Guild Wars 2

On 15sec cd rtl, ranger still have more mobility with gs and sword/warhorn by quite a bit, and thieves could be more mobile if they used the shadowstep utility and/or burned some initiative. I didn’t know that necros have any mobility though, how does that work?

Anyway, ele is probably around 4/5th in mobility atm, depending on this necro mobility thing.

Pre-pre-patch, I couldn’t catch up to a thief if he was burning everything he had. Likewise, he couldn’t kill me since while he could catch up to me, he had no initiative to actually hurt me and pretty much presented himself on a silver platter.

I only met one warrior back then that could match me in speed but none that were faster. All things considered that would mean that they had at least as much mobility as us as long as they specced for it.

I have never faced mobility specced rangers before so I can’t comment on them, pre-pre, pre, or post patch.

I would hypothesis that in terms of absolute best speed. We were ranked #2, pre-pre patch. #2-3 pre patch. and we’re probably #4-5 now.

does anyone think Anet has seen this thread? not necessarily about the ele/thief debate, but about actually considering un-nerfing ride the lightning?

I would say warriors and thieves are faster if speced so, from ranger I do not know, engineer is definitely slower as both engineer and ele has perma swiftness but DD ele has more leaps and a teleport, necromancers are the slowest class in the game with no leaps and mesmers have blink and some swiftness uptime. Guardian has some leaps/teleports and some swiftness uptime so I would say elementalists are now #3 or #4 in mobility, but #1 or #2 on survivability when going for a mobile spec.

the issue is that now mesmer is slightly less mobile than ele….(almost equals).

But mesmer CAN swap from long range weapons to short range…D/D ele cannot.

That is a huge difference.

Both have permaswiftness with appropriate builds.
But the 900-1200 20 sec cd blink makes up for RTL 40 sec + lightning flash.

Since ANET has pushed these changes through, here is what is happening.

Thief closes in with their version of Ride The Lightening. It goes like this.

Heart seeker – Heart seeker – Heart seeker – Heart seeker. = 1,800 range.
That doesn’t even include their other gap closers that thieves have.
I play a thief and an Elementalist. All day yesterday, I seen nothing but thieves heart seeking Eles in Wv3…to others and myself. So I decided to hop onto myThief, and I joined in. Eles need their old RTL back. It’s way too easy to catch an Ele now.
Should all other classes have their RTL equivalents nerfd the same way? What was wrong with RTL to begin with?

Voxel.6473:

What was wrong with RTL to begin with?

SPirit watch in PvP….

That is Anet problem…
They have a bad designed mode and they destroy a class to make up with it?

LordByron.8369:

the issue is that now mesmer is slightly less mobile than ele….(almost equals).

But mesmer CAN swap from long range weapons to short range…D/D ele cannot.

That is a huge difference.

Both have permaswiftness with appropriate builds.
But the 900-1200 20 sec cd blink makes up for RTL 40 sec + lightning flash.

permaswiftness on a mesmer?

Please do not say centaur runes

blink is 30 seconds untraited and 24 seconds traited

and they nerf the rtl range on spirit watch

Voxel.6473:

Should all other classes have their RTL equivalents nerfd the same way? What was wrong with RTL to begin with?

Wait, what? Did I miss the patch notes??? Is there an RTL equivalent for necros, too?

If in a tight spot just mist form (attune to water, works in mf and clears conditions) → lightning flash → armor of earth → (RTL if you have it →) FGS (attune to air if not already) and you are safe. Now you just need to think twice before going into 1v3+ fights, specially if you have cantrips on CD.

Thieves don’t even bother to chase me after I pull out my greatsword.

loseridoit.2756:

LordByron.8369:

the issue is that now mesmer is slightly less mobile than ele….(almost equals).

But mesmer CAN swap from long range weapons to short range…D/D ele cannot.

That is a huge difference.

Both have permaswiftness with appropriate builds.
But the 900-1200 20 sec cd blink makes up for RTL 40 sec + lightning flash.

permaswiftness on a mesmer?

