Guild Wars 2

I try to fight around critters, then you can use the earth leap and rtl to disengage (lol)

It’s all about situation)))

LordByron.8369:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Outside of focus, no, Mesmer’s ability to escape IS terrible. You’re not going to tell me that a random chance to get swiftness out of a mediocre signet is going to make mesmers excellent at escaping? :P And what good build supports this setup? Mesmers must bring portals in wvw and pvp, phantasm mesmers bring their phantasm signet, which leaves only a single slot which they take blink; while shatter mesmers take a clone stun breaker, and have one free slot, usually for illusion of life. And that’s when they don’t take condition removal.

Mesmer is just a slooow class.

Are you saying that mesmer have troubles to escape? even with all buffs to stealth?

They may have some issues preventing opponent to flee but for sure they don t have any to get out of troubles.

My mistake, I meant chase and not escape.

Again…we’re talking about the ability to bow out of a fight. Mesmers are balanced in the fact that they have stealth options to get out of combat which makes up for their lack of swiftness buffs. Even then, most go with rune of the centaur which synergizes well with most mesmer builds anyway.

I play an 80 mesmer, which was my first main, and I"m now going back to. Their ability to disengage is leaps and bounds greater than my ele’s. Decoy (stealth, stun break), Blink (half the cooldown of lightning flash AND still a stun break), Mass Invisibility (another stealth). Also F4 for invulnerability. And if you have staff equiped that’s a blink every 20 seconds.

Thieves are just a joke. As stated before..best mobility, best burst, stealth when they still newb up the above.

Anyone who thinks an elementalist is more mobile and has a better ability to disengage greater than any profession save a necro just flat out has never played one for any length of time.

Mek.2947:

Anyone who thinks an elementalist is more mobile and has a better ability to disengage greater than any profession save a necro just flat out has never played one for any length of time.

Oh please. The truth is youre either mad or refusing to use the skills you have appropriately. I’ve played elementalist and ranger since launch and I have never had any trouble getting away from anyone, except for when I’m attunement locked.

No class in the game can keep up with RTL-flash-FGS unless they slotted the norn racial. Period. No, not even a thief.

And in the vast majority of cases, blowing the FGS to get away isnt even necessary because bads will stack chill on themselves from frost armor and RTL ignores movement impairing effects.

Oh good to know we need to use an elite skill on a 180 second cooldown for an escape….sounds balanced. I’ll say it again. YES, we have tools to escape; but, it doesn’t matter cuz every class can outlast our long cooldowns on those escapes. What don’t you get about the fact that all our escape skills have a 40+ second cooldown and other classes skills to counter them are under 20?

Mek.2947:

Oh good to know we need to use an elite skill on a 180 second cooldown for an escape….sounds balanced. I’ll say it again. YES, we have tools to escape; but, it doesn’t matter cuz every class can outlast our long cooldowns on those escapes. What don’t you get about the fact that all our escape skills have a 40+ second cooldown and other classes skills to counter them are under 20?

It is good to know, because apparantly a lot of people in this thread dont know it.

Trade off. We can get away or get rediculous mobility, but its going to cost us an elite cooldown. In WvW, 180seconds fora guaranteed escape from death isnt that bad, especially when you look at how bad/situational the other elite choices are.

Everyone agrees that the 40second cd on miss is stupid and unfair, but that doesnt mean we cant get away. Those other classes gap closers are all effected by movement impairing effects, and ours arent. Use them.

Who is really faster than us that we can’t get away? “Everyone but necros” as you said is a huge exaggeration.

• Thieves, sure. So burn the kitten elite.
• GS warriors? Warriors lose to ele’s 1v1. If you have to run, you’re out numbered and its worth burning the elite.
• GS rangers? Seriously is anyone having a hard time with GS rangers?
• Guardians? 1h sword is rare, most run staff and another 2h. Their 1200 teleport is on a 45sec cd, and very few even take it because they are all running shouts.
• Engies? These guys are all running HGH. They’re not going to catch anyone.
• Other ele’s? Seems fair.
• Mesmers? They’re not going to catch anyone, especially now that they’re not running 1h sword.

There is no such thing as outlasting someones escape. It’s not a race from the top of the map to the bottom. If you create distance, almost everytime they will give up. If they dont give up, you still created enough distance to drop combat and port.

This thread is an exaggeration of an issue for people who refuse to use CC’s or sacrifice elite skills to escape. Yes, it was nice when we could just RTL away like everyone else, no its not fair that everyone else can still do it, but it doesn’t mean we can’t escape or even that we have bad odds.

you know what grinds my gears?

You just listed every class as if they’re stuck to one weapon and can’t swap to another weapon set that affords them the mobility they need to come after you.

Mek.2947:

You just listed every class as if they’re stuck to one weapon and can’t swap to another weapon set that affords them the mobility they need to come after you.

No, I listed situations that were the absolute worst case and expanded on the reality of the situation. Not making note of the liklihood that someone uses a weapon is part of what makes your complaints so absurd.

It would be like rangers making threads about how bows arent viable because elementalists can chain swirling winds over a zerg. Focus simply isnt popular enough for that to be a serious concern.

