Guild Wars 2

I have noticed recently many complaints about DD ele and its survivability. I have also noticed many over inflated ego amongst this community most thinking they are “god mode”. Perhaps I have played long enough to see the flaws or have played enough good players to see the shortcomings. Either way we aren’t unbeatable and there is more whining than learning going on here. Lets change that.

Mobility-

Ele running DD have very strong mobility we all know that. This is usually the chief concern of those trying to “beat” a DD ele. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ride_the_Lightning is the centerpiece of DD mobility. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_Speed to a lesser degree also attributes to this plus access to nearly unlimited swiftness on many builds makes DD a hard one to catch.

However this class is far from unbeatable in this area. The absolute best way to deal with ele is to use http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Immobilize during RTL. The reason for this is there is no real counter. RTL once interrupted is over. Even if the immobile is cleansed the skill will end. From there you can DPS cc Etc.

Healing-

Eles in general scale well with healing I won’t go into all the math but yes eles can heal a great amount. The best counter to healing is dps plain and simple. Most of the time pressure will counter healing but the variety of heals ele have most players feel like they cant. Truth is if your speced for some type of survivability build yourself then your not going all that much dps likely. It will become a war of attrition. Until one of you slips up or gives up there wont be an end.

If you do have the dps for it the best times to burn down an ele are right after water attunement and after using a heal skill (if the ele is using http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_restoration its still right after water). Why then? Because the ele likely just burned their healing skills and burned their cleanses. Most ele try to create some level of separation after this if they are being pressured. Don’t let it happen. Stick to them and continue your dps. Expect the RTL counter it and continue dps. Letting up is the mistake so don’t make it. This is the best time to apply conditions cc etc etc. The safety net is gone and for most builds this is the place where cantrips get used. The goal is to force this to happen.

By supplying steady burst at the right times you can burn down the DD ele or at least force the use of survival tools.

One note: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ether_Renewal is the strongest (in terms of raw healing and condition removal) skill we ele have. However its pretty easy to interrupt. The animation is like a long bent over crouch. Its relatively easy to spot.

Cantrips-

for those who don’t know here’s the link (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cantrip). Now for many this is the bread and butter of ele survival. There isn’t much you can do to counter cantrips and honestly you goal should be to get the ele to use them. Why? So they have one less tool on the table. Cantrips by nature have long cool downs. The decision to use one indicates that the ele is being pressured into it.

One note to remember cantrips break stun but they don’t break immobilize (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Fire being the exception but if there are many dots on the target ele there is no guarantee it will be the one removed).

DPS-

Ele dps combo is fairly predcitable. Most players will use these skills in this order usually http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ride_the_Lightning to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Updraft attune fire http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_Speed to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fire_Grab to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ring_of_Fire attune earth http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnetic_Grasp to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Earthquake to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Churning_Earth

There are some variations but this is basically it.

Countering is is not complex at all. You can dodge the first 2 skills because RTL is not instant. Dodging RTL in most cases will put you out of position of updraft if you roll backward.

Burning Speed has a 600 range and 240 aoe taking a few steps backward can help you avoid this if its right after the dodge. If it does hit you prepare yourself. It auto faces and set ups for fire grab. However here’s the thing about fire grab. The cone is garbage and if you move some its likely to miss.

Then you have ring of fire to magnetic grasp (produces http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fire_Shield fyi). A litte hint Magnetic Grasp is a pretty slow projectile that doesn’t follow so in many cases even without dodging you can side step it.

Where most players get caught is the earth quake churning earth combo. Honestly dont waist the dodge on earthquake if you can manage to dodge it. Don’t stun break. Most of the time its ok to eat the dps from it. Churning earth on the other hand hits hard. Most players try to walk out of the churning earth circle. Most ele carry http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Flash just of the reason. Not only can you not see the circle anymore it can be cast just as earth ends not interrupting the cast..

There are 2 ways to deal with this. first is interrupt the cast. The window is huge at 3 seconds. So you can use one of many interrupts and cancel it. However the best way to counter it is to simply count to 2 and a half and dodge. If you do this while walking out of the circle you’ll likely get the ele to burn a cantrip at the same time. Learn the time it takes to cast and you probably wont ever get hit buy this skill while you have endurance again.

Some more dps minded ele will use skills like http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Wave which can do good dps. However its predictable since most players will look to use such blast finishers in fire fields ie ring of fire burning speed.

Range/Kiting-

Ok so lets say you don’t care if the ele runs away or you have a ranged immobilize with a fast projectile speed or one that’s instant. Ele can be kited. the max range on DD ele weapon set for sustained dps is http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vapor_Blade at 600. If your’e outside of that you could simply kite the ele. While its true ele has many gap closers all of them are counter able. Most players will not exploit this fact. I personally find rifles to be the best weapon to do this on whether warrior or engineer. No matter the range weapon its possible to kite an ele by dodging gap closers and crippling often.

(Note I have and usually beat ele I do this to on warrior with the proper traits).

Shocking Aura-

Easiest way to counter this nifty skill is to switch to range weapon and move out of melee. Aura only works in melee so its easy to counter.