Please do not say centaur runes

blink is 30 seconds untraited and 24 seconds traited

and they nerf the rtl range on spirit watch

air runes then?
who cares you have to trait for permaswiftness even on ele now….

And mesmer have clones and weapon switch….
I know that some mesmers likes to cry anout their speed….but actually they are quite fine considering they have clones, teleports, stealth and a lot of useful stuff.

They should just fix iZerker and a couple of other things…

DarnDevil IV.2143:

Wait, what? Did I miss the patch notes??? Is there an RTL equivalent for necros, too?

If in a tight spot just mist form (attune to water, works in mf and clears conditions) -> lightning flash -> armor of earth -> (RTL if you have it ->) FGS (attune to air if not already) and you are safe. Now you just need to think twice before going into 1v3+ fights, specially if you have cantrips on CD.

Thieves don’t even bother to chase me after I pull out my greatsword.

Right, because unlike every other “mobile” profession in the game an Ele should be required to burn every utility and Elite skill just to escape a fight. Which means in WvWvW at least, any NON-dagger Ele has to run 3 Cantrips plus FGS just to have a shot at surviving getting rushed by more than one or two players.

As usual, people miss the forest for the trees. An Ele is not some super OP god, and newsflash, it never was. The majority of legitimate issues against the Ele on various forums had to do with healing and condition cleanse in sPvP. Then the bandwagon started to nerf Ele in WvWvW by all the upleveled scrubs who couldn’t down an Ele in full Exotic/Ascended gear with their level 18 Thief. People point to daphoenix’s videos as proof of OP Eles, while disregarding the fact that most often daphoenix is stalling, rather than killing enemies. If you point out that Engineers, considered quite underpowered can do the same with a similar build, the only response is “I don’t care about facts, nerf Ele!”

Needless to say, forcing an Ele of any build to take certain cantrips and an elite JUST to be viable is ridiculous in terms of balance. Necros have death shroud, Thieves have Stealth, etc., etc. The Ele has no inherent defenses. The Ele needs more mobility than any other class because its designed as a front line profession (or at least capable in D/D format) with no inherent damage mitigation.

Oh and loseridoit, stop posting. A Mesmer can get permaswiftness via Centaur runes, just like the Ele can get crazy long boon duration with, you guessed it, boon duration runes. You can’t sit there and complain you don’t have something because you’re unwilling to sacrifice elsewhere. Well you CAN, but you sound like an “idoit.”

Kaleban.9834:

DarnDevil IV.2143:

Wait, what? Did I miss the patch notes??? Is there an RTL equivalent for necros, too?

If in a tight spot just mist form (attune to water, works in mf and clears conditions) -> lightning flash -> armor of earth -> (RTL if you have it ->) FGS (attune to air if not already) and you are safe. Now you just need to think twice before going into 1v3+ fights, specially if you have cantrips on CD.

Thieves don’t even bother to chase me after I pull out my greatsword.

Right, because unlike every other “mobile” profession in the game an Ele should be required to burn every utility and Elite skill just to escape a fight. Which means in WvWvW at least, any NON-dagger Ele has to run 3 Cantrips plus FGS just to have a shot at surviving getting rushed by more than one or two players.

As usual, people miss the forest for the trees. An Ele is not some super OP god, and newsflash, it never was. The majority of legitimate issues against the Ele on various forums had to do with healing and condition cleanse in sPvP. Then the bandwagon started to nerf Ele in WvWvW by all the upleveled scrubs who couldn’t down an Ele in full Exotic/Ascended gear with their level 18 Thief. People point to daphoenix’s videos as proof of OP Eles, while disregarding the fact that most often daphoenix is stalling, rather than killing enemies. If you point out that Engineers, considered quite underpowered can do the same with a similar build, the only response is “I don’t care about facts, nerf Ele!”

Needless to say, forcing an Ele of any build to take certain cantrips and an elite JUST to be viable is ridiculous in terms of balance. Necros have death shroud, Thieves have Stealth, etc., etc. The Ele has no inherent defenses. The Ele needs more mobility than any other class because its designed as a front line profession (or at least capable in D/D format) with no inherent damage mitigation.