• Guardians rarely use 1h sword or Judge’s Intervention because double 2h shout specs are the dominant meta. RTL+Flash outdistances JI+sword2 anyway. Complaining about Guardians being able to catch ele’s is rediculous.
• Mesmers gap closer combo was blink+sword3+sword3 again. That is less distance than RTL+flash and only usable with a target in range of sword 3. If they add a backwards facing Staff 2 beforehand, it is still less distance. Complaining about mesmers being able to catch ele’s is rediculous.
• Engineers cannot catch ele’s. They can come close to RTL with slick shoes (superspeed) + magnet. Have you ever, ever had an engineer catch you with slick shoes? No. No one uses that skill. Complaining about engineers catching ele’s is rediculous.
• Rangers have swoop on a 9-12 sec CD. Swoop is 1100 range. Greatsword is used with non-bunker power builds, usually paired with a longbow or shortbow. With shortbows range nerf, RTL+Flash will outrange half of the GS/bow rangers. Do elementalists have trouble fighting rangers who run GS/longbow power builds? No, not sense quickness was nerfed. Nor do many rangers run GS with how great 1hSword is, so most of them are slow. Complaining about rangers being able to catch ele’s is rediculous.
• Warriors often have GS for the mobility/evade. They are also the worst pvp class in the game. They are a threat only in a bad situation or 1vX, in which case using an elite to escape is a reasonable tradeoff for the game to ask of a player. Complaining about warrior’s being able to catch you is only fair if they could actually kill you when they got to you, otherwise, its rediculous.
• Thieves with shortbows are fairly common, though not as popular as D/D+D/P. RTL+Blink is faster than any non shortbow thief, especially after they have blown steal. Use the elite if they have a shortbow.

Thats a total of exactly 1 other class that could regularly catch you AND cause a problem if you dont blow an elite. Other classes wish they could say that.

Mek.2947:

I think what annoys me more than anything about this class is that you MUST stop and fight everyone that picks a fight with you. I can’t tell you how many times in WvWvW or in sPvP I simply just want to get from point A to B, and here comes the troll Ranger, Thief, Warrior, Mesmer, Guardian, Necro, Engi that will NOT leave you alone. I can’t run away because if I do they’ll just tear me down, so I’m forced to fight. I fight and then if I’m actually winning I feel like every class has a way to disengage (but OMG RTL was overpowered cuz god forbid if we could disengage like any other class). And every other class knows it because they actively seek us out since we have no way of escaping. Our cantrips, before their nerf just simply gave us like 3 seconds of breathing room before class X goes back to two buttoning our life away. I’m speaking from the perspective of an 80 Ele and 80 Mesmer. I definitely don’t feel like I’m constantly being trolled to death on my Mesmer like I do my ele.

Maybe it’s perspective. I certainly wanted to play my ele because I like the fact that it is a class that relies on synergy on multiple ability combinations rather than hitting 2,2,2,2,2,2,2 stealth, 2,2,2,2,2 like a thief. Definitely not bored playing an ele. Just get frustrated with the little reward you get from playing it well.

I agree with this. Prior to the recent nerfs, I had actually gotten pretty good at getting away from fights I didn’t want to have. Now I’m forced to fight, even though I’m not built for 1v1. On the occasion when I actually get the upper hand, the other person can almost always get away.

My #1 skills are pretty much the only damage I can do to a fleeing/kiting opponent, but those skills are cursed with the worst auto-attack base damage in the game, made worse because I play a profession that can not afford to spec more than 25% to 33% into DPS with out being a free kill.

Raven.9603:

Mek.2947:

You just listed every class as if they’re stuck to one weapon and can’t swap to another weapon set that affords them the mobility they need to come after you.

No, I listed situations that were the absolute worst case and expanded on the reality of the situation. Not making note of the liklihood that someone uses a weapon is part of what makes your complaints so absurd.

It would be like rangers making threads about how bows arent viable because elementalists can chain swirling winds over a zerg. Focus simply isnt popular enough for that to be a serious concern.

• Guardians rarely use 1h sword or Judge’s Intervention because double 2h shout specs are the dominant meta. RTL+Flash outdistances JI+sword2 anyway. Complaining about Guardians being able to catch ele’s is rediculous.
• Mesmers gap closer combo was blink+sword3+sword3 again. That is less distance than RTL+flash and only usable with a target in range of sword 3. If they add a backwards facing Staff 2 beforehand, it is still less distance. Complaining about mesmers being able to catch ele’s is rediculous.
• Engineers cannot catch ele’s. They can come close to RTL with slick shoes (superspeed) + magnet. Have you ever, ever had an engineer catch you with slick shoes? No. No one uses that skill. Complaining about engineers catching ele’s is rediculous.
• Rangers have swoop on a 9-12 sec CD. Swoop is 1100 range. Greatsword is used with non-bunker power builds, usually paired with a longbow or shortbow. With shortbows range nerf, RTL+Flash will outrange half of the GS/bow rangers. Do elementalists have trouble fighting rangers who run GS/longbow power builds? No, not sense quickness was nerfed. Nor do many rangers run GS with how great 1hSword is, so most of them are slow. Complaining about rangers being able to catch ele’s is rediculous.
• Warriors often have GS for the mobility/evade. They are also the worst pvp class in the game. They are a threat only in a bad situation or 1vX, in which case using an elite to escape is a reasonable tradeoff for the game to ask of a player. Complaining about warrior’s being able to catch you is only fair if they could actually kill you when they got to you, otherwise, its rediculous.
• Thieves with shortbows are fairly common, though not as popular as D/D+D/P. RTL+Blink is faster than any non shortbow thief, especially after they have blown steal. Use the elite if they have a shortbow.

