Guild Wars 2

Even if I am naked, the damage should not go over 5k, maybe 10k if its a critical hit. But 17k is ridiculous!

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z110/phantom_ko/gw047_zpsccc5fdfe.jpg

He does more damage than a trebuche or catapult, that’s just wrong.

Elemental against thief sucks rly hard atm. They just spam their spells and have to worry nothing. And the problem is in the thief forum there are so many whines lol

SPAM?? Lol, look at the combat log. That one spell dealt enough damage that it would kill me outright anyway…

Ok sry, they just put their faces on the keyboard.

the profession has been pwnd!

Just so you know, rangers can also use haste and kill you just as quickly.

number 2, number 2, number 2 like a boss…

Thieves do 3 times our dps with no delayed or directional spells….yeah that sounds fair.

Pfffft, you totally should’ve dodged that invisible sin. L2P nub!

sarcasm off

Ahem.

“l2p noob”
“you need to switch attunements”
“you’re just bad”
“elementalists aren’t meant to be played as conventional mages, drop your dps build and spec for earth/water”
“never had any problem, ele is balanced/op and I can one hit KO the entire map with MS”
…etc.

It’s fine! You’re just “a baddie!”

When played with madskillz, ele is the most OP class in the game.

Now seriously, it’s akittenshame we are literally forced to spec FULL tank just to survive these one hit wonders.

I going to chime in and say,

“you mad Bro?”

“Clearly you did EVERYTHING wrong. I won’t bother specifying what exactly, since you know, you are BAD for not knowing it for yourself! My magical build with pr0 skills ensure this never happens to me which I can not prove with any video or anything like that. Trust me bro.”

Vissarion.6509:

number 2, number 2, number 2 like a boss…

Looking at the combat log they at least got utterly destroyed by someone putting in a little bit of effort. Number 5, move around behind them then number 1.

Number two, number two, number two and he’s down. Like a boss!

You should’ve used magical dragon spell to foresee his attacks and act accordingly, you’re such a bad player.

“’elementalists aren’t meant to be played as conventional mages, drop your dps build and spec for earth/water’”

BUT THIS ACTUALLY IS THE SOLUTION.

Even though it is plain to see, thieves are a bit ridiculously easy to play. They need a nerf straight to the face.

I’m about to shut this thread down, you ready? Here it goes!

There is no way a thief hit you for 17k in one hit “equally geared” in WvWvW.
The only reason he hit you that hard was because your probably a fresh 80, and he probably has one of the most powerful endgame weapons to hit you for that much.

Not saying anything about one being op/up and all that, but what level are you? I’ve hit some upscaled people in WvW for huge amounts because I’m an 80 and have decent gear and they don’t.

I’m an elementalist btw.

While I (as an Elementalist player myself) totally agree that this is too much, I’m interested in how the orbs of power were distributed at that time. Because you have to take the stat boost from these into account that the thief likely had, so this situation would most likely never occur in sPVP, which is the only area in the game which Anet really tries to balance anyway.

Agreed. 3 orbs + geared 80 versus undergeared boosted player = lots of damage.

So we are forced to spec earth & water, we aren’t allowed to choose?

I agree with the posters above me. While Elementalists absolutely, without a doubt need some serious love, I call either ignorance or trolling from the OP. There is no way an equally geared player hit for that much damage right off the bat. Either the OP was a fresh 80 with crap gear, was lower level than the Thief, or there were other third party forces in action (such as orbs).

While its fun to rag on the profession you play and it makes you feel more comfortable (i.e. “It’s not my fault I died, I’m an amazing player! It was all because the profession I play is horrible!!!1”) the fact of the matter is Elementalists can be serious contenders in the right hands. Like I said before we absolutely need some serious attention and we are definitely one of the lower tier professions right now, but the fact still remains that we are not solely restricted by the limitations of our class. Making fun of Eles is fun and all, and I do it myself in guild chat all the time, but try not to blow things out of proportion here guys.

Even if the thief had 3 orbs and the OP was a level 2 in WvW, there’s no excuse for having a class have a single ability that requires no set up do almost double a classes natural HP pool. None.

