Guild Wars 2

XelNigma.6315:

I don’t like that the rifle turret is losing the bleed for vulnerability. I’m a power build and I find vulnerability worthless.
The bleeds would deal way more damage than vulnerability can.

I don’t know what power build you are running but, if you are going with an SD rifle build and using Tool kit – Goggles – Rifle turret for utilities, then goggles toolbet skill + overcharged turret will apply 18 stacks of vulnerability at once that, coupled with the occasional vulnerability on crit from traits, would lead to a 20% damage increase on your target. Do you really dislike it?

Like, lay down rifle turret and immediately overcharge it (like you do with healing turret for the fast double heal), pick it up and unload your SD burst. That’s an use I can see for it.

Also, if the rifle turret kept its bleeding, how much time would you intend to keep your target alive in order to make those 48dmg bleeds any useful?

I actually see it as a buff to power builds and it turns rifle turret in a fully physical turret (rather than mixed physical dmg + bleeds).

That vulnerability instead of bleed is great change imo.

Rozbuska.5263:

That vulnerability instead of bleed is great change imo.

To clarify things, its 1 stack of vulnerability that lasts 8 second per shot and the rate of fire for rifle turret overcharge is 1 per second over a period of 10 seconds. That averages out to an increase in physical damage by 3.6% for a span 15 seconds from activation of overcharge to the end of vulnerability duration. Whereas the current rifle turret does 1 stack of bleed that lasts 3 seconds per shot, which adds up to around 1800 damage for non-condition build or 2700 damage for condition build by end of the overcharge.

In order to benefit from the changes, you would have to have a damage output of above 200k a minute.

Adrian.3689:

Rozbuska.5263:

That vulnerability instead of bleed is great change imo.

To clarify things, its 1 stack of vulnerability that lasts 8 second per shot and the rate of fire for rifle turret overcharge is 1 per second over a period of 10 seconds. That averages out to an increase in physical damage by 3.6% for a span 15 seconds from activation of overcharge to the end of vulnerability duration. Whereas the current rifle turret does 1 stack of bleed that lasts 3 seconds per shot, which adds up to around 1800 damage for non-condition build or 2700 damage for condition build by end of the overcharge.

In order to benefit from the changes, you would have to have a damage output of above 200k a minute.

Except vulnerability helps EVERY other player attacking that target, making it nearly impossible to really calculate its effectiveness. Unless you are only concerned with the changes for solo play in which case you probably won’t need the full bleed OR vulnerability duration so it’s kind of a moot point…

Sometimes just doing the math doesn’t mean much. You need to interpret the change in the context of actually playing the game.

Adamantium.3682:

Adrian.3689:

Rozbuska.5263:

That vulnerability instead of bleed is great change imo.

To clarify things, its 1 stack of vulnerability that lasts 8 second per shot and the rate of fire for rifle turret overcharge is 1 per second over a period of 10 seconds. That averages out to an increase in physical damage by 3.6% for a span 15 seconds from activation of overcharge to the end of vulnerability duration. Whereas the current rifle turret does 1 stack of bleed that lasts 3 seconds per shot, which adds up to around 1800 damage for non-condition build or 2700 damage for condition build by end of the overcharge.

In order to benefit from the changes, you would have to have a damage output of above 200k a minute.

Except vulnerability helps EVERY other player attacking that target, making it nearly impossible to really calculate its effectiveness. Unless you are only concerned with the changes for solo play in which case you probably won’t need the full bleed OR vulnerability duration so it’s kind of a moot point…

Sometimes just doing the math doesn’t mean much. You need to interpret the change in the context of actually playing the game.

And that depends on if we are speaking of spvp, wvw or pve.

But i find it sad to see the bleeding go, you specced condition damage anyways with turrets (as they actually scale with it) so the additional bleeding with a main hand pistol and burn from flame/rocket turret made it possible to actually pressure lone cappers.

miriforst.1290:

Adamantium.3682:

Adrian.3689:

Rozbuska.5263:

That vulnerability instead of bleed is great change imo.

