"Rebound." Tempest elite skill

"Rebound." Tempest elite skill

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Posted by: Azoqu.8917

Azoqu.8917

I think rebound should be changed to that the next skill you use gets cast twice.

"Rebound." Tempest elite skill

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Posted by: TheRandomGuy.7246

TheRandomGuy.7246

Reducing next used utility skill cooldown by half would be nice.

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Posted by: ArthurDent.9538

ArthurDent.9538

Reducing next used utility skill cooldown by half would be nice.

Then it would basically be just a weaker version of the utility that is used, and exactly the same as a weaker version of mesmer’s mimic. It is supposed to be an elite, sure ele elites are all worse than several of the utilities but please don’t make that quite so obvious. Tornado may be weak but at least it is intimidating and cool looking, same with fgs. Rebound screams, “this is just a worse version of a utility skill and no number tweaking will ever change that”.

14 Dungeon paths soloed
Lupi solos on 9/9 professions
Wost Engi NA

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Posted by: Mercurius.7314

Mercurius.7314

So I’ve been thinking about it and to me, ‘Rebound!’ doesn’t really seem like the sort of thing you’d be yelling at your allies to get their skills to recharge faster. I think that’d be more like ‘Recharge!’ or ‘Energise!’ or something like that. I agree with the other posters that regardless of what the shout is the skill recharge functionality is really more fitting for the Chronomancer and I’d like to see something else for the Tempest.

I actually think ‘Rebound!’ sounds pretty cool when the VAs yell it in game so I’m trying to come up with a way to keep the actual shout but to rework it that would fit in well with the overall Tempest theme of frontline support. To me, I’d expect ‘Rebound!’ would be something I’d yell at my teammates to get them back on their feet after they’ve been stunned or knocked down or similar.

‘Rebound!’ mechanics rework suggestions
I figure that ‘Rebound!’ could be changed so that instead of ability recharge it’s an AoE Stun Break that also applies vigour to allies it breaks out of stuns (fits the theme of getting your allies back on their feet faster with increased endurance recharge) and a single stack of stability to everyone it hits (to prevent them getting knocked down again immediately) for a short duration (maybe 3 seconds?).

Given I’m proposing making it a stunbreaker I’d change it to be instant cast but I think I’d probably leave the recharge at 60s since there is already an instant cast shout that gives stability (with a self stun break baked in) on the Guardian that’s 30s base with a recharge trait so doubling the recharge and making it AoE/apply vigour seems reasonable to me.

I figure that changing it to to what is essentially a more powerful and even more group oriented version of ‘Stand Your Ground!’ would allow it to be used in many of the same situations that Guardians currently use that shout in but the group stun break also gives it an added complexity that ‘Stand Your Ground!’ doesn’t have as you’ll have to make a choice between using it for the group stability or saving it for the group stun break. There’s also the decision of whether you want to personally make a decision to pre-cast it before attempting to overload an attunement to give you some manner of protection against CC’s while doing so.

Applications in various game modes
With my proposed re-working of the mechanics, I can see the shout being useful in all three games modes since there’s often situations where there isn’t much need for Glyph of Elementals or Conjure Fiery Greatsword but you’d like to have something there instead (plus you’d presumably be able to use it underwater, giving a useful alternative to whirlpool).

I know in PvE (especially stuff like Teq, TA and Fractals) I’ve been in a lot of situations where I’ve really wanted to be able to break a group member out of a stun or put stability on the group when we didn’t have a Guardian in group. I’m still undecided on whether I’d spec Tempest in PvE in the first place but I basically need to see how the overload number tweaks work out in the next BWE (and whether the traits are changed at all) before I decide on that.

For WvW the reworked shout opens up the possibility of slotting a D/W Tempest into a sturdy front-line support role in zerg WvW (which is what I think they were going for with Warhorn in the first place?) using Trooper runes and an Auramancer build. It’ll also have some utility in small group roaming although I would assume it’ll be less effective there than in a zerg.

I’m pretty awful at Ele in sPvP so I’m not sure how well the revised shout would work in Conquest but I’d expect you’d be looking at the same sort of performance as small group WvW and since basically no one was using Rebound! in Conquest in its current incarnation I still think it’ll be a net gain.

tl;dr
Make ‘Rebound!’ a long cooldown, instant cast AoE stunbreak that grants short duration vigour to allies it breaks out of stuns and stability regardless of whether it breaks someone out to help prevent them getting knocked down again.

