Guild Wars 2

I would rather then change it to give either:

1) Increase Toughness by 50%

or

2) Increase Toughness by 50% of Condition Damage

give lightning touch the ability to cause daze. reduce cooldown to 6s

@Nageth
I won’t use the reply button since it’ll be too long.

Sorry, let me rephrase it. The word I’m looking for is not “Passive” but rather “Universal”.

In the example you gave regarding Regen and Condi Removal, you highlight that you can remove conditions while in any attunement as long as you apply Regen. It doesn’t explicitly require you to be in Water Attunement.

Now your problem is that for Stone Heart to work, you explicitly need to go to Earth.

What you want is something more “Universal” like Condi Cleanse on Regen which doesn’t explicitly require you to enter one attunement to be useful. What you want is a fair idea, but that doesn’t mean Stone Heart will be completely useless.

What Earth Magic traits would synergize well with Stone Heart and why?
For builds that has access to 2 or more Auras (if you have Fire’s Embrace and Signets), it would be Elemental Shielding, and Rock Solid. Armor of Earth would be good for defensive purposes, Stone Splinters for offensive builds.

Elemental Shielding will give you protection in any attunement as long as you activate an Aura. This means 33% damage reduction overall.

Rock Solid paired with Ether Renewal means you won’t necessarily need to go deep (or not at all) in Water Magic for condition cleansing. Ether Renewal removes 8 conditions on a 15 second cool down with a 3.5 seconds channeling time. Conditions are so easy to apply, no matter what build you use you will never be free of conditions so I don’t really see a point in stacking too much condition removals. If you still want more condition cleanses without going for Water Line, you can get Cleansing Fire. The key here is to know when to cleanse your conditions.

Armor of Earth gives you extra Protection and Stability which would synergize well with Ether Renewal and gives you an extra bump to your defense.

Stone Splinters for offensive builds.

In short, as long as you get Rock solid and use Ether Renewal as your heal, you won’t necessarily need to go for Water Magic.

Not getting any point for Water Magic means I’ll lose Vitality and Healing Power
Yes, you will have less Vitality and Healing Power but you should always take note of your EHP (Effective Health Pool). Since you are going GM on Earth Magic, it means you will have 300 more toughness with an additional 120 toughness when attuned to Earth. You will also have constant 33% damage reduction if you opt for Elemental Shielding. Having a high armor and easy access to Protection would mean you won’t have to heal as much. If you still want more HP/Healing, get it through your Armors, Runes, or Trinkets.

Why do you think Stone Heart is good?
Because it will give you an Active Defense against Power Builds. Like I said over and over again, to maximize the effects of Stone Heart you need to learn how to predict when your enemy is going to burst so you can switch to Earth to negate it.

If thieves were able to burst you down in seconds before, with Stone Heart and proper timing of activation, you will now have a fighting chance against them. The same goes for other Power builds. Of course, what you do after you negate their burst still matters. They can simply burst you again once you get out of Earth so you need to properly think of how to react on different situations.

Does this mean Power Builds are totally useless against Stone Heart builds?
As pointed out a couple of times already, Earth Attunement skills lack DPS.. If an Elementalist chooses to stay in Earth, he’ll be of no offensive threat.

Earth weapon skills lack damage. If I stay in it too long, I can survive crits but I can’t deal decent damage
You basically take advantage of Stone Heart to buy yourself some time to think of your next step. Since your enemy will know that it will be pointless to spam high cooldown skills (unless you’re really low), he will save it until you swap out of earth. You can literally stay in Earth and wait for other attunements and utilities to be available.

When should I switch to Earth for Stone Heart then?
When you predict that your enemy will burst you. Most of the time, players will initiate with a CC and follow it up with a burst. This will be easy for moves that you can easily telegraph like Shatter, Backstab (as long as you know a thief is lurking in stealth), Warrior Mace/Bull’s Charge + 100B combo, Warrior Hammer Combo, Kill Shot etc. For other bursts that are not easy to telegraph, you will need to use your instincts and reflexes.

Why take Stone Heart instead of other GM traits
There are other GM traits that are good too. Fresh Air, Cleansing Water, Evasive Arcana, I think Blinding Ashes might be really good too depending if the ICD is per target or not. The same goes for Elemental Contingency, if the ICD of the boons are per Attunement like EA, I’d like to try out some builds with it.

So back to the question. One of the biggest banes of an elementalist is that it’s really squishy especially to burst attacks. You can stack up all the Toughness and Vitality you want but Critical Hits from zerker builds will still deal massive damage. Stone Heart is the direct answer against this weakness. If you are skilled enough to use it properly, this trait will be very rewarding.

Since I am putting 30 points in a defensive trait, what will happen to my damage? What about attunement recharge?
Luckily Stone Splinters is available at the Adept Master Tier so you can get a free 10% damage when in 600 range. This would mean though that you can’t get Elemental Shielding. Well, welcome to life where you can’t get the best of both worlds (unless you’re a Warrior /pun intended).

As for Attunement Recharge, this will be a matter of preference. For Dagger builds I personally always want at least 20 points in it for Elemental Attunement but I’ve tried Dagger builds with 0 points in Arcana. Fresh Air builds will be able to live with even at least 5 points in Arcana. Remember, traits are just a part of the equation. Get the stats you’re lacking from Armors, Runes, and Trinkets.

As for builds and trait distribution, my best advice would be Never think that you’re locked to put points in Arcana and Water lines. Try out different builds, traits, armors, trinkets, and runes. Think. If you have 3k armor and 1000 Healing Power, would you still need 18k HP? If I use DD and have Soothing Mist, Healing Ripple, and Cleansing Wave, do I still need Evasive Arcana for the extra heal proc? Maybe I can put it in an offensive stat to balance it out.

