Guild Wars 2

It is even worse than the lockout. You also have to account for the 5s camping to unlock an overcharge, then the 5s channel b4 you can even swap out. That is a MINIMUM of 25s between swaps into an attunement, all to get one decent skill that, if it were worthwhile, has a 95% chance of getting interrupted.

The only weapon-set/playstyle that can afford to even sit in one attunement for 5s to begin with is fire-camping staff pve eles. That is also the only playstyle that can afford the long attunement CD, b/c they wont be swapping out.

It really seems like they were trying to get effects that could be used frontline in wvw, ignoring:
- CC spam everywhere, so 5s channel what?
- Not providing tons of survival/tankiness that doesn’t rely on swapping in and out of water/earth as quickly as possible (a requirement that directly conflicts with the very design)
- Auto-attacks are still trash (besides LW), so you are hurt even more by being locked out of an attunement.
- These floating projectile/fields they put out aren’t fast enough to keep up with a group running forward, but aren’t stationary/controllable either, making them extremely hard to use in any situation that isn’t a group of stationary golems standing there.

Honestly, tempest won’t open up anything new. If it gets taken, it will be for small effects like: auras healing, strong prot, extra endurance from vigor, etc.

Also, I agree, wash the pain away MIGHT see use, but probably not. Eles already take a ton of group-healing capabilities. SoR plays a key role in keeping them alive to spread out those heals, while also giving a huge boost to 1v1 capabilities.

Ele is the class with the lowest base health and lowest base armor. It should have been obvious to Anet that almost every trait and utility choice ele’s make is to make up for that. That’s why we take water, arcana, and cantrips pretty much all the time.

But instead of offering us alternative ways to stay alive, we end up with shouts.

I, personally, would have been much happier with them fixing the weapon skills that have been garbage since launch rather than trying to throw another weapon into the mix. Focus has such amazing skills in earth and air, but GOD those kittenty fire skills? Come on…

And the elite shout? Wow, we get to help warriors rampage 25% more often. This is going to make ele so fun…

RyanThomas.4182:

And the elite shout? Wow, we get to help warriors rampage 25% more often. This is going to make ele so fun…

Honestly to not mess this up all they needed to do was give us one good elite, but now we have an elite that will only serve to recharge the elites of other classes… lol

Xillllix.3485:

RyanThomas.4182:

And the elite shout? Wow, we get to help warriors rampage 25% more often. This is going to make ele so fun…

Honestly to not mess this up all they needed to do was give us one good elite, but now we have an elite that will only serve to recharge the elites of other classes… lol

Wow… that might be the best trolling ANET has done with the Ele class when thinking about it…

BlackBeard.2873:

The only weapon-set/playstyle that can afford to even sit in one attunement for 5s to begin with is fire-camping staff pve eles. That is also the only playstyle that can afford the long attunement CD, b/c they wont be swapping out.

Which of course is a build that will never take tempest because there is simply no way the damage of fire, and if we are being generous air, overloads will out weigh the damage mods of water or air specs.

thetwothousand.5049:

BlackBeard.2873:

The only weapon-set/playstyle that can afford to even sit in one attunement for 5s to begin with is fire-camping staff pve eles. That is also the only playstyle that can afford the long attunement CD, b/c they wont be swapping out.

Which of course is a build that will never take tempest because there is simply no way the damage of fire, and if we are being generous air, overloads will out weigh the damage mods of water or air specs.

PvE ele goes air, cast glyph, earth, eruption, fire, lava font, meteor, switch to water as soon as the cast starts, frost bow when meteor finishes channeling, use 4 and 3 then drop, 2, 3 if a heal is good for scholar then back to camping fire.

By that point most things are dead but even then the only attunement to overload would be air initially. We take the 2 damage mods in water, one is a 20% and the other is a 10%. Air and fire also have just as big damage mods so really I can’t see any reason to even entertain the idea of tempest in PvE.

That’s without going over what others have said. Quite frankly anyone that said ele couldn’t frontline support doesn’t know how to play ele and should stick to cotton wool wrapped endure pain warrior.

The tempest was clearly designed for WvW. The utilities are shouts so they can be combined with rune of the trooper.

The cd on air overload can be bypassed by fresh air.

The tempest Is not an obvious thing to play… just like the elementalist when the game was released. It took the community quite some time to master it.

At the moment people who are into PvP say the Tempest may be good for WvW.
People who are into WvW say the Tempest may be good for PvE.
And people who are into PvE say the Tempest may be good for PvP.