Mist form (downed skill 2)

Simply immobilize once they go into mist form.

Last Notes-

I am not perfect so I may have missed things or there may be disagreement. TBH from the first time i played DD I have been wondering how to counter it. Many of these strategies have worked for me. I find warrior (Rifle/Hammer) to be the best overall when traited but any class can work of course. I personally feel that the best way to counter a DD ele is to know the class inside out. Much like countering a mesmer its about know where the limitations are.

Please add advice. I don’t want this to break out into argument. I think its better to educate than to argue.

Great minds think alike lol.

Been spending a few days writing out tips and tricks on defeating a did ele…but you beat me to it rofl (might post mine in the wvw section)

1more small tip, people need to realise that most eles are running in PvT ( power, vitality, toughness) armor and cleric Jewellery (power toughness healing) making our survivability a bit better (Gear choices are there for a reason)…

Anyway, i +1 this thread, great work on it

I don’t understand why people lately are finding D/D to be OP in terms of survivability. S/D is better at that, given there are more means of healing and toughness. People just pick D/D because it is “cleaner” most likely. The fast paced style.

S/D is an odd mix of very slow (fire/earth), to very fast (air), which in the end will make your brain unhappy and likely bleed.

D/D is the smooth choice, which feels natural and rewarding to play.

If a good D/D will whoop your but(t), a good S/D will just as easily. There are just far less of them around lately, and therefore D/D is being singled out as the villain.

Is this for WvW or sPvP?

WvW
While I agree with this to an extent; You won’t beat a D/D bunker ele who KNOWS what they’re doing. The spec is just so efficient at virtually everything

sPvP
Agreed completely. D/D ele’s in PvP are fine where they are. They might take a bit more hassle than other classes; but they’re in a good spot

@Jay.3284 Killing a bunker ele 1v1 in WvW is unlikely but your not likely to get beat either. 2 v 1 should end with the bunker ele downed if either player knows what they are doing. I think we need to remember the goal of a bunker is to survive and it should be good at it.

TheGuy.3568:

@Jay.3284 Killing a bunker ele 1v1 in WvW is unlikely but your not likely to get beat either. 2 v 1 should end with the bunker ele downed if either player knows what they are doing. I think we need to remember the goal of a bunker is to survive and it should be good at it.

If you know how to build good bunker (not soldier’s + cleric’s) you can have so much damage for burst spec it’s almost unbelievable for other classes.

haviz.1340:

TheGuy.3568:

@Jay.3284 Killing a bunker ele 1v1 in WvW is unlikely but your not likely to get beat either. 2 v 1 should end with the bunker ele downed if either player knows what they are doing. I think we need to remember the goal of a bunker is to survive and it should be good at it.

If you know how to build good bunker (not soldier’s + cleric’s) you can have so much damage for burst spec it’s almost unbelievable for other classes.

That’s not a bunker; that’s a balanced build.

haviz.1340:

TheGuy.3568:

@Jay.3284 Killing a bunker ele 1v1 in WvW is unlikely but your not likely to get beat either. 2 v 1 should end with the bunker ele downed if either player knows what they are doing. I think we need to remember the goal of a bunker is to survive and it should be good at it.

If you know how to build good bunker (not soldier’s + cleric’s) you can have so much damage for burst spec it’s almost unbelievable for other classes.

DD ele should not have any form a burst that is not counter able. I went pretty extensively over the move set. to have relatively strong burst on bunker would require a good bit of might stacking. This is easily countered by not allowing the ele to have both the dps and the stack. Pull/kite the ele out of the fire field or simply dodge the entire combo.

Jay.3284:

…The spec is just so efficient at virtually everything…

Actually there is always a drawback in every build. As mentioned above, lots of Eles (me included when I’m playing D/D) rely on survivability and have the utility bar (nearly) full of cantrips.

When it comes to the equip you will mainly find Vitality/Toughness/Healing, Toughness/Boon Duration/Healing or something similar… Especially since daphoenix has written his guide resulting in lots of (some good but more bad) copy-cats, you won’t find lots of diversity there.

To really have a high survivability, most of us decrease our dmg, so it takes a lot of time for us to deal dmg, especially when our one efficient dmg combo is being dodged.

So if you are not running through every fire field or get lots of bleeding stacks from churning earth, know how to remove conditions, don’t love to hit Eles with an aura up, etc. etc. see above… you should be able to heal away the dealt dmg easily. So a fight between a good Ele and any good other player often results in an endless fight until someone’s allies arrive.

That’s why lots of Eles also work a lot with taunting to make people loose their patience and forget about e.g. auras and to keep their distance when it is necessary. The fact that Eles have been considered UP and seen as free badges in WvWvW for a very long time helps a lot making that work.

How to beat an ele:

1) learn to evade long range RTL
2) keep 1 stun break at hand
3) learn to roll churning earth…its easy really
4) force them to “need some skill” so they have to interrupt their fave cycle….
5) if you leave the fight to heal (or stealth) they can heal too…..its not that the game must freeze for the ele while you recover -.-, you are doing the same….
6) stun/daze (look at glitched skills thread)

Its quite easy >.>

Note as i proved ppl saying ele is godmode are not ego players, but thieves pretending to play eles…..