Prism.5649:

I agree with the posters above me. While Elementalists absolutely, without a doubt need some serious love, I call either ignorance or trolling from the OP. There is no way an equally geared player hit for that much damage right off the bat. Either the OP was a fresh 80 with crap gear, was lower level than the Thief, or there were other third party forces in action (such as orbs).

While its fun to rag on the profession you play and it makes you feel more comfortable (i.e. “It’s not my fault I died, I’m an amazing player! It was all because the profession I play is horrible!!!1”) the fact of the matter is Elementalists can be serious contenders in the right hands. Like I said before we absolutely need some serious attention and we are definitely one of the lower tier professions right now, but the fact still remains that we are not solely restricted by the limitations of our class. Making fun of Eles is fun and all, and I do it myself in guild chat all the time, but try not to blow things out of proportion here guys.

While I agree that an ele if well played can be at least on par with many other classes, I think, in this thread, we are mostly making fun of the forum trolls that come around once in a while and tell us that the elementalist is just fine, maybe a little OP even.

Oh and tbh – the only truly competitive ele spec atm is full tank with some minor variations on that theme, so it’s quite far from balanced.

Rainsfords.7419:

Even if the thief had 3 orbs and the OP was a level 2 in WvW, there’s no excuse for having a class have a single ability that requires no set up do almost double a classes natural HP pool. None.

This. If gear meant so much in WvW – then what is the use of upscaling? Nothing justifies this kind of disgusting damage (with ONE ability press).

Nothing.

lol its a thief, what do you expect, they are lol one button i win class…..

I don’t think anyone here is saying things don’t need adjusting but when you come in and say Class A did Y Damage to me and don’t give a full story then you are helping NO ONE! My Meteor Shower wrecks absolute havoc a group of upleveled/undergeared players. Maybe not 17k+ damage in 1 blow but I see 6k+ (talking about glass cannon spec with 3 orbs) meteors hitting multiple people over and over again while I’m safely hidden behind a wall. The amount of damage 1 full round of a MS can do to a group of 20 players could be considered highly OP if people didn’t want to look at all the facts.

If you want balance then give all of the facts instead of cherry picking the ones you want to give. It doesn’t make your argument any stronger by doing what the OP did.

“’elementalists aren’t meant to be played as conventional mages, drop your dps build and spec for earth/water’”

BUT THIS ACTUALLY IS THE SOLUTION.

Question, do you realise how broken this train of thought is?

I know how your supposed to survive that ! Stand there holding your little ELE earth shield cantrip ! in the corner with your back against the wall , full vit toughness gear of course.

Celine.3287:

Ahem.

“l2p noob”
“you need to switch attunements”
“you’re just bad”
“elementalists aren’t meant to be played as conventional mages, drop your dps build and spec for earth/water”
“never had any problem, ele is balanced/op and I can one hit KO the entire map with MS”
…etc.

uhhh this must be a kyros quotes or other of that mindset ;D
haha

elchulo.3148:

Thieves do 3 times our dps with no delayed or directional spells….yeah that sounds fair.

actually i find the dmg of them to be about right for their class, maybe a tiny bit too much burst on it though.
i think that the ele’s dmg should be boosted to match those burstes so that if we see them or they kitten up we 1-2shot them as well and ofc does TONS of dmg to everything we can keep on distance when we aint focused and full dmg build

Artorous.8573:

I don’t think anyone here is saying things don’t need adjusting but when you come in and say Class A did Y Damage to me and don’t give a full story then you are helping NO ONE! My Meteor Shower .

wait WAIT WAIT!!!
did you just.. yes i think you did..
you just set MS which is a TARGET ground aoe that takes kitten FOUR (4!!) seconds to even cast, makes a GIANT!! big mark on the ground, then takes an additional 1 sec to start hitting, THEN got an 1-5 seconds drop rate before you reasonably get hit by ONE meteor which THEN if you are THAT kitten slow in your head your still standing in it you can then just do ONE dodge roll and be out of it!.

with an INSTANT spell which comes out of STEALTH!!! that does 3 TIMES the dmg! as your argument for the dmg being respectively balanced?!

christ man who the HELL got that kind of total lack of ANY sense ?! .. must be one of the kyros friends there…. christ man…. get some decent since..

even if you compared it to arcane blast and arcane blast was doing 17k+ instead of the 3k dmg it would still be a lower thing since you would be able to see him or the shot come and have a chance to actually do a dodge or reflect spell..

