Guild Wars 2

mouse.1689:

TGSlasher.1458

I hope that the water effect is not reduced from evasive arcana, I run tankish bunker spec, with dagger dagger, and the dodge heal is all I can do to survive.

The main problem is Evasive Arcana’s synergy with staff’s Healing Rain combo field. You can just keep spamming dodge rolls through it and keep regeneration up constantly. That’s what’s pushing bunker Ele’s over the top, and some aspect of that is the most likely candidate for adjustment, I think.

I play D/D too, so I’d be bummed to see Evasive Arcana get nerfed, but it’s not entirely unlikely it will happen.

My guess is they will fix the bug where you get a blast finisher on each dodge even if you don’t get a spell effect. This will stop the multiple dodges in Healing Rain which are the problem.

The standard switch to Water, cast Trident/Geyser/Cone of Cold and dodge once will probably be untouched.

Conclusion about all these posts:

Stop asking for nerfs, ask for faster bugfixes instead :P

CyanideRayne.2413:

People are too lazy and don’t feel like adjusting their play or feel like it’s their own fault. Fail at a dungeon? too hard cause they have to dodge…. can’t kill someone in pvp? X class is too op and mines needs a buff Gear not up to par? Takes too long to farm It’s always something basicly they want this game diluted down to tank and spank lol heal through everything press 1-2-3-4 optimal build/rotation or it’s garbage and not done correctly.

Those same people are also usually the first ones to leave a game after they’ve “nerfed qq’d” everything to death. Then the rest of us who truly enjoyed the game for what it WAS are left with a shell of the original that we loved so much

If “Bunker Builds” are invalid then so is “Glass Cannon” builds. They are polar opposites and if one goes, so should the other. To say otherwise is pure bias.

Theifs complaining about Ele’s? Oh god I’ve seen it all now.
Just fix Evasive Arcana so the blast finisher is on a 10 second C/D as it should be and maybe reduce the healing a tad on the water evasive.

DanH.5879:

Hi all. We were 2 vs 1 elementalist bunker, and we coudn’t kill it. even 3 vs 1 was really hard. please understand it shoudn’t be supposed to be like this !
courtesy of the thieves guild and all the nerfs we took so far.

what were you and your teammate. if you were a theif and your teammate was another physical hitting person. as long as the ele survived the intial burst from your theif it would be relatively easy for him to survive against you 2, becuase you can’t hit the ele from a distance

How much coordination did you have with your partner?

Bunkerbuilds are meant to survive a certain time against 2 players that simply spam their skills. There also are worse bunker classes than elementalists, that even deal damage.

Curring.9752:

Just fix Evasive Arcana so the blast finisher is on a 10 second C/D as it should be and maybe reduce the healing a tad on the water evasive.

I wouldn’t even want that. If you reduce the healing from cleansing wave on evasive, you’re screwing D/D and S/D ele’s because that’s their only real healing capability aside from the regular, 45 second cleansing wave on the skill bar.

And putting the blast finisher on the 10s cooldown (so that it matches the 10s cooldown of the evasive wave) would hurt support/healing Ele’s a lot in things such as WvW. Don’t add the 10s cooldown on blasts, just make it so that you can ONLY evasive blast any given field ONCE.

For example, right now you can get 2, sometimes even 3 (with rune of superior energy) blasts out of healing rain. Just make it so that ONLY the first blast sets off the AOE healing. That way if I wanna cast rain, roll into it (AOE heal), then follow with geyser and roll into that (AOE heal) to keep my WvW team up (which I do all the time), I can still do it, and pull it off inside of 10seconds. I mean, if you want to blow your entire endurance bar and put your only 2 major healing skills on cooldown (45s and 20s, respectively), you should be able to. Just make it so you can’t blast rain multiple times and it would be much improved.

Warmage Timeraider.5861:

Conclusion about all these posts:

Stop asking for nerfs, ask for faster bugfixes instead :P

i don’t think bunker builds should be nerfed.

i think the other options should be buffed/tweaked to make them more enticing options so people have a decision: glass cannone DPS/burst, or, survivable, tanky bunker? or, a sustainable DPS build.

tl;dr: If this gets nerfed, it destroys the one viable support options for elementalists in PvE.

