Guild Wars 2

People PLEASE calm down, if the Ele dev is on vacations, injured, ill or whatever and the rest of the team cant replace him (because they have tons of work in other areas) its not the kitten end of the world!!!!!

Irenio has already explained that those “fixes” are just early patches and the real changes will come later.

I understand that those fixes wont help with the problems on some areas (like overloads in PvP with the interrupts), but they can still be used in PvE. And we can still test if those number changes make the class feel at least a little better.

Jski.6180:

Any way i have a strong feeling if you did not like say overload on tempest then odds are your never going to like this elite spec and that is ok. Keep on with ele its still a good well rounded class. Ele lose nothing for you not liking tempest.

Have you ever played TA Aetherpath? If we should expect a new content similar to that path, good luck getting a single overload cast there.

Morti.2430:

- Overloads should be instant casts with a powerfull effect and not this 5 sec casttime s!t
- why this f!king 5 seconds till u can activate an overload ?
- no shout cd reduce trait , why ?
- more aurasupport and u have a new play style
- 50 % of warhornskills r s*!t, bugged, to long cd, or just useless

Even when trained i do not think you can keep off of all atuments for shorter then 5 sec. Or at least to get all the ability off in a well timed way shorter then 5 sec.

I think the ideal is that elite spec utility are more 2ed type so no cdr for any new utility at all for all classes.

Aura support (non boon auras just pure aura) is getting a big boots with tempest i think once some of the number mainly healing effect on aura gaining we may see a d/d tempest become the best support in wvw.

Well ya they are going to be buged its new and new effects should be mostly fixed by the time it comes out in full.

Naurgalen.2374:

People PLEASE calm down, if the Ele dev is on vacations, injured, ill or whatever and the rest of the team cant replace him (because they have tons of work in other areas) its not the kitten end of the world!!!!!

And that’s why it’s much better when everyone works on all the classes, would also probably lead to a more balanced meta.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Jski.6180:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Killyox.3950:

Going to quote this because apparently people are incapable of reading more than 1 page of thread.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Hey everyone.

Not all feedback could be addressed this iteration in fair part due to time constraints on key members of our design team. That does not mean we are dismissing your feedback or that all the issues you’ve raised up to this point will go unchanged before expansion release.

This is a small set of changes from the first beta weekend event; we will continue to iterate on the specialization skills and mechanics and shall be listening for your constructive feedback.

We will be reviewing the Tempest traits along with casttimes vs. effects on overloads among several other aspects of the elite specialization.

That’s really funny… I mean, especially after reading the Rev, Reaper, and Chrono BWE feedback Dev notes. They must feel that the Tempest is in a good place trait and utility wise therefore are ignoring our feed back. If they agreed with us they would act on it like the did for the Rev, Reaper, and Chrono.

Bottomline is there is time for it. If they think there isn’t time that means that they think they aren’t going to make their internal deadline, thus they need to make the time either by longer hours or weekends. It’s a job for them. If I’m late on a project and the deadline is coming up, guess what? Yup, I put in longer hours to make sure everything is done on time. Yes, that means I make time.

Dose not make it right to make others work the same hours as you do (though this is getting way off-topic). Its like the Amazon thing yes some ppl are marry to there work and these ppl tend to get payed very well for there time but then these same ppl tend to feel every one should work as they do leading them to push ppl who may simply want a job to make money to live and have a life out side of work.

Any way i have a strong feeling if you did not like say overload on tempest then odds are your never going to like this elite spec and that is ok. Keep on with ele its still a good well rounded class. Ele lose nothing for you not liking tempest.

Please, leave your feelings at the door. It’s a job. I’ve worked jobs where I’m gone half the year. Military personnel leave for much longer periods working their jobs. So, please, leave your strong feelings at the door. The Devs, who have a very safe job and who go home every night to their families, can put in a some extra hours to get the job done THAT THEY ARE PAID TO DO… And it’s not like they won’t be compensated for those extra hours.

If you leave your feeling at the door why cant you leave your job as you come out of the door. It just seems its all lost and no gain or all work when you told to and no “life.” The very ideal of mmorpg IS counter to the ideal of living to work. Just being payed dose not mean they own the person.
It will be done / talked about when its ready.

Calm down guys. I am also disappointed with the changes, but I also want to remind people that we still have a few more BWEs coming up.

Personally, I would like the following changes:

1. switching attunements/dodging doesn’t cancel Overload.
2. have a trait to give stability on Overload
3. Rebound to be rework into Reduce the cool down of all skills-on-cooldown by 25%. Rebound should be a shout.
4. traits for reduce shout cool down

Jski.6180:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Jski.6180:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Killyox.3950:

Going to quote this because apparently people are incapable of reading more than 1 page of thread.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Hey everyone.

Not all feedback could be addressed this iteration in fair part due to time constraints on key members of our design team. That does not mean we are dismissing your feedback or that all the issues you’ve raised up to this point will go unchanged before expansion release.

This is a small set of changes from the first beta weekend event; we will continue to iterate on the specialization skills and mechanics and shall be listening for your constructive feedback.

We will be reviewing the Tempest traits along with casttimes vs. effects on overloads among several other aspects of the elite specialization.

That’s really funny… I mean, especially after reading the Rev, Reaper, and Chrono BWE feedback Dev notes. They must feel that the Tempest is in a good place trait and utility wise therefore are ignoring our feed back. If they agreed with us they would act on it like the did for the Rev, Reaper, and Chrono.

Bottomline is there is time for it. If they think there isn’t time that means that they think they aren’t going to make their internal deadline, thus they need to make the time either by longer hours or weekends. It’s a job for them. If I’m late on a project and the deadline is coming up, guess what? Yup, I put in longer hours to make sure everything is done on time. Yes, that means I make time.

Dose not make it right to make others work the same hours as you do (though this is getting way off-topic). Its like the Amazon thing yes some ppl are marry to there work and these ppl tend to get payed very well for there time but then these same ppl tend to feel every one should work as they do leading them to push ppl who may simply want a job to make money to live and have a life out side of work.

Any way i have a strong feeling if you did not like say overload on tempest then odds are your never going to like this elite spec and that is ok. Keep on with ele its still a good well rounded class. Ele lose nothing for you not liking tempest.

Please, leave your feelings at the door. It’s a job. I’ve worked jobs where I’m gone half the year. Military personnel leave for much longer periods working their jobs. So, please, leave your strong feelings at the door. The Devs, who have a very safe job and who go home every night to their families, can put in a some extra hours to get the job done THAT THEY ARE PAID TO DO… And it’s not like they won’t be compensated for those extra hours.

If you leave your feeling at the door why cant you leave your job as you come out of the door. It just seems its all lost and no gain or all work when you told to and no “life.” The very ideal of mmorpg IS counter to the ideal of living to work. Just being payed dose not mean they own the person.
It will be done / talked about when its ready.

Can’t talk to you as you’re all emotion and no logic. Good day, sir.

For me it’s a value issue. For a middle of the road 25 bucks expansion I would be able to tell my self that “Ok I won’t use the new elite profession for my main class, but at least the expansion is cheap”. Problem is the expansion is the price of the full game so my expectations are really high. For that price I expect quality for every class since it’s only 1 new trait line and weapon, and at least half the content the current game has.

So when I see something that look rushed like Tempest, like many others who have paid already to be beta testers, well I will post my criticism [already posted a huge list for most skills and traits, took me at least 1 hour to write]. That’s what Anet wanted from the beta testers anyway.

Some people are more emotional than others, some less polite, it’s the nature of things. But everyone should be allowed to say what they want from their testing experience without being called haters or negative. We just want the best for the class, that’s all. Some skills like Rebound need a complete rework because they will tarnish the quality of this game if left as they are.

The majority of game population doesn’t participate in forum discussions because they simply don’t care about that. The same as in democracy, usually about 50% of people vote, rest simply don’t care.