Check their profiles really…..

The simple fact the eles feel the need to offer help that is obviously not needed vs other classes proves that something ist wrong. I saw the same thing in the mesmer and thief forums before both classes were heavily nerfed.

How about this:
If it is so easy to beat a DD, you could simply offer to duel a DD ele with an other class and show us how easy it is. Tips like: Immobilize the ride the lightning and interrupt the heal are nice in theory but there are just to many setups that do not have those abilites. In WvW a good DD ele is the most overpowered class I can imagine: Decent damage, good condition removal, very good mitigation, probably the best heals out of any class and the option to always run if things go bad. One of my friends plays a DD ele and frequently attacks groups of 2 and 3 players and either wins, or if they are good at least escapes without a problem. He says that he does not remember the last time he lost a 1vs1.

Could you at least name a spec and utility setup for every class that has at least a chance to kill a good DD ele (this should include tools to prevent thre ele from running if things go bad)? My main is a necro and in my usual condition setup with staff/scepter-dagger there is no way in hell I can beat a decent ele because they have just to much condtion removal. I usually just do not even try to stay and fight any more and just try to escape to the next friendly keep, because even if he is bad and I actually manage to get him in trouble he will just run and there is nothing I can do about it.

Thanos.2970:

The simple fact the eles feel the need to offer help that is obviously not needed vs other classes proves that something ist wrong. I saw the same thing in the mesmer and thief forums before both classes were heavily nerfed.

How about this:
If it is so easy to beat a DD, you could simply offer to duel a DD ele with an other class and show us how easy it is. Tips like: Immobilize the ride the lightning and interrupt the heal are nice in theory but there are just to many setups that do not have those abilites. In WvW a good DD ele is the most overpowered class I can imagine: Decent damage, good condition removal, very good mitigation, probably the best heals out of any class and the option to always run if things go bad. One of my friends plays a DD ele and frequently attacks groups of 2 and 3 players and either wins, or if they are good at least escapes without a problem. He says that he does not remember the last time he lost a 1vs1.

Could you at least name a spec and utility setup for every class that has at least a chance to kill a good DD ele (this should include tools to prevent thre ele from running if things go bad)? My main is a necro and in my usual condition setup with staff/scepter-dagger there is no way in hell I can beat a decent ele because they have just to much condtion removal. I usually just do not even try to stay and fight any more and just try to escape to the next friendly keep, because even if he is bad and I actually manage to get him in trouble he will just run and there is nothing I can do about it.

going to attempt to answer you. First off you didn’t red my post. I put links there so you could see the skills available to your classes.

Now a few facts. Most eles wont tell you this because they rarely face it but true condition spam is nearly un wipable. It has noting to do with cleanses but application. On this front Necromancer draws the short end of the stick. In CC combat a necro playing condition properly can dot up better than any other class. The variety of the conditions alone make it nearly impossible to wipe them all. Here in lies the rub. Necro more than any other class is limited in immobilize options. You have your knockdown catch up in http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Grasp and your immobilize http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dark_Pact anything else is smart placement of http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Mark but since its visible not much can be done.

To break a very harsh truth to you not only ele but just about any class can run from necromancer. Where necro shines is the fact that 1v1 in the right hands most classes cannot beat the condition build.

And as far as condition removal goes 1 ele by himself vs another class max is 3 every 9-10 seconds and 3 for emergencies. The problem with necro and its condition builds is application. P/D and D/D blossom thief does it so fast so often usually wipes wont do a thing. Its the same with confusion Mesmer. The condition comes in so often you cant wipe it fast enough. Necro applies conditions slowly (by comparison) but more of them.

On your “How about this:
If it is so easy to beat a DD, you could simply offer to duel a DD ele with an other class and show us how easy it is.”

I never said it was easy. Individual counters are but the whole thing is simply about knowledge and skill. As far as a build that carries that type of cc. S/D thief has more on demand immobilize than any other class and its instant. For warrior http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leg_Specialist is pretty much the only trait you need.
Plus both thief and warrior can keep up with ele.
Engineer http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rifle + http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Net_Turret. Mesmer timing the http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swap a little diffidently can shut down rtl plus the numerous stuns. Guardian go scepter + shield / Great sword http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chains_of_Light added in with a few cc skills can shut down the mobility of ele. Ranger have it tricky like necromancer. We rely on pets to pull off the immobilize however http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Concussion_Shot is your best shot.

Now let me point out (like I do above) ele DD is a melee set. For all the pros you point out the con is it really is melee. the reason I mention this is that every weapon set has it drawbacks. Proclaiming you don’t have immobilize is the same as saying I want it all in one set. That’s not possible. You have the capability to bring it you chose not to.

Thanos.2970:

Could you at least name a spec and utility setup for every class that has at least a chance to kill a good DD ele (this should include tools to prevent thre ele from running if things go bad)?