To clarify things, its 1 stack of vulnerability that lasts 8 second per shot and the rate of fire for rifle turret overcharge is 1 per second over a period of 10 seconds. That averages out to an increase in physical damage by 3.6% for a span 15 seconds from activation of overcharge to the end of vulnerability duration. Whereas the current rifle turret does 1 stack of bleed that lasts 3 seconds per shot, which adds up to around 1800 damage for non-condition build or 2700 damage for condition build by end of the overcharge.

In order to benefit from the changes, you would have to have a damage output of above 200k a minute.

Except vulnerability helps EVERY other player attacking that target, making it nearly impossible to really calculate its effectiveness. Unless you are only concerned with the changes for solo play in which case you probably won’t need the full bleed OR vulnerability duration so it’s kind of a moot point…

Sometimes just doing the math doesn’t mean much. You need to interpret the change in the context of actually playing the game.

And that depends on if we are speaking of pvp, wvw or spvp.

But i find it sad to see the bleeding go, you specced condition damage anyways with turrets (as they actually scale with it) so the additional bleeding with a main hand pistol and burn from flame/rocket turret made it possible to actually pressure lone cappers.

I agree in their current state turrets are better in condition builds, and the bleed fits better into that.

From wiki.guildwars2.com:

Boons and conditions applied by turrets use the character’s attributes. Direct damage inflicted to and by turrets is not affected by the owner’s stats.

Maybe fix that and it will be more viable on power build, probably it will require some time.

Atamaz.4195:

From wiki.guildwars2.com:

Boons and conditions applied by turrets use the character’s attributes. Direct damage inflicted to and by turrets is not affected by the owner’s stats.

Maybe fix that and it will be more viable on power build, probably it will require some time.

Adding that would also allow builds that’ve sunk 60 trait points into Turret use to have an inkling of intuitiveness to their builds – and for anyone who thinks that wouldn’t make a difference, I’ve a demonstration of the effect gear has in mind.

Go to your build editor of choice, equip an Engineer with a Rifle.
Check the damage of Hip Shot. Write it down. I’ve got 302 with an Exotic Cleric Rifle (chosen because it’s what I’ll use in the final thing); 251 is what the builder says for a rifle with no stats.

Then set up a 20/0/30/0/10 trait spread, choosing any available Turret traits. Check the damage and write it down. I get 374 when I do this, 314 with the no-stat rifle.
This is where Turrets stop – well, really, this is all the scaling they do, period, just Trait points; it’s odd that they do scale to Traits, but it’s at least some kind of scaling.

Now set the build up with full Cleric’s gear and trinkets, all Exotic, no Ascended, and runes focusing on increasing Healing Power (one of each of the six).
Check the damage again. My readout’s 533.

Through the power of ‘scales with gear,’ Hip Shot’s damage almost doubled. Personally, I certainly wouldn’t complain if they reduced the base numbers on turrets to allow them to scale with Power – it’d definitely streamline builds, and as long as the end result of a proper Turret build after the change was better than the end result of the “Traits for this, armor for that” tripe we’re using now, it’d certainly be an improvement.

For those who think this would be unbalancing: It’s my belief that a Turreteer, with three damage-focused turrets, should be able to match the Grenade Kit in terms of damage. As far as I’m aware, this is simply not the case, even with all three Turrets firing on one enemy.

Mind you recall, before you try to say that the very idea’s OP, that I’m saying ‘Three damage-focused Turrets and the Engineer should be able to deal as much damage as the Grenade Kit,’ not ‘Any given Turret should be able to.’ That would be OP.
Also, keep in mind the immobility and long cooldowns of Turrets – optimum damage output would only occur in…assuming Rifle, Flame and Rocket Turrets, all placed side-by-side, a 450 radius of the Flame Turret.

ellesee.8297:

Iarkrad.8415:

A step in the right direction.
My response?
Nerfhammer incoming

i fear for the day the devs finally give in to the whiners and they buff our class only to nerf it to useless status the next week.

me too they finally have been listening to all of my concerns, now they just have to fix turrets really.