That doesn’t mean they don’t matter though. I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding here. In a democracy, “votes” are how politicians get “paid.” People who don’t vote, aren’t “paying” the politicians, and thus don’t matter. In a game, people saying things on a web forum don’t give the devs anything, they get paid by people buying things in the gem store. If a person says nothing on the forums, but buys things in the gem store when they are happy, then that person matters more than someone who complains on the forums but buys less. So no, forum complaints do not matter more than those who do not, they are just one source of data for ANet to weigh when trying to determine overall player interest.

You won’t use overloads in pvp because they take on avg. 4+ seconds. Do you use Churning Earth in any of the game modes at all? It takes only 3,25s to cast.

Have you actually tried Overloads? That take zero time to cast, because they are channeled abilities. The primary effect is during the channel, not when the channel ends. You can also move freely while using them, which is not true of Churning Earth. With CE people are unbothered by the channeled portion, and then dodge roll (or just walk away) from the burst portion. With Overloads, the channeled effect is a primary threat, and the burst portion is typically secondary.

I can’t speak to the PvP scene, they might not be viable right now, but given the right numbers buffs, they should be.

Again though, if it turns out that the Tempest is not the best spec for PvP, then don’t use the Tempest in PvP. That’s fine too.

On the sidenote, I don’t understand why there is so much QQ’ing about dragonhunter, The spec looks solid, fun to play and immersive. The guardian is part of the meta in pvp, pve and wvw. One of the best teams in EU was using double guards. So why the whine fest?

People complain about the Tempest because it’s too thematically appropriate, too much like exactly what the Elementalist is and should be. People complain about the Dragon Hunter for the opposite reason, that it has almost nothing to do with anything the Guardian is or should be, and seems more like a Ranger spec with spectral blue effects tacked on. Everyone’s got their opinions.

So because Ele is in a good place means we are supposed to get a terrible elite spec?

No, but it does mean that the Ele elite spec doesn’t need to be the “BiS” spec for Eles, it doesn’t need to be everything to every mode. They can design it to be fun and useful in certain roles, but maybe not the spec you’d always want to be using.

The biggest problem with the new trait is that its boring. For those of us who imagined the Ele wielding a sword, this is a great disappointment. I would redo the whole concept. At least dagger/dagger is exciting to play. This is not, it changes the whole concept of the high DPS/low armor excitement that is the Ele.

I’ll let you in on a little secret. . . you can run a D/D Tempest. . . and it’s fun as hell.

i would have personally preferred a ranged condition option, BUT elementalists were lacking true point blank AoE as well… dagger dagger is essentially front facing melee cleave-like in nature. and i really hate that playstyle on such a squishy class. i really wish that people would stop asking for melee options for elementalist.

That’s fine, if you don’t like how D/D Eles play, then play something else. There are plenty of other classes in the game, and even other builds within the Ele class. Elementalists are a skirmish range class, not a standoff range class. If you want a standoff range mage class, that’s the Mesmer (or Guardian, or Ranger, or Engi).

It’s a bit rich to say Overloads were well received; they were near universally panned. No matter how powerful you make them, noone wants to sit there channelling for 5 seconds, sorry but it’s just not good design nor fun.

That’s why you don’t “sit there,” you stay in constant motion. Where there really people in the beta that would just press F1 and go afk for a few seconds until it fired?

“Rise!”: This skill is now unblockable and instant cast. Damage increased. Now creates a shambling horror for each foe hit which lose health every second. These minions place Dark Bond on their master when they hit with attacks which causes 50% of the damage from attacks on the master to be redirected to the minion.

Yes, but as I noted earlier, they had SAID that they were not happy with the BWE1 version of that ability back when they announced the character months ago. I’m sure that they have been working on this replacement during that time, and just wanted to try out the BWE1 version before implementing it. It’s not like they just designed and implemented this power this week.

And again, even if they did do that all this week, so what? So they spent more time this week working on the Necro than on the Ele, there’s nothing wrong with that. Then maybe next week they spend more time on the Ele than the Necro. The goal is to have everything working by launch, NOT to have every class perfectly in balance for each BWE.

It’s also worth noting that the Tempest was the last class announced before BWE1, which means it was probably the last one “finished” in the state we saw it, while the other classes they have been working on for an additional few months or weeks to tweak them beyond what we saw in the announcements.

For me it’s a value issue. For a middle of the road 25 bucks expansion I would be able to tell my self that “Ok I won’t use the new elite profession for my main class, but at least the expansion is cheap”. Problem is the expansion is the price of the full game so my expectations are really high.

It’s not, actually, it’s $10 less than the cost of the original game, and $50 is the industry standard for a major expansion at this point. For that you get a new class, new maps, new specs for the existing classes, and years worth of continuing story with no monthly fee. If this were WoW you’d have to pay $50 for the expansion and then $50 AGAIN to cover the next six months of play. If it’s not worth it to you, then that’s fine, but don’t try to make it out like it isn’t worth it to other players.

Why don’t they make overload effects depend on stacking bonuses? For example: at 1 stack overload fire gives x1 might for 7sec, and apply 1 stack of burning for 3s. At 2 stacks overload fire gives x2 might for 14sec, and apply 2 stacks of burning for 3s. At 3 stacks, it gives x4 might for 18sec, and apply 3 stacks of burning for 3s… Overload stacks are attained upon staying in an element for 5s-10s-15s…

Ohoni.6057:

Have you actually tried Overloads? That take zero time to cast, because they are channeled abilities. The primary effect is during the channel, not when the channel ends. You can also move freely while using them, which is not true of Churning Earth. With CE people are unbothered by the channeled portion, and then dodge roll (or just walk away) from the burst portion. With Overloads, the channeled effect is a primary threat, and the burst portion is typically secondary.

I guess the 5 ticks of burning tornado, not 6 ticks after a successful cast, is a primary effect. You’re absolutely right, I was so wrong to claim otherwise. I mean, using e.g. fire tornado for 2 seconds obviously justifies getting that 20s cooldown on fire attunement.

I can’t speak to the PvP scene, they might not be viable right now, but given the right numbers buffs, they should be.

Again though, if it turns out that the Tempest is not the best spec for PvP, then don’t use the Tempest in PvP. That’s fine too.

Let’s make an elite spec that won’t be used ever in pvp and pve. Such an ingenious idea.

People complain about the Tempest because it’s too thematically appropriate, too much like exactly what the Elementalist is and should be. People complain about the Dragon Hunter for the opposite reason, that it has almost nothing to do with anything the Guardian is or should be, and seems more like a Ranger spec with spectral blue effects tacked on. Everyone’s got their opinions.

So? Shouldn’t elite specs bring something different to the core profession? If so, then dragonhunter achieves that perfectly and should be praised as what anet devs should strive to. I can only hope for more elite specs like dragonhunter.

No, but it does mean that the Ele elite spec doesn’t need to be the “BiS” spec for Eles, it doesn’t need to be everything to every mode. They can design it to be fun and useful in certain roles, but maybe not the spec you’d always want to be using.

It’s been said multiple times yet you choose it to ignore it. Tempest is a worse version of ele that cannot even perform as well as vanilla ele. What does it bring to the table that ele cannot do? Support? We have water + arcana. Control? We have that too in our offhands? Worst elite skill ever? Nope, didn’t have that. Thank you anet for making ele superior in yet another category.

I guess the 5 ticks of burning tornado, not 6 ticks after a successful cast, is a primary effect. You’re absolutely right, I was so wrong to claim otherwise. I mean, using e.g. fire tornado for 2 seconds obviously justifies getting that 20s cooldown on fire attunement.

Exactly. It’s all about in how you use it. It’s much easier to land those channeling ticks on a moving opponent than to hope that they stand around in the flaming tornado and take every tick it generates. Against a mobile target, it’s balanced for the channel to be the primary effect. I think a lot of the criticism of the Overloads come from people who have failed to recognize this and are just going for that finisher.