Completely agree with OP. Thieves are stupid overpowered. I took 15k damage from the same skill while I was wearing all exalted knight gear (that’s the one with toughness) and was speced 30 into earth.

Regarding this damage – I once went with my mesmer to jumping puzzle at eternal. Near the entrance I was one hitted by thief – I had 21k HP (unfortunately I didn’t take a screenshot). I do not claim there was no my fault in it cause I wasn’t paying enough attention to my surroundings maybe but I just wonder if I noticed him earlier would I be able to survive?

Yes sucks. I don’t really know what to do. D/D is fun to play, but it’s always same. One burst combo, couple dodge, mist form and just try to get away. I got bored dying and just stacked vitality, toughness and little bit under 1k healing power. I don’t do any damage, i still take huge crits, but now ranger pet can’t solo me.

W2G Erebus, completely disregard the rest of what I said and go with what you did. I can use MS without having to worry about being retaliated against in any way by standing on a wall out of LoS. Each meteor can hit multiple people for large sums of damage and be a complete game changer that can make/break a siege defense. I also like how you completely disregard the portion about me saying things need to be better balanced.

In a siege defense it is quite easy to lay down a MS on a group of people and have them not move out of the way because they are focused elsewhere. I, in no way, said MS was overpowered. I said it can give the illusion of being overpowered if conditions line up, much like they probably did in the OP’s picture. Without having the full story it is mindless QQ that does absolutely NO GOOD to anyone and will NOT result in any form of balance.

I have the achievement for doing over 300k damage in 1 hit. Now that’s a HUGE amount of damage and, if I posted a screenshot with nothing but the amount of damage being done then the QQ about Ele’s being OP would happen in no time flat. Now, if you take into account that damage being done was to a critter then the picture becomes clearer. Do you see where I’m going with this. You need the full picture to understand what happened in order to find a reasonable solution.

17k damage vs 173 – seems legit

Yeah, it sucks to be us. Welcome to club Elem.

Artorous.8573:

W2G Erebus, completely disregard the rest of what I said and go with what you did. I can use MS without having to worry about being retaliated against in any way by standing on a wall out of LoS. Each meteor can hit multiple people for large sums of damage and be a complete game changer that can make/break a siege defense. I also like how you completely disregard the portion about me saying things need to be better balanced.

In a siege defense it is quite easy to lay down a MS on a group of people and have them not move out of the way because they are focused elsewhere. I, in no way, said MS was overpowered. I said it can give the illusion of being overpowered if conditions line up, much like they probably did in the OP’s picture. Without having the full story it is mindless QQ that does absolutely NO GOOD to anyone and will NOT result in any form of balance.

I have the achievement for doing over 300k damage in 1 hit. Now that’s a HUGE amount of damage and, if I posted a screenshot with nothing but the amount of damage being done then the QQ about Ele’s being OP would happen in no time flat. Now, if you take into account that damage being done was to a critter then the picture becomes clearer. Do you see where I’m going with this. You need the full picture to understand what happened in order to find a reasonable solution.

again WAIT WAIT WAIT WHAT!?!
out of LOS?! then you can’t cast on them either, if you can cast on them they can cast on you, if i SEE a ele trying to cast meteor storm that ele either cancel the cast or DIES the full 4 seconds from starting the cast till you can move again is more then enough to kill the squicy ele when his standing still and anyone with a ranged weap will be able to hit him.

the only reason you think this is valid is if your fighting undergeared people thats been uplvled and even here if they had half a brain you would be a gonna before the ms was done casting:
basicly its like a selfroot 4sec o.O add on that any decent dps and you will be downed´.

now ms’ dmg is quite low vs endgeared people i am fully dmg specced with 3925 att and 73 crit chance and around 80 crit dmg; i have seen worriars, thiefs, mesm, guardians, even in some rare cases rangers and engineers standing on the walls in my FULL meteor storm and simply ignoring it becouse the dmg of it was simply too low to do a significant chunk into their hp (especially if they just got a bit of support heal up their then its really sad to look at.) and YES in general people are too stupid to focus you while you cast ms but that just means your ms is simply not a big enough danger to them and thats why they havent taken the time to kill you.
i have tried on several occasions that a ranger, theif, mesm or worriar got tired of me and waited for me to initiate ms (this LOCKS YOU UP for a good full second where no matter how crazy you spam that dodge it will not do anything) and then just burst me down within 1-2 seconds (all of these classes can melt through my 11k hp and low though in no time when they want too and are specced to do so.)

