Guild Wars 2

mak.9027:

I was using it with daggers, this is not just the staff-wielding community afaik. I just would like a single finisher per field or a single finisher every X seconds. That would at least bring back the fun.

This exactly. Everyone knew it was eventually going to get nerfed, but I don’t think anyone predicted that they’d remove the finishers completely. Especially without compensating with any sort of buff to make other choices viable, just some minor bug fixes and tooltip updates.

I also loved it with daggers. But it was even better with staff.
I don’t get it. Games are supposed to be fun. Elementalists were fun with the trait (fun, not overpowered). Now they’re less fun.

Bad devs are bad.

I wasn’t even aware that this was a “bug” until the update. I know the blast finisher effect on every roll (say two in a row) was a bug, but I thought that at least one was intended. I just want the finisher effect back. Give it a cooldown, if it’s really that overpowered.

mak.9027:

I was using it with daggers, this is not just the staff-wielding community afaik. I just would like a single finisher per field or a single finisher every X seconds. That would at least bring back the fun.

This is very true… not my intent to exclude anyone else, I could only speak from personal experience as a staff user.

Community (regardless of weapon) LOVES (old) Evasive Arcana!

Removing the blast finisher when the spell is on the 10 second cooldown would have made sense, as that DID seem unintended. Few people would be griping about it if that were changed (well, maybe we would a little, but I think most would acknowledge it would be a legitimate change).

Entirely removing the blast finishers on every single EA spell as “unintended” is complete bull, however. It completely destroys a unique and active play style – and one that I’ve never heard called overpowered.

I still slot it simply because there’s no other truly applicable choice for me, and I feel like not having the full 60% attunement swap buff is just too much to live without. I’m not particularly happy that it was nerfed this hard though.

I would have been happy with:

A.) No more blast finishers, but the effects from EA are increased (Churning Earth stacks 3 bleeds instead of 1…etc)

B.) One blast finisher every 10 seconds, even if it was only for Earth / Fire and nothing else.

C.) Completely Neutered like it is now, but global cooldowns on attunement swap is lowered OR we have some other worthless major traits get a slight boost.

I love how some are saying, “But they fixed the other skills! You’re just looking for a reason to complain!” Look at it like this, I’ve seen warriors say that Vengence doesn’t trigger in dungeons; that if they use it and kill a mob in a dungeon, they’ll still die. Let’s say that the devs fixed this and said, “Well we never intended 100 blades to hit each time, so we’re only going to make it hit once for the same amount as the first hit. We’re also going to keep the animation.” Warriors would throw a fit! That’s what we’re facing. There wasn’t any complaints about EA Blast. Why? Because no one found it a threat.

I find this all very ironic due to the fact that we were going to invite our friends to play. If they came in these forums, it’d be like a horrible date with a bunch of problems and they would bail out the bathroom window.

Shademare.8369:

Milennin.4825:

I also loved it with daggers. But it was even better with staff.
I don’t get it. Games are supposed to be fun. Elementalists were fun with the trait (fun, not overpowered). Now they’re less fun.

Bad devs are bad.

NO! Flopmentalist were never intended to be FUN! Flopmentalist were suppose to flop all day!

Oh wow, that made me laugh too hard. I just imagined the elementalist icon replaced with a little Goldeen.

Mephane.8496:

Evasive Arcana: This trait no longer creates unintended fun.

Seriously. Rolling in and out of field, both my own and those of group mates, was what made ele support so exceptionally fun that I could still overlook all the bugs, potential underpoweredness, fragility and so on. It was just so much fun that I still cannot grasp how they could just remove it entirely. Tying the blast finisher to the spells produced by the trait, and thus their cooldowns, should have been enough of a nerf and would have been accepted by the elementalist community easily, because it would have been reasonable without crippling our capabilities or destroying the fun in quite a number of interesting builds.

Agree with every single word, I just ran Twilight Arbor and this change to Evasive Arcana makes my Elementalist less fun to play by a wide margin.

Aiming my dodges so i would end up inside a field was fun, I especialy loved rolling into the smaller ones like Geyser and Burning Retrat/Speed while playing D/D.

Having to manage my energy so I would have enough to dodge key attacks while blasting fields was fun.

Evasive Arcana was overpowered, no one will deny it, but it was an extremely fun trait.

