Guild Wars 2

Hi guys,

First of all, while ele is not my main, its the class I enjoy 2nd most (after mesmer).
And seeing how Tempest turned out to be the most underwhelming elite spec revealed so far imo, I guess its my time to rant. There are several threads about this already. But I want to focus on a particular topic as stated in the title.

TEMPEST BRINGS ANYTHING NEW TO THE GAME?

Let me see… nothing.. much. Ok, a moving water field on Warhorn #5 (Water) that might not be not as effective as a stationary long-lasting one.

And let’s not talk about the horrible elite which is a gimmicky copy of Chronomancer’s unique ability to speed up skill recharges.

Let’s review what unique new toys other elite specs bring so far to the game:

- Chronomancer: Alacrity, the ability to speed up skill recharges for themselves and allies around them

- Dragonhunter: F3 Virtue – a group wide frontal blocking shield that moves with the character. Do not confuse this improved F3 virtue with already existing projectile blocking skills. This shield will protect you and allies against both ranged and melee attacks.

- Reaper: Chill condition deals dmg, ok this mechanic is strictly selfish but it does give necromancers back the respect of having great mastery over conditions.

-Revenant/Herald: is an entirely new class with ability to swap the 2nd half of the skillbar, meanwhile Herald provides the 3rd and arguably best method to counter stealth in their skillset (in addition to Ranger’s Sic’Em and Engineer’s Analyze).

- Berserker: launch an enemy to push back nearby enemies. Yep, totally new and awesome tech.

- Daredevil: The elite skill that finishes off enemies. Need I say more?

Also note that all these new and unique mechanics mentioned above compliment the core class very well… giving the ‘oomph’ or ‘wow’ factor when its revealed to us.

Mesmer: skill cooldown manipulation (namely Power Block and Interrupt mechanic in general)
Reaper: threatening conditions
Warrior: hard chaining CCs
Guardian: protect allies through Blocking
Thief: eliminate foes, ending the fight as quickly as possible

Don’t get me wrong. The overload concept is really interesting and it somewhat conveys the “Tempest” violent and wild feel of being a powerful ‘stormcaller’.
However, the implementation can use some tweaking to make it more impact, especially towards damage and offensive support imo.

However, it might be a bit too late for the devs to introduce anything completely new to Tempest now, probably just certain tweaks in numbers. Hopefully, I will be proven wrong.

My suggestions regarding new toys Tempest could have:

1] Homing AoEs: The tech clearly exists (those bee swarm AoEs casted by Mordrem Trolls that follow u and can deal tons of damage? Remember those?)

The class is already known for the capability to provide plenty of AoE dmg fields. But the idea to give it the ability to cast AoEs on the ground, then make them move and track down enemies? That would be so awesome.

2] “Rebound!” saving grace: change the functionality of this elite to:
After activation, during the next 15s, your first interrupted skill will have 50% cooldown reduction. This could totally work for allies too.

Remember just the first skill being interrupted to keep it balanced ofc.
This could work as a counterplay for mesmers using Power Block or the new Daredevil using Distracting Daggers, ultimately spice things up further in combat.

So lets hear u guys opinions on this. Did I miss something unique (some combat mechanic) about Tempest that not already existing in the game?

Aoe stun braking is mostly an tempest only effect. The rev elite spec can do aoe stun braking too but its just not going to happen as much.

A lot of what your saying is new for the other elite spec are in the game already. And what truly new things some of the elite spec get are not comply new in them self.

Moving projectile cc is something ele has in gust for some time mind you not the same as zerk but still very close. CDR for your team is something tempest will have on-top of cronmanser. The aoe moving shield is something rev will get to use. Reaper chill doing dmg really not that new of an effect mobs have been doing this for some time all though its new for players but its still on the lines of fear doing dmg something that necro get. Darv spike from at akkt is the newest effect in the game on-top of evades to heal / removes conditions.

There are lesser effects that only the spec have but even tempest has something on thoughts lines healing ppl with auras is something new (all be it not game making so far). Stronger protection for them self (not a crazy new effect but it is something comply different from other classes).

I would go as far to say most of the new elite spec do not even differ that much from there base classes. When you have a class like ele who dose it all there really not much left to make to push for that very uniquest play type.

