Guild Wars 2

HGH Now grants only 15s of might instead of 20

Adaptive Armor grants 60 toughness per stack, instead of 100 (Now the exact same as Corruptor’s Fervor at max stacks)

This really came out of nowhere, is there any reason as to why?

Keeps things sensational

cause anet likes to take good things and make them meh things cause people kitten and complain when they dont ez 1 shot stuff..

come on…we got 2 HUGE NERF to our ONLY 2 good grandmaster we have got….but on the other side we got 3 and i repeat 3 answers from Irenio on the ENGI CLASS FORUM!!!

I would like to hear a statement for this. Especially Adaptive Armor. The Scrapper is meant as an tank elite spec, we already got a good tank grandmaster trait and now it is nerfed way too much. It gives less toughness than the necromancer trait now, they can have all their stacks INSTANT without taking any damage. We have to build them up slowly and need to get hit for it.

It is once more proven that we,as the engineers,are the redheaded stepchild of the family.
Never allowed to have nice things,we have a complete play style that got taken away as a whole (turrets,if you are slow) and now we are getting punished because people find it way too easy to cry “Engineer OP!” rather than learning to play.

What an effin’ paradox,we are supposed to grab a hammer and jump into the fray yet they slash the amount of might and tougness we get.

Bit disappointed about the aa nerf, from 100 to 60 immediatly is pretty huge in my opinion.

Slaymeding.9584:

It is once more proven that we,as the engineers,are the redheaded stepchild of the family.

I don’t think proven means what you think it means.

Each patch this week has had nerf to every profession but ours. Now I dislike the way they nerfed adaptive armor. I would have preferred that they nerfed the stacks by 40%, rather then have each stack individually nerfed. I much rather have it cap at 3 stacks for 300 toughness then take 5 stacks for the same.

From what I gather, in the PvP section of the forums there seemed to have been some complaints about it. I’m guessing it made engineers too tough to kill or something. Being too OP and hard to kill in PvP is also the reason why they removed those runes and that amulet in PvP in today’s patch.

Ricky Rouse.1583:

HGH Now grants only 15s of might instead of 20

Adaptive Armor grants 60 toughness per stack, instead of 100 (Now the exact same as Corruptor’s Fervor at max stacks)

This really came out of nowhere, is there any reason as to why?

Adaptive Armor was completely justified and expected (at least by me). We did not need 500 free toughness for literally doing nothing. It did not promote active play and still does quite a bit by providing 300 AND 20% condition damage reduction in the process. As for HGH, it is safe to say that we now have many different options for obtaining Might, making it insane to permanently maintain 25 at all times just for taking a single elixir along for the process of, once again, lack of active play through obtaining it.

Djealo.7369:

Bit disappointed about the aa nerf, from 100 to 60 immediatly is pretty huge in my opinion.

Come on it’s just 40% …

Be happy mr Engi cause now you know the reason why the Blast Gyro never crits!!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Blast-Gyro-Bugged/5686817

What do you want more than this???!!!

Quite honestly, these are good changes , I think they could have been done better though.

HGH: This trait is still ridiculous and outshines most grandmasters. Still, Mass Momentum is the problem here. That trait needs to just be re-thought.

AA: Again, still ridiculously better than its direct competition. Would have preferred to keep the same amount of toughness, but spread across a longer period. Like 50 over 10 seconds.

coglin.1867:

Slaymeding.9584:

It is once more proven that we,as the engineers,are the redheaded stepchild of the family.

I don’t think proven means what you think it means.

Each patch this week has had nerf to every profession but ours. Now I dislike the way they nerfed adaptive armor. I would have preferred that they nerfed the stacks by 40%, rather then have each stack individually nerfed. I much rather have it cap at 3 stacks for 300 toughness then take 5 stacks for the same.

Dont mind me im just being over-emotional about it.
I know its not that much.

I wouldn’t call HGH a nerf, that’s an understandable change.

