are the eles you fought just standard bunker 0/0/10/30/30 builds with full PTV? That build to me is just trash and unable to survive considering how much water magic got nerfed and how little damage you do.
I have seen quite a few go with the gfull Fear-nuke option, taking ALL fears, Terror (damage while feared), Torement from DS can all be very strong. Then you have just how much health they have, i mean its insane.
Sure the Minions arent that great, however they can be traited to be very solid if you are a minion master you wont be taking wells or corrupt boon so it doesnt really matter to them.
Since the corrupt boon nerf its not that great, taken down to 5 boons, sounds like a lot but when combined with the Epidemic nerf it hurts group fights. It seems like it, i dont think i have EVER encountered a Zerker ele
I am not talking about group fights but more 1v1. Zerker ele isn’t that good. I run a half knights with mostly zerkers and 1 or 2 PTV items for the other half. Minion necros I feel are too reliant on minions just like how condi eles rely on fire magic. Are you willing to spec 30 in death magic when Curses and Spite have much better options(IMO)
IoJ→KN→DB→SoR→CD→SoR→TC → SBI
Scrub D/D Ele. What’s server loyalty?
Scrub D/D Ele. What’s server loyalty?
I am not talking about group fights but more 1v1. Zerker ele isn’t that good. I run a half knights with mostly zerkers and 1 or 2 PTV items for the other half. Minion necros I feel are too reliant on minions just like how condi eles rely on fire magic. Are you willing to spec 30 in death magic when Curses and Spite have much better options(IMO)
The biggest problem to Minion Masters is the elites, they could rock in my opinion if they could use Lich Form but of course they cant as it removes all minions or at least it did when i last played.
“Condi eles” lol….
Ele is perfectly fine right now. The issue is that a lot of players came to Ele when it was completely OP. Now that it is more balanced, those people are complaining because it is no longer OP.
…VIDEOS…
I would say this guy is doing great dps. 3-4k lighting whips, 10k churned earths, 8k fire grabs…And he’s playing smart enough to survive well. Even his tornado is doing 2.5k’s. Yeah eles aren’t viable anymore.
I was roaming with him last night, we had 3 eles in party, we just kitten d everything we touched. So, I honestly don’t know what you guys are talking about. Getting tired of those whiny threads. Don’t like it? Re roll. I’m quite content.
This guys goes over his build. It relies on a broken WvW mechanic that allows you to get +2500 health. He even says his build isn’t viable without that mechanic, so you couldn’t work it his way unless your WvW rank is high and you go kill a few guards (not hard, just tedious to have to reset every time you die). Take away that 2500 health and all of sudden he dies super-quick. Also, I saw no 3-4K Lightning whips (max around 2500 on a crit against a glass cannon thief), so I am not sure what you are talking about..
Also, while you may have a lot of experience with other games that help you do ok with this class, if you want to understand the whines I suggest you just try another class and see how much more effective they are with a greater margin for error. If you are winning with an ele nowadays, you are most likely out-playing your opponent. Even in these videos his opponents don’t play their thieves great. They heartseeker at the wrong times, attack while he has protection/stability, waste initiative, and go defensive when they should attack. Quite frankly, they were outplayed.
Ele is perfectly fine right now. The issue is that a lot of players came to Ele when it was completely OP. Now that it is more balanced, those people are complaining because it is no longer OP.
“Balanced” it cant do condition builds, it cant do power builds it seems the only builds it can do are Support/healing and bunker. What about those of us that dont want to play a healer or want to play a bunker…
Ele is perfectly fine right now. The issue is that a lot of players came to Ele when it was completely OP. Now that it is more balanced, those people are complaining because it is no longer OP.
I got this game after the patch and the class feels lacking in potency, compared to other classes. All the abilities feel like they are either pointless filler or ineffective due to CD restraints.
The abilities do have a lot of variety in terms of utility effects, but are ineffective due to an inability to sustain any of those effects. At the same time, since each weapon’s skill set are designed around a specific playstyle, not being able to swap weapons effectively locks the class to one playstyle during combat, making it feel more restrictive than other classes that can swap weapon/playstyle on the fly.
Looking at the D/D loadout, I would argue there are only 6 or 7 unique skill types out of the whole set of 20 skills. Everything else is just filler/mirror of the same effect, with a different animation. Add to that their CDs are so long, that the class is “encouraged” to constantly swap attunements to just sustain DPS output, and the result is a pointlessly manic class.
(edited by Solkard.5136)
Ele is perfectly fine right now. The issue is that a lot of players came to Ele when it was completely OP. Now that it is more balanced, those people are complaining because it is no longer OP.
I got this game after the patch and the class feels lacking in potency, compared to other classes. All the abilities feel like they are either pointless filler or ineffective due to CD restraints.