Thats a total of exactly 1 other class that could regularly catch you AND cause a problem if you dont blow an elite. Other classes wish they could say that.

Rangers -could- catch an ele if they Hornet sting + Monarchs leap + LR + swoop onto you, but if you’re an event halfway decent ele and chill them they can’t keep up because they’d be like only Melee skills.

Durzlla.6295:

Rangers -could- catch an ele if they Hornet sting + Monarchs leap + LR + swoop onto you, but if you’re an event halfway decent ele and chill them they can’t keep up because they’d be like only Melee skills.

I guess… but there are more people running Norn racials in WvW than there are rangers who are both running double melee swaps AND good enough to do HS+ML on the chase with a gain. chasing someone doing this requires 2 near perfect 180 camera swaps, fleeing using this only requires one, and the turn-around-button isnt going to be fast enough to do it without a loss so this is going to basically be a skill-shot with the mouse.

This would also take take 10 seconds for the second swoop (weapon swap back to GS), which is going to require being able to keep the ele in combat somehow or the ele will port. so… now we have to add in dagger or warhorn offhand with offhand training? I dont think i’d be running from this guy because i’d be laughing too hard.

Raven.9603:

Durzlla.6295:

Rangers -could- catch an ele if they Hornet sting + Monarchs leap + LR + swoop onto you, but if you’re an event halfway decent ele and chill them they can’t keep up because they’d be like only Melee skills.

I guess… but there are more people running Norn racials in WvW then there are rangers who are both running double melee swaps AND good enough to do ML+LR on the chase with a gain. chasing someone doing this requires 2 near perfect 180 camera swaps, fleeing using this only requires one, and the turn-around-button isnt going to be fast enough to do it without a loss so this is going to basically be a skill-shot with the mouse.

This would also take take 10 seconds for the second swoop (weapon swap back to GS), which is going to require being able to keep the ele in combat somehow or the ele will port. so… now we have to add in dagger or warhorn offhand with offhand training? I dont think i’d be running from this guy because i’d be laughing too hard.

Lol I’d personally be using the axe for the pull and reflect, but yeah that build literally has no place in WvW, although I would be highly impressed if someone actually caught me using it

kitten ….You guys keep bringing up RTL can counter the one X skill on a class. Yes…ONE time…once the cooldowns are done on an ele they are DONE and the other class can catch up. Another class just simply has to wait a few seconds for our our cooldowns and then they’re on our kitten again. They don’t have to go across the map to accomplish this…just simply wait less than 20 secs.

Mek.2947:

kitten ….You guys keep bringing up RTL can counter the one X skill on a class. Yes…ONE time…once the cooldowns are done on an ele they are DONE and the other class can catch up. Another class just simply has to wait a few seconds for our our cooldowns and then they’re on our kitten again. They don’t have to go across the map to accomplish this…just simply wait less than 20 secs.

It only needs to counter it 1 time, because if you are out of range they either give up or combat breaks and you can port.

if you RTL+flash out of a fight, you have created a gap that can’t be closed except by 3 other classes (rangers, warriors, thieves), meaning you very rarely would be considering porting anyway. 2 of those classes are still helpless to kill you. That is not a bad position to be in, especially considering FGS can completely counter all 3 of them too, if youre willing to use it.

They are not helpless to kill you. A bunker ranger doesn’t die…has gap closers, can cripple you, not to mention his pet can also have CC like..immobilize..fear.. Good luck killing him with your kittenty dps as an elementalist when he does finally catch up to you. Usually when they catch up it’s just the two of us kitten slapping each other until someone else’s friends show up to help out. My point is..I can’t just run away and move on. If a ranger is set on trolling me well I gotta sit there and deal with it.

Warriors have no problem keeping up or escaping. Blade trail and Rush…both less than 20 second cooldowns. But not to worry though if they are. Switch to warhorn to grant swiftness and remove all movement impairing affects. Every weapon they have has a stun, immobilize, or cripple with less than a 20 second cooldown…most of them 10-15.. So glad I have RTL, LF(which no longer is a stun break), and Forst Armor on 40 + second cooldowns and occasionally FGS that requires you to stop to cast, an elite, can’t cast any of your other spells, and has a 180 second cooldown. How could he EVER possibly catch up to me.

Mesmers. This one I will concede could or could not keep up with you depeneding on different variables; however, it is NOT impossible. Pistol 5, or Focus 4 (probably have one or the other) Sword 3 which you can’t RTL out of. Their blink is only on a 30 sec cooldown and can even trait it for less and it’s a stun break. They can become invulnerable with F4. Many of them have Centaur runes that synergizes well with most of their builds and makes their heal a swiftness buff, that combined with focus 4, which many of them carry for mobility means they have perma swiftness and they can easily catch up after your cooldowns are blown. And let’s say they don’t have Centaur runes..they can still Blink within range after you use RTL to GS you in the kitten the whole time you’re running away. The only thing we can have close to perma swifitness is if we go with the Air Trait that gives our auras swiftness. So, no, it’s not impossible for them to chase down an elementalist. Oh and if the roles are reversed where they’re running away, they have their stealth and invisibilites on top of that. I don’t feel sorry for this class.