Here are some builds that work very well against D/D eles:
- Sword/pistol + staff shatter mesmers (common 20/20/0/0/30 traits and power/crtit gear); Staff #2 lets you kite them very well and pistol stun + shatter + blurred frenzy burst kills them
- Condition-trap-ranger: Can kite the ele very well and apply tons of conditions. Once the condi removals of the ele are on cooldown, he goes down fast.
- “Perma-stealth” condition-thief (with regen + condi removal in stealth): These can simply outheal and outdamage the D/D ele and are uncatchable in stealth.
- Bomb-engineer or Turret-engineer: The D/D ele needs to get close and thus has a hard time to avoid the bombs or turrets.
- Spirit-weapon guardian (goes well with szepter and sword or hammer): If the ele kites the weapons, he cannot do damage. If he does not, he will go down pretty quickly.
- Condition-necro with corrupt boon: Many D/D eles have a lot of boons. They will run out of condi removal pretty fast.
- I don’t really know about warriors. I rarely see anything but frenzy-100 blades burst warriors anyway.

Preventing a D/D ele from running is not so easy if he times it right. But the same is true for thieves going stealth, mesmers using portal, warriors using the elite signet + mobility skills from weapons + mobile strikes, engineers with speedy kits + automated response etc.. It’s not really special that some builds (or nearly all builds in case of thieves) are good at running away.

High burst, Immobilize, poision, cc are our weak points imo.

Ive been locked down and locked down other ele’s with these simple tips. D/D elementalists (like me) tend to get themselves in way too deep; trip them up like this and its game over man.

Edit: If we are talking 1-1 d/d elementalists have better mobility, if its a matter of getting back to the safety of the zerg, most classes (all?) have some capability to do this.

The only real long fight I had against someone else that wasn’t a ele, was a bunker rifle engineer. He CONSTANTLY used the right CC at the right time.

The skills from an elementalist can be seen from the other side of a map. If you get hit by their burst. Your obviously doing something wrong.

TheGuy.3568:

Mobility-
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Immobilize during RTL

yeh immobilize is pretty op especially because if it hits during the RTL the long animation cast will still go off leaving the ele vulnerable and rooted in spot for a good few seconds

TheGuy.3568:

Range/Kiting-
Ele can be kited.

from my experience necros and engineers can be a deal breaker. convert all boons into conditions and having turrets to cc will disable the ele, leaving him free target to nearby enemies

cool thread!

A universal elementalist will not have much toughness, vitality or healing power, so they are quite vulnerable, if spec’ing for decent damage (around 50-60% crit damage). A fight between two skilled players could go either way.

A bunkerish elementalist is tough to kill, as goes for every bunker build out there. Nigh impossible perhaps. On the bright side (for you non-eles), the elementalist has very low damage skills to begin with (as Anet nerfed them into the ground before launch), compared to other classes. There are only two good damage skills when using D/D, and they are easily dodged.

Going for a bunker build, means that the elementalist has basically non-existing crits, thereby posing no immediate threat. Perhaps they have fine condition damage, but if you know what you are doing, you will have condition removal utilities/skills and be in no real danger. The damage of elementalists is rather poor, even if you aim for max crit damage in S/TPvP (62%). That is just a sad fact.

Btw., if you see an elementalist casting Churning Earth, you can use the time to do plenty of damage to him/her, until the skill goes off. Good for putting pressure on someone. Another tip is to use a ranged weapon that allows you to be outside the damage radius. D/D is used for close combat, but can be used just outside melee range. Either put pressure on the elementalist from very close quarters (thereby making it hard for him/her to target you), or go outside the damage radius (medium to long range).

I’d just like to give a big thank you to all that took the time (especially The.Guy) to make this thread. I have been struggling with d/d ele’s for awhile now, both in spvp and wvw and this thread has made me realize the errors of my ways.

Recognizing the need to dodge the ele’s damage… out dps his heals… and keep the ele snared/immobilized has really increased my confidence and success with d/d ele encounters. For so long I was literally just eating the ele’s damage… thinking it was incoming heals. I recognize now that my 6 ability is not a damage spell against an ele but actually a heal for myself… this explains why my dps was never strong enough to overpower the ele’s heals. Using abilities 1-5 I think I have seen the ele actually need to switch attunements to water and cast a heal… before this almost never happened.

I’m working on snaring/immobilizing… for so long I thought just emoting waves was the plan of action… but hearing that snares/immobilizes may pin the ele down is definitely a neat trick worth trying.

IN summary.. seriously?

So do you think playing d/d elementalist is “god mod”, mursie?

If not, obviously you were not the intended audience.

While I don’t understand the anger the advice I gave will usually work. The main issue is this most players like to dps but don’t really time snares or anything around their opponent and more around their rotation.

Ele can not indefinitely heal. A burst dps will burn an ele down. Like I said if your dps is not burning down the ele your not truly speced for dps. I say that with no sarcasm because its the simple truth.

We have tried numerous times in the past to explain the gaps your response is pretty typical of those we explained it to. No one can force you to learn. No one can force you to change the way you play. Accept the limitations of your build. If you can not change it to one that can beat ele (there are numerous) and many were mentioned in this thread. Its true many of these builds are not popular the fact is they work and not only for this task.