Let’s make an elite spec that won’t be used ever in pvp and pve. Such an ingenious idea.

I use it in PvE and am missing not having the BWE1 version available on my live Ele right now. The BWE2 version sounds even cooler. I just noticed that a lot of people in this thread seemed obsessed with how the elite spec stacks up in sPvP Conquest, and maybe. . . it’s not about that?

So? Shouldn’t elite specs bring something different to the core profession?

Again, differing opinions. Personally I like the subtle changes Tempest adds to my D/D rotation, but I find the Dragon Hunter to be way too different and unnecessary from my live Guardian, so I likely won’t even bother with it in HoT. I think offering different options is a good thing, a change to the way you’d typically play the class, but not so different that it seems to belong to a different class entirely, but that’s just my opinion on the matter.

It’s been said multiple times yet you choose it to ignore it. Tempest is a worse version of ele that cannot even perform as well as vanilla ele. What does it bring to the table that ele cannot do? Support? We have water + arcana. Control? We have that too in our offhands? Worst elite skill ever? Nope, didn’t have that. Thank you anet for making ele superior in yet another category.

It looks like in BWE1 the balance numbers were not there yet. BWE2 looks to be better, but nobody, including ANET, is saying that it is “done” at that point. They still need to fix the Elite, they still need to find the right balance on the channel between risk and reward, and between fragility and unstoppability, but assuming they do these things, the D/D Tempest should be a quite solid area DPS option, and the warhorn should be a useful squad support option in grouped PvE and WvW scenarios (and maybe also Stronghold).

My feedback to these changes:
I am really disappointed with them. Tempest, as opposed to other elite professions (maybe exept DH), is very unpopular elite spec currently. I was little surprised by the delay of BWE changes for Tempest, but I thought it was because they were working on some bigger and more impactful changes to fix some main issues with Tempest. There were also many posts about that Tempest problems are not in numbers, but in the concept. What we got? Increased numbers! No changes to traits. No rework on elite skill. No fixing core issues. Reaper and Chronomancer got about twice changes more. They touched almost everything their players complained about in forum. They even explained why or why not they did some of that changes!
So it’s really hard to not be disappointed by our changes. But I am not going to blame Anet for that. Because who knows? Maybe our devs are on vacation, maybe they are ill, maybe they are preparing some secret complete rework of Tempest to surprise us later. I am going to blame them only if when HoT launches, Tempest will be still terrible as it is.

Ohoni.6057:

Exactly. It’s all about in how you use it. It’s much easier to land those channeling ticks on a moving opponent than to hope that they stand around in the flaming tornado and take every tick it generates. Against a mobile target, it’s balanced for the channel to be the primary effect. I think a lot of the criticism of the Overloads come from people who have failed to recognize this and are just going for that finisher.

Obviously, that’s why they’re buffing them and saying they would be reviewing the Tempest traits along with casttimes vs. effects on overloads among several other aspects of the elite specialization. Because anet failed to recognise that.

I use it in PvE and am missing not having the BWE1 version available on my live Ele right now. The BWE2 version sounds even cooler. I just noticed that a lot of people in this thread seemed obsessed with how the elite spec stacks up in sPvP Conquest, and maybe. . . it’s not about that?

I tried it in both game modes and in neither of them I was remotely satisfied what I was presented with. If you already miss the fun of playing that spec then saying you’re the unique snowflake won’t be far from truth.

Again, differing opinions. Personally I like the subtle changes Tempest adds to my D/D rotation, but I find the Dragon Hunter to be way too different and unnecessary from my live Guardian, so I likely won’t even bother with it in HoT. I think offering different options is a good thing, a change to the way you’d typically play the class, but not so different that it seems to belong to a different class entirely, but that’s just my opinion on the matter.

So basically it boils down to the fact that you personally prefer the same thing ele has with just a slightly different flavour. I guess it settles the discussion because most ele players here are tired of the same playstyle we’ve been stuck on since launch.

It looks like in BWE1 the balance numbers were not there yet. BWE2 looks to be better, but nobody, including ANET, is saying that it is “done” at that point. They still need to fix the Elite, they still need to find the right balance on the channel between risk and reward, and between fragility and unstoppability, but assuming they do these things, the D/D Tempest should be a quite solid area DPS option, and the warhorn should be a useful squad support option in grouped PvE and WvW scenarios (and maybe also Stronghold).

Numbers aren’t the problem, there’s even a thread with a similar title. They haven’t touched a single trait, not even a cooldown reducing for shouts (which even dragonhunter got fixed).

I wish I was as blindly optimistic as you are.

Obviously, that’s why they’re buffing them and saying they would be reviewing the Tempest traits along with casttimes vs. effects on overloads among several other aspects of the elite specialization. Because anet failed to recognise that.

Nobody’s saying that they are perfect in their BEW1 form and could not use some tweaking, just that the fundamental elements of the skills work fine, they don’t need to be completely different, they just need to be “more and better.”

I tried it in both game modes and in neither of them I was remotely satisfied what I was presented with. If you already miss the fun of playing that spec then saying you’re the unique snowflake won’t be far from truth.

Maybe I just lucked into the right build and playstyle for it or something. I also tried out the Chronomancer and had absolutely no fun with that, while the Mesmer boards seem generally fine with it, so individual outcomes vary. These are new classes, so it’ll take some time before people figure out how they work. Imagine a GW2 beta 1 player trying to figure out how to have fun with with a D/D Ele in a “ranged caster” role.

So basically it boils down to the fact that you personally prefer the same thing ele has with just a slightly different flavour. I guess it settles the discussion because most ele players here are tired of the same playstyle we’ve been stuck on since launch.

That’s cool. There are eight other classes for that. I don’t think each class should be everything, your class choice should matter, each class should have strengths and weaknesses and ways to play that work and ways that don’t, and you should choose your class based on those factors. If you’re playing one class and it starts to get boring, roll up a different one for a while. If you eventually return, it’ll feel fresh and new.

Numbers aren’t the problem, there’s even a thread with a similar title. They haven’t touched a single trait, not even a cooldown reducing for shouts (which even dragonhunter got fixed).

they haven’t touched on a single trait YET, do you seriously believe that they won’t touch a single trait between now and launch? They didn’t mess with the traits because traits take longer to work out.

One thing I think a lot of you guys are missing here, the timeline of events. Just because a change was announced this or last week does not mean that they did all that work between then and BWE1. They have probably been working on things behind the scenes weeks before BWE1, but they weren’t ready for that live build yet for various development reasons. The Tempest was the latest class released before beta, so it was likely the least complete by that point, and also likely had the least background work between its announcement and BWE1, so they probably had the least amount of changes “lying around.”

Now we have no real idea what their BWE schedule is moving forward, their announcement schedule, or even the launch date, so the further out we get, the more speculative it becomes, but here’s a theory. Let’s say we get Warrior this week, Ranger next week, Thief the week after. Then we get BWE2 the next week, with all nine classes playable. If that were the schedule, I would expect Thief to be a bit less polished than Warrior, and I would expect the BWE1 classes to be in better shape than they were back then. Then let’s say it’s another month before BWE3. I would expect them to have more significant improvements to Tempest by then, and I would also expect Warrior and Ranger to improve more than I would expect Thief to improve, with more “big picture” changes. I would also expect BWE3 to have slightly less dramatic changes to classes like Necro and Chronomancer than BWE2 is seeing.

But basically like that, I expect to see rolling waves of changes, in which some classes will see a major shift in one test, and then a minor stat tweak in another. At no point is this the devs saying “Done!,” it’s just them trying out new options and implementing what they have time for before the beta release. A class might play significantly worse in one beta than in the beta before it, and that would still be fine, because the data they collect from that can help them improve the class for the next iteration. I also of course expect Revenant to see the most dramatic changes between betas, since it’s the entirely new class and has a lot more balance issues to work out as a whole.

