Guild Wars 2

draxynnic.3719:

The actual problem with fire tornado getting a fire field might be because it’s already a whirl finisher, and thus it might finish with itself…

…mind you, while that may be the reasoning, it would also probably be quite a bit cooler than just upping the damage.

Nado works that way so its not comply odd or even really see as an op effect. But hay take away whirl finisher ele getting an movable fire field is much better. That is if you give water overload an water field air overload an lighting field not sure what to do about earth.

Xillllix.3485:

Even if they doubled the damage, a warrior in berserker mode or rampage will still beat a Tempest elementalist facerolling on his keyboard. The fact that they gave the heaviest class more mobility and absolutely no mobility for the squishiest class just shows how badly balanced these elite profession are. We all agree here: the overloads should not stop you from doing other things (using skills, swapping attunements, dodging), the chanelling should be shorter if any at all, and you shouldn’t have to camp an attunement to get them.

Tempest needed both mobility, range and AoE damage/cc. It got none of both these things and even worse, it puts you in a very difficult situation, against shatter mesmers who can burst you from stealth for 15k dps, and rampage warrior who can hit you for 9k with Maurauder gear while being tankier. Basically it’s not usable in any sort of competitive context at all, it was either in pre-beta state or is really badly conceived.

Edit: And the new warrior elite is on a 20 second cooldown… facepalm

Tempest is not dmg its like comparing an staff gurd not doing as high of dmg to an GS war (not sure what war highest dmg wepon is atm). Tempest is a support class THAT should be the aim of what ppl are asking for not more dmg.

Jski.6180:

Tempest is not dmg its like comparing an staff gurd not doing as high of dmg to an GS war (not sure what war highest dmg wepon is atm). Tempest is a support class THAT should be the aim of what ppl are asking for not more dmg.

There is no such thing as melee range support for the elementalist besides elemental attunement. It’s not going to work, I’ve tested it in wvw. Auras aren’t really good support (and you can share them fine without tempest) and the protection isn’t lacking for melee. It’s much better support to drop a waterfield, a chill field, a static field and a meteor. What are you gonna do instead with Warhorn? Overload at melee range and cross your fingers not to get interrupted?

Why would Tempest be a support class when all the other elite professions have different possible play styles? The support it gives is abysmal anyway. All you have is a waterfield you cant control and some boon duration share/buff.
Guardians can do 10 times more support without losing their damage, and so can a staff ele not running tempest.

Xillllix.3485:

Jski.6180:

Tempest is not dmg its like comparing an staff gurd not doing as high of dmg to an GS war (not sure what war highest dmg wepon is atm). Tempest is a support class THAT should be the aim of what ppl are asking for not more dmg.

There is no such thing as melee range support for the elementalist besides elemental attunement. It’s not going to work, I’ve tested it in wvw. Auras aren’t really good support (and you can share them fine without tempest) and the protection isn’t lacking for melee. It’s much better support to drop a waterfield, a chill field, a static field and a meteor. What are you gonna do instead with Warhorn? Overload at melee range and cross your fingers not to get interrupted?

Why would Tempest be a support class when all the other elite professions have different possible play styles? The support it gives is abysmal anyway. All you have is a waterfield you cant control and some boon duration share/buff.
Guardians can do 10 times more support without losing their damage, and so can a staff ele not running tempest.

Auras are really powerful support becuse they are both an “boon like effect” that you cant have ripped off and they tend to have a cc effect on-top of that with icd per person and not per effect.

Tempest can still use staff and if the overloads get fields on all of them then staff tempest will be better for support then staff ele though i must say tempest is better support then ele atm just not that much better.

You may not like support and that ok but not every elite spec is going to be higher and higher dmg that would just be silly each elite spec fills a roll tempest fills the support roll to near pure support roll. To try to make it into an ele but better dmg is going to fail badly and be bad power creep that will kill the use of ele over all. Wait for the next elite spec for ele it may do dmg that you want though it may be a full on tank too.

Jski.6180:

i must say tempest is better support then ele atm just not that much better.

No it’s not, and that’s probably the worst thing about tempest!
Hopefully it can be fixed, and it HAVE TO!

Jski.6180:

You may not like support and that ok but not every elite spec is going to be higher and higher dmg that would just be silly each elite spec fills a roll tempest fills the support roll to near pure support roll. To try to make it into an ele but better dmg is going to fail badly and be bad power creep that will kill the use of ele over all. Wait for the next elite spec for ele it may do dmg that you want though it may be a full on tank too.

Well DD and Staff are very strong at support, bringing one new way of support was a very bad call. Elite spec were said to give the class a way to play a role where it sucks. And every other elite spec follow this though (even tho we could argue that berserker isn’t really about condi but that’s off topic).
Well they went full kitten by going support on a class that didn’t need it, np, at least make it wvw bus melee support, the only spot where ele currently suck as support.
Cause, a lot of tempest-hater got over it: they can’t make tempest something else than support, we will wait next elite spec for good calls, but now that they made this bad call, they need to make it at least somewhat usefull (read: open melee support wvw play)

Jski.6180:

though i must say tempest is better support then ele atm just not that much better.

One of the problems of pure support specs is that they don’t fare well neither in spvp, nor in pve. It needs to be able to do something else as well, be it high mobility, 1v1 ability, high dps (esp. for pve) or something. Even if they improve the support of tempest, it may still not see much play.