Good advice. I like posts like this that help people learn the game better. A lot of people come from other MMO’s and aren’t used to how important timing is in GW2. So I give you a +1.

-EDIT- I should add, DD eles will be getting a nerf soon so everybody whining should just chill. I know ANet and if any one build becomes too popular or successful, they will “equalize” it. LOL

Btw, whenever you see an elementalist going into water attunement, you can except him/her to attempt healing, avoiding you, or chill you. There is no real damage potential in water, so that is a good time to focus damage and interrupts. Be mindful that next stop likely is going to be air, which might be used to escape. Have some CC ready when it happens. Nothing worse to be immobilized in RTL.

I hope they will make other options viable and interesting instead. :P

In GW1 ANet adjusted the professions the entire time. They never once stopped and said, “Hey, this profession is done.” The same thing will happen with GW2. People just don’t understand that because they’re too used to their experiences in other MMOs. I mean I complained for a bit about the engineer nerf and all too. So I’m no angel. I totally get the frustration. But I trust ANet (still, for some reason) to get the metagame balanced.

Zonzai.2341:

Good advice. I like posts like this that help people learn the game better. A lot of people come from other MMO’s and aren’t used to how important timing is in GW2. So I give you a +1.

-EDIT- I should add, DD eles will be getting a nerf soon so everybody whining should just chill. I know ANet and if any one build becomes too popular or successful, they will “equalize” it. LOL

They already said DD eles will get a damage buff so no they will not get nerfed.

The main 3 tips for defeating dnd

1) Use dodge,roll. Dont let ele bait u into his close range and aoe damage spells.

2) Use more range damage where possible. Dont stand around like an idiot.

3) Look at Tip no.1

Dodge the gap closers and immobilize them at range. Then they’re worthless.

Aether McLoud.1975:

Zonzai.2341:

Good advice. I like posts like this that help people learn the game better. A lot of people come from other MMO’s and aren’t used to how important timing is in GW2. So I give you a +1.

-EDIT- I should add, DD eles will be getting a nerf soon so everybody whining should just chill. I know ANet and if any one build becomes too popular or successful, they will “equalize” it. LOL

They already said DD eles will get a damage buff so no they will not get nerfed.

Elementalists will get a general damage buff you mean? That’s what I thought they said. The problem with the DD ele isn’t the damage output. It doesn’t do all that much damage. The mobility will end up being reduced though. The same thing happened with the ele in GW1. And the thief for that matter. It’s like deja vu.

Zonzai.2341:

Aether McLoud.1975:

Zonzai.2341:

Good advice. I like posts like this that help people learn the game better. A lot of people come from other MMO’s and aren’t used to how important timing is in GW2. So I give you a +1.

-EDIT- I should add, DD eles will be getting a nerf soon so everybody whining should just chill. I know ANet and if any one build becomes too popular or successful, they will “equalize” it. LOL

They already said DD eles will get a damage buff so no they will not get nerfed.

Elementalists will get a general damage buff you mean? That’s what I thought they said. The problem with the DD ele isn’t the damage output. It doesn’t do all that much damage. The mobility will end up being reduced though. The same thing happened with the ele in GW1. And the thief for that matter. It’s like deja vu.

Honestly that would make no sense. If you look at warrior, guardian, and ranger gs and sword builds they have just as much mobility or more. Seriously before you respond look at the skills and the cool downs literally more mobile than DD.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sword
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Greatsword

For the record: Bunker D/D ele does NOT deal decent damage.

So if really any1 get bursted down by a bunker D/D ele, then throw away your glass canon stuff and stack some defense.

It’s a bit odd that you’d suggest this as a viable way to deal with D/D when in fact you need 2-3 people coordinating their Immobilize or Interrupts to even begin dealing with a single Elementalist efficiently. One player on their own will not have enough Stun, Daze or Root abilities to tie the opponent down long enough to affect the engagement in any meaningful way.

Yes, you can dodge most of their channeled damage and knockbacks. Yes, you can interrupt their RTL, but this is a long shot from actually putting them at a disadvantage in a fight. You are now out of Endurance and with at least one Interrupt weapon or Utility skill on cooldown while the Elementalist is free to engage you.

This is the frustrating part for a player facing a D/D Elementalist, really; between Mist Form, Shocking Aura, Frost Aura, RTL and constant Regeneration there’s no way to actually pin them down and hit them for long enough to cause any threatening amount of damage unless you invest heavily into burst, which in turn leaves you as a vulnerable glass cannon that can simply be outlasted after the initial strike.

A coordinated, communicating group of people can easily deal with a single D/D, but the most common situations in WvW and enemies in the slew of recent Elementalist videos lack the cooperation necessary to achieve this. When you place a D/D Elementalist into a group of uncoordinated opponents, risk to themselves is almost completely negated which ultimately leads to the “OP” cries we have here now.