So basically, as I’ve said numerous times, I think it’s reasonable to be disappointed in the current state of the Tempest, and underwhelmed by the proposed changes, but I don’t think it’s at all reasonable to display the sort of vitriol this thread has, or to assume that all hope is lost. That’s not how early betas work.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Jski.6180:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Jski.6180:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Killyox.3950:

Going to quote this because apparently people are incapable of reading more than 1 page of thread.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Hey everyone.

Not all feedback could be addressed this iteration in fair part due to time constraints on key members of our design team. That does not mean we are dismissing your feedback or that all the issues you’ve raised up to this point will go unchanged before expansion release.

This is a small set of changes from the first beta weekend event; we will continue to iterate on the specialization skills and mechanics and shall be listening for your constructive feedback.

We will be reviewing the Tempest traits along with casttimes vs. effects on overloads among several other aspects of the elite specialization.

That’s really funny… I mean, especially after reading the Rev, Reaper, and Chrono BWE feedback Dev notes. They must feel that the Tempest is in a good place trait and utility wise therefore are ignoring our feed back. If they agreed with us they would act on it like the did for the Rev, Reaper, and Chrono.

Bottomline is there is time for it. If they think there isn’t time that means that they think they aren’t going to make their internal deadline, thus they need to make the time either by longer hours or weekends. It’s a job for them. If I’m late on a project and the deadline is coming up, guess what? Yup, I put in longer hours to make sure everything is done on time. Yes, that means I make time.

Dose not make it right to make others work the same hours as you do (though this is getting way off-topic). Its like the Amazon thing yes some ppl are marry to there work and these ppl tend to get payed very well for there time but then these same ppl tend to feel every one should work as they do leading them to push ppl who may simply want a job to make money to live and have a life out side of work.

Any way i have a strong feeling if you did not like say overload on tempest then odds are your never going to like this elite spec and that is ok. Keep on with ele its still a good well rounded class. Ele lose nothing for you not liking tempest.

Please, leave your feelings at the door. It’s a job. I’ve worked jobs where I’m gone half the year. Military personnel leave for much longer periods working their jobs. So, please, leave your strong feelings at the door. The Devs, who have a very safe job and who go home every night to their families, can put in a some extra hours to get the job done THAT THEY ARE PAID TO DO… And it’s not like they won’t be compensated for those extra hours.

If you leave your feeling at the door why cant you leave your job as you come out of the door. It just seems its all lost and no gain or all work when you told to and no “life.” The very ideal of mmorpg IS counter to the ideal of living to work. Just being payed dose not mean they own the person.
It will be done / talked about when its ready.

Can’t talk to you as you’re all emotion and no logic. Good day, sir.

If you’re all logic, why can you not see the surge of animosity being thrown around for little reason here on this thread?

It will be pretty funny if tempest suddenly becomes viable after they nerf d/d ele.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Please, leave your feelings at the door. It’s a job. I’ve worked jobs where I’m gone half the year. Military personnel leave for much longer periods working their jobs. So, please, leave your strong feelings at the door. The Devs, who have a very safe job and who go home every night to their families, can put in a some extra hours to get the job done THAT THEY ARE PAID TO DO… And it’s not like they won’t be compensated for those extra hours.

You haven’t worked in the industry or near it apparently. Some reading:
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/KatherineRogers/20140403/214684/Working_in_the_Games_Industry_a_job_to_die_for.php
http://trenchescomic.com/tales/post/my-life-in-hell-1-6...-and-hell-1-2-6...-and-hell-1-6-2...-hell-1-2-3-6

A reddit post, take it as you will: https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/1wvs6z/what_is_it_really_like_to_work_in_the_gaming/

People in the gaming industry are not paid well at all, and work really bad hours already. Add on the fact that you’ll lose your job because someone overseas can do it for cheaper and email the files. It’s not an “easy, cozy job” where you go home to your family. More like “long, difficult job where you go home to your dog in your 1 bedroom apartment”. Caveats exist of course, as in everything.

You accuse Jski of being overly emotional and not logical, but then you bring up “military personnel leaving for long periods of time”. Which can be viewed as trying to appeal to one’s emotion or their patriotism…which is a logical fallacy. Granted, the military isn’t all that great either (but that drifts far off topic).

Back on topic now

What were the exact channel times of overloads again? People are saying 5, but the wikipedia states:

Fire – 4 1/2
Water – 2 3/4
Air – 4 3/4
Earth – 5
(They did feel really long in the beta weekend test though)

Continuing on, I feel like we’re being balanced against our trait options. At first, I felt overloads were weak, but after thinking it over for a moment, some could be really strong with trait options.

Earth overload ticks cripple and immobilzes at the end of the channel. Earth traitline grants you base toughness, protection on aura or armor of earth at 50%, geomancer’s defense, and then stone heart or diamond skin to top it off (with a break bar). There is a lot of moving parts there, and I feel that is the hardest part of balancing elementalist.

Even though the build might likely be W/Ar/T, what if someone ran F/Ar/T? or F/W/T? E/W/T? Someone mentioned that they enjoyed fire overload in PvE, I assume they had the Fire trait line equipped (please correct me if I’m wrong).

This reminds me of when people complained about Elemental Attunement being moved to Grandmaster and riots started in the forum. It was reverted and well…D/D cele ele is still incredibly annoying.

Forgotten Legend.9281:

wow, this thread is more toxic than queensdale champ train map chat… come on guys, be respectful!

Feedback from BWE1 was close to 100% negative; it could hardly have been more negative. Yet here we are with a bunch of purely superficial changes that fail to address any of the key feedback points.

How is it possible to be both passionate about the game and not feel completely kittened off by this response?

Killyox.3950:

Going to quote this because apparently people are incapable of reading more than 1 page of thread.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Not all feedback could be addressed this iteration in fair part due to time constraints on key members of our design team. That does not mean we are dismissing your feedback or that all the issues you’ve raised up to this point will go unchanged before expansion release.

This is a small set of changes from the first beta weekend event; we will continue to iterate on the specialization skills and mechanics and shall be listening for your constructive feedback.

We will be reviewing the Tempest traits along with casttimes vs. effects on overloads among several other aspects of the elite specialization.

The fact they spent time tweaking the numbers on all the skills strongly implies they’re not going to materially change anything, that’s why people are kittened off.

The core issue is that Tempest is just a reskinned D/D Ele, which we’ve already been playing for 3 years, there is nothing new or particularly interesting about yet another close range support role. WE ALREADY DO THAT IN SPADES.

scerevisiae.1972:

Forgotten Legend.9281:

wow, this thread is more toxic than queensdale champ train map chat… come on guys, be respectful!

Feedback from BWE1 was close to 100% negative; it could hardly have been more negative. Yet here we are with a bunch of purely superficial changes that fail to address any of the key feedback points.

How is it possible to be both passionate about the game and not feel completely kittened off by this response?

Close to 100% negative isn’t 100%. And it sort of ignores the fact that, some negative feedback wasn’t complaints about the same points. One major thing people complained alot about was how they could get the same effect by swapping attunements alot and using different skills.

Try not to fence everybody into your personal emotional state. Some people aren’t happy with where Tempest is but think it can be changed to make it better without being disrespectful and non-constructive.

scerevisiae.1972:

Killyox.3950:

Going to quote this because apparently people are incapable of reading more than 1 page of thread.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Not all feedback could be addressed this iteration in fair part due to time constraints on key members of our design team. That does not mean we are dismissing your feedback or that all the issues you’ve raised up to this point will go unchanged before expansion release.

This is a small set of changes from the first beta weekend event; we will continue to iterate on the specialization skills and mechanics and shall be listening for your constructive feedback.

We will be reviewing the Tempest traits along with casttimes vs. effects on overloads among several other aspects of the elite specialization.

The fact they spent time tweaking the numbers on all the skills strongly implies they’re not going to materially change anything, that’s why people are kittened off.