The sad truth is that at present the Tempest is good for nothing. Too weak and easy to interrupt in PvP, too little damage in PvE and not competitive with what staff offers in WvW, particularly in mass battles.

Ele needed a much greater change in playstyle to offer something really new and useful. They had a good insight when they experimented with sword, but they scrapped it making an absurd mistake. Warhorn + Overload mechanic don’t bring anything really worth or different to be taken from what we already have in any single game mode. It’s as if they look after a concept of “being in melee and doing more support” and pursued it in a quite abstract way. They seem really out of touch with how the class play in all 3 game modes…

Well, I’m happy that I didn’t hype myself over the Tempest. And it feels good how all the “You just gotta play it!” and “You don’t know anything about it!” kiddos suddenly went quiet.

Class mechanic – Overcharge: You’re forced to camp an attunement to get a miniscule effect out of it. And not only that you’re so easy to interupt it’s not even funny anymore. If I’d get pre nerf FGS damage on an overcharge… sure, fair thing but atm? No.
At least they changed the range to be less…horrible I guess.

Weapon – Warhorn: Surprise, surprise! I wanna take the time to say “I told you” to everyone who was so stuck up on WH actually getting a good, new playstyle and not just 8x the wailing animation. New sounds do nothing there – It’s bad counterplay because as an enemy you never know what exactly is comming and as the ele you have no variance to look at. This is why people hated the idea behind WH. And they were kitten right with hating it beforehand.
Skills? Focus will still be superior in defense, dagger is still better with offense. Did you guys look at how Karl fought against Svanir/Chieftain? He put down some AoEs then ran in circles. That’s horrible. I stick with my fun D/D, D/F or Scepter playstyle thank you :p
Sure, the effects have some “new” mechanics which is nice, but I hardly see a future scenario which screams “This combination of skills! That’s it! Use it!”.

Traits: Oh boy… You can make them work but… It’s all auramancer again. After the class rework auramancer is already one of the most viable playstyles. I would have liked some more playstyles and not one of the only viable ones on steroids~
That’s a let-down. I guess Anet really want’s you to play with Auras…

Shouts: Welp… Some are nice – Certainly need number tuning though. The elite though… It’s a joke. I want to choose a viable elite to fit my playstyle. Not the Element because it’s mostly the least horrible or the glorified taxi aka FGS. I’m not even talking about the…other one…

Ah sigh, there would have been so much potential. So much stuff you could have done to make Ele spec fun. But alas, I guess I’ll stick with PvP builds in PvP or make a storage character out of my Ele. Luckily I have every profession on 80 fully geared out…

Akuni.8604:

Well, I’m happy that I didn’t hype myself over the Tempest. And it feels good how all the “You just gotta play it!” and “You don’t know anything about it!” kiddos suddenly went quiet.

Class mechanic – Overcharge: You’re forced to camp an attunement to get a miniscule effect out of it. And not only that you’re so easy to interupt it’s not even funny anymore. If I’d get pre nerf FGS damage on an overcharge… sure, fair thing but atm? No.
At least they changed the range to be less…horrible I guess.

Weapon – Warhorn: Surprise, surprise! I wanna take the time to say “I told you” to everyone who was so stuck up on WH actually getting a good, new playstyle and not just 8x the wailing animation. New sounds do nothing there – It’s bad counterplay because as an enemy you never know what exactly is comming and as the ele you have no variance to look at. This is why people hated the idea behind WH. And they were kitten right with hating it beforehand.
Skills? Focus will still be superior in defense, dagger is still better with offense. Did you guys look at how Karl fought against Svanir/Chieftain? He put down some AoEs then ran in circles. That’s horrible. I stick with my fun D/D, D/F or Scepter playstyle thank you :p
Sure, the effects have some “new” mechanics which is nice, but I hardly see a future scenario which screams “This combination of skills! That’s it! Use it!”.

Traits: Oh boy… You can make them work but… It’s all auramancer again. After the class rework auramancer is already one of the most viable playstyles. I would have liked some more playstyles and not one of the only viable ones on steroids~
That’s a let-down. I guess Anet really want’s you to play with Auras…

Shouts: Welp… Some are nice – Certainly need number tuning though. The elite though… It’s a joke. I want to choose a viable elite to fit my playstyle. Not the Element because it’s mostly the least horrible or the glorified taxi aka FGS. I’m not even talking about the…other one…

Ah sigh, there would have been so much potential. So much stuff you could have done to make Ele spec fun. But alas, I guess I’ll stick with PvP builds in PvP or make a storage character out of my Ele. Luckily I have every profession on 80 fully geared out…

Ya overcharge would make sense only if you could keep using your other skills, specially since its not ranged, the recharge penalty is enough. The boon share and pull on warhorn are kinda interesting but it would be much better to have those at range for an elementalist… Just who’s going to melee pull a blob in WvW? I guess a lot of people will swap to another class unless they improve these issues.