Kibbles.9813:

It’s a bit odd that you’d suggest this as a viable way to deal with D/D when in fact you need 2-3 people coordinating their Immobilize or Interrupts to even begin dealing with a single Elementalist efficiently. One player on their own will not have enough Stun, Daze or Root abilities to tie the opponent down long enough to affect the engagement in any meaningful way.

Yes, you can dodge most of their channeled damage and knockbacks. Yes, you can interrupt their RTL, but this is a long shot from actually putting them at a disadvantage in a fight. You are now out of Endurance and with at least one Interrupt weapon or Utility skill on cooldown while the Elementalist is free to engage you.

This is the frustrating part for player facing a D/D Elementalist, really; between Mist Form, Shocking Aura, Frost Aura, RTL and constant Regeneration there’s no way to actually pin them down and hit them for long enough to cause any threatening amount of damage unless you invest heavily into burst, which in turn leaves you as a vulnerable glass cannon that can simply be outlasted after the initial strike.

Isn’t that exactly what dodging, CC, and utilities are for? You can basically stick any class in that argument. I dodged that mesmers shatter, but now I’m out of endurance. I interrupted that warrior’s heal and now one of my CCs are on cooldown. I popped my heal and now it’s on cooldown.

Again, this is a defensive build designed to outlast you. It doesn’t burst, but does steady damage over time except for the occasional fire grab and churning earth. If you fail to burst down this build, you’re going to get outlasted. Against another defensive build, neither player is going to down each other, at least within the span of a few minutes. You can’t argue that you can’t burst down a defensive build without speccing for it. In fact, an elementalist without their cantrips are the easiest to burst down since they have both the lowest hp and armor in the game. The build everyone seems to complain about takes cantrips and builds around them for this very reason. If you’re looking to kill defensive builds and to be able to survive against a glass cannon, you’re going to be disappointed.

Kibbles.9813:

It’s a bit odd that you’d suggest this as a viable way to deal with D/D when in fact you need 2-3 people coordinating their Immobilize or Interrupts to even begin dealing with a single Elementalist

Incorrect both Rifle warrior and engineer can cc and immobilize. Rifle warrior with hammer and the http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leg_Specialist trait do it easily. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Net_Turret for engineer. BTW access to immobilize is rather easy for most classes save necromancer.http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Immobilized

Also note both those classes have quite a bit of cc so doe every other.

Another note look at http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator%27s_Strike

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hammer is also one of the best weapons to cc with.

Kibbles.9813:

This is the frustrating part for a player facing a D/D Elementalist, really; between Mist Form, Shocking Aura, Frost Aura, RTL and constant Regeneration there’s no way to actually pin them down and hit them for long enough to cause any threatening amount of damage unless you invest heavily into burst, which in turn leaves you as a vulnerable glass cannon that can simply be outlasted after the initial strike.

All of those powerful ele skills (except RTL) are on high cooldowns.

Earthquake: 45s
Updraft: 40s
Mist form: 75s
Armor of Earth: 90s
Lightning Flash: 45s
Churning Earth: 30s
Fire Grab: 45s
Cleansing Wave: 45s
Frost Aura: 40s
Shocking Aura: 25s

Got it? Ele has 20 skills but the downpart is those skills are on much higher cooldowns. Get used to it.

Toversletje.9345:

tips for defeating DD ele?

wich side are you on? O.O

No ones. Most players cant see the forest for the trees. First time I played DD I wondered how to counter it. First time I got hard countered by an engineer I thought it was OP but instead of whining I rolled one and realized it isn’t.

The other issue is players hate to see the parity. On paper and in practice vs someone ranged focus is a much better option than dagger. However, not all that many players use focus. Same with sword and greatsword for ranger. All the abilities to shut down a build are in the game but no one uses them.

Zonzai.2341:

Aether McLoud.1975:

Zonzai.2341:

Good advice. I like posts like this that help people learn the game better. A lot of people come from other MMO’s and aren’t used to how important timing is in GW2. So I give you a +1.

-EDIT- I should add, DD eles will be getting a nerf soon so everybody whining should just chill. I know ANet and if any one build becomes too popular or successful, they will “equalize” it. LOL

They already said DD eles will get a damage buff so no they will not get nerfed.

Elementalists will get a general damage buff you mean? That’s what I thought they said. The problem with the DD ele isn’t the damage output. It doesn’t do all that much damage. The mobility will end up being reduced though. The same thing happened with the ele in GW1. And the thief for that matter. It’s like deja vu.

As countless other in countless other threads said, warriors and rangers have more mobility than eles, as do thieves which are even more survivable (in a damage spec) through stealth.

With the exception of perhaps a TPV – Sword/GS Warrior, every other profession must make sacrifices for their mobility. Utilities, weapon swaps, sub-par weapons, trait selections which all add up to a reduction in either : Healing, CC , Cleansing, Boons, Damage, or group utility.
The D/D build doesn’t … it literally has everything neatly packed into one build.

Two things to do really : Nerf the build or buff every other profession to be able to do everything in one build as well. I’m game for the later , I’d love to see how that turned out.