The core issue is that Tempest is just a reskinned D/D Ele, which we’ve already been playing for 3 years, there is nothing new or particularly interesting about yet another close range support role. WE ALREADY DO THAT IN SPADES.

Then play something different!! Holy moly, it’s like people don’t know what they want! They think they know what they want but they really don’t (which a large majority of customers are like that). If something isn’t new and exciting enough for you, try something else!

Leo G.4501:

it can be changed to make it better without being disrespectful and non-constructive.

nothing in this thread is disrespectful and most of it is constructive. speaking of respect, i think it’s important to recognise that some of us are passionate about the game/class and this is reflected in our feedback.

there is a large gap between impassioned, constructive feedback and disrespectful abuse. i see plenty of the former in this forum lately and not that much of the latter.

How is it possible to be both passionate about the game and not feel completely kittened off by this response?

Sanity and perspective, one would assume.

Close to 100% negative isn’t 100%. And it sort of ignores the fact that, some negative feedback wasn’t complaints about the same points. One major thing people complained alot about was how they could get the same effect by swapping attunements alot and using different skills.

True. Even in this thread there are a lot of unhappy people, but some are unhappy that Tempest is not far enough away from the D/D meta, and others are complaining that it doesn’t support the D/D meta well enough.

nothing in this thread is disrespectful and most of it is constructive.

That isn’t even remotely true.

edit:
I thought of a solid litmus here. Anyone who raises the BWE1→BWE2 changes to any class that is not the Tempest is not being a constructive participant.

It’s fairly simple. Anyone who complains that other classes got a bigger change from BWE1 to 2 are not working towards improving the Tempest with those comments, they are just griping and whinging. It’s fair to compare the Tempest overall to other elite specs, as in “when everything is sorted, will Tempest be in balance with them?,” but to compare the changes made between specific beta phases is just childish tantrum, “why did that kid get something that I didn’t get, right at this specific moment?”

The constructive discussion is in comparing the Tempest to the current Ele, and to the predicted environment post HoT, not to how other classes are changing mid-beta.

Vinteros Asteano.1209:

You haven’t worked in the industry or near it apparently. Some reading:
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/KatherineRogers/20140403/214684/Working_in_the_Games_Industry_a_job_to_die_for.php
http://trenchescomic.com/tales/post/my-life-in-hell-1-6...-and-hell-1-2-6...-and-hell-1-6-2...-hell-1-2-3-6

A reddit post, take it as you will: https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/1wvs6z/what_is_it_really_like_to_work_in_the_gaming/

People in the gaming industry are not paid well at all, and work really bad hours already. Add on the fact that you’ll lose your job because someone overseas can do it for cheaper and email the files. It’s not an “easy, cozy job” where you go home to your family. More like “long, difficult job where you go home to your dog in your 1 bedroom apartment”. Caveats exist of course, as in everything.

Well, I don’t think the gaming industry is as bad as low-level retail or fast food (that’s your 1 bedroom/dog scenario in many cases) but yeah, it’s not as great as people seem to think. Only higher level/more experienced devs tend to get the fat loot people think of and most of the time I hear that’s more team-lead spots so likely not as much hands-on with ever line of code and art asset as those under them. I actually wanted to be a game designer myself in my younger days but the industry is very competitive and seems driven by trends rather than what’s actually fun (sort of like the whole meta-game thing in MMOs!!). Now my goal is to get an easy well paying job that I have spare time to make games for fun in….so I joined the military >_<

Vinteros Asteano.1209:

Earth overload ticks cripple and immobilzes at the end of the channel. Earth traitline grants you base toughness, protection on aura or armor of earth at 50%, geomancer’s defense, and then stone heart or diamond skin to top it off (with a break bar). There is a lot of moving parts there, and I feel that is the hardest part of balancing elementalist.

True. This is one thing few people tend to discuss in depth. The way I see these overloads is that they could be several different possibilities, one of which being they could allow you, as a Tempest, to sort of specialize in certain trait lines and make them + the overloads quite potent…or perhaps they can actually make up for shortcomings you have for speccing a certain way. I actually felt the latter when it came to the Water Overload because during the beta1, I decided not to touch the Water or Arcane line and only use Fire, Air and Earth. With celestial gear, water was quite decent and using the shout heal, I could still provide a good amount of condi cleanse and healing. I had fun, but this is coming from someone who hadn’t played the game for a couple months.

Next time, I think I might try a mixes of different gear (I was too lazy to mess around with gear/runes) perhaps going more glassy but using support lines? I dunno.

scerevisiae.1972:

Leo G.4501:

it can be changed to make it better without being disrespectful and non-constructive.

nothing in this thread is disrespectful and most of it is constructive. speaking of respect, i think it’s important to recognise that some of us are passionate about the game/class and this is reflected in our feedback.

Well I don’t agree. There is a lot of disrepsect and a lot of non-constructive posts. It’s all in how you word things. When I made that post, I could have worded it in a far more disrespectful tone (calling out people for whining or some other such nonsense) but I didn’t. I tried to form my message in a way that gets across the information that I want with less of an emotional charge to it. Hopefully, doing so will allow people to read more of the message rather than the emotion.

But then we shouldn’t need people around trying to police up how we interact with each other. Lol I’m not here to do that, just getting across my 2cents. Take or leave what I say as you will. I’ll try to stick to talking about actual suggestions posted instead.

Taboria.3071:

After reading all this constructive feedback, I feel encouraged to post mine.

I think about the tempest who plays with the forces of nature, but to achieve this she might have to find the balance between the elements. The concept art of the Tempest on the shore gave me these ideas.

So how would I imagine the
Overloads:
First, overloads are something big that comes with a price. But what if instead of locking you out of the Attument you have to earn your overload by using opposite elements.
So:
-if you are camping in Fire by using Fire Skills, you charge your Water Overload. If you are in Water by using Water Skills, you charge your Fire Overload.
-Same for Air and Earh.

Fire and Air Overload are location targeted, because they are offensive Overloads, but for the range they may make you immobile while casting it, so still there is a downside. The extra range provides more flexibility and more interworking with other weapons, not just for the dagger.

Interesting ideas, not sure if they could work without changing a lot of things though. The whole “charging an overload with it’s opposite” might work if they relegated overloads to a kind of ‘adrenaline’ bar but again, that might be a lot of UI changes. Stuff like that may simply not be the type of solution the devs would try to use yet.

Taboria.3071:

Traits:
I agree with most poeple that all minor traits actually should be in one minor.
Rest of the minors should open up possibilites and interworking with the rest of the elmentalist abilities. The same for some of Majors.

Some example trait ideas:
-Glyph of storm has slightly longer duration or larger area
-Mist Form receives properties based on your current Attunement. In fire you leave fire field behind or pulsating fireburst. In Air you become something like the current ball of lightning, but you are free to move in any direction. In Earth you blind and cripple everyone you touch.
-Lightning Hammer may last longer and has more charge or its skills has faster recharge
-Shout Trait!
-Arcane Shield after exploding provide all Auras. for a short duration
-Your blast finishers have an offensive component as well (where it has offensive, would have a defensive):
fire – flame burst
lightning – blind
ice – vulnerability
light – weakness
and so on…
-Your whirl finishers would pulsate defensive boons.

I like some of these ideas, especially the ones aimed at multi-type utilities and skills. The idea to make storms persist longer (aiming at Glyph of Storms, Conjure weapon storms and some weapon skills) seems like a neat idea. A trait that pulsates Retaliation and Protection (or what have you) while using Whirl finishers could also be pretty neat to build around. A trait that gives Auras a weak Arcane Shield effect (1 block) could be something too although having Arcane Shield grant all auras on destruction might be too strong >_>

Finally, the Mist form thing could definitely be a cool trait especially if they gave Tempest another means of getting Mist form (via a trait) so you can double (or triple with runes) up on Mist form and utilize it for more than it currently is. Lol making Mist form take the form of your current attunement would be a cool concept. Make it so you become a moving ‘Mist Storm’ for its duration with its own effects.