Adaptive Armor is a nerf, and a poor one. I’m looking at doing raids, and there are two outcomes because of this nerf:

1) Engineers will still be able to tank with 250 less toughness. Does this make the content too easy if 250 toughness is that trivial?

2) Engineers will not be able to tank raids. It’s obvious why this is bad.

If the trait is too powerful in PvP then SPLIT THE SKILL. I don’t often get irritated by changes like this, I get that evolution is a part of the game. This one just grinds my gears.

I really dont understand why you guys are you worrying and talking so much about two useless GM traits like HGH and AA instead of beeing happy for the comeing back of our Orbital Strike’s super animation !!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Orbital-Strike-1/5686800

Adamantium.3682:

I wouldn’t call HGH a nerf, that’s an understandable change.

They are both nerfs, and generally of the same quality.

Yeah, it isn’t like we needed a reason to get anything other than kits, of course.
Let’s just nerf anything that makes other utilities useful, that will surely improve our build diversity.

About AA…usual nonsensical nerfs. Scrapper is supposed to be a tanky elite spec, it made sense to have a good tanking trait. Seeing our new mechanic is already quite limited, having decent traits at least would have been logical.
But why have logical things, let’s just make it like a base necromancer’s trait.

Ederyn.3107:

I really dont understand why you guys are you worrying and talking so much about two useless GM traits like HGH and AA instead of beeing happy for the comeing back of our Orbital Strike’s super animation !!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Orbital-Strike-1/5686800

The animation doesn’t have any impact on our incoming/outgoing DPS. This Nerf does both.

archmagus.7249:

Ederyn.3107:

I really dont understand why you guys are you worrying and talking so much about two useless GM traits like HGH and AA instead of beeing happy for the comeing back of our Orbital Strike’s super animation !!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Orbital-Strike-1/5686800

The animation doesn’t have any impact on our incoming/outgoing DPS. This Nerf does both.

Adaptive Armor was def over performing. HGH though? Not even close. I need an explanation on this one. There are classes out there with singular traits that are outperforming entire HGH _builds_now.

Well aint that a kick in the teeth… Those were our two most important traits….
They say dd ele got nerfed…. we got decimated….
I wouldn’t even be salty about this if we had some other options, but the fact is that most of our GM traits still blow. At least give us some options.

Ricky Rouse.1583:

HGH Now grants only 15s of might instead of 20

Adaptive Armor grants 60 toughness per stack, instead of 100 (Now the exact same as Corruptor’s Fervor at max stacks)

This really came out of nowhere, is there any reason as to why?

It didn’t really come out of nowhere. These two skills pretty much made engineers the new DD eles in PvP, but no class should be able to tank like a bunker while hitting like a truck.

I love my engi, but this was a fair change.

Honestly I don’t think the problem with HGH was so much the might that it gave, but rather the ridiculous number of skills it reduced cooldowns for, a lot of which stacked with the toolbelt cooldown reductions the Tools line brought. I would have liked to see a lot of those CD reductions moved into other traits, like all the elixir gun reductions, and maybe something done to stop HGH+Tools from reducing elixir toss CDs by so kitten much, instead of the flat might nerf.

The Adaptive Armor nerf was definitely justified though.

Watching scrappers run around with self made 20-25 stacks of might for upwards of 30s without having to anything to get it…

vespers.1759:

Watching scrappers run around with self made 20-25 stacks of might for upwards of 30s without having to anything to get it…

Maybe because they were running a might focused build^^? HGH JUGG MASS ?

Do not misunderstand me …i’m agree with the HGH nerf ….(not that much with AA…should be 70/80 × 5 toughens imho or 3 total stack of 100 ) ….but the example you made is not a valid reason to justify the nerf.