Thiefs…lol

Engineeers
Tool Kit : Box of Nails and Magnet 10 and 25 sec cooldowns respectively
Elixir Gun: Elixir F on an 8 sec cooldown
Bomb Kit: Glue on 25 sec cooldown
Grenade Kit: Freeze Grenade on 20 sec cooldown
Med Kit: 20 sec cooldown

Rocket Boots: Cures immobilize, crippled, and chill on a 20 sec cooldown

Guardian:
Chains of light on a 20 sec cooldown…lawl never seen that happen before
Hammer has a immobilize with 1200 range and 15 sec cooldown
Staff has swiftness on 15 sec cooldown

Now look at Elementalists escape skills
RTL – 40 second cooldown
Frost aura – 40 second cooldown
Frozen burst – 25 sec cooldown and they have to be in melee range
^ All the above pray you’re not on attunement cooldown in addition to the above. And lawl if the person chasing you removes your entire ONE condition you put on them with Frost or Frozen burst

Lightning flash – 40 second cooldown
THE OMG BEST SKILL EVER —FGS 180 sec cooldown, stop to cast, and can’t cast any other ability

so….please stop telling me that only one class can catch up. Every other class has either a swiftness or an anti movement ability or BOTH that they can use at least 2x’s some times 3 x’s more often then any of our escape skills.

Mek.2947:

They are not helpless to kill you. A bunker ranger doesn’t die…has gap closers, can cripple you, not to mention his pet can also have CC like..immobilize..fear.. Good luck killing him with your kittenty dps as an elementalist when he does finally catch up to you. Usually when they catch up it’s just the two of us kitten slapping each other until someone else’s friends show up to help out. My point is..I can’t just run away and move on. If a ranger is set on trolling me well I gotta sit there and deal with it.

A bunker ranger wouldn’t be using a greatsword, so one wont be catching up to you. fear not! that GS ranger is an easy kill my friend! Also, last patch killed the bunker spec. probably wont see them much longer.

Mek.2947:

Warriors have no problem keeping up or escaping. Blade trail and Rush…both less than 20 second cooldowns. But not to worry though if they are. Switch to warhorn to grant swiftness and remove all movement impairing affects. Every weapon they have has a stun, immobilize, or cripple with less than a 20 second cooldown…most of them 10-15.. So glad I have RTL, LF(which no longer is a stun break), and Forst Armor on 40 + second cooldowns and occasionally FGS that requires you to stop to cast, an elite, can’t cast any of your other spells, and has a 180 second cooldown. How could he EVER possibly catch up to me.

I said 3 classes could catch you (if, and only if, you flat out refuse to use FGS, which is just silly). warriors are one of them. the thing is, warriors cant actually kill elementalists, at least not by themselves. so… whats the problem?

Mek.2947:

Mesmers. This one I will concede could or could not keep up with you depeneding on different variables; however, it is NOT impossible. Pistol 5, or Focus 4 (probably have one or the other) Sword 3 which you can’t RTL out of. Their blink is only on a 30 sec cooldown and can even trait it for less and it’s a stun break. They can become invulnerable with F4. Many of them have Centaur runes that synergizes well with most of their builds and makes their heal a swiftness buff, that combined with focus 4, which many of them carry for mobility means they have perma swiftness and they can easily catch up after your cooldowns are blown. And let’s say they don’t have Centaur runes..they can still Blink within range after you use RTL to GS you in the kitten the whole time you’re running away. The only thing we can have close to perma swifitness is if we go with the Air Trait that gives our auras swiftness. So, no, it’s not impossible for them to chase down an elementalist. Oh and if the roles are reversed where they’re running away, they have their stealth and invisibilites on top of that. I don’t feel sorry for this class.

Why would you blow RTL during an immobolize? And we’re not debating ele’s ability to chase, we’re discussing ele’s ability to run away.

You have to assume everyone has swiftness. If you dont have permaswiftness and you are complaining about people catching you in wvw, you are flat out wrong. get perma or near perma swiftness. if you really dont know how to get it, we can cover it, but i think you are just trolling at this point.

RTL+flash = 2100 range.
Blink+sword3 combo will fail, you’re out of range. Blink wont be back up again until long after you’ve dropped combat.
Blink+GS could possibly keep you in combat, though GS is getting pretty rare with the increasing reliance on staff and shatter. Even still, there’s an elite for that…

Mek.2947:

Thiefs…lol

We discussed thieves!

Mek.2947:

Engineeers
Tool Kit : Box of Nails and Magnet 10 and 25 sec cooldowns respectively
Elixir Gun: Elixir F on an 8 sec cooldown
Bomb Kit: Glue on 25 sec cooldown
Grenade Kit: Freeze Grenade on 20 sec cooldown
Med Kit: 20 sec cooldown

Rocket Boots: Cures immobilize, crippled, and chill on a 20 sec cooldown

Now you are listing sources swiftness and snares? Look, you should have perma swiftness too, it all equals out. None of those snares or gap closers can equal RTL+flash range, even if used in tandom. Engineers can’t catch you.

Mek.2947:

Guardian:
Chains of light on a 20 sec cooldown…lawl never seen that happen before
Hammer has a immobilize with 1200 range and 15 sec cooldown
Staff has swiftness on 15 sec cooldown

Really. Chains of light is 900 range. it wont reach you after RTL, let alone RTL+flash. Not to mention how rare scepter is in wvw.
Hammers immobolize moves at the speed of the old phoenix in a straight line. its not hitting anyone who is 1200 away and running.
You have swiftness also.

Mek.2947:

so….please stop telling me that only one class can catch up. Every other class has either a swiftness or an anti movement ability or BOTH that they can use at least 2x’s some times 3 x’s more often then any of our escape skills.

