Guild Wars 2

Taldren.7523:

Bartosz.2013:

Taldren.7523:

Glenstorm.4059:

Hey look at the bright side, at least that one troll from the Rev forum won’t come here to cry about it :p (I can hope)

Anyway, this change was long overdue. One skill shouldn’t have had such a huge impact.

But now I do hope we get changes to make Conjures more worth slotting. Earth Shield stun break would be a good start, followed by AoE effect when a Conjure is summonmed.

huge impact on what? PvE? That is only 1/3 the game, screw PvE. It destroyed it for WvW and most importantly sPvP. It was an absolute risk to take it in sPvP and now there is zero reward for being rooted.

Pve is much more important than both www and pvp, 50% nerf on 4th skill is very good, but they should nerf 5th skill because it makes boss battles very stupid.

Lol, good one. Name a single paid tournament for PvE? Compare twitch viewership for sPvP to PvE channels. Yeah, more important my kitten .

which side of the game has more content? how much content is pve focused on the upcoming expansion? how much pvp content is being added in the expansion? how much more people play pve then pvp?

thought so.

Xehanort.7034:

Taldren.7523:

Bartosz.2013:

Taldren.7523:

Glenstorm.4059:

Hey look at the bright side, at least that one troll from the Rev forum won’t come here to cry about it :p (I can hope)

Anyway, this change was long overdue. One skill shouldn’t have had such a huge impact.

But now I do hope we get changes to make Conjures more worth slotting. Earth Shield stun break would be a good start, followed by AoE effect when a Conjure is summonmed.

huge impact on what? PvE? That is only 1/3 the game, screw PvE. It destroyed it for WvW and most importantly sPvP. It was an absolute risk to take it in sPvP and now there is zero reward for being rooted.

Pve is much more important than both www and pvp, 50% nerf on 4th skill is very good, but they should nerf 5th skill because it makes boss battles very stupid.

Lol, good one. Name a single paid tournament for PvE? Compare twitch viewership for sPvP to PvE channels. Yeah, more important my kitten .

which side of the game has more content? how much content is pve focused on the upcoming expansion? how much pvp content is being added in the expansion? how much more people play pve then pvp?

thought so.

What part of the game has the highest utilization … the vast majority of that “content” of yours goes un-used. There is additional pvp content in HOT and again, it will be utilized far more than your PvE content. Seeing as there is never a lack of people in sPvP, I’d like to see the numbers on that then take your insinuation, thanks.

PvE is for people that fail at PvP.

Azure.8670:

its not worthless because it still has a freeze. believe it or not, 50% damage decrease its still optimal for damage… its just not RIDICULOUS now

if aint ridiculous damage it is not balanced, reason why some cry when skills that can get exploited gets patched.

lol opps put this in wrong thread. But yeah, conjures are looking pretty useless now.

This is what line casting does for a skill. Ruin a skill because 5% take advantage of a glitch they were too lazy to fix.

Kicker.8203:

Icebow was kind of broken for PvE (not in PvP) but now none of the conjure weapons are viable except FGS. They seriously need a heavy rework. The Ice Bow was supposed to be a healing conjured weapon. Why don’t u add tons of healing to it? The Axe, Hammer and Shield are still not used anywhere.

FGS is only used for mobility too, the damage on it is garbage.

Hammer was still useful last I remember because it’s still a blast finisher, used on scepter eles who were might stacking for the group.

You need lot of nerfs to be on pair with other classes.

Starfall.6425:

Xillllix.3485:

Azure.8670:

its not worthless because it still has a freeze. believe it or not, 50% damage decrease its still optimal for damage… its just not RIDICULOUS now

What is ridiculous is getting shaterred for 25k from stealth, not an aoe skill you can just dodge out.

Mesmers are so lucky every clone shatters for 8,3k dmg and can’t be dodged.

PS: Serious question: did any ele use icebow in pvp?

I did, and I am super annoyed. It was to deal with Mercy guardians.

Alekt.5803:

Mesmers are so lucky every clone shatters for 8,3k dmg and can’t be dodged.

PS: Serious question: did any ele use icebow in pvp?

I did, and I am super annoyed. It was to deal with Mercy guardians.