Mattmatt.4962:

Jski.6180:

i must say tempest is better support then ele atm just not that much better.

No it’s not, and that’s probably the worst thing about tempest!
Hopefully it can be fixed, and it HAVE TO!

Jski.6180:

You may not like support and that ok but not every elite spec is going to be higher and higher dmg that would just be silly each elite spec fills a roll tempest fills the support roll to near pure support roll. To try to make it into an ele but better dmg is going to fail badly and be bad power creep that will kill the use of ele over all. Wait for the next elite spec for ele it may do dmg that you want though it may be a full on tank too.

Well DD and Staff are very strong at support, bringing one new way of support was a very bad call. Elite spec were said to give the class a way to play a role where it sucks. And every other elite spec follow this though (even tho we could argue that berserker isn’t really about condi but that’s off topic).
Well they went full kitten by going support on a class that didn’t need it, np, at least make it wvw bus melee support, the only spot where ele currently suck as support.
Cause, a lot of tempest-hater got over it: they can’t make tempest something else than support, we will wait next elite spec for good calls, but now that they made this bad call, they need to make it at least somewhat usefull (read: open melee support wvw play)

Think of it on these lines tempest line gets 2 aura out puts in some ways tempest line gets 5 aura out puts 4 from each atument overload. Where all the ele lines at most gets 1. With the right set up a d/d tempest will have up to 10 auras 5 of them are frost aura the strongest aura we have atm. (it would be nice if they added more effects to the other aura like shocking give you more crit dmg earth give you more def etc… but for now frost aura gives you the most and has no limitation on its ranged effect if some one hits you they are chilled).

Boon support is more in the realm of d/wh or s/wh tempest the problem with ele boon support is the limited ranges on boon swapping its just simply way to short often its more of a self support then a team support. So tempest gets a nice ranges boots on there boons support though wh fire 4 boon sharing ontop of that it gets the abitly to “share” stab or AoE with ppl the only real stab support tempest or ele can pull off.

As for staff support tempest this is where my ideal of making a field for each overload falls into play if you let staff ele get one more water field you cut the need for other support staff ele you get the abitly to provide water fields one that you can move with your team at your will making moving blast ealiser to pull off. What this means it lets other ele go all in dmg the current dmg dealing build for the ele classes.

Don’t talk about staff in wvw, i feel like you donno what you’re talking about, “staff ele going support” do not exist, everyone goes full damage and provide water field. (outside of gvg but that’s off topic)

For WH as melee:
Here is a good way to fix: make rock solid worth: 3 or maybe even 5 stability stack, and give it a real radius! 5àà is the bare minimum (so should be for every support trait form the ele by the way). earthen proxy: prot YOU APPLY is enhanced => sinergy with prot on aura
001101 earth water tempest, provide enhanced prot, aura, heal, cleanse, cc, boon duration
No build diversity tho, but at least it viable cause it offers STABILITY!!!
No wvw melee support build is allowed to not provide stability.

Jski.6180:

Auras are really powerful support becuse they are both an “boon like effect” that you cant have ripped off and they tend to have a cc effect on-top of that with icd per person and not per effect.

This is quite unique to believe that burning, chill, vulnerability or projectile reflection is a “cc effect”.

rotten.9753:

Jski.6180:

Auras are really powerful support becuse they are both an “boon like effect” that you cant have ripped off and they tend to have a cc effect on-top of that with icd per person and not per effect.

This is quite unique to believe that burning, chill, vulnerability or projectile reflection is a “cc effect”.

Yes they are all types of cc well burning not really a full cc is more of a cover and you seemly leaved off being stunned from shocking aura. So… yes auras are a type of buff/cc effect that tempest gets a lot of more then d/d ele.

Jski.6180:

rotten.9753:

Jski.6180:

Auras are really powerful support becuse they are both an “boon like effect” that you cant have ripped off and they tend to have a cc effect on-top of that with icd per person and not per effect.

This is quite unique to believe that burning, chill, vulnerability or projectile reflection is a “cc effect”.

Yes they are all types of cc well burning not really a full cc is more of a cover and you seemly leaved off being stunned from shocking aura. So… yes auras are a type of buff/cc effect that tempest gets a lot of more then d/d ele.

Chill is a Soft-CC and Stun is a Hard-CC. The others aren’t CC at all.
Regardless, they rely entirely on your opponent hitting you; which isn’t great. The only really good Auras are Frost(10% damage reduction) and Shocking(Stun) and the latter is the only one the Tempest can’t easily share.

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

rotten.9753:

Jski.6180:

Auras are really powerful support becuse they are both an “boon like effect” that you cant have ripped off and they tend to have a cc effect on-top of that with icd per person and not per effect.

This is quite unique to believe that burning, chill, vulnerability or projectile reflection is a “cc effect”.

Yes they are all types of cc well burning not really a full cc is more of a cover and you seemly leaved off being stunned from shocking aura. So… yes auras are a type of buff/cc effect that tempest gets a lot of more then d/d ele.

Chill is a Soft-CC and Stun is a Hard-CC. The others aren’t CC at all.
Regardless, they rely entirely on your opponent hitting you; which isn’t great. The only really good Auras are Frost(10% damage reduction) and Shocking(Stun) and the latter is the only one the Tempest can’t easily share.