It’s been a whole year of waiting but it’s finally coming to a close hopefully they won’t listen to the whiners I agree!

Adamantium.3682:

Adrian.3689:

Rozbuska.5263:

That vulnerability instead of bleed is great change imo.

To clarify things, its 1 stack of vulnerability that lasts 8 second per shot and the rate of fire for rifle turret overcharge is 1 per second over a period of 10 seconds. That averages out to an increase in physical damage by 3.6% for a span 15 seconds from activation of overcharge to the end of vulnerability duration. Whereas the current rifle turret does 1 stack of bleed that lasts 3 seconds per shot, which adds up to around 1800 damage for non-condition build or 2700 damage for condition build by end of the overcharge.

In order to benefit from the changes, you would have to have a damage output of above 200k a minute.

Except vulnerability helps EVERY other player attacking that target, making it nearly impossible to really calculate its effectiveness. Unless you are only concerned with the changes for solo play in which case you probably won’t need the full bleed OR vulnerability duration so it’s kind of a moot point…

Sometimes just doing the math doesn’t mean much. You need to interpret the change in the context of actually playing the game.

Rifle turret is useless in every other situation aside from solo play in WvW. You have to consider the fact that it only has a 7k health pool. It gets obliterated within seconds, even in small group battle and pve boss fights. For most condition engineers that go solo play, those bleed stacks from overcharge deal a significant amount of damage to single targets.

It is you who has not put much thought into the change in context to how rifle turret is efficiently used.

“And finally, Engineer turrets will attack the Engineer’s target. They still take time to rotate to face the target, and they still have their respective cooldowns when firing. But this means the Engineer can focus damage on a single target by using their turrets.”

Does this mean I can’t place turrets on a spawn event (5min pre-event for fire ele -example) and turrets hit targets as they spawn so I can get credit before the mob dies before I can target them?

Adrian.3689:

Rozbuska.5263:

That vulnerability instead of bleed is great change imo.

To clarify things, its 1 stack of vulnerability that lasts 8 second per shot and the rate of fire for rifle turret overcharge is 1 per second over a period of 10 seconds. That averages out to an increase in physical damage by 3.6% for a span 15 seconds from activation of overcharge to the end of vulnerability duration. Whereas the current rifle turret does 1 stack of bleed that lasts 3 seconds per shot, which adds up to around 1800 damage for non-condition build or 2700 damage for condition build by end of the overcharge.

In order to benefit from the changes, you would have to have a damage output of above 200k a minute.

Thank you, Yes. Exactly this.
I find this change is much like the ranger’s rapid fire that also adds one vulnerability per shot. and despite it being a rapid attack the short duration and slow application of it makes it worthless to me.
Skills like our goggles that apply 10 instantly, that is useful. But you spread the application over a few seconds and its crap.

At the moment, the only buff I would love to see is an auto attack for the grenade kit. More health for turrets or being able to have the turrets rocket themselves to you would be cool too, but I think that goes against Anet’s views of what the turrets should do.

My question for anet is this. Would it have been too op to just leave the bleed as is and just add on the vulnerability?

Hebee.8460:

“And finally, Engineer turrets will attack the Engineer’s target. They still take time to rotate to face the target, and they still have their respective cooldowns when firing. But this means the Engineer can focus damage on a single target by using their turrets.”

Does this mean I can’t place turrets on a spawn event (5min pre-event for fire ele -example) and turrets hit targets as they spawn so I can get credit before the mob dies before I can target them?

We’ll have to test it, of course, but it sounds like turrets will just prioritize your target when possible. It’s not that they’ll stop shooting at anything unless you have it targeted (or at least, it shouldn’t be based on the devs’ description of the change).