I told you 3 classes could catch up, 2 of which are easy kills, and they can catch up if and only if you flat out refuse to use FGS. You ALSO have swiftness and antimovement abilities, which effect your enemies movement. On the otherhand, cripple and chill dont effect RTL or flakitten doesnt matter if they can use their escape skills more frequently, because the cooldown on them is at least long enough that you will have broken combat before then.

It’s actually pretty hard for most classes to catch a D/D Ele.

The reason why it feels like you have to fight everyone is because there are SO MANY roaming Thieves. That’s not because Eles are bad compared to everyone else, it’s just cause Thieves are way too good.

Edit: Best chasing power, best disengaging, highest burst. Who thought that was a good idea, especially since you can get all of them at the same time?

stale.9785:

- snip -
For mobility you have (let’s assume D/D or S/D)

- swap to air attunement (5 seconds swiftness)
- RTL (target a yellow critter for shorter cooldown, or live with the 40 seconds) (1200 leap skill)
- swiftness from GoeH if you’re using it (10 seconds swiftness)
- swap to fire, fire 3 (if mainhand dagger) (600 leap skill)
- lightning flash (900 range teleport)
- swap back to air attunement (swinging through water if snared)
- and repeat till you’re somewhere safe.

<- Lives in Australia, laughs when he reaches 1200 range and teleport lags back half the distance. Laughs when his fire 3 lags and the other players run past him. Uses a focus from then on and laughs at rangers who don’t know what it is so they continue to use their bow. MUHHHAHAHAHHAHAHA. Gets a better cleansing fire, a better mist form, reflect, projectile destruction and deals with the others kittene skills.

If you’re a D/D ele the only way you can get perma swiftness is if you get the Air I trait and waste your auras and swap in and out of air with the V trait in arcana. Oh and btw gg when your Frost Aura is on cooldown because you were using it to roam in the first place…point is we have to trait for it; other classes don’t.

Whether we can 1v1 a class or not is irrelevant. My original post was making the point that we MUST stop and fight practically everyone that picks a fight with us whereas other classes can troll across the entire map until they reach their zergs or keeps. Due to our long cooldowns, and squishiness we can’t afford to run while the other class is hammering us at range. I honestly can’t figure out what kittening math you’re doing to not understand that when 40 seconds of cooldowns are DONE…another class that has an ability on a 10, 15, 20, 25 sec cooldown can catch up.

Mek.2947:

If you’re a D/D ele the only way you can get perma swiftness is if you get the Air I trait and waste your auras and swap in and out of air with the V trait in arcana. Oh and btw gg when your Frost Aura is on cooldown because you were using it to roam in the first place…point is we have to trait for it; other classes don’t.

Same for wasting you heal on swiftness, this happened to me in PvP the other day, used my heal for swiftness (s/f so no movement skills) and a necro chased me to my death, had him so close too, if only I had a heal

Mek.2947:

If you’re a D/D ele the only way you can get perma swiftness…

Whether we can 1v1 a class or not is irrelevant. My original post was making the point that we MUST stop and fight practically everyone that picks a fight with us

Every class can get perma swiftness, and every class has to sacrifice either runes, trait choices or weapon choices or even heal choices to achieve it.

Taking Zephyr’s Boon and blowing frost aura is ridiculous, you’re right, the cd is too long and valuable. With 80-90% to all boon duration (one of the most common DD rune and food combinations…) swiftness into air lasts 8-9 seconds. Thats near perma swiftness just by attunement twisting, and full perma swiftness if you occasionally hit Shocking Aura. S/D is in the exact same situation, and can fill in with the occasional updraft. Staff has both windborne speed AND an air combo field.

There is also GoEH, inscription, runes of the centuar, runes of air… for any and all elementalists. perma swiftness is a fairly easily achieved thing.

You don’t have to stop and engage every class. You can outrun any of them at will with FGS. And almost all of them at will with just RTL+flash. If you are not willing to use the skills, thats unfortunate. It does matter if those classes can or cannot beat you. Is a ranger really going to put up a 30 second chase to swoop to you 3 times only to get stomped when you turn around on him a mile from his zerg? is a warrior? a thief has already been discussed.

Raven.9603:

You don’t have to stop and engage every class. You can outrun any of them at will with FGS.

well you can forget about this

(also being situational because you have to cast it and its on a huge CD and prevent you to use your skills…anyway will be nerfed soon as izzy said XD).

And almost all of them at will with just RTL+flash. If you are not willing to use the skills, thats unfortunate. It does matter if those classes can or cannot beat you. Is a ranger really going to put up a 30 second chase to swoop to you 3 times only to get stomped when you turn around on him a mile from his zerg? is a warrior? a thief has already been discussed.

You can escape if nobody follows you….but the best part is you can t catch anyone with them….

DiogoSilva.7089:

Outside of focus, no, Mesmer’s ability to escape IS terrible. You’re not going to tell me that a random chance to get swiftness out of a mediocre signet is going to make mesmers excellent at escaping? :P And what good build supports this setup? Mesmers must bring portals in wvw and pvp, phantasm mesmers bring their phantasm signet, which leaves only a single slot which they take blink; while shatter mesmers take a clone stun breaker, and have one free slot, usually for illusion of life. And that’s when they don’t take condition removal.

Mesmer is just a slooow class.