I play a staff support ele, almost strictly PvE (only do WvW for the monthly 50 kills). These so called “bunker” builds are support builds in dungeons, and it is what I have been playing since I created my ele (which is also my main) during the headstart.

If they nerf this build, I will have to seriously consider whether I should even bother doing dungeons any more. At the moment, at least, I am not onehitted by every random projectile or AoE, using that survivability to lay down AoE healing fields for the entire group, performing AoE healing finishers etc.

This playstyle is, in dungeons, extremely fun. Making it brittle or nerfing the healing to the ground basically destroys this option, and the very playstyle I have created this character for.

Before ArenaNet considers further class nerfs because of specific PvP woes (assuming they are justified, which I am obviously not qualified to judge), they need to completely separate skill strengths between PvE and PvP. I don’t want GW2 to become yet another game where nerfs and buffs compete between addressing PvP and PvE, keeping the game forever in a status quo of many unneccessary imbalances just because changing a skill affects both separate aspects of the game.

Definition of irony: a thief asking for nerfs to anothher class.

Immobilize > ele bunker.

It stops anything being casted upon being applied (interrupt).
They also make it hard to actually cast while rooted which requires you to jam on buttons and pray they will actually go off which is really annoying.
Ele cannot spin or move while stuck; get behind ele and go to town with no fear of being attacked.
Many immobilizes cannot be cleansed and will go full duration. Some are up to 10 seconds!
Immobilize is also uneffected by the stability buff; the ultimate ‘lose control of your character’ CC.
And most importantly: ele cannot dodge while immobilized. No dodge = no evasive arcana trixs.

One immobilize at the right time is all that is needed to stop an ele bunker in it’s tracks. Literally.

Fixing evasive blast finisher to be 10 sec cd won’t hurt you too much, you can still witch attunement and get the second blast finisher

2 thieves complaining they can’t kill someone… puts a smile on my face.

fixit.7189:

Immobilize > ele bunker.

It stops anything being casted upon being applied (interrupt).
They also make it hard to actually cast while rooted which requires you to jam on buttons and pray they will actually go off which is really annoying.
Ele cannot spin or move while stuck; get behind ele and go to town with no fear of being attacked.
Many immobilizes cannot be cleansed and will go full duration. Some are up to 10 seconds!
Immobilize is also uneffected by the stability buff; the ultimate ‘lose control of your character’ CC.
And most importantly: ele cannot dodge while immobilized. No dodge = no evasive arcana trixs.

One immobilize at the right time is all that is needed to stop an ele bunker in it’s tracks. Literally.

Windborne Speed (Air 4) cures immobilized, chilled, and crippled. I use it all the time. Since I rarely use Air 4 in battle, its almost always off cool-down.

fixit.7189:

One immobilize at the right time is all that is needed to stop an ele bunker in it’s tracks. Literally.

This is incredibly true. If I’ve already switched from Water and Air, there’s little I can do but burn a cantrip.

Bsquared.3421:

Curring.9752:

Just fix Evasive Arcana so the blast finisher is on a 10 second C/D as it should be and maybe reduce the healing a tad on the water evasive.

I wouldn’t even want that. If you reduce the healing from cleansing wave on evasive, you’re screwing D/D and S/D ele’s because that’s their only real healing capability aside from the regular, 45 second cleansing wave on the skill bar.

And putting the blast finisher on the 10s cooldown (so that it matches the 10s cooldown of the evasive wave) would hurt support/healing Ele’s a lot in things such as WvW. Don’t add the 10s cooldown on blasts, just make it so that you can ONLY evasive blast any given field ONCE.

For example, right now you can get 2, sometimes even 3 (with rune of superior energy) blasts out of healing rain. Just make it so that ONLY the first blast sets off the AOE healing. That way if I wanna cast rain, roll into it (AOE heal), then follow with geyser and roll into that (AOE heal) to keep my WvW team up (which I do all the time), I can still do it, and pull it off inside of 10seconds. I mean, if you want to blow your entire endurance bar and put your only 2 major healing skills on cooldown (45s and 20s, respectively), you should be able to. Just make it so you can’t blast rain multiple times and it would be much improved.