What builds do you think are possible to use with Stone Heart?
S/X Fresh Air – Stone Heart – 0/30/30/0/10
D/X Power Hybrid/DPS Stone Heart – 0/10/30/0/30, 0/20/30/0/20
D/X Bunker Stone Heart – 0/0/30/10/30, 0/0/30/20/20, 0/0/30/30/10
D/X Power DPS Blinding Ashes – Stone Heart – 30/10/30/0/0, 30/0/30/0/10

As for condi builds, I’m still theory crafting. I still don’t think Elementalist is as good as Warrior in stacking bleeds so I’ll have to try more builds in PvP hotjoins.

d/d will come back and hit really hard. I’m so excited now. So many ideas already.
Can’t wait to whip my ele out again. I’ve felt really awk on thief for wayyy too long..
I don’t agree that they should all be grandmaster though.
blinding ashes cud be master..

Lets use backstab ok with stone heart no prot

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

ascended dagger for 1000 weapon strength.

1000*2100*2.4/2600 = 1939 (rounded up) Thats how much the backstab hits you for in earth with stone heart. You should be able to dagger 5 that or water trident that damage. This is with very little investment in toughness (just full knights armor with weaps gets you 2600 toughness with 30 earth)

a little more realistic(just a quick throw together build)

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/elementalist/?1.0|8.1c.0.8.1c.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|1n.0.1n.0.1c.0.1n.0.1c.0.1n.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|2t.0.2v.0.21k.0.21k.0.31k.0.2v.0|0.0.u000.k00.k00|0.0|0.0.0.0.0|e
(above gives you stone flesh calculated in)

1000*2100*2.4/2998 = 1681 damage from a backstab

if the thief has 90 crit damage

1939*2.4 = 4653.6

1681* 2.4= 4034

If you swap to earth before the backstab lands you just voided his critical damage. less damage means less you need to heal to recover. You could use one heal skill to recover the backstab damage with no crit you need 2 heal skills or to use ether/glyph to recover that damage back if it were to crit

This is a anti hidden killer trait, anti fury, anti critical damage. It’s very strong it requires sacrifice from your comfort zone but this trait is going to be good.

Now, they just need to make Earth skills actually be useful. Or is this just another attempt to try and force us into attunement dancing. Because the moment you go into Earth – You are no threat.

Now of course this isn’t to say that i want Earth to be the best all aorund amazing damage, amazing support, amazing mobility everything sort of attunement but it is currently lacking in my opinion.

Dagger – The Auto attack is shockingly poor and next to useless in most cases. Ring of Earth is okay. Can be decent but nothing more than that. Magnetic Grasp again, okay when it works. Very slow projectile and easily dodged or moved out of range from.

Scepter – Better auto attack than Dagger, requires a target which makes useless against stealth. Though if used as they go into stealth the attack will continue to hit. After that you have a blind and thats it that could affect them. This is an issue with the Scepter in every attunement. You would be stuck in Fire dropping Dragons Tooth and using Phoenix hoping to get a lucky hit

I just think, the trait while decent won’t really be that effective considering that everyone will know about it and will just keep attacking the ele until they are forced out of Earth to heal. Once that happens thats when all the burst will happen.

Question:

How much Toughness would someone need to make Crit hits hit like normal damage?

Not sure if its possible to get that much though. Thinking maybe a direct Toughness increase trait say 50% increase would be a better option seeing as that would be effective in all attunements

Vissarion.6509:

These are all so bad, sorry arenanet but this is not even a good try, THESE WONT MAKE ME CHANGE ANYTHING ON MY BUILD.

Remove the cd on fire trait.
Make the earth immune to critical a buff when u attune to earth (lets say for 5seconds) instead of perma buff while you are attuned to earth, eles get on an attunement use their cooldowns and they are out, how is this going to be any usefull??

Air and Water no comments, just terrible choices noone will pick.

Only viable may be the arcana one, but evasive arcana is still a much wider better choice, throwing 4 skills for 4 boons that 3 of them can have easy access anyway, is just BAD!!!

Sorry arenanet better luck next time.

Did you miss the part where they said the new traits weren’t meant to compete with current builds? They are present to potentially open NEW options, not upgrades to current options. Which means the point is to try and see if you can get any decent NEW build based on them, not see how well they fit into your current build.

Quite frankly if you’re the type who ’doesn’t change anything on your build’ then you’re just one of them who follows the people who actually do change things, experiment and discover synergies. So what you do or don’t do isn’t particularly important in the big picture.

Sorry, better luck next time.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

How much Toughness would someone need to make Crit hits hit like normal damage?

The actual answer is that it will vary depending upon the enemy’s build and attack skill. Using ozii’s backstab numbers, around 7.2k armor. Good luck with that…

Fenrina.2954:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

How much Toughness would someone need to make Crit hits hit like normal damage?

The actual answer is that it will vary depending upon the enemy’s build and attack skill. Using ozii’s backstab numbers, around 7.2k toughness. Good luck with that…

Lol.

Mmmmmmm, So what would say a 6k hit become if you had 3,000Toughness which would be about 4,000Armor.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Mmmmmmm, So what would say a 6k hit become if you had 3,000Toughness which would be about 4,000Armor.

Oh woops, I knew I was forgetting something. That’s suppose to be armor, not toughness. I’ll do the math later though if no one picks it up.

Kyon.9735:

Does this mean Power Builds are totally useless against Stone Heart builds?
Theoretically your enemies will only have a 4-6 second window to burst you if you take 15-30 points in Arcana for Lingering Elements assuming that you attune back to Earth as soon as it is available. However, you can’t always maintain the same kind of rotation because you will need to switch attunements based on the situation. Sticking to a static skill rotation is like giving yourself a handicap. You need to swap your attunements to adapt.

You might want to re-read what lingering elements actually does (despite displaying a completely incorrect description): http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lingering_Elements

The most important part is at the bottom:

This trait only functions with Soothing Mist, Flame Barrier, Zephyr’s Speed and Stone Flesh

So it works only with the five point minors, not with any other minor and very much less any selectable trait. So it won’t extend the duration of stone heart either. So were talking about 1-3 seconds uptime of stone heart in a normal rotation.