(easy to read list becuse no one can read what i put down most of the time lol)

Tempest new effects:
AoE stun brakes for pt.
Shout auras or activation aoe auras that also have a doable effect (just 2 of them ice and earth).
CDR for pt.
Aura application also heals.
Self protection can be up to 40% dmg reductionist from the old 33%.
Moving water field.
Moving pull in.
Fire Tornado that keeps putting out effects (maybe not that new).
Making boons last longer after they have been applied.
RNG projectiles stand storms that move and hit as they go.
An ball lighting attk that act like a pet for a short time when it moves in a stare line attking what gets near it.
A brake bar (some what new mostly ele only new).
A fire field that “moves” after its cast for its duration.
I am not sure if aoe super speed is new.

Jski.6180:

AoE stun brakes for pt.
Shout auras or activation aoe auras that also have a doable effect (just 2 of them ice and earth).
CDR for pt.
Aura application also heals.
Self protection can be up to 40% dmg reductionist from the old 33%.
Moving water field.
Moving pull in.
Fire Tornado that keeps putting out effects (maybe not that new).
Making boons last longer after they have been applied.
RNG projectiles stand storms that move and hit as they go.
An ball lighting attk that act like a pet for a short time when it moves in a stare line attking what gets near it.
A brake bar (some what new mostly ele only new).
A fire field that “moves” after its cast for its duration.
I am not sure if aoe super speed is new.

Thanks for your reply. It seems I did indeed overlook certain new features that Tempest boasts.
I guess I should correct myself when I say Tempest doesn’t bring much new stuff to the game, I really meant something game-changing, something to boast about. But its good to hear some valid counter arguments.

So lets go through your list (I tidy it up for you) one by one.
- AoE stunbreak: is not new. Guardian has been able to do it thru a gm trait (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Indomitable_Courage) with their F3 Virtue. However, Tempest might be able to compete in this role.
- CDR for party: to be fair, yes this is indeed new, but not unique to Tempest and the way it works is very clunky.
- Aurasharing and other related features: ok, I overlooked the aura stuff. Auras are kinda unique to Elementalists, and Tempest will be able to utilize them even further, for example: group application and heal on application. Hopefully auramancers can become a thing with Tempest’s tools.
- Protection boon improved: I totally forgot this one. Yes, this one I give total credit for a new and unique toy Tempest has xD. I’ll be using/abusing this trait a whole lot for sure.
- Boon duration increase after application: this one I’m sceptical. Say if you’re switching to weapons/gear that has +boon duration stat on them, would you then increase the duration of existing boons on you? If the answer is no, then I acknowledge this one.
- Moving water field: acknowledged in my OP.
- Moving AoE that CC multiple targets as it travels: ok, this one is legit but the last time I used it, it’s not very effective, must be why I forgot about it. Haha
- Fire Tornado: the lingering tornado after overload is just a weaker version of your Tornado Elite. The overloading animation is similar to Thief’s Daggerstorm. Not new.
- Dust Storm and Lightning Orb: these warhorn skills do indeed feature new mechanics in their attack animations. But again, their impact remains questionable. We shall see in the next upcoming BWE after some number buffs have been made since the first BWE.
- Break bar: not unique to Tempest at all.
- A cascading Fire Field: this skill clearly uses the same tech as Revenant’s Brick Road skill. You can argue that its unique to Tempest because it’s a Fire field instead of a Lightning Field. But the difference is not that much.
- AoE Superspeed: the AoE application is new, but Superspeed is getting more prevalent among other classes now so it doesn’t stand out as something super unique. It’s a similar to the situation where Guardian can give out AoE Aegis but other classes already have blocks on their own. Not to disregard its usefulness though.

So to sum it up,
Most of the new techs Tempest has are related to the warhorn skills and Aura-related stuff.

But apart from the improved Protection boon, somehow I’m not so thrilled about the rest.

I would like to hear more opinions from you guys. Are these new toys (no how matter potent they are) inspiring for u to try out Tempest, to use Warhorn, or to try an Aura-focused build?

keenlam.4753:

Jski.6180:

AoE stun brakes for pt.
Shout auras or activation aoe auras that also have a doable effect (just 2 of them ice and earth).
CDR for pt.
Aura application also heals.
Self protection can be up to 40% dmg reductionist from the old 33%.
Moving water field.
Moving pull in.
Fire Tornado that keeps putting out effects (maybe not that new).
Making boons last longer after they have been applied.
RNG projectiles stand storms that move and hit as they go.
An ball lighting attk that act like a pet for a short time when it moves in a stare line attking what gets near it.
A brake bar (some what new mostly ele only new).
A fire field that “moves” after its cast for its duration.
I am not sure if aoe super speed is new.