The abilities do have a lot of variety in terms of utility effects, but are ineffective due to an inability to sustain any of those effects. At the same time, since each weapon’s skill set are designed around a specific playstyle, not being able to swap weapons effectively locks the class to one playstyle during combat, making it feel more restrictive than other classes that can swap weapon/playstyle on the fly.
Looking at the D/D loadout, I would argue there are only 6 or 7 unique skill types out of the whole set of 20 skills. Everything else is just filler/mirror of the same effect, with a different animation. Add to that their CDs are so long, that the class is “encouraged” to constantly swap attunements to just sustain DPS output, and the result is a pointlessly manic class.
The elementalist is a class for people that enjoy pushing a spherical boulder up a hill. It also seems to favor mindless button mashing with nearly no thinking involve. Essentially, just make a macro and win except for staff.
As u know im pro. ~Tomonobu Itagaki
This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.
This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.
Ele is perfectly fine right now. The issue is that a lot of players came to Ele when it was completely OP. Now that it is more balanced, those people are complaining because it is no longer OP.
I got this game after the patch and the class feels lacking in potency, compared to other classes. All the abilities feel like they are either pointless filler or ineffective due to CD restraints.
The abilities do have a lot of variety in terms of utility effects, but are ineffective due to an inability to sustain any of those effects. At the same time, since each weapon’s skill set are designed around a specific playstyle, not being able to swap weapons effectively locks the class to one playstyle during combat, making it feel more restrictive than other classes that can swap weapon/playstyle on the fly.
Looking at the D/D loadout, I would argue there are only 6 or 7 unique skill types out of the whole set of 20 skills. Everything else is just filler/mirror of the same effect, with a different animation. Add to that their CDs are so long, that the class is “encouraged” to constantly swap attunements to just sustain DPS output, and the result is a pointlessly manic class.
The elementalist is a class for people that enjoy pushing a spherical boulder up a hill. It also seems to favor mindless button mashing with nearly no thinking involve. Essentially, just make a macro and win except for staff.
Lol, so is your class and it doesn’t matter which one it is. That’s all any of them are. omg.
Ele is perfectly fine right now. The issue is that a lot of players came to Ele when it was completely OP. Now that it is more balanced, those people are complaining because it is no longer OP.
I got this game after the patch and the class feels lacking in potency, compared to other classes. All the abilities feel like they are either pointless filler or ineffective due to CD restraints.
The abilities do have a lot of variety in terms of utility effects, but are ineffective due to an inability to sustain any of those effects. At the same time, since each weapon’s skill set are designed around a specific playstyle, not being able to swap weapons effectively locks the class to one playstyle during combat, making it feel more restrictive than other classes that can swap weapon/playstyle on the fly.
Looking at the D/D loadout, I would argue there are only 6 or 7 unique skill types out of the whole set of 20 skills. Everything else is just filler/mirror of the same effect, with a different animation. Add to that their CDs are so long, that the class is “encouraged” to constantly swap attunements to just sustain DPS output, and the result is a pointlessly manic class.
The elementalist is a class for people that enjoy pushing a spherical boulder up a hill. It also seems to favor mindless button mashing with nearly no thinking involve. Essentially, just make a macro and win except for staff.
Lol, so is your class and it doesn’t matter which one it is. That’s all any of them are. omg.
what?(not trying to be rude or anything).
As u know im pro. ~Tomonobu Itagaki
This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.
This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.
Basically D/D Eles have become predictable like GS warriors. Biggest mistake Eles ever made. There was a time when d/d’s ruled close encounters, not anymore.
~ King Arian and Isabella of [EG] ~
Ele is perfectly fine right now. The issue is that a lot of players came to Ele when it was completely OP. Now that it is more balanced, those people are complaining because it is no longer OP.
I got this game after the patch and the class feels lacking in potency, compared to other classes. All the abilities feel like they are either pointless filler or ineffective due to CD restraints.
The abilities do have a lot of variety in terms of utility effects, but are ineffective due to an inability to sustain any of those effects. At the same time, since each weapon’s skill set are designed around a specific playstyle, not being able to swap weapons effectively locks the class to one playstyle during combat, making it feel more restrictive than other classes that can swap weapon/playstyle on the fly.
Looking at the D/D loadout, I would argue there are only 6 or 7 unique skill types out of the whole set of 20 skills. Everything else is just filler/mirror of the same effect, with a different animation. Add to that their CDs are so long, that the class is “encouraged” to constantly swap attunements to just sustain DPS output, and the result is a pointlessly manic class.
The elementalist is a class for people that enjoy pushing a spherical boulder up a hill. It also seems to favor mindless button mashing with nearly no thinking involve. Essentially, just make a macro and win except for staff.
Lol, so is your class and it doesn’t matter which one it is. That’s all any of them are. omg.
what?(not trying to be rude or anything).