Zaoda.1653:

Righteous Resistance:

Become invulnerable while using an Overload. (my reason behind this is that overloads are very short in duration, and there should be a HUGE incentive to using an overload. This would be a great incentive, would make enemies truly fear you and try to avoid you, and would be a pretty good trait, hence grandmaster).

Maaaaybe on a, like…60sec ICD? I mean, all things considered, 60sec is long but you likely won’t be popping off a lot of Overloads in a min anyway…I might see this as possible without being too good.

Zaoda.1653:

War Caller:

Based on your current attunement, shouts inflict a condition on foes. Gain more ferocity (+150) when using a shout. Shouts recharge (20%) faster. (inspired by the arcane grandmaster trait, elemental surge)

Fire: Burning
Water: Vulnerability
Air: Weakness
Earth: Bleeding

Would personally rather just have Stability (self) on shout + the ferocity/cooldown thing. If it were, I could actually see some counter-counterplay by using one of the 2 instant shouts while you’re overloading. Also, would be nice if Shock and Aftershock gave stability baseline.

Argol Vazin.3061:

I kind of like the idea of overloads working like Greased Lightning for Pugilist/Monk in Final fantasy 14. On that, as long as you keep your base combo going, you build up stacks of greased lightning that increases damage and skill speed.

So imagine as long as we use skills from 1 attunment we build up overload stacks that have effects added to it for each increase in stack.
So fire could be
lvl 1 Might stack 5
lvl 2 Might stack 10, Retaliation stack
lvl 3 Might stack, Retaliation, Mobile fire field on character that ticks damage on enemies.
then you can unleash the overload stack in a big storm like AoE. swaping attunment removes the stacks.

Sort of the premise I had with another idea but kind of reverse. Overloading would give the current attunement skills extra effects or something. Not sure how I feel about your idea. Maybe flesh it out more?

Avador.8934:

So because Ele is in a good place means we are supposed to get a terrible elite spec? All we ever wanted with Tempest is that it will bring something new and good together. Not better than base ele, just good. But Tempest is terrible. It even doesn’t synergize with our other traitlines (especially Arcane, our strongest traitline).

And it doesn’t synergise at all with our 2 ranged main hands, unlike say chronomancer which synergises really well with different mesmer specs.

Leo G.4501:

Argol Vazin.3061:

I kind of like the idea of overloads working like Greased Lightning for Pugilist/Monk in Final fantasy 14. On that, as long as you keep your base combo going, you build up stacks of greased lightning that increases damage and skill speed.

So imagine as long as we use skills from 1 attunment we build up overload stacks that have effects added to it for each increase in stack.
So fire could be
lvl 1 Might stack 5
lvl 2 Might stack 10, Retaliation stack
lvl 3 Might stack, Retaliation, Mobile fire field on character that ticks damage on enemies.
then you can unleash the overload stack in a big storm like AoE. swaping attunment removes the stacks.

Sort of the premise I had with another idea but kind of reverse. Overloading would give the current attunement skills extra effects or something. Not sure how I feel about your idea. Maybe flesh it out more?

flesh out how?

I mean the idea is, as you stay in an attunment it snowballs to a point it is worth staying in said attunment. and you have a strong AoE skill so when you want to swap attunments you dump your stacks in a showy display.

Water overload would basically make you a mobile water field that has a steady stream of healing.
AOE could be a blizzard that chills and ticks damage to enemies caught in it

Air overload would be about increasing speed. maybe gaining alacrity as well

Earth would make you a bastion of defense.
Protection, Defiance, maybe even like a field that provides 25% chance to destroy projectiles, but maybe at the cost of some speed?

The idea is that as you gain stacks of overload you are becoming one with the element. a living storm ready to unlease that power at a moments notice.

Maybe I can explain it better but I am mind blanking at the moment

nearlight.3064:

Dear devs,

Please give all of the overloads breakbars and stun them if the breakbars are broken like revenant shield.

Love,
a sad elementalist.

I’ve been advocating for this since the original PoI reveal. The break bar is such a natural defense to the overcast mechanic, that feels thematically appropriate, and retains a good risk-reward ratio. Now that the damage/heals of the spells have been adjusted that’s really all that needs to happen at for overloads specifically to be usable abilities. I think adding a decrease to the unlock timer to the Harmonious Conduits trait would be good too.

Ok, here’s a fix for a trait: Gains 5sec of quickness when casting an overload.

You’re welcome.

Argol Vazin.3061:

flesh out how?

Like, flesh out how the other attunements would work with said style of change and/or how they’d work together or apart? And just how long do you think it should take to build up?

And would there be any possible ways to minimalize changes but still incorporate the spirit of your idea? (the last part mainly trying to flex the idea around in various ways, if need be)

thetwothousand.5049:

nearlight.3064:

Dear devs,

Please give all of the overloads breakbars and stun them if the breakbars are broken like revenant shield.

Love,
a sad elementalist.

I’ve been advocating for this since the original PoI reveal. The break bar is such a natural defense to the overcast mechanic, that feels thematically appropriate, and retains a good risk-reward ratio. Now that the damage/heals of the spells have been adjusted that’s really all that needs to happen at for overloads specifically to be usable abilities. I think adding a decrease to the unlock timer to the Harmonious Conduits trait would be good too.

It might be too easy to get the cast off, but it’d definitely sound like a Grandmaster trait (meaning the other 2 GMs would have to match its usefulness, hopefully). I wouldn’t mind a trait like one of the above posters that gave you stronger effects from casting the attunement’s spells as another GM trait that then makes you choose between stronger overloads, more reliable overloads and [some other option…more/faster overloads maybe?].

Leo G.4501:

Argol Vazin.3061:

flesh out how?

Like, flesh out how the other attunements would work with said style of change and/or how they’d work together or apart? And just how long do you think it should take to build up?

And would there be any possible ways to minimalize changes but still incorporate the spirit of your idea? (the last part mainly trying to flex the idea around in various ways, if need be)

I would say about 5 seconds per level. since it is supposed to be a build up to make staying in the attunment worthwhile. Could include a trait that decreases cooldowns of weapon skills when you get a new stack of Overload.

I could imagine a grandmaster trait such as
Overloaded attunment Cooldown reduced by 75%
Overload stack persists for 5 seconds when swapping attunment

So this means you could maintain fire, switch to earth for obsidian flesh and return to fire

Of course I am not sure how my idea would generate a new role, unless having mobile fields would be different enough….but that is exactly what the herald does

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Hey everyone.

Not all feedback could be addressed this iteration in fair part due to time constraints on key members of our design team. That does not mean we are dismissing your feedback or that all the issues you’ve raised up to this point will go unchanged before expansion release.

This is a small set of changes from the first beta weekend event; we will continue to iterate on the specialization skills and mechanics and shall be listening for your constructive feedback.

We will be reviewing the Tempest traits along with casttimes vs. effects on overloads among several other aspects of the elite specialization.

Not willing to be rude at you Ireno (since you’re not repsonsible)

Here is one HUGE issue with this iteration then

Tweaking number BEFORE dealing with mechanics issue is POINTLESS!!!
Once you fix mechanics (which means changing them), you’ll 99% be sure to have to tweak number

I mean, isn’t obvious that what is good for A is probably not for B when A & B are different ?
Hope the person that made this patch will read this or will be told about this

Not willing to be rude at you Ireno (since you’re not repsonsible)

Here is one HUGE issue with this iteration then

Tweaking number BEFORE dealing with mechanics issue is POINTLESS!!!
Once you fix mechanics (which means changing them), you’ll 99% be sure to have to tweak number

I mean, isn’t obvious that what is good for A is probably not for B when A & B are different ?
Hope the person that made this patch will read this or will be told about this

Yes, they’re professional game developers, they’re well aware of that. But huge Tempest mechanics changes are obviously off the table for BWE2, they would take more time than they have to devote to the class within that period. So tweaking some numbers is all they can do for now.