2 maybe 3 if you go into air. D/d Aura tempest should give very good pt support with auras.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoYncMAFOgdOAWYCcYClSAz9s2WnrEXgKQAA-TFCXABRu/gAKDeQJIAKNgSLgDKxCS9HR0BAA-w

Something like this though i am not sure what to put in the 3ed line. If blinding ash did not have its icd per burn effect and was per person i would say fire but that not the way it works so maybe air for one more shocking aura or cdr.

Added note aoe auras seem to double effect with the GM water i like to know if they also double heal.

Jski.6180:

draxynnic.3719:

The actual problem with fire tornado getting a fire field might be because it’s already a whirl finisher, and thus it might finish with itself…

…mind you, while that may be the reasoning, it would also probably be quite a bit cooler than just upping the damage.

Nado works that way so its not comply odd or even really see as an op effect. But hay take away whirl finisher ele getting an movable fire field is much better. That is if you give water overload an water field air overload an lighting field not sure what to do about earth.

Pulsing blast finisher? :P

Seriously, though, it has a functionality that grants protection to allies, although I think it requires moving over the ally. If it granted protection to all allies within range, that’d be a big support effect without needing to be a field.

draxynnic.3719:

Jski.6180:

draxynnic.3719:

The actual problem with fire tornado getting a fire field might be because it’s already a whirl finisher, and thus it might finish with itself…

…mind you, while that may be the reasoning, it would also probably be quite a bit cooler than just upping the damage.

Nado works that way so its not comply odd or even really see as an op effect. But hay take away whirl finisher ele getting an movable fire field is much better. That is if you give water overload an water field air overload an lighting field not sure what to do about earth.

Pulsing blast finisher? :P

Seriously, though, it has a functionality that grants protection to allies, although I think it requires moving over the ally. If it granted protection to all allies within range, that’d be a big support effect without needing to be a field.

Pulsing blast finisher is a good ideal.

So that the ideal add a field to each overload (i think standardizing time of channeling will make this work better so say 4-3 sec for all or 4-3 pulses for there effects) but earth that become a pulsing blast finisher.

I think that would go a long way to fixing tempest as an elite spec and fill a support roll.

Pulsing blast finisher on Overload Earth sounds awesome. It would definitely encourage team play, and the fact that you have to wait to overload means you can’t abuse your own combo fields with it.

The funny thing I think people might have the problem which showed what Tempest was lacking, was in the live stream for tempest where he got downed buy the Syvire, I think. Funny enough I fought them both with a mainhand only just 2 see how easy it was.

Jski.6180:

Pulsing blast finisher is a good ideal.

So that the ideal add a field to each overload (i think standardizing time of channeling will make this work better so say 4-3 sec for all or 4-3 pulses for there effects) but earth that become a pulsing blast finisher.

I think that would go a long way to fixing tempest as an elite spec and fill a support roll.

Very good idea too.
Not enough to fix tempest ofc (still need trait rework and maybe slight buff to WH)

Glad that pro-tempest and con-tempest manage to find good ideas together

Mattmatt.4962:

Jski.6180:

Pulsing blast finisher is a good ideal.

So that the ideal add a field to each overload (i think standardizing time of channeling will make this work better so say 4-3 sec for all or 4-3 pulses for there effects) but earth that become a pulsing blast finisher.

I think that would go a long way to fixing tempest as an elite spec and fill a support roll.

Very good idea too.
Not enough to fix tempest ofc (still need trait rework and maybe slight buff to WH)

Glad that pro-tempest and con-tempest manage to find good ideas together

I don’t think there are people for or against tempest. I think we just want it to be something that is worth using in all game modes. The one point of total agreement is Rebound: Everyone agrees that it is the worse elite ever, doesnt work well, and it doesn’t fit the tempest theme.

Mattmatt.4962:

Jski.6180:

Pulsing blast finisher is a good ideal.

So that the ideal add a field to each overload (i think standardizing time of channeling will make this work better so say 4-3 sec for all or 4-3 pulses for there effects) but earth that become a pulsing blast finisher.

I think that would go a long way to fixing tempest as an elite spec and fill a support roll.

Very good idea too.
Not enough to fix tempest ofc (still need trait rework and maybe slight buff to WH)

Glad that pro-tempest and con-tempest manage to find good ideas together

we need to either get away from support. or make the support so much better then base ele.

Not better, this would means tempest > ele in every way
It must be a good melee wvw support. “niche” role, but at least it opens new role (currently you can’t play melee in wvw (you barely could when rock solid was a viable trait so now ….)) without destroying current role

I don’t understand why we can’t get away from support and get better melee support with in the spec. Look at the traits that the other specializations have gotten, they all have choices for different roles. Hell look at the new berserker traits, three lines within the traitline for three different yet complementary roles. Compare that to tempest’s 9 support, but not too much support, traits and i wonder why it can’t have multiple roles too.

Mattmatt.4962:

Not better, this would means tempest > ele in every way
It must be a good melee wvw support. “niche” role, but at least it opens new role (currently you can’t play melee in wvw (you barely could when rock solid was a viable trait so now ….)) without destroying current role

That is the thing. if the tempest support is “Just as good” then that is just as bad because what is the point of the tempest.