Columbo.5924:

You might want to re-read what lingering elements actually does (despite displaying a completely incorrect description): http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lingering_Elements

The most important part is at the bottom:

This trait only functions with Soothing Mist, Flame Barrier, Zephyr’s Speed and Stone Flesh

So it works only with the five point minors, not with any other minor and very much less any selectable trait. So it won’t extend the duration of stone heart either. So were talking about 1-3 seconds uptime of stone heart in a normal rotation.

They could always change the trait. I mean, it would be rather wasted if they made it so that it would have such a SHORT duration when in combat. Decent potential with Lingering Elements if it works, if not – Rather weaker.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Fire is meh, the whole traitline is rather poor. So you burn someone and blind them great for Scepter and its Auto attack, average for anything else and weakened due to the trait line it is in

Air. Yawn. Terrible.

Earth is TERRIBLE. It has very average skills and is pretty terrible when going with D/D at the very least. This trait wont be taken by quite a few i dont think. Being in Earth and with D/D you are not a threat so not being able to be Crit hit means nothing.

Water. Terrible.

Arcane. Terrible. No chance it would be taken over Evasive Arcana.

You can’t be serious…

If you think these traits are bad, look at the Warrior traits. Hell, look at the Warrior section in general. There is literally not a SINGLE nice thing to say on there, and our traits are either put in the WRONG places, are flat out useless as Grandmaster traits, or are out shined by other traits that do the job better.

Fire: Blind is THE BEST damage mitigation int he game. This isn’t even up for debate. This is a great defensive trait, and I can only imagine AoE blinding groups with the staff.

Air: Turns your interrupts into an attack that also weakens. Not the best choice, but still okay.

Earth: I cannot fathom how ANYONE could say this trait is bad. It is the best trait I’ve seen thus far. You are literally KILLING Zerker builds, and only allowing them to benefit from 1 out of their 3 core stats. YOU ARE MAKING 2 OF THEIR MAIN STATS USELESS. THIS IS GOOD.

Water: Increased healing in groups. Pretty much as must for anyone running Healing Power (and makes it actually viable).

Arcane: This is more for bunker builds. Pop between Fire and Earth attunement, and you’ll be soaking up hits, and laughing your way to the bank as your opponents attacks bounce back at them.

Honestly, I can’t wait to get my Ele from 60 to 80. These additions sound AMAZING, and Eles got nothing but buffs.

McFribble.2349:

You can’t be serious…

Fire – Wow a Blind every 5 seconds as a Grandmaster trait…

Air – I dunno. It just seems rather poor. Not quite sure about it until the damage is stated and such for this one

Water – Increased healing to everyone but the ele, who already have terrible sustain…

Earth – So immune to Crit inside a rather poor attunement. You wont be a threat what so ever inside it. It just means it will take longer to kill you. Doesnt work with Lingering elements either (currently)

Arcana – Meh. Wont ever be taken over Evasive Arcana.

i’d gladly trade these 5 new traits for this following image to be the arcane 5 point trait..

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

McFribble.2349:

You can’t be serious…

Fire – Wow a Blind every 5 seconds as a Grandmaster trait…

Air – I dunno. It just seems rather poor. Not quite sure about it until the damage is stated and such for this one

Water – Increased healing to everyone but the ele, who already have terrible sustain…

Earth – So immune to Crit inside a rather poor attunement. You wont be a threat what so ever inside it. It just means it will take longer to kill you. Doesnt work with Lingering elements either (currently)

Arcana – Meh. Wont ever be taken over Evasive Arcana.

Fire: Completely avoid an attack every 5 seconds. You take an offensive ability and also make it defensive. This is EXACTLY what Eles have been crying to have for what seems like forever. (If this was given to Warriors every time they bled someone, you would be SCREAMING OP at the top of your lungs).

Air: Fully agree. Until we see actual numbers, it is up in the air….heh.

Earth: This works amazingly with Power/Vit/Condition builds. Pop all your conditions on your opponent, and bunker him to death. It still works decently for any other build fighting against Zerker. I just don’t see how you CAN’T think this is good, and single handedly make Earth attunement worth focusing on.

Water: This grandmaster trait is not for solo play. It is for those looking to be a group healer. Not all traits need to focus on turning the Ele into a Pow/Pres/Crit damage class. Just admit it is a great trait that you will probably not use because you don’t want to be a group healer.

Arcane: For those looking to run a condition/bunker build (as stated above) it sure as hell will be picked. Seeing as how you can have two attunemnts active at a time, you can benefit from two of the effects in one proc if your timing is right. Getting Protection AND Retaliation at once is pretty great. Keep in mind too, that their duration is further increased from what is read, since going 30 points into Arcane grants 30% Boon Duration increase.

We won’t know until we can try these traits out ourselves, but I think you are having a bad case of, “Everyone but MY class is good” mentality with this update.

Columbo.5924:

Kyon.9735:

Does this mean Power Builds are totally useless against Stone Heart builds?
Theoretically your enemies will only have a 4-6 second window to burst you if you take 15-30 points in Arcana for Lingering Elements assuming that you attune back to Earth as soon as it is available. However, you can’t always maintain the same kind of rotation because you will need to switch attunements based on the situation. Sticking to a static skill rotation is like giving yourself a handicap. You need to swap your attunements to adapt.

You might want to re-read what lingering elements actually does (despite displaying a completely incorrect description): http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lingering_Elements

The most important part is at the bottom:

This trait only functions with Soothing Mist, Flame Barrier, Zephyr’s Speed and Stone Flesh

So it works only with the five point minors, not with any other minor and very much less any selectable trait. So it won’t extend the duration of stone heart either. So were talking about 1-3 seconds uptime of stone heart in a normal rotation.

Maybe it was my bad to assume that they’d change it for Stone Heart and would completely invalidate what I said regarding having 4-6 second window time to get bursted in which I would apologize. But even if it they decide not to make it work with Lingering Elements, it doesn’t make Stone Heart useless at all. It will stay the same and will still be situational, you still swap into earth when you predict an incoming burst.