Oh and loseridoit, stop posting. A Mesmer can get permaswiftness via Centaur runes, just like the Ele can get crazy long boon duration with, you guessed it, boon duration runes. You can’t sit there and complain you don’t have something because you’re unwilling to sacrifice elsewhere. Well you CAN, but you sound like an “idoit.”

wtf. you are the mega troll in this thread. All classes have to burn their skills to escape. elemental is no exception
Yea, necros and death shroud……low mobility and hard to get def boons….

I mention mesmer have to use runes to gain perma swiftness because its a sacrifice. Classes are balance that way.

Kaleban, I am always wonder if you have a concept of class balance.

BTW, you’re the idiot<- see what I have done there?

Yeah, it is unfair that you can burn some or all of yout utilities in order to escape. With necromancer you don’t even have to use them against 2+ people at all as there is no way you can escape those situations, OP survivability

DarnDevil IV.2143:

Yeah, it is unfair that you can burn some or all of yout utilities in order to escape. With necromancer you don’t even have to use them against 2+ people at all as there is no way you can escape those situations, OP survivability

you talk about that class that underleveled can get something like 250 badges in few hours?

That class that in zerg wars matters more than most siege weapons?

Give me that on staff… i ll gladly accept less mobility even without the double HP bar.

DarnDevil IV.2143:

Yeah, it is unfair that you can burn some or all of yout utilities in order to escape. With necromancer you don’t even have to use them against 2+ people at all as there is no way you can escape those situations, OP survivability

Seriously?

The number of people who, for example, say Staff Eles shouldn’t cry because they can backcast skills that Chill or Cripple is astounding. Then you sit there and say a Necro can’t escape? What about the teleport juking that Spectral Walk or Necrotic Traversal allow you to do? Or the dual Cripple/Swiftness of Locust Swarm? Or the 3s Immobilize of Dark pact? Etc., etc.

The Necro has a ton of ways to affect foes’ ability to move, hence increasing the relative escape speed of the Necro. Also on shorter cooldowns and causing other effects. Plus, the Necro has that whole second health bar thing, that can be traited to constantly replenish and stuff.

I won’t claim that the Necro is the best roamer in WvWvW, but its no slouch either, and if you watch the But of Corpse podcast, this would be made abundantly clear.

The problem I have with people like loseridoit is that he’s ignoring all the facts in favor of continuing to spread false information, or simply bias. The Ele doesn’t have nearly the amount of mobility that other “mobile” classes have (i.e. Thief) and has less mobility than non-mobile classes, such as Warrior and Guardian. And this was PRE-nerf. Now its even worse. And in terms of survivability, all the Ele had was the ability to be very mobile in combat, while tacking on boon duration runes and using a lot of high CD skills with terribly low damage to keep enemies on their toes. The only real defense the Ele had was a combination of heal/cleanse and RtL to escape, now all of that has been nerfed.

Again, I’ll posit the question: Where is the balance in lowering the mobility of a profession with both the lowest health and lowest armor and no inherent class defense like Stealth or Death Shroud, when it depended on that mobility to compete defensively in the first place? And what about all the other Ele builds that don’t have even close to the mobility of D/D, and are now even worse of a pick than the standard D/D bunker build?

Kaleban.9834:

DarnDevil IV.2143:

Yeah, it is unfair that you can burn some or all of yout utilities in order to escape. With necromancer you don’t even have to use them against 2+ people at all as there is no way you can escape those situations, OP survivability

Seriously?

The number of people who, for example, say Staff Eles shouldn’t cry because they can backcast skills that Chill or Cripple is astounding. Then you sit there and say a Necro can’t escape? What about the teleport juking that Spectral Walk or Necrotic Traversal allow you to do? Or the dual Cripple/Swiftness of Locust Swarm? Or the 3s Immobilize of Dark pact? Etc., etc.

The Necro has a ton of ways to affect foes’ ability to move, hence increasing the relative escape speed of the Necro. Also on shorter cooldowns and causing other effects. Plus, the Necro has that whole second health bar thing, that can be traited to constantly replenish and stuff.