Argol, you can be good melee-wvw support and beeing rather bad support in other game mode.

Explanation:
In pve you want support that dps a lot
In pvp you want support that can win 1V1 or bunker point
In wvw you want support that can either cc or dps (but the dps needed is different, you’re not fighting kittening kittened mob that don’t moove), this support includes stability whereas the 2others don’t REQUIRE it (it’s good to have it, but not mandatory)

@Thetwothousand,
you shouldn’t compare to berserk’s trait, even the weakest or their trait is stronger than the strongest of tempest XD
And their strongest worth a full trait line from any other class …. and you can stack them cause they’re not all in the same tier

Alright, devs. I got a cool idea for tempest and overloads that might help flesh out its niche. Feel free to do your own thing but hopefully some sparks of inspiration will be had. I also think some of the idea may be regulated to traits. Anyway, here goes. . .

Changes/Fixes

• A new important mechanic, “Elemental Charge”, functions similar to adrenaline for warriors. The charge bar builds slowly while in battle and more quickly when you cast spells. There are only 2 ways to deplete the charge bar and one of those ways is swapping attunement. Swapping attunements resets your charge bar to 0.
• Overloads can be cast the instant you swap into an attunement. No wait time necessary. Also you can swap attunements while you cast overloads. These aspects are very important!
• Break Bar! I’m not 100% informed on how they work. . . That being said, Earth overload no longer gets a break bar by default. Once you start casting an overload, your charge bar converts to a break bar. The higher your charge, the better the break bar will cover you. This is the second way to deplete your charge bar. If your break bar defends you from any CC, once you are either interrupted or complete the cast, your charge bar is reduced to 0. If no CC is prevented by your break bar, it is reverted back to its equivalent amount of charge.

Additions

• Give a little incentive to fill the charge bar by giving slight bonuses while it’s full:
  - fire charged = take less damage from burning foes
  - water charged = gain a % damage bonus every time you remove a condition, duration of 10sec, stacks X number of times.
  - air charged = improve casting speed when fully charged.
  - earth charged = apply 2 stacks of bleed on your attacks.
• Breaking a full break bar results in the casting of another spell.
  - smoke break = blind and knock back nearby foes.
  - ice break = nearby foes are frozen in a block of ice.
  - wind break = foes in a wider range are pulled and stunned.
  - magnet break = remove all boons from nearby foes, you gain retaliation, protection and regeneration.
• completing an overload with a full bar might provide bonuses to that attunements spells. Your call.
• Rebound! Buff this shout to be instant cast, reduces the recharge of all skills used for the next 5 sec, instantly recharge all attunements and allows you to make an attunement swap while retaining your charge bar.

I like this idea because it allows players to continue to dance attunements effectively while incorporating overloads, give players an option to cover the cast of overloads and can help promote attunement camping if desired. It makes the time to swap attunement a bigger choice. As for changes to the overload effects and traits, maybe another time.

Bear in mind that overload must not strenghten ele!
Expecting overload buffing ele must be disepointing.
If you charge overload and have it ready to fire within your rotation, it will strengthen eles and is a no go. It is desigend to disrup your rotation for a singe lage discarge and this is well balancable by numbers not to break ele as OP.
Take overload as it is. A flashy option to have fun ocasionaly. Somtimes balance doesn´t taste well.

Traits have to be reworked to offer the option replacing current spec lines. There is the problem. And rebound is just crap.

Wolfric.9380:

Bear in mind that overload must not strenghten ele!
Expecting overload buffing ele must be disepointing…

Take overload as it is. A flashy option to have fun ocasionaly. Somtimes balance doesn´t taste well.

Every other professions got a new mechanic that can make them stronger, specially Berserker, Chronomancer, Reaper all have devastating potential.

Ele is not more op at the moment than shatter/condi mesmer, condi engi or burn guardian, it’s a complete misunderstanding of the class strength and weakness that lead to people saying that ele was op. I don’t see why it’s elite profession would have to be support, specially because that is where it already shines.

If overloads are to function on the current concept then they should be like elemental pulsing shields that do not prevent you from doing other things.

And yes Rebound is really really bad.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

The concepts behind overloading an element were pretty well received

This is completely untrue, and if you actually believe this its a good indication of the direction the Ele is heading.

Overload in its current state (melee channel on extremely squishy character with no inherent defense) is an incredibly terrible idea.

It does nothing but hamper the Ele in any weapon set, nor provide any “tools” that the Ele doesn’t already possess.

Between Overloads and Rebound its pretty apparent that you guys don’t understand how the Ele functions at its most basic level. And you created it!

Kaleban.9834:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

The concepts behind overloading an element were pretty well received

This is completely untrue, and if you actually believe this its a good indication of the direction the Ele is heading.

Overload in its current state (melee channel on extremely squishy character with no inherent defense) is an incredibly terrible idea.

It does nothing but hamper the Ele in any weapon set, nor provide any “tools” that the Ele doesn’t already possess.

Between Overloads and Rebound its pretty apparent that you guys don’t understand how the Ele functions at its most basic level. And you created it!

It doesn’t have to be untrue just because you don’t agree with it. If you know how to do it better, then give some feedback. Posts like this are going nowhere and are just very tiring.

Kaleban.9834:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

The concepts behind overloading an element were pretty well received

This is completely untrue, and if you actually believe this its a good indication of the direction the Ele is heading.