1-3 seconds uptime on a normal rotation? Seems like people are misunderstanding the purpose of this trait. You get this trait as an Active Defense, not a Passive Defense. You get this trait to negate an incoming burst which gives yourself breathing time to counter. You cannot negate all bursts but this is certainly better than not being able to negate any. People keep on pointing out you can’t use it most of the time, you’re not supposed to. You’re not supposed to stay in Earth forever as either.

If I know that my enemy is waiting for me to swap out of Earth, I’ll stay in it until I can think of a plan on what to do next which is infinitely better than letting him be able to burst me anytime.

McFribble.2349:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

McFribble.2349:

You can’t be serious…

Fire – Wow a Blind every 5 seconds as a Grandmaster trait…

Air – I dunno. It just seems rather poor. Not quite sure about it until the damage is stated and such for this one

Water – Increased healing to everyone but the ele, who already have terrible sustain…

Earth – So immune to Crit inside a rather poor attunement. You wont be a threat what so ever inside it. It just means it will take longer to kill you. Doesnt work with Lingering elements either (currently)

Arcana – Meh. Wont ever be taken over Evasive Arcana.

Fire: Completely avoid an attack every 5 seconds. You take an offensive ability and also make it defensive. This is EXACTLY what Eles have been crying to have for what seems like forever. (If this was given to Warriors every time they bled someone, you would be SCREAMING OP at the top of your lungs).

Air: Fully agree. Until we see actual numbers, it is up in the air….heh.

Earth: This works amazingly with Power/Vit/Condition builds. Pop all your conditions on your opponent, and bunker him to death. It still works decently for any other build fighting against Zerker. I just don’t see how you CAN’T think this is good, and single handedly make Earth attunement worth focusing on.

Water: This grandmaster trait is not for solo play. It is for those looking to be a group healer. Not all traits need to focus on turning the Ele into a Pow/Pres/Crit damage class. Just admit it is a great trait that you will probably not use because you don’t want to be a group healer.

Arcane: For those looking to run a condition/bunker build (as stated above) it sure as hell will be picked. Seeing as how you can have two attunemnts active at a time, you can benefit from two of the effects in one proc if your timing is right. Getting Protection AND Retaliation at once is pretty great. Keep in mind too, that their duration is further increased from what is read, since going 30 points into Arcane grants 30% Boon Duration increase.

We won’t know until we can try these traits out ourselves, but I think you are having a bad case of, “Everyone but MY class is good” mentality with this update.

Though you are assuming that they have no -condition duration, it does last for 5 seconds only. It is rather poor for a grandmaster trait. I will repeat – for a grandmaster trait, it isnt that great. That ignores the rather weak tree it is in as well.

Yeah of course the Water trait is for group play. Trying to promote something they said the game wouldnt have – Healer. Its just trying to make the ele a healer class. I just think for a grandmaster trait – it should attect the ele as well.

I run a condition build. This will not be taken over Evasive Arcana. You are wrong. Unless they actually change Lingering Elements this nor Earth Grandmasters wont work with it. So with that in mind – do you think it will still be taken over Evasive Arcana?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Though you are assuming that they have no -condition duration, it does last for 5 seconds only. It is rather poor for a grandmaster trait. I will repeat – for a grandmaster trait, it isnt that great. That ignores the rather weak tree it is in as well.

Yeah of course the Water trait is for group play. Trying to promote something they said the game wouldnt have – Healer. Its just trying to make the ele a healer class. I just think for a grandmaster trait – it should attect the ele as well.

I run a condition build. This will not be taken over Evasive Arcana. You are wrong. Unless they actually change Lingering Elements this nor Earth Grandmasters wont work with it. So with that in mind – do you think it will still be taken over Evasive Arcana?
[/quote]

You are also forgetting the trait line it falls under offers +30% Condition duration as well. It works both ways. And 5 seconds is a LONG time (as if the length which it last for matters. It is gone the second an attack connects, which should happen FAR before the 5 seconds runs out. Application length isn’t why blind is considered a very strong condition).

There is nothing wrong with giving players the option to become a healer if they so choose anymore than it is wrong to give players the option to go bunker or DPS. Why you consider this a bad thing, I don’t know.

Yes, it will be taken. I am not denying the usefulness of Evasive Arcana, but I think you SERIOUSLY undermine how viable Elemental Contingency can be. Despite what these forums would make you believe, these traits aren’t SUPPOSED to replace old ones, only add more flavor for more viable builds.

Fire- With a scepter and signet of air build you can blind upto 24 times every minute.
Air- With dagger it is possible to permanently weaken a enemy with just air skills: lighting touch and shock aura. Not sure if the lightning rod damage will fit into the burst playstyle of Air specs.
Earth – Condition builds tend to stay in earth longer than other attunements so it helps. Can be used as a skill based defense to stop known burst combos.
Water – Anyone that gets healing power is doing it for their group. Increased heals on allies greatly improves that (even though few elemental go support).
Arcane – Better for a bunker build or dealing with range enemies but arcane evasion is better for solo.

All of the new GM traits are defensive. We did not get one to improve our offense. Still curious what boss we have to do to kill to get each one.

Burning Ashes: As others have already pointed out it very much depends on whether the cooldown is calculated for each target individually or only applies to one single target every 5 seconds. If it only applies to one single target in the 5 second window then the trait won’t be that good. You might just randomly waste this trait by buring and blinding a necro minion or ranger pet. If it only applies to a single target this would also deny any chances of an AoE blind using staff 3. As far as I know similar traits like the necromancer trait “dhuumfire” are single target only, so I think there is a good chance that Burning Ashes could be only single target as well.