^
It’s so lame when I’m playing as a full glass staff ele spamming lava font and Meteor Shower on some revival build and they can still revive their target without a sweat. Ice Storm was the only thing that stopped that from happening for me.

Devildoc.6721:

Kicker.8203:

Icebow was kind of broken for PvE (not in PvP) but now none of the conjure weapons are viable except FGS. They seriously need a heavy rework. The Ice Bow was supposed to be a healing conjured weapon. Why don’t u add tons of healing to it? The Axe, Hammer and Shield are still not used anywhere.

FGS is only used for mobility too, the damage on it is garbage.

Hammer was still useful last I remember because it’s still a blast finisher, used on scepter eles who were might stacking for the group.

Hammer is used more to mitigate Scepter ele’s abysmal sustained DPS due to their burst rotation having a long cooldown and their autos being absolutely terrible. The blast finisher is nice, but certainly not the main reason for taking Lightning Hammer. And yes, FGS is only used for mobility now. After Anet gutted it, it became nothing more than a utilitarian option when our only other choices were a transform that is quite useless after Anet nerfed it too (and it was only niche before said nerf) and a summon that is questionable. (I only use it for the tank it provides with an earth elemental)

The Conjures all need a serious rework. The only time any of them see any use is when one of their skills is badly, hilariously OP. FGS sees some use right now, but even that’s mostly just because our other Elites kinda suck most of the time. Well, I like Glyph of Elementals, but it’s really not the most impressive Elite skill out there.

maddoctor.2738:

Seems appropriate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue9dny5UYIY

Updated : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9EQ0MN5whU

I’d love to see what you guys think about my rework to Conjures.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Conjures-Revamped-to-Change-All-Bonus-Stats/first#post5534515

The Ice Bow in my design changes all your stats to Apothecary, has increased ally support options, and has been retooled from “power” damage to Bleed stacking with the modest condition damage from the Apothecary stat combination.

It would no longer be a “pick up and use one skill” wonder, and would rather adjust your current play style to that of a healing support style no matter what gear you are wearing. Similar changes for the other 4 conjures, providing the following styles:

Melee Berserker – Lightning Hammer
Ranged Condition Sinister – Flame Axe
Melee “Toughness/Condi/Vitality” Control Defense – Earth Shield
Mid-Range AOE Marauder – Fiery Greatsword

Taldren.7523:

PvE is for people that fail at PvP.

No, PvE is for people who try to get away from toxic individuals such as yourself.

Taldren.7523:

PvE? That is only 1/3 the game,

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Taldren.7523:

PvE is for people that fail at PvP.

No, PvE is for people who try to get away from toxic individuals such as yourself.

Taldren.7523:

PvE? That is only 1/3 the game,

No, PvE are a bunch of people that play the same puzzle over and over again and expect the world for it. Gear scores, Best In Slot, Player priority, and ever other corruption of MMOs has been a direct result of PvE, so please spare me that its the PvP players that are the big bad wolf among the sheep. There are plenty of other games where PvE is the center of the universe … GW2 is/was not one of them.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I’m not sure ice bow will ever stop being used as long as line casting is still a thing.

Line casting is not a thing…

Jesus christ, Nemesis seriously is a thorn in this community’s side.

It is a thing, just not a thing that anyone actually uses.

ArthurDent.9538:

It is a thing, just not a thing that anyone actually uses.

Not any PvPer anyway.

The Icebow nerf to Skill 4 was justified. It was OP, you knew it, I knew it, we all knew it.

The problem is though that after just mentioning the nerf and doing a gesture that I consider to have been just a middle finger to all elementalist, there is no mention of fixing conjurers.

Conjurers are still crap tier utilities (even more so with the nerf), except for FGS that has a single use of being a mobility skill.

In the face of this gigantic issue to an ENTIRE skill type, what does ANET do? Gut one more of the skills in the category and move on as if the job is done.

kittening classic ANET stuff.

Yojimaru.4980:

Devildoc.6721:

Kicker.8203:

Icebow was kind of broken for PvE (not in PvP) but now none of the conjure weapons are viable except FGS. They seriously need a heavy rework. The Ice Bow was supposed to be a healing conjured weapon. Why don’t u add tons of healing to it? The Axe, Hammer and Shield are still not used anywhere.