Does that mean that they expect the tweaked numbers will result in a “finished” class? Not likely, but it does at least give players something to try out, see how it feels, see if at least parts of the class feel better with those new numbers. Would you have preferred they just made zero changes at all to the Tempest for BWE2?

So they’ll continue to work behind the scenes on bigger changes to the class, and add them to a beta phase when they’re happy with them, and when they do release them, there will still likely be numbers that will need tweaking, but having players playing the Tempest with these new BWE2 numbers will give them diagnostic data that can be useful to them.

Or not, it really doesn’t matter. The options were that they tweak these numbers or they do nothing at all until they have the time to make a bigger change. They chose to give us these tweaked numbers, and the appropriate response is “thank you.”

Ohoni.6057:

Yes, they’re professional game developers, they’re well aware of that. But huge Tempest mechanics changes are obviously off the table for BWE2, they would take more time than they have to devote to the class within that period. So tweaking some numbers is all they can do for now.

No they’re not aware since they just LOST TIME doing something that will end up beeing useless.
I mean, just read this kittening patch note

As i said in another topic, if they’re short on time then tell it, and say what you plan on working on.
On the other hand, don’t play the mute people and even worse: don’t do useless things just to say “we did something”. It’s in the 1st case bad communication (not like we’re not used to with anet …), in the 2nd, acting like you’re thinking your customer are complete idiot ….

I would like overloads to be more impactful at the end of casting instead doing almost the same all the time. Also they should increase radius a lot to make them useful for non-melee eles. Something like this:

• Fire: 900 radius. Pulse might to nearby allies. At the end, grants retalation to nearby allies and summon massive meteors that burns and knock-downs (or launches) foes.
• Water: 900 radius. Pulse vigor and regeneration to nearby allies. At the end, cure 3 conditions and heal them for a big amount, also chills nearby foes.
• Air: 900 radius. Pulse swiftness to nearby allies. At the end, summon a thunderstorm that highly damages foes and dazes them for 1/4 sec, also apply blindness and 10 stacks of vulnerability on them.
• Earth: 900 radius. Pulse protection to nearby allies. At the end, immobilizes (2-3 sec), cripples (5-10 sec) and bleeds foes, and grants aegis to allies.

For Rebound, something like this: 120 sec cd. 1 sec casting time. Reduces your attunement cds by 50%. Based on your current attunement, cast an overload’s final effect in targeted area (1200 range, 240 radius).

Warhorn is ok I think after these changes, but it’s not weapon for me, so I won’t be using it. Rest of the shouts probably the same, but they rly need a trait for 20% cd reduction.

Traits need a compete rework, most of them are crap right now. All minor traits affecting overloads should be in 1 (max 2) minor trait only. Also if they really want to keep supporting attunement camping (which I dislike a lot, because it’s working against ele design, including many other traits), they should at least make some trait like: Gain bonus to your stats every 3 sec based on your attunement (fire: power, water: healing, air: precision, earth: condi dmg/toughness), max X stacks, bonus is reset when you swap attunement.
Also maybe some compensation trait when overloads are interrupted? : When overload is interrupted by an enemy, your overload cd is reduced by 2 sec and apply boon to yourself and condition to that enemy (fire: retalation/burning; water: vigor/vulnerability; air: fury/weakness; earth: stability/torment), also you are healed for a small amount.

Ohoni.6057:

They chose to give us these tweaked numbers, and the appropriate response is “thank you.”

The appropriate response is “Thank you but this doesn’t solve the inherent mechanical/playstyle issues presented in PvP/WvW where the overloads are interrupt bait. Can you please look into adding XYZ to help with these issues? While the number tweaks were necessary for the Water overload and the range increase on Air was needed, the mechanical implementation issues are the biggest offenders and confirmation you are looking into alleviating these issues would be awesome. We know you’re not the dev who is in charge of making these changes, but if you or he could give us a heads up as to looking into it, that would be great.”

No need to kittenfoot around and treat the developers as if they’re on a pedestal. They’re human and giving critique is why we’re here and why we have the beta weekends.

No they’re not aware since they just LOST TIME doing something that will end up beeing useless.
I mean, just read this kittening patch note

Tweaking a few numbers won’t cost them much time. Meanwhile, they are using their actual time to make major changes to the game, changes that might be for another class right now, or that might be for the Tempest but won’t be ready by the next beta, but better that they use their time where they feel it is most effective than that they spend their time inefficiently trying to make sure that every class feels like a special snowflake at every phase in development.

The appropriate response is “Thank you but this doesn’t solve the inherent mechanical/playstyle issues presented in PvP/WvW where the overloads are interrupt bait. Can you please look into adding XYZ to help with these issues? While the number tweaks were necessary for the Water overload and the range increase on Air was needed, the mechanical implementation issues are the biggest offenders and confirmation you are looking into alleviating these issues would be awesome. We know you’re not the dev who is in charge of making these changes, but if you or he could give us a heads up as to looking into it, that would be great.”

That is also an appropriate response, but they likely know all that stuff already from the previous feedback threads. The inappropriate response would be all that, followed by “and I want it nooooooow!,” which seems to be a fairly common response to this thread so far.

Ohoni.6057:

No they’re not aware since they just LOST TIME doing something that will end up beeing useless.
I mean, just read this kittening patch note

Tweaking a few numbers won’t cost them much time. Meanwhile, they are using their actual time to make major changes to the game, changes that might be for another class right now, or that might be for the Tempest but won’t be ready by the next beta, but better that they use their time where they feel it is most effective than that they spend their time inefficiently trying to make sure that every class feels like a special snowflake at every phase in development.

The appropriate response is “Thank you but this doesn’t solve the inherent mechanical/playstyle issues presented in PvP/WvW where the overloads are interrupt bait. Can you please look into adding XYZ to help with these issues? While the number tweaks were necessary for the Water overload and the range increase on Air was needed, the mechanical implementation issues are the biggest offenders and confirmation you are looking into alleviating these issues would be awesome. We know you’re not the dev who is in charge of making these changes, but if you or he could give us a heads up as to looking into it, that would be great.”

That is also an appropriate response, but they likely know all that stuff already from the previous feedback threads. The inappropriate response would be all that, followed by “and I want it nooooooow!,” which seems to be a fairly common response to this thread so far.

Most of the people who have a head on their shoulders know that “now” is impossible. However, many that are disappointed have been around here for a very long time and have very little faith that these issues will be addressed especially due to how this post and the followup were worded and are just frustrated.

The Reaper, Chronomancer and Dragonhunter were developed and presented months ago, it makes sense they are the first ones to get major fixes. And because as soon as their changes were announced, people on the ele forums started crying “but what about us???!”, the devs probably felt they needed produce something sooner rather than later (which they didn’t really have to, but still did). I guess Anet should’ve just said “changes will be announced at a later point”, but that would’ve also produced an outrage.

Ganathar.4956:

draxynnic.3719:

Considering that one of the main criticisms to overload is its vulnerability to interrupts, what about giving it a stack (or however many seems balanced) of Stability when overloading instead of improving Protection? Since you’ve got Swiftness running while overloading you should still be able to kite to reduce incoming damage (if anything, more easily, since you don’t need to face the enemy to hurt them while overloading) but making it take more than one interrupt to stop it will make overloads much more viable.

Stability on overloads could be a solution, but you also need to keep in mind that the tempest has almost no decent options to defend from damage while overloading, except maybe arcane shield or armor of earth if you are desperate for protection. That means that you become a target for burst instead, because you get stripped of your active defenses, which are essential for the survival of the elementalist. Swiftness can help a little, but it’s not enough and we have plenty of access to that on the base ele specs and skills anyway.