I won’t claim that the Necro is the best roamer in WvWvW, but its no slouch either, and if you watch the But of Corpse podcast, this would be made abundantly clear.

The problem I have with people like loseridoit is that he’s ignoring all the facts in favor of continuing to spread false information, or simply bias. The Ele doesn’t have nearly the amount of mobility that other “mobile” classes have (i.e. Thief) and has less mobility than non-mobile classes, such as Warrior and Guardian. And this was PRE-nerf. Now its even worse. And in terms of survivability, all the Ele had was the ability to be very mobile in combat, while tacking on boon duration runes and using a lot of high CD skills with terribly low damage to keep enemies on their toes. The only real defense the Ele had was a combination of heal/cleanse and RtL to escape, now all of that has been nerfed.

Again, I’ll posit the question: Where is the balance in lowering the mobility of a profession with both the lowest health and lowest armor and no inherent class defense like Stealth or Death Shroud, when it depended on that mobility to compete defensively in the first place? And what about all the other Ele builds that don’t have even close to the mobility of D/D, and are now even worse of a pick than the standard D/D bunker build?

Dude, you are ignoring alot of facts too. Stop living in your own bubble. Elemental have access to defense boons, stun breakers, and alot of other goodies. Some skills hamper the ability for the opponent to catch or kill the elemental.

omg, you call elemental less mobile than a guardian. Stop discrediting yourself. Besides, guardian base hp is just as low as an elemental.
I am pretty sure that necros are not as mobile or tanky as elemental.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/New-found-respect-for-you-guys
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/So-sick-of-the-lack-of-stability
necros are one of the worse classes to play with

loseridoit.2756:

where?

I could say that is one of the most OP in www.
And tanky as hell too while dishing damage (via conditions/pet etc) a thing ele cannot do.

So i know the trick

Jump to agame mode to another just to make your classes seems weak.
I.E. oh warrior is so weak poor them……tell that to pve/www players….
oh thief is so bad…..in www?
OMG ele OP NERF! pve/www?

LordByron.8369:

loseridoit.2756:

where?

I could say that is one of the most OP in www.
And tanky as hell too while dishing damage (via conditions/pet etc) a thing ele cannot do.

So i know the trick

Jump to agame mode to another just to make your classes seems weak.
I.E. oh warrior is so weak poor them……tell that to pve/www players….
oh thief is so bad…..in www?
OMG ele OP NERF! pve/www?

Do you realize what you guys are advocating?

Basically, Kaleban and you are advocating that elementalist should have an class mechanic that reset battles. Why? If this mechanic stays in the game, Anet have to nerf other areas….

Necros rarely run away from a fight because stun and other cc are so effective against them. I think everybody except Guardian catches a necro

Yet in WWW when a necro is into a zerg it ALONE changes the tide of the fight.

That is balance ..
One of the best zerg professions is not a good roamer…

Ele now is horribad in zergs (dont tell me to spam fields for your profession….i not only don t get anything from it but is also a NPC like role)
Useless in roaming

What should i do now in WWW with an ele?

I know: don t play it.

LordByron.8369:

Yet in WWW when a necro is into a zerg it ALONE changes the tide of the fight.

That is balance ..
One of the best zerg professions is not a good roamer…

Ele now is horribad in zergs (dont tell me to spam fields for your profession….i not only don t get anything from it but is also a NPC like role)
Useless in roaming

What should i do now in WWW with an ele?

I know: don t play it.

Necros can be countered by using a mesmer’s null field.
I never find necros roaming.

So, you only feel useful if you are killing enemy zerg?

Ummm, anet cannnot allow 1 to hit mechanics in the game because it destroys class balance.

In reality, WvWvW is in a decent place. The community is not hostile to any class.
Anyone can join a zerg because all classes are just as useful as each other. To some extent, this game is pretty balanced.

Randomly listing other classes’ best skills will always seem overpowered against the element. Stacking meteor can be quite the zerg killer. This game is actually balance based on team play. Arrow cart update might kill their potential a bit

Everyone says “LOL This nerf was needed”

what they fail to recognize is that D/D Elementalists using 0/10/0/30/30 are not the only elementalists in the game. S/D can use RtL too. Since D/D Bunker elementalists could already heal with water and survive for a long time in a fight, all this nerf did is encourage more people to go that route, because any build that wasn’t bunker just got even more fragile.