Stone heart: This trait reads “Anti DD/SD thief” to me, much like diamond skin reads “Anti condition necro”, because you have to be able to anticipate the burst in order to use this trait and thieves usually telegraph this by going into stealth. I am personally no fan of traits that are literally just designed to counter the most common variant of one specific class. It is not surprised why they came up with that idea because everyone in the forums just lamented how thieves and thieves only are all that is needed to counter an elementalist and that it’s always those pesky thieves that prevent an elementalist from shining in PvP. So they tried to come up with a trait that offers a skillful way to deal with thieves. That is also why the dev that posted in the Aquatic benevolence trait wanted us to see this trait and was probably very convinced that we would like it, because it is anti-thief. In my personal opinion this sounds good on paper but I won’t take it, because I think it is too specific and too limited to counter a usually mixed group of enemies. I prefer traits and bonuses that work on any attunement.

I agree that I would have liked to see at least one trait for pure DPS (PvE) as well, something with a damage modifier or a trait that adds more damage components to the main damage spells. Something that would be gladly taken in a DPS build.

Stone Heart is also great against mesmers and any other zerker builds beyound thiefs, and prevents on-crit effects from proccing.

This means that sigil of fire and of air won’t trigger, vigor on crit won’t trigger, burning and bleeding on crit won’t trigger. Even blinding ashes elementalists won’t trigger their burning precision trait on you while in earth. :P

Unlike Diamond Skin, this trait is very universal. You can use it versus a burning engineer, versus a bleeding warrior, versus a shatter mesmer, versus an elementalist, and screw them pretty hard by denying their precious conditions/ bursts, and vigor and other stuff.

When we take into account any burst build that will get both sigil of air and sigil of fire, you can effectively deny the two sigils during their main burst sequence.

For those who were going arcana for the sake of protection, this is a pretty good alternative.

Really not excited about any of these traits, though some look situationally useful. However, “Lightning Rod” seems very poorly thought out. Unless they are giving eles alot more interrupts (or the “lightning bolt” does massive damage…and it shouldn’t). There are just too few interrupts for this trait to ever be worth it. Fresh air seems like it will provide much more dps and utility than this new alternative.

Edit to comment on the rest:

Stone heart: Not sure it will be as practically useful as everyone is thinking. Yes you can avoid some big hits, but you’ll need to leave earth sooner or later (remember people thought diamond skin would be game changing too, it hasn’t been).

Blinding ashes: This could be really good…if people can reliably produce burning every 5 seconds with the ICD. But will it be an ICD per target like glyph, or 1 ICD for everything (like the warrior cripple/immobilize adept trait). Might be devastating for fire eles to keep themselves alive through blinds while doing massive damage. But with the ICD and the proc nature of some of the burns…the blind from this trait may not trigger every 5 secs, but more like every 5-10 secs or more.

Elemental contingency: Doesn’t seem worth taking over EA. Small boons to oneself vs. the utility of 5 secs AoE burn, AoE blind, AoE heal/condi remove, and crip/bleed/blast finisher…I just don’t think this skill will be worth it. Also, assuming the ICD is per attunement, and are the boon durations shown including the 30% boost from having arcana maxed out?

Aquatic benevolence: The devs seem to be hyping this up, but unless there are major gameplay changes coming in the rest of the feature pack…I really don’t think any of these “+healing to allies” modifiers will be worth investing in. There will be certain scenarios, sure. But overall, if I am maxing out water magic I would much rather have: -20% water attunement skills recharge (much better for healing/support), one or both of the condition removal traits, or aura sharing.

This means that sigil of fire and of air won’t trigger, vigor on crit won’t trigger, burning and bleeding on crit won’t trigger.

sigils now be on-hit, not on-crit. but yeah, vigor on crit wont trigger, some on-crit traits too.

What classes rely on on crit effects to win a fight? That’s right – None.
Some people saying how this will be a huge advantage, it won’t be we will still be pumped full of conditions by pretty much every condition build so it will have no affect there.

We will be stuck in an attunement that is of little threat. The moment we leave it everyone will know to burst as hard as they can as they have have at least 10seconds of us being without it. A thief could melt us in them 10 seconds and still have a break in there.

I think the 30 point in air lightning bolt damage is going to be higher then 15 air damage.

The reason I say that is because Anet likes to reward people very well for interrupts. I think the lightning bolts might be halting strike type of damage if you have a mesmer you know that halting strike damage is no joke in a zerk build and can hit 4k on it’s own. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Halting_Strike.

This seems like a odd combo but 30 Air, the new buffed Sigil of Air, 15 air eletric discharge, and runes of air. I might just try that and rename my character Zeus

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

What classes rely on on crit effects to win a fight? That’s right – None.
Some people saying how this will be a huge advantage, it won’t be we will still be pumped full of conditions by pretty much every condition build so it will have no affect there.

We will be stuck in an attunement that is of little threat. The moment we leave it everyone will know to burst as hard as they can as they have have at least 10seconds of us being without it. A thief could melt us in them 10 seconds and still have a break in there.

Power builds rely on crit effects your ele relys on crits for vigor probably. Mesmers rely on crits for vigor, guardians rely on crits for vigor try playing anyone of them without vigor it is a really big difference.

Condi necros and engi rely on crit for burns. Do you have a Necro or Engi? I have both and the difference between not running your burn on crit trait and your burn on crit trait is huge!! More so for the engi then the necro but you notice the dps difference immediately.

I like you Ash but it just sounds like you don’t realize the extra depth to the combat that is there. Nobody sits in earth but everyone uses earth and ring of earth does alot of damage magnetic grasp is very strong immoblize on a short cooldown. I just can’t wrap my head around why you think stone heart is bad because earth doesn’t have fire attunement damage.

oZii.2864:

I might just try that and rename my character Zeus

Lol good idea.

But I agree, it seems like Anet’s promoting “active play” where you use your skills selectively instead of just spamming them (except Pistolwhip because Spam2Win). The irony is that most classes and builds itself work on a Rock-Paper-Scissors system which hopefully they can change.

Being immune to crits whilst in earth…yes please!