(me either) The “mindless button mashing with nearly no thinking involve(d). Essentially, just make a macro and win.” If 4 attunements and 20 skills is that, certainly 2 weapon sets and 10 skills is not different. Engi is the exception to that number but not the ease of play. I don’t think the other classes are any less or more difficult btw. After a year and hundreds of hundreds of hours playing, it all is becoming so much easier. tPvP will always be the exception because the small differences in reflexs and reaction times of the player helps to determine the winner. But, for us hackers in Wvw and Pve? It is sheeer fun.
I’m so sorry you can’t 3v1 people anymore, maybe you should realize youre class is now what they call “Balanced”.
Ele is a very high skill celling class, pro’s do extremely well, and new players get destroyed.
Your friend probably didn’t have any idea of how Op Eles were at WvW.
3v1 .. I lolled. I think you mean survive against 3v1. Going bunker and killing 3v1 lol, were they afk?
Slasher Sladorian – Charr Warrior – [DECM] | Sea of Sorrows
Sophea Sladorian – Charr Ranger – [DECM] | Sea of Sorrows
Sophea Of Elements – Human Elementalist – [DECM] | Sea of Sorrows
Sophea Sladorian – Charr Ranger – [DECM] | Sea of Sorrows
Sophea Of Elements – Human Elementalist – [DECM] | Sea of Sorrows
I just wish people would stop using anecdotal evidence as their basis for argument.
Saying that you 1v3’d some people out of the blue and not even providing how you won or why they lost and then throwing everything behind it is just pure idiocy and egoism.
I’m sick of people like LightningBlaze cluttering up this forum.
Resident deaf elementalist – Tarnished Coast
Everyone needs a little optimism!
Everyone needs a little optimism!
I just wish people would stop using anecdotal evidence as their basis for argument.
Saying that you 1v3’d some people out of the blue and not even providing how you won or why they lost and then throwing everything behind it is just pure idiocy and egoism.
I’m sick of people like LightningBlaze cluttering up this forum.
That is probably because for PvE players 1vs3 means fighting solo versus some dogs kittens and lizards. In pvp, some times you can’t even run away from group of players. RTL is a joke, imo.
If there is one nerf I wish they would relax, it’s the RtL nerf.
Not the cool down mechanic. You can keep the cool down and the halves if you hit something part of it there. That’s fair.
Just the distance bit. I want my pre-nerf RtL distance back. I want to zoom across the field like I used to be able to.
I don’t need to spam it like in the past, but come on Anet, be merciful. Gimme mah old RtL distance back. Pleeeeeeeeease?
/puppydogeyes
I just wish people would stop using anecdotal evidence as their basis for argument.
Saying that you 1v3’d some people out of the blue and not even providing how you won or why they lost and then throwing everything behind it is just pure idiocy and egoism.
I’m sick of people like LightningBlaze cluttering up this forum.
That is probably because for PvE players 1vs3 means fighting solo versus some dogs kittens and lizards. In pvp, some times you can’t even run away from group of players. RTL is a joke, imo.
I found this Hilarious.
For WvW it is because 1vs3 means they beat up 3 lvl 1 up ranks. I don’t know why the nursery lets high school bullies in, but stomping 3 newbies is easy apparently.
Meanwhile back at the ranch, 1vs3 actually means that they can fight 3 people indefinitely never dying and never killing. Boring. I’d rather run a D/D destroyer build then some crap d/d fight 6 guys fore 8 minutes build. It was funny to watch the d/d eles die to me (pre nerfs), good old copy paste builds.
Slasher Sladorian – Charr Warrior – [DECM] | Sea of Sorrows
Sophea Sladorian – Charr Ranger – [DECM] | Sea of Sorrows
Sophea Of Elements – Human Elementalist – [DECM] | Sea of Sorrows
Sophea Sladorian – Charr Ranger – [DECM] | Sea of Sorrows
Sophea Of Elements – Human Elementalist – [DECM] | Sea of Sorrows
I’m sick of people like LightningBlaze cluttering up this forum.
There is nothing neccessarily wrong with players like him, they provide another prospective, I just wish that they realize that their prospective is extremely flawed. Beating players in WvW doesn’t really say anything about the class, because they are a lot of things that make WvW combat different from pvp. Not including the difference in the way certain skills operate, you got server bonuses, foods, rune combination, the fact that most t1/t2 players are simply headless chickens without a crew behind them.
I will say that the worst are the PvE heroes coming in here and acting like being good at mindless braindead predictable PvE mobs is something to be proud. OMG I can provide mediocre support and do mediocre damage = elementalist being good.
As u know im pro. ~Tomonobu Itagaki
This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.
This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.
Ele is perfectly fine right now. The issue is that a lot of players came to Ele when it was completely OP. Now that it is more balanced, those people are complaining because it is no longer OP.
I got this game after the patch and the class feels lacking in potency, compared to other classes. All the abilities feel like they are either pointless filler or ineffective due to CD restraints.