Overload in its current state (melee channel on extremely squishy character with no inherent defense) is an incredibly terrible idea.

It does nothing but hamper the Ele in any weapon set, nor provide any “tools” that the Ele doesn’t already possess.

Between Overloads and Rebound its pretty apparent that you guys don’t understand how the Ele functions at its most basic level. And you created it!

Am I the only person that thinks this argument (Overloads as a concept not being well-received and don’t provide Eles with any new tools) is completely ridiculous? Overload doesn’t do anything you couldn’t already do… except now you can use an Overload to do those things AND still do those things later when you need them… or swap those things out for different tools since you can now use an Overload to accomplish the same thing…

If you have a Focus offhand, you’re missing out on a cleanse. Oh hey, Overload Water’s got a cleanse! Now I feel a little better using Focus. If you run Staff, you’re sacrificing Burning and Might stacking options. Oh hey, Overload Fire’s got me covered! Overload Air? Okay, doesn’t really bring much to the table – it’s nice if you want more Vulnerability but not so much that you would equip Glyph of Storms, and if nothing else, it’s a new Lightning Field. Overload Earth? Breakbar is new, and it gives us an area immobilize without having to trait for it.

Obviously, there are combinations that allow you to do much better than what Overloads provide individually, but as a whole they do provide a bit more versatility, even if they don’t provide a clearly defined new role.

At any rate, I don’t think anyone is arguing against the CONCEPT of Overloads – just the current IMPLEMENTATION / FORM.

So to me, the problems we should be focusing on are what can be done to implement this new versatility better, and if Overloads are intended to provide much more of a clearly defined new role, how they can be changed to achieve that. I am inclined to agree that they don’t really stand out nearly as much as other Elite Specialization mechanics though.

Personally, I think the answer is to give each Overload three “levels.” The longer you stay in an attunement, the higher level the Overload. The higher level the overload, the longer the channel and attunement cooldown, but also the more potent and wider the range of effect. This both rewards staying in an attunement longer and gives the Tempest a more clear area-denial/support role, as well as gives players the freedom to choose their own risk/reward level.

I honestly think the only way that overloads can work is with a new main hand weapon that has usable autoattacks in water and earth.

Right now, in order to use an overload you have to stay in an attunement for a minimum of 5 seconds, but there is no weapon that allows you to do this in earth or water in a productive manner.

The Great Al.2546:

I honestly think the only way that overloads can work is with a new main hand weapon that has usable autoattacks in water and earth.

Right now, in order to use an overload you have to stay in an attunement for a minimum of 5 seconds, but there is no weapon that allows you to do this in earth or water in a productive manner.

That’s a good point. Conjured Weapons can help with that problem, but it’s not exactly a solution. Plus Conjures come with their own set of problems.

Kaleban.9834:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

The concepts behind overloading an element were pretty well received

This is completely untrue, and if you actually believe this its a good indication of the direction the Ele is heading.

Overload in its current state (melee channel on extremely squishy character with no inherent defense) is an incredibly terrible idea.

It does nothing but hamper the Ele in any weapon set, nor provide any “tools” that the Ele doesn’t already possess.

Between Overloads and Rebound its pretty apparent that you guys don’t understand how the Ele functions at its most basic level. And you created it!

It’s not untrue. A lot of players really did and do feel the concept of overloads is interesting. That concept being casting a larger, stronger attunement spell for a cost. Now what you’re pinning the hate on is the numbers and circumstances of the spells they introduced. This is what people are bringing up issue with, not the concept of overloads themselves.

OtakuDFifty.2965:

Am I the only person that thinks this argument (Overloads as a concept not being well-received and don’t provide Eles with any new tools) is completely ridiculous? Overload doesn’t do anything you couldn’t already do… except now you can use an Overload to do those things AND still do those things later when you need them… or swap those things out for different tools since you can now use an Overload to accomplish the same thing…

My hope is more people will attempt to view the spec like this and that changes will make this more effective, worthwhile and feel different from the standard spec. I think part of the issue is many seem to be unwilling to branch out or perhaps they aren’t unwilling but seem to overemphasize choices or lack thereof. I mean, yeah we get it that cantrips are super useful and effective but don’t pretend that you’re forced to take mostly cantrips to function.

OtakuDFifty.2965:

Personally, I think the answer is to give each Overload three “levels.” The longer you stay in an attunement, the higher level the Overload. The higher level the overload, the longer the channel and attunement cooldown, but also the more potent and wider the range of effect. This both rewards staying in an attunement longer and gives the Tempest a more clear area-denial/support role, as well as gives players the freedom to choose their own risk/reward level.

I agree, and wrote up some possible ideas to give the overloads levels. I mean, there are just so many ways to do this to make it more useful and gamable which is why I’m so excited about Tempest’s potential. Like for mutli level power overloads, you can just break up the effect into 3 portions that you’ll be granted upon casting: 1.) the channel effect, so start the skill and you start getting effects that continue to stack for the duration of the cast, obviously getting stronger since it’s stacking, 2.) the current overload effect, so as long as you get to a certain point in the middle of the cast, you’ll get the overload effect, 3.) some kind of buff upon completing the effect.