What ‘s make me sad is that with a bug list bigger than all other classes togheter …they patch and puts 2 nerfs (justyfied) but not even ONE bug fix or change to the many new scrapper’s undertuned skills…

Come on we got only one BWE for testing….i love this Elite ,i found it amazeing and fun to play…but it needs some love NOW…the Expansion is live….the game is awsome…WE know YOU love the Druid but now is time to give an hug to his little Brother….the Scrapper.

Hahahahah thx for nerfing engis i really love it, i would also change condition to 12% instead of 20% which is very OP just an idea

I understand why both of these traits were nerfed. I don’t have a problem with either of them.

If it’s a problem in PvP why not split the skill :/

Phineas Poe.3018:

I understand why both of these traits were nerfed. I don’t have a problem with either of them.

PvP tears and ANet’s unwillingness to split skills.

Is it so bad to for once be a tanky engie than doesnt hit like i have straw as a weapon? I understand nerfing it to a degree, but 60? It might as well not even be a grandmaster anymore.

I finally JUST settled on a build and now I have to find something else. hgh i didnt care too much about but man…AA didnt need that bad of a nerf imo

HGH nerf is fine, kind of surprised they didn’t half the stacks. the nerf was deserved I feel.

AA nerf is a bummer, but I’ve been using hammer traits so it doesn’t effect my build at all. can still get 25 might with those traits too.

Not shocked Adaptive Armor was toned down, it was dominating the other Grandmasters in terms of usefulness.

It still does but that’s now because gyros are still unreliable and mostly useless and the extra 10% damage and stab from Perfectly balanced is a drop in the bucket when you consider how much more sustain AA gives.

Holesale.2640:

Not shocked Adaptive Armor was toned down, it was dominating the other Grandmasters in terms of usefulness.

It still does but that’s now because gyros are still unreliable and mostly useless and the extra 10% damage and stab from Perfectly balanced is a drop in the bucket when you consider how much more sustain AA gives.

If one GM is massively outshining the others, shouldn’t they be looked at first?

oh another nerf… well of course what else.. forgot thats the engi way. Atleast leave us some nice things….ugh.

Hgh might down to 23 sec from 30, and 200 less toughness. Oh my god I cant play now #blameanet

Rly?

We need to be tanky to be able to hammer an enemies efficiently.
And now you take away GM tanking trait becus some stupid whinner dont want to l2p whinning engie is hard to kill in melee

People with half of they brain will be able to kite an engies

Adaptive is high risk Gm make it worth something or it will end up there and no one use it

These changes are more than fine. HgH and Adaptive Armor are still godly.

Edit: That’s how you know they were too good.

AA nerf is ok , i mean its only 200 toughness that means about 5% damage reduction .

Yeah worst elite spec function in the whole game, worst Utility skill with really stupid AI and now the next step in Anets great journey to destroy the engi well done Anet.

AA was needed badly in terms of frontlining in WvW .

Nubu.6148:

AA nerf is ok , i mean its only 200 toughness that means about 5% damage reduction .

That is not accurate in the least. When in gear with no toughness on it, it is very significantly higher damage reduction percentage.

Just tested HgH & adaptive armor out:

I still cap might on 25 stacks (for the entire cd of my elixirs), and 200 less toughness doesn’t do a dent in my armor.

For those who say that adaptive armor was meant for squishies to toughen up: you’re not supposed to take hits as a squishy, you want to do everything to avoid them. Besides, your armor rating would have still been abysmal, so for marauder /sinister / zerker builds I’d take reserve salvo or perfectly weighted naturally anyways.
And for the purpose of heavy armored folks, adaptive armor still does its job, especially the -20% condi-dmg part.