The abilities do have a lot of variety in terms of utility effects, but are ineffective due to an inability to sustain any of those effects. At the same time, since each weapon’s skill set are designed around a specific playstyle, not being able to swap weapons effectively locks the class to one playstyle during combat, making it feel more restrictive than other classes that can swap weapon/playstyle on the fly.
Looking at the D/D loadout, I would argue there are only 6 or 7 unique skill types out of the whole set of 20 skills. Everything else is just filler/mirror of the same effect, with a different animation. Add to that their CDs are so long, that the class is “encouraged” to constantly swap attunements to just sustain DPS output, and the result is a pointlessly manic class.
The elementalist is a class for people that enjoy pushing a spherical boulder up a hill. It also seems to favor mindless button mashing with nearly no thinking involve. Essentially, just make a macro and win except for staff.
Lol, so is your class and it doesn’t matter which one it is. That’s all any of them are. omg.
what?(not trying to be rude or anything).
(me either) The “mindless button mashing with nearly no thinking involve(d). Essentially, just make a macro and win.” If 4 attunements and 20 skills is that, certainly 2 weapon sets and 10 skills is not different. Engi is the exception to that number but not the ease of play. I don’t think the other classes are any less or more difficult btw. After a year and hundreds of hundreds of hours playing, it all is becoming so much easier. tPvP will always be the exception because the small differences in reflexs and reaction times of the player helps to determine the winner. But, for us hackers in Wvw and Pve? It is sheeer fun.
I get what you are saying, why think when your body has just memorize the patterns.
As u know im pro. ~Tomonobu Itagaki
This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.
This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.
Quick comment on ele “balance”. Roll any other class, do the same content. You notice how much easier literally everything in the game is when you’re not kitten?
Ele’s right now rival ranger for complete bottom of the barrel. In a group for anything (fractals, dungeons, pvp, even a squad in wvw) I wouldn’t voluntarily take either class. The other professions all outperform ele and ranger at everything – to bring one is to waste a slot.
I’m sick of people like LightningBlaze cluttering up this forum.
There is nothing neccessarily wrong with players like him, they provide another prospective, I just wish that they realize that their prospective is extremely flawed. Beating players in WvW doesn’t really say anything about the class, because they are a lot of things that make WvW combat different from pvp. Not including the difference in the way certain skills operate, you got server bonuses, foods, rune combination, the fact that most t1/t2 players are simply headless chickens without a crew behind them.
I will say that the worst are the PvE heroes coming in here and acting like being good at mindless braindead predictable PvE mobs is something to be proud. OMG I can provide mediocre support and do mediocre damage = elementalist being good.
I totally understand where you’re coming from. Really! I love an optimist much as the next guy (my email and account names always includes “optimistic”, lol)
But all I’ve seen from LightningBlaze isn’t positive posts on how he’s playing and building his elementalist differently as a case for argument. No, all he does for almost every post is to start with “I have a level 80 ele” then “I don’t understand why you people aren’t like me” and “Lol, ele’s are fine, you guys just need to learn to play” and the succintly ends with a “I also won a 1v+3, nobigdeal”
I realize I’m wasting my time talking about guys like him but I just want the ele forums to be a muh better place for rational discussion and constructive feedback.
Resident deaf elementalist – Tarnished Coast
Everyone needs a little optimism!
Everyone needs a little optimism!
Omg comparing staff Ele with thief sure will make a point.
I like the challenge. Ele has all the tools. Ppl just dont use them…
Firstly lvling ele isnt to hard if you know how, however compared to all other class ele is weak as.
~a challenge O.o, why i rather have all class be balance (that doesnt mean they have to be the same)
~Secondly having slow responsive casting doesn’t help in this fast pace game
~Thirdly i mean ok i have serious dmg, but that’s only good against dandy NPC which are kittened, but against players hooo hooo hooo
Your friend just doesn’t get the profession. No worries, not many people do. Those that do know most complaints are way over the top (and having been on both sides of the fence, I can say it’s not nice to hear you need to shap up to play ele, but sadly I have to admit it’s true).
I am sure that is totally the problem. It is not the classes it is most people, oops I mean noobs, having the problem. Afterall ballers like you don’t have a problem.
Over the years are I have played MMO, they always people like you that claim they are no issues with a class, it is because everyone else is bad, they are a pro at that class.
The reality generally is that be good at the class, but they are only good against noobs. Elementalist is one of those classes that against noob it is a strong class, in PvE there is almost no thinking involve so the elementalist in that scenario is also great. IN WvW, most of the flaws in the elementalist is made by the fact that gear+food + the downtime between fights is+ effect of the nerfs are less significant in PvE, but mainly because a lot of WvWers are not PvPer.
Like I said, it’s hard to have this discussion because there will always be people that won’t accept it (and I don’t blame them).