FGS is only used for mobility too, the damage on it is garbage.

Hammer was still useful last I remember because it’s still a blast finisher, used on scepter eles who were might stacking for the group.

Hammer is used more to mitigate Scepter ele’s abysmal sustained DPS due to their burst rotation having a long cooldown and their autos being absolutely terrible. The blast finisher is nice, but certainly not the main reason for taking Lightning Hammer. And yes, FGS is only used for mobility now. After Anet gutted it, it became nothing more than a utilitarian option when our only other choices were a transform that is quite useless after Anet nerfed it too (and it was only niche before said nerf) and a summon that is questionable. (I only use it for the tank it provides with an earth elemental)

Well yeah, lightning hammer is used for the damage mostly but yeah, it’s dual purpose to me, especially if you have a staff ele also in the group so you’re blasting their lava fonts.

What I was really meaning is that lightning hammer is still pretty useful. FGS is “useful” but it’s embarrassing that it’s an “elite” skill that is basically used to get 2 standard warrior greatsword skills to move around, without warrior greatsword damage.

Then of course nobody uses earth shield or lava axe because they’re low powered and don’t really have a niche to work in, and icebow will be joining them.

It’s also embarrassing that FGS is only useful because the other options for its designated slot are even more worthless.

Azel.4786:

The Icebow nerf to Skill 4 was justified. It was OP, you knew it, I knew it, we all knew it.

The problem is though that after just mentioning the nerf and doing a gesture that I consider to have been just a middle finger to all elementalist, there is no mention of fixing conjurers.

Conjurers are still crap tier utilities (even more so with the nerf), except for FGS that has a single use of being a mobility skill.

In the face of this gigantic issue to an ENTIRE skill type, what does ANET do? Gut one more of the skills in the category and move on as if the job is done.

kittening classic ANET stuff.

No we did not know it. It rooted us, the lowest hitpoint and armor class in the game, in PvP which is both high risk and high situational. Abilities like that are SUPPOSED TO BE powerful.

Purple Miku.7032:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I’m not sure ice bow will ever stop being used as long as line casting is still a thing.

Line casting is not a thing…

Jesus christ, Nemesis seriously is a thorn in this community’s side.

I see people doing it. Besides, so long as it is possible it is still an issue. Just because a certain group of people refuse to use it doesn’t mean that it stops existing.

arkealia.2713:

Was probably needed to avoid the “must have 5 eles” on raids.

I think the icebow had the nerf coming for awhile, but this is an important thing. Immediately after being announced, I knew the optimum comp would have 5 elementalists just for their icebows. Thea ability drop 1.28m damage on the boss in 3 seconds forces a difficult balancing decision: make bosses have so much health that you need these icebows, or don’t balance around that strat and make the bosses too easy when you do have icebows.

Ice Storm is still a good skill. But now it is a marginal increase in DPS instead of a whole number scalar multiple.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Purple Miku.7032:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I’m not sure ice bow will ever stop being used as long as line casting is still a thing.

Line casting is not a thing…

Jesus christ, Nemesis seriously is a thorn in this community’s side.

I see people doing it. Besides, so long as it is possible it is still an issue. Just because a certain group of people refuse to use it doesn’t mean that it stops existing.

arkealia.2713:

Was probably needed to avoid the “must have 5 eles” on raids.

I think the icebow had the nerf coming for awhile, but this is an important thing. Immediately after being announced, I knew the optimum comp would have 5 elementalists just for their icebows. Thea ability drop 1.28m damage on the boss in 3 seconds forces a difficult balancing decision: make bosses have so much health that you need these icebows, or don’t balance around that strat and make the bosses too easy when you do have icebows.

Ice Storm is still a good skill. But now it is a marginal increase in DPS instead of a whole number scalar multiple.

In the last 6 months I have gone from about 5% dungeoneer achievement to about 95% done with that achievement. All through pugs. I have also pugged all the way from lv 1 to lv 50 fractals, and have nearly completed the fractal frequenter achieve. Line casting is not a thing. Pugs never line cast. I also watch a lot of the speed run videos, they never line cast. At this point, I am pretty sure the only person who line casts is some random guy who purposefully joins and trolls nemesis’s parties. To be fair, he sounds kitten good at it.