For comparison you guys do realise that ye have a basic utility shout the does 75% more damage, casts 8 times faster, recharges 2.4 times faster, has a CC which ignores Stab and let’s you reflect projectiles compared to the Reapers Elite shout. Ye already do crazy amounts of damage, mobility and sustain. Now ye have access to more support options, boon strip AND boon share on 1 off hand and ye complain? Necro would kill for even half the stuff you guys are getting!

Galedeep.5496:

For comparison you guys do realise that ye have a basic utility shout the does 75% more damage, casts 8 times faster, recharges 2.4 times faster, has a CC which ignores Stab and let’s you reflect projectiles compared to the Reapers Elite shout. Ye already do crazy amounts of damage, mobility and sustain. Now ye have access to more support options, boon strip AND boon share on 1 off hand and ye complain? Necro would kill for even half the stuff you guys are getting!

Dude, if I could I would gladly give you all of those :p It’s just not Ele to me. If I’d enjoy camping 1 attunement I could also just play a warri.

Grimreaper.5370:

I can’t help but find the tempest design to look underwhelming from a PvP perspective…

-Shouts probably wont replace Cantrips

-Being locked out of an attunement for 16+ seconds means very little use of overcharge, being locked out of attunements for longer than you already are is poor game design when it comes to the functionality of the elementalist.

-The majority didn’t want warhorn, we got warhorn. Hoped that warhorn could at least provide a unique playstyle, warhorn turns out to be another support based off hand weapon which doesn’t seem to offer a whole lot different compared to focus or OH dagger besides a water field and some ally boon application.

-If I try and live in a delusional fantasy world then maybe wash the pain away will see some use but lets be honest whos going to want to get rid of healing signet? Even if Wash the Pain away turns out to actually be decent when considering your allies, how many people will be selfless enough to use it?

Like a lot of you competitive spvp people I was really hoping to break out of the support role and play around with a sword main hand… I can live with this not being the case but after also seeing what the Temepest brings to the table I’m left very disappointed, I was hoping for something a bit more complex.

Anet, I plead you! Please reconsider the route you’re taking tempest!

tbh, be thankful, the fact its underwhelming means the proffession will be buffed and brought up, Proffessions such as the Necromancer and Mesmer are going to just have their Elites nerfed repeatively til they are worthless to any circumstance.

So tbh your one of the few proffessions who will see any long term play from their Elites tbh.

apharma.3741:

thetwothousand.5049:

BlackBeard.2873:

The only weapon-set/playstyle that can afford to even sit in one attunement for 5s to begin with is fire-camping staff pve eles. That is also the only playstyle that can afford the long attunement CD, b/c they wont be swapping out.

Which of course is a build that will never take tempest because there is simply no way the damage of fire, and if we are being generous air, overloads will out weigh the damage mods of water or air specs.

PvE ele goes air, cast glyph, earth, eruption, fire, lava font, meteor, switch to water as soon as the cast starts, frost bow when meteor finishes channeling, use 4 and 3 then drop, 2, 3 if a heal is good for scholar then back to camping fire.

By that point most things are dead but even then the only attunement to overload would be air initially. We take the 2 damage mods in water, one is a 20% and the other is a 10%. Air and fire also have just as big damage mods so really I can’t see any reason to even entertain the idea of tempest in PvE.

That’s without going over what others have said. Quite frankly anyone that said ele couldn’t frontline support doesn’t know how to play ele and should stick to cotton wool wrapped endure pain warrior.

actually ele rotation is pre-might stack air attunement—> Glyph of storms—> swap to water while casting—> cast ice bow—> icebow 5—>icebow 4 (then 3 if the hitbox is big)—> fire attument—> lava font—> meteor shower—> auto till dead (using 2 and 5 off cooldown). In addition their are times when you swamp to water and earth for utility but that’s outside of optimal situations. However, I agree if you can’t front line as an ele you don’t know how to play your class.

RyanThomas.4182:

Ele is the class with the lowest base health and lowest base armor. It should have been obvious to Anet that almost every trait and utility choice ele’s make is to make up for that. That’s why we take water, arcana, and cantrips pretty much all the time.

But instead of offering us alternative ways to stay alive, we end up with shouts.