This is more of a rudimentary version of your idea that would require less animation work but just making the effects bigger and more effective could very well be a possibility instead and they’d all be interesting solutions.

Overloads would also work if they gave you a new set of skills to use when overloading.

But then Anet would have to design 20 new skills…

Xillllix.3485:

Overloads would also work if they gave you a new set of skills to use when overloading.

But then Anet would have to design 20 new skills…

So Ele is never getting a new 2-handed weapon then?

Malchior.5732:

Xillllix.3485:

Overloads would also work if they gave you a new set of skills to use when overloading.

But then Anet would have to design 20 new skills…

So Ele is never getting a new 2-handed weapon then?

They clearly couldn’t come up with 12 skills (swd) so they went with warhorn… No way were getting a 2 hander

So Ele is never getting a new 2-handed weapon then?

If they keep coming out with one weapon per release, and one for each class, then I doubt Eles will every get a two-hander, but maybe if they bumped it up to two weapons for most classes, or if they skipped Eles entirely for one release, they could give them a two-hander. Remember that an Ele two-hander is worth FOUR two-handers from any other class. Even an offhand weapon is worth a two-hander and a main hand weapon for anyone else in terms of design and function. That’s what makes updating the Ele so tricky (and to a lesser extent, the Thieves, who offer less growth from one weapon, but there’s an slightly exponential component to it).

A 600 range mainhand weapon would fit and be enough.

Amount of skills will never bother me. I’m fine with warhorn, heck I’m fine with shouts! What really needs to be adjusted to be worthy are: 1st → mechanics skills, 2nd → traits.

I just can’t stress enough how much mechanics play a role in renewing the 3-year-old most used class in the game. (yes, it beats warrior)

For me it has to do with the “fun factor” it will bring to the class. The new thief profession relies on dodging and active gameplay therefore it will be amazing to play no matter what the numbers are.

Tempest requires you to camp in attunements, prevent you from using skills and even dodging when using overloads, basically is unrewarding to the people who master their attunement rotations.

This is what needs to be fixed first and foremost, not numbers, but the way Tempest is in anti-synergy with attunement swapping. It should be the complete opposite, Tempest should make your attunements recharge faster and reward fast playing. Overloading should permit you to do more, not less.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

The concepts behind overloading an element were pretty well received, however you called out that the time cost of overloading compared to the final rewards were too unbalanced.

The first part of the sentence must be a joke, it was very bad received. It doesn’t fit elementals at all. Increasing the numbers is not close to enough, it needs to be redesigned: remove the requirement to channel it!!!!!! + reduce the availability CD from 5 sec to 3 sec.

Redesign the Elite!!!!!!! (make it e.g. on a very low CD, so that it makes at least sense)

Overall I am very disappointed. I didn’t expect much, but the elementalist specialization is worser than everything I could imagine.

However warhorn was fine. Traits were ridiculous.

Laodike.8640:

However warhorn was fine. Traits were ridiculous.

The traits are all passive traits besides perhaps the stun break. This is the first of the problems I find with them. They are also all defensive, therefore variety is eliminated; there is just no offensive tempest build possible, second problem. Third problem: minor traits should be combined. Why have a trait that gives swiftness on overload and another that gives protection? Makes no sense, both are passive boons applied under the same circumstances. The only good trait is the one that negates condition, because it seems at this point the dev recognized that someone overloading was toasted.

At the risk of repeating myself and what others have said again and again:

The passivity problems goes into the overload mechanic. Having to camp an attunement is a complete deal-breaker. Our skill cooldowns are long because we are supposed to change attunements quickly. I calculated that I almost never stay in an attunement more than 2.5 seconds, the time it takes to cast 2-3 skills. This is optimal, since after 4 attunements I arrive at 10 seconds and can restart the rotation. But even if you could start overloading immediately after attuning, I’m still sure it would not be worth the risk : losing your cc, dodges, rotation boons, most damage and being punished if interrupted really is an disproportionate trade-off.

Warhorn: Give us weapon swap and then perhaps people will use it. Otherwise why put yourself at melee range on a squishy class to give boons to other players with better elite professions?

Elite: Is passive (doesn’t affect the gameplay in noticeable ways).

Guardian players recieved 2 additional posts from you Karl, with some insights of what additional changes you guys have in mind for the Dragonhunter specialization. I hope you don’t mind me asking, what other changes do you have in mind after all the feedback you recived from the original post in this thread? What’s your stance on the current iteration of the Tempest? Any other changes planned besides these? Any insights for us ele players?

Thanks.

merge baseline, add speed as mesmer got. Make Rebound a good instant aura shout that cleanses all condies an distributes light aura. Not hard to do, not to powerful and would greatly help with builds. This is the easiest to mak something …. Numbers alone won´t be enough to make tempest feel good.

Another idea would be make speedy conduit a base 33% not swiftness boon.
This would be unique. No constant klicking for swiftness renewal. Tempest is speedy like a wind…
I think not OP but giving a kick for taking tempest and again more build options.
This alone would make me try tempest :-). (still wishing a good elite ^^)

Laodike.8640:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

The concepts behind overloading an element were pretty well received, however you called out that the time cost of overloading compared to the final rewards were too unbalanced.

The first part of the sentence must be a joke, it was very bad received. It doesn’t fit elementals at all. Increasing the numbers is not close to enough, it needs to be redesigned: remove the requirement to channel it!!!!!! + reduce the availability CD from 5 sec to 3 sec.