then ofc you could spec defensive to survive those 3 second so you can break your ms and with little luck get away but then your already weat nudle ms will hit even less then what it did on these people making it even more useless and letting people ignore it even More.

the only people in endgear the ms is actually doing real dmg too which it is a danger too is other dps build ele xD and those are the people you will see run off when you hit it, but seriously the dps isnt anywhere near close to ok when the only class which fear it is your own duo to the rediculess little survive we got if we wish to do ANY remotely noticeble dmg to other classes.

ps: even in this spec i see myself hitting worriars,guardians and thief for less then 5% of their hp per hit in some cases -_- while they will chuk a good 20-50% of mine depending on which skill they hit me with…

so all in all i did read the entire thing you wrote but your argument was soooo far out it couldnt even be related too by the ingame mechanics

Ok, you’re not bright, Erebus, or you have no comprehension skills to speak of. I said MS can give the illusion of being Overpowered if the stars align like they did with the OP’s picture. Without knowing everything that attributed to that damage it is worthless QQ that accomplishes nothing. What part of this are you not understanding? I know the damage from MS can be avoided, that isn’t the point I am making.

A Glass Cannon spec/geared 80 Thief against an undergeared/upleveled glass spec Ele can lead to some huge numbers. In no way am I saying Thieves don’t need tweaks. I want you to reread that last sentence at least 50 times because you can’t seem to grasp simple concepts. What I am saying is without knowing the full story as to why that damage was done and how it was achieved, it is worthless QQ that will accomplish absolutely nothing. Should anyone be able to hit anyone else for 17k+ damage? Of course not, but just posting a screenshot of the damage with no additional information gets us nowhere.

Just by looking at the picture i can already say that the thiefs side had 0 orbs and the OP has probably rare lvl 80 crafted glass cannon gear.

GankSinatra.2653:

“’elementalists aren’t meant to be played as conventional mages, drop your dps build and spec for earth/water’”

BUT THIS ACTUALLY IS THE SOLUTION.

Question, do you realise how broken this train of thought is?

Why would it be broken? Frankly, I’d give people with less than 20k health a popup window when entering pvp, saying “You’re now entering a highly hazardous zone with inadequate defenses. Are you certain you wish to proceed?” (then I’d do the same for Orr :p).

People enter pvp with full Berserker and expect to destroy everything. They will – until something sneezes in their general direction. Even better, they end up with utilites that increase damage, such as Arcane Power, while completely ignoring defenses like Mist Form.

Don’t get me wrong, that 17k hit is insane and definitely over the top, however it came to be. All I’m saying is, Elementalist isn’t as weak as people make it sound. If you build for full damage, expect to die a lot. If, however, you also take care about your defense, you’ll live longer, but deal less damage. You can’t have the cake and eat it.

At Nel, after looking at it closer I can see that he indeed doesn’t have orbs as the OP’s side does. Can’t really tell much about the gear though. Most crafted gear looks the same. I do know it’s not Invader gear though. I know that look at least. ;-)

i think the issue here is another example of poor risk vs reward, the thief in this case has gone full damaging build with little focus on passive defense

elementalists are not privileged to this luxury, especially in a situation where changing builds is so costly and pvp is shared with pve

this is also another example of POOR WvWvW scaling, that should not happen even if that player is level 2

madatom.5218:

i think the issue here is another example of poor risk vs reward, the thief in this case has gone full damaging build with little focus on passive defense

elementalists are not privileged to this luxury, especially in a situation where changing builds is so costly and pvp is shared with pve

Neither is that thief. If he goes against anything built untraditionally, such as lightning hammer elementalist or heavy melee mesmer, he’ll be destroyed in a couple of seconds. It’s just that the perception is skewed to the receiving end (which also means that very same thief will come here, crying how elementalists/mesmers/whatever are overpowered, because they could so easily destroy his one button spam).

tufy.7859:

Why would it be broken? Frankly, I’d give people with less than 20k health a popup window when entering pvp, saying “You’re now entering a highly hazardous zone with inadequate defenses. Are you certain you wish to proceed?” (then I’d do the same for Orr :p).