Agree completely. That is the one big failure the dev always failed to grasp or do anything about it. Ele never really wanted to always go water/arcane/cantrip. We went there because it’s was where we could find what low life and armor desperately needed.

You want to open build diversity? Really? Then make it so glyphs and shouts, as well as other kind of magic, offer what we need to offset our fragility. Why can’t we have good defensive glyphs spec for example the same way we could have had more offensive cantrips?

Being stuck for long into one attunement absolutely doesn’t help in that regard either since our survivability largely depend on the elemental dance. The overcharged powers as presented can’t possibly make up for it.

Why oh why is it yet another close range option? dagger is already close range and sceptre is effectively close range as well.

support? we already do that on both S/? and D/?, we don’t need more.

and 2.75-5second channel, WTF are they smoking? Who is going to seriously channel for 2.75-5sec in WVW/PVP? Being locked out of attunements for 20sec?

I can’t see myself using any of the new stuff except just the warhorn. maybe.

scerevisiae.1972:

Why oh why is it yet another close range option? dagger is already close range and sceptre is effectively close range as well.

support? we already do that on both S/? and D/?, we don’t need more.

and 2.75-5second channel, WTF are they smoking? Who is going to seriously channel for 2.75-5sec in WVW/PVP? Being locked out of attunements for 20sec?

I can’t see myself using any of the new stuff except just the warhorn. maybe.

If both mainhand weapons are close range then it should be obvious we’d get a close range offhand. I’m puzzled why anyone would wish otherwise.

rotten.9753:

If both mainhand weapons are close range then it should be obvious we’d get a close range offhand. I’m puzzled why anyone would wish otherwise.

Scepter isn’t close range, its mid range.

morrolan.9608:

rotten.9753:

If both mainhand weapons are close range then it should be obvious we’d get a close range offhand. I’m puzzled why anyone would wish otherwise.

Scepter isn’t close range, its mid range.

Scepter is 0-900 range. Anything <600 range is pretty much close-range. 2/3 of the scepter is close-range.

Scepter is close-range.

Staff is 0-1200 range. Anything <600 range is pretty much close-range. 1/2 of the staff is close-range.

Staff can be called a close-range weapon too.

The only really mid/long-range weapons are ones with >1200 range attack (ie Ranger-longbow and Engineer-Mortar Kit)

morrolan.9608:

rotten.9753:

If both mainhand weapons are close range then it should be obvious we’d get a close range offhand. I’m puzzled why anyone would wish otherwise.

Scepter isn’t close range, its mid range.

It’s effectiveness at 900 range is really bad though, all the effective combos are close range, so it’s effectively a close-medium range weapon. D/? is definitely close range, and now tempest is also close range, leaving staff as the only long ranged weapon, which seems pretty wrong for a mage archetype.

Not to mention the least armoured, lowest HP class needing to channel 2.75-5sec skills in close range screams terrible design to me.

scerevisiae.1972:

morrolan.9608:

rotten.9753:

If both mainhand weapons are close range then it should be obvious we’d get a close range offhand. I’m puzzled why anyone would wish otherwise.

Scepter isn’t close range, its mid range.

It’s effectiveness at 900 range is really bad though, all the effective combos are close range, so it’s effectively a close-medium range weapon. D/? is definitely close range, and now tempest is also close range, leaving staff as the only long ranged weapon, which seems pretty wrong for a mage archetype.

Not to mention the least armoured, lowest HP class needing to channel 2.75-5sec skills in close range screams terrible design to me.

Absolutely it does, we still won’t have the survivability to survive on the frontline in WvW.

As for scepter that lack of effectiveness at 900 is exactly why it needs a rework and a complementary OH. Its more effective at close range but still not more effective than dagger hence there is no point using it.

I think Tempest looks great tbh. You do not need to overload attunements constantly, it is opportunity cost vs reward, ofc. Unless you have Fresh Air, then Overload Air is quite spammable.

Tempest WH has some absurdly good skills on it, many classes would kill to have them, compare it to Ranger WH, then tell me Tempest WH is bad…

Also, with the other aura traits and shouts applying auras, might and weakness, there is a lot of support options for spamming auras than there was before. I’m looking forward to trying the Auramancer Tempest out in my WvW group.

Why do people assume that Overload air is spammable… is a 6 second window between each cast considered spamming an ability? Do you really want to spam back to back 5 second channels in PvP? Seriously?