Thanks for your reply. It seems I did indeed overlook certain new features that Tempest boasts.
I guess I should correct myself when I say Tempest doesn’t bring much new stuff to the game, I really meant something game-changing, something to boast about. But its good to hear some valid counter arguments.

So lets go through your list (I tidy it up for you) one by one.
- AoE stunbreak: is not new. Guardian has been able to do it thru a gm trait (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Indomitable_Courage) with their F3 Virtue. However, Tempest might be able to compete in this role.
- CDR for party: to be fair, yes this is indeed new, but not unique to Tempest and the way it works is very clunky.
- Aurasharing and other related features: ok, I overlooked the aura stuff. Auras are kinda unique to Elementalists, and Tempest will be able to utilize them even further, for example: group application and heal on application. Hopefully auramancers can become a thing with Tempest’s tools.
- Protection boon improved: I totally forgot this one. Yes, this one I give total credit for a new and unique toy Tempest has xD. I’ll be using/abusing this trait a whole lot for sure.
- Boon duration increase after application: this one I’m sceptical. Say if you’re switching to weapons/gear that has +boon duration stat on them, would you then increase the duration of existing boons on you? If the answer is no, then I acknowledge this one.
- Moving water field: acknowledged in my OP.
- Moving AoE that CC multiple targets as it travels: ok, this one is legit but the last time I used it, it’s not very effective, must be why I forgot about it. Haha
- Fire Tornado: the lingering tornado after overload is just a weaker version of your Tornado Elite. The overloading animation is similar to Thief’s Daggerstorm. Not new.
- Dust Storm and Lightning Orb: these warhorn skills do indeed feature new mechanics in their attack animations. But again, their impact remains questionable. We shall see in the next upcoming BWE after some number buffs have been made since the first BWE.
- Break bar: not unique to Tempest at all.
- A cascading Fire Field: this skill clearly uses the same tech as Revenant’s Brick Road skill. You can argue that its unique to Tempest because it’s a Fire field instead of a Lightning Field. But the difference is not that much.
- AoE Superspeed: the AoE application is new, but Superspeed is getting more prevalent among other classes now so it doesn’t stand out as something super unique. It’s a similar to the situation where Guardian can give out AoE Aegis but other classes already have blocks on their own. Not to disregard its usefulness though.

So to sum it up,
Most of the new techs Tempest has are related to the warhorn skills and Aura-related stuff.

But apart from the improved Protection boon, somehow I’m not so thrilled about the rest.

I would like to hear more opinions from you guys. Are these new toys (no how matter potent they are) inspiring for u to try out Tempest, to use Warhorn, or to try an Aura-focused build?

I have already acknowledged in a previous thread that tempest does bring some new stuff for the ele. However, the problem is that most of these effects are under-tuned atm. In addition, almost all of these are available for shouts and warhorn, which basically shoehorns you to these choices and limits build diversity.

The big problem with this is that the tempest traits and overloads are incredibly redundant and underwhelming and offer nothing new. And in the end those are the parts of the elite spec that every tempest will always have. The tempest traits are among the worst that I have ever seen and as long as these “toys” are locked behind such an underwhelming spec I won’t be using them.

Okay just let me share my opinion about this topic:
They did a good job on the tempest imo. It is really hard to give a class that already has access to almost all the desired things you want in fights: boons, condis, dps, healing heck! Even small aoe stability.
What the most important things was for ele was to give them more build variety. Currently there is very few variation in effective builds. With the new weapons and traits I can think of much more builds that could have good use. Mainly enhancing the auras is a big thing for me since they are fun and a unique aspect of the game.

Next to that I would like to point out that elite specs are not about bringing in a huge special mechanic that wows you, but rather a different playstyle. The reason they brought in these mechanics for other classes is to keep classes distinct from eachother instead of every becoming capable of doing the same thing.

I hope this cleared some things up. I understand it if you do not like it, but thats the way the devs wanted to do it and it is healthy for the diversion that the game offers.