Incoming my 0/0/30/20/20 build or my 0/0/30/10/30

This negates SO much damage, no more on crit sigils activating, or on crit effects.

oZii.2864:

Power builds rely on crit effects your ele relys on crits for vigor probably. Mesmers rely on crits for vigor, guardians rely on crits for vigor try playing anyone of them without vigor it is a really big difference.

Condi necros and engi rely on crit for burns. Do you have a Necro or Engi? I have both and the difference between not running your burn on crit trait and your burn on crit trait is huge!! More so for the engi then the necro but you notice the dps difference immediately.

I like you Ash but it just sounds like you don’t realize the extra depth to the combat that is there. Nobody sits in earth but everyone uses earth and ring of earth does alot of damage magnetic grasp is very strong immoblize on a short cooldown. I just can’t wrap my head around why you think stone heart is bad because earth doesn’t have fire attunement damage.

Power builds rely on the damage, not on the crit effects. Sure they are nice, but they are not relying on them. Condi Necro and condi Engi don’t even need the burning. They will still do fine without the burning. So i dont see that as being a huge issue.

Mesmers don’t need the Vigor, they have plenty of stealth and ways to stay out of the way of damage. Sure it will will be a little benefit but it wont be anything that decides the outcome.

No one sits in Earth because it is a terrible attunement. It might be okay to avoid a burst. But that is just delaying the next burst. Once you go Earth then you are no threat. They will just keep attacking and wait for you to leave before going full burst.

Now, if the trait no matter how very unlikely was affected by Lingering Elements, that could really make it something very interesting.

I held back as much as I can before giggling.

Fire: Blinding Ashes: Blind foes for 5 seconds when you burn them – cooldown 5s

Well use Scepter, the air and earth blind does the same thing via intervals.
And Focus mitigates lots of the damages via earth and Air off hand.
Also we have utilities to do that ( hint: reducing utilities cool down or increase duration of effectiveness.)

Earth: Stone heart – You cannot be critically hit while attuned to earth
Well if you can swap when you anticipate his cloak and Dagger or BS, having around 1700-1800 tough and 10 points in Earth already covers you fairly well.

Also if your an ele you know our trade Dodge roll and turn body!

• Side note thieves will get a 50% reduction when cloak new grandmaster trait so that means you have fun bursting them when cloaked. yes they can run a 0 30 30 10 0.

The main issue is the designers had inadvertently allowed powered creep to take place. How, by rounding out other professions weakness, via traits, skill changes or runes. Eg: Warrior’s get a 25% movement boost trait for equipping melee weapons or traveler/ Speed runes, Perplexity runes and so forth. I know ele’s can use it to but simply less effective and more effort.

Developers are trying to balance other profession out but if you balance them won’t they just become a rich man’s elementalist and an elementalist stays poor.

So he are the fun facts still low hp, low armor, lack of escapes.
Guardian has armor + hp now + burst
Thief + Escapes cloaks

Main issues are still not being addressed the entire trait line needs to be readjust or the cool downs need to be adjusted in skills and utilities.
I suggest let us have some new mechanics that won’t replace existing ones that limit our survivability or damage or mobility.

Rangers are given a cloak in longbow that’s way off topic but you gave them an active cloak.
Engi, ranger, mesmer, and thief can cloak to disengage. We want one too!

Easiest fixes. revert cooldowns in RTL and decrease arcane and cantrip cool downs and give us those stun breakers back.

I went off topic but new traits is like giving you kitten mail in rebate when it cost $5 to ship it.

i will be very sad if i can’t aoe blind with flame burst…

If thieves run the new gm instead of the heal in stealth then great. The heal whilst in stealth is far more potent.

phaeris.7604:

If thieves run the new gm instead of the heal in stealth then great. The heal whilst in stealth is far more potent.

I agree if you are fighting a decent thief you probably didn’t hit them anyway while they are in stealth. The 30 critical strikes trait isn’t going to make up the HP/s loss of shadow rejuvenation 9k backstab would pull in 450 hp and 9k is rare not the norm. The trait will make blowing up a thief you know is going for a stealth stomp alot harder to kill but I don’t think many thieves will trade it for the healing.

I am little embarrassed by all the balance-patch whining coming from fellow eles in this thread and others. Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth. Eles are already totally viable in PvP, and now we’re getting pretty incredible buffs that open up even more powerful builds that may even be OP and still all you can do is complain. Some of you wieners won’t be happy until eles get some kind of god mode that makes them invincible. LTP.

With love,

Kyon.9735:

oZii.2864:

I might just try that and rename my character Zeus

Lol good idea.

But I agree, it seems like Anet’s promoting “active play” where you use your skills selectively instead of just spamming them (except Pistolwhip because Spam2Win). The irony is that most classes and builds itself work on a Rock-Paper-Scissors system which hopefully they can change.

Yea Im going to trademark “God of Thunder Build” x/30/x/x/x done!

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

oZii.2864:

Power builds rely on crit effects your ele relys on crits for vigor probably. Mesmers rely on crits for vigor, guardians rely on crits for vigor try playing anyone of them without vigor it is a really big difference.

Condi necros and engi rely on crit for burns. Do you have a Necro or Engi? I have both and the difference between not running your burn on crit trait and your burn on crit trait is huge!! More so for the engi then the necro but you notice the dps difference immediately.

I like you Ash but it just sounds like you don’t realize the extra depth to the combat that is there. Nobody sits in earth but everyone uses earth and ring of earth does alot of damage magnetic grasp is very strong immoblize on a short cooldown. I just can’t wrap my head around why you think stone heart is bad because earth doesn’t have fire attunement damage.

Power builds rely on the damage, not on the crit effects. Sure they are nice, but they are not relying on them. Condi Necro and condi Engi don’t even need the burning. They will still do fine without the burning. So i dont see that as being a huge issue.

Mesmers don’t need the Vigor, they have plenty of stealth and ways to stay out of the way of damage. Sure it will will be a little benefit but it wont be anything that decides the outcome.