Also, if 5 eles are so clearly the best comp, why don’t we see them in game now? I have never once seen “fractal 50, eles only”.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

This is what line casting does for a skill. Ruin a skill because 5% take advantage of a glitch they were too lazy to fix.

Or maybe they wanted to prevent a 5 ele requirement for raids just because of icebow?

arkealia.2713:

DresdenAllblack.1249:

This is what line casting does for a skill. Ruin a skill because 5% take advantage of a glitch they were too lazy to fix.

Or maybe they wanted to prevent a 5 ele requirement for raids just because of icebow?

Why don’t we have 5 ele meta for fractals?

Rather than remove them from the game, they could, you know, do their job and actually fix them into something usable. Of course, they have no idea what they are doing with this class so it will just be added to the big pile of crappy, unusable skills.

If they do want to listen, I drop some knowledge for them: Eles have a LOT of skills to start, so we don’t need something that just offers more skills exactly like we already have. Instead, conjures need to offer a viable way to do things outside the normal weapon capability. To make this happen, I would suggest:
- All conjures have 0 cast time or 1/4s max
- Charges are no longer a thing. This is a pointless limitation not justified with extremely strong skills.
- Conjure cooldowns are reduced to 20 or 30s across the board (FGS will be reduced to ~1min).
- Individual conjures are refocused to help fill gaps left by not having weapon swaps. This means one should be a ranged dps weapon (ice bow would be great for this, esp. if it were just good sustained pressure), one can be a strong melee option with some evades, good melee damage, and maybe a little quicker CC (this requires reworking Lightning Hammer), one can be a tanky defensive weapon with hard mitigation (Earth shield wouldn’t even need any changes if it were instant-cast and a stunbreak), and one can be heavy condi damage (this means rework flame-axe to give lots of condi application).

Xillllix.3485:

jakethesnake.5132:

Zenith.7301:

I’m surprised they didn’t do that 3 target cap for meteor shower as well.

yes lets just completely gut eles and remove all their damage from WvW. What a great idea…..

Yeah it already makes a huge red circle everyone just dodge out now because of the previous nerf. Most of the time you can barely get a few meteors to hit unless the people are already down.

Meteor shower is what would be called a noob filter in other games. If you see a huge red circle and flaming rocks falling all over it, and you just go ‘yeah let’s stand in that’, you pretty much deserve to get wrecked.

thrag.9740:

Also, if 5 eles are so clearly the best comp, why don’t we see them in game now? I have never once seen “fractal 50, eles only”.

5 eles would’ve been in the best comp for raids.

Like I said before: it doesn’t matter if you’ve never seen anyone use it. Linecasting still exists. Not seeing someone do it doesn’t make it not exist. The amount of people who use it can change in an instant. Hell, I’d even argue that with how frequently pugs will push a boss against a wall/corner, that they’ve been doing it unknowingly for years.

Personally, I’d prefer they just fixed linecasting and kept Icebow where it was.

thrag.9740:

arkealia.2713:

DresdenAllblack.1249:

This is what line casting does for a skill. Ruin a skill because 5% take advantage of a glitch they were too lazy to fix.

Or maybe they wanted to prevent a 5 ele requirement for raids just because of icebow?

Why don’t we have 5 ele meta for fractals?

A raid has 10 people. 5 eles would provide group icebows, while the other 5 players would provide other useful utilities. Phalanx Warriors, support mesmers, etc.

They tried 5 ele sPvP and got pounded. The team then tried 4 Ele and 1 Thief and still ended up loosing. But people were still complaining in the stream about how OP ele was.

Taldren.7523:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Taldren.7523:

PvE is for people that fail at PvP.

No, PvE is for people who try to get away from toxic individuals such as yourself.

Taldren.7523:

PvE? That is only 1/3 the game,

No, PvE are a bunch of people that play the same puzzle over and over again and expect the world for it. Gear scores, Best In Slot, Player priority, and ever other corruption of MMOs has been a direct result of PvE, so please spare me that its the PvP players that are the big bad wolf among the sheep. There are plenty of other games where PvE is the center of the universe … GW2 is/was not one of them.