Enter air > wait 5 seconds to get Air Overload > cast Air overload (5 seconds) > swap from air to something else > cast something to get a crit > swap back to air > wait 5 seconds to get Air Overload > cast Air overload (5 seconds)

Total of 6 minimum seconds between casts. I doubt you can swap to another attunement while casting the overload. Most likely will cancel it as you’re no longer “in the correct attunement” and it’s an attunement specific skill.

Raif.9507:

Why do people assume that Overload air is spammable… is a 6 second window between each cast considered spamming an ability? Do you really want to spam back to back 5 second channels in PvP? Seriously?

Yes that is what I’d consider spammable (much like mantra heal on mesmer is spammable) and I think it would work because fresh air means you never truly have to fear interrupts. Whereas other builds will likely cover overload channels with cantrips, fresh air doesn’t have to, even if it gets interrupted with powerblock fresh air will just let it do it again and again and again. You also will probably trait it for shocking aura if you go this route so you’d have absurdly high uptime on it, and its a powerful defensive effect.

I feel like a Cele air/water/tempest D/WH (or D/D for extra frost aura share) build could work in this way. The rythms of the fresh air rotations and channels could account for the lack of arcane. It does sound a bit gimmicky, and there are probably better support options within tempest that are less spammy, but I think the build is sound in theory.

Raif.9507:

I doubt you can swap to another attunement while casting the overload. Most likely will cancel it as you’re no longer “in the correct attunement” and it’s an attunement specific skill.

Like switching from Fire to Water mid-meteor shower to take advantage of Piercing Shards? Nah, you’ll be able to start the cast and swap like any other spell.

Also I’m imagining you’ll be able to overload while wielding a Fiery Greatsword or Lightning Hammer for extra stats.

nearlight.3064:

Raif.9507:

Why do people assume that Overload air is spammable… is a 6 second window between each cast considered spamming an ability? Do you really want to spam back to back 5 second channels in PvP? Seriously?

Yes that is what I’d consider spammable (much like mantra heal on mesmer is spammable) and I think it would work because fresh air means you never truly have to fear interrupts. Whereas other builds will likely cover overload channels with cantrips, fresh air doesn’t have to, even if it gets interrupted with powerblock fresh air will just let it do it again and again and again. You also will probably trait it for shocking aura if you go this route so you’d have absurdly high uptime on it, and its a powerful defensive effect.

I feel like a Cele air/water/tempest D/WH (or D/D for extra frost aura share) build could work in this way. The rythms of the fresh air rotations and channels could account for the lack of arcane. It does sound a bit gimmicky, and there are probably better support options within tempest that are less spammy, but I think the build is sound in theory.

You need to complete the channel to get the shocking aura. Have fun attempting to finish that channel and not die before you do. At this time, the only overloads that I can see one being in an attunement long enough is Air and Fire due to lightning whip spam and burning speed/drakes breath. I don’t think the build is sound, but it has an interesting idea behind it. The overload needs that “crap I don’t want to be in this” feel and the damage it’s doing right now doesn’t have that feel. If the Overload (Fire/Air) is made into something that would make enemies in melee actively attempt to NOT be in it, then we can discuss this being a possible build.

Right now, the damage just isn’t there and what the Overloads offer isn’t anything different than what we currently can do anyway.

Raif.9507:

nearlight.3064:

Raif.9507:

Why do people assume that Overload air is spammable… is a 6 second window between each cast considered spamming an ability? Do you really want to spam back to back 5 second channels in PvP? Seriously?

Yes that is what I’d consider spammable (much like mantra heal on mesmer is spammable) and I think it would work because fresh air means you never truly have to fear interrupts. Whereas other builds will likely cover overload channels with cantrips, fresh air doesn’t have to, even if it gets interrupted with powerblock fresh air will just let it do it again and again and again. You also will probably trait it for shocking aura if you go this route so you’d have absurdly high uptime on it, and its a powerful defensive effect.

I feel like a Cele air/water/tempest D/WH (or D/D for extra frost aura share) build could work in this way. The rythms of the fresh air rotations and channels could account for the lack of arcane. It does sound a bit gimmicky, and there are probably better support options within tempest that are less spammy, but I think the build is sound in theory.

You need to complete the channel to get the shocking aura. Have fun attempting to finish that channel and not die before you do. At this time, the only overloads that I can see one being in an attunement long enough is Air and Fire due to lightning whip spam and burning speed/drakes breath. I don’t think the build is sound, but it has an interesting idea behind it. The overload needs that “crap I don’t want to be in this” feel and the damage it’s doing right now doesn’t have that feel. If the Overload (Fire/Air) is made into something that would make enemies in melee actively attempt to NOT be in it, then we can discuss this being a possible build.