Redesign the Elite!!!!!!! (make it e.g. on a very low CD, so that it makes at least sense)

Overall I am very disappointed. I didn’t expect much, but the elementalist specialization is worser than everything I could imagine.

However warhorn was fine. Traits were ridiculous.

The warhorn is ok on it’s own, but not with this specialization. What we really needed was a weapon that would allow us to comfortably stay in an attunement for longer periods of time (i.e. short cooldown spells and usable AA’s), not another offhand with long cooldowns.

I am going to see what they do to overloads execution, and damage increases simply isn’t going to buy me (and many of existing eles). I am sorry, devs, too punishing and trait line is too lacking. :/

I play an elementalist quite a lot and when the beta was available to play – I was floored with disappointment and bored out of my mind. I was expecting to be floored with each new weapon available at the time for the master traits but “seriously” – What a piece of sh**. I am utterly disgusted by the traits and what the off hand offered. On a normal day I play Elementalist to heal (water Attunement) in full healing armor W.v.W and Condi / Zerk PvE so I did the same in the beta but played both roles for more than an hour before swapping to my other profession in the beta. I felt the warhorn lacked that Hmph to it, it felt just as useless as the ranger warhorn or warrior off hand warhorn. I found it just pointless to overload the attunement unless you were asking to get impaled and the duration on the overloads is garbage as well as the end result on every overload attunement. The warhorn skills were slow, under powered, lacking of beauty and did not go well with the traits. I hope this upcoming beta to be surprised and everyones concern was addressed because the game is dead as it is and you will only continue to lose players. Don’t think just because the expansion is releasing so / date and year that it will revive your game and if it does all sudden spikes die down and the second fall is the hardest.

I am already bored as it is while playing – no motive, no reason to play, it is lacking something or perhaps nothing. Maybe it lost the shine. Only reason people come back to play is because of the free to play option. Heck I paid for the HoT expac and I regret it already. I almost deleted the game off my computer just last night.

The Great Al.2546:

Laodike.8640:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

The concepts behind overloading an element were pretty well received, however you called out that the time cost of overloading compared to the final rewards were too unbalanced.

The first part of the sentence must be a joke, it was very bad received. It doesn’t fit elementals at all. Increasing the numbers is not close to enough, it needs to be redesigned: remove the requirement to channel it!!!!!! + reduce the availability CD from 5 sec to 3 sec.

Redesign the Elite!!!!!!! (make it e.g. on a very low CD, so that it makes at least sense)

Overall I am very disappointed. I didn’t expect much, but the elementalist specialization is worser than everything I could imagine.

However warhorn was fine. Traits were ridiculous.

The warhorn is ok on it’s own, but not with this specialization. What we really needed was a weapon that would allow us to comfortably stay in an attunement for longer periods of time (i.e. short cooldown spells and usable AA’s), not another offhand with long cooldowns.

You are exactly right my friend – Elementalist is Life. I seriously want to play elementalist without the need to swap attunement to get a good 10k crit and constant and damage. It takes away from the fun and becomes tedious with the long cool down on attune swap, and the new worhorn makes it worse by having decade long cooldown

An idea to conceptualize the traitlines under an altered scale with the 3 Tempest core aspects in mind: “Stormcaller”, “Eye of the Storm” and “Channeler”. To the traits…

MINOR
- Singularity = no change. Same deal, you get access to warhorn, overloads, shouts, etc.
- Speedy Conduit = Add Vigor to this effect.
- Hardy Conduit = Same.

Storm Caller
The “Stormcaller” line is meant to describe the weapon that put out the flames to support the fight in Ascalon. It’s the “support” aspect, not so much the calling of storms.
[Minor] Unstable Conduit = [Added to] Grants an aura at the beginning of an overload and when you swap attunements (15sec ICD) based on your attunement.
[Major] Elemental Bastion = Same.
[Grand Master] Masterful Aura = [NEW] Elemental auras you apply have additional effects. Fire aura reduces damage you receive from the burning condition and decreases physical damage you receive from burning foes; Frost aura converts chill to regeneration and increases the damage you do to chilled foes; Shocking Aura decreases duration of stun and daze and grants quickness upon being CC’ed; Magnetic Aura blocks an attack upon applying. ((All subject to various ICD not noted))

Eye of the Storm
This is the brawler spec meant to describe the tempest being in the thick of melee. This is a sustain type of set aimed more to support yourself.

[Minor] Gale Song = [Added to] Combining Gale Song and Tempestuous Aria. Cast Eye of the storm when CC’ed. Your shouts apply might to allies and weakness to foes.
[Major] Latent Stamina = [Added to] Combining an altered version of Latent Stamina and Earthen Proxy. Applying Vigor restores endurance. While Vigor is active on you, Protection duration is increased by 25%. Damage is reduced further while under the effect of protection.
[Grandmaster] Echoed Melodies = [NEW] Breaking stuns applies retaliation to and around the target (this includes stuns you break on yourself or stuns you break from allies). Hardy and Speedy Conduit occurs again after completing a channeled spell. If making ally stunbreak baseline for warhorn is too strong, roll it into this trait.