I did say maybe. :P
I don’t see how that is really much different, all it would mean is that you have to put another field down which will still heal you either way, so that to me isn’t much of a nerf just making it a little bit harder because you have to push an extra button. It may work, I’m not saying it won’t but I just can’t see it to be honest, especially in WvW where theres plenty of fields going around anyway the balance would be aimed more towards sPvP and would affect staff bunker builds – I play one myself, although I don’t use EA anymore and I think the 10 C/D would be reasonable.

Dear devs
Rock deserves to be nerfed, paper is ok though

Yours,
Scirssors

OneBloke.7264:

Dear devs
Rock deserves to be nerfed, paper is ok though

Yours,
Scirssors

Lizard is bugged. Spoc is OP! :-)

I actually agree with the op. I just had an ele run in the middle of 4 of our team members and hold us off for a LONG time. It was insane. And it wasn’t like the had low dps either.

If he had the help of at least 1 other he could have taken us down.

I seriously have a problem when the supposedly weakest class (in terms of defense) tanks better than the tankiest class (guardian).

OMG dont forget about those trebuchets, they do more dmg then thieves and have more health to. NERF!
OW god, not to mention those boxes standing on the ground at Kyhlo, its like to hits to destroy them, they seriously need balancing

hehe, nah yust kidding. Yust wait till 15 nov. hopefully they will fix alot of bugs.
I heard someone say a dev said that all the patch notes published during the november 15-18th would be massive with ALOT of stuff. Ofcourse i havent got any proof that its true, but it would explain arenanet being a bit quiet about what they are doing :P
I hope next patchnotes will have some nice fixes, so that we can start balancing professions from a point where almost noone has to struggle with bugs and glitches anymore

PS Elementalist bunkers are NO tanks. Elementalists cant rely on armor or defensive stuff. all they rely on are an bugged evasive arcana, healing amulet and mostly water fields.
Saying they are defensive, no your wrong. Saying they heal much much more then intended, yes

OP sounds like a troll to me, spend some time playing an ele and then come talk to us about how OP bunker builds are. If that person could 2v1 you then he/she has been playing longer and has more experience with the class.

Your issue was not that it was a bunker build, your issue is that it was a condition removal build. Since they spent 30 trait points in water and probably a utility slot (cleansing flame) specializing in condition removal to counter condition builds like yours, it hardly seems unfair. Anyone with a power build could have burst that ele down easy. Pro-tip: get some stuns or other CC.

If you get owned by an elementalist then you’re just bad ^^

Imagine how hard it will hit D/F specs if they remove the healing bit from Evasive Arcana, as they only have Cone of Cold for healing (besides the healing utility of course). But then again, noone cares for D/F it seems.

So I came across two thieves last night and before engaging I thought of this thread; I should automatically win, right?! I lasted maybe 30 seconds. They knew how to fight an ele; cycle stealths/stuns/immobilizes ftw. They made sure I could not dodge and blew me up.

I find it hard to believe the OP, personally. Must have been sub 80 and or junk gear using bad specs perhaps. Only explanation I can give.

how does an elementalist struggle to kill a thief in a 30 second fight? By that time he wasted all his burst damage and stealths all while you were regenerating hp and dealing damage.

Because bunkers have very low dps.

DanH.5879:

1. we were 2x condition thieves, and NO, we dont have stuns.
2.we cond builds should have NO chance to take a bunker down ???
also our burst was nerfed to the ground, so, ALSO bunkers should be nerfed to compensate !

You mean a lack of burst damage like this – http://goo.gl/NqRR6 – which is an image from last night?

If that is post-nerf burst I would have hated to be on the receiving end of the pre-nerf Thief.