Right now, the damage just isn’t there and what the Overloads offer isn’t anything different than what we currently can do anyway.

While I agree that the risk or using the overloads should be lowered OR the reward of using them should be raised, I beleive that the strategy should work in any situtation that doesn’t have a D/P thief or mantra mesmer. The amount of instant cast ranged interrupts from other classes is in general much lower, and only those two builds seem capable of interrupting the channel each time. So yeah its a gimmick, but its a cool gimmick.

Still I find it troubling that the design of the overloads is contradictory in that you need positioning to channel them, but if you LoS or go off a point to do so, you’re effectively wasting the skills ability to deal damage or support your allies because the effects are around your character and you’d need to get away from everyone else to properly position yourself for the channelmost of the time. Sometimes you can have both goals fulfilled (mid on forest, sidenodes on legacy, mid on khylo) but most of the time proper positioning for the channel will make them do less damage and less support.

Like I’ve said in my other threads I’d say that the risk/reward threshold should be adjusted by reworking some of the traits to make it easier to cover channel casts with stability/breakbars using tempest traits/shouts/skills or by simply making the overloads really really powerful.

nearlight.3064:

While I agree that the risk or using the overloads should be lowered OR the reward of using them should be raised, I beleive that the strategy should work in any situtation that doesn’t have a D/P thief or mantra mesmer. The amount of instant cast ranged interrupts from other classes is in general much lower, and only those two builds seem capable of interrupting the channel each time. So yeah its a gimmick, but its a cool gimmick.

What about hammer warrior with rampage?

The issue isn’t just ranged instant interrupts, it’s dodges and interrupt spam in general. The radius is so small that Guardian GS 5 can reach in and interrupt without getting hit, warrior hammer can just ignore it as it doesn’t do enough damage to make one wary of entering it and so on. Also, I’m going to go out on a limb and say dodges interrupt the cast too, so if you ever need to dodge while casting, it’s gone. 5 seconds is a lot to go through without dodging.

If the radius was bigger and there was more of a threat to entering the AoE of the overload, we may have something indeed. Air overload was ticking for barely more than lightning whip so it’s not too much of a threat, same with Fire. If you see a tempest Overload it should be a “I don’t want to be near this” type of thing, not a “Well, it’s not too much more than eating a lightning whip to the face w/e lets go”

I’d also like to see interaction with things like SoR (maybe make it so per tick of overload you get healed). I have a D/D build in mind with Tempest/Air/Arcana or water that could be interesting but the overloads aren’t just htere yet. Very close, but need a little more work on numbers and cast times. I was hoping that the Lucid Singularity would provide some stability (maybe a pulsing 1 stack per 2 seconds) so it can help cover it.

Also, the Water overload is pretty undwrwhelming and nowhere near worth it. Blackbeard did a great analysis of it right here that shows just swapping in and out of water is better than using the overload itself.

All the numbers need work and should go hgher and/or offer something else than what they do currently. As it stands, staying in an attunement to channel the overload isn’t worth it above doing standard rotations. Best example is water, there isn’t 5 seconds worth of action in Water for D/D for you to stay there to channel it. You have almost 2 seconds of just auto attacking till you get your Overload and needless to say, water auto is terrible so you’re just doing nothing effective for 2 seconds instead of swapping out to continue to be effective.

Grimreaper.5370:

I can’t help but find the tempest design to look underwhelming from a PvP perspective…

-Shouts probably wont replace Cantrips

-Being locked out of an attunement for 16+ seconds means very little use of overcharge, being locked out of attunements for longer than you already are is poor game design when it comes to the functionality of the elementalist.

-The majority didn’t want warhorn, we got warhorn. Hoped that warhorn could at least provide a unique playstyle, warhorn turns out to be another support based off hand weapon which doesn’t seem to offer a whole lot different compared to focus or OH dagger besides a water field and some ally boon application.

-If I try and live in a delusional fantasy world then maybe wash the pain away will see some use but lets be honest whos going to want to get rid of healing signet? Even if Wash the Pain away turns out to actually be decent when considering your allies, how many people will be selfless enough to use it?

Like a lot of you competitive spvp people I was really hoping to break out of the support role and play around with a sword main hand… I can live with this not being the case but after also seeing what the Temepest brings to the table I’m left very disappointed, I was hoping for something a bit more complex.

Anet, I plead you! Please reconsider the route you’re taking tempest!