(edited by Mercurius.7314)

"Rebound." Tempest elite skill

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

Reducing next used utility skill cooldown by half would be nice.

Mesmer mimic reduces cooldown of next utility to 1.

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Posted by: rotten.9753

rotten.9753

Mesmer mimic reduces cooldown of next utility to 1.

Yes but you cannot support your allies with that.

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Posted by: Anjoys.5367

Anjoys.5367

How about “Using rebound makes the next channelled skill or skill with a cast time instant cast applying all damage and effects instantly”

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Posted by: TheFantasticGman.9451

TheFantasticGman.9451

There was no reason to bring Rebound into fractals over the glyph or FGS.

Speaking from a PVE-only point of view…

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Posted by: rotten.9753

rotten.9753

There was no reason to bring Rebound into fractals over the glyph or FGS.

Is there a reason to brings it anywhere? I mean, it triggers even on autoattack and attunement swaps (without reduction). So in order to use it properly, you’d have to shout on TeamSpeak, “Everyone, stop dpsing, I’m going to cast powerful and elite spell”.

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Posted by: TheFantasticGman.9451

TheFantasticGman.9451

Heh… I suppose. I only tried it out where I spend most of my time in game.

Speaking from a PVE-only point of view…

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Posted by: emikochan.8504

emikochan.8504

It should just remove the cooldown on the next skill (maybe not elites) cast.

Welcome to my world – http://emikochan13.wordpress.com

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Posted by: Ganathar.4956

Ganathar.4956

How about we change the skill without changing the animation and without taking away its support theme? We can even incorporate the aura theme that shouts seem to have.

Here is an idea, please do note that I’m not a theorycrafter so the numbers could be off.

Rebound 90 seconds cooldown.

Shout and infuse yourself and your allies with surges of energy, applying arcane aura for 8 seconds and making your next overload have no cooldown.

Number of Allied Targets: 5
Radius: 600

Arcane aura

When struck, gain 2 seconds of quickness.
When struck, you apply 1 second of daze.

(edited by Ganathar.4956)

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Posted by: Varezenem.2813

Varezenem.2813

Or how about changing it to a 100% CD reduction? (and not being used on auto-attacks).

Senbu Ren[Wind]
Herald of Ventari

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Posted by: keenlam.4753

keenlam.4753

How about the next skill (which has a cooldown) you and your allies use has no cast time? (Cannot be used for auto-attacks of course).

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

Or how about changing it to a 100% CD reduction? (and not being used on auto-attacks).

100% CD reduction for the entire party can be overpowered

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Posted by: tostadude.9214

tostadude.9214

So I’ve been thinking about it and to me, ‘Rebound!’ doesn’t really seem like the sort of thing you’d be yelling at your allies to get their skills to recharge faster. I think that’d be more like ‘Recharge!’ or ‘Energise!’ or something like that. I agree with the other posters that regardless of what the shout is the skill recharge functionality is really more fitting for the Chronomancer and I’d like to see something else for the Tempest.

I actually think ‘Rebound!’ sounds pretty cool when the VAs yell it in game so I’m trying to come up with a way to keep the actual shout but to rework it that would fit in well with the overall Tempest theme of frontline support. To me, I’d expect ‘Rebound!’ would be something I’d yell at my teammates to get them back on their feet after they’ve been stunned or knocked down or similar.

‘Rebound!’ mechanics rework suggestions
I figure that ‘Rebound!’ could be changed so that instead of ability recharge it’s an AoE Stun Break that also applies vigour to allies it breaks out of stuns (fits the theme of getting your allies back on their feet faster with increased endurance recharge) and a single stack of stability to everyone it hits (to prevent them getting knocked down again immediately) for a short duration (maybe 3 seconds?).

Given I’m proposing making it a stunbreaker I’d change it to be instant cast but I think I’d probably leave the recharge at 60s since there is already an instant cast shout that gives stability (with a self stun break baked in) on the Guardian that’s 30s base with a recharge trait so doubling the recharge and making it AoE/apply vigour seems reasonable to me.

I figure that changing it to to what is essentially a more powerful and even more group oriented version of ‘Stand Your Ground!’ would allow it to be used in many of the same situations that Guardians currently use that shout in but the group stun break also gives it an added complexity that ‘Stand Your Ground!’ doesn’t have as you’ll have to make a choice between using it for the group stability or saving it for the group stun break. There’s also the decision of whether you want to personally make a decision to pre-cast it before attempting to overload an attunement to give you some manner of protection against CC’s while doing so.