I don’t claim to be a top notch ele player. I’m not the guy that invented the evasive arcane style, nor the D/D bunker ele. But when it comes to eles, there’s 2 groups: those that get it and those that don’t. Unlike some professions, the ele’s effectiveness is directly scaled to the player’s skills. That’s a harsh reality to face for some, but that’s just the way it is.
Truth be told, after the recent patch, I don’t find many flaws in the staff ele anymore. Pretty much anything that was a true issue (and not just exagerated by unskilled players) was fixed.
But I get it that you won’t accept that from me. Just like I wouldn’t when I was in your shoes way back.
If you can read this then it is proof that ArenaNet’s moderators just, kind and fair.
Unlike some professions, the ele’s effectiveness is directly scaled to the player’s skills.
in that case, every ele i have fought AND killed have been awful. If its pure skill, they are no threat. I do not need to check what the build is or anything, what weapons they are using see what signets or what ever they are using. It is likely before Xmas being the last time i died to an Ele, though it seems that like 90% of ele that go WvW go Bunker which doesnt help the general fear of the class.
Your friend just doesn’t get the profession. No worries, not many people do. Those that do know most complaints are way over the top (and having been on both sides of the fence, I can say it’s not nice to hear you need to shap up to play ele, but sadly I have to admit it’s true).
I am sure that is totally the problem. It is not the classes it is most people, oops I mean noobs, having the problem. Afterall ballers like you don’t have a problem.
Over the years are I have played MMO, they always people like you that claim they are no issues with a class, it is because everyone else is bad, they are a pro at that class.
The reality generally is that be good at the class, but they are only good against noobs. Elementalist is one of those classes that against noob it is a strong class, in PvE there is almost no thinking involve so the elementalist in that scenario is also great. IN WvW, most of the flaws in the elementalist is made by the fact that gear+food + the downtime between fights is+ effect of the nerfs are less significant in PvE, but mainly because a lot of WvWers are not PvPer.
Like I said, it’s hard to have this discussion because there will always be people that won’t accept it (and I don’t blame them).
I don’t claim to be a top notch ele player. I’m not the guy that invented the evasive arcane style, nor the D/D bunker ele. But when it comes to eles, there’s 2 groups: those that get it and those that don’t. Unlike some professions, the ele’s effectiveness is directly scaled to the player’s skills. That’s a harsh reality to face for some, but that’s just the way it is.
Truth be told, after the recent patch, I don’t find many flaws in the staff ele anymore. Pretty much anything that was a true issue (and not just exagerated by unskilled players) was fixed.
But I get it that you won’t accept that from me. Just like I wouldn’t when I was in your shoes way back.
Skill doesn’t matter when the class itself is boned. Seriously, you could be god’s gift to ele’s, and you’re still not a threat to another player controlled character. Seriously, any player who’s paying attention will only ever allow 2 ele skills to land. Most of the skills can be stepped away from, no dodge needed. There are a very few where someone will have to burn a dodge, but that’s it.
Were ele’s alright, they’d have a heavy presence anywhere other than overworld PvE.
Also:
Ele is a very high skill celling class, pro’s do extremely well, and new players get destroyed.
Pros rerolled.
this.
this
and should be more then a CLEAR sign that something is utterly broken when the best players reroll simply to be able to keep competing.. its a sad sight when that happens
Your friend just doesn’t get the profession. No worries, not many people do. Those that do know most complaints are way over the top (and having been on both sides of the fence, I can say it’s not nice to hear you need to shap up to play ele, but sadly I have to admit it’s true).
I am sure that is totally the problem. It is not the classes it is most people, oops I mean noobs, having the problem. Afterall ballers like you don’t have a problem.
Over the years are I have played MMO, they always people like you that claim they are no issues with a class, it is because everyone else is bad, they are a pro at that class.
The reality generally is that be good at the class, but they are only good against noobs. Elementalist is one of those classes that against noob it is a strong class, in PvE there is almost no thinking involve so the elementalist in that scenario is also great. IN WvW, most of the flaws in the elementalist is made by the fact that gear+food + the downtime between fights is+ effect of the nerfs are less significant in PvE, but mainly because a lot of WvWers are not PvPer.
Like I said, it’s hard to have this discussion because there will always be people that won’t accept it (and I don’t blame them).
I don’t claim to be a top notch ele player. I’m not the guy that invented the evasive arcane style, nor the D/D bunker ele. But when it comes to eles, there’s 2 groups: those that get it and those that don’t. Unlike some professions, the ele’s effectiveness is directly scaled to the player’s skills. That’s a harsh reality to face for some, but that’s just the way it is.
Truth be told, after the recent patch, I don’t find many flaws in the staff ele anymore. Pretty much anything that was a true issue (and not just exagerated by unskilled players) was fixed.