100% agree

rotten.9753:

scerevisiae.1972:

Why oh why is it yet another close range option? dagger is already close range and sceptre is effectively close range as well.

support? we already do that on both S/? and D/?, we don’t need more.

and 2.75-5second channel, WTF are they smoking? Who is going to seriously channel for 2.75-5sec in WVW/PVP? Being locked out of attunements for 20sec?

I can’t see myself using any of the new stuff except just the warhorn. maybe.

If both mainhand weapons are close range then it should be obvious we’d get a close range offhand. I’m puzzled why anyone would wish otherwise.

The thing is… Scepter is meant to be a single target range weapon compared to the AoE range Staff. It is so bad however, that most just use it to spam air 2 with Fresh air as all the other skills are horribly weak. And then you might aswell go closerange to have a shorter travel time on phoenix.

Thing is, Scepter needs some work and your argument is sorta weak in light of that. If scepter would work correctly we’d only really have focus for it.

I also completly agree with the cost vs reward arguments. Right now they are far from being worth the channel – At least they changed them from being 180 range… Just imagine them right now with even less range…

Akuni.8604:

Thing is, Scepter needs some work and your argument is sorta weak in light of that. If scepter would work correctly we’d only really have focus for it.

How do you know scepter doesn’t work correctly? It has skills for both close range (e.g phoenix) and long range (air attunement). The same case as with staff – lava font is hardly effective at long range.

It’s pretty much that staff is used as a long range weapons and both one-handers as close range weapon. Ergo, a new offhand had to be a close range weapon. There was no difference in getting a sword instead of a warhorn except the former being a mainhand weapon and possibly being a different tool (no aoe support). People hating on sword just didn’t realise that they were asking for another close range weapon.

I agree with you on every single point, I don’t even main ele but I was looking at the stream and I was like “Yeah this sucks for elemenalists and mesmers” mesmers are getting cut out of their role a little bit with “rebound” (screams elementalist to me…) and elementalists well obviously are stuck with a decent in some ways but overall “meh” elite spec…

Also got to love the Digimon style “I’m gonna shout out my abilities before using them so they know exactly what to expect!” you know instead of an incantation or something maybe like the mesmers meditiations, those have always been really cool… Shouts on the other classes make sense like warrior/guardian because they are soldiers, elementalists are supposed to be amazing wielders of the elements… I’m sorry I can’t take any “mage” seriously if they are going to run around casting spells by saying the name of said spell word for word… though it is hilarious to think of a mesmer casting a portal and shouting “PORTAL ENTRE”

I don’t know what you’re QQing about. Ele is already the strongest class in the game.

What the hell. Can do power builds, condi builds (incinerator 11k burn per second), full healer builds, 1vs30 build, and now even Guard.. ehm.. Tempest.

It’s jack of all trades and master of ALL.

Kidel.2057:

I don’t know what you’re QQing about. Ele is already the strongest class in the game.

What the hell. Can do power builds, condi builds (incinerator 11k burn per second), full healer builds, 1vs30 build, and now even Guard.. ehm.. Tempest.

It’s jack of all trades and master of ALL.

Please show me this 1v30 build, I am intrigued.

Now we know why they took auras out of signets in the last patch.

Kidel.2057:

I don’t know what you’re QQing about. Ele is already the strongest class in the game.

What the hell. Can do power builds, condi builds (incinerator 11k burn per second), full healer builds, 1vs30 build, and now even Guard.. ehm.. Tempest.

It’s jack of all trades and master of ALL.

I hate this argument so much.
We have one build at the top and most Eles are sick of playing it because it’s pretty much the same gameplay we’ve had for years and that means we can’t have something new? I’d gladly trade Cele D/D for a better Tempest and more viable builds.

Malchior.5732:

Kidel.2057:

I don’t know what you’re QQing about. Ele is already the strongest class in the game.

What the hell. Can do power builds, condi builds (incinerator 11k burn per second), full healer builds, 1vs30 build, and now even Guard.. ehm.. Tempest.

It’s jack of all trades and master of ALL.

I hate this argument so much.
We have one build at the top and most Eles are sick of playing it because it’s pretty much the same gameplay we’ve had for years and that means we can’t have something new? I’d gladly trade Cele D/D for a better Tempest and more viable builds.

Tell me about it. I almost never play that OP build myself and I’m always lump into the cele d/d basket anyway.

Ele has such a huge range in risk vs reward builds that even if it is true that cele d/d is by far the most abused and unbalanced it feel so wrong to even try to make such generalizations.

rotten.9753:

Akuni.8604:

Thing is, Scepter needs some work and your argument is sorta weak in light of that. If scepter would work correctly we’d only really have focus for it.