Smitten.3076:

With the exception of perhaps a TPV – Sword/GS Warrior, every other profession must make sacrifices for their mobility. Utilities, weapon swaps, sub-par weapons, trait selections which all add up to a reduction in either : Healing, CC , Cleansing, Boons, Damage, or group utility.
The D/D build doesn’t … it literally has everything neatly packed into one build.

Two things to do really : Nerf the build or buff every other profession to be able to do everything in one build as well. I’m game for the later , I’d love to see how that turned out.

Sounds like eles who sacrifice the ability to do ranged damage for mobility…

Also quit the useless whining, they already said countless times that ele is in a good spot (needs some damage buffs here and there) and they want them to be kings of mobility + versatility with the highest skillcap out of all classes.

Also just recently a lot of classes got passive 25% movement speed with a sigil.

Smitten.3076:

With the exception of perhaps a TPV – Sword/GS Warrior, every other profession must make sacrifices for their mobility. Utilities, weapon swaps, sub-par weapons, trait selections which all add up to a reduction in either : Healing, CC , Cleansing, Boons, Damage, or group utility.
The D/D build doesn’t … it literally has everything neatly packed into one build.

Two things to do really : Nerf the build or buff every other profession to be able to do everything in one build as well. I’m game for the later , I’d love to see how that turned out.

the elementalist has to sacrifice a utility to get lightning flash. they have to attunement-switch (the ele version of weapon swap) to get RTL. they have to go into water for good condition removal, or sacrifice a damaging utility for cleansing flame.

if you want great healing youll need at least 15 in water and 30 in arcana for evasive arcana and the aoe water attune heal. many eles also get either a clerics amulet or jewel in spvp. or healing power on their gear etc in wvw. once again bunker eles usually dont have much health.

D/D has 2 hard CCs and 2 mediums (i count air3 as medium due to the small duration and stun length. but u could say its hard cc also). updraft is predictable, you jsut roll their RTL to you and will most likely dodge it. earthquake is quite visible as you jump up into the air for it. shocking aura is obviously very visible. the only thing you may not see too well is magnetic grasp, which is super buggy now. D/D has medium CC. and we cant get much cc from utilities. the only thing is earth signet or arcana 12 with arcane spells. which requires a trait and minimum of 1 utility. its not even hard cc and you wont be very survivable.

without deep water traits your cleansing takes a big hit. cleansing flame requires a utility slot and has a longer cool down.

they do have good boon management as it only requires 10 in arcana to get access to 4 separate boons when attuning.

group utility requires 30 in water, and 10 in air for maximum effect.

their damage is lacking however. Anet already said eles are getting a damage buff as its too low right now.

eles take one particular spec (0/10/0/30/30) with 3 cantrips 99% of the time. this happens to be the only real viable build currently. you might be able to beat random players who arent too skilled, but a good ele running 0 in arcana or 30 fire/air is almsot guaranteed to lose to an equally skilled player.

if you dont take this particular build the elementalist’s capabilities drastically fall. all these traits and utilities are strong due to their synergy. when you take part of it out, the build loses a lot of its power. other classes have an easier time distributing points and customizing their builds. eles are too dependent on an almost exact setup every time to function competitively.

anet has already said the elementalist should be the BEST class, when played very well . if eles are dominating too much now (which i dont think they are). the class needs to be made tougher. not weaker.

the elementalist was designed to be the best. but only when played with skill.

how Anet would make them tougher to use without nerfing them, i dont know. thats not my area.

but Eles (D/D specifically it seems) being OP i dont agree with

Aether McLoud.1975:

Smitten.3076:

With the exception of perhaps a TPV – Sword/GS Warrior, every other profession must make sacrifices for their mobility. Utilities, weapon swaps, sub-par weapons, trait selections which all add up to a reduction in either : Healing, CC , Cleansing, Boons, Damage, or group utility.
The D/D build doesn’t … it literally has everything neatly packed into one build.

Two things to do really : Nerf the build or buff every other profession to be able to do everything in one build as well. I’m game for the later , I’d love to see how that turned out.

Sounds like eles who sacrifice the ability to do ranged damage for mobility…

Also quit the useless whining, they already said countless times that ele is in a good spot (needs some damage buffs here and there) and they want them to be kings of mobility + versatility with the highest skillcap out of all classes.

Also just recently a lot of classes got passive 25% movement speed with a sigil.

I’d love to sacrifice ranged damage on any other profession I play to have the kit the D/D ele has. Seriously … give it to me.

They actually didn’t say anything of that nature. They said that D/D ele’s sustain damage needs some help. The rest of the discussion was pretty obvious that the Developers knew the build needed some tweaks with this line :
“[…] Some defensive Ele specs are too good. […]while some spike builds are pretty rough.[…]”

Seems pretty easy to read a tweak coming, with the only buff being to sustain.
It doesn’t really matter at this point, this is all water under the bridge. Anet’s message acknowledges the problems, even the lack of sustain. Hopefully they make the right tweaks because I don’t want anything nerfed into uselessness.