Applications in various game modes
With my proposed re-working of the mechanics, I can see the shout being useful in all three games modes since there’s often situations where there isn’t much need for Glyph of Elementals or Conjure Fiery Greatsword but you’d like to have something there instead (plus you’d presumably be able to use it underwater, giving a useful alternative to whirlpool).

I know in PvE (especially stuff like Teq, TA and Fractals) I’ve been in a lot of situations where I’ve really wanted to be able to break a group member out of a stun or put stability on the group when we didn’t have a Guardian in group. I’m still undecided on whether I’d spec Tempest in PvE in the first place but I basically need to see how the overload number tweaks work out in the next BWE (and whether the traits are changed at all) before I decide on that.

For WvW the reworked shout opens up the possibility of slotting a D/W Tempest into a sturdy front-line support role in zerg WvW (which is what I think they were going for with Warhorn in the first place?) using Trooper runes and an Auramancer build. It’ll also have some utility in small group roaming although I would assume it’ll be less effective there than in a zerg.

I’m pretty awful at Ele in sPvP so I’m not sure how well the revised shout would work in Conquest but I’d expect you’d be looking at the same sort of performance as small group WvW and since basically no one was using Rebound! in Conquest in its current incarnation I still think it’ll be a net gain.

tl;dr
Make ‘Rebound!’ a long cooldown, instant cast AoE stunbreak that grants short duration vigour to allies it breaks out of stuns and stability regardless of whether it breaks someone out to help prevent them getting knocked down again.

Your new rebound is pretty much the Eye of the Storm shout, only gives vigor and stab instead of superspeed

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Posted by: tostadude.9214

tostadude.9214

How about the next skill (which has a cooldown) you and your allies use has no cast time? (Cannot be used for auto-attacks of course).

by far too weak, still better than current version tho

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Posted by: Wolfric.9380

Wolfric.9380

Why not simply make it a good aura shout. This will fit tempest much more.

Changes:

Instant cast
blinds foes in 600 rad.
Gives 8s light aura (or chaos armor which is an aura)
Maybe ad a bit damage.

This would simply fit tempest and due to more aura synergy be a good option.
If its still to weak go for lower CD or heavy blast damage.

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Posted by: Valento.9852

Valento.9852

This is a good opportunity to make use of the newly-added “displacement” mechanics present in revenant skill. Make the elite something like “Seven Winds” (type: Arcane), displacing foes caught in whirlwinds scattered around the area which rapidly move in random locations. Displaced foes receive damage equal to Lightning Rod.

Attempts at ele specs:
Shaman
Conjurer

(edited by Valento.9852)

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Posted by: Avador.8934

Avador.8934

This is a good opportunity to make use of the newly-added “displacement” mechanics present in revenant skill. Make the elite something like “Seven Winds” (type: Arcane), displacing foes caught in whirlwinds scattered around the area which rapidly move in random locations. Displaced foes receive damage equal to Lightning Rod.

I like that idea.

I am lazy to write it over and over. So sorry for my English.

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Posted by: Valento.9852

Valento.9852

@Avador, It even has a “holykitten! save yourselves!” utility feeling to it! lol and it thematically fits the ele, tempest is tied to winds, but an elite could expand its understanding of the unknown mysteries of arcane magic to unleash arcane-infused winds (hence the name and mechanics). The point is that I don’t feel like a tempest at all, except for air skills. I don’t know…

Attempts at ele specs:
Shaman
Conjurer

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Posted by: Vissarion.6509

Vissarion.6509

Scrap the CD reduction idea, give us the ability to the next skill used has DOUBLE power (double dmg/cond.dmg).

Oh the meteor showers that gonna hit like trucks :>

This actually opens up opportunities for some good plays and fun stuff, not to mention making the elite useful.

They called us TEMPESTs, but we can use our elite to cheat death instead

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Posted by: Warobaz.9543

Warobaz.9543

Rebound!

Sounds like a nice elite shout to bump a thread.

At least it can be a sweet little meme!

Norn to be Alive [NtbA]

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Posted by: Altair.8402

Altair.8402

Rebound needs to not be something that’s a generic cooldown reducer. Even if the numbers are tuned so it’s perfectly balanced and all bugs related to it are fixed, it still:

- Has no synergy with the rest of the skills at all
- Has literally nothing to do with any of the 4 elements
- Makes zero thematic sense to be part of the tempest’s kit
- Feels like something a mesmer would do

Scrap it completely and start over.