But I get it that you won’t accept that from me. Just like I wouldn’t when I was in your shoes way back.
Skill doesn’t matter when the class itself is boned. Seriously, you could be god’s gift to ele’s, and you’re still not a threat to another player controlled character. Seriously, any player who’s paying attention will only ever allow 2 ele skills to land. Most of the skills can be stepped away from, no dodge needed. There are a very few where someone will have to burn a dodge, but that’s it.
Were ele’s alright, they’d have a heavy presence anywhere other than overworld PvE.
Oh god, so right. I am constantly amazed by how often spells hit when watching “pro ele vids”. I’m screaming in my head, “That was so obvious, why didn’t you dodge that??” It’s crazy that so many of our spells are so easily telegraphed and the more instant casts are easy to predict (fire 2, 3, 4 already used? expect a fire 5)
Resident deaf elementalist – Tarnished Coast
Everyone needs a little optimism!
Everyone needs a little optimism!
I’m gonna quote a very respected and veteran WvW commander here. He said this while our guild was forming up.
’ We are a little low on eles tonight, expect the run to be harder than usual. ’
Now, you may have your opinion, but elementalists who have mastered their class are parts of a team who simply can’t be replaced by any other class.
Here is my hypothesis of why they are ignoring the ele atm. First off, the devs are well aware of the current condition meta and they are looking into this issue. Necro still needs a nerf, whether that be the destruction of terror builds, or less condition spam. IMO all classes that have the ability to burst people with conditions needs to be fixed. That is engie,mesmer and necro. Classes should never have been able to use conditions as a burst mechanic.
One of the main reasons ele is not so viable anymore is our low hp pool vs the amount of conditions being stacked on us. Once they figure out a way to counter this meta, I bet we will be seeing more elementalists roaming around.
Given the way developers want this class to go, rtl should not be reverted. Our class should never have been given the abilty to run from a fight and go right back in.
First off, our low hp pool needs to be on par with mesmer at least. Giving us only 10k vitality only hurts the fact that we should invest 30 into water.
Second, I don’t see the arcana trait line changing given the fact that the fresh air trait is what it is. The earth trait line needs more protection/stabilty durations and traits that encourage survivabilty while offering bleeds on crit. We generally have long duration bleeds that take a long time to stack and, therefore, the earth trait line needs more stabilty options and better protection upkeep/toughness increases. This will help with churn uses/ surviving enough to put stacks on the opponent without it being cleansed in 10 seconds.
Third, Fire needs to be completely reworked. Flamebarrior and Sunspot need to be in all attunements. It is stupid to give burning procs in a attunement where half the skills cause burning while burning is a duration stat. It needs to be given more survivabilty options. Ive seen great ideas, such as adding smoke fields in this attunement for some stealth abilty. The might stacking skills need to all be changed. No one is going to activate a signet for a 3s fire shield. I wouldn’t even activate a signet for their active abilties. The charge concept on conjures is stupid because people need to drop the weapon so they don’t get killed (making them like kits would be great).
All the other trait lines are just fine. They should encourage staying in earth attunement in the earth trait line and add better chances to damage the enemy while not in fire for the fire trait line.
Once they fix the condition meta you will see an increase in survivabilty. Once they fix these two trait lines you will see an increase in diverse builds. Our utilities also need love. That is all that needs to be fixed.
Bad Elementalist
(edited by FrownyClown.8402)
Elementists are still ok in my books because of 1 major reason. all the other classes are being nerfed endlessly as well so I can accept while we contuine to become weaker the others are following as well.
#ELEtism
Elementists are still ok in my books because of 1 major reason. all the other classes are being nerfed endlessly as well so I can accept while we contuine to become weaker the others are following as well.
But they aren’t.
IMO all classes that have the ability to burst people with conditions needs to be fixed. That is engie,mesmer and necro. Classes should never have been able to use conditions as a burst mechanic.
One of the main reasons ele is not so viable anymore is our low hp pool vs the amount of conditions being stacked on us.
Just curious, have you actually played a Condition Mesmer? Bleeding, Confusion and Burning are the ONLY conditions they can easily apply. Everything else relies on RNG and even then Bleeding is from a trait and Confusion is a trait and ONE weapon that isnt RNG and burning is on ONE weapon that isnt RNG
Greatsword – Cripple, Vul, Bleeding(Trait)
Staff – Bleeding, Burning, Vul, Confusion , Chill, Poison, Weakness – ALL RNG with shield and AoE are easy to not hit someone with so that would remove by dodging or just not hitting them Confusion, Chill, Poison and weakness is then not applied
Scepter – Confusion, Torment – The torment can easily be wasted by not hitting them.