It’s almost like ANet looks at the stats for the game and says “Hmm…we only have 80% of elementalists using the bunker d/d build.. what can we do today to bring the other 20% in line?”

@magus

1) ele 0/10/0/30/30 is an issue in PvP with cleric amulets and stuff.
In WWW a balanced/GC ele would possily go the same build with zerker equip and stuff…..In the end is a completely different beast.

2) in WWW ele is never been an issue mostly because you have to kill stuff and you have to do it FAST….something that bunker eles cannot do for sure.
Tanking is impossible unless you find a Group of really really unexperienced players that is something happens one in 2 months or so….

3) people don t know at who the nerf was aimed….(S/F 0/0/10/30/30 not D/D 0/10/0/30/30) and just due to capture the point and spirit watch….

As i said many times the nerf sounds like if they first released a PvP mode where the most hairy profession wins and then nerf charrs….

@loseridoit

The things are 2:
You can do something useful for your server, or you don t.
Ele can t…unless being the BAD healer of the game…

Now wonder why most games are going against healer professions…..
Because they are boring unrewarding and nobody wants to play them

I am not going to suggest that eles are useless in a zerg – quite the contrary. Our role is to play staff and do 2 things: clear siege and control the field with water 4, earth 2 and 4, air 2 and 5 while doing a little dps with fire 2, 3, and 5 and throwing up some water fields when needed. It is primarily a support role, but staff is good at it. A well placed static-field can devastate an opponent’s team, and your control effects can scatter tight groups by slowing some and not others.

However, this is all secondary to the RTL nerf. Eles hate it b/c they are nerfing an entire usage of the skill. RTL isn’t reliable in combat. I am penalized if it misses, is blocked, evaded, the pathing bugs, I misclick and de-target. No other skill has this mechanic. I would rather they put it back on a 15s timer and make it 900 range. Then it is a reliable offensive skill that can improve the ele spike-damage, but it harms the bunkers by taking away their 1-button “escape.” Most importantly, I could actually travel around the map without having to worry about using a mobility skill for mobility b/c a minute from now I might get into a fight.

What bothers me is with all those here that are upset about the RTL nerf, Anet has yet to even respond.

FinalPatriot.8034:

What bothers me is with all those here that are upset about the RTL nerf, Anet has yet to even respond.

what bothers me is anet responded to thief proposed nerf really fast, cencelled it replacing with a minor one, and then aswer again in few hours to say they had a meeting about removing it in pve AND www…..

What about eles?

LordByron.8369:

FinalPatriot.8034:

What bothers me is with all those here that are upset about the RTL nerf, Anet has yet to even respond.

what bothers me is anet responded to thief proposed nerf really fast, cencelled it replacing with a minor one, and then aswer again in few hours to say they had a meeting about removing it in pve AND www…..

What about eles?

If you’re talking about the Revealed change you can’t tell an apple from an orange. RTL is one skill on one weapon. Revealed is a core mechanic that affects every single Thief in the game.

mistform is not?
vapor form stealth nerf was not?

But most of all its not as u say…
Its quite clear even in thief forums that only few builds aim at almost permastealth….

Even in class design that was not intended…

I mean it isn t rocket science that a class that isn t visible for most of the time is “silly”.

yeah in the forums thieves seem to get at least an answer from the dev’s.

ok, so my main is a mesmer and i gotta say. RTL has never really bothered me and i liked epic fights with eles. you guys are good with healing and i think its ok like that as each class should have something special that others can’t do aswell. I never thought that eles were a class that needed the most nerfs at all.
If someone would ask me which class needed a nerf and i had only 10 seconds to answer{eventhough i hate nerfs in general):Thief

I was or sort of still am a condition mesmer and confusion got nerfed to kitten. engineers could stack more confusion than us and still got tons of other conditions, mesmer is now left with nothing really viable in this area….i think confusion and clones are a mesmers special trait and an ele should have good heals and rtl shouldnt be nerfed only because thieves should be the most mobile class.

this whole nerf this, nerf that is destroying all the classes and why? because people come here to cry because they had a bad fight and got destroyed.

this whole last patch was an absolute disaster:

horrible nerfs, that destroyed entire builds that are not viable anymore
over buffing certain things (ac’s are a joke)
making thieves pemastealth again, but nerfing other random things

seriosly anet, i wsh you would take the last patch back and start over.