How do you know scepter doesn’t work correctly? It has skills for both close range (e.g phoenix) and long range (air attunement). The same case as with staff – lava font is hardly effective at long range.

It’s pretty much that staff is used as a long range weapons and both one-handers as close range weapon. Ergo, a new offhand had to be a close range weapon. There was no difference in getting a sword instead of a warhorn except the former being a mainhand weapon and possibly being a different tool (no aoe support). People hating on sword just didn’t realise that they were asking for another close range weapon.

Well fir starters there’s the underwhelming AA on fire, earth and water, various casttimes which are frankly too long, “adjustments” which gave skills channel behaviour even though they were normal casts… Scpeter has issues. Fix them and probably not even half the people would play it close only. That said, all skills have a mid to long range and as someone pointed out above only because you use a longrange weapon close doesn’t make it a close range weapon plus if you use a ranged skill close that doesn’t make it a close range skill because it still /has/ the 600-900 range.
I’m seriously tired with this you use some skills close it’s close range argument. It’s a total strawman. And I might want to add that Rangers LB can outdps other ranger weapons even if used right infront of the enemy with the damage reduce. I guess that makes my 1500 range LB a close ranged weapon now. #facepalm

I think there was a mention of more elite specialization.
Tempest is not for everyone, but if you don’t like it, don’t pick it.
Later maybe we get a sword spec. Later maybe we get high arcana with 5th arcane attunement. Endless possibilities of elite specs.
Its not what about what you want, it is their concept, their design, and none of us forced to it.
They stated specifically that they don’t want elitespecs to be absolutly must.

Even if tempest turns out to be viable I will still hate it with its current design, it goes against the Ele way! down with the current tempest!

Taboria.3071:

I think there was a mention of more elite specialization.
Tempest is not for everyone, but if you don’t like it, don’t pick it.
Later maybe we get a sword spec. Later maybe we get high arcana with 5th arcane attunement. Endless possibilities of elite specs.
Its not what about what you want, it is their concept, their design, and none of us forced to it.
They stated specifically that they don’t want elitespecs to be absolutly must.

If by later you mean 3 years then yes. We are supposed to get another elite spec.

You know something is underwhelming when even WP can’t get excited about it.

Raif.9507:

Why do people assume that Overload air is spammable… is a 6 second window between each cast considered spamming an ability? Do you really want to spam back to back 5 second channels in PvP? Seriously?

That’s the problem with Anet’s balance basically. They give us a 5 second channel when a mesmer can interrupt you from stealth and burst you down in 1 second.

you are all very delusional if you think an overload build wold be viable, it would be like walking up to someone and attempting to meteor shower at melee range, you will die literally in the blink of an eye without channeling fully even once

Guilmon.9478:

you are all very delusional if you think an overload build wold be viable, it would be like walking up to someone and attempting to meteor shower at melee range, you will die literally in the blink of an eye without channeling fully even once

It’s like churning earth, it has 25% chance to work unless you have armor of earth, and even then it will make less damage than a backstab.

rotten.9753:

Akuni.8604:

Thing is, Scepter needs some work and your argument is sorta weak in light of that. If scepter would work correctly we’d only really have focus for it.

How do you know scepter doesn’t work correctly? It has skills for both close range (e.g phoenix) and long range (air attunement). The same case as with staff – lava font is hardly effective at long range.

Seriously! Scepter is entirely ineffective at its max range whereas staff clearly isn’t even if 1 or 2 abilities are sub par.

Xillllix.3485:

Guilmon.9478:

you are all very delusional if you think an overload build wold be viable, it would be like walking up to someone and attempting to meteor shower at melee range, you will die literally in the blink of an eye without channeling fully even once

It’s like churning earth, it has 25% chance to work unless you have armor of earth, and even then it will make less damage than a backstab.

MOST UNDERWHELMING SKILL IN THE GAME :| I really don’t want more long channels like churning earth, this is what this game needs to avoid >.<

Grimreaper.5370:

Xillllix.3485:

Guilmon.9478:

you are all very delusional if you think an overload build wold be viable, it would be like walking up to someone and attempting to meteor shower at melee range, you will die literally in the blink of an eye without channeling fully even once

It’s like churning earth, it has 25% chance to work unless you have armor of earth, and even then it will make less damage than a backstab.

MOST UNDERWHELMING SKILL IN THE GAME :| I really don’t want more long channels like churning earth, this is what this game needs to avoid >.<

Actually, we need less instant crap. If more skills in the game had cast times, it’d be much better for everyone.