No one sits in Earth because it is a terrible attunement. It might be okay to avoid a burst. But that is just delaying the next burst. Once you go Earth then you are no threat. They will just keep attacking and wait for you to leave before going full burst.

Now, if the trait no matter how very unlikely was affected by Lingering Elements, that could really make it something very interesting.

Actually, Mesmers need Vigor on crit procs. You pointed out that they have stealth for defensive purposes but most Mesmer builds rely on clones and one of their best traits is Deceptive Evasion which leaves a clone when they dodge. Shatter relies heavily on clones as well as PU builds.

As for Necro, I have no comment because I don’t play one. Burning from Incendiary Powder is definitely one of the best and most reliable condi an Engi can get from a trait.

Like I said before, the Earth Magic trait line and skills were supposed to be defensive right from the start. If you being on a superior defensive attunement also allows you to be an offensive threat at the same time, it’s imbalance. You’re an Elementalist, not a Warrior. You can’t have the best of both worlds /sarcasm.

When you’re in Earth and you know your enemy is waiting for you to swap out of it, this is when you should think of your next possible steps. What attunements are available for me? What utilities can I use after I swap out of earth? Maybe I can use Earthquake then swap to Fire and use Burning Speed + LF to do my own burst?

oZii.2864:

Why are people saying earth is that bad? I mean every D/D ele goes into earth and every s/d ele likes to start in earth and swap to air for 15 air procs.

Earth also has very good damage traits. It just sounds like alot of people are trying to imagine moving a whole 30 points from their previous build to pick up one of these and just don’t see it working. When these are traits to build around.

D/D’s build around 20+water and 30 arcana
S/D’s and s/f build around 30 air

Why can’t there be a build based around 30 earth?

I don’t understand the logic here. Do 30 Air eles stay in Air? Do 30 water eles stay in water? NO so why are we saying 30 earth is trash because nobody stays in earth? Cleansing water is trash because no ele stays in water and water certainly doesn’t have good damage at all. I don’t even understand how this is a thing because nobody stays in a attunement for long except maybe a staff Ele.

If you D/D the attunement you stay in the longest is Air if a burst is coming in you swap to earth! I would rather reduce a burst by 150% + whatever crit damage they have then have protection up. That is what stone heart will do reduce any incoming damage by a guaranteed 150%+ if that hit was going to crit.

I agree completely that there’s a difference between strengthening one attunement with a goal or an overarching strategy in mind and simply camping it, which I don’t think is viable or even really intended. Just as you’ve said, a typical burst Ele for example will mostly rely on Air, but Earth plays a strong part in setting up burst (and anticipating it if you’re playing Focus), Fire has its Phoenix, area denial and might potential and even Water is another means of control and sustain.

The really beautiful thing and what I truly admire about Ele’s design is that your attunements and the abilities associated with them are so useful if you think about the ways to use them that you’re never “defeated” at the trait window, so to speak. If you don’t have a purpose in mind for the traits you’re choosing when investing in Earth, then you’ll likely be dissatisfied, but it has nothing to do with the merit of Earth Magic or Earth Attunement itself: if I want some protection for channelling Ether Renewal, then Earth VIII and Arcane Shield works very well for me. Even if I then leave Earth Attunement, I can consider the points well spent because they kept me safe from possibly lethal circumstances. So in the broader picture the points into Earth bolstered my performance in all attunements.

Earth Magic rewards and encourages conservation of endurance and close-quarters aggression on the Elementalist’s part. Water favors sustain, healing and building strength over time. Arcana is ambiguous and can be drawn for the most part in any way a player wishes. On the whole, if you go deep into Earth then you are likely going to favor a burstier, more aggressive strategy, since you are traited more into taking and reacting to hits and less into sustain. I think some of the complaints from players about Earth is that they perhaps expect Earth to pull Water’s horse in the sustain and cleansing department and become disappointed when it doesn’t. But if Earth doesn’t work for you then there’s no shame in going for Water instead. The trait points are always yours to spend.

The magic lines themselves aren’t really about singling out a single attunement, per se, but rather about tailoring the Elementalist in a direction that favors the goal, rotations and temperament of the player. This often means benefits to the magic line’s attunement, but it’s not an imperative to just sit in said attunement all day. That’s coming at the Elementalist from a fundamental misconception I feel.

^^^

Good post

shimmerless.4560:

oZii.2864:

Why are people saying earth is that bad? I mean every D/D ele goes into earth and every s/d ele likes to start in earth and swap to air for 15 air procs.

Earth also has very good damage traits. It just sounds like alot of people are trying to imagine moving a whole 30 points from their previous build to pick up one of these and just don’t see it working. When these are traits to build around.

D/D’s build around 20+water and 30 arcana
S/D’s and s/f build around 30 air

Why can’t there be a build based around 30 earth?

I don’t understand the logic here. Do 30 Air eles stay in Air? Do 30 water eles stay in water? NO so why are we saying 30 earth is trash because nobody stays in earth? Cleansing water is trash because no ele stays in water and water certainly doesn’t have good damage at all. I don’t even understand how this is a thing because nobody stays in a attunement for long except maybe a staff Ele.

If you D/D the attunement you stay in the longest is Air if a burst is coming in you swap to earth! I would rather reduce a burst by 150% + whatever crit damage they have then have protection up. That is what stone heart will do reduce any incoming damage by a guaranteed 150%+ if that hit was going to crit.

I agree completely that there’s a difference between strengthening one attunement with a goal or an overarching strategy in mind and simply camping it, which I don’t think is viable or even really intended. Just as you’ve said, a typical burst Ele for example will mostly rely on Air, but Earth plays a strong part in setting up burst (and anticipating it if you’re playing Focus), Fire has its Phoenix, area denial and might potential and even Water is another means of control and sustain.