So, Why do I don’t care about the HgH nerf?
Because this trait still reduces elixir cd, increases their duration, and the remaining might duration (with hoelbrak runes or similar picks) is still longer than Elixir H, Throw Elixir H & Throw Elixir B. So 6 stacks still get maintained permanently from these 3 skills allone(funfact, even pre-nerf they weren’t better, they just had an increased bridge-time if you forgot to get them on CD). So, now elixir B has a cd of 32 sec with HgH & just a HgH might duration of 22sec. But it also comes with its own might stack that is on a whoopin 54sec duration, meaning that you can stack it twice in the 2nd cycle, still giving you 2 permanent mightstacks from elixir B
So, by picking Elixir H & Elixir B, you achieve 8 permanent mightstacks, and 10 mightstacks for 22sec on a 32sec cd, per cycle.
Add this on top of the idle mightstacks of mass-momentum & juggernaut and you cap on 24-26 mightstacks. And since the engine drops your shortest duration stacks in favor for new ones, you cap on 25 might to all times… Just as pre-nerf.
So, what is a trait that still performs 100% AFTER it got nerfed?
A trait that performs 100%.

Keep in mind that these numbers don’t even consider Mortar #5, elixir S / throw elixir S, & Hidden flask.
There is so much might sources still going on, that it is almost impossible to not have 25 stacks of might to all times… And my build doesn’t even slot EG.
Just slot it instead of elixir B, for even more insane might-uptime. I personally prefer the extra stab from B’s TB, but do whatever you like…

One thing is sure, this nerf does not influence our build-options in the slightest. If anything, it removes brain-afk gameplay where the game forgives you way too much for not using your elixirs in opportune moments.

coglin.1867:

Nubu.6148:

AA nerf is ok , i mean its only 200 toughness that means about 5% damage reduction .

That is not accurate in the least. When in gear with no toughness on it, it is very significantly higher damage reduction percentage.

Yeah sure but as zerker u shouldnt be hit 5 times in short time ^^ .

Repost from the other thread.
Why would you even start a second one oO?

Just tested HgH & adaptive armor out:

I still cap might on 25 stacks (for the entire cd of my elixirs), and 200 less toughness doesn’t do a dent in my armor.

For those who say that adaptive armor was meant for squishies to toughen up: you’re not supposed to take hits as a squishy, you want to do everything to avoid them. Besides, your armor rating would have still been abysmal, so for marauder /sinister / zerker builds I’d take reserve salvo or perfectly weighted naturally anyways.
And for the purpose of heavy armored folks, adaptive armor still does its job, especially the -20% condi-dmg part.

So, Why do I don’t care about the HgH nerf?
Because this trait still reduces elixir cd, increases their duration, and the remaining might duration (with hoelbrak runes or similar picks) is still longer than Elixir H, Throw Elixir H & Throw Elixir B. So 6 stacks still get maintained permanently from these 3 skills allone(funfact, even pre-nerf they weren’t better, they just had an increased bridge-time if you forgot to get them on CD). So, now elixir B has a cd of 32 sec with HgH & just a HgH might duration of 22sec. But it also comes with its own might stack that is on a whoopin 54sec duration, meaning that you can stack it twice in the 2nd cycle, still giving you 2 permanent mightstacks from elixir B
So, by picking Elixir H & Elixir B, you achieve 8 permanent mightstacks, and 10 mightstacks for 22sec on a 32sec cd, per cycle.
Add this on top of the idle mightstacks of mass-momentum & juggernaut and you cap on 24-26 mightstacks. And since the engine drops your shortest duration stacks in favor for new ones, you cap on 25 might to all times… Just as pre-nerf.
So, what is a trait that still performs 100% AFTER it got nerfed?
A trait that performs 100%.

Keep in mind that these numbers don’t even consider Mortar #5, elixir S / throw elixir S, & Hidden flask.
There is so much might sources still going on, that it is almost impossible to not have 25 stacks of might to all times… And my build doesn’t even slot EG.
Just slot it instead of elixir B, for even more insane might-uptime. I personally prefer the extra stab from B’s TB, but do whatever you like…

One thing is sure, this nerf does not influence our build-options in the slightest. If anything, it removes brain-afk gameplay where the game forgives you way too much for not using your elixirs in opportune moments.

lol what squishy build why pick hammer
When you can nuke at range by using rifle and nades lol why even pick scrapper

Toolband gear shield is way better

I don’t mind either. It’s still 300 Toughness stacked and -20% condition dmg perma. That’s huge.