Actually mesmer is not slow at all – runes of the centaur + 15sec heal + 1200 blink then 900 focus pull, then 600 sword #3 leap and GG, or 1200 GS #4 cripple… chasing is pretty decent on my mesmer. Likewise for escaping – 100% swiftness uptime, blink, clones, invisibility… lots of tools.

Comparing my mesmer and Ele – the only place the Ele is better is in a full-on zerg-v-zerg clash or pitched support role, for everything else in WVW, mesmer is better, much better.

LOL to say that we’re the most mobile class and basing your argument on using FGS is just flat out wrong. I’m beginning to think you’re on A-net dev or something. Again…you stop to cast it, 180 sec cool down, can’t use your other abilities, oh it’s taking up your elite slot. Furthermore, it’s not that great if you’re in WvW if you are using it to engage other players. It does good damage, but you just shut off all your “versatility” that makes us sooooo OP. FGS is situational and in most instances it’s better to use glyph.

Oh and bring out the welcome mat for the incoming nerf to it too.

I didn’t say we were the most mobile class.

You are sitting here crying about how you cant get away from anyone, but the truth is RTL+Flash can get away from a lot of people, and FGS can get away from the few that it doesnt. If you create a little space before you cast it, its a lot less trouble. But if you cant be bothered CC’ing your enemies, waiting for immobolize to end before you RTL, or unslotting an elemental thats pretty terrible in wvw for an escape skill, and dont even try to get good swiftness uptime, you really deserve to constantly get caught and killed. People like that aren’t just bad, they’re too stubborn to improve. And thats cool, enjoy the respawn walk.

They didn’t say they were going to nerf fgs, they said they were keeping an eye on ele mobility and they liked that FGS was a good trade off (long cooldown for good mobiltiy, takes an elite slot). The forum took two unrelated comments, made a conspiracy and repeated it until it was “fact.”

Earth 3 is great if there’s enemies a head, or some random mobs. Bind yourself and leap. Yes, also do if its another enemy, if you’re in range to cast it they’ll prob attack anyway, why not use the leap then..

And I never said I don’t do all of the above. I’m saying that I do…and it still doesn’t work because for like the umpteenth time….I have 40 second cooldowns when the class chasing me has less than 20. I’m not saying it’s a 100% all the time thing. I’m just saying that it is a marked difference between playing my ele and playing other classes. You’re making it out like I believe I should be able to just use the arrow keys on the keyboard to escape. Contrary to your assumptions about me, I’m not a kittened monkey, and I know what the ele’s abilities are. My point again and again is that if another class is still bent on catching up to you they WILL , and it doesn’t take that long until every trick you have is on a cooldown.

I don’t know why it spawned such a bug up your kitten that I compared my experience with multiple classes. I know the tricks of the elementalist, and so far my ability to disengage and get to where I want to go is much more miserable then when I’m playing other classes in WvW. I doubt you’re as leet as you think you are, and that you get away as much as you say, but clearly you’re convinced that you are, so whatever….

Raven.9603:

I didn’t say we were the most mobile class.

You are sitting here crying about how you cant get away from anyone, but the truth is RTL+Flash can get away from a lot of people, and FGS can get away from the few that it doesnt. If you create a little space before you cast it, its a lot less trouble. But if you cant be bothered CC’ing your enemies, waiting for immobolize to end before you RTL, or unslotting an elemental thats pretty terrible in wvw for an escape skill, and dont even try to get good swiftness uptime, you really deserve to constantly get caught and killed. People like that aren’t just bad, they’re too stubborn to improve. And thats cool, enjoy the respawn walk.

They didn’t say they were going to nerf fgs, they said they were keeping an eye on ele mobility and they liked that FGS was a good trade off (long cooldown for good mobiltiy, takes an elite slot). The forum took two unrelated comments, made a conspiracy and repeated it until it was “fact.”

I don’t know about your tier of play, but in my tier, I get chased across the entire map. People do not give up. Ever. I cannot count the number of times I have been chased from bay to hills and up north. I can’t because it happens all the time because people know that they will catch you after using the RTL +LF combo. They will. They have 40 seconds to catch up using their gap closers. The only time they will give up is if I blow my elite. Then they go away.

A single RTL + LF is not enough to get away from them even if I chill them as after that combo, I have no other ways except swiftness to move about since the cooldowns are so long and the cooldowns of my chasers are much MUCH shorter. I HAVE to blow my elite to get away and pray that I get out of combat so I can hover with the waypoint window on in case it looks like I can’t.

Also this is dependent on you using D/D and not S/D which is becoming more popular. I know that on my S/D build it is much MUCH harder to run away due to the lack of chill from the main hand dagger 3 to chill those pesky melee and the lack of shocking aura.

And let’s not get started about trying to catch certain professions. A roaming spec (keyword here is spec) warrior is something you will not catch. A thief is highly dependent on what cooldowns they blew and how much time/initiative they’ve used and passed but more often than not, forget it. A ranger, depends. I’ve run into Greatsword/Sword rangers roaming in WvW, but they aren’t the norm. And with rocket boots an engineer could theoretically outrun you now, but I don’t see too many engineers running that either since it does’t exactly fit into a lot of the popular builds.

Raif.9507:

Raven.9603:

I didn’t say we were the most mobile class.