Make a kitten test server already!

I thought this thread was about RTL?
Your 2 examples are still wrong. Mistform is a utility that you can not use. Vapor form is only one down state ability. The equivalent down state ability for Thief is smoke bomb which was also backdoor nerfed to be useless in PvE.

Revealed is a CORE MECHANIC there is no way to opt out of it. It is not the same as anything you are complaining about. The closest equivalent would be if they added a cool down to ALL forms so you couldn’t immediately switch from Fire to Water etc.

PS I play Thief and Elementalist. You obviously don’t play Thief.

revealed impact thieves ONLY if they traits in stealth a lot.

As mesmers didn t care, many thieves didn t and many of them themselves says how OP stealth is for some builds.

Lol @ Stealth being optional. So, which is it:

A) You don’t play Thief.
B) You’re a moron.
C) You’re trolling.

Dristig.9678:

If you’re talking about the Revealed change you can’t tell an apple from an orange. RTL is one skill on one weapon. Revealed is a core mechanic that affects every single Thief in the game.

While you’re right, I would also argue that RtL nerfs are symptomatic of a larger problem with balance. Mobility is to an Ele as Stealth is to a Thief. What allows a Thief to engage and disengage at will, burst targets down, etc. is Stealth. Stealth’s nerfs are being pulled back a bit, making the Thief more effective and deadly.

What about the Ele? Nerfing mobility, nerfing healing/cleanse, the two facets of the professions that allowed us to survive. The Ele has no inherent defenses, our only options to counteract incoming damage were to heal-heal-heal through it, using a combination of regen, water heals, condition removals, Ether Renewal, etc., etc. That’s been nerfed significantly. Our only other option was to use mobility, and our one reliable weapon skill, RtL is now the only skill in the game with the longest CD of any mobility skill and a conditional CD that results from many buggy issues from interactions with terrain to the target sidestepping slightly.

It makes no sense to nerf mobility on a class that has no other means of mitigating incoming damage. Especially combined with the lowest health and armor. I know I keep saying this, but it seems people just don’t get it, yet cry about balance still.

Dristig.9678:

Lol @ Stealth being optional. So, which is it:

A) You don’t play Thief.
B) You’re a moron.
C) You’re trolling.

D) All of the above.

No seriously. Eles, go back and read your posts. When you see kitten like, “Now an ele’s mobility is comparible to a mesmers” or… “We are now 4/5th most mobile class in game” or… “We are completely useless in pvp” Then you KNOWwwwwww (emphasize ftw) that’s some bullkitten.

Dristig.9678:

Lol @ Stealth being optional. So, which is it:

A) You don’t play Thief.
B) You’re a moron.
C) You’re trolling.

Phew. At first I thought you are talking about me) Stealth is the only way for thief to defend themselves and Anet build thief to be a slippery class. So it would be a wonder to see Anet go through to make Stealth optional.

ANet revert RTL nerf already. I hate to be as slow as turtle and freaking you hit the door or any unmoving objects, it counts as miss and put on 40sCD…What the heck?

U missed tank thief and the permavigor/energy thief it seems….

But i know what is the point…

Btw consider rtl+mistform is to D/D what stealth is to thief….think what would happen if they made for you impossible to use skills while stealthed and nerfed 250% duration with some mobility nerfs along them.

You could have a picture of what they did.

bladie.5084:

“We are now 4/5th most mobile class in game”

Thieves, rangers, and warriors are all more mobile than us, so yes, we are ranked 4th in mobility at best.

LordByron.8369:

U missed tank thief and the permavigor/energy thief it seems….