Since you, ANet, said you care about your playerbase feedback, listen to the message this topic bears: bring back Evasive Arcana’s blast finishers, let them obey spells’ cd, tie them to Churning Earth… I don’t care, just bring em back.

staff is really dead at least for me..i tried playing it and im weaker in almost every area.
I just cant face a tank guardian anymore without feeling jelousy and anger..i cant

I think the removal of the “blast” is good. I think that the skill, in general, was too good and almost was required to be a complete build.

Guys, it’s just the blast. It still does damage, just not as much as it used to (or heal as much). If they didn’t get rid of the blast then I believe that they would have nerfed too many OTHER things to make it balanced…which would have nerfed those elementalists that don’t run 30 points arcana.

It’s a legit change that, in my opinion, was mostly warranted. Sure, I loved it—but it’s logical.

Another D/D ele here that loved it and is sad that that kind of strategic/positional gameplay element with self-comboing and teamwork is now gone. Yes, the double heals in water fields were definitely bugged and overpowered, but like everyone else I expected that to be put on an internal 10s cooldown this patch, but having them removed entirely is a surprise. Using the blasts in EA was one of the most fun parts of my playstyle. I’m really baffled and saddened by this change.

I think it’s still amazing. I will still trait for it and use it. It’s versatile and will still condition the enemy for cripples, heal us, and do aoe fire damage. We’ll still have kitten near infinite vigor, so it’s not like we’re not going to be dodging often.

Listen to the fanboys you guys, EA is still good! Still worth 30 pointss.

Why? Because ANet did it! That alone makes it a good thing and worth getting!

Stop having unintended fun and start having fun the RIGHT way, i.e. stand at 1200 (because if you have a staff you have NO REASON not to be at max range 100% of the time) fire off auto attack and press two buttons. You know, THE WAY YOU’RE SUPPOSED TO PLAY! THAT’s how you’re SUPPOSED to have fun!

Not pressing more buttons, pressing buttons isn’t fun, standing at max range and falling asleep is fun! You were pressing too many buttons!

During the last few rounds of patches I’d slowly began to develop doubts about going on with my ele. As it is, the class is an uphill struggle, that is not to say that I don’t enjoy the complexity and difficulty, it’s really quite fun, but that the reward for it just isn’t apparent, if it is actually there. There is nothing more depressing than spending over half a minute killing a mob in Orr, dropping down all kinds of CC’s, dps and combos (oh wait…) and then see a warrior walk up beside you and kill the same mob in two or three swings. It’s heart-breaking, I felt (un)intentionally mocked. Either way, at this point, I’m not sure I can convince myself anymore that things will improve any time soon.

Though I did and do sometimes experiment using d/d and s/d, it somehow never quite sits right with my preferences; not to mention that I’d feel silly on top of a wall in WvW while wielding them. The fact that battle mode can linger forever under certain circumstances (preventing weapon swap) unless the target dies or you run out of screen range doesn’t help in that case. Given the timing of this patch, I’ll likely complete my monthly with my ele and participate in the one-off event since it’s my only level 80 char, but after that, I believe I’ll be dabbling with my alts for a change. A breath of fresh air, perhaps.

My strong preference is playing a mage in MMO’s, I really don’t enjoy other classes over any period of time (except as a very occasional diversion) nor do I like playing melee mages, i.e D/D, though others seem to have found success there. As several others have indicated, the EA blast finisher and staff made for both great support and a challenging/fun play style. Prior to trying EA out and learning how to use it reasonably well, I had intended to stop playing GW2 because the game was getting frustrating for me (having to choose between a glass pee-shooter or a survivable but pathetic damager)- I had also recommended to friends to not buy GW2 because of this. EA had changed my mind – but I’ts borked now.

I find it strange that the developers did not just fix the EA finisher capability (e.g. on its own 10s timer), EA really is a very minor trait that provides some benefit in water only.

How are mages doing in “panda land” ?

Naw, if I ever decide to go back to this game, I’ll be swapping it for the -20% cooldown on Arcane skills. I’d move my trait points around, but Elementalists are borderline unplayable for me without full attunement swap cooldown reduction.

Unless the Earth part of EA (Churning Earth) does full damage + bleeds it will never be good enough.