You are sitting here crying about how you cant get away from anyone, but the truth is RTL+Flash can get away from a lot of people, and FGS can get away from the few that it doesnt. If you create a little space before you cast it, its a lot less trouble. But if you cant be bothered CC’ing your enemies, waiting for immobolize to end before you RTL, or unslotting an elemental thats pretty terrible in wvw for an escape skill, and dont even try to get good swiftness uptime, you really deserve to constantly get caught and killed. People like that aren’t just bad, they’re too stubborn to improve. And thats cool, enjoy the respawn walk.

They didn’t say they were going to nerf fgs, they said they were keeping an eye on ele mobility and they liked that FGS was a good trade off (long cooldown for good mobiltiy, takes an elite slot). The forum took two unrelated comments, made a conspiracy and repeated it until it was “fact.”

I don’t know about your tier of play, but in my tier, I get chased across the entire map. People do not give up. Ever. I cannot count the number of times I have been chased from bay to hills and up north. I can’t because it happens all the time because people know that they will catch you after using the RTL +LF combo. They will. They have 40 seconds to catch up using their gap closers. The only time they will give up is if I blow my elite. Then they go away.

A single RTL + LF is not enough to get away from them even if I chill them as after that combo, I have no other ways except swiftness to move about since the cooldowns are so long and the cooldowns of my chasers are much MUCH shorter. I HAVE to blow my elite to get away and pray that I get out of combat so I can hover with the waypoint window on in case it looks like I can’t.

This. By the time your RTL and LF are ready again people have long since catched you because they can use their various gap closers 3-4 times while yours are on cooldown.

But if only 3 of those classes can actually catch up to you over time (if you dont use FGS), that is a lot different than having to “stop and engage every single enemy”, which is the OP’s complaint.

Raven.9603:

But if only 3 of those classes can actually catch up to you over time (if you dont use FGS), that is a lot different than having to “stop and engage every single enemy”, which is the OP’s complaint.

Seeing as 99% of the roamers in WvW seem to be thieves it is a VERY valid complaint.

Which is a problem with thieves, not a problem with ele’s.

Raven.9603:

Which is a problem with thieves, not a problem with ele’s.

Warriors, Mesmers, Rangers, etc. can get away from thieves, but an Ele needs to fight or die. That’s the problem.

Aether McLoud.1975:

Raven.9603:

Which is a problem with thieves, not a problem with ele’s.

Warriors, Mesmers, Rangers, etc. can get away from thieves, but an Ele needs to fight or die. That’s the problem.

Only about half the thieves are running shortbow (probably less) because d/p+d/d is so strong, not having a stealth option on both weaponsets is a huge risk, especially for roaming trolls, and RTL+flash is enough to get away and stay away from a non shortbow thief. Infiltrators arrow costs a lot of initiative and only really makes up substantial ground when z-axis gets involved.

But for those that are running from shortbow thieves, warriors and rangers can only get away with a specific weapon choice, a choice that is particularly bad for rangers. mesmers and eles can only get away with a specific elite choice, one that is fairly common for both classes. that doesnt put the ele in a bad spot, we are one of the few that can get away from them.

I play D/D ele and I can get away most of the time.

I 1v1 a thief and if his buddies show up I mistform switch to water attunement which clears a condition.

When mistform is up im dodgerolling to get EA cleansing wave to clear another condition

lightning flash away and switch to air to get swiftness and RTL, switch to fire and burning speed,

Ether renewal when needed. how can you not get away?

Are they on your kitten switch to earth and cripple them and/or earthquake.

on your kitten again? switch to air for swiftness and turn around and updraft, updraft will put you farther away from them

Lightning flash should be off CD….use again

Burning Speed when possible,

I ask again how do you not get away? lol use the tools that are given to you

And the whole time you’re doing this, the other classes don’t have any cooldowns of their own to catch up with you right?

Mek.2947:

And the whole time you’re doing this, the other classes don’t have any cooldowns of their own to catch up with you right?

they do, what im saying is I get away most of the time, i don’t see how you cant… post patch i got chased by 5 guys from behind overlook all the way to QL before i got cut down (i was too deep in enemy territory trying to gank solo) so…i don’t know what your problem is.

Edit: granted I was borderline almost dead some of the time while being chased but still covered more than half the map in EB before I died

Edit: also use terrain to your advantage. Terrain is OP

Necros are the slowest class. My friends are Eles and they laugh at me.

I kinda love this thread

tl:dr I have a less chance to run away from other classes that sacrifices their in combat sustain for mobility which makes them easier kills.

The fact that guardians were ever included in the “EVERY OTHER CLASS CAN GET AWAY” statements pretty much proves that the QQ’ers in here have no idea what they’re talking about.

2 out of 3 of guardians’ gap closers require a target and can’t be relied on for escape. The 1 gap closer that we can use for escape is on the greatsword and only has a pathetic 600 range.

Thats not enough to get away so you’d have to have staff as you’re second weapon set. only thing thatll help you there is 8 seconds of swiftness on a 15 sec cd (something most classes should be able to keep up with) and wall of warding.

Wall of warding itself can be hard to place correctly (and most people don’t know how to place it) AND unless its cast right on top of the person chasing you, they can easily just walk around the kitten thing or pop stability and ignore it.

Only other option would be to take retreat or save yourselves as a utility but tbh do you really want to waste a utility slot on something solely for escaping? especially when there are more crucial utilitys for wvw like stand your ground and wall of reflection.

So basically the only guardian with an ability to escape effectively would be a greatsword/staff guard with 30 pts into virtues for the boon duration, 20pts into honor for 20% recharge on 2h weapons, plus a food buff for boon duration.