Your continued toxic and condescending attitude towards pve players just reaffirms what I said earlier.

Taldren.7523:

Azel.4786:

The Icebow nerf to Skill 4 was justified. It was OP, you knew it, I knew it, we all knew it.

The problem is though that after just mentioning the nerf and doing a gesture that I consider to have been just a middle finger to all elementalist, there is no mention of fixing conjurers.

Conjurers are still crap tier utilities (even more so with the nerf), except for FGS that has a single use of being a mobility skill.

In the face of this gigantic issue to an ENTIRE skill type, what does ANET do? Gut one more of the skills in the category and move on as if the job is done.

kittening classic ANET stuff.

No we did not know it. It rooted us, the lowest hitpoint and armor class in the game, in PvP which is both high risk and high situational. Abilities like that are SUPPOSED TO BE powerful.

Exactly. The only way you can wreck a player with IB4 like you wreck a boss in PvE is to root them long enough, and then also create a situation where you yourself can afford to be rooted for the cast.

In most games, that’s more than enough to even justify an instakill.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Taldren.7523:

Azel.4786:

The Icebow nerf to Skill 4 was justified. It was OP, you knew it, I knew it, we all knew it.

The problem is though that after just mentioning the nerf and doing a gesture that I consider to have been just a middle finger to all elementalist, there is no mention of fixing conjurers.

Conjurers are still crap tier utilities (even more so with the nerf), except for FGS that has a single use of being a mobility skill.

In the face of this gigantic issue to an ENTIRE skill type, what does ANET do? Gut one more of the skills in the category and move on as if the job is done.

kittening classic ANET stuff.

No we did not know it. It rooted us, the lowest hitpoint and armor class in the game, in PvP which is both high risk and high situational. Abilities like that are SUPPOSED TO BE powerful.

Exactly. The only way you can wreck a player with IB4 like you wreck a boss in PvE is to root them long enough, and then also create a situation where you yourself can afford to be rooted for the cast.

In most games, that’s more than enough to even justify an instakill.

Ice bow was nerfed because of PvE, it had nothing to do with PvP. In PvE it allowed the ele and an ally to do insane damage, especially against bosses with large hitboxes. This could also be further amplified with linecasting.

Ice bow did need a nerf, but this nerf was larger than what was warranted for most ele players. The reason for the over-nerfing was because of the linecasting exploit which should have been fixed instead.

Whatever the case, conjures have always been clunky utilities that were only ever used if they had an OP ability or two. Their entire design is extremely flawed and Anet should either rework the entire set of skills or scrap them like they did with guardian tomes.

My opinion is that they should not be shareable with allies and and should replace their equivalent attunement skills permanently when activated. For example staff ele could use lightning hammer as a permanent melee option for their air attunement by giving up a utility slot like engineers give up a slot for a kit.

However, because the elementalist already has many weapon skills from attunements, swapping between lightning hammer and air attunement skills should have a 40-60 second cooldown. Unlike kits, conjures would serve as semi-permanent replacements of their equivalent attunements instead of being swappable whenever you want. This would also make full conjure builds possible as you could substitute every attunement with a conjure. Of course the skills of every conjure would also need to be rebalanced.

ele main changes needed to be done but i fear.. without buffs to other area’s… (nerf fire line.. smart..) still most be running earth/ water/ arcane. they made this class and have no idea what to do with it.. they should bring in some fresh blood into their team…

The risk to use ice bow on pvp is to huge for nerfing it. Even in pve we just use it for 2 skills and then through it away. So now it will be just like the rest of the conjures, USELESS!
But as it seams ANET doesn’t care for that group of skills anyways, they don’t even change “conjurer” trait to be actually useful… to give some protection or smt when u use a conjured and u risk your life!

Jaetara.4075:

The risk to use ice bow on pvp is to huge for nerfing it. Even in pve we just use it for 2 skills and then through it away. So now it will be just like the rest of the conjures, USELESS!
But as it seams ANET doesn’t care for that group of skills anyways, they don’t even change “conjurer” trait to be actually useful… to give some protection or smt when u use a conjured and u risk your life!