I’ll be testing the targeting system before I join the rally – just on mobs, probably, but I figure that should be enough to get a basic idea of how it works.

Also, I’m hoping that the swap of Bleed for Vulnerability is a herald of making Turrets scale to more stats; after all, it’s taking away a Condition Damage note for a general support effect.

no balance changes until october? really?

kitten that -.- immah play warrior

RaynStargaze.6510:

no balance changes until october? really?

kitten that -.- immah play warrior

I was disappointed in this patch as well. Luckly I have several other games I can play for the next month while I wait on another patch that will no doubt also disappoint.

I might now dissapoint you but the following changes:

All duration stacking boons(Aegis, Fury, protection, Regeneration, Retaliation, Swiftness, and Vigor) and conditions(Blind, Burning, Chilled, Cripple, immobilze(now stacks duration), and Poison) now stack to a maximum of 5 times.

Are a pretty hard nerf to condition spec engineers because most conditions have a very short duration, poision dart volley, fumigate, our burns etc will all be hard hit by it.

The stability on elixir b is worth nothing, why? because its no stunbreake, if you ate a skull crack and use a stunbreak there will be no time to apply this stability before the next stun hits you so this elixir b changes wont change alot. It has casttime and traveltime, you will only be able to apply this elixir before the fight starts.

The only real buff i see here is for the bombs and dammmit was about time for that.
180-radius traited is a joke, a pretty bad one. Bombs without forceful explosives are complete useless its closer then melee range.. I love playing with bombs but with the close range and the very high casttime its more then difficult to use them offensive in wvw roaming, stability would have been awesome for that but sadly we have none and elixir b isnt goingt to help either, you get 125539 stuns, dazes and whatever before the elixir is in the air…

Kontrolle.3514:

I might now dissapoint you but the following changes:

All duration stacking boons(Aegis, Fury, protection, Regeneration, Retaliation, Swiftness, and Vigor) and conditions(Blind, Burning, Chilled, Cripple, immobilze(now stacks duration), and Poison) now stack to a maximum of 5 times.

Are a pretty hard nerf to condition spec engineers because most conditions have a very short duration, poision dart volley, fumigate, our burns etc will all be hard hit by it.

The stability on elixir b is worth nothing, why? because its no stunbreake, if you ate a skull crack and use a stunbreak there will be no time to apply this stability before the next stun hits you so this elixir b changes wont change alot. It has casttime and traveltime, you will only be able to apply this elixir before the fight starts.

The only real buff i see here is for the bombs and dammmit was about time for that.
180-radius traited is a joke, a pretty bad one. Bombs without forceful explosives are complete useless its closer then melee range.. I love playing with bombs but with the close range and the very high casttime its more then difficult to use them offensive in wvw roaming, stability would have been awesome for that but sadly we have none and elixir b isnt goingt to help either, you get 125539 stuns, dazes and whatever before the elixir is in the air…

While your concerns are valid, I think that you’re not giving the positives any credit here.

I would be very surprised if anyone notices a significant change to their gameplay with the boon/condition duration stacking cap. For example, you can put 5 different burns on your target. Once the first one runs out, you can then put another one on. I don’t see this really affecting anyone’s ability to keep burning on a target if that’s what you really want to do.

We’ll really have to know how long the Stability from Toss B is before we comment on how useful it is, but assuming it’s something significant like 10s that’s very useful! Not all Stability skills also break stuns anyways so that’s sort of a flawed argument, it’s largely a proactive boon. Using your example of fighting a stun locking Warrior, you would want to use Stability as you start the fight. Best case scenario is they waste all their stuns while your Stability is up. Worst case scenario they wait until it’s Stability is over to stun you, but that being the strength of their build you’ve gone 10s of not being stun locked, tilting the fight heavily in your favor.