Greetings, Fvux.

Activating virtue of courage breaks stun and grants stability to nearby allies. Virtue of courage’s passive effect triggers more frequently.
Its aoe stab not aoe break stuns it something that we tested out in spvp right after the stab changes (the ideal was to pop it after ppl get stun to get one more charges out of the effect but sadly it did not work). Only 2 classes can aoe brake stun rev eliet spec being more of if they stun brake they brake others stun and tempest if they use a WH abitly they aoe stun brake 10 icd and the shout eye of the storm that self stun brakes and aoe.

Setting aside the fact that guards have had AoE stun break for ages… The mechanic is incredibly situational and requires either immediate of communication from your group or premonition levels of foresight on your part in order to actually have any effect. And even if you manage to react quickly enough, you might have the great satisfaction of ending a 2s stun after it’s been on your ally for 1.5s.

The V.8759:

Next to that I would like to point out that elite specs are not about bringing in a huge special mechanic that wows you, but rather a different playstyle.

I’m sorry, but when they’ve managed to introduce multiple playstyles within individual specializtions (looking at the 3 distinct lines you can see within the reaper/berzerker/dare-devil/etc traits), the failure to do more than mediocre support through tempest is underwhelming.

Khalic.3561:

Setting aside the fact that guards have had AoE stun break for ages… The mechanic is incredibly situational and requires either immediate of communication from your group or premonition levels of foresight on your part in order to actually have any effect. And even if you manage to react quickly enough, you might have the great satisfaction of ending a 2s stun after it’s been on your ally for 1.5s.

The V.8759:

Next to that I would like to point out that elite specs are not about bringing in a huge special mechanic that wows you, but rather a different playstyle.

I’m sorry, but when they’ve managed to introduce multiple playstyles within individual specializtions (looking at the 3 distinct lines you can see within the reaper/berzerker/dare-devil/etc traits), the failure to do more than mediocre support through tempest is underwhelming.

Last time we tested it (all be it some time ago at this point) it would not brake stun the trick thought about braking stuns vs having stab up is that it save stab ability for when your trying to go though a lot of hard cc. What it dose is counter early one shot stuns.

Jski.6180:

Khalic.3561:

Setting aside the fact that guards have had AoE stun break for ages… The mechanic is incredibly situational and requires either immediate of communication from your group or premonition levels of foresight on your part in order to actually have any effect. And even if you manage to react quickly enough, you might have the great satisfaction of ending a 2s stun after it’s been on your ally for 1.5s.

The V.8759:

Next to that I would like to point out that elite specs are not about bringing in a huge special mechanic that wows you, but rather a different playstyle.

I’m sorry, but when they’ve managed to introduce multiple playstyles within individual specializtions (looking at the 3 distinct lines you can see within the reaper/berzerker/dare-devil/etc traits), the failure to do more than mediocre support through tempest is underwhelming.

Last time we tested it (all be it some time ago at this point) it would not brake stun the trick thought about braking stuns vs having stab up is that it save stab ability for when your trying to go though a lot of hard cc. What it dose is counter early one shot stuns.

Ah, I see what you were saying. Yeah, some preemptive stab is good with enough duration to give a decent window. Tempest doesn’t have that either though.

It would be funny if the main mechanic for one of the spec’s GM traits as well as one of the utilities just flat out didn’t work though.

Khalic.3561:

Jski.6180:

Khalic.3561:

Setting aside the fact that guards have had AoE stun break for ages… The mechanic is incredibly situational and requires either immediate of communication from your group or premonition levels of foresight on your part in order to actually have any effect. And even if you manage to react quickly enough, you might have the great satisfaction of ending a 2s stun after it’s been on your ally for 1.5s.

The V.8759:

Next to that I would like to point out that elite specs are not about bringing in a huge special mechanic that wows you, but rather a different playstyle.

I’m sorry, but when they’ve managed to introduce multiple playstyles within individual specializtions (looking at the 3 distinct lines you can see within the reaper/berzerker/dare-devil/etc traits), the failure to do more than mediocre support through tempest is underwhelming.

Last time we tested it (all be it some time ago at this point) it would not brake stun the trick thought about braking stuns vs having stab up is that it save stab ability for when your trying to go though a lot of hard cc. What it dose is counter early one shot stuns.