It’s still worth it for the water dodge. There’s just not much else to choose from.

Mik Hell.8206:

I just ran Twilight Arbor and this change to Evasive Arcana makes my Elementalist less fun to play by a wide margin.

I just ran CoF path 1 and 2, and it was quite boring. I mostly stood at max range and cast Eruption + any water field when someone needed healing, otherwise mostly spammed fireballs and stoning. And for that I specced 30 water and 30 arcane, got full exotic cleric equipment.

Hi everyone,

Please refrain from personal attacks and going off topic. Keep the thread friendly and constructive.

Thanks

I only switched to Evasive Arcana recently, and don’t really see a difference. Could someone please explain to me what the difference in damage/conditions is now? For example I see people complaining about the Fire damage on the dodge roll. How much damage was the Fire blast finisher doing before this patch? Was the cooldown on the effects always 10 seconds, or was it different before?

The blind and cripple are helpful, especially for D/D. But a damage buff would be nice.

EDIT:
@tomlin: the damage is the same, the attacks just no longer count as blast finishers.

tomlin.8204:

I only switched to Evasive Arcana recently, and don’t really see a difference. Could someone please explain to me what the difference in damage/conditions is now? For example I see people complaining about the Fire damage on the dodge roll. How much damage was the Fire blast finisher doing before this patch? Was the cooldown on the effects always 10 seconds, or was it different before?

You had blast finishers (though apparently those were not on a CD?) which meant you could get more might stacks, aoe healing, swiftness, blinds or whatever else blast finishers give for their respective fields.

Furby.5693:

If they didn’t get rid of the blast then I believe that they would have nerfed too many OTHER things to make it balanced…which would have nerfed those elementalists that don’t run 30 points arcana.

30 Arcana was already (and is still) necessary because of the incredibly long base cooldown of attunement swaps. I need 30 points in Arcana just to make my Ele feel fluid. That the only worthwhile Grandmaster Trait is in Arcana just makes me feel like I made the right decision.

If the other Grandmaster traits weren’t terrible and we could dance attunements with just 10 or 20 points in Arcana, then EA would’ve been optional and the class as a whole would’ve been better. Nerfing EA didn’t magically make the other bad options fun. It just made the one fun option bad as well. I’m not shackled to my Elementalist. I can spend my time doing any of a number of things playing him. Nerf all the fun bits and I can just go back to Skyrim, where at least I can mod the unfun parts.

It was OP with ability to proc it more than once under the 10 sec ICD for sure.

But removing it entirely?

Cheaper and easier to wreck it totally than reworking the skill, I guess.

Path of least resistance ftw.

it made elementalist viable for healing not to mention the skill that was needed to heal ur mates.
put down healing fields and dodge through it.. keeping an eye on cooldowns and everything.. I havent seen any game so far where healers could be so dynamic
it was awesome and I dont believe taking this away was even close to a good idea.. 5-10s cooldown would have been ok. I never saw anyone complain about this being OP tho..

I’ll simply say I don’t feel like playing today… Ele was the only class I found fun in pve, and after the gutting of staff pve build (a nerf would have been fine), I really have little hope for the future of this game/my char. A response would be welcome, but I hope Anet is seriously working out why their dev process could end up upsetting so many players, and fixing it.

If you build your character around Evasive Arcane and feel that you can’t do without it, you’ve done something wrong. Really, it sounds ridiculous when someone complaints that they can’t do anything without it rolls eyes until they bleed.

Michael.3279:

It should be INCREDIBLY clear at this point that a majority of vocal staff-wielding Elementalists enjoyed the kitten/puppy/panda out of the ability to dodge roll into our fields to finish them.

It gave us something to do besides sit at 1200 yards and spam.
It made us feel like we were really contributing to out party’s efforts.
It increased the fun-factor of playing a Staff Elementalist tenfold.

So while we understand that the blast finisher effect was not intended (though there are serious questions about churning earth), it was a bug that the community found quite rewarding and opened up an entire style of play that was previously unavailable to the profession. This should be obvious by the amount of people who had been using the build now reporting that the class seems empty and broken without it.

Take this to heart Devs… it means something. Just because it was not intended, does not mean that it wasn’t worth keeping in the arsenal. Your community LOVES it.