Again, I agree with your concerns. We may have to be a little more mindful about stacking burns and other conditions. Make sure we’re only using the long duration when possible. We may have to be more proactive with Toss B instead of just using it every time it’s off cooldown. This doesn’t mean these can’t be very positive changes.

^and don’t forget someone running elixir S and elixir B pretty much has 3 guaranteed stomps. thats going to be pretty fun. Id still prefer toss H to have stability tho, seems like a weird choice having it on B now that I think of it.

Maskaganda.2043:

^and don’t forget someone running elixir S and elixir B pretty much has 3 guaranteed stomps. thats going to be pretty fun. Id still prefer toss H to have stability tho, seems like a weird choice having it on B now that I think of it.

Im glad its going to be added. But it does feel Elixir B is kind of the SUPER go to elixir now. You get might, swiftness, retaliation and fury. On a fairly low cooldown, which is super helpful with things like HGH and cleansing formula.
And on the toss gives Stability and either might/swiftness/retaliation/fury.

Think i might replace rocketboots with Elixir S. Stealth is just such a powerful mechanic, both offensively and defensively.

I agree it makes more sense on Toss H, I feel that elixir needs something to be more desirable outside of HGH builds when compared to the other healing options.

Beggars can’t be choosers though, I’ll take it on B

Aberrant.6749:

MI stealths up to 10, the toss would only do 5. MI also has a 1,200 radius

In about all situation, it would result in the exact same thing (due to the 5 men team limit), with 33% less CD and less cast time. Only situation where MI would be better than Toss Elixir S is WvW zerg battle, but then Veil is better than MI anyway.
So yes, I do fear a return nerfbat

I just hope the increased Range in Bombs doesn’t come with a nerf of Damage or increased Cooldowns. I can see that coming, even if it ’s uncalled for and other Kits require buffs in terms of Power Builds way more than Bombs that would leave only Toolkit and Rifle (+Static Discharge) for a Power Build viable.

Considering then Bombkit, Grenade, FT, EG and Pistol are scaling really badly with Power then – Hm. Those are not so well of latetly even when fully traited for Power aside from Support, Hybrid or Condition Damage.

The single thing it would do is reduce the viable builds even more. Leaving important balance changes aside. Buffing / Fixing / Reworking Direct-Damage dealing skills (Like the targeting and usability at of Pistol#2, #4, Grenades and Mortar) should be the top priority.

We already have plenty of support at hand aside from Stability even if Random or difficult to access. That said, if no nerf for Power-Builds are incoming in return it ’s fine.

i wonder what is the radius when traited with Forceful Explosives right now

it looks like 240 radius right now, so… is that a buff ?

Kontrolle.3514:

The stability on elixir b is worth nothing, why? because its no stunbreake, if you ate a skull crack and use a stunbreak there will be no time to apply this stability before the next stun hits you so this elixir b changes wont change alot. It has casttime and traveltime, you will only be able to apply this elixir before the fight starts.
.

Don’t hit stun break after the first stun of a Warrior unless you see him pull out the Greatsword. No one teaches you that but I’m telling you now. Don’t do it.

FishAnna.9081:

i wonder what is the radius when traited with Forceful Explosives right now

it looks like 240 radius right now, so… is that a buff ?

bomb: 120 (180)
fire bomb: 120 (180)
concussion bomb: 180 (270)
smoke bomb: 180 (270)
glue bomb: 240 (360)
(Forceful Explosives)

digiowl.9620:

FishAnna.9081:

i wonder what is the radius when traited with Forceful Explosives right now

it looks like 240 radius right now, so… is that a buff ?

bomb: 120 (180)
fire bomb: 120 (180)
concussion bomb: 180 (270)
smoke bomb: 180 (270)
glue bomb: 240 (360)
(Forceful Explosives)

In other words, a slight nerf to Bob and glue bomb but a nice buff to everything else.