To think there are many of those running around is absurd.

TL,DR: Saying “every” other class can escape more effectively than ele’s is asinine and kinda proves that you are just QQ’ing or don’t know what you are talking about.

But all of that is beside the point, the 8 classes are not meant to be equal at the same things. they all have their own niche where they out perform the other 7 classes.

Of topic, but please no more QQ about theives. Learn to control their movements and outsmart them. They drop like flies when they start taking damage.

Redscope.6215:

Eles are extremely powerful bunkers and healers. They either had to nerf the bunker or nerf the mobility side.

where is this “extreme power” you talkin’ ’bout? I only see a class who has to choose to either deal decent (not “extreme”, just decent) damage but be confined to have 1HP, or be able to replenish its HP pool quite often but not be able to kill even ambiental mobs for the lack of damage output.

Do you even Mesmer? I do: clones, stealth, average HP higher than Ele, weapon swap, teleport, extremely (this is extreme) high damage output, one of the best (if not THE best) downed state of the game.

Do you even Thief? I do: select target, press Win.

Of course I could continue (the best gap closers pertain to other classes, but just try to catch a warrior with an Elementalist if he decides to flee…), but you get the picture and I am kinda bored to repeat the same stuff over and over again since summer 2012.

Grevender.9235:

Redscope.6215:

Eles are extremely powerful bunkers and healers. They either had to nerf the bunker or nerf the mobility side.

where is this “extreme power” you talkin’ ’bout? I only see a class who has to choose to either deal decent (not “extreme”, just decent) damage but be confined to have 1HP, or be able to replenish its HP pool quite often but not be able to kill even ambiental mobs for the lack of damage output.

http://youtu.be/PD1S_sP90Ao
This is just decent? Its even better now that Fresh Air is in.

Grevender.9235:

Do you even Mesmer? I do: clones, stealth, average HP higher than Ele, weapon swap, teleport, extremely (this is extreme) high damage output, one of the best (if not THE best) downed state of the game.

Do you even Thief? I do: select target, press Win.

That really has nothing to do with what he said about ele’s being good bunkers and good healers with above average mobility. Yes, mesmers are very good also.

Grevender.9235:

Of course I could continue (the best gap closers pertain to other classes, but just try to catch a warrior with an Elementalist if he decides to flee…), but you get the picture and I am kinda bored to repeat the same stuff over and over again since summer 2012.

Warrior escapes are all effected drastically by movement impairment effects which the ele has in abundance. Yes, someone running melandru, lemongrass AND dogged march are going to be hard to slow down… but how many somebodys do you think that really is? Still slower than FGS, thats for sure.

What is wrong with some of you people? My staff ele without lightning flash or fiery great sword never has issues getting from point A to point B.

You don’t have to out run people completely just enough to out heal the damage they land on you while chasing. Most peoples damage out put drops when trying to chase some one down.

If you’re in staff, you can cast ground AoE behind you and use the about face to do some nifty things.

If D/D, Earthquake > Magnetic Grasp > RTL > updraft > Burning speed.

I havent even mentioned the disengagement potential of Fiery GS.

Or how an Ele can Juke well underwater and has access to stealth.

Thing annoys me most about Eles: I struggle transitioning to other classes that dont have the same mobility, cleansing and respnsiveness of certain skills.

Other than that, Evasive Arcana spoils you and messes up legitimate dodging/endurance management.

And how I cant break away from the 0/0/0/20/20 skeleton build

Basedgod.7328:

Thing annoys me most about Eles: I struggle transitioning to other classes that dont have the same mobility, cleansing and respnsiveness of certain skills.

Other than that, Evasive Arcana spoils you and messes up legitimate dodging/endurance management.

And how I cant break away from the 0/0/0/20/20 skeleton build

That’s why I don’t use evasiva arcana. And yes the skeleton build. But I think once you’re able to get used to swapping less by lowering the points in arcana you’ll be able to switch and enjoy other classes also.

Raven.9603:

http://youtu.be/PD1S_sP90Ao
This is just decent?

it is, as long as there is someone who can pull out bigger numbers with way less effort.

That really has nothing to do with what he said about ele’s being good bunkers and good healers with above average mobility.

it has, since that was being used as an argument supporting his theory.
Also keep in mind I am always referring to the ratio efforts/results: it’s completely useless to be able to nail a table with a pen, if you can use an hammer.
As I stated somewhere else, the recent traits revamp is a much appreciated shy first step toward what a TRUE class balance should be.

Warrior escapes are all effected drastically by movement impairment effects which the ele has in abundance.

so what? Ele still have to press 48734587 buttons to do what other classes do faster and better with two or three.
I said it many times: Elementalist class critically lacks a “rewarding feeling”. Unless smashing keyboards to just walk makes you feel “pro”, that’s it.

Mek.2947:

Maybe it’s perspective. I certainly wanted to play my ele because I like the fact that it is a class that relies on synergy on multiple ability combinations rather than hitting 2,2,2,2,2,2,2 stealth, 2,2,2,2,2 like a thief. Definitely not bored playing an ele. Just get frustrated with the little reward you get from playing it well.

I really think you are just a terrible player which explains why you even mention HS spam and it also explains why you get little reward. Because you don’t play it well. Also I’ve noticed that a lot of elementalists (not all but a nice chunk) seem to think in their minds that they are superior to all other players because they have to click more buttons. Kinda funny really.