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Posted by: Wolfric.9380

Wolfric.9380

Another simple idea that would allow for mor spec options.

Sigil of Tempest:

Passiv: 33% Movement speed (Yes permaswiftness)
Active: 5s Haste

Such a sigil would give a large number of optinons by not needing to take runes, Air sigil or trait air for speed. For me this would allow for a full tempest spec even with current traits.
But maybe would end being used by most players like FSG now. Not shure about that.

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Posted by: tostadude.9214

tostadude.9214

IMO the best idea so far is the seven winds one, feel really on theme, its still an arcane shout and has an elite-like effect that you actually have a reason to use

please keep these ideas coming

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Posted by: The Great Al.2546

The Great Al.2546

Rebound needs to not be something that’s a generic cooldown reducer. Even if the numbers are tuned so it’s perfectly balanced and all bugs related to it are fixed, it still:

- Has no synergy with the rest of the skills at all
- Has literally nothing to do with any of the 4 elements
- Makes zero thematic sense to be part of the tempest’s kit
- Feels like something a mesmer would do

Scrap it completely and start over.

This is pretty much it. Even if the skill was functional, it makes no sense, and there isn’t a single trait that it synergizes with whatsoever.

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Posted by: Pyreaux.9351

Pyreaux.9351

I think that “Rebound” is supposed to be the “Arcane” utility, rather than a proper elemental one, and as such suffers from Arcane’s more meta theme.

The Shouts all apply the generic Buff and Debuff options for their given element, making them pretty easy to design.

Arcane focuses on the following, both as a trait type and as utility abilities:
Crits
Attunement Recharge
Emergency Defenses
Attunement-based Boon/Condition
Combo Finishers

It looks like they sort of went with “Attunement Recharge” for Rebound. Of course, the whole point of tempest is that Attunement Recharge is harder to achieve, and attunement swapping is the equivalent of weapon swapping, so the more direct way to act on this would be to make this a weapon-swapping cooldown reduction… which… probably wouldn’t be that interesting.

With that said, the least complex “Arcane Shout” I can think of would be for everyone to get Arcane Shield.

Edit: Another method would be to just make the Elite a penalty-free instant Overload of the current element.

(edited by Pyreaux.9351)

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Posted by: Azaruil.3406

Azaruil.3406

They should swap the new mesmer elite with the new elementalist elite. Cooldown reduction fits quite well with the whole chronomancer thing anyways.

Aza
“I smell like pomegranate.”

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Posted by: Ganathar.4956

Ganathar.4956

They should swap the new mesmer elite with the new elementalist elite. Cooldown reduction fits quite well with the whole chronomancer thing anyways.

I don’t think any elite spec deserves getting such a terrible elite skill.

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Posted by: Waisenpai.6028

Waisenpai.6028

Make it a 3 second projectile reflect with 5 stacks of stability for 4 seconds and at the 3 second mark you invoke a 5 target AOE launch at your position. 400 range! You shout “REBOUND” on the third second of activating the elite.
Now that would be fun.

Or change the launch to a 5 target aoe pull 400 range haha!

Attachments:

Min Min core d/d ele Borlis Pass Bunny Thumper

(edited by Waisenpai.6028)

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Posted by: DarkyAnime.4531

DarkyAnime.4531

It should summon a big ball of fire/water/air/earth and slam it on the target. It continue to bounce a few time but lose damage on each bounce. Nickname it kobe.

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Posted by: Wolfric.9380

Wolfric.9380

Fit it with the other shouts. So make it instant and add an aura share (light or shocking).

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Posted by: keenlam.4753

keenlam.4753

They should swap the new mesmer elite with the new elementalist elite. Cooldown reduction fits quite well with the whole chronomancer thing anyways.

I don’t think any elite spec deserves getting such a terrible elite skill.

Amen to this.

How about after activating Rebound, your next interrupted skill is “rebounded” and has 50% shorter recharge time? The effect can be shared to allies as well as shout = group support for tempest.

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Posted by: Wolfric.9380

Wolfric.9380

If they are not going to put efort in rebound easy number changes woul make it a bit useful.
Instant cast.
Cooldown: 45 seconds

And of course a shout.

In that case it would have some uses especially when combined with some runes.

Greetings

Wolf

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Posted by: MyPuppy.8970

MyPuppy.8970

Or since it is arcane themed, give 10s of AoE Arcane power.

Lily Bertine [NG]/[GiRL]
Nerfentalist of Augury Rock