So now that Evasive Arcana is useless… and it IS. Please consider reintroducing this play-style, albeit with fair restrictions. Increase and fix the Cooldown and whatever else it is you have to do to make it fit your balance bill… but bring it back.

Personally, I would love it if any and all damage/effects BESIDES the finisher itself were removed from EA. Even better? Depending on which attunement is up dictates the finisher type… Fire = Projectile, Water = Blast, Lightning = Leap, Earth = Whirling… Yeah yeah yeah, I know that’s a little crazy, but hotDOG would that be fun.

Gutting EA the way you did was overkill and does nobody any favors. Were we really OP with it? I still felt like the weakest kitten/puppy/panda profession in the game, but at least I could DANCE. I’m really finding it hard to even want to log in now… seriously.

What the kitten? Just merged every topic into the same thread and call it “Elementalists posts we don’t care about”… garbage.

Mephane.8496:

Evasive Arcana, on the other hand, simply got destroyed. They should just have bound the Blast Finisher to the 10 second internal cooldown of the spell effects, or even its own global 10 second cooldown independent of the spells, to make it reasonable yet still useful and fun.

The effect already has a cooldown per-attunement and is limited globally by your Energy. I really don’t see why it needed to be nerfed at all.

Furby.5693:

I think the removal of the “blast” is good. I think that the skill, in general, was too good and almost was required to be a complete build.

Guys, it’s just the blast. It still does damage, just not as much as it used to (or heal as much). If they didn’t get rid of the blast then I believe that they would have nerfed too many OTHER things to make it balanced…which would have nerfed those elementalists that don’t run 30 points arcana.

It’s a legit change that, in my opinion, was mostly warranted. Sure, I loved it—but it’s logical.

It wasn’t “just” the blast finisher. The blast finishers were the main point of using the trait, the damage was always negligible. That’s like removing the damage from dragon’s tooth or the stun on static field. There’s nothing “logical” about completely destroying a trait and most staff builds without some sort of other staff buff in return; especially when they had the option of just toning down the amount of finishes rather than completely removing them, which would also mean buff’s in other places wouldn’t be necessary.

Navzar.2938:

Furby.5693:

I think the removal of the “blast” is good. I think that the skill, in general, was too good and almost was required to be a complete build.

Guys, it’s just the blast. It still does damage, just not as much as it used to (or heal as much). If they didn’t get rid of the blast then I believe that they would have nerfed too many OTHER things to make it balanced…which would have nerfed those elementalists that don’t run 30 points arcana.

It’s a legit change that, in my opinion, was mostly warranted. Sure, I loved it—but it’s logical.

It wasn’t “just” the blast finisher. The blast finishers were the main point of using the trait, the damage was always negligible. That’s like removing the damage from dragon’s tooth or the stun on shocking aura. There’s nothing “logical” about completely destroying a trait and most staff builds without some sort of other staff buff in return; especially when they had the option of just toning down the amount of finishes rather than completely removing them, which would also mean buff’s in other places wouldn’t be necessary.

Yeah, the damage on EA is really, really bad. It’s frankly not worth the Energy just to get the extra damage when you can just autoattack.

EA was OP and it has been fixed. Stop complaining.

miklo.3610:

EA was OP and it has been fixed. Stop complaining.

It had to be fixed, not nerfed to death. And it was only OP with water field finishers, and now all staff builds have been killed because it was the only thing keeping them floating. Think of the other things it affects, not just the one OP build.

miklo.3610:

EA was OP and it has been fixed. Stop complaining.

The bugged part of EA was OP, the skill its self should still have a blast finisher on a 10/sec CD per attunment. There is ZERO reason to take this “GRANDMASTER TRAIT” in a trait line that is some what manditory to put 30 points into, anyone thats ever played a staff ele would know that…so please go back to the thief forums.

Navzar.2938:

miklo.3610:

EA was OP and it has been fixed. Stop complaining.

It had to be fixed, not nerfed to death. And it was only OP with water field finishers, and now all staff builds have been killed because it was the only thing keeping them floating. Think of the other things it affects, not just the one OP build.

I don’t think that staff builds are “dead”.

Furby.5693:

I think it’s still amazing. I will still trait for it and use it. It’s versatile and will still condition the enemy for cripples, heal us, and do aoe fire damage. We’ll still have kitten near infinite vigor, so it’s not like we’re not going to be dodging often.