Channeler
This is technically the offensive aspect of the spec as it’s aimed toward pressuring and punishing foes via channeling/being interrupted from channeling as well as give you a boost from channeling. The traits include all channeled skills (not just overloads) unless specified. There are a lot of ideas I had for this but I’ll just put up the least insane ones I can think of…

[Minor] Storm’s Crescendo = [NEW] Gain a small bonus to damage and conditions for 7seconds for every second you channel (Max of +5 bonus) in combat. Being interrupted by CC cuts the recast cooldown by 50% and the recast cooldown of Overloads by 66%.
[Major] Tempestuous Octave = [NEW] Reflect CC effects back to their caster if they interrupt you and reflect CC effects to all foes around you if they interrupt an Overload. Gain a damage bonus for each foe you affect with control effects (max of +5 bonus).
[Grand Master] Lucid Singularity = [Added to] Gain massive resistance to movement impeding conditions while channeling, remove such conditions when you begin an Overload. Gain invincibility for 3sec if you’re channeling at a certain health threshold (60sec ICD)

guys, i dont like to stomp on peoples suggestions, especially since there have been so many great ones id love to see implemented at some point on the ele in the future. we have so few days left until launch, we believe that this class needs all new mechanics, i dont believe thats going to happen.

the thing is i dont in my right mind believe there is enough time for the devs to re-create the entire spec or design a new mechanic. i think we should focus on what we have and offer some ideas the devs can use with all of the in-game assets we have available now.

i think the idea of support is good for whats coming in the future, id like to believe that we can use the overloads if they were fixed and acted like existing skills we have now.

I WILL SAY THAT OUR ELITE NEEDS TO BE FULLY REWORKED TO GIVE US SOMETHING USABLE AND NOT COMPLETE GARBAGE.

let us take a moment to reflect on what good support can be, let us think of what we could do and become. we can still be a grab bag of greatness, along side DPS and control, we do need mobility, we need power, and we need support. we dont need more aura sharing because it is kinda crappy (if not very crappy).

so how about we brainstorm on what we were given and find a way to help the devs take the design they have now as a template, and work with them to adjust what they have now and turn it into something special. Bigger numbers are not the answer, but a more refined concept is.

Leo G.4501:

An idea to conceptualize the traitlines under an altered scale with the 3 Tempest core aspects in mind: “Stormcaller”, “Eye of the Storm” and “Channeler”. To the traits…

MINOR
- Singularity = no change. Same deal, you get access to warhorn, overloads, shouts, etc.
- Speedy Conduit = Add Vigor to this effect.
- Hardy Conduit = Same.

Storm Caller
The “Stormcaller” line is meant to describe the weapon that put out the flames to support the fight in Ascalon. It’s the “support” aspect, not so much the calling of storms.
[Minor] Unstable Conduit = [Added to] Grants an aura at the beginning of an overload and when you swap attunements (15sec ICD) based on your attunement.
[Major] Elemental Bastion = Same.
[Grand Master] Masterful Aura = [NEW] Elemental auras you apply have additional effects. Fire aura reduces damage you receive from the burning condition and decreases physical damage you receive from burning foes; Frost aura converts chill to regeneration and increases the damage you do to chilled foes; Shocking Aura decreases duration of stun and daze and grants quickness upon being CC’ed; Magnetic Aura blocks an attack upon applying. ((All subject to various ICD not noted))

Eye of the Storm
This is the brawler spec meant to describe the tempest being in the thick of melee. This is a sustain type of set aimed more to support yourself.

[Minor] Gale Song = [Added to] Combining Gale Song and Tempestuous Aria. Cast Eye of the storm when CC’ed. Your shouts apply might to allies and weakness to foes.
[Major] Latent Stamina = [Added to] Combining an altered version of Latent Stamina and Earthen Proxy. Applying Vigor restores endurance. While Vigor is active on you, Protection duration is increased by 25%. Damage is reduced further while under the effect of protection.
[Grandmaster] Echoed Melodies = [NEW] Breaking stuns applies retaliation to and around the target (this includes stuns you break on yourself or stuns you break from allies). Hardy and Speedy Conduit occurs again after completing a channeled spell. If making ally stunbreak baseline for warhorn is too strong, roll it into this trait.

Channeler
This is technically the offensive aspect of the spec as it’s aimed toward pressuring and punishing foes via channeling/being interrupted from channeling as well as give you a boost from channeling. The traits include all channeled skills (not just overloads) unless specified. There are a lot of ideas I had for this but I’ll just put up the least insane ones I can think of…

[Minor] Storm’s Crescendo = [NEW] Gain a small bonus to damage and conditions for 7seconds for every second you channel (Max of +5 bonus) in combat. Being interrupted by CC cuts the recast cooldown by 50% and the recast cooldown of Overloads by 66%.
[Major] Tempestuous Octave = [NEW] Reflect CC effects back to their caster if they interrupt you and reflect CC effects to all foes around you if they interrupt an Overload. Gain a damage bonus for each foe you affect with control effects (max of +5 bonus).
[Grand Master] Lucid Singularity = [Added to] Gain massive resistance to movement impeding conditions while channeling, remove such conditions when you begin an Overload. Gain invincibility for 3sec if you’re channeling at a certain health threshold (60sec ICD)

These are solid ideas they could improve upon… if they’re keeping the way they are. Though, still, they need to give us something more particular that defines the spec.