Ah, I see what you were saying. Yeah, some preemptive stab is good with enough duration to give a decent window. Tempest doesn’t have that either though.

It would be funny if the main mechanic for one of the spec’s GM traits as well as one of the utilities just flat out didn’t work though.

Tempest dose have the abitly to give there pt stab with WH fire 4 and AoE. So its a self stun brake then a pt stun brake and a stab, protection.

Jski.6180:

Khalic.3561:

Jski.6180:

Khalic.3561:

Setting aside the fact that guards have had AoE stun break for ages… The mechanic is incredibly situational and requires either immediate of communication from your group or premonition levels of foresight on your part in order to actually have any effect. And even if you manage to react quickly enough, you might have the great satisfaction of ending a 2s stun after it’s been on your ally for 1.5s.

The V.8759:

Next to that I would like to point out that elite specs are not about bringing in a huge special mechanic that wows you, but rather a different playstyle.

I’m sorry, but when they’ve managed to introduce multiple playstyles within individual specializtions (looking at the 3 distinct lines you can see within the reaper/berzerker/dare-devil/etc traits), the failure to do more than mediocre support through tempest is underwhelming.

Last time we tested it (all be it some time ago at this point) it would not brake stun the trick thought about braking stuns vs having stab up is that it save stab ability for when your trying to go though a lot of hard cc. What it dose is counter early one shot stuns.

Ah, I see what you were saying. Yeah, some preemptive stab is good with enough duration to give a decent window. Tempest doesn’t have that either though.

It would be funny if the main mechanic for one of the spec’s GM traits as well as one of the utilities just flat out didn’t work though.

Tempest dose have the abitly to give there pt stab with WH fire 4 and AoE. So its a self stun brake then a pt stun brake and a stab, protection.

So our AoE stun break (GM trait investment) is only truly effective every 75s when we can cover it by popping and sharing our own armour of earth? Which becomes even more mandatory if you want this combo?

C’mon man. It’s possible, but it’s hardly reliable or quick. Nor does it accomplish anything that couldn’t be done easier by a guard. The original point of the thread was new and interesting tech/mechanics that the tempest would bring to the table, and this is not it.

Khalic.3561:

Jski.6180:

Khalic.3561:

Jski.6180:

Khalic.3561:

Setting aside the fact that guards have had AoE stun break for ages… The mechanic is incredibly situational and requires either immediate of communication from your group or premonition levels of foresight on your part in order to actually have any effect. And even if you manage to react quickly enough, you might have the great satisfaction of ending a 2s stun after it’s been on your ally for 1.5s.

The V.8759:

Next to that I would like to point out that elite specs are not about bringing in a huge special mechanic that wows you, but rather a different playstyle.

I’m sorry, but when they’ve managed to introduce multiple playstyles within individual specializtions (looking at the 3 distinct lines you can see within the reaper/berzerker/dare-devil/etc traits), the failure to do more than mediocre support through tempest is underwhelming.

Last time we tested it (all be it some time ago at this point) it would not brake stun the trick thought about braking stuns vs having stab up is that it save stab ability for when your trying to go though a lot of hard cc. What it dose is counter early one shot stuns.

Ah, I see what you were saying. Yeah, some preemptive stab is good with enough duration to give a decent window. Tempest doesn’t have that either though.

It would be funny if the main mechanic for one of the spec’s GM traits as well as one of the utilities just flat out didn’t work though.

Tempest dose have the abitly to give there pt stab with WH fire 4 and AoE. So its a self stun brake then a pt stun brake and a stab, protection.

So our AoE stun break (GM trait investment) is only truly effective every 75s when we can cover it by popping and sharing our own armour of earth? Which becomes even more mandatory if you want this combo?

C’mon man. It’s possible, but it’s hardly reliable or quick. Nor does it accomplish anything that couldn’t be done easier by a guard. The original point of the thread was new and interesting tech/mechanics that the tempest would bring to the table, and this is not it.

If your going for that build your more likely to get it ever 60 sec and if you go after the passive effect you can get it ever 30 sec but that its has kind of a high skill cap to get it that often.

Its not important how hard something is to do its more about if its something you can do as you where talking about. I have given you something NEW tempest brings and they are many things. Just becuse some may be hard to pull off or you do not like it dose not invalidate what is new or not.