But i know what is the point…

Btw consider rtl+mistform is to D/D what stealth is to thief….think what would happen if they made for you impossible to use skills while stealthed and nerfed 250% duration with some mobility nerfs along them.

You could have a picture of what they did.

You deff don’t know what you’re talking about. You are comparing a weapon skill and a utility against a totally different gameplay. Did you know that there’s a whole trait line for stealth? That’s how important stealth is for a thief. The 3 seconds stealth was reverted because it destroyed a whole traitline and the ability to stealth itself efficiently. this affected 98% of the thief community.

Stealth does need a nerf, but that was the wrong directions Anet took it to, and so they realized it. So they reverted it only in pve.

the stealth nerf was reverted on in www and pve….and not because traits or stuff in fact remained in PvP.

Mostly because seems devs cares too much of thieves.

Not to consider how both AIR and cantrips (mistform) have their own traitlines.

Nerfing RTL destroyed the last viable weaponset ecluding PvP bunkers that has no other place in the game (nor pve nor www).
Nerfing Mistform hit severely every build/weapon…..just to address a single issue.

But as i said many times…once they nerfed last counterbuild they will be forced to deal with thieves….

Now its their turn to get a major nerf….along with rangers….lets see if once again they will only nerf the other class….and leave the main offender untouched.

P.S. stealth as its now was unintended by devs….

I would prefer no more nerf but more buff pls. Esport game is where competitive play, winning or losing decided in a tick. Keep nerfing thing will make the game more and more boring since there will be one point no one will be able to do anything soon…

LordByron.8369:

the stealth nerf was reverted on in www and pve….and not because traits or stuff in fact remained in PvP.

Mostly because seems devs cares too much of thieves.

Not to consider how both AIR and cantrips (mistform) have their own traitlines.

Nerfing RTL destroyed the last viable weaponset ecluding PvP bunkers that has no other place in the game (nor pve nor www).
Nerfing Mistform hit severely every build/weapon…..just to address a single issue.

But as i said many times…once they nerfed last counterbuild they will be forced to deal with thieves….

Now its their turn to get a major nerf….along with rangers….lets see if once again they will only nerf the other class….and leave the main offender untouched.

P.S. stealth as its now was unintended by devs….

WvWvW is considered as PVE.
Devs respond more often in the thief topic not because they value thieves more, it’s because they have more complaints there more. Anet has finally realized that most of the time it’s a learn to play issue. So they take the thief nerfing more carefully because they have done some injustice nerfing already because they “listened to the people”. Thieves get their monthly nerfs so you won’t have to worry about that. As for rangers Idk how you get the feeling they are OP but I don’t think they are going to get any major nerfs.

Mist form is finally working as it was intended. That was a fixed, not a nerf.
RTL if used properly, will still grant you a 20 second cooldown. the buggy 1550 range was finally fixed to the original range 1200.

bladie.5084:

WvWvW is considered as PVE.

False

no need to answer more…btw i wonder how comes thieves are still on eles forums…
They already nerfed your counterclass…..there is no way they will nerf more.

And you would be grateful to have some nerf reverted or they will have a hard time finding excuses to avoid dealing with thieves issue in WWW.

People is already upset.

I don’t really understand the RTL nerf either tbh. Was it really that strong?

Nerfs and buffs are natural, but 20 to 40 second cooldown is very extreme. Yes, it was a gap closer and nice gtfo, but what about those times where the gap is more then 1200 range, and you need to use several gap closers? Imo, they should at least have “fixed” it to have a stated 1550 range rather then take it down and increase cooldown both.

After all, it is a light armor class melee weapon, had it been a heavy armor user I would have thought differently. Low HP and low armor, we need mobility to stay alive, we can’t just tank it like the other classes and still deal good damage.

As for anyone that say “thief should be the most mobile class”, why? Thematically I would think an elementalist in light armor harnessing the power of lightning and air would be the most mobile thing out there. Having one class “supposed to” be this or that is a silly justification really. Balance a class around what makes it competitive and fun, not what other classes should be or not be.