Sword(MH) – Vul, Cripple, Bleeding(Traited)
Sword(OH) – Bleeding(Triated)
Pistol – Blind, Bleeding(Traited)
Focus – Bleeding(Traited), Cripple
Torch – Burning, Blind, Bleeding(Traited), Confusion – Confusion i wasted if out of range and really low duration and stack Burning here is the ONLY reliable burning we have
So though we have a decent amount, look at how much of it relies on RNG or traits. Our best weapon for variety of conditions is Staff and that variety comes at the cost of RNG, we cant trait to make X condition better, other then Confusion.
I think its BETTER that way, other classes can trait for the conditions they can burst, we simply cant, why do you think you dont see many Condition Mesmers for?
3v1 against scrubs who prefer to pewpew with shortbow instead of rezzing. Winning 2v1 is extremely hard against people similiary skilled.
I would say it is not possible at all. This game balance is not that bad. Even when you fight current best possible build against 2 average or even weak builds but those 2 ppl know what they do the two will win or in worst case scenario draw but only if the “best build” will be 100% tou/hp/heal tank.
Ofc I know Daphoenix wvw movies that says I am wrong but seriously 2 good players (not necessary as good as daphoenix is) would take him down in less than 30-40s.
Dapheonix was only good at running. Never kills anyone in his recent videos and quit the game after they nerfed hylek potions. He was only good at area fighting and popping his great sword. He almost never showed open field fights after the rtl nerf
Bad Elementalist
… Never kills anyone…
…and in tpvp it is still a win – ofc if you defend node. Aslo surviving 5+ wvw average/baddies for 10 minutes as he did I will still call a win (ofc on ele, cuz on d/p thief you can kite/kill indefinitely and its not a win but standard easy gameplay).
Also I think Daphoenix was not only good at running – he was overall good player.
I’ve never seen dapheonix do a 1v1 or just engage a group in open field so I wouldn’t know.
Bad Elementalist
Skill doesn’t matter when the class itself is boned. Seriously, you could be god’s gift to ele’s, and you’re still not a threat to another player controlled character. Seriously, any player who’s paying attention will only ever allow 2 ele skills to land. Most of the skills can be stepped away from, no dodge needed. There are a very few where someone will have to burn a dodge, but that’s it.
Were ele’s alright, they’d have a heavy presence anywhere other than overworld PvE.
My guess is you’re the one who’s boned, because I’m not experiencing the issues you’re mentioning. But since very few people will even TRY to duel with staff, how can you expect hordes of staff eles in WvW? It’s circular reasoning: eles suck so nobody will play them so nobody will play them well so they suck. Sure, staff was never meant to be the top duelling weapon, but claiming you won’t land a hit is just plain false.
Feel free to disagree, because I disagree with you.
If you can read this then it is proof that ArenaNet’s moderators just, kind and fair.
Also:
Ele is a very high skill celling class, pro’s do extremely well, and new players get destroyed.
Pros rerolled.
this.
this
and should be more then a CLEAR sign that something is utterly broken when the best players reroll simply to be able to keep competing.. its a sad sight when that happens
I agree, this^
Skill doesn’t matter when the class itself is boned. Seriously, you could be god’s gift to ele’s, and you’re still not a threat to another player controlled character. Seriously, any player who’s paying attention will only ever allow 2 ele skills to land. Most of the skills can be stepped away from, no dodge needed. There are a very few where someone will have to burn a dodge, but that’s it.
Were ele’s alright, they’d have a heavy presence anywhere other than overworld PvE.
My guess is you’re the one who’s boned, because I’m not experiencing the issues you’re mentioning. But since very few people will even TRY to duel with staff, how can you expect hordes of staff eles in WvW? It’s circular reasoning: eles suck so nobody will play them so nobody will play them well so they suck. Sure, staff was never meant to be the top duelling weapon, but claiming you won’t land a hit is just plain false.
Feel free to disagree, because I disagree with you.
Dude, I played ele, a lot. Then I just stopped, completely. Doing more work for less output, regardless of the situation, is bad. The truly sad aspect of this is twofold; one is that it would be extremely easy to fix. The second is so many people who deny there are problems.
Each blatant problem has been brought up before, and as always, the people who believe the ele is fine crawl out of the woodwork and actively object to suggestions that would improve the class.
If you recall, Thi, I’ve suggested numerous things that would improve the ele – and we don’t get them. Since I’ve grown tired of bashing my face against a wall to no avail, the simplest option was to roll another class, and actually have fun.
Anyway, there’s no so blind as those who will not see, so there’s no point continuing this.
Later, eh?
Stale
Also:
Ele is a very high skill celling class, pro’s do extremely well, and new players get destroyed.
Pros rerolled.
this.
this
and should be more then a CLEAR sign that something is utterly broken when the best players reroll simply to be able to keep competing.. its a sad sight when that happens
Don’t forget the ones who outright left the game.