You get protection while overloading out of minor traits as well as stability, so that’s a 33% reduction in damage, and from memory you can use instant-cast skills while overloading, which is a large portion of elementalist defensive skills. So I’m not inclined to think that an overloading elementalist is any more of an obvious target to spike than a dagger/dagger elementalist, although in a condition-heavy environment one might want to bring Cleansing Fire, other traited cantrips, or other sources of instant-cast condition removal.

draxynnic.3719:

Ganathar.4956:

draxynnic.3719:

Considering that one of the main criticisms to overload is its vulnerability to interrupts, what about giving it a stack (or however many seems balanced) of Stability when overloading instead of improving Protection? Since you’ve got Swiftness running while overloading you should still be able to kite to reduce incoming damage (if anything, more easily, since you don’t need to face the enemy to hurt them while overloading) but making it take more than one interrupt to stop it will make overloads much more viable.

Stability on overloads could be a solution, but you also need to keep in mind that the tempest has almost no decent options to defend from damage while overloading, except maybe arcane shield or armor of earth if you are desperate for protection. That means that you become a target for burst instead, because you get stripped of your active defenses, which are essential for the survival of the elementalist. Swiftness can help a little, but it’s not enough and we have plenty of access to that on the base ele specs and skills anyway.

You get protection while overloading out of minor traits as well as stability, so that’s a 33% reduction in damage, and from memory you can use instant-cast skills while overloading, which is a large portion of elementalist defensive skills. So I’m not inclined to think that an overloading elementalist is any more of an obvious target to spike than a dagger/dagger elementalist, although in a condition-heavy environment one might want to bring Cleansing Fire, other traited cantrips, or other sources of instant-cast condition removal.

Which means that if tempest ever becomes viable, cantrips will be the only choice once again. The PvP build diversity expansion potential is looking amazing! I’m guessing that the weapons of choice would be D/D as well, right?

Edit: Not to disregard your stability suggestion, it’s much better than what we have now. I simply can’t understand how overloads as a concept made sense for this profession. It is the squishiest class in terms of base stats and needs many active defences. Instead of doing something to address this for more build diversity, they came up with an idea that makes cantrips even more mandatory.

2sec prot on a 5sec channeling ability (and 20sec cd and 25sec effective cd due to the 5sec charge up)

GM trait!

JUST SAYING

Leo G.4501:

It might be too easy to get the cast off, but it’d definitely sound like a Grandmaster trait (meaning the other 2 GMs would have to match its usefulness, hopefully). I wouldn’t mind a trait like one of the above posters that gave you stronger effects from casting the attunement’s spells as another GM trait that then makes you choose between stronger overloads, more reliable overloads and [some other option…more/faster overloads maybe?].

That’s what I like about the break bars. Anet can adjust how much punishment it takes,and they can also change the effects on a successful break. Look at revenant shield 5, once it breaks you are stunned for 2 seconds and have 25 stacks of vuln. That is a death sentence if you use it wrong.

I also really don’t agree with making a break bar/stability trait. The biggest draw back of overloads, and the Tempest spec, is that they are useless because you will never ever get one off in serious play currently. Making the solution be a trait will 100% lock any Tempest into that trait regardless of what the other options are, and I don’t think Arenanet should be designing of that nature. Overloads becoming viable skills are going to make or break the Tempest spec, and making each overload usable regardless of trait layout is going to be the litmus test imo.

thetwothousand.5049:

Leo G.4501:

It might be too easy to get the cast off, but it’d definitely sound like a Grandmaster trait (meaning the other 2 GMs would have to match its usefulness, hopefully). I wouldn’t mind a trait like one of the above posters that gave you stronger effects from casting the attunement’s spells as another GM trait that then makes you choose between stronger overloads, more reliable overloads and [some other option…more/faster overloads maybe?].

That’s what I like about the break bars. Anet can adjust how much punishment it takes,and they can also change the effects on a successful break. Look at revenant shield 5, once it breaks you are stunned for 2 seconds and have 25 stacks of vuln. That is a death sentence if you use it wrong.

The thing is, overloads don’t do anything the elementalist cant already do. So even if you make it so that overloads are not too hard to pull off, it’s just going to do what the ele can already do in another manner.

The elementalist need the overloads to do something new, like new boons and condi, example: revive allies on water overload instead of more cleanse and healing.

Xillllix.3485:

thetwothousand.5049:

Leo G.4501:

It might be too easy to get the cast off, but it’d definitely sound like a Grandmaster trait (meaning the other 2 GMs would have to match its usefulness, hopefully). I wouldn’t mind a trait like one of the above posters that gave you stronger effects from casting the attunement’s spells as another GM trait that then makes you choose between stronger overloads, more reliable overloads and [some other option…more/faster overloads maybe?].

That’s what I like about the break bars. Anet can adjust how much punishment it takes,and they can also change the effects on a successful break. Look at revenant shield 5, once it breaks you are stunned for 2 seconds and have 25 stacks of vuln. That is a death sentence if you use it wrong.

The thing is, overloads don’t do anything the elementalist cant already do. So even if you make it so that overloads are not too hard to pull off, it’s just going to do what the ele can already do in another manner.

The elementalist need the overloads to do something new, like new boons and condi, example: revive allies on water overload instead of more cleanse and healing.

At the end of the day there are a finite amount of ways skills can work in a game. My biggest fear with what your asking in role dilution. How long until every class can do everything and theres no reason to have any diversity at all?

Beyond that somethings, like the water overload converting condis to boons, are useful, new, and probably doable before the game launches. Asking for brand new, custom effects is simply an unrealistic approach at this point. Tempest won’t bring a new role without redeveloping it, but the tools are still there to make old fresh air specs viable again, and put a new spin of classic d/d builds. This is all personal opinion of course, but at this point I just want Tempest to be something decent for HoT, and hope they don’t mess up our next spec so spectacularly.

thetwothousand.5049:

Xillllix.3485:

thetwothousand.5049:

Leo G.4501:

It might be too easy to get the cast off, but it’d definitely sound like a Grandmaster trait (meaning the other 2 GMs would have to match its usefulness, hopefully). I wouldn’t mind a trait like one of the above posters that gave you stronger effects from casting the attunement’s spells as another GM trait that then makes you choose between stronger overloads, more reliable overloads and [some other option…more/faster overloads maybe?].

That’s what I like about the break bars. Anet can adjust how much punishment it takes,and they can also change the effects on a successful break. Look at revenant shield 5, once it breaks you are stunned for 2 seconds and have 25 stacks of vuln. That is a death sentence if you use it wrong.

The thing is, overloads don’t do anything the elementalist cant already do. So even if you make it so that overloads are not too hard to pull off, it’s just going to do what the ele can already do in another manner.

The elementalist need the overloads to do something new, like new boons and condi, example: revive allies on water overload instead of more cleanse and healing.

At the end of the day there are a finite amount of ways skills can work in a game. My biggest fear with what your asking in role dilution. How long until every class can do everything and theres no reason to have any diversity at all?

Beyond that somethings, like the water overload converting condis to boons, are useful, new, and probably doable before the game launches. Asking for brand new, custom effects is simply an unrealistic approach at this point. Tempest won’t bring a new role without redeveloping it, but the tools are still there to make old fresh air specs viable again, and put a new spin of classic d/d builds. This is all personal opinion of course, but at this point I just want Tempest to be something decent for HoT, and hope they don’t mess up our next spec so spectacularly.

That’s why they need to introduce new mechanics to the game.
They introduced Slow, Alacrity, Float, and now Reaper has a new minion with a mechanic from Gw1 called Dark Bond.

They can’t add stuff just for one specialization? Just in case someone thinks they can’t, I have a quote from the Chronomancer article when it talks about Alacrity: “Chronomancy is the only specialization allowed access to this powerful effect”
There’s simply no excuse. Yes, at this point it’s unlikely to get new things, but that doesn’t excuse the lack of thought that initially went into the Tempest.