No matter how you look at it, or which class you play, NO ONE should be able to do that kind of damage in a matter of 2 seconds. It flat out ruins games.

lol nerfed to the ground? mug deals 1/2 bs damage, CnD deals 5/8 bs damage. Before this “nerf” it would be 5/8+.5+1.5=2.625xbs damage + any heartseekers. Now its (5/8+.5+1)1.15=2.44xbs damage+ two heartseeker’s extra damage.
At less than 50% heartseeker does .6x bs damage, at less than 25% its .8x bs damage. so at >50% 2.44+1.2(.15)=2.624x bs damage from our 4 skill combo, at >25% its 2.44+1.6(.15)=2.684x bs damage. Note that these only take the extra damage from heartseeker, not heartseeker itself, in order to find the signet’s contribution.

Results of Assassin’s signet “nerf”:
CnD+Mug+BS burst w/o heartseekers: 93% original burst damage
CnD+Mug+BS burst+ extra damage on two >50% heartseekers: 100% of original damage
CnD+Mug+BS burst +two >extra damage on 25% heartseekers:102% of original damage

This means overall, the 4 skill combo will be hitting the same amount or slightly more than before the “nerf”.

Edit: Oh and before you qq and say that 7% is a lot in terms of bursting, elementalists were nerfed to 54% of ALL their damage because they could use a 4 second burst.

SecondtoNone.7549:

Windborne Speed (Air 4) cures immobilized, chilled, and crippled. I use it all the time. Since I rarely use Air 4 in battle, its almost always off cool-down.

Windborne speed is staff, bunker eles are typically D/D.

As a staff ele in last weeks WvW I encountered Fort Aspenwoods group of bunker eles. There’s not much doubt there will be some sort of nerf because they do border on unkillable despite using immobilize via shockwave on them.

there’s just one answer the opening poster needed: l2p

morrolan.9608:

SecondtoNone.7549:

Windborne Speed (Air 4) cures immobilized, chilled, and crippled. I use it all the time. Since I rarely use Air 4 in battle, its almost always off cool-down.

Windborne speed is staff, bunker eles are typically D/D.

As a staff ele in last weeks WvW I encountered Fort Aspenwoods group of bunker eles. There’s not much doubt there will be some sort of nerf because they do border on unkillable despite using immobilize via shockwave on them.

Bunker eles are “unkillable” only for clueless players , every bunker rely on the same rotation and same traits, so where is the problem?

It’s time to get out of the comfort zone, ele players in general have acquired a better understanding of the game, being a balanced profession we can’t rely on spamming 1-2 skills to beat people, therefore we’ve learned the in and out of every single skill in our arsenal and how and when to use them.

1)Weakness ( very easy to apply, can be applied almost permanently regardless of enemy condition removal) to reduce endurance regeneration

2)Button smashing without knowing the CD of skills used by bunker eles, won’t work..ever.

3) Caltrops thieves and shatter mesmers can wreck bunker eles when they know what they’re doing

4) even using sigil of superior energy, they can dodge max 3 times at any given time, as d/d ele?…..don’t expect to counter every build out there, pro trapper rangers can give you loads of trouble for example, will you go and complain on forum or simply switch set?

morrolan.9608:

SecondtoNone.7549:

Windborne Speed (Air 4) cures immobilized, chilled, and crippled. I use it all the time. Since I rarely use Air 4 in battle, its almost always off cool-down.

Windborne speed is staff, bunker eles are typically D/D.

As a staff ele in last weeks WvW I encountered Fort Aspenwoods group of bunker eles. There’s not much doubt there will be some sort of nerf because they do border on unkillable despite using immobilize via shockwave on them.

Not true, bunkers are typically staff, due to 2x water field + 2 to 4 x dodge (energy sigil and extreme case adventure runes)

Also bunker staff healing ability doesn’t go down without the bug, its just easier with the bug (you can switch attunements and get the 2nd effect and blast finisher). My friend doesn’t double dodge water because he loses to much damage, or the blind from the other attunements.

I run a dagger dagger bunker build, but I don’t last nearly half as long as my friends staff build unless fighting other bunkers.

TGSlasher.1458:

Not true, bunkers are typically staff, due to 2x water field + 2 to 4 x dodge (energy sigil and extreme case adventure runes)

Also bunker staff healing ability doesn’t go down without the bug, its just easier with the bug (you can switch attunements and get the 2nd effect and blast finisher). My friend doesn’t double dodge water because he loses to much damage, or the blind from the other attunements.

Whats his build?