The really beautiful thing and what I truly admire about Ele’s design is that your attunements and the abilities associated with them are so useful if you think about the ways to use them that you’re never “defeated” at the trait window, so to speak. If you don’t have a purpose in mind for the traits you’re choosing when investing in Earth, then you’ll likely be dissatisfied, but it has nothing to do with the merit of Earth Magic or Earth Attunement itself: if I want some protection for channelling Ether Renewal, then Earth VIII and Arcane Shield works very well for me. Even if I then leave Earth Attunement, I can consider the points well spent because they kept me safe from possibly lethal circumstances. So in the broader picture the points into Earth bolstered my performance in all attunements.

Earth Magic rewards and encourages conservation of endurance and close-quarters aggression on the Elementalist’s part. Water favors sustain, healing and building strength over time. Arcana is ambiguous and can be drawn for the most part in any way a player wishes. On the whole, if you go deep into Earth then you are likely going to favor a burstier, more aggressive strategy, since you are traited more into taking and reacting to hits and less into sustain. I think some of the complaints from players about Earth is that they perhaps expect Earth to pull Water’s horse in the sustain and cleansing department and become disappointed when it doesn’t. But if Earth doesn’t work for you then there’s no shame in going for Water instead. The trait points are always yours to spend.

The magic lines themselves aren’t really about singling out a single attunement, per se, but rather about tailoring the Elementalist in a direction that favors the goal, rotations and temperament of the player. This often means benefits to the magic line’s attunement, but it’s not an imperative to just sit in said attunement all day. That’s coming at the Elementalist from a fundamental misconception I feel.

This post made by shimmerless is worth reading from start to finish. It evaluate crucial points towards the usefulness of our traits. His statements are significant. For example:

" If you don’t have a purpose in mind for the traits you’re choosing when investing in Earth, then you’ll likely be dissatisfied, but it has nothing to do with the merit of Earth Magic or Earth Attunement itself"

and

" The magic lines themselves aren’t really about singling out a single attunement, per se, but rather about tailoring the Elementalist in a direction that favors the goal, rotations and temperament of the player".

I got a few ideal with the new traits. The one i been thinking about lately is the new 30 Ar i am thinking 10E 30 water and 30 ar staff but use the new one over evasion. A high boon def ele. It off the ideal that each atument has its own cd and its not just one cd.

LightningBlaze.4913:

This post made by shimmerless is worth reading from start to finish. It evaluate crucial points towards the usefulness of our traits. His statements are significant. For example:

" If you don’t have a purpose in mind for the traits you’re choosing when investing in Earth, then you’ll likely be dissatisfied, but it has nothing to do with the merit of Earth Magic or Earth Attunement itself"

and

" The magic lines themselves aren’t really about singling out a single attunement, per se, but rather about tailoring the Elementalist in a direction that favors the goal, rotations and temperament of the player".

I agree it perfectly describes how the elementalist is designed to be played.

Since water/arcana are so important to resist the high burst damage, would the reduction in crit damage across the board be a buff for lower health classes?

Netko.9271:

So new traits are :
Fire: Blinding Ashes: Blind foes for 5 seconds when you burn them – cooldown 5s
Air: Lightning Rod – interrupting an enemy causes them to be stuck by a damaging lightning bolt that leaves them weakened (5s)
Earth: Stone heart – You cannot be critically hit while attuned to earth
Water: Aquatic Benevolence- your healing to other allies (not self) is increased by 25%
Arcane – Elemental Contingency- Gain a boon when you are stuck, based on your current attunement, coodown; 10 seconds. Fire: 3.5s of retaliation; air: 5 seconds of fury; Earth: 2.5s of protection; Water: 3 seconds of vigor

Fire= I could see myself using. provided I can figure out a decent build with 30 fire.
Air= seems pretty lacking for a grandmaster if you ask me.
Earth= I could see this having some use for survival but considering how weak dps is in earth its not something i’d go for.
Water= nice idea but honestly between it wanting me to play healing bot for others and it only affecting other players and not myself its not all that impressive.
Arcane= we have to do WHAT! …any brave squishy lowest defence/ HP class elementalists wanna step up to get hit on purpose to get a quick single boon?
I’ll pass on this. I’m a little to focused on dodging hits not getting hit.

The only ones that I see as potentially useful Blinding Ashes and Stone Heart, assuming that they fit in new decent builds. Their placement promotes build diversity but are they enough to make fire and earth builds viable?

The rest are bad, lightning rod requires interrupting which is not that common but in some cases the reward could be worth it if it does insane damage. It’s too bad that it is unusable against many condition abilities and asura players.
Aquatic Benevolence is useless because healing is not a viable role, if healing ever became viable it could be decent.
Elemental Contigency requires you to be hit which is something that you don’t want as an ele. The funny thing is that the retaliation boon for fire attunement requires you to be hit again if you want to make it do damage!

McFribble.2349:

Water: This grandmaster trait is not for solo play. It is for those looking to be a group healer. Not all traits need to focus on turning the Ele into a Pow/Pres/Crit damage class. Just admit it is a great trait that you will probably not use because you don’t want to be a group healer.

Not gonna use it because there’s no NEED for a group healer. The problem with this trait isn’t the trait. It’s the fact that healers are useless.

ThiBash.5634:

McFribble.2349:

Water: This grandmaster trait is not for solo play. It is for those looking to be a group healer. Not all traits need to focus on turning the Ele into a Pow/Pres/Crit damage class. Just admit it is a great trait that you will probably not use because you don’t want to be a group healer.

Not gonna use it because there’s no NEED for a group healer. The problem with this trait isn’t the trait. It’s the fact that healers are useless.

I agree. Wasn’t Anet steering clear of the holy trinity? This trait seems to directly contradict one of their main goals with GW2.

I also don’t think it’s a really huge buff, either. All in all, I found this skill to be very unnecessary especially with all of the other problems the elementalist has (which this trait does not solve).

Maybe if this skill increased our self-healing by 15% as well, then it would be interesting. Even then I doubt it would be a big game-changer for the ele.