NevirSayDie.6235:

digiowl.9620:

FishAnna.9081:

i wonder what is the radius when traited with Forceful Explosives right now

it looks like 240 radius right now, so… is that a buff ?

bomb: 120 (180)
fire bomb: 120 (180)
concussion bomb: 180 (270)
smoke bomb: 180 (270)
glue bomb: 240 (360)
(Forceful Explosives)

In other words, a slight nerf to Bob and glue bomb but a nice buff to everything else.

Think about it,

“Bomb Kit – Bomb: Base radius increased from 120 to 180. Radius when traited with Forceful Explosives is increased to 240. "

Its a clear buff.

Gabesz.3895:

NevirSayDie.6235:

digiowl.9620:

FishAnna.9081:

i wonder what is the radius when traited with Forceful Explosives right now

it looks like 240 radius right now, so… is that a buff ?

bomb: 120 (180)
fire bomb: 120 (180)
concussion bomb: 180 (270)
smoke bomb: 180 (270)
glue bomb: 240 (360)
(Forceful Explosives)

In other words, a slight nerf to Bob and glue bomb but a nice buff to everything else.

Think about it,

“Bomb Kit – Bomb: Base radius increased from 120 to 180. Radius when traited with Forceful Explosives is increased to 240. "

Its a clear buff.

Exactly, although the BoB and glue bomb will be reduced slightly. For bomb 1 and 2 it’s quite a large buff.

the major change is that it make Forceful Explosions optional rather than a must have for bomb kit usage. This then frees up 10 trait points that can be used elsewhere.

Gabesz.3895:

NevirSayDie.6235:

digiowl.9620:

FishAnna.9081:

i wonder what is the radius when traited with Forceful Explosives right now

it looks like 240 radius right now, so… is that a buff ?

bomb: 120 (180)
fire bomb: 120 (180)
concussion bomb: 180 (270)
smoke bomb: 180 (270)
glue bomb: 240 (360)
(Forceful Explosives)

In other words, a slight nerf to Bob and glue bomb but a nice buff to everything else.

Think about it,

“Bomb Kit – Bomb: Base radius increased from 120 to 180. Radius when traited with Forceful Explosives is increased to 240. "

Its a clear buff.

Bumb up this thread, where is the increased radius in de released patchnotes?
Got this cancelled? Plz no, just no…..

Kontrolle.3514:

Gabesz.3895:

NevirSayDie.6235:

digiowl.9620:

FishAnna.9081:

i wonder what is the radius when traited with Forceful Explosives right now

it looks like 240 radius right now, so… is that a buff ?

bomb: 120 (180)
fire bomb: 120 (180)
concussion bomb: 180 (270)
smoke bomb: 180 (270)
glue bomb: 240 (360)
(Forceful Explosives)

In other words, a slight nerf to Bob and glue bomb but a nice buff to everything else.

Think about it,

“Bomb Kit – Bomb: Base radius increased from 120 to 180. Radius when traited with Forceful Explosives is increased to 240. "

Its a clear buff.

Bumb up this thread, where is the increased radius in de released patchnotes?
Got this cancelled? Plz no, just no…..

Note the date, if the notes hold up (and a recent “leak” over in the preview thread seems to suggest so) they will land October 15.

Hmm. Had not realized Stability will be on B. I normally use that underwater with Grenade Kit (only time I use the kit). How well does tossing an elixir work underwater?

Stealth on S though sounds interesting. Need to see the duration before I’m willing to consider it in my ‘misc’ utility slot.

BTW, would love turrets to scale with some kind of sanity. I had not realized they’re only scaling to traits, wow.

Sungak Alkandenes.1369:

BTW, would love turrets to scale with some kind of sanity. I had not realized they’re only scaling to traits, wow.

Turns out they’ve stopped scaling to Traits. Used to be, ranks in Explosives traitline would improve direct damage, but they’ve removed that functionality…so now they only scale to Condition, Boon, and Healing stats. Period.

Here’s hoping this changes, because this is absolutely stupid.