Yeah they should trash the conjure trait line as well and put something useful there since nobody will be using conjures now except to move around WvW with the fgs skill 3.

The only problem with icebow 4 was that the damage was pretty excessive against large hit boxes. This literally constitutes less than .1% of all potential targets in the game. Now it is still probably pretty good against the .1% but useless against the 99.9%.

So rather than actually fixing the problem, just gut it so we can pretend it doesn’t exist anymore, outside of a few very specific circumstances.

As for line casting, same thing. Why nerf a skill that is too strong when used in an exploitative way (that is virtually never used any ways) rather than fixing the exploit? If the exploit is too tricky to fix, then the nerf should have come with a compensation buff in another area so that the skill would still worth using. How about making the 5 skill no longer root the user? Or just make the 1-3 skills worth the utility slot? Or how about adding healing to ice storm, so it is supportive, while not affecting its potential against large hit boxes or with line casting. None of those would be game breaking in pve, and they could even help frostbow actually become viable in pvp for something other than gimmick one-shot builds (which it can’t even do now since ice storm will only do tickle damage). Now there is simply no reason to use it aside from the limited situations where it actually was op to begin with.

The only reason ice bow is to be used was 4th skill….Wp Anet

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

thrag.9740:

Also, if 5 eles are so clearly the best comp, why don’t we see them in game now? I have never once seen “fractal 50, eles only”.

5 eles would’ve been in the best comp for raids.

Like I said before: it doesn’t matter if you’ve never seen anyone use it. Linecasting still exists. Not seeing someone do it doesn’t make it not exist. The amount of people who use it can change in an instant. Hell, I’d even argue that with how frequently pugs will push a boss against a wall/corner, that they’ve been doing it unknowingly for years.

Personally, I’d prefer they just fixed linecasting and kept Icebow where it was.

thrag.9740:

arkealia.2713:

DresdenAllblack.1249:

This is what line casting does for a skill. Ruin a skill because 5% take advantage of a glitch they were too lazy to fix.

Or maybe they wanted to prevent a 5 ele requirement for raids just because of icebow?

Why don’t we have 5 ele meta for fractals?

A raid has 10 people. 5 eles would provide group icebows, while the other 5 players would provide other useful utilities. Phalanx Warriors, support mesmers, etc.

Oh i get what you mean, 50% party comp as eles, which is close to what people consider meta now.

It does matter whether or not I have seen it, because we want to discuss whether line casting is widely used. We also need to discuss whether balancing around a minority is smart. If anet had just removed aoe compression, they would be fixing linecasting. Instead it sounds like anet is balancing around line casting. Which sucks.

You’re in luck! They fixed linecasting AND nerfed icebow.

So now it really will never be used.

I am really glad they fixed line casting and nerfed the stuff… it means people might actually try to use skill to kill bosses instead of broken glitches. Go Anet!!

Yes, because removing skills as viable options on your skillbar means you play with more skills. We have an entire class of skills that is all next to worthless, only lightning hammer stands out and only for scepter builds (and hey if the scepter buffs were good enough (they’re not, but if they were!) lightning hammer wouldn’t be used either). FGS is only used because there’s nothing else even remotely good for that skill slot. Even Irenio and Grouch admit Tornado is trash but they just leave it as trash.

So now, everyone will just have cantrips, because now we definitely need those cantrips for vigor.

Also kind of funny how you talk about “needing skill” when linecasting required skill to pull off. There’s a reason people only used it for gimmicky videos to show off that they could do it. the positioning and timing required made it impractical for normal use.

That was “skill”.

Same kind of people complain about animation cancelling in TESO, yeah, it increases people’s dps and is kind of a glitch but at the same time, it raises the skill cap of the game because low skill level people can’t effectively animation cancel.

If they wanted to nerf Ice Bow damage by 50% just remove the second Ice Bow spawn. That was the right change.

Just need to buffs its cc abitly. So make its 5 skill aoe and its 4 skill that they just nerfed in dmg add a major chill on it. Kind of like each wepon fills a roll it was odd that the healing condition duration wepon did the most power dmg lol. Lighting hammer should do the most power dmg.