Hardly amazing. The water heal is good, but as a 30 point trait? Eh. The cripple is pretty pointless and doesn’t last very long, also very little damage. The fire damage is a joke. The aoe blind while okay is like point blank range and is extremely hard to actually hit your target with it.

The problem is not really that evasive arcane got nerfed. The problem is they didn’t fix any of the other traits or give another viable option to replace it.

I’ve been telling people elementalists are fine, but could use some bug fixes and maybe a small buff. Instead we get a huge nerf to one of our few traits or some other random nerfs. What? I’m still laughing at the tornado change. I mean seriously? A nerf to tornado?

Even I’m kinda of baffled by these changes. Nerfing OP builds is fine, but you have to replace those builds with other viable options if there aren’t that many options to begin with. That’s why sPvP and classes are so boring to begin with is because most of the traits are worthless. Until they fix those only 1 or 2 builds are going to work per class and that’s why everyone is using them.

By the way, anyone who says that EA gives 4 spells, which makes it useful, I just tested out EA in Heart of the Mists as it is now. Here are the approximate stats on the dodge-spell effects:
Water: Heals for ~1k health
Earth: Cripples for ~1sec, 1-stack bleed for some period of time
Fire: Regular burning fire, same as you could get from any Fire Attunement ability that applies burning
Air: Blinds for 5 seconds

I don’t know about you, but I don’t see anything there that isn’t already covered by pretty much any combination of ele weapons. Not only that, but some of them, like the Earth one, seem to be even worse than anything that attunement can normally cast.

The effects of these ‘spells’ without blast finishers are not worth a GM slot. A dev answer as to what they’ll do with this trait would be nice, but seems unlikely given what I’ve seen so far.

AoE-heal / staff eles, you have my condolences. Might-stack eles, you can still scrape out something similar by going scepter/dagger (Earthquake, Churning Earth, Phoenix, Dragon’s Tooth whenever its blast finisher is actually added back in, Arcane Wave). I’m just thankful that I didn’t buy the order staff that I wanted before this patch.

Moderator.1462:

Hi everyone,

Please refrain from personal attacks and going off topic. Keep the thread friendly and constructive.

Thanks

It can’t be constructive if you guys aren’t LISTENING.
At the very least get somebody in here with an explanation, I’ll go buy some more gems right now if that’s what you need to hire some extra staff on… bad enough that you apparently (this is just what I’ve heard) don’t have somebody in your prof balance dept playing ele, you also apparently (this is what I’m seeing with my own eyes) don’t have anybody willing to explain to hundreds/thousands of people the reasoning and plan behind your nerfs.
So glad I geared up my ele, now he looks awesome when I log in to store things in his inventory.

miklo.3610:

Navzar.2938:

miklo.3610:

EA was OP and it has been fixed. Stop complaining.

It had to be fixed, not nerfed to death. And it was only OP with water field finishers, and now all staff builds have been killed because it was the only thing keeping them floating. Think of the other things it affects, not just the one OP build.

I don’t think that staff builds are “dead”.

There’s no longer a reason to take them over a D/D or S/D now. Being worse in almost every situation practically means they’re dead. Only thing they’re better for is snaring and WvW.

Again, it’s not about OPness or the use of bugged part of a trait. It is simply the death of a very fun playstyle. Blast finisher at the expense of a dodge seems reasonable enough with a good CD.

It is awesome that the community has made more thread than the mods can merge. The front of ele forum is all about EA.

C Blair.7810:

AoE-heal / staff eles, you have my condolences. Might-stack eles, you can still scrape out something similar by going scepter/dagger (Earthquake, Churning Earth, Phoenix, Dragon’s Tooth whenever its blast finisher is actually added back in, Arcane Wave). I’m just thankful that I didn’t buy the order staff that I wanted before this patch.

Even when they fix Dragons tooth, you will still never see the blast go off inside the field. If the player doesnt move out of the field, thowing a DT in will for sure get him out of it

Dragon’s Tooth, assuming it gets fixed, will be fine for PvE.

Live human opponents, of course, are a whole other matter.

I guess even this Grandmaster Trait couldn’t evade being made worthless.