People enter pvp with full Berserker and expect to destroy everything. They will – until something sneezes in their general direction. Even better, they end up with utilites that increase damage, such as Arcane Power, while completely ignoring defenses like Mist Form.

Don’t get me wrong, that 17k hit is insane and definitely over the top, however it came to be. All I’m saying is, Elementalist isn’t as weak as people make it sound. If you build for full damage, expect to die a lot. If, however, you also take care about your defense, you’ll live longer, but deal less damage. You can’t have the cake and eat it.

What’s the point of telling people “Hey guys you can specialize in these 5 trees, pick whatever appeals to you most” if you have to follow it up with “Just as long as you pick Earth or Water, otherwise you’ll just be free kills for everybody!”

A class like thief often specs glass cannon too, and they have the same low health as us, and yes I know a glass cannon thief can die very easy, has counters, etc. The thing is, a glass cannon thief can work, because they have the combination of incredible burst damage, and some defensive tools (such as stealth) to fall back on.

Why can the same not be true for Elementalist? Why are we essentially forced to spec defensive or mostly be a free kill?

For starters the thief has the buff which is given when your outmanned, it’s something like 33% more damage exp and karma.

The people trying to rationalize and justify this are causing me great amusement.

What’s the point of telling people “Hey guys you can specialize in these 5 trees, pick whatever appeals to you most” if you have to follow it up with “Just as long as you pick Earth or Water, otherwise you’ll just be free kills for everybody!”

Just because you can spec into something, it doesn’t mean you should, there’s a time and place for everything. Consider double dagger elementalist – sure, it’s great fun in the open world and the burst can be considerable, but when you get into a WvW tower siege, it’s completely useless. Same with Staff Mesmer – awesome build, amazing damage output, but when you face the door of a keep, all those conditions don’t do jack and your autoattack is… well, let’s just say it’s not so very good :p

Can you spec for a glass cannon elementalist? Of course. Can you succeed? Yup, in fact it may well be the best spec for WvW keep defense with staff, where you’re highly unlikely to face a one trick pony in direct combat. It’s just not the spec of choice for open combat, where you’re more likely to get attacked. At the very minimum, I’d go for toughness and vitality gear just to prevent those sorts of instant kills. Even if it buys you just a second, it can mean the difference between victory and defeat.

Do note that I said the same about the thief – sure, he can oneshoot people with low health, but what’s he going to do if he faces someone that can mitigate his damage and go immune for a few seconds? Game over, because he’s a one trick pony that gets slaughtered as soon as that trick fails.

My solution to this? Spec as you wish, but carry two gears, one for WvW sieges (glass canon), one for open combat (defensive). Also, remember that you can swap utilities when out of combat – you can go from full offense to full defense in a matter of seconds – and those seconds will save your life more often than you can ever imagine.

I can see that different people have different view points and arguments, but the problem here is very fundamental. He did MORE damage than a SIEGE weapon, which do you think hurts more? Getting stabbed by a knife or getting crushed by a piece of boulder flying through the air?

2 words: arcane. shield.

go dual dagger.

laugh as your thief oppoenent gets zapped for 2k damage after wasting half his initiative trying to break said shield.

permaCC him for 5 seconds while killing him.

laugh again as you collect your free kill… honestly, it’s almost as one-sided as fighting a staff elementalist in a 1v1…

wertyuio.8630:

2 words: arcane. shield.

go dual dagger.

laugh as your thief oppoenent gets zapped for 2k damage after wasting half his initiative trying to break said shield.

permaCC him for 5 seconds while killing him.

laugh again as you collect your free kill… honestly, it’s almost as one-sided as fighting a staff elementalist in a 1v1…

he will 1 shot you… doesnt matter if you had a shield of any sort (i assume your talking about static field if it should stun and zap him) your still dead in 1 hit with 17k dmg..

if you mean go full out tank to survive the first hit then there is a chance he will not just rolf you if his bad, but then he can always disengage and run with easy. and to be fair if you start the fight with less then 20% hp left then he gotta be REALLY freakisly bad not to win it.