Skill doesn’t matter when the class itself is boned. Seriously, you could be god’s gift to ele’s, and you’re still not a threat to another player controlled character. Seriously, any player who’s paying attention will only ever allow 2 ele skills to land. Most of the skills can be stepped away from, no dodge needed. There are a very few where someone will have to burn a dodge, but that’s it.
Were ele’s alright, they’d have a heavy presence anywhere other than overworld PvE.
My guess is you’re the one who’s boned, because I’m not experiencing the issues you’re mentioning. But since very few people will even TRY to duel with staff, how can you expect hordes of staff eles in WvW? It’s circular reasoning: eles suck so nobody will play them so nobody will play them well so they suck. Sure, staff was never meant to be the top duelling weapon, but claiming you won’t land a hit is just plain false.
Feel free to disagree, because I disagree with you.
Dude, I played ele, a lot. Then I just stopped, completely. Doing more work for less output, regardless of the situation, is bad. The truly sad aspect of this is twofold; one is that it would be extremely easy to fix. The second is so many people who deny there are problems.
Each blatant problem has been brought up before, and as always, the people who believe the ele is fine crawl out of the woodwork and actively object to suggestions that would improve the class.
If you recall, Thi, I’ve suggested numerous things that would improve the ele – and we don’t get them. Since I’ve grown tired of bashing my face against a wall to no avail, the simplest option was to roll another class, and actually have fun.
Anyway, there’s no so blind as those who will not see, so there’s no point continuing this.
Later, eh?
Stale
Not too sure why you are concern with what he says, it feels like he is just punking us or laughing as he types each ridiculous comment.
As u know im pro. ~Tomonobu Itagaki
This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.
This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.
Pre-emptive list of the blatant problems, before someone goes asking;
Attunement swapping is far too long when untraited – it should match weapon swap (10s) with a minimum possible time of 7s when traited 30 into arcana.
Earth and Fire are useless lines – they’re both two concerned with their own attunements. Making the effects more universal would help.
Water is too good as it is – all our survivability is in water. Add to that the blatant need for HP ele’s have, and it’s a no-brainer to blow 1/3 (minimum) of your points in water.
Every weapon attack is too slow, barring air 2 on staff. Our hardest hitting skills don’t require an opponent to dodge – they can literally walk out of the area before taking damage. Shortening the animation time, aftercast delay, and recharge would go miles toward making ele’s more offensive.
Focus – swap the water skills on dagger offhand with the water skills on focus, and you’ve done two things – one is to make the D/D spec less survivable, which would go a ways towards mitigating future nerfs. The second would be to improve focus offhand.
Base Health is far too low. I know thieves and guardians share it, but thieves have effective immortality if they’re paying attention (ability to leave any fight on a whim when it’s going poorly) and guardians have far better armour/boon application/healing than ele’s can put out. Ele’s need either a boost to our base HP, or some mechanic that offsets the weakness we’re operating under.
There are others, but the above are the one’s that would be easiest to fix. Each one has been suggested numerous times, and each time some keyboard hero comes along and claims that ele’s are perfect as they are.
Earth and Fire are useless lines – they’re both two concerned with their own attunements. Making the effects more universal would help.
Water is too good as it is – all our survivability is in water. Add to that the blatant need for HP ele’s have, and it’s a no-brainer to blow 1/3 (minimum) of your points in water.
Stale, I agree with 90% of what you wrote, but I don’t completely agree here. Fire, is largely useless, I will give you that.
Earth, however, has some Amazing offensive and defensive traits. Many traits are good/great, and I frequently want many of them (meaning they are good). The only really bad ones are I: Obsidian Focus (who is going to make a channel build to spam #1 in scepter), VII: Strength of Stone (+10% damage in earth, the defensive/condi attunement, and XI: Diamond Skin (way too weak for a GM trait). The others have their uses, although a slight buff wouldn’t be out of place.
Water, likewise is really necessary only up to 15 for the master-level minor trait (healing ripple) + condi-clear on swap. Beyond that, there are still some powerful skills, but they are competitive with other lines. I never take less than Cleansing wave (condi-clear on water-swap) and always try for healing ripple, but can survive without that with evasive arcana. However, without at least one of the 2, we are DOA unless you have some one-shot everything burst.
Arcana gets all of the best skills (Elemental Attunement, Renewing Stamina, Blasting Staff, EA, and Arcane Fury) on top of being necessary for properly switching attunements (which is necessary b/c our autos stink).
Played Warrior with under 1h of playtime in soloQ tPvP yesterday.
I can see now. 1vs3 against 2 Eles and one Necro. The eles just died as collateral damage while I was killing the Necro. I dropped to 15k hp eventually.
Thief | Zumy [Buka]
Legendary counter: Twilight, Bolt, Incinerator, Incinerator Nr. 2, Meteorlogicus, The Dreamer
Legendary counter: Twilight, Bolt, Incinerator, Incinerator Nr. 2, Meteorlogicus, The Dreamer