I’m trying to wonder if the elimination of this trait was worth it to make a joke like that

I use elimination over nerf, because there is no point in taking this trait in PvE now. (eliminated). Maybe water EA may have some niche use in PvP.

Sequekhan.2091:

I don’t know much about the end game phase of play, but here is where my current Elementalist stands.

I was level 60 yesterday trying to do my story instance, which was scaling me down to level 50. I died exactly 18 times, all my armor was destroyed, and I have zero money.

Out in the open world, I’m afraid of skill points because I might have to fight something, and I tend to only join in on world event bosses if I’m confident I’ll never pull agro.

What build works? None.
Why can’t you kite? CC skills lame and I can’t run and I have no health and no defence.
Why not just kill them? I just used every skill on all my element sets and its still alive.

IDK how a publisher can release such dross. How can EVERY other class be better in EVERY way?

Sorcs one-shot world bosses in Aion, Elementalists one-shot rabbits in GW2. It’s the worst bungle I’ve seen in a game since Stalin vs Martians.

i don’t want to say this, but: L2P.

i was wandering around straits today on my D/D ele. i don’t have great gear, either, all master work level 80 greens (carrion/cleric combination) and my only exotic is my main-hand dagger.

i was doing completely fine. i was taking on 4-5 monsters without falling below half health and still had my heal and all three utilities available… well, not arcane wave, but, i still had mist form and earth armor.

OT: the blast finisher on EA was obviously some kind of bug. iirc, the tooptip for the trait didn’t say anything about it. also, the earth finisher isn’t churning earth. it has the graphic for it, but, its more in line with ring of earth (D-MH “2”)

Blaine Tog.8304:

Yeah, the damage on EA is really, really bad. It’s frankly not worth the Energy just to get the extra damage when you can just autoattack.

Not to mention, it’s pretty stupid as a cloth-wearing class to use precious energy for dodging into enemies just to get a short-duration condition and ~100 damage. The water attunement finisher is the only one that’s worthwhile, and it’s not worth a GM slot.

ATMAvatar.5749:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Yeah, the damage on EA is really, really bad. It’s frankly not worth the Energy just to get the extra damage when you can just autoattack.

Not to mention, it’s pretty stupid as a cloth-wearing class to use precious energy for dodging into enemies just to get a short-duration condition and ~100 damage. The water attunement finisher is the only one that’s worthwhile, and it’s not worth a GM slot.

My water attunement EA doesn’t even go off when not acting as a combo finisher, either. I have no idea why, either. It’s really weird, but is basically means I can’t use EA in water at all anymore.

The thing that gets me the most is that the blast finishers (after the timer fix) on EA should have been a model for how a good grandmaster trait should be. It wasn’t mindless “lol op” facerolling; it was anything but. It required setting up fields, it required accurate positioning, it required sacrificing our endurance. It gave us a legitimate trade-off that would reward smart and active play by allowing us to elevate our characters in a variety of ways depending on how we set it up.

Some used it for healing and support. Others used it for might. Heck, I sometimes used it for swiftness. It benefited all attunements in both solo and group play.

Is this not the sort of gameplay that should be encouraged? To me, exactly that sort of versatility and active play is what the elementalist is all about. Elementalists are the antithesis of facerolling, and I wouldn’t have it any other way. It’s what I love most about the class.

Evasive Arcana was a sublime grandmaster trait, one of the few worthy of being in the grandmaster slot, the sort of trait every other grandmaster trait should strive to be.

Now, though, it’s been ruined. A dev should at least tell us if its current behavior was intended or not, and if it’s not, then a fix should be top priority.

• Armor Of Earth didn’t do what the description said. Solution: Fix the tooltip.
• Healing Rain didn’t do what the description said. Solution: Fix the tooltip.
• Churning Earth didn’t do what the description said. Solution: Fix the tooltip.
• Phoenix didn’t do what the description said. Solution: Fix the tooltip
• Evasive Arcana didn’t do what the description said. Solution: Nerf it to hell.

So my question isn’t why Evasive Arcana was nerfed. obviously that blash finisher was unintended.

My question is why Churning Earth, Phoenix, Armor of Earth and Healing Rain were nerfed to hell. Because using the same logic, it was obviously unintended for Phoenix to only have 5s vigor, and unintended for Churning Earth to not explode when you released the 5 button.