HGH? Don’t mind.

It seems people aren’t realizing that now Adaptive Armor has the same output of Corrupter’s Fervor, while being more punishing than that trait. Since our version requires us to take damage, while corrupter’s fervor triggers on inflicting conditions (and necro do inflict a ton of them, of course – so they even get multiple stacks by a single attack, eventually maxing all of them in few seconds).

I don’t see how it can be fine now.

Regarding HGH, i still think it is completely unwarranted. Elixir builds already have the innate disadvantage of using up slots on a class that has to use those same slots to get weapons, with the only overlap of elixir gun. Making the functionality of HGH worse just means traited elixirs are even less useful than before. A good amount of might stacks isn’t much good if all you have to use those stacks with are autoattacks, especially if we’re talking of our main weapon ones’.
And even if we were talking of juggernaut/mass momentum flamethrower….well…that’s still flame jet that we’re talking about…

Manuhell.2759:

It seems people aren’t realizing that now Adaptive Armor has the same output of Corrupter’s Fervor, while being more punishing than that trait. Since our version requires us to take damage, while corrupter’s fervor triggers on inflicting conditions (and necro do inflict a ton of them, of course – so they even get multiple stacks by a single attack, eventually maxing all of them in few seconds).

I don’t see how it can be fine now.

Regarding HGH, i still think it is completely unwarranted. Elixir builds already have the innate disadvantage of using up slots on a class that has to use those same slots to get weapons, with the only overlap of elixir gun. Making the functionality of HGH worse just means traited elixirs are even less useful than before. A good amount of might stacks isn’t much good if all you have to use those stacks with are autoattacks, especially if we’re talking of our main weapon ones’.
And even if we were talking of juggernaut/mass momentum flamethrower….well…that’s still flame jet that we’re talking about…

Mortar, FT, Hammer.
Doesn’t take more weaponsets for scrapper to be cd-efficient.
And that still leaves slots for Elixir H + Elixir B + a utility of your choice (f.e. nades, slickshoes, EG, a.s.o.)

dd ele take AGES to nerf/balance it… and engi got this huge nerf to aa (40!!!!!! percent) 1 week after hot release. Engi as frontline WvW NEED this toughness.
And that isnt enough, we also got that HGH nerf!!!! WTF
Srsly anet?

Arantheal.7396:

Mortar, FT, Hammer.
Doesn’t take more weaponsets for scrapper to be cd-efficient.
And that still leaves slots for Elixir H + Elixir B + a utility of your choice (f.e. nades, slickshoes, EG, a.s.o.)

Except that mortar is primarly a support weapon. Whose output is even severely cut off without its grandmaster trait, and such a build can’t have it (hgh, juggernaut, scrapper line). Might won’t help much with it, aside from the autoattacks.
Same for the flamethrower itself, i should say. The only skill you could reliably use there is flame blast, especially given that the hammer itself is purely a direct damage weapon. So it wouldn’t make sense to use condition-related stats with it, making skills like napalm or the toolbelt itself relatively mediocre, even considering the might stacks. And its other skills are just situational, so you won’t just use them off-cooldown. Gotta wait for the right moment.
It leaves us with the elixirs, some of which are still situational – you won’t toss elixir b at random, gotta use it when stability is needed. Same for elixir h itself – you need it for healing after all, it isn’t like you can just spam it. You can do it to gain might uptime, but then we should take count of the opportunity costs involved.
And whatever non-elixir, non elixir gun utility that will end on the last slot won’t even be traited, so…

It may be cd-efficent, but it doesn’t mean it is actually efficent.

Now all that’s left is to add an internal cooldown to Expert Examination and scrapper won’t be worth taking at all for pve. Maybe then they’ll start over and give engi a real elite spec. #ScrapTheScrapper