All that said I still enjoy my elementalist, and my D/D build is quite strong when used right. It has a bit of a higher learning curve than my my guardian, but once you get the hang of it, it does alright. I am looking into new builds since I like to have range in WvW and team fights, but not really found a good build yet. Considering Scepter, Focus, but just not sure

LordByron.8369:

bladie.5084:

WvWvW is considered as PVE.

False

True. d/d eles are counter to every class. Anet sees the big picture, you obviously don’t.

I go onto the ele section for advice on how to make my ele because I recognize their usefulness in everything. I don’t look for ways to “counter” them. And I’m not a stealth build thief too.

you would like to browse mesmer forum, guardian forum, ranger forum and possible a couple of other 2 to find counter to PREnerf ele and they were general roaming build happening to be a D/D hard counter.

The same cannot be said of thieves…..there were only 2,5 counter…1,5 were nerfed into oblivion….

Every post you made in this thread starts with completely false facts……..and you say you are here to ask for suggestion.

For that people may be led to believe you are here for other reasons….

I suggest you to inform more to have better discussions.

Ozymandias.5704:

As for anyone that say “thief should be the most mobile class”, why? Thematically I would think an elementalist in light armor harnessing the power of lightning and air would be the most mobile thing out there. Having one class “supposed to” be this or that is a silly justification really. Balance a class around what makes it competitive and fun, not what other classes should be or not be.

Because Anet said so!

Obviously we (I play a Thief too) should have the highest mobility, burst, and have good defense with stealth, because Anet said so! (We can even get almost all three in one build, but pretend I didn’t tell you that.). Elementalists? Anet said they should be ‘master of nothing’ so they can’t have high damage or mobility, nor should their bunker build be effective.

(Honestly I’m tired of Thieves saying that, because it is a silly argument.)
Edit: The build is D/P + Shortbow, by the way. In case anyone wants to try it out. 0/30/30/10/0. Burst is not as high as the standard burst spec though (obviously)

LordByron.8369:

Every post you made in this thread starts with completely false facts……..and you say you are here to ask for suggestion.

For that people may be led to believe you are here for other reasons….

I suggest you to inform more to have better discussions.

I never ask for advice, I look for them. That’s how I’ve always been. I look at other’s build and suggestions and test them myself and come up with my own build. If you look at my posts history you would see that I never ask for help in any classes including my main profession. I only stumbled upon this subject cuz a guildmate said it was pretty funny. And it is when you see players claiming eles dropped 4+5 ranks in mobility, their mobility is comparable to mesmers now, and they are completely uselss now. And if you back track on my posts, you’d see that I approve some tweakings of stealth.

I still don’t feel like this has impacted eles in WvW as much as people think. Just choosing the right moment when to use it to leave still allows you to easily escape most classes. As an ele I just pick my moment and destination well; as a warrior it still takes a bit to actually pin them down if I’m pursuing. That said, I hate that it’s crap for basic travel now.

Sil.4560:

I still don’t feel like this has impacted eles in WvW as much as people think. Just choosing the right moment when to use it to leave still allows you to easily escape most classes. As an ele I just pick my moment and destination well; as a warrior it still takes a bit to actually pin them down if I’m pursuing. That said, I hate that it’s crap for basic travel now.

I think this perspective changes with tier. The other thing is thief, ranger, mesmer and warrior can all keep up in a comparable set so no it does not allow you to escape most classes. If we are being serous here even a guardian could keep up for a while with Sw/GS set and judge’s.

As warrior last time I dropped a DD ele it was for the same reason I always do. I time my cripple which is enhanced by leg specialist after I see the water attunement. The ele cant out dash me so pinning them down isn’t that big an issue.

bladie.5084:

LordByron.8369:

bladie.5084:

WvWvW is considered as PVE.

False

True. d/d eles are counter to every class. Anet sees the big picture, you obviously don’t.

I go onto the ele section for advice on how to make my ele because I recognize their usefulness in everything. I don’t look for ways to “counter” them. And I’m not a stealth build thief too.

WvW= pve. True
Ele= counter to every class. Very false.

Good job Anet. With all these nerfs to the only class that I played (I even had a legendary on it) it pushes me farther and farther away from returning.