Omg… I just cant with all these ppl full of themselfs thinking that their d/d ele is so powerfull, ele is best in skll cap etc (not true). It is bullkitten, really. How many times u fight in WvW vs pro PvP player? I can tell- if u are good pvp player u can deal 1v2 or 1v3, playing as any class, easy against upscale ppl or just averge PvE plyers. D/D ele is predictable and can be easy counter. Ppl just struggle because they dont know about d/d and all his 20 skill spam a thing.

This whole boom on d/d eles is just matter of time ppl will learn to counter. U think ur tanky build is something new? This build is using in PvP from like months! And belive me, in good team tourneys no d/d ele will win 1v2. In fact skilled players loose 98% 1v2 with skilled players. Dont talk about bunker guardians here. So killing PvE players in WvW or upscales who know kitten about d/d ele is false proof for it being any better than other classes.

Really, try your uber build d/d in PvP and show me that ppl needs to special coordinate just for u (yea…). When u meet equal or better player in WvW 1v1 u will struggle and win or loose. If u meet 1v2 skilled players ur dead or u run.

d/d eles are no better in any way than other classes and u can beat them 1v1 any class. Just go pvp and play one whole day and learn to counter it.

Seriously if d/d ele would be so op like some eles here wish for, in PvP team camps would be full d/d eles.

I was playing d/d ele in high PvP from BWE1 so i talk from experience.

And skill cap… To be so efective in any other class as I was in PvP with ele i would have put same hard work and theorycraft for it.

bunker ele’s they are kind of like flies, buzz around you, hard to catch but aren’t really harmful. Long as they are having fun it’s all good.

Actually kind of sad at times… I was defending a camp in WvW when 2 complete glass cannon thieves came to flip. Since I knew they were coming I easily countered their initial burst. Problem is, even as a complete glass cannon, me as a tank with my full air/fire combo only got him down to 30% HP. That’s like what… 8k? give or take. To a non-glass cannon that wouldn’t even have fazed them. And even to those glass cannons they wouldn’t have died if they had left and healed before coming back.

The tips are not needed, those that have strong aoe and point damage will be nerfed soon enough. The three remaining classes are Elementalist, Mesmer, and Warrior, that still need to be………“Adjusted”.

We will all simply wait till your turn comes around as our did, Grin. Then a how to beat an Ele thread wont be needed. Lol, waves. Good luck in the next few patching rounds.

Graill.8596:

The tips are not needed, those that have strong aoe and point damage will be nerfed soon enough. The three remaining classes are Elementalist, Mesmer, and Warrior, that still need to be………“Adjusted”.

I actually don’t know what kind of strong aoe and point damage you are talking about, for in this thread the topic is a high survivability bunker build that doesn’t remotely reach dmg spikes of other classes/builds… However, the list of classes to be “adjusted” is a longer one, and should actually list specific builds instead of classes.

In case of the elementalist, it would be no problem to list the D/D bunker build as one to be slightly nerfed/adjusted, but not without buffing other builds and weapons to give ele-players other choices…

Graill.8596:

We will all simply wait till your turn comes around as our did, Grin. Then a how to beat an Ele thread wont be needed. Lol, waves. Good luck in the next few patching rounds.

It might have escaped your notice (don’t know if you even read patch notes now and then), but with every single bug fix, there were also some nerfs being implemented for eles.

There is no reason to mock somebody for trying to help people like you by writing a very good thread about game dynamics regarding eles (even though you are a very good example for the wrong target audience, not even reading the posts in a thread).

I’m of course aware of the fact, that I’m feeding a troll here, but I just needed to say this…

you could also:
1.roll a necro
2.equip corupt boons
3.???
4.Profit!

TheGuy.3568:

Cantrips-

for those who don’t know here’s the link (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cantrip). Now for many this is the bread and butter of ele survival. There isn’t much you can do to counter cantrips and honestly you goal should be to get the ele to use them. Why? So they have one less tool on the table. Cantrips by nature have long cool downs. The decision to use one indicates that the ele is being pressured into it.

This is always something that bothered me.
You see 90% of the eles running around with tripple cantrips, because they break stun.
While other classes hardly ever use more then 1 stunbreaker. Why is an ele forced into taking 3 with him?
Is it because he will die if he doesn’t use them? Why aren’t other classes using 3 stunbreakers then?
Is it because there are hardly any other good utilities? That’s definitely not true, arcane skills are great for added burst and signets can be used with a good trait setup.
Is it because these spells are just too powerful to ignore? Well I doubt that’s the case, its a generic teleport skill, a short invulnerability skill that also blocks actions from the user and 2 generic stunbreakers off which one cures 3 conditions and does a bit of damage and the other gives stability and protection which isn’t uncommon either.

I take 3 cantrips with me so I can survive a knockdown or stun. Without it, or when popping it too late, I can and will die in seconds even with my full toughness build.

Windwalker.2047:

you could also:
1.roll a necro
2.equip corupt boons
3.???
4.Profit!

As a lvl 80 necro that has tried the corrupt boon/epidemic in WvW, I’d like it better if it wasn’t so bugged, like a lot of necro skills.

There is Well of Corruption, but that involves having the ele walk into the pulsing red circle.

The biggest counter for the average necro is their skills.